Effects to monitors

[faidlor]

Alright, thanks a lot guys. Once again I appreciate all your help! I do agree that no fx to monitors would be a much better approach and it will be the way I will run my monitor setup for live use. However I will try it with effects just for kicks.

[Phil Clark]

Just be careful not to blow your horns.

[tlbonehead]

Originally Posted by jgthatsme

Wow. I played my first paying gig when I was just 12 years old. It's now been 32 years of playing out, and for about the past 24 years it's been with musicians and vocalists with talent levels ranging from a bit above average to among the best you could hope to find. I've worked with some great vocalists. My current vocalist sang backup on a grammy nominated CD. I'm a musician first, sound man second, but I have never worked with any vocalist who didn't want some effects in their monitors.

Coaster - are you saying the monitors should be totally dry? Not even a little reverb or delay? My singer says it's way harder for her when the monitors are dry.

Really? Most of the better vocalists I've been around have wanted none to maybe just the lightest splash of reverb.

[modulusman]

Faidlor, I also own an Onyx 1640. Have you tried running your effects through a channel? If you have an open channel you can return your effects send through it instead of the effects return. This way you can use the channel EQ to help with feedback.

[jgthatsme]

Originally Posted by tlbonehead

Really? Most of the better vocalists I've been around have wanted none to maybe just the lightest splash of reverb.

Yes. I don't mean crazy effects. I mean like what you said - just a hint of reverb. No delay, chorus, flange, etc. et al...

[dangordan]

Originally Posted by Jerry007

Personally, I'd love to have whatever effect is being used FOH routed back to my monitor - It would really help to ensure optimum mic technique, BUT it's isn't worth the hassle of dealing with feedback...

Dry will help you with mic technique and hitting notes more accurately. Giving false confidence is doing no one any favors.

[faidlor]

Originally Posted by modulusman

Faidlor, I also own an Onyx 1640. Have you tried running your effects through a channel? If you have an open channel you can return your effects send through it instead of the effects return. This way you can use the channel EQ to help with feedback.

Modulusman, what do you mean? You mean go from mic to effects unit to mixer? Or do you mean using the insert in instead of the aux?

[SteinbergerHack]

What he means is to route from the Aux send to the FX unit, then take the return from the FX and bring it back into a standard channel line in. That way, you can route the FX wherever you want it to go. Caveat: Make sure that you don't accidentally turn up the Aux send that you're using for the FX - that will create a feedback loop.

[faidlor]

Oh, okay. Thanks!

[modulusman]

Originally Posted by faidlor

Modulusman, what do you mean? You mean go from mic to effects unit to mixer? Or do you mean using the insert in instead of the aux?

No, Come out of the Aux send from the board into the input of your effects unit. Then come out of the effects unit back to the board into an unused channel strip instead of an Aux return. This way you can use the channels strips EQ. If you want effects in a monitor you then turn up the the Aux send on the channel your effects unit is plugged into. You can also control the amount of effect by the channel fader. WARNING- If say for example you are using AUX6 for your effects do not turn up AUX6 on the channel strip that your effects unit is returned to this can cause feedback. It also helps to have the wet/dry level on your effects unit all the way wet. I know my explanation here is confusing maybe someone else can chime in and explain it better. I hope this helps.

[Jerry007]

Originally Posted by dangordan

Dry will help you with mic technique and hitting notes more accurately. Giving false confidence is doing no one any favors.

I'm suggesting that if you can hear the effects being applied, you can adjust your mic technique accordingly, and make the most of it. Just like a guitarist "plays to his tone", a good singer will do the same, adjusting technique to work with (or compensate for) mics, EQ, reverb, etc. A talented singer can play the PA like an instrument to some degree. Of course, certain types of effects can be problematic for obvious reasons...

Disclaimer: I'm above-all-else, a vocalist.

But I'll readily admit that this might not be the case with less experienced singers, and the generally-accepted practices stated elsewhere in this post are the best bet...

[Coaster]

a good singer will do the same, adjusting technique to work with (or compensate for) mics, EQ, reverb, etc.

but only according to what they hear in their wedges, which will never be what the audience hears.

[faidlor]

Originally Posted by modulusman

No, Come out of the Aux send from the board into the input of your effects unit. Then come out of the effects unit back to the board into an unused channel strip instead of an Aux return. This way you can use the channels strips EQ. If you want effects in a monitor you then turn up the the Aux send on the channel your effects unit is plugged into. You can also control the amount of effect by the channel fader. WARNING- If say for example you are using AUX6 for your effects do not turn up AUX6 on the channel strip that your effects unit is returned to this can cause feedback. It also helps to have the wet/dry level on your effects unit all the way wet. I know my explanation here is confusing maybe someone else can chime in and explain it better. I hope this helps.

Okay, I think I know what you are saying. Aux send 6 to fx unit back to channel 1 line in (that's where my mic is). Make sure Aux send 6 level is at zero or there will be feedback. Control effects level from fx unit and fader.

[Coaster]

Originally Posted by faidlor

Okay, I think I know what you are saying. Aux send 6 to fx unit back to channel 1 line in (that's where my mic is). Make sure Aux send 6 level is at zero or there will be feedback. Control effects level from fx unit and fader.

no.

[Shaster]

Originally Posted by faidlor

Okay, I think I know what you are saying. Aux send 6 to fx unit back to channel 1 line in (that's where my mic is). Make sure Aux send 6 level is at zero or there will be feedback. Control effects level from fx unit and fader.

You're getting closer but not quite. I often run my effects back to the last unused channels NOT back to where anything else is plugged in!!! So maybe ch.15 and or 16.

If you think of your FX return(s) as just another sound source, that might make things easier. Once again don't make a feedback loop by sending the channel strip FX return back into the FX send - big no no!

With this procedure even if you don't send effects to monitors (not all that advisable) you can clear up the FX by getting rid of bottom or low mid mud, making a didital delay more natural sounding by rolling off some highs etc. (as Coaster and others have already said).

[faidlor]

Another attempt, Aux send 6 to fx unit back to an UNSUSED channel line in. Make sure Aux send 6 level is at zero and mix level on fx unit all the way up. Control effects level from fader and channel strip eq? Is that right?

[Jerry007]

Originally Posted by Coaster

but only according to what they hear in their wedges, which will never be what the audience hears.

The MixWiz allows the internal effects to be routed to the monitors... It may not be what the audience hears, but at least it's the same effects patch in both the monitors and FOH.

As I stated earlier, I don't put any effects in the monitors, but it would be nice...

[MusicalSchizo]

A purely dry sound actually messes me up more than it helps.

Just a teeny tiny bit of reverb to remove that sort of direct SLAM you get from the monitor with each vocal phrase helps me sing with confidence and comfort.

But it's way drier than it would be in the mains...I can't stand a massive amount of effects in a monitor - you can't really hear yourself. You THINK you can, but you can't.

And as far as setup, Modulusman nailed it. Aux send -> FX unit set 100% wet -> one or two channels on the board (depending on whether stereo matters to you) which allows you not only to use the EQ on those channels, but to individually control how much reverb is sent to each monitor mix and the mains.
Brian V.

[modulusman]

Originally Posted by faidlor

Another attempt, Aux send 6 to fx unit back to an UNSUSED channel line in. Make sure Aux send 6 level is at zero and mix level on fx unit all the way up. Control effects level from fader and channel strip eq? Is that right?

I think you got it. Are you trying to do this at home. If so let us no if it is working. Shaster did a better job of explaining than I did in his post.

[georgestrings]

Originally Posted by dangordan

Dry will help you with mic technique and hitting notes more accurately. Giving false confidence is doing no one any favors.

This...


- georgestrings