HELP! Professional Opinions Needed for a New Sanctuary

[Bezalel]

Hi - I'm setting up a new church sanctuary, dimension 44' wide and 70' long. Congregation about 180-200. Thinking about 2 sets of powered speakers, 1 set in the front and 1 set half way back. Since this is for church use (mostly voice) so aural clarity is important. But we plan to open a service for the younger crowd so loud music is expected.


I'm thinking 2 options:

Option A:
Front: Tapco Thump 15A
Halfway: Yamaha MSR100

Option B:
Front (somewhere on the floor): one 18" subwoofer
Front: Yamaha MSR250
Halfway: Yamaha MSR100

The advantage of option B is the speakers hanging on the walls are smaller and more aesthetically pleasing to people (not to me, I like BIG speakers :-). But are these viable options? Option B is more expensive. Will it give me enough clarity and power? I don't imagine we'll ever be as loud as in a club, but I'd like to have some capacity.

Or any other suggestion??? The EONs are just too expensive compared to the Tapco Thump - does it make such a big difference for church application?

THANKS!

[1tribe]

Well it doesnt look like you have much of a budget here so I orginally was going to suggest something like the EV ZXa5 with a 60deg horn but then I figured with the items you have choosen the ZXa5's are over budget. Next on the list might be a pair of EV SXa360's. Nice sounding, narrow pattern and self powered. They also have been lowered in price so they might be worth a look.
JBL PRX512/515 speakers would be another option to look at but will cost more than the Eons.
QSC K-Series might be one of the best options, K-10's and a sub perhaps?
The area isnt that deep, and the 44' width and 200 peeps isnt that much so I would think a pair of tops and a single sub to start would be a good choice.

[Bezalel]

Thank you for your reply. Can you please explain the concept of "narrow"? Is it referring to the angle (cone) of sound projecting from the speaker? Why is narrow better for my application? (I'll be mounting on the 2 sides of the room, probably from 9' softfit ceiling)

Regarding needing 1 or 2 pairs of speakers, I thought if I mount a 2nd set half way then I won't have to turn up the volume for the people in the rear. It would help prevent the blasting the front people and reduce feedback. True?

Finally, so QSC is higher quality than those Yamaha MSR series?

[allexcosta]

Budget?

[BillESC]

Unless you have the processing to accurately set a delay on the half way speakers, you're setting yourself up for muddy sound.

How high is the ceiling?

If at all possible, a center cluster of two narrow cabinets (60 x 60) will provide the best coverage and best intelligibility

[agedhorse]

Originally Posted by BillESC

Unless you have the processing to accurately set a delay on the half way speakers, you're setting yourself up for muddy sound.

How high is the ceiling?

If at all possible, a center cluster of two narrow cabinets (60 x 60) will provide the best coverage and best intelligibility

I agree.

The thread title asks for professional advice, but the thrust of the (OP's) post is an entirely non-professional approach.

My suggestion, before wasting your money, it's time to find a professional and hire a professional and spend realistic money rather than throw your money away on a junker solution that will need to be rplaced and upgraded the daythe doors open.

[Congoman]

44x70 is not a big room. I'd forget the relays.

Is it the standard rectangle? You need to look out for echo and cancellation and be careful of sound levels (again, not a big room).

There's probably someone in town (maybe at the store you're buying the system) who'd come out and give you good advice. I'd find him.

[Bezalel]

I'm sorry - perhaps I shouldn't mention the word "Professional" because we can't afford it. I'm just trying to do the best within the budget that we have (about $3K for the sound system). I know it's not much but it's what we have. I've been looking at Craigslist to see if there's any deal I can pick up.

The room will be about 13' high, 44' wide and 70' long. It's not high enough to have a central FOH speaker location. The room is not too long so I wouldn't worry about 2nd speaker delay either. I just want to set up a 4 speaker system so that I don't have to turn up the volume too loud for the people in the rear and cause feedback in the front. I did purchase a Sabine ADF4000 unit hoping to tune the room and reduce feedback with it.

So ... back to my original question ... Can someone in the know please make comment on it, or make some other suggestion? THANKS!

[witesol]

the problem with the 4 speaker approach is that the folks hearing both sets of speakers will have an unintelligable sound due to a delay between when the front speaker sound arrives vs the closest stack. make sense? normally a special delay is used to time the two stacks but in this small a room, raised and pointed flown speakers would probably do just fine.

by "loud music" do you mean a P&W band onstage or just tracks from CD?

$3k is more than enough to do something suitable.

4 of these in that room would probably work well...only two each side together
http://www.electrovoice.com/products/249.html

I'd probably go passive(non-powered)speakers if it was to be installed.
a small mixer, 2 decent amps, 2 EQs and a couple monitors would probably hit that $ mark but not installed or all the cables...maybe.

i'd warn against flying non flyable speakers you may find. speakers on stands is an option but worsens sight lines and can make it loud in front. the exception might be a couple MRX 515 on ultikmate stands using the tilt-down pole cup

[agedhorse]

You need to find a professional, there are good solutions that you are unaware of.

13' ceiling with the proper speakers is no problem at all. The problem is that you have no idea what's available to a professional installer.

[BillESC]

You could quite easily accomplish your goal with a single EV ZX5 flown horizontally.

[revhellhound]

I understand your challenge, but honestly, the 3K you are about to spend will be re-spent plus more over the next 1 - 1.5 years because you will not be happy with what you have...

If you cannot gather a larger budget, then at least buy main speakers that can be used later on as monitors... The EV or QSC speakers mentioned are good choices.

But please listen to the voice that says, "check with professionals." That advice isn't snobbery, it is experience. My church has a history of going and doing thing on its own, only to have to re-do things because they made poor choices.

[allexcosta]

These are widely used in churches. Dispersion is pretty wide so a single one in the middle could be an option.

[heath_eld]

1st agree with everyone on here who has said "get advice from a professional" and by that, one that actually comes and looks at your building, chats about what you want to do, and then gives advice. As someone mentioned, these people can buy gear cheaper than you can.

It also depends what sound you want - do you want a glorified orchestra, or a "rock band" style. Do you want to mic drums etc (you probably won't do that satisfactorily for the dollars mentioned). But it may not be needed at that size of building.

Naming a particular brand is not even worth doing at this stage. Its more about ascertaining your needs. The key thing is to work out what you need, what it will cost, then what steps to take in the short term. But you start with what you need, not what you can afford. I know how hard that is in a church environment that doesnt have huge dollars to throw around...

First thing that people on a forum like this can do is point out potential pitfalls and help you work out what you need.

If cost is an issue, leave the subs, and accept that you can't mic up kick and bass (at least not properly) for the time being. Buy a quality pair of top speakers and start working out how you're gonna buy subs down the track.

I take it you're in the US? 3 grand should get you a decent set of either powered mid highs or passive with an amp. Do you need a board as well?