Anyone using MIDI guitar?

[Anderton]

I dunno...used to use it a lot back in the late 80s, when hard disk recording wasn't really happening yet, so you couldn't record guitar audio very easily. But lately, I'm finding that processed guitar (whether Variax or Dark Fire) is a lot more satisfying and responsive. Anyone really into MIDI guitar? How do you use it?

[aliensporebomb]

I have the capability to do it, but haven't as yet done it.

Back in 1982 I had a full blown Roland GR system and after I sold that
in 1988 I used the intervening years to learn to play real keyboards.

But I might give it a shot, always wanted to control my favorite softsynths
from my guitar itself.

[guitarhelper]

I use Midi Guitar quite alot. Mostly home recording. I also use it to input notes into Sibelius for handouts for teaching, etc.
Axon Ax-50 with a Brian Moore MC1p.13 into Logic on a Macbook. I've using midi guitar for awhile. Since early/mid 90's.

Plan on using Mainstage with Guitar Rig and instrument plugins with the Axon for a live setup.

Brian
www.guitarhelper.net

[slight-return]

I don't anymore (though I still have a hex system in a Godin)

I used to in the 24 pin days GR-700, Ibanez MC-1, etc

funny thing on that - since classical guitar was my native and used a lot of "clean" techniques (where incidental sounds are minimized and notes are fully articulated not a value judgement, "dirty" style are just as valid, and not any easier - in many ways, I think control over those 'incidental sounds' can be harder)the early pitch-to-glitch work pretty OK for me (don't get me wrong, it still glitched at times)

As far as a sound production system, I eventually abandoned it. Not just because of poor tracking.
One thing I've noticed about "tracking" complaints of some of those earlier systems.
There were certainly tracking problems (both glitching and latency), but sometimes when guys complained about "tracking", well the pitch identification was working OK, but a lot of the other timbre information gets scrubbed - guitarists (esp, "dirty" guitarists) get used to producing a lot of sounds that are easily broken down to discrete parameters (half damped notes, timbre variation from changing how a note is plucked and fingered, etc) and that information would just get tossed. So the note would sound, but it could feel removed from the player
(a common trick was to mix in a little std guitar signal in, even if you were going for a fully "synth" sound)

I kind of went the way of (hex) processing -- I mean much of classic (subtractive style) synthesis really is processing of the oscillators anyway.
The old GR-100 kind of that approach
and even the GR-300 was like that with the hex fuzz in most of the G series guitars and the onboard tracking oscillators were kinda sorta a type of signal processor (the control was an audio signal NOT an abstracted control signal) --sorta kinda like a trad flip-flop octave divider

the VG-8 series stuff was a (radical) update of that sort of philosophy. I was hoping for more toward the HRM than the guitar modelling out of those, it seemed like they even dumped some of the HRM in the VG-88.


I never really used my MIDI stuff for transcription, though perhaps that would have been a better area to use those early system.
Though maybe I should revisit the technology

[Nik]

Been using MIDIguitar for about 20 years. Originally a Roland G303 guitar into a GM70 guitar to MIDI converter. Then a Yamaha G50 for a few months. Now Axon products driven by a Godin LGXT.

Live, I've played bass and keybord parts both layered with the natural guitar sound and alone. Including Sax and Hammond solos and using the Axon's arpegiator to generate bass lines on the fly.

In my little bedroom studio I use it as a featured instrument and also for programming sequences.

Latency and feel were a problem i the early days, but after so many years and with the fast tracking of the Axon, I just pick it up and play.

[daku]

I've been eyeing the new Sonuus G2M ($100)

translates your electric guitar to mono-phonic midi and could control soft synths

I am looking for stand alone sound modules that would provide strings or organs tones for my live rig but am woefully ignorant of available options

[slight-return]

One thing that concerns me about the monophonic solutions (and this problem dates back...trying to attack the problem monophonically isn't new)

is that guitar tends to have a lot of, even inadvertent polyphony -- one of the classic areas where the mono systems (the G2M I haven't tried) is string crossing -- where, esp if playing in a legato style you can have "overlap" (of two strings ringing) as you change strings, so it can require some change n technique which can be really annoying to some)

for your specific application, I am concerned that a monophonic solution might be limiting with things like organ patches (where you might find yourself really wanting to do chords)

eh, just something to consider - nothing set in stone there

[girevik]

Animal Collective already beat me to it, but I'm still going to try plugging the MIDI output of my VG-99 into the MIDI IN of my Korg M3 while it's running a KARMA combi/program and see what happens.

Generally, I've been more satisfied with getting various tones from audio processing rather than MIDI guitar. I am however interested in exploring interactive music making with a generative program like KARMA receiving MIDI input from the guitar.

[bdegrande]

Parker MIDIFly. I like it for its simplicity, the conversion is done on the guitar itself, so the output is a normal 5 pin MIDI and not the 13 pin. The company that made the electronics went out of business, though.

I also prefer the Variax and use it far more often.

[strings&things]

Originally Posted by daku

I've been eyeing the new Sonuus G2M ($100)

+1

this device appeals to me, also ..... it's small, compact .... and no special guitar is needed .... no modifications needed to the guitar .....

[aliensporebomb]

Originally Posted by slight-return

I don't anymore (though I still have a hex system in a Godin)

I used to in the 24 pin days GR-700, Ibanez MC-1, etc

funny thing on that - since classical guitar was my native and used a lot of "clean" techniques (where incidental sounds are minimized and notes are fully articulated not a value judgement, "dirty" style are just as valid, and not any easier - in many ways, I think control over those 'incidental sounds' can be harder)the early pitch-to-glitch work pretty OK for me (don't get me wrong, it still glitched at times)

As far as a sound production system, I eventually abandoned it. Not just because of poor tracking.
One thing I've noticed about "tracking" complaints of some of those earlier systems.
There were certainly tracking problems (both glitching and latency), but sometimes when guys complained about "tracking", well the pitch identification was working OK, but a lot of the other timbre information gets scrubbed - guitarists (esp, "dirty" guitarists) get used to producing a lot of sounds that are easily broken down to discrete parameters (half damped notes, timbre variation from changing how a note is plucked and fingered, etc) and that information would just get tossed. So the note would sound, but it could feel removed from the player
(a common trick was to mix in a little std guitar signal in, even if you were going for a fully "synth" sound)

I kind of went the way of (hex) processing -- I mean much of classic (subtractive style) synthesis really is processing of the oscillators anyway.
The old GR-100 kind of that approach
and even the GR-300 was like that with the hex fuzz in most of the G series guitars and the onboard tracking oscillators were kinda sorta a type of signal processor (the control was an audio signal NOT an abstracted control signal) --sorta kinda like a trad flip-flop octave divider

the VG-8 series stuff was a (radical) update of that sort of philosophy. I was hoping for more toward the HRM than the guitar modelling out of those, it seemed like they even dumped some of the HRM in the VG-88.


I never really used my MIDI stuff for transcription, though perhaps that would have been a better area to use those early system.
Though maybe I should revisit the technology

Yeah, the biggest thing I missed about my old GR100 module is the hexfuzz and I hear at least one preset in the VG99 that's a total re-do of my old
hex-fuzz sound. Really happy about that one because an old tune some friends and I did relied on that sound and the last remaining tape got
eaten so I can redo that particular track if necessary.

The nicest side effect of the old pitch-to-voltage days though (I had an early electro-harmonix guitar synth as well as the GR system) was
that my technique got a lot cleaner. It had to!

[doug osborne]

Roland GR-09 (fine/bad '80s sounds, good tracking with internal sounds)
GK-2 (currently on ES-340)
Roland GI-20 - MIDI to computer (much faster than GR-09)
Graphtech Hexpander system, waiting to finish tele project.

I used this to some extent back in the day, but my life got turned upside down and this was the last gear to be resurrected.

I tracked some guitar last night with the mag pickups into Guitar Rig 3, doubled with some synth sounds from Rapture and V-Sampler. It's great to create fantasy sounds with precise doubling of effected guitar and synth.

I downloaded the demos of NI's Kontakt 3 and Even Harmonic's GTAK Kontakt script. This is a match made in heaven for MIDI guitarists - the script makes all the Kontakt sounds come alive. The GTAK programmer has done his homework. Now I have to get the full versions of Kontkt and GTAK. $$$. :-(

MIDI guitar, as has been said, is a completely different instrument than either a guitar or a keyboard, and different technique has to be developed. But it's not that hard, and it is rewarding.

[Anderton]

Originally Posted by daku

I've been eyeing the new Sonuus G2M ($100)

I have one here. For the price, you can't beat it - just don't expect miracles. As with all guitar-to-MIDI converters your technique has to be very clean. But if all you want to do is lay down a quick single-note solo or bass line, that's probably the simplest/easiest way to go.

[Hard Truth]

I have the Sonuus and agree with Anderton's asessment. I'll start a thread on it with more info.

[gtrbass]

Live, I use a Godin w/ RMC system into an Axon AX100 mkII, driving an E-MU Vintage Pro (expanded with the B-3, Extreme Lead, and Sounds of the ZR ROM's).

This is quite a formidable live rig. I also play keys, but Live it is quite cool to have keyboard sounds blended in, but no keyboard onstage.

[jimbles]

Another Godin/Axon user here... Really need to have more of a fiddle around and maybe get some soft synths on the go (anyone know of any good open source ones???). At the moment I mostly just use it for pads and stuff, but ould like to delve more deeply into the sorta stuff you see Burr Johnson doing in the demo videos...

[Anderton]

The best MIDI guitar I ever played in terms of tracking was the Beetle Quantar, which squirted an ultrasonic signal down the neck and measured the reflection time to where your finger was. Brilliant. Yamaha used the same technology in the G10 (affectionately known as the "MIDI DustBuster" owing to its shape) and it was almost as good. Apparently, though, there were two big problems:

1. People couldn't stand having to use all "G" strings (a necessary part of the technology - you couldn't use wound strings). The strings were just there to provide a place to fret, so the ultrasonic detectors could do their thing.
2. Because of that, you couldn't layer guitar parts with MIDI sounds.

It would be nice if someone resurrected this technology, though...

[kenact]

I use a Godin LGXT with a Roland GR-20. Typically run the synth out to the pa and run the guitar out to a Fender Twin. I also record using a GI-20 into Cubase4.

Live, you can't really strum for most of the instruments. Have you ever heard anyone try to strum a sax? It ain't pretty. But you can strum chords for some of the string and organ patches. You can also pick chords for a lot of the other patches. Finger picking some of the pianos can be terrific.

It does take some time to get used to it and you do have to adjust your style, but it opens up a slew of new instruments to the player. I love it.

[germanicus2112]

Originally Posted by Anderton

I dunno...used to use it a lot back in the late 80s, when hard disk recording wasn't really happening yet, so you couldn't record guitar audio very easily. But lately, I'm finding that processed guitar (whether Variax or Dark Fire) is a lot more satisfying and responsive. Anyone really into MIDI guitar? How do you use it?

I use midi and modelling guitars quite often.
My rig is centered around Rolands vg99 system, a laptop or gr33, an rc50 and a traynor k4 keyboard amp. I drive the vg99 with a Godin LGXT and a few Variax's (600 and the 700 acoustic) equipped with gk systems.

The vg99 is incredible versatile. What many fail to realize is that its a rather great computer interface with extremely low latency. I use it live with a laptop to drive softsynths (Gmedia's M-tron) and also to record directly using the USB.

I also use a roland gr33 (as a sound module, I let the 99 do the actual conversion) live sometimes instead of the laptop if im more nervous about bringing a laptop to a certain gig.

[Valtyr]

I have a Line 6 Variax with a Roland GK Midi Pickup installed. I run the Variax through a POD XTL and a Roland GR-33.

I am mostly focused on home recording and love the versatility of this setup. I tend to use it for cleaner tones or adding synth parts to my recordings.

I prefer a more conventional rig for overdriven/distorted guitar leads.