How to succeed in the music industry?

[eventArgs]

Originally Posted by BlueStrat

Up to a point. But there reaches a time when getting a fallback is too late. I learned this the hard way, and now I'm approaching my mid-50s with shot knees, a bad back, and still stuck doing carpentry work for 20 bucks an hour with no possibility of retirement. I'm too old to go back to school, too old to switch careers, and what I have is what I'll get. I have friends my age retiring now and traveling Europe or wintering in the tropics.

My advice: get a degree in business or law or something useful, and then pursue music your heart's content. Having a fallback plan isn't half assed, it's smart. You'll be middle aged before you know it, and all those eggs you put in the music basket are liable to be long gone, unless you're very good and very lucky.

Changing careers is not always easy but it is always an option, regardless of age. When I did my degree there were plenty of people there in situations similar to yours. Sure there are sacrifices to be made (income, lifestyle, time), but it can usually be achieved if the will is there...

I would argue that a degree in anything is a good thing to have. If nothing else it demonstrates to employers that you can finish what you start. You'll also come out knowing a whole bunch of useful people (ie those that go on to be lawyers, accountants etc.) who will be able to help you out down the track.

Employers often don't care about the specifics of your degree so long as you can demonstrate competence in the area of work (with exceptions - medicine for example). I have a business degree and, whilst it's a good thing to have, I could have studied anything and I'd still probably be where I am now (web/database programmer). My employers have usually wanted to hire a degree-qualified person, but are not specific about which degree...

[Giorgi]

I saw this perspective exposed in this thread:

"If you get a degree in something else, like law, you will be making your music in a half-assed way."

I think it's just plain wrong. See, when I'm done with law I'll be 24-25, even if I don't do anything beforehand musically, I still have 10 years to go in terms of a "mainstream musical career". What I'm saying is: get your degree, once you got it focus 100% on music or take a job that allows you to do as much you need to do for your music. Basically, dont become a 100% career-lawyer straight away to pursue the potential money-making (and I'm sure if you're passionate you won't do this and will focus on music). Then if it doesn't work out after years of trying you will eventually be able to switch back into law and start working on a career path in that direction. Sure you'll be 30 and your career will just start but... seriously, it doesn't matter. At least you spent 5-8 years working towards the dream and you have nothing to regret, if anything you'll have tremendous life experience that some kids who go straight into their law career don't have.

This is my plan.

BTW - BluStrat, I know it's easy for us to say, but there are people of your age who do what you think is now almost impossible. Sure, it's hard and in the US it costs A LOT, but your current situation with no retirement plan sounds even worse... (at least to me, I don't know shit about suck when it comes to US, but from what I know they don't give out money for retirement that easy)

[Tom Siegel]

Originally Posted by richardmac

When you say you want a degree in music business, be aware that the business part is the most important part. If you would not consider a degree in Business, do not consider a degree in Music Business. Also, the degree will not get you a job. Being outgoing and busting your ass will get you a job. The degree will help get you the interview.

You CAN make a living in the music business. Musical instrument sales are up. People will always buy guitars. The best thing you could do right now is research the living hell out of ALL of the possible jobs in the music business, and find one that seems like it would be a good fit for you. People design new amplifiers. People write recording software. People fix and sell and build instruments. For every 1,000 kids out there who want to be rock stars, there's one kid off to the side saying "Someone is shooting that music video. Someone is editing the footage. Someone is doing the lighting for the video. I could do those things."

Getting a job/career is about finding out what skills you have that people are willing to pay money for. The job market for audio engineering sucks and it's only going to get worse. Do the research, pick a field or area where you have an interest AND where there are jobs, and bust ass and learn everything you can and position yourself to excel in that area. Do that and you'll be ahead of 99% of the other kids going to college for music business.

On the music side, write songs. Lots of them. Write all the time. And perform like mad. If you don't have a band, buy an acoustic and perform solo. Write like mad, perform like mad, repeat over and over. You'll get good at both. The best way to write successful music is to continually try to improve and get better, but you've got to gig. It makes you a much, much better songwriter and musician than you would be if you don't.

That's my two cents.

I like this post. The key is to get yourself into it hard.

I went to Berklee and it isn't quite what you may want it to be. It is a good school, don't get me wrong but it will not necessarily deliver you into a music career. There are a couple of things to be aware of when considering a degree from Berklee:

1) Berklee is a bit watered down at this point. They have been riding the name for some decades. There are some great teachers there and you can learn as much as you want to learn there. But you will have to dig for the information you want and wade through some that you don't want first.

2) Last I knew, Berklee did not offer a graduate degree. Why does this matter? Because one of the viable careers in music is teaching. This generally requires a graduate degree. So... what do Berklee grads who want to teach do? They teach at Berklee, as it is one of the few schools that does not require a graduate degree. The Berklee system has become so inbread at this point, they don't know how to teach anything but what falls into the "Berklee Program". Again, there are great teachers available who have other professional experience but you have to go looking for them.

3) There are other schools that will teach you to play better. Seems like every kid I knew that came out of the New England Consevartory, down the street from Berklee, was a much better player than the kids at Berklee (just my observation). Also check out Full Sail in FL. I don't know a whole lot about this school but I have heard positive things.

4) Since Berklee is a music school the primary focus is naturally on music. The general electives usually suck and other schools don't generally think all that highly of these courses either. What I am trying to say is that it is usually very hard to transfer from Berklee into another school. However, it is generally very easy to transfer from another school into Berklee. So one thing you might consider is attending another school first and then going to Berklee when you decide for sure that is what you want.

5) You don't need the degree. It is true that some people will say Ooo... you went to Berklee, Wow... but those people will not be the people that are hiring you. People in the industry already don't give Berklee a lot of weight these days. It may get you an interview or an audition. But it won't get you the gig. No matter what you will have to work you ass off in whatever you do.

Another little peice of advise... Spouses can really get in the way of your music career and so can kids. These things are awesome and I have both and wouldn't give them up for anything but just remember that when you compromise your time your career can take a hit. So be ready for all that.

Best of luck to you!

[Matximus]

The lawyer/performer thing seems like an odd combination. Having a fallback cuts both ways.

You could be spending all that time hitting the books honing your craft during those all-important years in your early 20s. Music is a young man's game and the best stuff is generally made by vagabounds untethered to wives... children... student loans...

Your options in life (and creative drive) tend to dimish drastically with every birthday.

But yeah - having a fallback plan is smart and practical.

Thing is pursuing a career as a performing musician or recording artist is an incredibly dumb and impractical thing to do. That's why it's so fucking rad.

[richardmac]

Originally Posted by Tom Siegel

1) Berklee is a bit watered down at this point. They have been riding the name for some decades. There are some great teachers there and you can learn as much as you want to learn there. But you will have to dig for the information you want and wade through some that you don't want first.

2) Last I knew, Berklee did not offer a graduate degree. Why does this matter? Because one of the viable careers in music is teaching. This generally requires a graduate degree. So... what do Berklee grads who want to teach do? They teach at Berklee, as it is one of the few schools that does not require a graduate degree. The Berklee system has become so inbread at this point, they don't know how to teach anything but what falls into the "Berklee Program". Again, there are great teachers available who have other professional experience but you have to go looking for them.

This is REALLY good information. I wasn't really aware of this. Very interesting.

You're also right about the wife/kids thing getting in the way - it probably does. Which is why there's no f*cking way I would have ever gone that route. To each his own, definitely.

Regarding another comment, about whether doing music part time is half-assed. I think people have some misconceptions about what it means to be a full time artist. Some folks think that what it means is you spend 40 hours a week writing songs and that's what makes you a "better artist." I don't think that's the case at all - I think you spend a lot of that extra time selling yourself, doing anything and everything you can do advance your career. The only people who write 40 hours a week are probably professional songwriters. Not saying full time artists don't spend more hours than me each week writing - I'm sure they do. But they also spend way way more time doing all the non-writing stuff. They have to.

[eventArgs]

Originally Posted by Giorgi

I saw this perspective exposed in this thread:

"If you get a degree in something else, like law, you will be making your music in a half-assed way."

For many people this will be true. Study is tiring if you really want to blitz a degree (...genii excepted). If all you want is the certificate at the end then, sure, you've got some time on your hands. But why bother with the degree if you just aren't that into the subject matter?

The reverse of the statement is also applicable for some: "If you're fully commited to making music, you will end up studying something else, say law, in a half-assed way."

Do we really need another generation of cynical, jaded lawyers that would rather be doing something else?

Originally Posted by Giorgi

I think it's just plain wrong. See, when I'm done with law I'll be 24-25, even if I don't do anything beforehand musically, I still have 10 years to go in terms of a "mainstream musical career". What I'm saying is: get your degree, once you got it focus 100% on music or take a job that allows you to do as much you need to do for your music. Basically, dont become a 100% career-lawyer straight away to pursue the potential money-making (and I'm sure if you're passionate you won't do this and will focus on music). Then if it doesn't work out after years of trying you will eventually be able to switch back into law and start working on a career path in that direction. Sure you'll be 30 and your career will just start but... seriously, it doesn't matter. At least you spent 5-8 years working towards the dream and you have nothing to regret, if anything you'll have tremendous life experience that some kids who go straight into their law career don't have.

A nice plan, but it's a bit optimistic in my view.

Let's assume it goes reasonably close to plan and you get your degree at 25. If you don't practice law professionally for 5-8 years then that leaves you with thousands of pages of legislation to catch up on. Why would a firm want to hire you (30+ years old, not up with recent legal thinking, no experience, questionable interest in law) over a 25 year old with a recent degree and a genuine interest in Law?

You'd be better off having a go at music until you lose the passion, then concentrate on a second career once you figure out what you actually want to do with your life.

[SYN]

Originally Posted by Pomerlaw

Wonderful post. And it doesn't have to be for a "living". Even if its a part time thing, you should ask yourself if its something you need or you just want to play the game because it looks cool to others.

Because it what?

What?

People go into music for the image alone? WHAT? God, I must be way the fuck out of touch.

[3shiftgtr]

I GOT IT!!!!

Go to MI for a year...get your chops and knowledge together...then go get a human-with-a-job degree at a university. Take what you learned at MI, and play as much as you can while you are going to the university. That'll be your part time job. Learn how to make part time money playing gigs....

Then when you graduate, you'll (hopefully) be ready for the workplace, and have some practical knowledge about music thing...and if things are going good in music, you'll know what to do! Thank God for mom and dad and their pocketbook....

Dangit, why didn't I think of that....

[Giorgi]

Originally Posted by eventArgs

For many people this will be true. Study is tiring if you really want to blitz a degree (...genii excepted). If all you want is the certificate at the end then, sure, you've got some time on your hands. But why bother with the degree if you just aren't that into the subject matter?

The reverse of the statement is also applicable for some: "If you're fully commited to making music, you will end up studying something else, say law, in a half-assed way."

Do we really need another generation of cynical, jaded lawyers that would rather be doing something else?


A nice plan, but it's a bit optimistic in my view.

Let's assume it goes reasonably close to plan and you get your degree at 25. If you don't practice law professionally for 5-8 years then that leaves you with thousands of pages of legislation to catch up on. Why would a firm want to hire you (30+ years old, not up with recent legal thinking, no experience, questionable interest in law) over a 25 year old with a recent degree and a genuine interest in Law?

You'd be better off having a go at music until you lose the passion, then concentrate on a second career once you figure out what you actually want to do with your life.

Compromise!

Of course a recent degree and full knowledge of the very recent legislation is better than a 5 year old degree, however it's something I'm willing to accept. Recently I talked to a lawyer (not asking about my plans or anything, he was just talking about his career in general). He said that when you're a lawyer (in France at least) you come out of University and you know whole lots of generalities, but once you start looking for a job, you shouldn't be scared to accept stuff that you studied for only a semester... Just saying that it's not as "catalogued" as you might think and studying up on a specific area isn't that hard. You've learned 100 years worth of law in 5 years at Uni, 5 years worth in a specific area won't take that long, of course you have to convince the guy that hires you.

Thanks for your post.

[eventArgs]

Originally Posted by Giorgi

Compromise!

Of course a recent degree and full knowledge of the very recent legislation is better than a 5 year old degree, however it's something I'm willing to accept. Recently I talked to a lawyer (not asking about my plans or anything, he was just talking about his career in general). He said that when you're a lawyer (in France at least) you come out of University and you know whole lots of generalities, but once you start looking for a job, you shouldn't be scared to accept stuff that you studied for only a semester... Just saying that it's not as "catalogued" as you might think and studying up on a specific area isn't that hard. You've learned 100 years worth of law in 5 years at Uni, 5 years worth in a specific area won't take that long, of course you have to convince the guy that hires you.

Thanks for your post.

Fair enough. I just get the impression that some think changing careers is like 'flicking a switch', when really it takes work and sacrifices to make changes down the road. That's not a problem so long as people are willing to make those sacrifices (mainly income and time I suppose), not everybody is.

People get used to their regular pay cheque and are reluctant to give it up to retrain or whatever, although this is the music biz so that shouldn't be a problem...