Behringer

[Knottyhed]

I'm in the market for a PA system and notice that Behringer under-cut the competition by quite some way. Is this because their equipment sounds like ass and is completely unreliable or is it ok?

[fastplant]

I have a 24 channel Behringer board. It sounds great. But one of the channels died on me. Other than that, I've had no issues with it.

[Terry Allan Hall]

The few Behringer products I've used have been very well made.

[Badside]

Honestly, Behringer PA gear is pretty much the worst you can get, even Peavey is better.

The reason is cheap is twofolds: they copy the design from other companies and then build it with cheaper components.

You can buy a complete Behringer kit if you want, but one day or another you'll want to move upward and will lose a lot of money because it has no resale value.

Having gigged a lot over the last couple of years, I've played through numerous PAs and have learned to hate two words: Behringer and Mackie. Whenever we see one of these words somewhere, something will sound wrong. I particularly hate their powered monitors, they have no guts and too much highs (Behringer being the worst one since it's a copy of a Mackie with cheaper components), the preamps on their board are shrill (I know I own one!). I prefer Yorkville mixer and powered speakers much more, and they are far from being that good (except the higher-end models).

There are things you can get away with (I always carry a Behringer DI box, just in case... it might be noisy but not enough to be a problem in a gig, and it runs off phantom power!), but for the core of your system (mixer, amps and speakers), do invest the additionnal money in something better!

It's not that much more money to get something better. For the board you might look at Soundcraft's E serie, or the M (which I think has built-in FX), or Allen & Heath (Mixwizard or PA). You might also want to look at the used market: for the same price as a brand new Behringer mixer (which has no resale value), you can buy a quality board which you can sell for the same price if you don't like it.

Powered mixers are quite handy, but if possible, it's better to have everything separate (if your power amp dies, you still have a usable mixer!).

Anyway, Yorkville makes very reliable gear, and you might also want to take a look at Yamaha and Carvin. There are others of course. If you want to buy Behringer, go ahead, but remember that you cannot get "filet mignon" at a BigMac price.

[riffdaddy]

We had a Behringer power amp fail on us at a gig this weekend. Thirty minutes later, the Behringer mixer failed us also. Thankfully the equipment was rented.

[Cortfan]

We have a Behringer PMX2000 powered mixed that we use for rehearsals and small gigs. It has beed fine for the last 3 years. We always carry backups, and use the Bose PAS sticks the majority of the time now. If you buy Behringer, buy the extended warranty, because if it breaks, they will give you a new one and throw the broken one in the dumpster. The Behringer sounds good for smaller gigs. YMMV. Our other gear is JBL, Yamaha, QSC, Peavey, Sennheister, Shure, etc.

[LosBoleros]

We had a beringer PA mixer. I thought it was OK until I bought a Mackie mixer and our band all of a sudden sounded great. From what I understand, the difference is in that the Mackie has great pre-amps in each channel. I agree that the beringer is really a low end product.

[fuzzball]

Originally posted by Hardtailed
Honestly, Behringer PA gear is pretty much the worst you can get, even Peavey is better.

.

I would not use Peavey as a negative, Peavey makes some great gear. I think they make great products that sustain a lot of punishment. I have never had a single Peavey unit fail (amps, guitars, mixers, monitors). They have all been very good (and at a good price).

[riffdaddy]

Originally posted by fuzzball


I would not use Peavey as a negative, Peavey makes some great gear. I think they make great products that sustain a lot of punishment. I have never had a single Peavey unit fail (amps, guitars, mixers, monitors). They have all been very good (and at a good price).

Man, I couldn't disagree more. Every piece of Peavey equipment I've ever used has eventually failed (usually multiple times). I'll bet you'll find a lot of people have the same experience.

[Hollow body]

I have two Behringer mixers, both are slowly dying, a channel at a time. I agree with Hardtailed: stay away from this stuff. I've never had any trouble with Peavey PA gear; I'm presently using (and loving) a Yamaha powered mixer.

[B Money]

my band recently bought a small PA consisting of a Carvin powered mixer (PA1200), low-end Peavey FOH speakers (PV215), and Behringer monitors (F1220).
The Carvin died after about 8 hours, but they replaced it and so far the new one has been great through 2 gigs.
The Peavey speakers are OK. Not great, but not terrible. If I could replace any piece of the system it would be those. They sound flat and somewhat muddy.
The real suprise has been the Behringer monitors. They sound great, and are built very heavy duty. I would not hesitate to buy a couple of Behringer FOH speakers similar to these to replace those Peaveys.
However, I don't think I would ever trust a Behringer mixer.

[Knottyhed]

So the general consensus seems to be that Behringer amps and mixers don't last 5 minutes and sound crappy unless at low volume? Does anyone have anything more to add about their speakers/monitors?

[Badside]

Originally posted by riffdaddy


Man, I couldn't disagree more. Every piece of Peavey equipment I've ever used has eventually failed (usually multiple times). I'll bet you'll find a lot of people have the same experience.

Yeah, Peavey builds tought shit... that sounds like ass! :)

[Badside]

Originally posted by Knottyhed
So the general consensus seems to be that Behringer amps and mixers don't last 5 minutes and sound crappy unless at low volume? Does anyone have anything more to add about their speakers/monitors?

The guy above seems to be satisfied, but frankly the worst monitors we've ever "experienced" on stage were powered Behringers. They're only thing worse than Mackies. I'd rather have an old Peavey passive monitor with some old but powerful power amp than those pos.

[fastplant]

Originally posted by LosBoleros
We had a beringer PA mixer. I thought it was OK until I bought a Mackie mixer and our band all of a sudden sounded great. From what I understand, the difference is in that the Mackie has great pre-amps in each channel. I agree that the beringer is really a low end product.

Interesting, I've had quite a few Mackie mixers and I think my Behringer sounds better. Maybe I have a higher end Behringer, it was a bit pricey.

[Badside]

Originally posted by fastplant


Interesting, I've had quite a few Mackie mixers and I think my Behringer sounds better. Maybe I have a higher end Behringer, it was a bit pricey.

As I mentionned earlier, Behringer and Mackie preamps are very similar. Behringer is know for "reverse engineering" competitiors product. Their preamps are basically the same with just a few components changed so they can get away with it (and Behringer cuts more corner to build them).

But honestly, it's not like Mackie is a reference... They're good at marketing, but their products are average at best.

[fuzzball]

Hardtailed,
Not every Peavey product is excellent, they do have some products such as their cheaper monitors that are decent at best, but most people will tell you that Peavey gear holds up great and most of it sounds good. I have used a lot of their gear and never had a problem. Some of their cheaper monitors sound a little muddy, but in some casses it is operator error. I think if you ask around you will find that every brand has some complaints, and Peavey has a good track record for good quality products. By the way don't base you opinions on rented gear (not saying you are), rented gear is never a way to judge quality. People beat the crap out of rented gear.

[superiorparts]

i would dissagree with anyone saying that peavey gear is cheap stuff and fails often. i've been using peavey pa gear for the last 15 or so years. alot of our speakers are homemade with peavey woofers in them. we use a lot of peavey amps. although we have had some failures on peavey gear(maybe 3 times in 20 years) i am well pleased with their product. just about all manufactures make professional grade and cheaper grades. if you buy cheaper you run the risk of more failures. or sound man who has been running sound for 25 years and is an electronics technician for morrison brothers music and charles hall music in mississippi is featured on page 96 in the new peavey monitor magazine with some equipment of his. read the article. he can tell you how good peavey equipment is.


kevin james

www.monkeyboneband.com

[Badside]

Originally posted by fuzzball
By the way don't base you opinions on rented gear (not saying you are), rented gear is never a way to judge quality. People beat the crap out of rented gear.

No don't worry, I'm talking about owned stuff. All the rental places I deal with would never rent Peavey gear (honestly). Yorkville and Yamaha? Yes some of them. Actually, we've got a kick ass sound once with a "medium" Yamaha board (I thought it was a big one until another soundman showed up with a Yamaha PM3000C at another gig, now THAT is a big board) and Yorkville speakers which were composed of powered "tops" (4 of them) and passive subs with something like a Crown or QSC power amp. What was in the rack was pretty low key (Behringer and Samson compressors and effects) but the guy behind the board was a genius, the sound was kicking.

Our preferred soundman is the guy with the PM3000C, he use Drawmer compressors and gates, Lexicon and Yamaha reverb (even has a TL tube mic preamp) and higher-end EV speakers (with dual 12" in the tops instead of the typical 15": much better mids, and dual 18" subs). Not a single powered speaker or monitor. He provides us with 4 monitor mixes (a rare occurence it seems!) and have 31 band Ashly EQ on all mixes plus the mains. He also has a plethora of cool mics (like 5 MD421 "just in case"). But the whole thing is close to a 1/4 M$ (really!). So I guess it's not the kind of PA that a band would own!

[LosBoleros]

Originally posted by fastplant
Interesting, I've had quite a few Mackie mixers and I think my Behringer sounds better. Maybe I have a higher end Behringer, it was a bit pricey. I guese as with everything, all brands have different level of units.


There has been alot of defense for the Peavey stuff. I too owned a Peavey Mixer that worked fine for 10 years. Rugged, yes indeed. Quality sound, not so much.

It's hard to tell the difference sometimes because you are not in a situation where you are comparing two systems side by side.

I know now that with my Mackie 1604 vlz everything sounds crystle clear and the side effect of that is that you do not need to turn things loud to be heard. Every channel has it's distinct sound. I play my guitar real low in the mix and yet people tell me that they can hear every little thing. It seems that our mixes are now more forgiving.

[LosBoleros]

Originally posted by Hardtailed


As I mentionned earlier, Behringer and Mackie preamps are very similar. Behringer is know for "reverse engineering" competitiors product. Their preamps are basically the same with just a few components changed so they can get away with it (and Behringer cuts more corner to build them).
One of the first things you notice is that the mackie board weighs about three times what the berringer does. I am using my mackie for recording now and the results are great.

I remember once I opened up for another group and we each had our own PA set up. ours was Berringer and theirs was mackie. When we made an anouncement with ours, it was hard to understand. When we switched to the mackie, it was clearer and the message was delivered much better.

It seems that most music stores in my area have berringer as their low end stuff and mackie as one of the high end stuff. If Berringer does make a quality unit, at least the stores around here are not selling it.

[Badside]

Originally posted by LosBoleros
One of the first things you notice is that the mackie board weighs about three times what the berringer does. I am using my mackie for recording now and the results are great.

That's because they use cheaper components

[tom_s252]

I think you have to judge Behringer gear on a case by case basis. Some of it is great, some of it is awful, and all of it is inconsistent as far as QC is concerned.

My Behringer FX unit is brilliant; it sounds fantastic and is still working perfectly, 2 years and many gigs on. However, it appears to be the exception to the rule in terms of reliability and quality control.

In my experience, their mixers are great for people starting out as they give a good feature set for the price and enable people to start putting a system together. They are not, however, comparable to A&H, Mackie or Soundcraft in terms of quality and longevity.

Their rack gear (compressors, gates, FX) seems to be better, and there's been less reverse engineering going on as well. Their compressors are becoming more and more ubiquitous amongst UK hire companies, I see more and more of it about at festivals and gigs.

I wouldn't recommend their speakers, though. They're well made, carpeted and solidly put together, but they sound mushy and indistinct. A friend of mine had one of their wedges arrive dead, and another fail soon after.

Just my personal experiences, hope it helps.

Tom

[riffdaddy]

My poor experiences with Peavey have mostly been with their power amps, though I can't say I've been all that pleased with their mixers. FOH speakers and monitors are sort of a different thing altogether. I've found decent Peavey cabs and I've found junky ones too. I wouldn't discriminate with anything other than my ears when it comes to speakers/monitors because it's damn near impossible to break them.

[fuzzball]

I have used many Peavey power amps and several of there mixers, I have not had any problem with any of them. I have also had good experience with their monitors.

[Blackwatch]

I own a Behringer PMX 2000 PA and one of their acoustic amps. Make no bones about it they are low end and made cheaply. But I wasn't able to afford any more at the time so I went for it and have been using both items for 3 years now, giging weekly. The amp has died once but was covered under warranty. The sound IMO is just fine, but I'm not playing at ridiculous levels either. I've owned their mixing boards and had trouble with channels going out, but I've owned other brands that have done the same thing.
I thing the thing to keep in mind is the old addage...you get what you pay for, but I have to say that the Behinger gear that I have has performed pretty well considering the price I payed for it. IMO.....

[e-b-e]

A friend of mine gigged pretty hard with a Behringer 16 XLR (forget model number offhand) board for 2-3 years. Only recently was he having any problems with it. He did keep in an SKB case but didn't baby it.

My band got a new Behringer board about 6-8 months ago, the SL3242FX-Pro and have had no problems with it so far.

I have a small Behringer at home, (1604A) - hardly any use and have problems with one of the channels occasionally.

Your mileage may vary.

[Knottyhed]

Originally posted by Blackwatch

I thing the thing to keep in mind is the old addage...you get what you pay for,

I don't know a damn thing about PA's but I've seen and brought enough guitars to know that the "get what you pay for" adage isn't always true. One of the most mediocre and uninspiring guitars I ever played was a Gibson les-paul that set the owner back over £1000 and I've got a Japan built squire silver series strat that craps on any mexican fender - it was kinda why I asked the behringer question in the first place. Still I suppose guitars can be sold on image and it isn't neccessarily true of a PA system.

[FuelGTRX]

All of the mixing boards I have are Behringer and is the PA we have. Most of their stuff sounds great and in pretty reliable. They are cheap just because the company wants to be a good bargain for musicians. I recently tried some of their new bass guitar stuff and their bass amps and cabs sound awsome and are pretty cheap.

[THB]

I'm not very knowledgeable about sound gear overall, but I like what's been working for me for 12 years, and that's Peavey PA gear. I've had an XR600 powered mixer that's needed work twice - once when someone spilled a margarita down the back of it and once when an XLR jack broke. My mains are Peavey 15"s with a horn and the monitors are 12"s. No problems ever with any of them. I have an old Peavey 120/120 2 channel power amp that I run monitors with when I need them, and I use the monitors for mains in smaller places.

That being said, I know the limitations of some of this stuff. I don't push too much bottom end through them because they won't take it without sounding like shit. I have PAS and JBL cabs at my disposal should the need arise, plus PAS subs.

My rig's days may be numbered as the lead guitarist and I are about to combine our gear and make a more "full-service" PA, but really, you'd be suprised how a little system can go a long way.

[Perfessor]

A Behringer thread. Time to get out the popcorn.

[riffdaddy]

Originally posted by FuelGTRX
They are cheap just because the company wants to be a good bargain for musicians.

If only this were true. Unfortunately the truth of the matter is that the components are cheaper and the workmanship is subpar.

[TimmyP]

Why your band should not buy a PA (and what to get if you do): http://www.padrick.net/LiveSound/BuyPA.htm

[riffdaddy]

Originally posted by TimmyP
Why your band should not buy a PA (and what to get if you do): http://www.padrick.net/LiveSound/BuyPA.htm

Interesting stuff. Thanks for posting!

[Meatball Fulton]

Originally posted by TimmyP
Why your band should not buy a PA (and what to get if you do): http://www.padrick.net/LiveSound/BuyPA.htm

Good post but as usual it's pretty myopic...yes, if you are a loud rock band and want that loud rock band PA thing happening you might be better off renting IF you can afford to (i.e. your gigs pay well enough to cover rentals).

I was once in a rock band where if the take was less than the sound company's fee they were guaranteed 75% of the take!!!! Turned out this was almost ALL of our gigs :eek: More than once I went home with $5 in my pocket.

It amazes me how many people seem to NEVER do gigs where the band needs to provide a PA and a small vocals only system is all that is needed. More power to you and I'll happily play all those gigs you're passing up :cool:

[MrKnobs]

Originally posted by Knottyhed
I'm in the market for a PA system and notice that Behringer under-cut the competition by quite some way. Is this because their equipment sounds like ass and is completely unreliable or is it ok?

Behringer = unreliable crap

It's cheap for a reason. Avoid using Behringer stuff in any important position of your signal chain.

I too, succumbed to the lure of cheap gear and bought Behringer stuff. It didn't last very long at all.

Terry D.

[riffdaddy]

I had more Behringer stuff fail on my gig tonight. The soundman lost two channels over the course of four hours. Based on that math, a 32-channel board should last a solo singer/guitarist through 16 two-hour gigs.

[fuzzball]

The only Behringer gear I would ever reccomend is a compressor (and that is for a compressor on a tight budget).

[Nrrrk]

For recording I use a Behringer UB1222FX and I think it's awesome. It doesn't go on gigs and just stands in the studio, actually, but i think you can get great quality sound out of it, just know how to use it. :)

[Craigv]

Originally posted by TimmyP
Why your band should not buy a PA (and what to get if you do): http://www.padrick.net/LiveSound/BuyPA.htm

I see you're still recommending beginners power 1,200w subs with 3,400 watts and suggesting they rewire UL-listed power distribution with Powercons that you can only buy from a relatively few sources. What do you recommend they do when the powercon cord's too short and the only place open is Home Depot? And yes, that's before they've launched a pair of $600 JBL drivers into the parking lot with 3x rated power.

Your heart's in the right place, but this stuff is bad advice for beginners.

[Badside]

Originally posted by Nrrrk
For recording I use a Behringer UB1222FX and I think it's awesome. It doesn't go on gigs and just stands in the studio, actually, but i think you can get great quality sound out of it, just know how to use it. :)

Sure, if you've never experience something else ;)

[Nrrrk]

lol

[MrKnobs]

Originally posted by Nrrrk
i think you can get great quality sound out of it

Think again.

:D

Terry D.

P.S. I thought my hand was great until I had sex with a girl. :o

[Nrrrk]

True. :P

but for it's price, you can't beat it, really. I paid 200 euro's for that thing, that isn't a lot.

This is a drum piece recorded with that thing :)
www.excessum.nl/drums.wav

[Hollow body]

Does anyone know why the channels crap out on Behringer boards? Has anyone had them repaired?

[moody]

Originally posted by riffdaddy


Man, I couldn't disagree more. Every piece of Peavey equipment I've ever used has eventually failed (usually multiple times). I'll bet you'll find a lot of people have the same experience.

Not from me. Rugged, reliable. Old peavey isn't as good as new peavey though.

[franchelB]

For the more fortunate ones, financially, they can stay away from the lower end products like Behringer. But there's no such thing as a "rich musician" in my world...:(

[Nrrrk]

Originally posted by Nrrrk
True. :P

but for it's price, you can't beat it, really. I paid 200 euro's for that thing, that isn't a lot.

This is a drum piece recorded with that thing :)
www.excessum.nl/drums.wav

!

[MrKnobs]

Originally posted by Hollow body
Does anyone know why the channels crap out on Behringer boards? Has anyone had them repaired?

I do my own repairs.

Don't own a lot of Behringer stuff, just a few units. So far, the number one problem is cheap parts and poor quality control of the assembly. Specifically, the connectors fail and the power supplies run very hot and tend to fail.

Terry D.

[riffdaddy]

Originally posted by moody


Not from me. Rugged, reliable. Old peavey isn't as good as new peavey though.

To each their own. Admittedly, I am growing fond of some of the newer Peavey monitor wedges. I just don't trust their boards.

Side note: yet another Behringer failing on one of my gigs. The entire second monitor mix failed on the soundman's board. We had to go with one for the entire weekend.

[Craigv]

Originally posted by riffdaddy


To each their own. Admittedly, I am growing fond of some of the newer Peavey monitor wedges. I just don't trust their boards.

Side note: yet another Behringer failing on one of my gigs. The entire second monitor mix failed on the soundman's board. We had to go with one for the entire weekend.

Never seen a Peavey board actually fail. I have an RQ and it had a problem....wrong gain pots installed from the factory....they apparently got a load of parts shipped in that were marked correctly but were linear instead of audio taper. So it worked but was very hard to adjust. At any rate, I returned the mixer, and it was repaired and back to me in just over two weeks total time. That's excellent service.

[flip333]

I used to use a Behringer PMX2000 powered mixer. We used it alone for small cheap gigs, and for bigger jobs we used it for monitors.

The 1/4 inch inputs on channels 6 thru 10 (the XLR's still work) quit last year at a gig. Something shorted out the pad buttons.

I finally got to use my upgraded rig (at a real gig) last Saturday night.

The Behringer is for monitor power only. Last Saturday, we used it for two monitor mixes for our 3 piece rock band. 250W x 2 is enough for our monitor needs.

Phew, the new stuff kicks ass.....Now I use an Allen and Heath Mixwizard, DBX Driverack, JBL SRX715's, PLX3402, Peavey 2600, and some OK Peavey subs.

The 4 Peavey TLS subs may get upgraded, but for now I can't beat the price - weight - quality product.

Clean, crisp, clear sound with lots of headroom.

Easy to carry and set up.

I am very grateful to the great guys over at the Live Sound forum for steering me towards quality.

flip

[fuzzball]

I have been the sound man for over 1000 gigs and I have to say that I trust Peavey products. I have never had any problems with their boards, monitors, amps, they have been nothing short of reliable. I also think they sound good, I think most of their gear sounds fine (you just have to know how to use it).;)