David Bunker Tension Free Neck: your opinion, expirience.

[mixolydian]

Hi all!
Subj.

Looks like owners of Ibanez USRG could tell me something (interesting or not) about that Bunker innovation.
Generally, if someone have tried guitars with that Tension Free Neck, please WRITE HERE !!!

How about dead spots, tonal characteristics, sustain, SOUND at all on guitars with such neck construction ?

Thanks !

[hiwaychild]

I have 2 trekers- a louis johnson bass and a tele style guitar with the tension free necks.
No dead spots at all- anywhere! kinda amazing.
Mine tend to be more on the tonal bright side- but nothing that the tone controls cant correct.
Sustain- in spades. At certain amp volumes- it would remind you of an organ- almost infinite when playing chords, and no need for compressor or other gizmos when playing leads/single notes ring true and long.
Different neck profiles- mine have semi-chunky and are extremely comfortable- very smooth movement up and down the back of the neck.
For me- these are super high quality necks that are in a class all their own. btw- the fretwork and nut on both was perfect.
hope this helps. Dave is a gem to work with when designing or ordering a guitar or neck- a fountain of knowledge and really stands behind his products.

[mixolydian]

2 hiwaychild
Thanks, brother !

Now can you tell me about how the headstock joins the neck ?
How adjustment is organized ?
Where is situated that PIN THRU THE NECK ?
Particularly how this "SYSTEM" is constructed, what parts are used, how it looks generally, etc. ?

Trus rod: Is it really 9mm(3/8 inch) thick?

Would you please post fotos of headstock, neck, their joinings, heel, adjustment of neck, etc. ?

They say that this innovate construction is patented. But I didn't find on th WEB neither number of patent nor content of it.

May be you know patent number or where to find it ?

[mixolydian]

Hey !!!

[mixolydian]

Up!

[PinchGirlsButts]

I have never owned a bunker guitar... felt a bunker guitar......heard a bunker guitar (besides the touch thing in clips)....... due to price.

But I will never forget his name. His company (bunker guitars) has some of the coolest innovations I've seen in a while.

I was a curious about his bridge designs and if they are worth their $100+ cost over my standard everyday common stock bridge. Anyways.

[mixolydian]

Up!

[Osmosis]

My old guitar teacher had one of those on his ibanez...it was a strange beast, it was actually a prototype allan holdsworth sig guitar, but the endorsement fell through and they never produced the guitar. Anyways, I never got to play the guitar so I can't really help.

[mixolydian]

Up!

[mixolydian]

Up!

[mixolydian]

Up!

[mixolydian]

Up!

[Bruce Bennett]

I met Bunker back in 1993-4 at a NAMM show when he was with PBC guitars.
They were marketing the "tension free neck system" back then.
I thought it was a super cool inovation.. But I also thought, at that time, no one would buy it.. 3-4 years later they shut down.

You can do a search for the PBC patent and you'll find just how it was constructed.

I recently had a used PBC bass come through the shop here, and I examed it ( took it apart)
The neck is basically 2 separate assemblies, I'll describe them one piece at a time for clarity sake;

The headstock;
imagine the headstock of a guitar that is cut off just before the nut. now take a piece of square steel bar about 3/8" square and epoxy it to the headstock in a small routed channel just under the peghead face veneer.
It sorta looks like a headstock on a stick.

The fingerboard/neck imagine the section of neck starting at the nut down to the last fret as one piece, that is hollow with a square routed hole in it that runs all the way through to the other end of the neck, under the fingerboard.

The headstock "stick" is inserted into the routed "tube-like" neck section.
now on the back of the neck where it would bolt on to the body, there is a routed "window" where you can see the end of the square steel rod and it has holes that are threaded and spacers that pass the tnesion from the rod to the body without pinching the neck wood ( maybe just a little pinching, just enough to keep it from moving freely.)
the routed "channel" in the neck section, is large enough to allow the rod to bend a pretty good amount before it touches the wood. the rod takes all the string tension and not the wooden neck section.
the idea being that if the wood never has to support the string tension than it can remain perfectly flat as it was machined at the factory, therefore allowing the fretting surface to be as true as possible.

I will say that the 2, I have played in my lifetime certainly played low and fast and had NO neck relief in them at all.

I truly think it's abetter idea.. but most folks get freaked out by it.
It sorta looks a little scary.

[TheGZeus,OnFire]

Dang, I like neck relief.

[mixolydian]

2 Bruce Bennet

Thanks. You had brought yet more clarity in my understanding of subject.

But it seems to me you are not right describing some moments :

" the routed "channel" in the neck section, is large enough to allow the rod to bend a pretty good amount before it touches the wood. the rod takes all the string tension and not the wooden neck section.
the idea being that if the wood never has to support the string tension than it can remain perfectly flat as it was machined at the factory, therefore allowing the fretting surface to be as true as possible. "


Heh... and what about this ?

http://www.trekerguitars.com/Necks/h...eck_works.html

If you say so (above), for what there is an RELIEF ADJUSTMENT screw and that instructions HOW TO MAKE ADJUSTMENTS OF RELIEF ?

Relief MUST be.
And routed channel must be NOT big. (otherwise the neck will dangle on rod at the nut region )
And the main idea is not perfectly flat neck but TO ELIMINATE DEAD SPOTS on guitar by reducing neck stress to the minimum.

You can get it from Bunker's or some other web sites.

Theese are some of my conclusions made after in-depth studing of all info that i found about subject.

[mixolydian]

2 Bruce Bennet

Can you tell me how big is an angle between the peg head and the neck ?
How nut is fixed on the rod ?

I thought thad rod must be screwed to the metal plate than metal plate is screwed to the peg head by 3-4 srews.
Isn't it ?

Bunker said there is a felt spacer between peg head and neck, what are dimensions of it ?

[Bruce Bennett]

I'm only describing what I have seen and heard more than 10 years ago.
My information was gathered at a large crowd in front of the PBC booth at the 1993 Summer NAMM show with about 30-40 people firing questions at them and they were doing their best to answer them as quickly as they could.
I'm quiet sure I have some of it wrong, But at the time. I understood that "relief" as we think of it, was something that was no longer needed with their system, Heck, it was a major selling point of their presentation.

the bass that I looked at a few months ago , I did not get to disassemble all the way down. only partially. so I couldn't do all the experimenting I would have liked.

I'm sorry, but I'm not the expert on this invention,

If you want ALL the real technical data. I would suggest you call Dave Bunker yourself and ask him. I'm sure he is quiet anixous to sell you a guitar and therefore will be more than willing to answer any questions you may have.

[ddbunker]

TENSION FREE tips:

I will try to answer any follow-up questions in a timely fashion.

The most frequent questions I get on Tension Free technology deal with adjustment factors. The main thing to remember is not to ever try to turn or adjust the pin on the down side of the neck at or close to the 17th fret. This can only be removed using a 1/16th inch allen wrench if the neck and the adjustment screw has been removed. The adjustment for the neck is on the back of the guitar or bass between the neck mounting screws. This requires a 5/32inch allen wrench to adjust. Turn counter-clockwise for relief and clockwise for back bow.

For all of you techs out there, here are a few tips to help you to perfection on Tension Free necks. If you have removed the adjustment screw and the pin mentioned above, you now can pull the headstock out of the neck. It looks like a weapon now but don't get carried away. If you have a neck which has too much relief when the rod is out, bend the bar at the mid point the opposite way (back bow) with about the same bend. Usually under 1/16th of an inch works although I've seen necks that required as much as 3/32 inch.

Now when you put the rod back in the neck you have probably taken out the relief. If not, turn the adjustment screw counter clockwise about 1/2 turn or more if needed. NOTE: When re-inserting the 1/16th inch pin make sure it is centered in the neck. The pin is usually 1/2 inch deep inside the neck.

Also be sure to have the felt strip between the head stock and the neck in place when you re-assemble your Tension Free neck. This felt strip is important to make sure there is no vibration between neck and head stock.

More info: http://www.bunkerguitars.com/whammy_bar.html#TENSION

And also: http://www.bunker-guitars.com/tf_neck.html

The neck is the backbone of a really great guitar or bass. Our necks use a 3/8" cold rolled steel bar to support the strings at the headstock, thus removing all string tension stress from the neck, leaving the neck free to resonate as it should.

This technological advantage eliminates dead spots, and provides much quicker response to the notes you play.

With a conventional guitar neck truss rod, the neck is actually compressed between points A and C. This, along with the string tension, kills the necks resonance at point B.

On a Tension Free Neck™, which is separated at B from the headstock, all of the stress is on the cold-rolled steel rod between A and C. The pin through the neck at point F secures the neck and fingerboard, leaving the stress on the steel rod at point C.

On the back of each neck, at D (on the heal), there is an access hole where you can adjust the neck to forward or back bow.

These necks can be retrofit to any guitar or bass.

The average Tension Free Neck for a guitar is $250.00, and for a 4 string bass $285.00. Retrofit at the factory is also possible.

When I was building and designing my first guitar in the mid 1950's, I worked for Boeing Airplane Co. as a production controller.

This job put me close to some of the finest engineers in the world. At one of our holiday parties I brought up some of the problems I had found with the conventional type truss rod with a group of structural engineers. These fine people decided help with the long-standing problems inherent to the old truss rod design.

In their off-hours these engineers, working on the Bomark Missile Project at the time, helped me design what would become the "Tension Free" Neck.

And that is how the Tension Free Neck™ was born.

[bravobolt]

For those of you who want to get a bunker i highly recommend it. I recently purchased a Bunker Bass. The design is amazing (white & black). And it it cost me less than $800. For the guy who mentioned the price as being one of the reason he haven't purchased one, i would just suggest that if you really want one, you can get a great deal online on sites such as ebay or even bunkers main site. There's always special going on, especially around the holidays. Check out Bunkers youtube channel & vids for more info: Bunker Youtube Vids

[erwin.zeez]

My ATK just came via UPS today. It is very nice, with only one gripe. The low B rattles on some of the frets no matter how high the action is. The other strings are all fine, which makes me think that the neck relief is not the problem. I need to get a good fret file and carefully reduce just the frets under the B, I think.

But the rest of it is awesome! I love the maple fingerboard, and the ash body has a great grain through the translucent blue/green/teal finish.

I didn't realize that the neck is literally separated by the brass nut. It is almost like the end of a headless steinberger, the way the brass piece covers the entire end after the fingerboard, and then the headstock is attached to that. Strange, but it sounds amazing... and I have only played it through my headphone amp sofar!

Looking at Dave Bunker's website, I wasn't sure if he was still in PA or if he was now on the west coast. I live in Philadelphia, which wouldn't be TOO far from the old place, if he is still there. I am eager to learn anything more I can on the Tension free necks.