I talked to Tim from Bareknuckles and one of the dealers.

[DVaz]

The best BK for AiC and Tool is the holy diver. Its about as far from the PK as you can get in the BK metal pickups.

There is definitely a lot of PK hype here. Its like one person that people listen to tried it, liked it, now everyone is harping on about it regardless of whether its the best pickup for the job.

[DVaz]

Originally Posted by grunge782

I kind of knew this was next.

The pickup is broken man.

I babied the hell out of it and for the last time yes I wired it correctly. In fact I wired it only to 1 volume pot to eliminate any problems.

Really the only way to know for sure is I would have to get another Painkiller, which I'm not paying for.

Your pickup was fine, or at least I'm as sure of that as I can be from a description on the internet. I've heard/felt (in playing them) the sort of thing youre talking about. Its quite uncompressed, but very hot, but that makes you play that much harder and it doesnt feel (or sound quite as much) like youre playing a high output pickup. You are, its just not as compressed as high output pickups normally are.

This seems to vary from player to player/ear to ear. I find its the 4th hottest BK, after the c-pig, warpig, and c-bomb, in that order. Some find it to be right behind the c-pig.

[grunge782]

Originally Posted by DVaz

Your pickup was fine, or at least I'm as sure of that as I can be from a description on the internet. I've heard/felt (in playing them) the sort of thing youre talking about. Its quite uncompressed, but very hot, but that makes you play that much harder and it doesnt feel (or sound quite as much) like youre playing a high output pickup. You are, its just not as compressed as high output pickups normally are.

This seems to vary from player to player/ear to ear. I find its the 4th hottest BK, after the c-pig, warpig, and c-bomb, in that order. Some find it to be right behind the c-pig.

I know it is fine, "high output" is relative to other pickups. It doesn't exist in high output by itself unlike some argue cough cough...

People tout it as being able to do anything. To be honest, I think everyone likes it because they can overgain their amps without feeling like their tones are too muddy or scooped.

[DVaz]

Originally Posted by grunge782

I know it is fine, "high output" is relative to other pickups. It doesn't exist in high output by itself unlike some argue cough cough...

People tout it as being able to do anything. To be honest, I think everyone likes it because they can overgain their amps without feeling like their tones are too muddy or scooped.

Perhaps. This local fascination with the PK is quite odd. Over at BK we recommend all sorts for all sorts, here its like its the only thing. I suspect that someone that people normally listen to extolled its virtues and now we have bandwagon jumpers

[kmanick]

Originally Posted by SG-DAWG

That is the dealer i talked to,he said get a painkiller.

Well Nick does have a BK return policy, you can swap it for another one if you don't like it.
I've heard the painkiller in sereral guitars. I liked it but I didn't love it.
I like the NailBomb and the Holydiver better.
Nick actually has a 7 string Rebel Yell (the only one that I know of) that sounds killer too.

I only have experience with the BK 7's. I've never played any of their 6 string pickups.

[EdgeOfDarkness]

PK is hotter than the nailbomb...FYI

[SG-DAWG]

Originally Posted by kmanick

Well Nick does have a BK return policy, you can swap it for another one if you don't like it.
I've heard the painkiller in sereral guitars. I liked it but I didn't love it.
I like the NailBomb and the Holydiver better.
Nick actually has a 7 string Rebel Yell (the only one that I know of) that sounds killer too.

I only have experience with the BK 7's. I've never played any of their 6 string pickups.

Ok guys i ordered a Motorcity hellbaby for this guitar. I didnt like the fact if i wanted a nickle cover i had to wait a "few weeks".If i didnt like the bk they said then id have to wait a few weeks in between each one, and like it or not i dont have that kind of time to wait.

[JamesPeters]

Originally Posted by grunge782

I kind of knew this was next.

The pickup is broken man.

I babied the hell out of it and for the last time yes I wired it correctly. In fact I wired it only to 1 volume pot to eliminate any problems.

Really the only way to know for sure is I would have to get another Painkiller, which I'm not paying for.

I'm not saying you broke it or wired it incorrectly. I'm saying it's possible the pickup isn't working properly and mentioned a few reasons including shipping damage. If a pickup is smacked hard enough the parts can come loose since most of them aren't anchored down; they're held in by wax and sometimes pressure from the bobbin/baseplate screws (or if polepieces stop magnets/spacers from moving).

I wouldn't expect you to buy another Painkiller, especially if you want a sound that has more midrange thickness like so many other common high output pickups.

Believe it or not, we agree on most things in these regards. I'm not trying to upset you.

Originally Posted by grunge782

I know it is fine, "high output" is relative to other pickups. It doesn't exist in high output by itself unlike some argue cough cough...

I didn't argue that at all. I've used more pickups than you would probably realize, in more guitars than you might realize. I'm not saying this to brag, but to let you know where I'm coming from. I'm not particularly proud of how much screwing around I've done with pickups and guitars, but at the very least I have a wide base of anecdotal experience from which to draw reasonable conclusions, and help others with their guitar/pickup choices.

The Painkiller is a high output pickup when compared to most other pickups. The only pickup I've used which had stronger output was an old Duncan Livewire pickup. The output of the Dimarzio X2N and Gibson 500T were close from what I could tell though (and the sound has similarities to each of those pickups). The only other BK pickups I've used however are the Nailbomb and Miracle Man, so if BK has higher output pickups I wouldn't have tried them to compare with the Painkiller.

If you want to argue that the Painkiller is a "weak" pickup in general, here's what makes the most sense: if your guitar isn't resonating strongly in the frequencies the pickup would accentuate most, the pickup can sound "weaker" than it should. I explained this in part with my observations about using the Painkiller in darker/boomier guitars. It doesn't make the pickup "weak" but it does explain why it doesn't work in some guitars like people expect. On the flipside of that coin, I've used a Dimarzio Humbucker from Hell a number of times (single-coil sounding humbucker, medium output at most) and in one particular guitar it sounded really powerful. The same H from H which I'd used in a dozen other guitars where it sounded weak/bright, but suddenly in one guitar it sounded full/punchy. Does this mean I'd say the H from H is a "full/punchy" pickup? Well that wouldn't be a good observation since most times it doesn't have that effect. I couldn't even guess as to what guitars it would work like that in the next time around, since it was just a fluke it turned out that way in that one guitar. So relatively speaking (as you want me to do), I'd have to call the H from H a "weaker output" and brighter sounding pickup. With the Painkiller, I'd have to call it a stronger output pickup.

Originally Posted by grunge782

People tout it as being able to do anything. To be honest, I think everyone likes it because they can overgain their amps without feeling like their tones are too muddy or scooped.

I agree with you on this 100%. Just so you know, I'm not using the Painkiller anymore. It was overkill in my guitars, so strong in output it was difficult to get subtlety when I wanted it. It worked out well in my roommate's guitars though (I owned two PKs and he got them after I changed my mind). I sold a third to a customer of mine in Alberta; he had posted about it in another thread.

Originally Posted by DVaz

Perhaps. This local fascination with the PK is quite odd. Over at BK we recommend all sorts for all sorts, here its like its the only thing. I suspect that someone that people normally listen to extolled its virtues and now we have bandwagon jumpers

Generally speaking, if a number of people here say something is "super high gain", then it's going to get a bunch of attention until things settle down and it ends up in the hands of only those who really like it.

By the way, if you work for Bare Knuckle you should mention that in your profile signature.

[Cookie Monster]

So when it comes to BK's, which one would be most like an EMG 81, and which one would be most like an 85? From what I've read so far, I'm guessing that the MM is closest to the 85, but I'm not sure.

[superflyinmonke]

Originally Posted by JamesPeters

I agree with you on this 100%. Just so you know, I'm not using the Painkiller anymore. It was overkill in my guitars, so strong in output it was difficult to get subtlety when I wanted it. It worked out well in my roommate's guitars though (I owned two PKs and he got them after I changed my mind). I sold a third to a customer of mine in Alberta; he had posted about it in another thread.

With what James has used and his ability to work with you to find the right sound, you won't be steered astray. How James and Tim differ with their business comunications is that Tim will tell you which BK Pickup you'd most like, where-as James will tell you what amp you're after, even if it's not his build.

I know you said what pickup you ordered. Just thought I'd throw this out there.

I guess I should get out of the way before this pissing match starts back up...

[grunge782]

Originally Posted by JamesPeters

I'm not saying you broke it or wired it incorrectly. I'm saying it's possible the pickup isn't working properly and mentioned a few reasons including shipping damage. If a pickup is smacked hard enough the parts can come loose since most of them aren't anchored down; they're held in by wax and sometimes pressure from the bobbin/baseplate screws (or if polepieces stop magnets/spacers from moving).

I wouldn't expect you to buy another Painkiller, especially if you want a sound that has more midrange thickness like so many other common high output pickups.

Believe it or not, we agree on most things in these regards. I'm not trying to upset you.



I didn't argue that at all. I've used more pickups than you would probably realize, in more guitars than you might realize. I'm not saying this to brag, but to let you know where I'm coming from. I'm not particularly proud of how much screwing around I've done with pickups and guitars, but at the very least I have a wide base of anecdotal experience from which to draw reasonable conclusions, and help others with their guitar/pickup choices.

The Painkiller is a high output pickup when compared to most other pickups. The only pickup I've used which had stronger output was an old Duncan Livewire pickup. The output of the Dimarzio X2N and Gibson 500T were close from what I could tell though (and the sound has similarities to each of those pickups). The only other BK pickups I've used however are the Nailbomb and Miracle Man, so if BK has higher output pickups I wouldn't have tried them to compare with the Painkiller.

If you want to argue that the Painkiller is a "weak" pickup in general, here's what makes the most sense: if your guitar isn't resonating strongly in the frequencies the pickup would accentuate most, the pickup can sound "weaker" than it should. I explained this in part with my observations about using the Painkiller in darker/boomier guitars. It doesn't make the pickup "weak" but it does explain why it doesn't work in some guitars like people expect. On the flipside of that coin, I've used a Dimarzio Humbucker from Hell a number of times (single-coil sounding humbucker, medium output at most) and in one particular guitar it sounded really powerful. The same H from H which I'd used in a dozen other guitars where it sounded weak/bright, but suddenly in one guitar it sounded full/punchy. Does this mean I'd say the H from H is a "full/punchy" pickup? Well that wouldn't be a good observation since most times it doesn't have that effect. I couldn't even guess as to what guitars it would work like that in the next time around, since it was just a fluke it turned out that way in that one guitar. So relatively speaking (as you want me to do), I'd have to call the H from H a "weaker output" and brighter sounding pickup. With the Painkiller, I'd have to call it a stronger output pickup.



I agree with you on this 100%. Just so you know, I'm not using the Painkiller anymore. It was overkill in my guitars, so strong in output it was difficult to get subtlety when I wanted it. It worked out well in my roommate's guitars though (I owned two PKs and he got them after I changed my mind). I sold a third to a customer of mine in Alberta; he had posted about it in another thread.



Generally speaking, if a number of people here say something is "super high gain", then it's going to get a bunch of attention until things settle down and it ends up in the hands of only those who really like it.

By the way, if you work for Bare Knuckle you should mention that in your profile signature.

I am fully aware of how many guitars you put it in. I believe it was 8, or somewhere around there. I'm not questioning that, one person can try 1000 guitars, they still are going to have one formulated perception of it.

"The only other BK pickups I've used however are the Nailbomb and Miracle Man, so if BK has higher output pickups I wouldn't have tried them to compare with the Painkiller."

I find the MM to be much heavier than the Painkiller. Have you tried the C-Warpig? To me that is hot.

Also you don't agree with me 100 percent. You got rid of the Painkiller because it is too hot, I don't use it because it isn't hot enough.

And from what I understand about the Painkiller, it is too thick in the midrange and felt like it lacked anything else. And are we talking about low mids or high mids here?

And in terms of the Humbucker from Hell example, that would mean that all three guitars I tried it in made it sound weak. It wasn't a fluke guitar like you had the rare example with that pickup.
I tried it in 2 mahogany guitars which Tim suggested and I had it in a basswood which is tonally the opposite.

Maybe the pickup is messed up, but even from the multiple clips I have heard of it, it sounds RELATIVELY weak to me.

[JamesPeters]

Originally Posted by grunge782

And from what I understand about the Painkiller, it is too thick in the midrange and felt like it lacked anything else. And are we talking about low mids or high mids here?

I tried it in 2 mahogany guitars which Tim suggested and I had it in a basswood which is tonally the opposite.

Maybe the pickup is messed up, but even from the multiple clips I have heard of it, it sounds RELATIVELY weak to me.

To me the Painkiller sounds fairly "clean" with an emphasis on highs and lows. I guess if it emphasizes mids, it emphasizes upper mids if anything (although that could just be how my guitars sound, not so much the pickup...it's hard to tell). It didn't sound very rich throughout the midrange like a Dimarzio Super Distortion for instance (or EMG 85). If you've tried the Dimarzio X2N or Gibson 500T, those are two pickups I think sound similar to the Painkiller. The power the Painkiller has is more about making the sound of the guitar louder, almost as though it's plugged into an EQ pedal with the gain slider turned up. So if your guitars have a lot of mids, that's probably what got pushed most with the Painkiller when you might've wanted more highs and lows. In the darker/boomier guitars I tried the Painkiller in (not mine, but friends' guitars) the Painkiller became virtually uncontrollable in the lows and very round sounding.

Mahogany and basswood share similarities in sound and have differences, and some pieces sound different from others. My all-mahogany Ibanez for instance sounds quite midrangey and bright (while my all-mahogany Yamaha sounds relatively dark, as a person might expect). Tim can only recommend what might work under average circumstances based on what people generally think of certain wood types, so I'm sure he meant well but it's more about how the pickup works for each individual guitar. It's clear in your case it didn't work well for you. It arguably worked better for me but with how resonant my guitars are, things got crazy. My roommate's guitars are more average for output and resonance so they really work well in those guitars. I'm pretty sure both are basswood guitars, being Ibanez RGs with fairly standard features.

[DVaz]

James, no, I dont work for bare knuckle, I meant over at the BK forums.

[Eric Hellstyle]

the painkiller is the middiest pickup I've ever tried
it's definitely similar to the 500t, but the 500t is bassier, way more compressed and very muddy
the painkiller is a very clean pickup, and maybe that's why I didn't like it as much as the other BK ceramics
the Miracle man is also very clean if compared to a 500t, x2n or sh-6, but it has a nice grind through heavy distortion and no mud like those pickups
that amount of compression makes a lot difference in the perception of what we usually miscall output
the painkiller has a very strong output, but it's not compressed at all
the alnico warpig, for example, is more compressed, but as hot as the painkiller

[phatgirl]

Originally Posted by SG-DAWG

Ok guys i ordered a Motorcity hellbaby for this guitar. I didnt like the fact if i wanted a nickle cover i had to wait a "few weeks".If i didnt like the bk they said then id have to wait a few weeks in between each one, and like it or not i dont have that kind of time to wait.

Cool. Looking forward to reading your thoughts on the Hell baby versus the Solution.

[SG-DAWG]

Originally Posted by phatgirl

Cool. Looking forward to reading your thoughts on the Hell baby versus the Solution.

Ill let you know.

[Sheik_Yerbouti]

It's interesting that most people here are equating Jerry's tone with really hot pups. As far as I'm aware, Jerry uses Seymour JBs in his G&Ls, and stock pups (57 Classics & Burstbuckers, I've read) in his Les Pauls, neither of which are really overly "hot" pickups, certainly nowhere near as hot as something like a 500T (the least favorite pickup I've ever owned!).

You guys sure you're walking down the right road in your tone search?

[sleepeatplay]

Originally Posted by Sheik_Yerbouti

It's interesting that most people here are equating Jerry's tone with really hot pups. As far as I'm aware, Jerry uses Seymour JBs in his G&Ls, and stock pups (57 Classics & Burstbuckers, I've read) in his Les Pauls, neither of which are really overly "hot" pickups, certainly nowhere near as hot as something like a 500T (the least favorite pickup I've ever owned!).

You guys sure you're walking down the right road in your tone search?

Very well put. Honestly, I ask my tech for his opinion, he is a hell of a lot more accurate in his picks than I am. Every guitar I own has different pickups for that reason, hence a better tone variety. Just sayin.

[Vyke Odin]

Originally Posted by SG-DAWG

They both said to try the painkiller ,even though i was hell bound on a miracle man.Ive always been a emg 81 guy and told them so,i told them i was under the impression the MM was a shot at the ZW tone since they named it MM.They told me that I would like the PK more and the MM was a smoother more low mid tone and the PK was tighter clearier and more high mid tone.I told them i was going for the BLS,AIC and Tool tone.They both said go with the painkiller.IDK

Try it if your gut is telling you to. If you don't like it, then I will trade you two pickups for it if you don't like it! I have a BG Hellabucker that is brand new, btw. I personally think that if you are after AIC, BLS, and Tool, you will want a pickup with an Alnico V magnet. The Painkiller is my favorite pickup ever. But my application for it is much much different than yours. If I were up in standard or even drop D tuning, I wouldn't use the PK personally. I would use either the Hellabucker or a Tom Anderson of some sort...not trying to make a sale here. But for what you want, there is likely a better option. Both Cantrell and Jones use Alnico V JB's if I am not mistaken. BLS? don't know, and never will.