The greatest music biz advice I ever recieved

[3shiftgtr]

I was whining about my current situation at a gig to legendary Nashville bass player Kyle Tullis.

Kyle is deceased, but in his 40 years as a touring pro, he played with EVERY act out of Nashville that made it to the top: Hank Jr., Lorrie Morgan, Martina McBride, Dolly Parton, Glen Campbell, Steve Wariner, and Conway Twitty just to name a few. Non country acts like Donna Summer, Ray Charles and Sam Cooke used his services. Were talking a cat who was a jobber of the highest order. For 40 years! At his funeral in Nashville, EVERY country artist you could think of was there.

Anyway...I was bitching away. He just listened and then said "Quit bitching. Work harder."

Um, what? I'm doing so and so and such and such and blah blah blah. "Yeah, whatever. You aren't working hard enough."

Well, what the hell else can I do? I'm busting my tail, Kyle. Shoot, you know the drill. "Yeah I do. And I'm telling your that you are not working hard enough. You say one of your heroes is Pat Metheny, right? Well, when he made the decision to go solo full time, he toured and recorded so non stop that for 10 years he did not have a home. NON STOP 24-7 for 10 years. Quit your bitching and work harder." (NOTE: I don't know if this is true or not)

Yeah, well I ain't no Pat Metheny. Allan Holdsworth maybe, but not Pat. Ha Ha. But obviously what I'm doing isn't working as well as I'd like. What do I need to change? "I don't know. That is for you to decide. That is part of the work. What part of this aren't you getting? WORK HARDER!"

Thanks Kyle. RIP

[sventvkg]

Cut and Dry and Brutally honest!! SAGE advice!

[JilaX^]

Sounds like quite the character

Great piece of advice, right there.
If you want to make it, without "Getting a break" early on, that's the way to do it, I suppose.

[RupertB]

Great advice.

Lots of talented folks are after a limited amount of work. Willingness to work hard is the common denominator.

Either that or buy your Music Biz Lotto ticket.

[Lee Flier]

Indeed! I think there's a real lack of understanding by most people about just HOW hard one needs to work to be a successful musician.

One of my few real heroes in music is Richard Thompson. He's in his 60s now, and he STILL practices 8 hours a day. And he'll be happy to tell you that you're a lazy sod if you don't. And guess what? He's still inspired and vital and packing houses at his age - and can still play rings around most 20 year olds.

[jeff42]

when I was about 19 years old an older wiser musician told me it's better to be a big regional band than an unknown national band. the pay is way better and you can sleep in your own bed most nights.

take it for what it's worth. from what I have seen I tend to agree with this now... I didn't then, but I do now.

[senor decipher]

I had a music professor in college, Dennis Bell, who did jazzy piano music with his wife for years. He was a talent manager in the 80's and later did some arranging, his big one was U2's rattle and hum. He told me that when offered a gig, any gig, to say "yes". "Even if you can't just say yes. Play to whoever will have you. You can't choose your fans."

[Tele-vania65000]

Of course working harder is only going to matter if the talent is there to begin with.

I've known players who did nothing but practice and they still were not very good.

Biology is a cruel mistress. Or something.

[Lee Flier]

Originally Posted by Tele-vania65000

Of course working harder is only going to matter if the talent is there to begin with.

I've known players who did nothing but practice and they still were not very good.

Yeah, I have too, but not too many. MOST people will get better if they are determined. I've seen a lot more people with "natural talent" who lack a good work ethic than the reverse.

[Lee Knight]

Working hard. It's the key to everything. Of course that assumes you're not working stupid. Your hard work needs to be pointed in the right direction. But that's not so difficult. Have a brain about it.

My kid tuned in a Lil' Wayne interview. I'm not a huge fan of most Rapper types, and Lil', as I like to call him, was stoned out of his gourd, but man, he's smart and works hard. One interesting bit of info, he was a straight A student.

During his interview he makes a point I've always agreed with. Paraphrasing, "Man, I never got why everybody said school was hard. Hard? It ain't hard. All the answers... they give 'em to you in a book! How hard is that? They say, here's the answer, now read it. Now... what's the answer? Hard? I'll tell you what's hard... it's the not knowing the answer part. They don't give you the answer in life. You gotta work your ass off to find it."

Yes you do.

[Janx]

Originally Posted by Tele-vania65000

Of course working harder is only going to matter if the talent is there to begin with.

I've known players who did nothing but practice and they still were not very good.

Biology is a cruel mistress. Or something.

I'd have to wonder what they were practicing. It's very easy to practice the same thing over and over again, and not advance your skills. At best, you'd get good at practicing, and at doing what you've practiced.

I would think that to get better, when you practice, you need to review your old stuff, and then work on something new. If you just keep working on your old stuff, you're not learning.

This is why I'm playing with a community college jazz ensemble. They pick what I play. I learn it and play it with them. Forces me to learn stuff, and I can't get in a rut playing the same riffs I learned before.

[babalugats85]

Never thought I might quote lil wayne to my kids but that is great advice.

[Tele-vania65000]

Originally Posted by Lee Flier

Yeah, I have too, but not too many. MOST people will get better if they are determined. I've seen a lot more people with "natural talent" who lack a good work ethic than the reverse.

Agreed.

I am the kind of player you describe--naturally talented, but lazy.

I can not pick up a guitar all week and still sound pretty good at the gig.

I'll never be great though. And I'm okay with that. It's not real high on my list of priorities right now.

[3shiftgtr]

Originally Posted by Tele-vania65000

Of course working harder is only going to matter if the talent is there to begin with.

I've known players who did nothing but practice and they still were not very good.

Biology is a cruel mistress. Or something.

Gotta call a bit of bovine scatology on that....

There is a decent handful of marginally talented players out there right now making good money and riding big buses.

I'll bet you even listen to some of them. I do.

But they worked hard on getting heard and their "thing". Talent not withstanding.

[DLR_41]

WOW, I knew Kyle, I'm very sorry to learn he died! I used to run into him at hewgleys music store in Madison and that one in donelsonville across from McGavock pike. He was an excellent player way back 2+ decades ago! He taught me a few tricks back then.
RIP

[Tele-vania65000]

Originally Posted by 3shiftgtr

Gotta call a bit of bovine scatology on that....

There is a decent handful of marginally talented players out there right now making good money and riding big buses.

I'll bet you even listen to some of them. I do.

But they worked hard on getting heard and their "thing". Talent not withstanding.

I think we are defining "talent" differently.

Anyone who is on a tour bus has at least a decent amount of talent. There's no way they would be there if they didn't.

Now they might not have Brent Mason or Tom Bukovac talent, but there's at least some.

I'm talking about players who have zero natural ability, yet spend all their time practicing because someone told them that if they just tried hard enough they could make it.

It's nonsense.

I knew a guy that would literally spend all day playing blues harmonica. Practicing well into the night as well. He was completely obsessed with it. And he sucked. Even after years and years of this he still sucked.

He had no ear for being in tune. There aint no practicin' your way into that.

Talent and hard work are what will get ya ahead. You can't have one without the other.

It sounds all groovy and cool to say it's as simple as hard work. But biology's unseen hand is always there.

It's not fair, but it's true.

[JDRock]

seems like for every crowd of wannabes, looking and waiting for their big break, theres only a few working their @ss off to attain it.

[Lee Knight]

Originally Posted by Tele-vania65000

He had no ear for being in tune. There aint no practicin' your way into that.

Talent and hard work are what will get ya ahead. You can't have one without the other.

It sounds all groovy and cool to say it's as simple as hard work. But biology's unseen hand is always there.

It's not fair, but it's true.

I'm not sure I understand the meaning of the word "talent". Through, all my life I've been told I am. I never thought I was talented. What does that mean?

I absolutely stopped in my tracks the moment my mom played her first guitar lesson to me when I was 10. Was that "talent"? I almost forcibly took the guitar out of my mom's hands that very second and tried to do what she had just done. To play that lesson. Was that "talent"? I didn't stop. I couldn't stop. I kept going. I was possessed. Sorry mom, no you can't have your guitar back.

Was that "talent"?

I don't believe it was. What set me aside from the blues harp player you mention is I wasn't an idiot. Sorry, but you don't waste your time playing nonsense. You get pragmatic. You think! You assess and adjust. You think!

Talent?

In 8th grade I was accompanying the class during Christmas carols. "Let me find that chord book, Lee." Um... I don't think I need the chord book. "My, you were born with a good ear and talent huh?"

No, I wasn't. I acquired it. Since I was 10. I absorbed everything that entered my ears. And I actively sought out things to put in my ears. Was that "talent"?

When I began playing professionally, since I was "born wit a good ear" I could sing harmonies just fine. But my tone... not so good. Pitch was fine, but the tone.

I studied breath control and tone production. With... a... vengeance. Hey! Guess what?!??! My next band proclaimed me someone who was a natural born singer. Talented.

Then there was the time I was almost fired for playing way ahead of the beat. I spent the next YEAR, all my spare time, playing to a metronome. Playing Louis Belson's book of complex rhythms and rests.

The next band graced me with the title of "natural born groover". Talented.

[Lee Flier]

I know what Tele is saying - there are some people who just genetically don't have the ability to hear whether something is in tune or feel where a beat is, and no amount of practice will make a difference.

But those people are pretty few and far between. A lot of people who think they are tone deaf or rhythm challenged actually CAN learn if they really want to. But some people have to work harder at it than others.

I recently read a fascinating book called Musicophilia that was written by a neurologist. He discusses the effects of music on the brain, the degree to which musical ability is hardwired into us and how that wiring can be undone, and how musicians' brains differ from other people's. It's extremely thought provoking stuff if you're inclined to read it.

But the bottom line is, most humans are naturally musical, but it usually has to be fostered from very early childhood, otherwise you'll have to work much harder to release that latent ability. And of course, most people still have to work hard to be really great. But it's a very small minority who literally have no musical sensibility.

[vanlatte]

Originally Posted by 3shiftgtr

Gotta call a bit of bovine scatology on that....

There is a decent handful of marginally talented players out there right now making good money and riding big buses.

I'll bet you even listen to some of them. I do.

But they worked hard on getting heard and their "thing". Talent not withstanding.

And there are bands like Kings X, with gobs of talent and years slugging it out on the road and hardly anybody has even heard of them.