picking out vocal harmonies - Harmony Central Musician Community Forums

Still.ill · 10-11-2009, 07:35 PM

recently i got the beatles in stereo box set and have been listenin to their early albums a lot--- is there anyway so i can instantly hear the 2 harmony vocals--- right now i can only "hear" the lead line--- does anybody know what i mean?

without having to get my guitar and trying to figure it out

grace_slick · 10-11-2009, 09:21 PM

Ah, do you mean you want to know what notes the vocals are? Like, you can hear in your head and recognise what note the lead / main note sung is, but want to also know the harmonised note? I don’t know what to tell ya, but if you sing the harmonised note, you can work out how far it is from the lead note and go from there, right? (sorry if this is completely off track)

You lucky thing, getting a Beatles box set. My partner is obsessed with the Beatles and ordered her mono box and stereo box in August and is STILL waiting for them!

OverdrivenEL34s · 10-11-2009, 09:53 PM

practice singing along and focusing on the harmony vocal line i guess can help. it can take a lot of trial an error at 1st but once you catch on it will be easier and easier to figure out the harmony lines. some beatles songs are three part harmonies or lead vocal line and two part harmonized backing parts etc or mix.

are there any particular examples of songs you are trying to figure out harmony parts to at the moment?

Still.ill · 10-11-2009, 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OverdrivenEL34s

practice singing along and focusing on the harmony vocal line i guess can help. it can take a lot of trial an error at 1st but once you catch on it will be easier and easier to figure out the harmony lines. some beatles songs are three part harmonies or lead vocal line and two part harmonized backing parts etc or mix.

are there any particular examples of songs you are trying to figure out harmony parts to at the moment?

tell me why

Still.ill · 10-11-2009, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grace_slick

Ah, do you mean you want to know what notes the vocals are? Like, you can hear in your head and recognise what note the lead / main note sung is, but want to also know the harmonised note? I don’t know what to tell ya, but if you sing the harmonised note, you can work out how far it is from the lead note and go from there, right? (sorry if this is completely off track)

You lucky thing, getting a Beatles box set. My partner is obsessed with the Beatles and ordered her mono box and stereo box in August and is STILL waiting for them!

exactly-- the harmony notes

grace_slick · 10-11-2009, 11:30 PM

Well...sing along with the song...the first time you sing the bit you're wanting to focus on, sing the lead vocal. Does it sound nice and in tune when you sing it? If so, good. Now rewind and sing that bit again, but now find with your ears and sing the the harmony vocal. Does that too sound good, and does it feel like you're really singing along with John & Paul & George? If so, then you've got it and you can sing the harmonies. It just takes time to get your ear and mind used to hearing them in a way that you can sing them easily. Also, even if there are no harmonies on some parts of the song, try making one up, and singing the harmony part. If John's singing alone on a note, try being Paul or George and singing a harmony part along with it.

And then I guess the next step to finding out what you're actually singing is to sing the lead note, then sing the harmony note, and then work out how many "steps" is inbetween. Sing a scale from the lead note up to the harmony note.

And yes, some songs (and some Beatles songs) have more than just 2 part harmonies. Some have 3 or even more if they've double-tracked themselves. (other bands like the Beach Boys and more recent band, the Fleet Foxes, use over 5-6 or more harmonies. Sounds gorgeous!)

Johnny_B · 10-12-2009, 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Still.ill

recently i got the beatles in stereo box set and have been listenin to their early albums a lot--- is there anyway so i can instantly hear the 2 harmony vocals--- right now i can only "hear" the lead line--- does anybody know what i mean?

without having to get my guitar and trying to figure it out

Most harmonies are in 3's.

The root harmony would be the main line that is sung.
Then the subsequent harmonies are the 3, and 5, although they could be singing 4ths, 5th even 7ths.

Listen real close, if you have a piano or keyboard, this will definitely help faster.

theroan · 11-03-2009, 01:10 PM

I got harmoniesn by singing the wrong notes until it sounded right. Now, I can just hear where I need to be.

romvert · 11-03-2009, 09:47 PM

With harmonies one either has a good year, or some harmony/theory knowledge. Knowing your triads helps. On the more intricate ones, an instrument - preferably a piano, goes a long way.

grace_slick · 11-03-2009, 11:00 PM

I know nothing of triads or rules of harmonisation as such. I just harmonise when singing along with things for fun.

I do all different ones. And if I make up my own song, the harmonies come easily.

Remedy · 11-04-2009, 02:17 AM

listen to the Beatles song Twist n Shout.

The bit where it goes AAAAHHHH, AAAAAHHHH , AAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH, AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH

practice that and you'll start to hear it

davidsol · 11-04-2009, 11:01 AM

It can be quite difficult to determine which is the lead and which is the harmony on the early Beatles songs, even McCartney has stated this.

Rule of thumb is that Lennon almost always sang a low harmony on McCartney songs and McCartney sang a high harmony on Lennon songs so the lead vocal would be with whoever wrote it, in this case Lennon for Tell Me Why.

It's actually more difficult to find the low harmony than the high as it's always more difficult to hear, at least in my experience. It just takes practice to get your ear attuned.

If you can, try recording yourself singing the lead and then singing over the lead vocal and trying to get the harmony. I recently bought a looper and that is really good for trying out harmonies as you can instantly hear back what you just sang. I found it improved my harmonies after about an hour's practise, especially as you can layer different harmonies (above and below) over the same lead vocal just to find them and practise. Using an instrument to get the first note helps a lot at the beginning.

Hope this helps.

david

ToneGrail · 11-09-2009, 11:19 PM

OP: A little bit of basic music theory will help. While some people are just natural at it (like grace_slick), unfortunately from what you describe, you don't appear to fall in that category. Rather, you're one of those who actually need to think about the interval between the notes until it becomes muscle-ear memory.

However, you need to know how to recognize relative intervals before you even attempt to do this or you will find yourself spinning your wheels trying to "find" the harmony or more likely, floating to the lead vocal line.

Basic music theory instruction will teach you how to do this. If you don't know how to do this, then you can do the trial and error approach as others in this thread have suggested, but it really helps if you actually know what you're doing and you have trained yourself to recognize relative pitch.

grace_slick · 11-10-2009, 02:32 AM

I don't actually think it really matters which harmony or voice is the "lead" one. They're all valid and required for the harmony to exist? The lead to me is whichever note starts first I guess.

sorocknroll · 11-10-2009, 10:29 AM

Not all songs are going to follow such rules, anyway. The Beatles, particularly, use a lot of "alternate melodies" instead of harmonies. Personally, this is my favorite type of bgv.

As far as hearing it, I know there is software that can pull each line of music out, depending on how its mixed. I would guess that the Beatles were mixed long enough ago that it may still be possible.

EightString · 11-10-2009, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grace_slick

I don't actually think it really matters which harmony or voice is the "lead" one. They're all valid and required for the harmony to exist? The lead to me is whichever note starts first I guess.

This isn't necessarily true. One part will usually "stand out", whether it is mixed that way deliberately, or the notes/singer themselves "attract" the ear as the "lead" vocal part.

Listen to "Seven Bridges Road" for a good example of this. The "lead" part is the one with the first note on the root.

There are stars in the Southern sky
1 ........... 7 .....6 4 . 6 ... 5 .... 3 2 1

Even though this is a 3 part harmony section, the "melody" is clearly audible.

10-11-2009, 07:35 PM	#1
Still.ill Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 1,096	picking out vocal harmonies recently i got the beatles in stereo box set and have been listenin to their early albums a lot--- is there anyway so i can instantly hear the 2 harmony vocals--- right now i can only "hear" the lead line--- does anybody know what i mean? without having to get my guitar and trying to figure it out __________________ love is suicide

10-11-2009, 09:21 PM	#2
grace_slick Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Gold Coast, Australia Posts: 898	Ah, do you mean you want to know what notes the vocals are? Like, you can hear in your head and recognise what note the lead / main note sung is, but want to also know the harmonised note? I don’t know what to tell ya, but if you sing the harmonised note, you can work out how far it is from the lead note and go from there, right? (sorry if this is completely off track) You lucky thing, getting a Beatles box set. My partner is obsessed with the Beatles and ordered her mono box and stereo box in August and is STILL waiting for them! __________________ Duke of Prunes

10-11-2009, 11:30 PM	#6
grace_slick Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Gold Coast, Australia Posts: 898	Well...sing along with the song...the first time you sing the bit you're wanting to focus on, sing the lead vocal. Does it sound nice and in tune when you sing it? If so, good. Now rewind and sing that bit again, but now find with your ears and sing the the harmony vocal. Does that too sound good, and does it feel like you're really singing along with John & Paul & George? If so, then you've got it and you can sing the harmonies. It just takes time to get your ear and mind used to hearing them in a way that you can sing them easily. Also, even if there are no harmonies on some parts of the song, try making one up, and singing the harmony part. If John's singing alone on a note, try being Paul or George and singing a harmony part along with it. And then I guess the next step to finding out what you're actually singing is to sing the lead note, then sing the harmony note, and then work out how many "steps" is inbetween. Sing a scale from the lead note up to the harmony note. And yes, some songs (and some Beatles songs) have more than just 2 part harmonies. Some have 3 or even more if they've double-tracked themselves. (other bands like the Beach Boys and more recent band, the Fleet Foxes, use over 5-6 or more harmonies. Sounds gorgeous!) __________________ Duke of Prunes

11-03-2009, 01:10 PM	#8
theroan Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Toronto Posts: 452	I got harmoniesn by singing the wrong notes until it sounded right. Now, I can just hear where I need to be. __________________ Gear: Les Paul Studio MIA Strat MIA Telecaster Mesa/Boogie Mark V Mesa/Boogie 2x12 Vert MXR Micro Amp Silverkiss Mk.2 EB Volume Line 6 M13 Bass Rig 1999 MIA Fender Jazz Bass 1997 MIA Fender Precision California Series Mesa/Boogie Walkabout Scout "12

11-03-2009, 09:47 PM	#9
romvert Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: MI Posts: 477	With harmonies one either has a good year, or some harmony/theory knowledge. Knowing your triads helps. On the more intricate ones, an instrument - preferably a piano, goes a long way. __________________ Too much of anything is no good.

10-11-2009, 09:53 PM	#3
OverdrivenEL34s Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 1,761	practice singing along and focusing on the harmony vocal line i guess can help. it can take a lot of trial an error at 1st but once you catch on it will be easier and easier to figure out the harmony lines. some beatles songs are three part harmonies or lead vocal line and two part harmonized backing parts etc or mix. are there any particular examples of songs you are trying to figure out harmony parts to at the moment?

11-03-2009, 11:00 PM	#10
grace_slick Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Gold Coast, Australia Posts: 898	I know nothing of triads or rules of harmonisation as such. I just harmonise when singing along with things for fun. I do all different ones. And if I make up my own song, the harmonies come easily. __________________ Duke of Prunes

11-04-2009, 02:17 AM	#11
Remedy Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Qld, Australia. Posts: 2,461	listen to the Beatles song Twist n Shout. The bit where it goes AAAAHHHH, AAAAAHHHH , AAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH, AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH practice that and you'll start to hear it

11-04-2009, 11:01 AM	#12
davidsol Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 9	It can be quite difficult to determine which is the lead and which is the harmony on the early Beatles songs, even McCartney has stated this. Rule of thumb is that Lennon almost always sang a low harmony on McCartney songs and McCartney sang a high harmony on Lennon songs so the lead vocal would be with whoever wrote it, in this case Lennon for Tell Me Why. It's actually more difficult to find the low harmony than the high as it's always more difficult to hear, at least in my experience. It just takes practice to get your ear attuned. If you can, try recording yourself singing the lead and then singing over the lead vocal and trying to get the harmony. I recently bought a looper and that is really good for trying out harmonies as you can instantly hear back what you just sang. I found it improved my harmonies after about an hour's practise, especially as you can layer different harmonies (above and below) over the same lead vocal just to find them and practise. Using an instrument to get the first note helps a lot at the beginning. Hope this helps. david

11-09-2009, 11:19 PM	#13
ToneGrail Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 732	OP: A little bit of basic music theory will help. While some people are just natural at it (like grace_slick), unfortunately from what you describe, you don't appear to fall in that category. Rather, you're one of those who actually need to think about the interval between the notes until it becomes muscle-ear memory. However, you need to know how to recognize relative intervals before you even attempt to do this or you will find yourself spinning your wheels trying to "find" the harmony or more likely, floating to the lead vocal line. Basic music theory instruction will teach you how to do this. If you don't know how to do this, then you can do the trial and error approach as others in this thread have suggested, but it really helps if you actually know what you're doing and you have trained yourself to recognize relative pitch. __________________ Removing the mids from the guitar is tantamount to removing the lows from the bass, removing the presence from the cymbals, and removing the ammo from a gun

11-10-2009, 02:32 AM	#14
grace_slick Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Gold Coast, Australia Posts: 898	I don't actually think it really matters which harmony or voice is the "lead" one. They're all valid and required for the harmony to exist? The lead to me is whichever note starts first I guess. __________________ Duke of Prunes

11-10-2009, 10:29 AM	#15
sorocknroll Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Columbus Posts: 221	Not all songs are going to follow such rules, anyway. The Beatles, particularly, use a lot of "alternate melodies" instead of harmonies. Personally, this is my favorite type of bgv. As far as hearing it, I know there is software that can pull each line of music out, depending on how its mixed. I would guess that the Beatles were mixed long enough ago that it may still be possible. __________________ Please, Hammer, don't hurt 'em.

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