O/T: Deer Hunting Season!

[rjoxyz]

Originally Posted by campfirehero

Not really directed at you, but just hunter's in general. Congratulations, you shot an animal with a high powered modern rifle...woohoo that was a challenge...

And please don't talk about the skill involved using a modern bow or muzzle loader. It would be more impressive if hunters would actually hunt, use a knife or make your own arrows, etc. All this high tech equipment hunter's use is

I like meat too...

No offense intended, but I have to assume you have never hunted whitetail deer nor spent much time discussing the subject with a dedicated hunter. If your description of what is involved in deer hunting was even close to complete, I would not have felt a need to respond.

The squeezing of the trigger or the release of the arrow at game is a short, sudden and intense moment. It may follow several minutes of trying to remain calm, controlling breathing and steading shaking hands and knees. It can't be understood by anyone who has not experienced it. Marksmanship and shot placement with either weapon is crucial, to accomplish a quick end to the animal's life. That is the final objective. A lesser result should never be acceptable.

The shot is what happens after a lot of other things come together. Things like scouting and site selection and patterning the deer. There is also studying deer behavior to anticipate their activity (timing when to hunt). Then you have to make yourself invisible to all the deer noses and eyes in the area. Scent control is critical. Tiny movements detected by a whitetail make them nervous. Unusual sounds (like a sleeve brushing against your chest) will have their heads on a swivel and ears twirling like helcopter rotors. Human scent will send them out of the area like missiles. YOU HAVE TO BE UNDETECTABLE in the deer's living room. These animals hold all the cards in this part of the game. They are hardwired to be ever-conscious of potential predators. Getting close to a mature buck is very hard. Again, only someone who has seen this up close (for years) can fully understand.

My viewpoint here is that of a bowhunter. I will not shoot beyond 30 yards. I am confident within that range. I have a responsibility to that deer. I still have to do everything the same with a firearm, I just have the ability to extend my range significantly.

I am not talking about the popular image of the poker playing, beer drinking, taking off opening day, just to be with the boys kind of hunter. Some of them get lucky, most don't. Some should not be in the field.

In any event, my lengthy point is that so many have perceptions of deer hunting and hunters, but with little personal experience. I have hunted whitetails for 36 years, the last 20 of which have been pretty successful, particularly in archery season----up close. I can't tell you how many hours I have spent in a ground blind or in a tree. I TAKE THIS SHIT SERIOUSLY! Please don't tell me how easy it is.

As to the use of modern weapons v. carving bows and arrows out of spare furniture in the basement, please see "the final objecive", above. If someone is capable of crafting their own weapons, using them effectively and humanely, my hat is off to them.

Very few are capable of being successful primitive hunters. There can be greater risk of suffering for the animal. Ineffective hunters will also be ineffective in doing their part in state game management. In my part of Michigan, the (shrinking) available habitat is woefully lacking compared to an expanding deer population. Management is very important. My way is easier on the deer than the grill of a pickup or windshield of a sedan. It also results in the use of the resource for food (instead of a gory roadside scene). Venison is a healthier and usually more natural substitute for beef.

I have neither the time nor a compelling reason to want to make my own weapons. Hunting whitetails with modern gear is plenty challenging for me. Use a knife? Really?

Sorry for the unsolicited OT rant. I'm just sayin'...

[GuitarVlog]

Originally Posted by Chordchunker

I take mine to the processor mainly because it is alot of work to butcher them in small enough cuts to where I don`t have to thaw a 20 lb shoulder just to have a small cook-out.

How much do they charge?

[Terry Allan Hall]

Originally Posted by campfirehero

Not really directed at you, but just hunter's in general. Congratulations, you shot an animal with a high powered modern rifle...woohoo that was a challenge...

And please don't talk about the skill involved using a modern bow or muzzle loader. It would be more impressive if hunters would actually hunt, use a knife or make your own arrows, etc. All this high tech equipment hunter's use is

I like meat too...

Some of us do make our own arrows and shoot traditional bows (in my case, I have a pair of 60# recurves...I've never wanted one w/ "training wheels ), and quite a few of us do it from the ground, not from a tree stand over a pile of grain.

Yes, it really does take skill hunting the "old way".

Those who prefer to get their protein from the butcher shop (or from a chunk of tofu) is fine by me, but please show the same respect for our choices that you want for yours...

[Terry Allan Hall]

Originally Posted by rjoxyz

No offense intended, but I have to assume you have never hunted whitetail deer nor spent much time discussing the subject with a dedicated hunter. If your description of what is involved in deer hunting was even close to complete, I would not have felt a need to respond.

The squeezing of the trigger or the release of the arrow at game is a short, sudden and intense moment. It may follow several minutes of trying to remain calm, controlling breathing and steading shaking hands and knees. It can't be understood by anyone who has not experienced it. Marksmanship and shot placement with either weapon is crucial, to accomplish a quick end to the animal's life. That is the final objective. A lesser result should never be acceptable.

The shot is what happens after a lot of other things come together. Things like scouting and site selection and patterning the deer. There is also studying deer behavior to anticipate their activity (timing when to hunt). Then you have to make yourselve invisible to all the deer noses and eyes in the area. Scent control is critical. Tiny movements detected by a whitetail make them nervous. Unusual sounds (like a sleeve brushing against your chest) will have their heads on a swivel and ears twirling like helcopter rotors. Human scent will send them out of the area like missiles. YOU HAVE TO BE UNDETECTABLE in the deer's living room. These animals hold all the cards in this part of the game. They are hardwired to be ever-conscious of potential predators. Getting close to a mature buck is very hard. Again, only someone who has seen this up close (for years) can fully understand.

My viewpoint here is that of a bowhunter. I will not shoot beyond 30 yards. I am confident within that range. I have a responsibility to that deer. I still have to do everything the same with a firearm, I just have the ability to extend my range significantly.

I am not talking about the popular image of the poker playing, beer drinking, taking off opening day, just to be with the boys kind of hunter. Some of them get lucky, most don't. Some should not be in the field.

In any event, my lengthy point is that so many have perceptions of deer hunting and hunters, but with little personal experience. I have hunted whitetails for 36 years, the last 20 of which have been pretty successful, particularly in archery season----up close. I can't tell you how many hours I have spent in a ground blind or in a tree. I TAKE THIS SHIT SERIOUSLY! Please don't tell me how easy it is.

As to the use of modern weapons v. carving bows and arrows out of spare furniture in the basement, please see "the final objecive", above. If someone is capable of crafting their own weapons, using them effectively and humanely, my hat is off to them.

Very few will be able to be successful primitive hunters. Ineffective hunters will also be ineffective in doing their part in state game management. In my part of Michigan, the (shrinking) available habitat is woefully lacking compared to an expanding deer population. Management is very important. My way is easier on the deer than the grill of a pickup or windshield of a sedan. It also results in the use of the resource for food (instead of a gory roadside scene). Venison is a healthier and usually more natural substitute for beef.

I have neither the time nor a compelling reason to want to make my own weapons. Hunting whitetails with modern gear is plenty challenging for me. Use a knife? Really?

Sorry for the unsolicited OT rant. I'm just sayin'...

Some VERY valid points!

[Hudman]

Originally Posted by Pagey

I love to shoot animals - with a good camera and a telephoto lens - hunting sucks.

Hunting is important for conservation. It is also important for farming.

Originally Posted by kimona

Doesn't take much courage to kill a defenceless animal.

Remember that the next time you eat a hamburger or a chicken sandwich.

Originally Posted by rjoxyz

2 weeks ago with a bow. Dressed close to 200. Cellphone pic.

Nice rack.

Originally Posted by campfirehero

Not really directed at you, but just hunter's in general. Congratulations, you shot an animal with a high powered modern rifle...woohoo that was a challenge...

And please don't talk about the skill involved using a modern bow or muzzle loader. It would be more impressive if hunters would actually hunt, use a knife or make your own arrows, etc. All this high tech equipment hunter's use is

I like meat too...

Instead of playing that modern, store bought guitar, you should carve one from a tree.


I'm not a hunter, but I was raised by one. My father's entire family hunted. The only people that claim hunting is easy are those that don't know what they are talking about. They talk like hunters go down to the nearest petting zoo and shoot a deer with their 7 mag Remington.

There are people that have been hunting for years without a single kill. It's not easy, so stop saying it is.

[Galabar]

Originally Posted by rjoxyz

2 weeks ago with a bow. Dressed close to 200. Cellphone pic.

Hunting near Chernobyl?

[GuitarVlog]

Originally Posted by Galabar

Hunting near Chernobyl?

Nah. Zombie deer.

[jamesp]

What I've always wondered is why more people don't object to fishing. Can you imagine hooking a deer? Catch and release isn't about the harvest or conservation, it's purely about tormenting the fish for the sport of it.

Don't get me wrong, I love fishing. It's just always seemed odd to me that the Bambi killers get such a hard time from non-hunters, while we fisherfolk bask in an aura of genteel civility.

[rjoxyz]

Originally Posted by Hudman

Nice rack.

Thanks! Sports bra.

[kimona]

I've been vegetarian all my life.

[KATMAN]

Hunting is harder than it looks.Tell hunters that it is easy,they'll tell you stories of how a deer or turkey can move in such a way that a seemed sure shot will go harmlessly haywire. I find time in the wood refreshing,whether or I get something or not.

[Melodeous]

Okay. Thrill of the kill. That's what it is. Either you need to satisfy that or don't. I have no problems with either. I know some people who were snipers and got off on it. Others were just hunters and got off on that. Others couldn't understand either and went off on them. I don't care. It's an evolutionary thing. Some simply don't have that primordial draw anymore. Others do. But, mankind wouldn't have survived without it. I honestly think it easier to hunt with a rifle than a shopping cart but, hey, that's just me.

[Chordchunker]

Originally Posted by Melodeous

I honestly think it easier to hunt with a rifle than a shopping cart but, hey, that's just me.

There is more to it than you think. The deer doesn`t always fall right down in front of you where you can pull up the shopping cart and have someone put it in for you..Pulling the trigger is the easy part then the real work begins. Drunken city boys who go to the woods once a year to just get away from their wives have given alot of real hunters a bad name. The rambo bow hunters also leave more dead deer in the woods than any other type of hunter with alot of bad shots, then being to lazy to track it for several miles if needed.

I also hunt predators mainly coyotes because there is an over abundance where I live (poultry industry) and the state doesn`t do anything about it. If your house is full of cockroaches you call the exterminator..Who do you call if your land is infseted with coyote or deer? Out here you do it yourself. A bow hunting guide around here kills coyotes by hanging a big treble hook about 3-4 ft off the ground with a big piece of meat attached so when they raise up to bite the meat..well you get the picture. Very brutal and extremely inhumane, but no worse than what they do to chickens in a poultry plant..

[MM420]

modern hunting.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R4ssG4mJmmo

[Glenn F]

Originally Posted by Terry Allan Hall

Some of us do make our own arrows and shoot traditional bows (in my case, I have a pair of 60# recurves...I've never wanted one w/ "training wheels ), and quite a few of us do it from the ground, not from a tree stand over a pile of grain.

Yes, it really does take skill hunting the "old way".

Those who prefer to get their protein from the butcher shop (or from a chunk of tofu) is fine by me, but please show the same respect for our choices that you want for yours...

I never understood bloodlust, the need or wish to kill, especially when it is absolutely unnecessary. I had trouble putting rats down when I was doing my Thesis in college, and got into a tiff with my supervisor over what I deemed the needless killing of animals for, frankly, quite useless research. They needed to keep their research grants coming in, though.

Having watched a couple of documentaries on industrial 'farming,' and the workings of a slaughterhouse, I'd wanted to become a vegetarian for a long time, but was too weak-willed--until I got the results back on my ticker tests, and had suffered 2 gout attacks a year for a few years. Those places are certainly cruel, with a capital 'C.' I am glad that I have nothing more to do with that process.

Also, being a Canadian city-slicker, I have an aversion to guns. I understand the need to protect oneself in the wild, or protect one's livestock from predators. I do not understand killing for sport, or even for food, unless it is absolutely necessary. In this day and age, in modern Western societies, it rarely is.

Cheers,

Glenn

[Terry Allan Hall]

Originally Posted by Glenn F

I never understood bloodlust, the need or wish to kill, especially when it is absolutely unnecessary. I had trouble putting rats down when I was doing my Thesis in college, and got into a tiff with my supervisor over what I deemed the needless killing of animals for, frankly, quite useless research. They needed to keep their research grants coming in, though.

Having watched a couple of documentaries on industrial 'farming,' and the workings of a slaughterhouse, I'd wanted to become a vegetarian for a long time, but was too weak-willed--until I got the results back on my ticker tests, and had suffered 2 gout attacks a year for a few years. Those places are certainly cruel, with a capital 'C.' I am glad that I have nothing more to do with that process.

Also, being a Canadian city-slicker, I have an aversion to guns. I understand the need to protect oneself in the wild, or protect one's livestock from predators. I do not understand killing for sport, or even for food, unless it is absolutely necessary. In this day and age, in modern Western societies, it rarely is.

Cheers,

Glenn

If I may, respectfully, correct your misinformation, Glenn: If we stop hunting, the deer will quickly over-populate and then starve, due to the unfortunate slaughter of the predators who used to keep their numbers down.

As for your argumant that in "modern Western societies, it (hunting) rarely is (absolutely necessary)", I would (respectfully) point out that you're wrong on that point, too.

If you don't wish to hunt (or eat meat), that's your choice and I respect that, but my choice (and the choice of many) is to eat meat that is not poisoned w/ growth hormones and the Kharma of having been kept all it's life is less than humane conditions.

And w/ the economy being what it is, proactively supplying one's one food, be it from hunting, farming or raising livestock (all of which my family does), means that my family will always eat clean food...period.

And by teaching my children that which my grandfather taught me, as a boy, they'll pass on this knowledge to their children..

[tartanlad]

Originally Posted by Sisyphus2

Ive got no objections to hunting either as long as its done on an equal opportunities basis. There would be nothing funnier in my eyes than to see some of those turn the tables!!

I agree i reckon it's cruelty and makes me and an also i reckon isnt it about time Americans were banned from owning guns

[Sisyphus2]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=foUVt2d2AMM

[rjoxyz]

Originally Posted by Terry Allan Hall

If I may, respectfully, correct your misinformation, Glenn: If we stop hunting, the deer will quickly over-populate and then starve, due to the unfortunate slaughter of the predators who used to keep their numbers down.

It's not just the loss of natural predators either. In many areas, including Southeast Michigan, suburban development has sprawled for miles and miles, robbing deer of habitat and farmland (which fed them). In the deep woods of Northern Michigan, many deer do in fact starve to death during harsh winters.

Deer are incredibly adaptive and now live cheek to jowl with suburbanites, eating their shrubbery and running in front of their cars, dieing painfully or being horribly injured. Sometimes, the occupants of the cars fair just as poorly as they veer into a tree.

With fewer farms to choose from, deer will concentrate on what is available and cause serious crop damage and destroy the livelihood of some farmers. Amazingly, under these unnatural conditions, the local deer population continues to increase.

Simply put---too many deer and not enough habitat. Put another way, we humans chose to move into the deer habitat and have a responsibility to deal with the problem we created. That's where responsible hunters come in. We understand the concept of stewardship of natural resources.

I love and respect the deer I hunt more than anyone can understand from watching a Disney movie. I have spent a huge amount of time observing them up close and studying their behavior. They fascinate me.

Melodeus touches on what is likely true--some of us may have a vestigial hunter's instinct left over. There is a unique thrill to that final moment (though a close friend once commented I enjoyed the hunt more than the kill). However, if tomorrow, the deer population came into sync with the available environment, and hunting was banned---I'd be content to take my Pentax into the field instead of a bow or firearm---but I'd miss the venison.

[NASCARL]

There are many days that I go hunting where I don't kill anything...and guess what...those days are just as enjoyable as the days where I am fortunate enough to actually get a deer.