Constructing a song once you've got the basics of it down...

[badgererer]

I wasn't sure whether to post this in songwriting or here, but then i get plenty of good advice here and over there it seems to be either "rate my finished song" or "rate these lyrics".

This is for solo efforts really, as it doesnt really apply to a band.

You know the feeling. A bit excited, you've got a song down, you think it might be good, and it comes to recording. Really all you've got is a chord structure, lyrics, melody, and the time has come to get it down.

How do you go about deciding how the song will be built?

As in, in its most basic form and as an example, when will the drums come in? When will the bass come in? when to put a bit of lead guitar in? How does this come to you generally?

I find i record the song once, then realise about a million things I want to go differently, and I always end up rerecording the songs another 2-3 times.

How about you?

[Will Chen]

I think what you're referring to is arranging. Some musicians are good at it, others rely on the vision of producers. If you have the skill, then the song will dictate to you what is necessary from solo acoustic to full orchestra. Experiment and remember, as musicians will perform a song countless times after cutting the track songs will normally grow beyond the scope of the original recording (or shrink if you can't afford to hire, say, a horn section).

[Lee Knight]

Sometimes the song IS the way it was created. Acoustic guitar and voice and everything else built on that. BUT...

Sometimes it's nice to let it become what it really wants to become. Try this...

Record the guitar part (or key, or whatever) first to a click, just as a reference. Then track the lead vocal. Now...

Just print a CD of the lead vocal and click. Drive around listening to just that and see if it doesn't want to become something else. Take notes on ANY ideas that cross you mind. Don't judge the ideas as they come to you. Jot them down. Now...

Go over you notes "offline" and see what floats. Sometimes it's a mistake to paint your song into a corner before you've had a chance to let it speak. You've just got to create the evironment to let it come to you.

[gsHarmony]

Just print a CD of the lead vocal and click. Drive around listening to just that and see if it doesn't want to become something else. Take notes on ANY ideas that cross you mind. Don't judge the ideas as they come to you. Jot them down. Now...

Go over you notes "offline" and see what floats. Sometimes it's a mistake to paint your song into a corner before you've had a chance to let it speak. You've just got to create the evironment to let it come to you.

This is good advice.

I would add that you should never have one specific approach. Sometimes, I like to mix up the songwriting process some. For example: after coming up with a small idea don't immediately try to write the rest of the song. Maybe play around with arrangements a little, maybe play around with standard composition techniques (retrograde, inversion, etc.). My point is that sometimes one element (i.e. the arrangement) of a section can inspire the rest of the song. By exploring these possiblities as early as possible, you expose yourself to many different end results which you can choose from.

[Billster]

You have to determine the style you are after and orchestrate accordingly.

The drums come in when you want the drums to come in. :D What kind of drums? Soft or loud? Accents or a groove?

Do you want a driving feel, or a laid back feel? Agressive tones or sweet? Harmony or disonnance?

Any song can be assembled in any style. The satisfaction of that may not be the same. Some songs are better served as rock than calypso - or vice versa. The style helps dictate the arrangement, but choosing the right stylistic elements is a starting place.

[Brittanylips]

A good thing to do is have a paper outline of your song, and then just walk around the room and sing it in real time. Try and imagine what you'd like to actually hear as you imagine it in your head.

The problem with many arrangements is that they are generated by people's fingers rather than their heads - as soon as you start playing your instrument, what you are used to playing (your usual riffs, limitations, cliches, etc.) will drive the arrangement. Better to have an idea of what you really want to hear first, before you start filling in the blanks, and then figure out how to make your vision a reality.

-Peace, Love, and Brittanylips

[darins]

I am constantly recording ideas - these range from just a few bars to an entire tune in rare cases, but I almost always start with just a chord progression, nothing else.

As mentioned above, I generally burn many of these (30-40 or so, since they are often small) to a disc and listen to them constantly during my commute, to get a feel for what a song should be. I have recorded ideas before thinking something would be an excellent soft ballad, only to realize after time that I liked it better with loud drums and crunchy guitars - you may need to give your tunes time to sit in your head so you can do them justice (yes I know I'm repeating the advice of those above me).

I am a bit scatter-brained sometimes and I've found I often get great results when I screw up (miss my drum entrance cue, only to realize the extra beats of silence can be worked into something much cooler). If you let your project breathe, and don't confine yourself to your initial view of a tune, you may be pleased with the results.

Or you could be one of those guys who writes brilliant tunes in 10 minutes, that's fine too ;)

[Joe Cole]

Originally posted by Lee Knight
Record the guitar part (or key, or whatever) first to a click, just as a reference. Then track the lead vocal. Now...

Just print a CD of the lead vocal and click. Drive around listening to just that and see if it doesn't want to become something else. Take notes on ANY ideas that cross you mind. Don't judge the ideas as they come to you. Jot them down. Now...



wow.... great way to put a new spin on a song idea. Thanks Lee.

[Billster]

Originally posted by Brittanylips
A good thing to do is have a paper outline of your song, and then just walk around the room and sing it in real time. Try and imagine what you'd like to actually hear as you imagine it in your head.

The problem with many arrangements is that they are generated by people's fingers rather than their heads - as soon as you start playing your instrument, what you are used to playing (your usual riffs, limitations, cliches, etc.) will drive the arrangement. Better to have an idea of what you really want to hear first, before you start filling in the blanks, and then figure out how to make your vision a reality.

-Peace, Love, and Brittanylips

Good idea.

---------------------------------

On another note, some songs present themselves practically fully formed, as if springing from the head of Zeus. Others are like a chunk of raw marble that needs to be studied carefully before you start hammering with your chisel to make it into something.

[numrologst]

There are multiple options you have. I will give you my personal experience though.

When started working with my buddies band this is what happened for the new album.

First he would write the song. Starts out as acoustic guitar and vocals on his multitracker. Then he records some shitty drums and keyboard. Then the band gets together and they start to mess around with the new song. This version goes to tape.

Then I take what is recorded and listen to it for 2-3 days. Load it into my machine and start building upon what has already been done. I will add different bass line or different drum patterns or different piano parts. Then I bring it back to the band and get their opinion. 90% of the time they like it and the studio pre-production starts.

We start to track everything with click. Drums then Bass, Keyboard, Guitars, other instruments, and vocals last.

Then we our producer flies in everything is retracked to 100% of what it should be.

Then from here it is spontaneous transformation. Add trumpet here, violin there. Cut instrumentation here, bring it back at point x. Try this harmony. Cut everything but drums and piano for outro. Just let it flow.

[numrologst]

Now when I record my own stuff, it is a totally different story. My own albums are done my way, the long way. Every song develops over time. Usually at least 10 transformations before mixing.

For me it starts as acoustic guitar, electric guitar, or piano and vocals.

After I have the idea then i start recording the backbone guitar and bass parts. I rarely use a click.

So I record guitar, then bass. Piano follows. Then I will do a scratch drum track.

Then I have the basic rhythm section tracked to 100%. Then I will try things from different angles. I will add more complex guitar layers. Different basslines if neccessary. And try different piano parts.

At this point I consistently put the new tracks onto my ipod and listen to them whenever I feel like. Usually certain things will dawn on me.

At this point I tend to overdo the rest of the instrumentation. I will start layering sounds like crazy. I usually have a 16 track count or so. Then I start doing other instruments and end up with 40+ tracks.

I will have horns, strings, hand percussion, shakers, tambourines, harmonium, toy piano, harmonica, sitar, lead guitars, vibraphone. Muted guitars, delays, choruses, funky sounds, noise, organ, noise, and more shit.

By this time I record or have friends come in and sing harmonies and I retrack the drums.

I am usually up to 70+ tracks by now for an average song.

I will usually leave a song alone for a week or two while I am working on others. But at any time I am usually working on 3 or 4 songs. After a week or two I will come back and mute everything but the basics and make any corrections as necessary. The important part is to listen with semi-fresh ears, keeping the spontanaeity. Then I will se it aside.

Once i repeat the process over and over for each song... I typically have 12-18 songs w/ 70+ tracks.

I then take a break from the project for a little under a month. It usually takes me a few months for tracking. I then enlist the help of my knowledgable friends to help me in the mixing process.

I mix in big studios not in my home studio. At this point I am fresh. I also have usually 2 friends and my friends producer in to help.

Now i start to peel down the layers 70 tracks become 60, 60 become 50, 50 become 40. 40 become 45, 45 becomes 50. And so on. Until I have the BS tamed and my vision starts to come out of the mix.

At this point sometimes I have to retrack a few things, but nothing major. But i usually spend 4-5 hours per song. Then i have my last bits of inspiration. The last tiny things become what they are. And then mixdown.

Then I send it out to be mastered and thats it. It is frozen in time.


But the most important thing is to realize that the options and possibilities are endless. It starts with the player, then instuments then tracking and so on. There are spontaneous moments of inspiration. There are so many things you can do. So many ideas for everything. You just have to let it flow and believe that this is what your mind is telling you to do. Just constantly redo redo redo redo retry try this do this not this do this lightbulb its over. Just be creative. be influenced. Let people help you. get ideas from everywhere. If everything sounds mechanical. Lose the click and let it flow. Don't worry about mess ups or unwanted sounds. There is beauty in the squeaks of sustain pedals in piano. Or a momentary buzz of the guitar. There is brilliance in inperfection, beauty in chaos.

[rim]

I would normally just jam with the song idea. If I hear something I like, it becomes part of the song.