Focusrite Saffire Pro 24?

[Verne Andru]

Anyone have any experience with this or similar Focusrite product?



http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com...-24?sku=523333

I got an email from them saying the newest version of the software [download] will let me set it up to run as a stand alone set of mic pre's in addition to using it as a FW interface to a DAW.

All the marketing bumpf says they make awesome mic pre's and their drivers are solid so I'm looking for a reality check.

[SYN]

Well, their drivers for the PC have been good with the Saffire I bought from them a couple years back. I still use it a lot - good pres, good conversion, nice hardware DSP for the price ($300, same as this unit.)

I think the 96kHz and above converter settings crapped out on me and I really wish they had packed a wall wart instead of me having to rely on bus power, but even then it still sounds really good. I probably could've gotten both of these taken care of at little or no cost.. I just don't usually record above 48kHz.

They seem to have updated the preamp topology a little, namely better EIN (less noise) and the like. I've never run into any real issues with the pres aside from the fact that they get a bit harsh past about 52 dB gain. They're fairly quiet, quick (fast op-amp?), neutral, and sort of have an open top end. Nothing amazing but certainly better than I expected.

Again, I'm on a PC and can't comment on anything Mac-wise as far as their products go. Still, I've had a good experience with my setup and would recommend them in similar situations.

[Verne Andru]

Thanks SYN. Much appreciated.

[samkokajko]

I have the bigger version of that and haven't had any issues. Sounds pretty good and the drivers are rock solid. I have never had it glitch a single time.

[SYN]

Originally Posted by samkokajko

I have the bigger version of that and haven't had any issues. Sounds pretty good and the drivers are rock solid. I have never had it glitch a single time.

Cue question: Mac or PC?

I've never had my Saffire crap out either - no odd drop-outs or pops/clicks. Ever. I liked the free VST bundle of the hardware DSP FX (compressor, EQ, amp sim.) They're vanilla in general but I use them every once in a blue moon.

[samkokajko]

Sorry, PC.

I haven't used the software plug-ins much but I do use the control software every time and it makes it work VERY well with my DAW (audition 3).

I have used it almost to it's fullest capacity and it is rock solid.

[Verne Andru]

Okay, I have one ordered. I am mainly looking for a couple of mic pre's for now, and surround mixing later. Some reviews state Robert Neve has worked on designing their preamps and I've not been able to find anything negative, so all's good.

[SYN]

Originally Posted by Verne Andru

Okay, I have one ordered. I am mainly looking for a couple of mic pre's for now, and surround mixing later. Some reviews state Robert Neve has worked on designing their preamps and I've not been able to find anything negative, so all's good.

He started Focusrite after working on the Amek stuff I believe. I'm pretty sure the Forte console was built via his hand, as well as some of the early ISA stuff (the distinctive blue/yellow color scheme was present even then.) Phil Dudderidge basically rebirthed the company after its dissolution in the late 80s. That's when Neve left and went onto other projects. Considering the lineage, it's not surprising to see Neve-esque circuit design or preamp emulation in the Liquid 4 Pre.

There's a good history here: http://www.studiobastille.com/pages/...iers/index.htm

People lambaste the company because of their sometimes inconsistent product design, funky drivers, and general value. I haven't bought any of their other products, but for what I got, I can't complain. I always attach the qualifiers: "It works for me on my system," "It's good/bad for the price," etc. because those are very important points in this price bracket. The preamps aren't going to compare to a Portico, for example. The converters aren't going to compare to a Lavry Gold. Those are unrealistic expectations based almost entirely off price alone. Past about one or two grand it's not so much quality as it is flavor, but at three or four hundred, you can find huge differences in products that are hardly subjective.

Anyway.. There you go. I do remember talking to John Hardy of Top Hat Recording who interned at Electric Lady during his career - one of the two locations which houses a Forte board. He said something about automation or digital meters and how those were rare on a console at the time, not entirely sure though. He also said it was really maintenance-heavy, as you might imagine.

[Verne Andru]

Not claiming to be an expert, but I've noticed an interesting trend over the years. I've been involved in studios since the 70's that have produced award winning records. By comparison to what we have available today for a few hundred dollars, a lot of the gear used those multi-million dollar facilities for those recordings just don't stack up. They were poorly shielded and routed and often the noise level [hiss/hum] was/is horrible by today's standards. Yes, there was some great gear, but a lot of it wouldn't cut muster today.

Not that long ago DSP technology was all the rage and commanded a huge premium - often more than the premium analog counterparts. Today people like Focusrite are making DSP products for a few hundred dollars.

Guess what I'm saying is, the more the technology advances the higher the bar gets but sometimes, I think, we lose sight of what we really "need" to get the job done as opposed to what's the "best" to get the job done.

I've been using an M-Audio USB Quattro over the years. At the time I bought it, it was considered "state of the art." Quite frankly, the recording quality I get from that unit is head and shoulders above what we were getting on 2" tape through the old gear. Today the Quattro is considered a piece of junk. It's still better than a mega-dollar Studer when fed the proper signal, IMHO.

[Verne Andru]

Got my unit the other day. Thanks again for the input.

It's a nice little unit. A couple quibbles - doesn't come with a printed manual and, even though it's a 1/2 rack size, Focusrite says:

As far as I know, there will not be rack ears for the Pro 24 (This was not incorporated into the design and a 1/2 size unit cannot be mounted in a full size rack). If you wish to use it in a rack, you will need to use a rack shelf to the hold the unit in the rack.

I find this funny as they promote that it's a 16 in and 8 out device and the only way to get the 16 inputs is to use their OctoPre which is:



a rack unit.

Driver/software install was relatively painless - multiple reboots aside [Windows]. I downloaded their latest software and one of the first things it did was update the firmware in the unit so it operates as a standalone unit.

One of the things that happened was their software would randomly lose contact with the hardware. I'd have to wiggle around with the FW connection, or try another port, to get it working again. Since my computer only has 1 FW controller and I'm already running a couple drives off it that giving the Saffire it's own FW controller [as the doc states] should solve the problem.

I was a bit confused about the Pro 24 and Pro 24 DSP being separate products - I thought they were the same but was wrong. The advantage to the DSP unit is you get onboard EQ, compression, limiting and reverb for another $100. Oh well. I do most of that in my DAW anyway, but DSP limiting/compression would be nice.

I won't be able to really test the unit with my DAW until I get another FW card but did check it out in standalone mode. To my ears the mic pres are very nice. More than enough gain with no noise I could hear so far. The tone is "warm" in that it's EQ'd a bit to the bass side, which is fine.

Those are my first impressions FWIW. Thanks again.

[Inazone]

I bought the Pro 24 DSP, but am just in the process of getting my hardware set up, so I can't comment on the quality. I did plug in some headphones to check out the virtual monitoring, and it's very cool if not especially useful. I bought the DSP version so that I could have at least some basic utility features whether recording on my main desktop or "jam session" laptop.

[SYN]

Originally Posted by Verne Andru

Got my unit the other day. Thanks again for the input.

It's a nice little unit. A couple quibbles - doesn't come with a printed manual and, even though it's a 1/2 rack size, Focusrite says:

As far as I know, there will not be rack ears for the Pro 24 (This was not incorporated into the design and a 1/2 size unit cannot be mounted in a full size rack). If you wish to use it in a rack, you will need to use a rack shelf to the hold the unit in the rack.

I find this funny as they promote that it's a 16 in and 8 out device and the only way to get the 16 inputs is to use their OctoPre which is:



a rack unit.

Driver/software install was relatively painless - multiple reboots aside [Windows]. I downloaded their latest software and one of the first things it did was update the firmware in the unit so it operates as a standalone unit.

One of the things that happened was their software would randomly lose contact with the hardware. I'd have to wiggle around with the FW connection, or try another port, to get it working again. Since my computer only has 1 FW controller and I'm already running a couple drives off it that giving the Saffire it's own FW controller [as the doc states] should solve the problem.

I was a bit confused about the Pro 24 and Pro 24 DSP being separate products - I thought they were the same but was wrong. The advantage to the DSP unit is you get onboard EQ, compression, limiting and reverb for another $100. Oh well. I do most of that in my DAW anyway, but DSP limiting/compression would be nice.

I won't be able to really test the unit with my DAW until I get another FW card but did check it out in standalone mode. To my ears the mic pres are very nice. More than enough gain with no noise I could hear so far. The tone is "warm" in that it's EQ'd a bit to the bass side, which is fine.

Those are my first impressions FWIW. Thanks again.

Good to hear so far. They also sell a non-DSP version of the original Saffire, the LE, for about $50 less. I figured it was worth a little extra cash to have my options open.

The amp sim, compressor, and EQ ran in real time with no audible latency. You can only run two out three of these FX on each channel at time (so either compressor+EQ or compressor+amp sim, though you could do that for both channels at the same time - 4 hardware DSP modules at once, which goes to a lower number at higher sampling rates.) They also give you a decent reverb on the direct monitor return, which I ended up using a lot since all you had to do was grab a slider in the software interface. The hardware DSP modules were inserts and not monitor returns, so they got recorded.

Additionally, all of these modules were available for free in VST form if you wanted to use them in post. It was a nice extra. I haven't used them much because I don't find their characters to be complementary to what I'm usually working on, but I have gotten some nice effected (if not realistic) sounds out of the amp sim. The compressor is fast and transparent, as is the EQ. I could easily use the former during tracking - I just don't tend to compress often at that stage.

[SYN]

By the way, as much as I've been satisfied with my Saffire, they do tend to inflate I/O numbers and really give you more outs than you need. My unit has a whopping 8 1/4" outs, a SPDIF in and out, and a MIDI in and out. There are two headphone monitors on the front.

I'm not sure what I would've preferred.. Maybe one or two XLR outs so I don't have to buy extra cables for higher range monitors? Maybe some insert points? Something better than 8 (often totally unused) outs.

[Verne Andru]

The Pro 24 comes with 6 outputs which is perfect for surround mixing - 5.1 anyway.

From what I've been able to tell of their MixControl software, they're really focusing on you being able to create multiple customized mixes for tracking and playback. You can configure a set of stereo outs for the control room and different mixes for different performers, etc. I can see that logic working well in a studio setting.

It would be really nice if you could configure the ports for either input or output - that's a really nice feature on my Quattro. It has 8 balanced 1/4" phone jacks which can be setup as 4 in/4 out, 6 in/2 out, etc. Since they have the ability to "flash" the hardware to change how it functions [the latest version of their software does this to add standalone functionality] I'd guess it's possible they could add it if they were so inclined.

The DSP would be nice primarily for limiting as it's pretty easy to push the Saffire into clipping from my brief tests. Since nobody uses digitally clipped recordings, I'm not sure why that hasn't become a standard feature by now.

I tend to use DAW plugs for other effects, particular Waves for EQ and compression and an impulse driven reverb. I also got the Focusrite VST plugs but haven't cracked them open as yet.

[SYN]

Originally Posted by Verne Andru

The Pro 24 comes with 6 outputs which is perfect for surround mixing - 5.1 anyway.

From what I've been able to tell of their MixControl software, they're really focusing on you being able to create multiple customized mixes for tracking and playback. You can configure a set of stereo outs for the control room and different mixes for different performers, etc. I can see that logic working well in a studio setting.

It would be really nice if you could configure the ports for either input or output - that's a really nice feature on my Quattro. It has 8 balanced 1/4" phone jacks which can be setup as 4 in/4 out, 6 in/2 out, etc. Since they have the ability to "flash" the hardware to change how it functions [the latest version of their software does this to add standalone functionality] I'd guess it's possible they could add it if they were so inclined.

The DSP would be nice primarily for limiting as it's pretty easy to push the Saffire into clipping from my brief tests. Since nobody uses digitally clipped recordings, I'm not sure why that hasn't become a standard feature by now.

I tend to use DAW plugs for other effects, particular Waves for EQ and compression and an impulse driven reverb. I also got the Focusrite VST plugs but haven't cracked them open as yet.

Huge waste of outputs on a lower-end interface that doesn't go to separate headphone amps.

[Verne Andru]

Originally Posted by SYN

Huge waste of outputs on a lower-end interface that doesn't go to separate headphone amps.

I believe they are line level outs which you can send to anything. If you're saying they should build multiple headphone amps into the unit, I think that would be cost-prohibitive from a manufacturing POV.

I'm doing a film project which requires surround which requires 6 outputs, so it's perfect for my needs. It's the reason I went with this unit and not just the pair of dedicated mic pre's I need right now for tracking.

[SYN]

Originally Posted by Verne Andru

I believe they are line level outs which you can send to anything. If you're saying they should build multiple headphone amps into the unit, I think that would be cost-prohibitive from a manufacturing POV.

I'm doing a film project which requires surround which requires 6 outputs, so it's perfect for my needs. It's the reason I went with this unit and not just the pair of dedicated mic pre's I need right now for tracking.

Then it's a coincidence. There aren't really a huge amount of choices in that price range that offer their quality regardless of the outs.

If they cut sample rates, SPDIF, MIDI, optical, and reduced the number of 1/4" outputs, maybe they afford a couple extra pres. But I don't know if the unit could buffer that...