Van Halen and Led Zepplin Sue Nightclub Over Cover Songs

[GOSG]

I'm guessing that this is regarding ASCAP/BMI fees that any club pays to use copyrighted material to entertain their patrons, however the writer of this doesn't seem to understand the law. (I can't access the original article, since I hate filling out questionnaires!) So does anyone know any details about this story?

http://blogcritics.org/archives/2007/02/24/200714.php

[ibobunot]

Rock stars sue 8150

Van Halen, Jimmy Page and others allege copyright violations by Vail business owner



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Steve Lynn
Vail, CO Colorado
February 22, 2007

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VAIL - Several famous musicians are suing a local business owner for copyright infringement for allowing cover bands to play their songs without permission.

Van Halen Music Company, Jimmy Page, Robert Plant, John Paul Jones and Patricia Bonham are all named as plaintiffs in a lawsuit alleging that Vail business owner Steven Kovacik allowed public performances of their songs at 8150, the lawsuit says.

Kovacik, owner of 8150, said he would not comment on the lawsuit. The lawsuit, which was filed in U.S. District Court in Colorado, names Kovacik and a company named Big Snow Ball LLC as defendants.

The plaintiffs alleged 10 counts of copyright infringement because the defendants allowed bands to play 10 copyrighted songs on Jan. 15 and 16 at 8150, the lawsuit says. The plaintiffs are suing for as little as $750 per song and as much as $30,000 per song, plus attorneys' fees, according to court documents.

Anthony Juarez, an event coordinator who represents the local band initfortim-who opened for female cover band Lez Zeppelin at 8150 on Jan. 15-said he was surprised by the lawsuit.

"Bands cover famous songs all the time," Juarez said. "We cover songs sometimes."

The lawsuit contends that the defendants allowed public performances of songs such as "Heartbreaker," "Whole Lotta Love," "Rock and Roll" and "Black Dog," written by Jimmy Page, Robert Plant and other members of Led Zeppelin; "Hot for Teacher," written by Eddie Van Halen and David Lee Roth of Van Halen; and "You Shook Me all Night" written by Angus Young, Malcolm Young members of AC/DC.

The defendants failed to obtain a license agreement from the plaintiffs or the American Society of Composers, Authors and Publishers, according to the lawsuit.

Conor Farley, a Denver attorney for the plaintiffs, did not return phone calls seeking comment Thursday night.

[StratMonster]

Is this a joke?!?. What is the music industry coming to. Pretty soon they will try to sue you for whistleing a tune in public!

[THBv2.0]

[unichord]

3 clubs near me have stopped having bands because of ASCAP strong-arming them. More to come.

They cancelled several month of bookings.

Doing everything they can to kill music altogether.

But - it's OK for DJ's to spin the original recordings for profit at weddings etc.....

btw - I've heard bootlegs of Van Halen doing covers in their club days. No doubt they've mailed the appropriate fees to the lawyers for THEIR copyright infringements.....

[fetishfrog]

I guess Eddie is looking to buy a new tongue.

[RyanVanHalen]

I guess I don't get it. What the hell are cover bands supposed to do?

so... a bar books you as a cover band, you show up to the gig, start tappin Hot for Teacher, and they close ya down?

Wait a minute... I guess I answered my own question. I probably wouldn't feel too great about some band making money off the tunes I wrote.

Maybe I'm confused.

[ihateyouguys]

bars are supposed to pay the ASCAP / BMI fees so bands don't have to worry about them. The bands aren't the problem here, it's the venue owner.

Bars / restaurants make money from having music in their establishment. They benefit from the works of the artists, but some don't feel they should have to pay for the things that helps increase their profits. And if you don't believe they benefit from having copyrighted works performed in their bars, either via bands, CD's, or DJ's, then take away their ability to play that music and watch them complain that you're costing them money.

If it costs them money by taking it away, then therefore it must add money to the baseline revenue by having it. So they are reaping a benefit, but simply think they shouldn't have to pay for it.

[Scafeets]

Originally Posted by ihateyouguys

bars are supposed to pay the ASCAP / BMI fees so bands don't have to worry about them. The bands aren't the problem here, it's the venue owner.

Bars / restaurants make money from having music in their establishment. They benefit from the works of the artists, but some don't feel they should have to pay for the things that helps increase their profits. And if you don't believe they benefit from having copyrighted works performed in their bars, either via bands, CD's, or DJ's, then take away their ability to play that music and watch them complain that you're costing them money.

If it costs them money by taking it away, then therefore it must add money to the baseline revenue by having it. So they are reaping a benefit, but simply think they shouldn't have to pay for it.

That pretty much covers it. It sounds like the club refused to get an ASCAP license (Zep and VH are both ASCAP) -- I know there's a weird formula to what it costs for a club to get a licesne, and it's based on capacity, revenue, how many nights you have music, etc. -- but it's basically chump change. A year's license should cost less than a cover band's one-night charge. And clubs are supposed to pay whether it's live music, karaoke, a juke box, MTV on a big screen, etc. Different rates apply, but yeah.... non-payment can end in a lawsuit.

Most state bar and restaurant associations have negotiated blanket deals. I know members of the NY Restaurant Assoc. get a 20% discount. So, "posted" rates (which are really well hidden and not discussed by BMI, ASCAP and SESAC) are generally a lot more than "negotiated rates" -- which is what most clubs and promoters pay.

Last time I checked, a concert promoter was expected to pay about $50 per organization (way less for SESAC) for 3,000 sold tickets.

[ZeppelinPie792]

Why can't we just play whatever music we want with all of this legal crap?

[Guitar Centaur]

Originally Posted by Scafeets

That pretty much covers it. It sounds like the club refused to get an ASCAP license (Zep and VH are both ASCAP) -- I know there's a weird formula to what it costs for a club to get a licesne, and it's based on capacity, revenue, how many nights you have music, etc. -- but it's basically chump change. A year's license should cost less than a cover band's one-night charge. And clubs are supposed to pay whether it's live music, karaoke, a juke box, MTV on a big screen, etc. Different rates apply, but yeah.... non-payment can end in a lawsuit.

Most state bar and restaurant associations have negotiated blanket deals. I know members of the NY Restaurant Assoc. get a 20% discount. So, "posted" rates (which are really well hidden and not discussed by BMI, ASCAP and SESAC) are generally a lot more than "negotiated rates" -- which is what most clubs and promoters pay.

Last time I checked, a concert promoter was expected to pay about $50 per organization (way less for SESAC) for 3,000 sold tickets.

That sounds completely reasonable, and I like the fact that it's not the bands that are being targeted. Even if bands DID have to pay a nominal fee, I probably wouldn't mind if I knew the money was going to the benefit of the artist.

After all, I'm using THEIR creation to make money myself!

[Guitar Centaur]

Originally Posted by Scafeets

That pretty much covers it. It sounds like the club refused to get an ASCAP license (Zep and VH are both ASCAP) -- I know there's a weird formula to what it costs for a club to get a licesne, and it's based on capacity, revenue, how many nights you have music, etc. -- but it's basically chump change. A year's license should cost less than a cover band's one-night charge. And clubs are supposed to pay whether it's live music, karaoke, a juke box, MTV on a big screen, etc. Different rates apply, but yeah.... non-payment can end in a lawsuit.

Most state bar and restaurant associations have negotiated blanket deals. I know members of the NY Restaurant Assoc. get a 20% discount. So, "posted" rates (which are really well hidden and not discussed by BMI, ASCAP and SESAC) are generally a lot more than "negotiated rates" -- which is what most clubs and promoters pay.

Last time I checked, a concert promoter was expected to pay about $50 per organization (way less for SESAC) for 3,000 sold tickets.

That sounds completely reasonable, and I like the fact that it's not the bands that are being targeted. Even if bands DID have to pay a nominal fee, I probably wouldn't mind if I knew the money was going to the benefit of the artist.

After all, I'm using THEIR creation to make money myself!

[Guitar Centaur]

Originally Posted by Scafeets

That pretty much covers it. It sounds like the club refused to get an ASCAP license (Zep and VH are both ASCAP) -- I know there's a weird formula to what it costs for a club to get a licesne, and it's based on capacity, revenue, how many nights you have music, etc. -- but it's basically chump change. A year's license should cost less than a cover band's one-night charge. And clubs are supposed to pay whether it's live music, karaoke, a juke box, MTV on a big screen, etc. Different rates apply, but yeah.... non-payment can end in a lawsuit.

Most state bar and restaurant associations have negotiated blanket deals. I know members of the NY Restaurant Assoc. get a 20% discount. So, "posted" rates (which are really well hidden and not discussed by BMI, ASCAP and SESAC) are generally a lot more than "negotiated rates" -- which is what most clubs and promoters pay.

Last time I checked, a concert promoter was expected to pay about $50 per organization (way less for SESAC) for 3,000 sold tickets.

That sounds completely reasonable, and I like the fact that it's not the bands that are being targeted. Even if bands DID have to pay a nominal fee, I probably wouldn't mind if I knew the money was going to the benefit of the artist.

After all, I'm using THEIR creation to make money myself!

[Guitar Centaur]

Originally Posted by Scafeets

That pretty much covers it. It sounds like the club refused to get an ASCAP license (Zep and VH are both ASCAP) -- I know there's a weird formula to what it costs for a club to get a licesne, and it's based on capacity, revenue, how many nights you have music, etc. -- but it's basically chump change. A year's license should cost less than a cover band's one-night charge. And clubs are supposed to pay whether it's live music, karaoke, a juke box, MTV on a big screen, etc. Different rates apply, but yeah.... non-payment can end in a lawsuit.

Most state bar and restaurant associations have negotiated blanket deals. I know members of the NY Restaurant Assoc. get a 20% discount. So, "posted" rates (which are really well hidden and not discussed by BMI, ASCAP and SESAC) are generally a lot more than "negotiated rates" -- which is what most clubs and promoters pay.

Last time I checked, a concert promoter was expected to pay about $50 per organization (way less for SESAC) for 3,000 sold tickets.

That sounds completely reasonable, and I like the fact that it's not the bands that are being targeted. Even if bands DID have to pay a nominal fee, I probably wouldn't mind if I knew the money was going to the benefit of the artist.

After all, I'm using THEIR creation to make money myself!

[Guitar Centaur]

Originally Posted by Scafeets

That pretty much covers it. It sounds like the club refused to get an ASCAP license (Zep and VH are both ASCAP) -- I know there's a weird formula to what it costs for a club to get a licesne, and it's based on capacity, revenue, how many nights you have music, etc. -- but it's basically chump change. A year's license should cost less than a cover band's one-night charge. And clubs are supposed to pay whether it's live music, karaoke, a juke box, MTV on a big screen, etc. Different rates apply, but yeah.... non-payment can end in a lawsuit.

Most state bar and restaurant associations have negotiated blanket deals. I know members of the NY Restaurant Assoc. get a 20% discount. So, "posted" rates (which are really well hidden and not discussed by BMI, ASCAP and SESAC) are generally a lot more than "negotiated rates" -- which is what most clubs and promoters pay.

Last time I checked, a concert promoter was expected to pay about $50 per organization (way less for SESAC) for 3,000 sold tickets.

That sounds completely reasonable, and I like the fact that it's not the bands that are being targeted. Even if bands DID have to pay a nominal fee, I probably wouldn't mind if I knew the money was going to the benefit of the artist.

After all, I'm using THEIR creation to make money myself!

[newmaxnew]

The music industry is destroying itself. They made the whole pop music scene and now they complain that people aren't buying the crap they are selling. They try to blame it on pirates. You think it has anything to do with the general lack of quality product they have been trying to sell?

Max

[RyanVanHalen]

Apparently CrustCabs really believes what he says.

[Guitar Centaur]

Originally Posted by newmaxnew

The music industry is destroying itself. They made the whole pop music scene and now they complain that people aren't buying the crap they are selling. They try to blame it on pirates. You think it has anything to do with the general lack of quality product they have been trying to sell?

Max

No, because there are still PLENTY of idiots out there who are willing to buy and listen to that shit.

The whole world is made up of pre-programmed lemmings, and this industry (like any other) is gonna ride it until it gives out.

[ihateyouguys]

Originally Posted by newmaxnew

The music industry is destroying itself. They made the whole pop music scene and now they complain that people aren't buying the crap they are selling. They try to blame it on pirates. You think it has anything to do with the general lack of quality product they have been trying to sell?

Max

The songs they played must have had a certain quality otherwise they wouldn't have played them, would they?

Don't confuse ASCAP and BMI with the big, bad music industry - which most people believe are the RIAA and the big record companies. What ASCAP and BMI are about is getting the artist / copyright holder payment for use of their work.

In a business where the record companies and RIAA want to screw the 'talent' out of every dime they can, it's pretty bad to lump in the groups that want to help those artists get the money they are owed for using their work.

[TheMan]

I haven't looked or noticed for years, but I remember seeing ASCAP and BMI license stickers on windows or doors of bars I've played. You know, even churches pay a flat fee for a license for the use of Contemporary Christian music.

I'd imagine that the purpose of this particular lawsuit has little to do with collecting royalties from this one bar, and everything to do with making a high profile statement to encourage other restaurant and bar owners to get their licenses in order.