How artists make money now

[richardmac]

I spent this past week home in bed with a bad case of shingles (still hurts like hell) and got a chance to see the live stream from many sessions at the Future of Music Policy Summit. There was some really good stuff. The quotes from the summit are making their way around the web now, and I saw this interesting quote and wanted to get people's take on it:

" "Old model: get signed or get lost. New model: fan relationships create a value pipeline...(The new artist) revenue pie chart: gigs 35 %, merch 17 %, digital sales 11 %, cds 6 %, royalties 9 %." - Jed Carlson, ReverbNation"

I suspect he's talking about bands that can tour a bit. What do you folks think about this quote?

[Casey]

absolutely. Being a touring musician you meet so many bands who are out there running the roads 300 days a year, making a decent (enough money for hotels, food) living doing it.

[BlueStrat]

Yep. That's why I shut my own band down in 2004 (I recently restarted it with some different goals). There is a blues legend named Lucky Peterson who I was lucky enough (no pun intended) to get to play with for two nights. We were sitting around after the second night and he told me that if I was going to 'make it' in music, I had to hit the road. He said he was on the road about 280-300 days a year.

And I thought to myself, here's a guy who's made about 8 albums, been on national television, has a record deal just about every big time blues legend alive, and is a phenomenal singer, keyboard player and guitar player, yet her he is, driving around the country in an 8 year old minivan pulling a trailer playing the same clubs I am (albeit fort a bit more money) with no end in sight. And that's when it hit me: traveling is the job. Yes, you have to sell merch, play well, and promote, but if you aren't out beating the highway, you won't make it. Ironically, if you do hit the road, you won't make much, either, unless you're in the upper echelon of your genre.

I'll post this vid just to show you how amazing this guy is, and to make the point that if it's like this for guys like him, what chance do we mere mortals have, really?





Not saying it isn't possible, but I think most of us go into it not fully realizing what a truly uphill journey it really is. Then again, maybe if we did, none of us would undertake it at all!

[Casey]

I like to believe many of us do it knowing what's in store. There really is nothing like this sort of life and I wouldn't trade it for a thing.

"I left my girl for a guitar//Now I can play all night long." - The Exit

[BlueStrat]

I like to believe many of us do it knowing what's in store.

I like to believe it too, but when I was pursuing it, I was constantly being surprised, shocked or dismayed at finding things out as I went. Things like how moving up to the 'next level' isn't a quantum leap for most of us, but rather a small increase in the size of our circle,only still having to start al over again at that level. And realizing that there may be 3, or 5, or 15 more of these 'levels' to pass through, each level with it's own set of rules and problems, much like a video game. I was aware of the corruption of some promoters and presenters, but you're still never prepared for how blatant and cruel it sometimes is when you experience it yourself. Seeing promoters at the concert/large festival level get bribed by other bands' management, and the same promoters expecting it from us, and so on. Having other bands spread false rumors about your band to try to keep you from getting booked (One band had told a promoter that I had started banging heroin and drinking and had become unreliable, even though I've been clean and sober for 31 years). One of my friends signed to Blind Pig Records being assured he had rights to production oversight only to have his record remixed after he was gone back out on the road (they made his blues record sound like a pop album), and then finding out his publishing agreement had been changed, and that he was getting no tour support. He signed an exclusive with a big talent agency but was later told that they couldn't book him much because no one knew who he was, and they had to concentrate on their bread and butter acts.

I could go on and on, but the point is, the higher you go in the business, the more you find out 1) how far it really is to get where you want to be, and 2) how absolutely corrupt the business end of it can be, and no one can fully prepare for that or know what they're getting into until they do it, IMO.

[richardmac]

Wow - that guy smokes. I saw Jimmy McGriff years ago - he was amazing too and put on a really entertaining show. Saw him at a jazz festival along with David Sanborn. David Sanborn played scales as fast as he possibly could, which bored me to tears. Top notch band, though.

HC is an interesting place. Far too much emphasis is placed here on either how you can make it or how you can never make it. We talk about it way too much. The real reality to music is, are you having fun? If you are touring 300 days a year, do you love it? Because if you do, keep doing it! Enjoy what you do. One day you won't love it any more, and at that point, find something else to do. If you don't love it, don't do it. Because the doubters are right - it's not sustainable as a career, you're going to end up doing something else for a living. But that's true of most of us - the average person changes careers a lot.

I love writing and recording music, and I love performing it to an audience. It's fun. That's why I do it. I am also very very interested in the business side of it from a hobby standpoint. I like talking about microphone techniques, how to sell CD's at gigs, how to promote yourself, the future of the music biz, all that stuff. It's all interesting. I know that hobbyist musicians can make money, even if it's just a small amount.

I think even hobbyists should be serious about what they do, which includes marketing and advertising and all that jazz. If you are playing a gig once a month to 20 people, then the next step is to play to 50 people. That sort of thing. What interests me about the Jed Carlson quote is how musicians who are at the next level up from me are making money. Maybe some strategies the semi-pros use can work for amateurs.

[flatfinger]

As far as all that pounding the pavement goes ; you might end up with more $$$ if you just learn to drive a Semi !!!!!!!! I think that's what allot of the allure of the web is now ( combined w/ all the whiz bang recording softwares ) ..... Just throw your stuff up on youtuba , and you'll be discoverd ( or at least you can make a "middle Class living ) . MIddle class ?? The way things a re going , there won't be a middle class to buy these ...


from you !!!!.


I wanna be Steely Dan !!!!!!!



The solution to "monetization" has'nt really been worked out yet as far as I can tell.

[richardmac]

LOL - you'd be driving around the country meeting interesting people either way, right?

It is totally possible to be an artist who does no gigs and releases music totally online and gains a following. Totally possible. You just won't make any money. Some artists won't care - they'll do it anyway because they're doing it for fun. Do they hurt things for the rest of us? Doesn't matter. There are certainly easier ways to make a living than music. Like doing just about anything else.

[espec10001]

I think a lot of artists and musicians forget about the essence of their craft. Music isn't something that is tangible; you can't hold it in your hand, you can't eat it, you can't sit on it or sleep on it or even drink it. How then, can one expect to transform something of a "ephemeral" nature into something physical such as money?

Such is the essence of art and music. The instruments that you employ, such as a paintbrush, computer, guitar, voice, etc. are physical things used to create this "spirit". Art and music just exist. You can't really quantify their value because they are not of material existence! Sure there have been many people who have been able to turn music into lots of money, but those who do are missing out on what their craft really means.

And anyone should not be surprised by scum bags and the dark side of the music industry, because the "music industry" itself IS the dark side. It's akin to charging someone to breath air. It is the dark side if you wish to evoke a "following" for yourself.

[richardmac]

Originally Posted by espec10001

It is the dark side if you wish to evoke a "following" for yourself.

I don't understand what this means. Artists should not seek an audience? Should art not be enjoyed by others? Why on earth would an artist not want to be seen or heard?

[espec10001]

Originally Posted by richardmac

I don't understand what this means. Artists should not seek an audience? Should art not be enjoyed by others? Why on earth would an artist not want to be seen or heard?

Because the artist is forgetting that it isn't about him, it is about the work. The work exists, it is there, separate from him. Self promotion is the dark side. The music industry is itself self promotion. Does a song exist any less or more whether 5 people hear it or 5,000,000 people hear it?

You want to transform a formless entity into a material reward? That is an insult to the Muse! And she will punish you if you so happen to delve into the pits of the music industry to promote yourself. If a song is meant to be heard, it will be heard by the person or persons that are meant to hear it.

[richardmac]

Originally Posted by espec10001

If a song is meant to be heard, it will be heard by the person or persons that are meant to hear it.

How? Would that not require performing it, or making it available online for listening? Aren't both of those promotion?

[sabriel9v]

I could go on and on, but the point is, the higher you go in the business, the more you find out 1) how far it really is to get where you want to be, and 2) how absolutely corrupt the business end of it can be, and no one can fully prepare for that or know what they're getting into until they do it, IMO.

I like how you phrased that. I recently had the opportunity to interview a guy from a popular stoner rock group called Baroness. He told me that as they've moved up the music biz food chain, they've found that their initial goals and desires have not changed, but as soon as they hit some of those goals they have to constantly modify their own personal expectations in order to truly meet them. So far they're signed to a large indie label (Relapse records) and since that signing have acquired distribution rights and privileges in large record and retail outlets such as Best Buy and Target. But the guy still describes their experience as putting together pieces of puzzle of which they can only vaguely fathom or picture.

[espec10001]

Originally Posted by richardmac

How? Would that not require performing it, or making it available online for listening? Aren't both of those promotion?

Sure its song promotion not self promotion. No one cares about the performer just the songs he performs. I write songs and I perform them I don't put them online. I really don't want people to know who I am, I guess I'm different in the regard.

[Tom Siegel]

Originally Posted by espec10001

You want to transform a formless entity into a material reward? That is an insult to the Muse! And she will punish you if you so happen to delve into the pits of the music industry to promote yourself. If a song is meant to be heard, it will be heard by the person or persons that are meant to hear it.

This IS the music business forum...

If an artist is so inclined to work at there craft full time it becomes a necessary evil to promote yourself. Unless you have a rich spouse or the like. You are creating something and sharing it with others. The people who enjoy your music are willing to support your effort to continue creating it. This is not evil any more than the farmer selling food because people like to eat.

[ZERO HEROES]

Advertising, I make a lot from it. Bands can too.

[richardmac]

Yeah... I thought this was going somewhere bizarre. Just wanted to see HOW bizarre.

espec10001, You don't want people to know who you are. Mission accomplished. You don't want your music to be heard online. Done. This forum is not the right place for you - you've already arrived at your goal.

[espec10001]

Originally Posted by Tom Siegel

This IS the music business forum...

If an artist is so inclined to work at there craft full time it becomes a necessary evil to promote yourself. Unless you have a rich spouse or the like. You are creating something and sharing it with others. The people who enjoy your music are willing to support your effort to continue creating it. This is not evil any more than the farmer selling food because people like to eat.

Yeah and you should be promoting the songs, not yourself. It is the work that should speak for itself. But we all know that the "music" industry is all about "image", hence the cesspool of leeches that are lurking around every corner of the music industry.

The farmer grows food for people to eat because the food he produces is his work that is sold. He's not promoting himself at all, his product speaks for itself. If you are a musician, the songs you produce are your product. Why is it so hard for a musician to understand that if you want to sell "yourself", then you'll get what you asked for. Who cares who Bob Dylan and John Lennon and all the famous musicians are, it's about the songs they wrote. They say "Here's what I'm selling, take it or leave it". Do people care who Picasso was? No, they care about his works. Do people care who Mozart was? No, they care about his works.

You go to a job interview, you are selling your education, experience, and skills. No one cares who you are, only what you produce. If you feel that promoting yourself is more important than promoting the songs, then you might as well become a prostitute because that is what the music industry is.

[BlueStrat]

Originally Posted by espec10001

Yeah and you should be promoting the songs, not yourself. It is the work that should speak for itself. But we all know that the "music" industry is all about "image", hence the cesspool of leeches that are lurking around every corner of the music industry.

The farmer grows food for people to eat because the food he produces is his work that is sold. He's not promoting himself at all, his product speaks for itself. If you are a musician, the songs you produce are your product. Why is it so hard for a musician to understand that if you want to sell "yourself", then you'll get what you asked for. Who cares who Bob Dylan and John Lennon and all the famous musicians are, it's about the songs they wrote. They say "Here's what I'm selling, take it or leave it". Do people care who Picasso was? No, they care about his works. Do people care who Mozart was? No, they care about his works.

You go to a job interview, you are selling your education, experience, and skills. No one cares who you are, only what you produce. If you feel that promoting yourself is more important than promoting the songs, then you might as well become a prostitute because that is what the music industry is.

What a crock. My songs are a reflection of who I am, pure and simple. You hear one of my songs, you are learning something about me. Maybe YOU don't care who an artist is, but lots of people do. And like it or not, the personality of the artist goes a long way to getting the song heard, especially by unknowns.

[tim_7string]

Originally Posted by BlueStrat

What a crock. My songs are a reflection of who I am, pure and simple. You hear one of my songs, you are learning something about me. Maybe YOU don't care who an artist is, but lots of people do. And like it or not, the personality of the artist goes a long way to getting the song heard, especially by unknowns.

This is pretty much the way I feel too. I find it insulting when people say things like "I can't relate to your songs" (one guy said that to me, but he was a severe alcoholic/womanizer so maybe he wasn't my target audience). I may not be the best lyricist in the world, but my heart and soul goes into every song I create. A piece of me is shared with everyone. Some have been moved by them, others go "I'll pass, thanks." Nobody is going to like everything that is presented to them. That doesn't mean it isn't a personal experience.

If what espec10001 is saying was true, why would anyone care to learn all about an artist by reading their every Twitter thought, their blog, their posts on message boards (such as this one), their photos shot while at premieres of things, unflattering photos in tabloids, etc.? Eh, I don't buy it. And I don't think it's because people are whoring themselves out in every case.

Maybe as a kid, I didn't care who wrote the songs. I just enjoyed them. But I also appreciated that there was a person or persons who wrote them. I tried to find out who did create the songs I liked, not just be satisfied with "oh there's a song, nice...next."

There may have been love put into the creation of a farmer's food, but I seriously doubt people are going to want to learn what that farmer's favorite color is, where he lives, what kind of clothes he likes to wear, what his thoughts on the economy are, his political thoughts, his religious beliefs, etc. In THAT case, what he creates is his work and that's that. Not so with an artist.

I don't see anything evil about a person selling music he created. It's that person's choice to choose to sell it or give it away as they see fit. It's up to everyone else to decide whether or not they want to buy it.