A Kinder Gentler Political Forum - Page 3 - Harmony Central Musician Community Forums

Tom Hicks · 10-25-2009, 07:48 AM

PP certainly has a high signal to noise ratio. But the terms of service rules in place are fine, were they actually enforced consistently. The tacit admission that mods are too overwhelmed to do more than spot checking and enforcement is the key.

nat whilk II · 10-26-2009, 05:00 PM

As I recall way back when the PP was created, it was definitely a move to give the sub-human element a place to get their yayas out and most importantly, get it O-U-T of the other forums, SSS in particular.

The main thing was to protect and defend the heart of the forums, the music stuff. There was a decision whether to just ban political/religious rants entirely (which would mean heavy mod duty as they would go guerilla in ALL the forums) or give them a nasty playground in which they could scream and insult and beat their chests and write the nastiest things they could think of, using the nastiest matter they could find, on the walls, themselves, and each other.

It's very important that the mods protect themselves from attempting impossible tasks. Too much stomping by the mods always results in a wrong head getting hammered sooner or later. And mod burnout is hard enough an issue to deal with without making it yet harder.

That said, I do think - o such an idealist dreamer I remain - that respectful discussion of political/religious/sensitive topics is possible and would be an amazing thing to participate in.

But SSS really works as it is, and if chasing this dream should end up threatening the hard-earned overall good vibe of the forums, it ain't worth it.

nat whilk ii

slodge · 10-26-2009, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anderton

One thing I am considering is banning people from the PP who post ONLY in the PP. It's supposed to be a place for musicians to hang out, and if people don't participate in any music-oriented forums, I wonder if they're actually musicians or just have some agenda.
.

I think this might be a good idea.

As a frequent visitor to PP, I've noticed that the people who I see in other forums tend to be more polite and reasonable than those I only see in PP.

BTW -what is SSS?

I've also noticed a difference in my tone when I'm disagreeing with someone I "know" from another forum.

I suspect that there are many ID's that only post in PP, and that they are the source of much of the ugliness in there.

6Imzadi · 10-29-2009, 08:42 PM

Why can't everyone use their real names instead of monikers? There would be much less gaff. I think that's where most of your troubles come from.

I know, there's a place that has this rule strictly enforced, but there's much less noise and a lot more signal as a result.

Desalines · 10-30-2009, 11:36 AM

Interesting thread. I would leave things as they are.

I'll bet that people can't even come to a consensus as to what politics is. Is it partisanship based on belief systems? Is it the performance of the business of the people? Is it simply how the political system works as in "political science"? Is it the art of getting votes? Is it, in our democratic system, the art of compromise? If its the last one, it often appears these days that we have no artists left, which is sort of political statement in itself. However, I think the OP was opining more about an issues forum that would be wider ranging than just domestic politics though it would probably include that. However, if you ban certain segments or people don't you only create an echo chamber?

BlueStrat · 10-30-2009, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slodge

I think this might be a good idea.

As a frequent visitor to PP, I've noticed that the people who I see in other forums tend to be more polite and reasonable than those I only see in PP.

BTW -what is SSS?

I've also noticed a difference in my tone when I'm disagreeing with someone I "know" from another forum.

I suspect that there are many ID's that only post in PP, and that they are the source of much of the ugliness in there.

It's Anderton's 'Sound, Studio and Stage' forum. You might like it!

AluminumNeck · 10-30-2009, 02:49 PM

I think you should remove all the moderation in the PP area. Make it 18 and over only and NSFW.

Done. It lets the evil out. www.Yellowbullet.com did this years ago with the "trash or be trashed section" anything goes in that forum area, and its been a good thing for them since its inception. the amount of trolling etc on the rest of the forum areas is near nil.

DevilRaysFan · 10-30-2009, 04:51 PM

Im one of those people that - if you read my posts and then met me in person - you wouldnt think Im the same guy

Reading PP, I find that it seems that 'venting' is a common practice there among its regulars: people getting to say whats on their mind and finally getting it off their chest, throwing it into that forum like a grenade and directed at anybody willing to listen - for better or worse. Ive done that recently myself (the only time in my tenure here that I had)...something that I would never do in person at any social gathering (and something that I wont do here again

)

Amidst the trolling and venting, there is a lot that can be learned there and opinions that should be considered. It gives any reader a different perspective on any topic

There is a therapeutic value to PP - Im not saying thats good or bad; its just what it is

muel · 11-01-2009, 08:05 PM

I post almost exclusively at PP because for me music and politics go hand in hand. I first got into music at about the age of 15, when a friend and I started writing a bunch of political satire songs about how corrupt and insane Nixon was. It wasn't high art, but it was a couple of kids being creative and practicing musical expression. It was fun. It was almost by accident that I learned how to play - I had just participated in writing the words to a bunch of songs with a friend and I somehow felt obligated to learn how to play and sing them. But after a while I started enjoying all the other stuff that comes with playing guitar - some people just think you're the bees knees because you can jam, some girls think it's cool and every teenage boy likes that, and at some point I even got semi-serious about it, jamming with friends every chance I got and even stumbling into a few small gigs along the way. The guitar became a large part of my identity and i liked it that way. But it still had its origins in my political identity and remained inextricably linked to the political in my life.

I first started posting at HC when, after a period of several years when I had not picked up my instrument at all, I experienced a kind of "musical reawakening." I was playing guitar at various business social functions when working at the Chamber of Commerce of Hawaii as communications director, and I got G.A.S. real heavy for a while. I was at a point where I could afford good gear for the first time in my life, and I was blown away by the advances in guitar tech that had come along during my sabbatical from guitar.

But in my experience music is inherently political, and a political musicians forum makes great sense to me. That's why about 99.5% of my posts are in the music forum. I should add that I HAVE even written a gear review or two in the effects database - I'm a sucker for a good vibe or wah.

Uma Floresta · 11-02-2009, 09:43 AM

HCPP is the Harmony Central's safety valve. Try to plug it up and you'll just get steam exploding out of a hundred tiny cracks all over the forum.

Terry Allan Hall · 11-03-2009, 05:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 6Imzadi

Why can't everyone use their real names instead of monikers? There would be much less gaff. I think that's where most of your troubles come from.

I know, there's a place that has this rule strictly enforced, but there's much less noise and a lot more signal as a result.

I've long thought the same thing...the troublemakers NEVER use their own names (which is certainly not to say that all of those employing a nom de clavier are troublemakers, of course)...

And I don't know if this is universal (throughout H-C) or only in the PP, but it's been pointed out, by several folks, that those hiding behind monikers that have the work "strat" in them are among the worse trolls/offenders...not sure why.

Uma Floresta · 11-03-2009, 06:04 AM

That's another reason a stricter policy at HCPP won't work - most of them come back with different monikers anyway, after being banned.

StratGuy22 · 11-10-2009, 06:31 PM

Less repubicans, if that's possible.

10-25-2009, 07:48 AM	#41
Tom Hicks Hall of Fame Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Fort Worth,Tx USA Posts: 33,382	PP certainly has a high signal to noise ratio. But the terms of service rules in place are fine, were they actually enforced consistently. The tacit admission that mods are too overwhelmed to do more than spot checking and enforcement is the key. __________________ Is this thing on?

10-30-2009, 11:36 AM	#45
Desalines Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: MA. Posts: 768	Interesting thread. I would leave things as they are. I'll bet that people can't even come to a consensus as to what politics is. Is it partisanship based on belief systems? Is it the performance of the business of the people? Is it simply how the political system works as in "political science"? Is it the art of getting votes? Is it, in our democratic system, the art of compromise? If its the last one, it often appears these days that we have no artists left, which is sort of political statement in itself. However, I think the OP was opining more about an issues forum that would be wider ranging than just domestic politics though it would probably include that. However, if you ban certain segments or people don't you only create an echo chamber? __________________ "We are all exiles from the past"

10-30-2009, 04:51 PM	#48
DevilRaysFan Hall of Fame Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Floriduh Posts: 10,861	Im one of those people that - if you read my posts and then met me in person - you wouldnt think Im the same guy Reading PP, I find that it seems that 'venting' is a common practice there among its regulars: people getting to say whats on their mind and finally getting it off their chest, throwing it into that forum like a grenade and directed at anybody willing to listen - for better or worse. Ive done that recently myself (the only time in my tenure here that I had)...something that I would never do in person at any social gathering (and something that I wont do here again ) Amidst the trolling and venting, there is a lot that can be learned there and opinions that should be considered. It gives any reader a different perspective on any topic There is a therapeutic value to PP - Im not saying thats good or bad; its just what it is __________________ DRF On MySpace FOR SALE Burgundy Peavey T-40 Bass with case Last edited by DevilRaysFan : 10-31-2009 at 01:41 AM.

11-10-2009, 06:31 PM	#53
StratGuy22 Hall of Fame Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 8,229	Less repubicans, if that's possible. __________________ We'll oil the jaws of the war machine, and feed it with our babies. Good transaction with spindlergallery, and your mom.

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10-26-2009, 05:00 PM	#42
nat whilk II Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 1,371	As I recall way back when the PP was created, it was definitely a move to give the sub-human element a place to get their yayas out and most importantly, get it O-U-T of the other forums, SSS in particular. The main thing was to protect and defend the heart of the forums, the music stuff. There was a decision whether to just ban political/religious rants entirely (which would mean heavy mod duty as they would go guerilla in ALL the forums) or give them a nasty playground in which they could scream and insult and beat their chests and write the nastiest things they could think of, using the nastiest matter they could find, on the walls, themselves, and each other. It's very important that the mods protect themselves from attempting impossible tasks. Too much stomping by the mods always results in a wrong head getting hammered sooner or later. And mod burnout is hard enough an issue to deal with without making it yet harder. That said, I do think - o such an idealist dreamer I remain - that respectful discussion of political/religious/sensitive topics is possible and would be an amazing thing to participate in. But SSS really works as it is, and if chasing this dream should end up threatening the hard-earned overall good vibe of the forums, it ain't worth it. nat whilk ii

10-30-2009, 02:49 PM	#47
AluminumNeck Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 1,925	I think you should remove all the moderation in the PP area. Make it 18 and over only and NSFW. Done. It lets the evil out. www.Yellowbullet.com did this years ago with the "trash or be trashed section" anything goes in that forum area, and its been a good thing for them since its inception. the amount of trolling etc on the rest of the forum areas is near nil.

11-01-2009, 08:05 PM	#49
muel Hall of Fame Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Kaneohe, Hawaii, USA Posts: 16,016	I post almost exclusively at PP because for me music and politics go hand in hand. I first got into music at about the age of 15, when a friend and I started writing a bunch of political satire songs about how corrupt and insane Nixon was. It wasn't high art, but it was a couple of kids being creative and practicing musical expression. It was fun. It was almost by accident that I learned how to play - I had just participated in writing the words to a bunch of songs with a friend and I somehow felt obligated to learn how to play and sing them. But after a while I started enjoying all the other stuff that comes with playing guitar - some people just think you're the bees knees because you can jam, some girls think it's cool and every teenage boy likes that, and at some point I even got semi-serious about it, jamming with friends every chance I got and even stumbling into a few small gigs along the way. The guitar became a large part of my identity and i liked it that way. But it still had its origins in my political identity and remained inextricably linked to the political in my life. I first started posting at HC when, after a period of several years when I had not picked up my instrument at all, I experienced a kind of "musical reawakening." I was playing guitar at various business social functions when working at the Chamber of Commerce of Hawaii as communications director, and I got G.A.S. real heavy for a while. I was at a point where I could afford good gear for the first time in my life, and I was blown away by the advances in guitar tech that had come along during my sabbatical from guitar. But in my experience music is inherently political, and a political musicians forum makes great sense to me. That's why about 99.5% of my posts are in the music forum. I should add that I HAVE even written a gear review or two in the effects database - I'm a sucker for a good vibe or wah.