Mesa F-series Lounge. Come on in and share your secrets. [Archive] - Page 7 - Harmony Central Musician Community Forums

Surfcaster

03-19-2006, 08:07 PM

I was gone for a few days...you all have been busy!

On mic placement, I've gone through several myself. Lately I've been using the last one Andy described...the end of the mic directly over the center of the dust cap, but with the mic pointing towards the speaker cone...the mic basically making a 45 degree angle with the grille cloth (not quite as extreme as Andy described). This brings in more of the highs and, IMHO anyway, brightens up the tone. This is the way I recorded the speaker comparison between the Custom 90 and Vintage 30.

However, most of my clips in the samples were mic'd with the mic directly facing the speaker, pointing at the speaker cone just next to the edge of the dust cap. Comparing this mic'ing technique to the one described above, I find it a bit dark. The technique above brightens it up just a bit, which I've preferred lately.

Jaggery

03-20-2006, 12:42 PM

A mini report here.
First thanks to all for suggestions and making me part of the brotherhood:D .

I tried the volume pedal in loop to get a good sound thru the drive and contour channel.

Very impressive results, but still too loud for me. Looks like I might have made a mistake and should have got the F-30 instead (thats almost 1/2 the wattage).

1) I tried the Magicstomp and it worked fine, but the problem with this is that the global master volume is always on, even when you switch off the effect.

2) i tried it with a TS type true bypass pedal which has Gain and volume. So I put the gain to 0 and used the volume control to get the sound I wanted. Much better than (1). The magicstomp is a tone alterer/sucker even in the loop.

3) The magicstomp effects sound delicious thru the loop, thats what its strong point is. BTW, the high / low input switch on the MS doesnt make any difference in the loop.

So, basically there is every sound you can think of in this amp, but its a ggging players amp. For sure.

Also It seems like I am speaker deaf. I.e. ALL speakers sound same to me. I like the black shadow speaker.

You get some awesome genuine feedback (not squealing) on the drive and contour channel at low volumes.

NiCkMiLnE

03-20-2006, 01:09 PM

SURFCASTER,

you clips dont work!

can anone do me a clip of an f-series immitating petrucci/recto tone please?

Alchemist

03-20-2006, 01:14 PM

Originally posted by Jaggery

Very impressive results, but still too loud for me. Looks like I might have made a mistake and should have got the F-30 instead (thats almost 1/2 the wattage).

Hmmm volume wise the watt difference is almost irrelevant between the F-30 and F-50 when it comes to the decibel level. If you are comparing combos, the actual combo size will affect sound and projection, so the smaller F-30 combo will not sound as big, or as loud as an F-30. My F-30 is insanely loud, but I am pushing a big 4*12 cab. Even still with master on 1, I have to stand about 5 or 6 feet back of the amp when I play otherwise I get a headache heh.

mrelusive

03-20-2006, 01:38 PM

slightly off topic, but i posted a new 'clips' thread if anyone wants to gimme some criticism

check it out (http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1195411)

not f-50 stuff.... but worth a listen.

ThunderDump

03-20-2006, 02:09 PM

Just got one F-50 on friday at the House of Guitars. the salesman was dressed up in a green uncle sam suit. You guys were right about the clean. :thu:

Now I have to read all of the replies for shared secrets :cry:

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b4/Clapsend80/mesaboogie.jpg

Surfcaster

03-20-2006, 03:23 PM

Originally posted by NiCkMiLnE
SURFCASTER,

you clips dont work!

can anone do me a clip of an f-series immitating petrucci/recto tone please?

Soundclick went through some changes a few months ago...maybe all the links have changed. I'll look into it. In the meantime, if you click on the WWW link at the bottom of my posts, it will take you directly to my Soundclick page. The last 6 are the clips that are linked to the first post of this thread. The first two clips are also the F50. And most of the songs were recorded with the F50, too. You're welcome to check them out, but, I don't know that you'll find anything that sounds like Petrucci...I'm nowhere near his league in ability and I've never tried to cop his tone.

markmann

03-21-2006, 05:08 AM

Originally posted by Jaggery
A mini report here.
First thanks to all for suggestions and making me part of the brotherhood:D .

I tried the volume pedal in loop to get a good sound thru the drive and contour channel.

Very impressive results, but still too loud for me. Looks like I might have made a mistake and should have got the F-30 instead (thats almost 1/2 the wattage).

Sounds like you may want to invest in an attenuator. I use a Hotplate when I play at home and it gets the volume lower than the volume pedal will and the tone is only slightly compromised. It will definitely save your ears and enable you to enjoy late night jamming with your amp that will not cheese-off your family or neighbors.

Like Alchemist said, the difference between the f30 and f50 is more about tone than volume. They are both very loud.

markmann

03-21-2006, 05:16 AM

Originally posted by ThunderDump
Just got one F-50 on friday at the House of Guitars. the salesman was dressed up in a green uncle sam suit. You guys were right about the clean. :thu:

Now I have to read all of the replies for shared secrets :cry:
Welcome TD. Nice amp and sweet guitar dude! Yep, the cleans are what sold me on the f50. One of the cool things about the f's is that you don't have to be a tweaker to get good tone from the amp but the more you tweak the more great tones you'll discover. Have fun

GTM

03-21-2006, 05:53 AM

Originally posted by markmann
Sounds like you may want to invest in an attenuator. I use a Hotplate when I play at home and it gets the volume lower than the volume pedal will and the tone is only slightly compromised. It will definitely save your ears and enable you to enjoy late night jamming with your amp that will not cheese-off your family or neighbors.

Like Alchemist said, the difference between the f30 and f50 is more about tone than volume. They are both very loud.

I second the Hotplate suggestion. I was very frustrated with my F-50 when I first bought it, I could not get a good low volume tone at home. I tried all kinds of pedals, overdrives, compressor, EQ, volume pedals, etc, nothing worked to my liking. I find the F-50 gets a lot of its tone from the power tubes, using a Hotplate allows me to utlize the power amp. I am very satisfied with the Hotplate. If you have any doubts, buy one from Musiciansfriend. They have a 30 day return, if you don't like it send it back. They also do on-line price matching, find a better price and e-mail it to them. I saved about $45 doing that. Good luck!

Jaggery

03-21-2006, 08:13 AM

Surfcaster

03-21-2006, 08:27 AM

I've not tried a HotPlate, but have tried a couple other attenuators...including a Weber MiniMass. I wasn't that impressed with the results, unless you're really cranking the amp wide open and getting some serious power tube contribution, it doesn't really sound much different than keeping the master low...and if you're cranking the amp that much, you'll be using some serious attenuation which will definitely affect the way the amp sounds. I found I preferred the sound of the amp with the MV low than cranked with an attenuator.

It's personal preference, I know, but just wanted to put in my 2 cents. And also, perhaps the Hotplate is better, but I wasn't ready to shell out that much $$.

Now if all you need is a small amount of attenuation...say you want to run the master on your F-Series amp at about 10:00 oclock, but keep the volume at reasonable levels, the impact of the attenuator on the tone probably won't be too bad, but in that case, I found the in-loop attenuation to sound at least as good as the MiniMass, if not better.

Anyway, I think the best advice is to either give it a serious test drive before you buy, or make sure you can return it and then test it thoroughly before your return period runs out.

As for wearing on tubes, the attenuator itself has no impact on the life of your tubes. However, if you run the amp hotter because you have the attenuator, your tubes will burn out quicker, simply becuase they are running hotter.

You will need to use a speaker cable between the amp and the attenuator.

Jaggery

03-21-2006, 08:43 AM

Originally posted by Surfcaster

Anyway, I think the best advice is to either give it a serious test drive before you buy, or make sure you can return it and then test it thoroughly before your return period runs out.

..
..
You will need to use a speaker cable between the amp and the attenuator.

Thanks for the advice.
Yeah the new price on hotplate is steep.

For the in loop attenuation, would just connecting the send and return work the same way as volume pedal with the FX level acting as the volume?

I am hesitant to try should it cause some sort of damage?

GTM

03-21-2006, 09:05 AM

Originally posted by Jaggery

Thanks for the advice.
Yeah the new price on hotplate is steep.

For the in loop attenuation, would just connecting the send and return work the same way as volume pedal with the FX level acting as the volume?

I am hesitant to try should it cause some sort of damage?

IMHO, your wasting time and energy, I know because I was in your shoes. I didn't want to $pring for the Hotplate. All I can say is after months of wasting time, the Hotplate was the answer for me. I keep the master volume at about 9:00 or a tad above. Normally that would be blasting loud at home. With the Hotplate, it gives me what I'm looking for in a good volume/tone level for practicing at home. Yes there is some compromise but the way I look at it, I'm just practicing at home. I want good tone, sustain, bottom, highs, I want my effects to sound good. All these things are important and I don't know of any other way to do it without seriously compromising the original sound of the amp. Shop around, you can find used Hotplates for around $180 - $200. Or like I said, buy from MF and test drive with option to return.

Flannery

03-21-2006, 09:24 AM

Hello all,
I am using a volume pedal in the effects loop right now. How much better/ different is using an attenuator? Is there large tone differences with these two methods? Is it worth the money to get an attenuator? Or is an attenuator a minor improvement?

musicdog400

03-21-2006, 09:55 AM

How much better/ different is using an attenuator?
Very different. Advantage is you can raise the master volume, which is necessary for this amp to sound good. Also you can put the master on 10, then adjust the Pre gain to get ouput distortion which has a different sound that preamp distortion.

Disadvantage is that you lose some treble when you start attenuating a lot. At least with most attenuators. I believe there is one, I think called Ultimate attenuator, that uses active circuitry to try to solve this problem. I use an attenuator all the time (Weber mass and homemade ones).

Is there large tone differences with these two methods? Yes, a volume control in the loop will not let you get power tube distortion at low volumes.

Is it worth the money to get an attenuator? Or is an attenuator a minor improvement? For me it is worth it. You can buy an attenuator for under $250 or make one for ~ $100 or less. Its the only way to go if you want power tube distortion at low volumes. Well there are the isolation cabs also, and ear plugs.

Dann'sTheMan

03-21-2006, 09:57 AM

Originally posted by Jaggery

Thanks for the advice.
Yeah the new price on hotplate is steep.

For the in loop attenuation, would just connecting the send and return work the same way as volume pedal with the FX level acting as the volume?

I am hesitant to try should it cause some sort of damage?

Regarding your question, unfortunately no, simply connecting the send and return will not work. The control on the back of the amp is a parallel Mix control (10~90%). The Send level is controlled by the Master Volumes on the front, so that kind of defeats the purpose. Mesa's loop design relies on your (line level) outboard gear having a Return level - if you can control this, then you can use the "Volume-pedal-in-the-loop" trick.

FWIW, with this loop attenuation approach, I usually have my Master Volumes above 10 o'clock, and sometimes as high as 3 o'clock. :thu:

Big smiles,

Andy.

Jaggery

03-21-2006, 10:08 AM

Originally posted by Dann'sTheMan

Regarding your question, unfortunately no, simply connecting the send and return will not work. The control on the back of the amp is a parallel Mix control (10~90%). The Send level is controlled by the Master Volumes on the front, so that kind of defeats the purpose. Mesa's loop design relies on your (line level) outboard gear having a Return level - if you can control this, then you can use the "Volume-pedal-in-the-loop" trick.

FWIW, with this loop attenuation approach, I usually have my Master Volumes above 10 o'clock, and sometimes as high as 3 o'clock. :thu:

Big smiles,

Andy.

Hey Dann,

I tried it and yes it wont work.
BTW, I spent the morning trying out different settings on the front panel and volume in loop (VIL). I am gettin there.
I will do a test with some actual people outside my room to see if it disturbs them (thats what its all about).

With the Master at 9 and VIL at 9, I am getting a pretty good sound. With master upto 10-12, and VIL adjusted down accordingly, even better.

One thing I tried with the drive channel (not contour) was Pre amp at 9 and VIL on full (at this point this becomes a volume boost), the boost function on the volume pedal (HBE powerscreamer) turned on and treble on the HBE at 12 or more, volume on my strat on 8-full, beautiful trebly (but not harsh) semiclean sound.

Hopefully I will try some clips next week.

Thanks again all.

Mark Blasco

03-21-2006, 10:42 AM

One thing I am curious about (and I am not near my amp today, so I can't try it myself), what if you connected a cable to the send jack of the loop, and another to the return jack of the loop, but didn't connect the other ends to anything. That would in essence be like connecting a volume pedal with the volume turned all of the way down, correct? Would you then be able to adjust the volume with the loop mix control?

musicdog400

03-21-2006, 10:53 AM

I bet it would have some effect. But you probably wouldn't be able to turn it all the way down since it is a parallel loop and there is always some part of the signal sneaking past the loop.

Unless you do the mod.

Surfcaster

03-21-2006, 12:36 PM

I was going to suggest just plugging one end of a cable into the one of the jacks and not the other...I've inadvertently done this before and only realized when my effects pedals weren't impacting the sound coming out of my amp. Checking the back of the amp I realized I wasn't plugged into both send and return. Anyway, I found that in this case the setting of the Mix Level does affect the overall volume of the amp...I can't remember whether the plug was in the send or return, but it's easy enough to figure that out by trial and error. Probably worth checking out.

Actually, it WOULD NOT work doing the mod...if you mod it to serial and plug into the send and not the return you will break the signal path completely. With the parallel loop, the signal is split and the mix level controls how much of the signal goes through the loop and how much bypasses the loop...by sending more of the signal to the loop which is an incomplete circuit, you reduce the level of signal bypassing the loop and going to the power amp, effectively turning the Mix Level into another volume control...albeit one that cannot be turned down to zero becuase there will always be at least 10% bypassing the loop no matter what.

musicdog400

03-21-2006, 01:44 PM

Actually, it WOULD NOT work doing the mod...
Thanks for correcting me. I meant to say that the problem goes away with a serial loop. Just insert any volume controlling device and there you are.

gnojedre

03-21-2006, 03:02 PM

Hi,

Let me introduce myself , cause I will be spending lots of times here...

I've been using a Mesa DC-5 for some 6-7 years.
Been playing Instrumental rock and fusion with it.
Being invited to play in a 80's-coverband , I decided to change my amp for a Line6 Flextone.I needed a lot of different sounds..

Now I'm in a soul-funkband and I wanted to go back to Mesa.
For me the Flextone just dont cut it Live.

Anyway I have just bought a F-50 combo and a G-system from TC-electronics.

The stuff is ordered and will come in next week.The guy in the shop will make me a special cable to change the channels with the G-system.

I hope he gets it right cause I read on the TC site that some Boogies can be hurt with wrong soldering of the cable.

Maybe anyone here has the same setup?Any help would be very appreciated.

Furthermore I was wondering what you guys use (if applicable) for a second amp in a stereo setup.
Before Mesa sold the Satellite (1x12"with a poweramp).

Ok , thanx for any help in advance .

PS I'm from the netherlands , so forgive me if my English is not topnotch.

Greetings from the Country of Christian Albers , Jos verstappen , the Van Halen brothers and Jan Akkerman...

Squeezer:wave:

Dann'sTheMan

03-21-2006, 04:10 PM

Originally posted by gnojedre
Hi,

Let me introduce myself , cause I will be spending lots of times here...

I've been using a Mesa DC-5 for some 6-7 years.
Been playing Instrumental rock and fusion with it.
Being invited to play in a 80's-coverband , I decided to change my amp for a Line6 Flextone.I needed a lot of different sounds..

Now I'm in a soul-funkband and I wanted to go back to Mesa.
For me the Flextone just dont cut it Live.

Anyway I have just bought a F-50 combo and a G-system from TC-electronics.

The stuff is ordered and will come in next week.The guy in the shop will make me a special cable to change the channels with the G-system.

I hope he gets it right cause I read on the TC site that some Boogies can be hurt with wrong soldering of the cable.

Maybe anyone here has the same setup?Any help would be very appreciated.

Furthermore I was wondering what you guys use (if applicable) for a second amp in a stereo setup.
Before Mesa sold the Satellite (1x12"with a poweramp).

Ok , thanx for any help in advance .

PS I'm from the netherlands , so forgive me if my English is not topnotch.

Greetings from the Country of Christian Albers , Jos verstappen , the Van Halen brothers and Jan Akkerman...

Squeezer:wave:

Hi gnojedre,

and welcome to the F-series brotherhood, and to HCAF - I hope you have as much fun here as I do. :)

Regarding your new rig, it sounds awesome. I've had a brief opportunity to play through the G-System, and it sounded great. The G-System was announced the very week that I ordered a G-Major - I can't complain though, as I was pleased with the price that I paid for the little brother.

The G-Major has a similar TRS/stereo switching interface to the G-System, and so the custom cable that I made should work for the G-System too. Check out this post (http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=14518382#post14518382) for more information on the wiring instructions. Your guy at the shop might find it useful. :)

By the way, you don't have to worry about a properly wired cable hurting the amp. Mesa did warn that some of their most recent amps needed independent grounds for each of the functions - however Mesa's own footswitch schematics show that the F-series footswitch uses a common ground design. :cool:

Welcome once again. :thu:

Big smiles,

Andy.

musicdog400

03-21-2006, 04:24 PM

Mesa's own footswitch schematics

Anyone have any F Series schematics ? I mean for the preamp, poweramp, etc ? I am just curious to see the circuit.

Dann'sTheMan

03-21-2006, 04:51 PM

Originally posted by musicdog400

Anyone have any F Series schematics ? I mean for the preamp, poweramp, etc ? I am just curious to see the circuit.

Mesa sent me the Power supply schematics for the export version of the F-50 and F-100. I bought my F-50 in Germany, and I got in touch with them to find out what I would need to do to convert it to UK specs. In the end it was a simple matter of using the 240V tap rather than the 230V tap from the (export) transformer, so the Power supply schematics were a luxury. Nevertheless, the Power supply schematics also contained the circuit diagrams for the footswitch circuitry - so they've been useful on that front. :)

Big smiles,

Andy.

thrash

03-21-2006, 08:16 PM

On the F-100 when switched to the 60 watt setting, does it cut two tubes out or just reduce power to all four?

hal9000

03-22-2006, 06:14 AM

Originally posted by thrash
On the F-100 when switched to the 60 watt setting, does it cut two tubes out or just reduce power to all four? The outer two tubes are out of the circuit at that point in standby mode. In fact you could remove them from the amp entirely if you want. When running in 60 W mode, you should also drop the speaker connection one tap lower (e.g. 8 Ohm speaker into 4 Ohm tap) if you want the same sound and feel as the 100 W mode. There isn't a problem according to Mesa with leaving the speaker as normal, but it sounds a bit darker and has a different feel.

hal9000

03-22-2006, 06:16 AM

Originally posted by Antti Loponen

Nice!:thu:

Does it now also sound better :D Thanks Annti! :) It sounds exactly the same actually because I used the same type of material (jute) as the original.

hal9000

03-22-2006, 06:16 AM

Originally posted by nifty50
Hal9000's F-100 looks Beautiful; and I'm sure it sounds the same! Nice job Hal! Thanks nifty! :)

gnojedre

03-22-2006, 09:30 AM

How bout the stereo setup?

What do you guys use as a second amp?

A Mesa cabinet with a tube poweramp?

Thanx

Alchemist

03-22-2006, 09:35 AM

My second amp (which I run stereo) is a custom Traynor YCV40 limited. It handles the early Gary Moore toned portion of my rig.

I have a pic of it a few pages back.

GTM

03-22-2006, 11:51 AM

Originally posted by Flannery
Hello all,
I am using a volume pedal in the effects loop right now. How much better/ different is using an attenuator? Is there large tone differences with these two methods? Is it worth the money to get an attenuator? Or is an attenuator a minor improvement?

I have both setups, volume pedal in the loop and Hotplate. I use a Digitech 2120 rack effects processor in the loop of my F-50 which comes with a floor controller. The floor board is ten assignable switches and a expression pedal which I have set up as a volume pedal. I find that all the volume pedal in the loop is doing is limiting the pre-amp signal to the power tubes. So I can have the amp dimed but just send a tiny signal from the pre amp to the power tubes which IMHO isn't driving either amp section. The Hoptplate on the other hand allows me to drive both the pre amp and power amp achieveing tube saturation, it limits the signal to the speaker only. This is the sound I'm after.

Torh

03-22-2006, 12:16 PM

Hello.

I have the POD XT Live, and I have today been struck by a real GAS-attack, blaming Mesa's F-series. Now, all I can think of is using a F-30, and supply it with the XTL in the effects loop, providing me the perfect sound from an amp, with tons of decent effects.
I think the 50 would be way too loud. I practice a lot home, but will perhaps be playing for a choir. If the F-30 is too low, I have no idea, but I don't think it would be a problem to mic it up..?

Anyone who has tried the combination of an F-amp with the XTL?

(I am sorry if this has been discussed, but I did not find a possibility to search within this thread solely; a function I have seen in other forums...)

acoustiholic

03-22-2006, 12:30 PM

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y11/jdc1358/Stage09.jpg

My F-50 with vertical 2-12" cab underneath.
Awsome.

Dann'sTheMan

03-22-2006, 01:19 PM

Originally posted by acoustiholic
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y11/jdc1358/Stage09.jpg

My F-50 with vertical 2-12" cab underneath.
Awsome.

Awesome indeed, acousticholic! :)

How does the closed back 2x12 sound with the combo's speaker. I've been thinking that that might be a particularly glorious combination. I still remember fondly putting the F-50 combo through a Traditional Recto 4x12, and although the 4x12 cab dominated the sound a bit too much, I've always thought a 2x12 closed back would be a gorgeous compliment to the F-50 combo. If I ever get a chance to audition a 2x12 vertical Recto cab, it might have to come home with me! :D

Please share any close up pics of your rig if you have any. Oh, and tell us more about the gig where you took the photo - looked cool! :thu:

Big smiles,

Andy.

thrash

03-22-2006, 02:00 PM

My head has still not arrived yet to try. I'm not well versed with Mesa Amps.

1) How many here have an F-100?

2)Do you guys use the F series because you feel it is better than other Mesa Heads or because it is less expensive? If you think it is better, why?

JKornel

03-22-2006, 03:51 PM

thrash

03-22-2006, 06:22 PM

Originally posted by JKornel

1) I use an F100 Head into a Mesa 3/4 Back 212 with Black Shadows. It KILLS !!!!

2) I bought the F100 after trying Recto's, Rectoverbs, Tremoverbs, and other brands. I ended up with the F100 becuase the tone was exactly what I wanted. It tryed them all in the store and the F just killed so I took it home !

Hope that helps. You won't be disappointed with the F series.

Glad to hear. I've been insearch of the right amp for a few years now. I've had: Blue Voodoo, Peavey XXL and Ultra, Marshall JCM 900, Randall V Max and RH200, and a 5150 II. The most versitile was the Ultra, I like that head but it was damaged in a shipping incident.

Hope the F-100 will be warmer than the Peaveys and the Randalls.

I too have a 3/4 back Mesa. The other guitarist in our band swears by the 2x12 Recto cab. I got mine at a good price and A/B the two. Both are good, at loud volume they sound pretty close to my ears.

Do you use any effects?

Valtyr

03-22-2006, 07:26 PM

Surfcaster

03-22-2006, 08:10 PM

Price was not the only factor in my buying the F50, but it was part of the reason. I was looking for an amp under $1000 (this was 2.5 years ago), and I had tried several...Marshall DSL 401, Marshall TSL 601, Marshall AVT, Crate V-Series, Traynor, Mesa Nomads, Fender Hot Rod, Fender Pro Reverb, Fender Blues Jr. and Cybertwin, all the other modelling amps that were out at the time, and I owned an Ampeg Reverberocket at the time. I thought the F50 was FAR superior to all of them, and I still do. Now I didn't compare it to many amps over $1000, but I didn't have that kind of money anyway, so it didn't really matter. However, I have to admit the Dr Z Maz 18 Jr. I played about a year ago sounded pretty sweet...I'd like to A/B it with the F50 sometime.

Alchemist

03-22-2006, 08:14 PM

I have an F-30 head, which I run into a Fender Supersonic 4*12 cabinet. I bought this amp because I like the tone. Price was not a factor. I have spent around $5000 on gear in the past 9 months, so I could have bought any one of many expensive amps, I chose this because I like it.

markmann

03-23-2006, 06:31 AM

Originally posted by gnojedre
How bout the stereo setup?

What do you guys use as a second amp?

A Mesa cabinet with a tube poweramp?

Thanx I have a Hiwatt Custom 50 half stack that compliments my f50 very well. In fact the reason I bought a Mesa was because an ex-bandmate of mine had a Mesa and it sounded so good with my Hiwatt that I bought one. Two very different sounding amps that just happen to sound good together. The only problem is that I only have one attenuator and playing through both amps at the same time is insanely loud. If I ever play a stadium gig it will be perfect :D Until then I mostly just play through the f50.

markmann

03-23-2006, 06:37 AM

hal9000

03-23-2006, 07:12 AM

Originally posted by thrash
My head has still not arrived yet to try. I'm not well versed with Mesa Amps.

1) How many here have an F-100?

2)Do you guys use the F series because you feel it is better than other Mesa Heads or because it is less expensive? If you think it is better, why? 1) I have an F-100 and I think it's the best thing since sliced bread. :)

2) I bought it after trying out every Mesa amp available at the time (non Lone Star or Stiletto at the time). I also tried every other amp I could get my hands on including all of the Fenders, Marshalls, Peaveys, some Koch, VHT, Soldano, and many others. In the end, I really loved the Mark IV (and I may still buy one) but the F-100 just spoke to me. The clean channel was unreal, the reverb was good, the OD had a fat solo sound as good as I've heard from some of the best amps around, including the mighty Mark IV, and I can bring the heavy when contour is engaged. I had a budget big enough for the Road King, but in the end, the F-100's simple interface, sweet clean, outstanding overdrive fat solo, and heavy contour tones won me over. The price of $1300 certainly was nice, but that wasn't really part of the equation. I also have other amps that I don't gig with even though they are more expensive or have more features. The other amps simply don't serve my band as well. Finally, now that I have a G-Major/MIDI rig I have enough control to use the F-100 as a three-channel amp since I equalize the difference in Contour and OD per patch. The way I setup the amp now is for clean, OD solo or vintage rhythm, and heavy rhythm on Contour. Solo boosts are available per patch.

Dann'sTheMan

03-23-2006, 07:14 AM

Flannery

03-23-2006, 08:05 AM

Hello all,
I attempted to find a Hotplate at the music stores here, but no-one in my town carries THD stuff. There are Marshall powerbrakes to be had, but I haven't heard much good about them, so I'm a little leery about incorporating one into my rig.
One of the salesmen I was talking to suggested replacing one of the power tubes with a "dummy load tube" (his term...) made by groove tubes. I was wondering if anyone has gone this route, and what the results were. I'm not covinced that this would have good results..... but there is no substitute for experience. :)

markmann

03-23-2006, 11:18 AM

Originally posted by Flannery
Hello all,
I attempted to find a Hotplate at the music stores here, but no-one in my town carries THD stuff. There are Marshall powerbrakes to be had, but I haven't heard much good about them, so I'm a little leery about incorporating one into my rig.
One of the salesmen I was talking to suggested replacing one of the power tubes with a "dummy load tube" (his term...) made by groove tubes. I was wondering if anyone has gone this route, and what the results were. I'm not covinced that this would have good results..... but there is no substitute for experience. :) I bought my hotplate off ebay. There's always a few on there for a reasonable price and the nice thing is that if you don't like it just put it right back on and get your money back.

gnojedre

03-24-2006, 05:00 AM

Hi Guys,

has anyone experiences with a modded DS-1 from Robert Keeley in conjunction with the F-50?

Been reading some very good things about his mods , and it would turn my amp into a 4 channel beast....

Eric

hal9000

03-24-2006, 06:38 AM

Originally posted by Mark Blasco
One thing I am curious about (and I am not near my amp today, so I can't try it myself), what if you connected a cable to the send jack of the loop, and another to the return jack of the loop, but didn't connect the other ends to anything. That would in essence be like connecting a volume pedal with the volume turned all of the way down, correct? Would you then be able to adjust the volume with the loop mix control? Actually, you only need a single 1/4" connector into the FX send jack to break the normal connection to the return jack. The mechanical connection in the FX send jack is broken when a plug is inserted. Then, he only remaining path from the preamp is from the parallel line which uses the FX mix pot to return the signal. So, you can control the overall volume of the amp with the mix pot. I haven’t suggested this route before because you can’t use the FX loop this way, but it’s cheap and easy to get an overall master volume. I would suggest going to a Radio Shack to buy a 1/4" plug so there’s no chance of the cable shorting to the chassis.

Torh

03-24-2006, 07:31 AM

Originally posted by Torh
Hello.

I have the POD XT Live, and I have today been struck by a real GAS-attack, blaming Mesa's F-series. Now, all I can think of is using a F-30, and supply it with the XTL in the effects loop, providing me the perfect sound from an amp, with tons of decent effects.
I think the 50 would be way too loud. I practice a lot home, but will perhaps be playing for a choir. If the F-30 is too low, I have no idea, but I don't think it would be a problem to mic it up..?

Anyone who has tried the combination of an F-amp with the XTL?

(I am sorry if this has been discussed, but I did not find a possibility to search within this thread solely; a function I have seen in other forums...)

Anyone?

Jaggery

03-24-2006, 07:44 AM

So I played the Channel 2 and Countour with master on 9+ and gain on 12-3.....No volume in the loop or anything......Holy crap My ears are ringing a bit.
Such a thick tone. Actually louder the master the lesser gain can be used and still produce a great sustaining lead sound. About the EQ, I am still learning.
To be honest I dont get it at this point. I use the pedal in the loop to add some mids and get a great marshally sound, though it muddies a little, I am working on this.

With master at 8-9 I asked my brother to stand outside my room with the door closed to see if this disturbs other people in the house. He said its loud in that he can hear everything clearly even in the living room.

Well i will play it till the neighbor complains....:p

Also the background noise is there if master is up. This decreases as the amp is played for a few hours. Or maybe I just stop noticing it.
I guess this is normal.

Dann'sTheMan

03-24-2006, 08:47 AM

Originally posted by Torh

Anyone?

I believe nickt uses a POD XTL with his F-50.

hal9000 owns an F-100 and a POD XTL - he used to run them together, but these days, he's primarily using his G-Major.

Antii Loponen uses an XTL with his F-30. Look for his post dated 28 December 2005, for pics of his rig. :cool:

I believe most of these guys run the XTL in front of the F-series, rather than in the loop, and Antii commented that he thought the POD sounded better in this configuration.

Regarding whether the F-30 or the F-50 would be the better choice. They sound subtley different, and are both bone-crunchingly loud. I would base the decision on which tone you prefer, and how much clean headroom you require - the F-50 can get very loud and maintain a pristine clean sound. :cool:

Big smiles,

Andy.

Dann'sTheMan

03-24-2006, 08:59 AM

Originally posted by Jaggery
So I played the Channel 2 and Countour with master on 9+ and gain on 12-3.....No volume in the loop or anything......Holy crap My ears are ringing a bit.
Such a thick tone. Actually louder the master the lesser gain can be used and still produce a great sustaining lead sound. About the EQ, I am still learning.
To be honest I dont get it at this point. I use the pedal in the loop to add some mids and get a great marshally sound, though it muddies a little, I am working on this.

With master at 8-9 I asked my brother to stand outside my room with the door closed to see if this disturbs other people in the house. He said its loud in that he can hear everything clearly even in the living room.

Well i will play it till the neighbor complains....:p

Also the background noise is there if master is up. This decreases as the amp is played for a few hours. Or maybe I just stop noticing it.
I guess this is normal.

Do be careful with your hearing - it's easily damaged, and it's very easy with Tube amps to do precisely that, as they sound better and better as the volume levels are raised. :eek:

I'm sorry the volume-pedal-in-the-loop approach didn't work for you. I understand that you used both Yamaha MagicStomp, and a Tube Screamer type overdrive to achieve the loop attenuation. I don't know if you've got an opportunity to try a line level device for the loop attenuation - there might be some mileage with this approach, as the devices that you tried are also designed to work at instrument level.

As you may have gathered, I use a G-Major rack FX unit to attenuate in the loop. I turn the amp's Mix control to maximum (90%), I then turn the amp's Master Volume controls to 10 o'clock and above, and finally I adjust the overall volume using the G-Major's global output level. With this approach, the tones are much better than just using the amp's Master volume, and I get get great thick tones at TV volumes.

What volume level are you trying to achieve? :)

Big smiles,

Andy.

Surfcaster

03-24-2006, 09:56 AM

Originally posted by Jaggery
So I played the Channel 2 and Countour with master on 9+ and gain on 12-3.....No volume in the loop or anything......Holy crap My ears are ringing a bit.
Such a thick tone. Actually louder the master the lesser gain can be used and still produce a great sustaining lead sound. About the EQ, I am still learning.
To be honest I dont get it at this point. I use the pedal in the loop to add some mids and get a great marshally sound, though it muddies a little, I am working on this.

With master at 8-9 I asked my brother to stand outside my room with the door closed to see if this disturbs other people in the house. He said its loud in that he can hear everything clearly even in the living room.

Well i will play it till the neighbor complains....:p

Also the background noise is there if master is up. This decreases as the amp is played for a few hours. Or maybe I just stop noticing it.
I guess this is normal.

The F50 is not really an apartment friendly amp, but even when I had a solid state amp in an apartment I had the people in the apartment below banging on the ceiling once! Ooops...had to go down and apologize. Anyway, that's one nice thing about owning a detached house! I know the neighbors still hear my amp from time to time, but I don't think it's obnoxious...and it's probably less now that I play in the basement.

With a volume pedal in the loop or an attenuator between the amp and speaker you could get the volume down to acceptable levels, and if you share walls with nieghbors, it might be worth the investment. BUT, you will lose something in terms of tone. Then again, compromise might be your only solution at this point.

My late night solution (since I often play after the family is in bed) is a modeler preamp (Behringer VAMP-2, but would work with any) with a good set of computer speakers (complete w/ subwoofer) plugged into the headphone jack. I was skeptical when I read about someone else doing it, but it really works quite nicely when you can't crank your amp!

As for the background noise...I remember noticing it when I first got the amp, but I haven't thought about it for a couple years...probably just got used to it.

Torh

03-24-2006, 03:26 PM

Originally posted by Dann'sTheMan

I believe nickt uses a POD XTL with his F-50.

hal9000 owns an F-100 and a POD XTL - he used to run them together, but these days, he's primarily using his G-Major.

Antii Loponen uses an XTL with his F-30. Look for his post dated 28 December 2005, for pics of his rig. :cool:

I believe most of these guys run the XTL in front of the F-series, rather than in the loop, and Antii commented that he thought the POD sounded better in this configuration.

Regarding whether the F-30 or the F-50 would be the better choice. They sound subtley different, and are both bone-crunchingly loud. I would base the decision on which tone you prefer, and how much clean headroom you require - the F-50 can get very loud and maintain a pristine clean sound. :cool:

Big smiles,

Andy.

Ah, thanks for a good answer :) I guess I should be more open-minded to the F-50, then ;) As for the XTL, I wonder why Antii thinks it is best to run the Live in front, as I thought the modulation effects should be in the loop. Ah, well, I better send him a PM if he doesn't see this post in the near future.

mr. tickles

03-24-2006, 09:33 PM

Hey all,

I just picked up an F-50 a few months ago and think it is a fantastic amp.

I read the breakdown on building an attenuator on page 5, that hal9000 had posted and I am having a lot of trouble with building the pedal. ( I am new to electronics).

If anyone can help me out, it would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Cam

Dann'sTheMan

03-25-2006, 01:24 AM

Originally posted by mr. tickles
Hey all,

I just picked up an F-50 a few months ago and think it is a fantastic amp.

I read the breakdown on building an attenuator on page 5, that hal9000 had posted and I am having a lot of trouble with building the pedal. ( I am new to electronics).

If anyone can help me out, it would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Cam

Hi Cam,

Welcome to HCAF and to the F-series Lounge. It's cool that you've made your first HC post here, and I hope you have as much fun with your F-50 and at HC as I do. Most importantly, welcome to the brotherhood. :)

Regarding the loop attenuator project, have you checked out the more detailed instructions posted on 6th January 2006? Let us know if you need more help. :cool:

So what kind of music do you play Cam? Do you play out much? Any pics or clips? :D

Big smiles,

Andy.

acoustiholic

03-25-2006, 09:11 AM

Originally posted by Dann'sTheMan

Awesome indeed, acousticholic! :)

How does the closed back 2x12 sound with the combo's speaker. I've been thinking that that might be a particularly glorious combination. I still remember fondly putting the F-50 combo through a Traditional Recto 4x12, and although the 4x12 cab dominated the sound a bit too much, I've always thought a 2x12 closed back would be a gorgeous compliment to the F-50 combo. If I ever get a chance to audition a 2x12 vertical Recto cab, it might have to come home with me! :D

Please share any close up pics of your rig if you have any. Oh, and tell us more about the gig where you took the photo - looked cool! :thu:

Big smiles,

Andy.

Hey Andy,
The combination of the vertical 2-12 and the open-back combo IS glorious! I've actually just ordered ANOTHER vertical 2-12- already have a second F50 to put on top. Can't wait! I've tried Marshalls, Buddas, Fenders, Orang, and a bunch more setups over the years but nothing has satisfied my tonal yearnings like this current setup. I also had a Triple Rec and it didn't sound as good for my sound. As you can see, I'm a strat freak and this F50 with the extension cab to me is very close to the Holy Grail Of Tone. Imagine a 50's Fender VibroVerb- it's THAT close without spending 10 grand! I'm definitely a convert and will post pics of the DOUBLE HALF STACK when it arrives. :thu: :thu: :thu:

Flannery

03-25-2006, 10:07 AM

Hello all,
I just wanted to thank you guys for the suggestions. The recordings are definitely sounding better now that I've incorporated some of your suggestions. The volume pedal in the loop was an eye opener, and you guys suggested a mike placement that I wasn't familiar with (and it sounds great...more high end, which is what I needed!).

My next project is to build the attenuator that has been posted here (the post from 6 Jan)....I was wondering if any of you have made it....and if you did, how were the results? One thing I am curious about is how much heat builds up in the load (I work in electronics, and cooling is always! an issue), I assume it doesn't melt itself, but how hot does it get?

Thanks again for the helpful suggestions, and I'll try and post some of my recordings as soon as they make it onto my hard drive. (I'm demoing with a Roland 880 right now...it's old tech, but I find for demoing it suits my purposes...)

Paul

DemiFrost

03-25-2006, 11:01 AM

Bump.

I'm gonna hope they have the F-series when I go today, and will be bringing the audition settings. :]

Hopefully, it'll be great for me.

hal9000

03-25-2006, 01:55 PM

Originally posted by Flannery
Hello all,
I just wanted to thank you guys for the suggestions. The recordings are definitely sounding better now that I've incorporated some of your suggestions. The volume pedal in the loop was an eye opener, and you guys suggested a mike placement that I wasn't familiar with (and it sounds great...more high end, which is what I needed!).

My next project is to build the attenuator that has been posted here (the post from 6 Jan)....I was wondering if any of you have made it....and if you did, how were the results? One thing I am curious about is how much heat builds up in the load (I work in electronics, and cooling is always! an issue), I assume it doesn't melt itself, but how hot does it get?

Thanks again for the helpful suggestions, and I'll try and post some of my recordings as soon as they make it onto my hard drive. (I'm demoing with a Roland 880 right now...it's old tech, but I find for demoing it suits my purposes...)

Paul The volume attenuator I posted back on 1/6/06 is for reduction of the FX loop level, not as a power attenuator (e.g. Hot Plate) just so we're clear. I designed and built a much more complicated circuit for use as a relay-switched FX loop solo boost, so the circuit I posted is just a simplified version for only loop attenuation. Since there is very little current or voltage in the FX loop, there is no need to worry about heat dissipation. Markman and Gazz built the circuit pretty much like you see that I posted. If you're not using the loop then you can just plug in a dummy cable to the FX send jack, and the parallel mix pot will control your volume to act as a final master. Conversely, many FX devices have there own output volumes which will work the same way.

hal9000

03-25-2006, 01:56 PM

Originally posted by DemiFrost
Bump.

I'm gonna hope they have the F-series when I go today, and will be bringing the audition settings. :]

Hopefully, it'll be great for me. Good luck DemiFrost! I hope my settings will give you a good starting point with the controls. :)

DemiFrost

03-25-2006, 04:56 PM

Alright, so.

I tried the F-50 head (connected to a 4x12 standard Recto cab) and the F-30 combo.

It's true there's hardly a difference in volume, though I couldn't tell the difference in tone (due to the different power tubes.)

I used my own guitar. Jackson Kelly KE-3 with Duncan Designed pickups. GHS Fatties (.09's).

First off, wow, it was loud. I had the master volume barely on and it was pretty loud. Or maybe that was because I was right in front of it, or I didn't want to play out too loud since it was right in front of the desk/front of the store. Definitely don't need the F-100, or a 4x12 cab.

The clean channel was impressive, I was also pretty surprised by how much your attack changed the volume and sound.

The drive channels were pretty great. My doubts of high gain capabilities was pretty much shot when I tried the Metal humbucker setting (by hal.) The contour switch was pretty much a new channel except with a shared EQ, much more suited for rhythm. However, it got the sound got a little muddy when I messed with the settings. I'm sure it sounds much better when the tubes are driven harder? My only problem really is the clarity, and slightly less the capacity for a more brutal overdrive, though it's not too much of a problem as my band isn't really brutal. Otherwise, it seems like a great amp for me if I can tweak it a bit more. Lead (with contour off) sounded pretty awesome.

At $1049, it's not too expensive. I would've tried a single rectifier as well, but it wasn't hooked up and was at $1279.

My friend who went with me is set on a Line 6 Vetta or HD147, though I don't think he tried the Mesas.

NiCkMiLnE

03-25-2006, 05:08 PM

Originally posted by hal9000
Actually, you only need a single 1/4" connector into the FX send jack to break the normal connection to the return jack. The mechanical connection in the FX send jack is broken when a plug is inserted. Then, he only remaining path from the preamp is from the parallel line which uses the FX mix pot to return the signal. So, you can control the overall volume of the amp with the mix pot. I haven’t suggested this route before because you can’t use the FX loop this way, but it’s cheap and easy to get an overall master volume. I would suggest going to a Radio Shack to buy a 1/4" plug so there’s no chance of the cable shorting to the chassis.

what ,so its a cheap ass attenuator?

can you make a schem for that, and will it work with a head?

also, it will not damage the amp will it?

hal9000

03-25-2006, 06:15 PM

Originally posted by NiCkMiLnE

what ,so its a cheap ass attenuator?

can you make a schem for that, and will it work with a head?

also, it will not damage the amp will it? You don't have to make anything and it will work for all of the F-series. However, it's not a power attenuator (e.g. Hot Plate) it's a final master volume which helps the F-series achieve great low volume performance.

Just attach a short 1/4" instrument cable to the FX send jack and nothing else. Then, you will be able to control the final volume of the amp by the FX mix pot. This only works if you're not using any effects in the loop of course.

Tommi Inkila

03-25-2006, 06:51 PM

Few days off the board and I'm once again lagging many pages :)

Gig Report:

Just came back from a more-cover-oriented gig with Scenery Channel... it was quite an experience.

1) First we got parking tickets with our keyboard player. It used to be okay to park there.
2) No soundcheck. Great.
3) Then just before our set some drunken girls wants to say happy birthday their friend. Otherwise it was fine, but they were shouting to people to shut up and they started that looong speech.
4) Right side of the PA was out so we had to stop our first set early. Overall sound to audience was boomy to say at the least.
5) On that same set we were playing a song and then I noticed that my 7-stringer had few strings really out of tune. I wonder if somebody touched it before the show :rolleyes: I knew that my E, A, D were in tune so had to play with those and change the whole solo on the fly.
6) After the break. My volume pedal was at zero on the first note... my bad :)
7) Well after that mistake, everything went quite nicely and we got some energy from all the hassle that happened.
8) Missed a note in a slow-tempo solo.
9) Finally, I managed to forgot my phone to that gig place... well, our keyboardist saved it.

And now the good stuff.

1) The F sounded extremely fabulous and I received many thanks for it... thick and present, lush etc.
2) Nailed that UK solo :)
3) Crowd was pleased (girls especially).

In the end, it was a great practise for things to come :cool:

mr. tickles

03-25-2006, 08:03 PM

Originally posted by Dann'sTheMan

Hi Cam,

Welcome to HCAF and to the F-series Lounge. It's cool that you've made your first HC post here, and I hope you have as much fun with your F-50 and at HC as I do. Most importantly, welcome to the brotherhood. :)

Regarding the loop attenuator project, have you checked out the more detailed instructions posted on 6th January 2006? Let us know if you need more help. :cool:

So what kind of music do you play Cam? Do you play out much? Any pics or clips? :D

Big smiles,

Andy.

Thank you for the welcome Andy!

I play all kinds of stuff from Thursday to deftones to Chevelle to original stuff.

I do not play out. As of right now, this is all a great hobby that I got into about 3 years ago and has become a passion of mine as well as a great outlet for daily stress.

If the chance came up to play to play with some like minded folk, I would love to jam though.

I do have pics of my current rig at http://community.webshots.com/myphotos?action=viewAllPhotos&albumID=548910160&security=uOiuth

In regards to my problem with the volume pedal, should I post a pic of the internals and maybe you could trouble shoot from there?

Thanks again for the help and the welcome!

Cam

Tommi Inkila

03-26-2006, 08:57 AM

Hi guys!

Serious Scenery Channel Update:

http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=1200686

:) :cool:

Antti Loponen

03-26-2006, 01:21 PM

Originally posted by Torh

Ah, thanks for a good answer :) I guess I should be more open-minded to the F-50, then ;) As for the XTL, I wonder why Antii thinks it is best to run the Live in front, as I thought the modulation effects should be in the loop. Ah, well, I better send him a PM if he doesn't see this post in the near future.

Please, stop spelling my name wrong. It's Antti, not Antii :wave:

And on topic: It's not "wrong" to put effects before distortion. It just sounds different. Modulations don't get so up front when they're before distortion. If you use too much gain they can be totally lost, but I go for a tone with clarity so it gives me a perfect blend.

For delays, there's a problem with sound levels. Distortion compresses the echo repeats. It gives a nice organic sound that melts with the notes you play. It may not be what you want, but I like it. And then there's a second problem, when you set the level right on distortion, it's not audible on clean tones...but I can always make two delay patches :D

For reverb, again, you can't use a traditional reverb before distortion. But I use it as an effect. It gives a really interesting ambient tone that I use for leads riffs.

So my XT Live functions like a virtual programmable pedalboard. And gives stuff like parametric eq, tuner and noise gate on the same time. It's much easier to carry and set up than most pedalboards. And at the same time it's a ready backup system in case something would happen to my F-30 (as if!).

Dann'sTheMan

03-26-2006, 01:34 PM

Originally posted by Antti Loponen

Please, stop spelling my name wrong. It's Antti, not Antii :wave:

Ooops. Sorry Antti. I think it was me that misspelled it first. :o

DemiFrost

03-26-2006, 01:38 PM

In addition to my previous post, if it does get better at higher volumes, I'll most likely go with it as it's quite a bargain for what it's worth. I just gotta find out how to get higher gain sounds out of it without it being muddy.

I also don't really like the lack of a master volume though it's not that big of a problem.

If all goes well with bargaining with my parents and such, I should have...
-Mesa F-50 Medium Head
-Avatar G212H Custom (black with black metal grill, partially open back, 2 Eminence Wizards, casters)
-Weber Minimass Attenuator

and later:
-TC Electronics G-Major
-Behringer MIDI controller

I may try out a Single Rectifier if it's still not totally great though. :(

Surfcaster

03-26-2006, 08:47 PM

I spent a little time playing around with the various ways to control the volume on my F50 today...but first a little background.

After hearing Andy sing Dann Huff's praises (and being somewhat of a fan already), and being a big fan of 80's big hair music I finally broke down and downloaded Giant - Time to Burn from i-Tunes on Friday. I was immediately inspired to cop a few riffs. I was playing through the F50 with the Les Paul, no attenuation of any kind, but with the master just under 9:00. I noticed that when I was palm-muting, the sound coming out of my F50 had a "fuzzy" quality to it...comparing to the recording brought it to my attention because the mutes on the recording were much cleaner. I couldn't dial it out, but when I turned the master up to about 9:30, it was gone. And suddenly I remembered that I had discovered this long ago (even before I joined this lounge and saw much mention of this), but had forgotten. So I wanted to see if using either the loop attenuation or power attenuation (like a HotPlate, only using an inexpensive homemade attenuator) would enable me to keep the volume down, but get rid of the "fuzzy" quality.

Conclusion...it made no difference. Using my GE-7 to attenuate volume in the loop, or using my homemade attenuator between the amp and speaker, both had the same "fuzzy" quality as having the master set below 9:00. So it makes me wonder if, at least this particular "fuzzy" quality, is a speaker issue...maybe the speaker has to be working harder in order for the other frequencies to overpower that fuzziness? Any thoughts? Do others notice this fuzziness at lower volumes, regardless of whether you use attenuation of some sort or not (i.e., volumes equivalent to having the master just barely under 9:00) ?

One interesting thing, though...using both the loop attenuation and the power attenuation I was able to really crank the power amp...had the master up to around 3:00...the volume was a still a little too loud, but tolerable for a few minutes anyway!

DemiFrost

03-26-2006, 10:48 PM

Originally posted by Surfcaster
I was playing through the F50 with the Les Paul, no attenuation of any kind, but with the master just under 9:00. I noticed that when I was palm-muting, the sound coming out of my F50 had a "fuzzy" quality to it...comparing to the recording brought it to my attention because the mutes on the recording were much cleaner. I couldn't dial it out, but when I turned the master up to about 9:30, it was gone. And suddenly I remembered that I had discovered this long ago (even before I joined this lounge and saw much mention of this), but had forgotten. So I wanted to see if using either the loop attenuation or power attenuation (like a HotPlate, only using an inexpensive homemade attenuator) would enable me to keep the volume down, but get rid of the "fuzzy" quality.

Yay, I was hoping that would kill that palm mute fuzz. Though the attenuator problem doesn't sound very good.

Flannery

03-27-2006, 06:52 AM

Originally posted by Surfcaster
I spent a little time playing around with the various ways to control the volume on my F50 today...but first a little background.

After hearing Andy sing Dann Huff's praises (and being somewhat of a fan already), and being a big fan of 80's big hair music I finally broke down and downloaded Giant - Time to Burn from i-Tunes on Friday. I was immediately inspired to cop a few riffs. I was playing through the F50 with the Les Paul, no attenuation of any kind, but with the master just under 9:00. I noticed that when I was palm-muting, the sound coming out of my F50 had a "fuzzy" quality to it...comparing to the recording brought it to my attention because the mutes on the recording were much cleaner. I couldn't dial it out, but when I turned the master up to about 9:30, it was gone. And suddenly I remembered that I had discovered this long ago (even before I joined this lounge and saw much mention of this), but had forgotten. So I wanted to see if using either the loop attenuation or power attenuation (like a HotPlate, only using an inexpensive homemade attenuator) would enable me to keep the volume down, but get rid of the "fuzzy" quality.

Conclusion...it made no difference. Using my GE-7 to attenuate volume in the loop, or using my homemade attenuator between the amp and speaker, both had the same "fuzzy" quality as having the master set below 9:00. So it makes me wonder if, at least this particular "fuzzy" quality, is a speaker issue...maybe the speaker has to be working harder in order for the other frequencies to overpower that fuzziness? Any thoughts? Do others notice this fuzziness at lower volumes, regardless of whether you use attenuation of some sort or not (i.e., volumes equivalent to having the master just barely under 9:00) ?

One interesting thing, though...using both the loop attenuation and the power attenuation I was able to really crank the power amp...had the master up to around 3:00...the volume was a still a little too loud, but tolerable for a few minutes anyway!

Yes Surfcaster I've noticed the same problem with the fuzziness, but interestingly, I don't find it as pronounced through my 4x10 as through my 4x12. My 4x12 has 60 watt celestions in it and my 4x10 is a stock Peavey Classic (the speaker type escapes me right now...). My theory is that the smaller speaker has a little less mass, so it's "snappier", leading to a more defined sound...but less bottom end. If you have access to a 4x10 you might want to test this out.....

markmann

03-27-2006, 07:55 AM

Originally posted by Tommi Inkila
Few days off the board and I'm once again lagging many pages :)

Gig Report:

Just came back from a more-cover-oriented gig with Scenery Channel... it was quite an experience.

1) First we got parking tickets with our keyboard player. It used to be okay to park there.
2) No soundcheck. Great.
3) Then just before our set some drunken girls wants to say happy birthday their friend. Otherwise it was fine, but they were shouting to people to shut up and they started that looong speech.
4) Right side of the PA was out so we had to stop our first set early. Overall sound to audience was boomy to say at the least.
5) On that same set we were playing a song and then I noticed that my 7-stringer had few strings really out of tune. I wonder if somebody touched it before the show :rolleyes: I knew that my E, A, D were in tune so had to play with those and change the whole solo on the fly.
6) After the break. My volume pedal was at zero on the first note... my bad :)
7) Well after that mistake, everything went quite nicely and we got some energy from all the hassle that happened.
8) Missed a note in a slow-tempo solo.
9) Finally, I managed to forgot my phone to that gig place... well, our keyboardist saved it.

And now the good stuff.

1) The F sounded extremely fabulous and I received many thanks for it... thick and present, lush etc.
2) Nailed that UK solo :)
3) Crowd was pleased (girls especially).

In the end, it was a great practise for things to come :cool: Thanks for the update, Tommi... I feel your pain with regard to playing live. Seems like lately I've run into more than my share of surprises playing out. Why is it that technical problems are directly related to the size of the audience you're about to play for?

Was the UK song "In the dead of night?" I love that tune, actually any UK and it's some of my favorite Holdsworth. Definitely a bonus that the ladies enjoyed it :thu:

Tommi Inkila

03-27-2006, 08:21 AM

Originally posted by markmann
Thanks for the update, Tommi... I feel your pain with regard to playing live. Seems like lately I've run into more than my share of surprises playing out. Why is it that technical problems are directly related to the size of the audience you're about to play for?

Was the UK song "In the dead of night?" I love that tune, actually any UK and it's some of my favorite Holdsworth. Definitely a bonus that the ladies enjoyed it :thu:
Heh, there's always some problems :)

Yep, it was "In the dead of the night"... got my own Holdsworth-Inkila approach to it :D

I'm happy we attract girls a lot although our style is what it is... probably it's our singer's fault :p

Hey, checkout our extended clips on our site... link to topic http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=1200686 :cool:

klvanzu

03-27-2006, 02:36 PM

so guys I just bought a new mesa vertical 2X12 cab and it has a couple english made v30s in it... well it sounds like shit with the f-50 and I am definitely going to switch them out for something new. I was wondering if anyone had any suggestions. Obviously I play blues, classic rock, modern rock and some metal (f-50 territory :) ) and i've been looking into eminence speakers. I want a speaker that won't break up as soon unlike the v30s - I was very interested in the wizard, man-o-war, swamp thing, and texas heat... if anyone has any experience with these or can recommend me something that can give me some nicer clean tones and not as many mids that doesn't break up as soon, then please feel free to give me some recommendations.

NiCkMiLnE

03-27-2006, 04:19 PM

okay!

mesa lover on a budget,

i love petrucci's tone. the whole american, smooth , signatue mesa tone...just love the hell outta it!
but im a rut...

f30, or f50?
the 50 is £400 more expensive here!
i tried the 30 and loved it, mesa tone ..but with a tiny bit of bark? quite petrucci/usa tone..and am yet to try the 50 to see if its worth the extra £400
the tone i have in my head is tommis 'seveno' all over! thats IS my dream lead tone:D

opinions?

DemiFrost

03-27-2006, 06:45 PM

Bump.

Hey Tommi, I was wondering what speakers you'd recommend with a F-50. I play pretty much the same genre as you, maybe sometimes a little heavier, but mostly progressive/power metal.

I'm gonna be getting a 2x12 from Avatar if/when I finally get the F-50, which I'm pretty much set on. The 4x12 at the store was quite loud, so I'm pretty worried about getting a good tone at low volumes unless I can get an attenuator as well.

hal9000

03-27-2006, 07:03 PM

Originally posted by DemiFrost
Bump.

Hey Tommi, I was wondering what speakers you'd recommend with a F-50. I play pretty much the same genre as you, maybe sometimes a little heavier, but mostly progressive/power metal.

I'm gonna be getting a 2x12 from Avatar if/when I finally get the F-50, which I'm pretty much set on. The 4x12 at the store was quite loud, so I'm pretty worried about getting a good tone at low volumes unless I can get an attenuator as well. I know Tommi uses V30s as do I, and I've been very pleased with the results. If you're going with an Avatar, check out the Hellatone 60s, which are V30s that are already broken-in.

DemiFrost

03-27-2006, 07:31 PM

Originally posted by hal9000
I know Tommi uses V30s as do I, and I've been very pleased with the results. If you're going with an Avatar, check out the Hellatone 60s, which are V30s that are already broken-in.

Yeah, I was thinking of using those for a while, then I thought about maybe using Eminence Wizards, but why not? At least I know what V30's sound like with the F-50. :D

klvanzu

03-27-2006, 10:34 PM

hey hal, I have two v30s in a vertical mesa cab and I've noticed that when I play cleans at a decently loud volume (10 or above) that the speakers buzz. Now I thought that something might be loose and causing it but I've checked everything out and I'm also retolexing and regrilling the cab so I have everything taken apart right now. Then I checked the speakers and they are older (english made v30s) and they are in perfect condition. The buzzing only occurs when I hit certain lower notes and I was wondering if this was just regular speaker break up or if something is wrong. I'm not a big fan of the v30s in the first place just because they sound a little too middy for my tastes but I wouldn't mind keeping one in and swaping the other out. They sound fine when I play anything with distortion and don't seem to buzz but that might just be because the volume is loud and I can't hear it when playing rock and metal stuff. Do you have any idea of what could be wrong? or is this just regular speaker breakup?

Tommi Inkila

03-28-2006, 04:21 AM

Originally posted by NiCkMiLnE
okay!
the tone i have in my head is tommis 'seveno' all over! thats IS my dream lead tone:D

opinions?
Hey thanks.

I tested the F-series first with F30 combo... I liked it a lot although I feft that it was probably a little bit too "snappy" and hollow end... well, for small combo it had the low-end.

If I have to make somekind of stupid generalization I'd say F30 has more Images and Words -sound and F50 20th century.

Hope that helps a bit :rolleyes:

Tommi Inkila

03-28-2006, 04:24 AM

Originally posted by DemiFrost
Bump.

Hey Tommi, I was wondering what speakers you'd recommend with a F-50. I play pretty much the same genre as you, maybe sometimes a little heavier, but mostly progressive/power metal.

I'm gonna be getting a 2x12 from Avatar if/when I finally get the F-50, which I'm pretty much set on. The 4x12 at the store was quite loud, so I'm pretty worried about getting a good tone at low volumes unless I can get an attenuator as well.
Like Hal said I'm using V30's and recommend them especially in our genre. I think that closed-back would be better also. What's good about 2x12" is that it's tighter than it's bigger brother.

I haven't tested the head with many different speakers, but I could imagine that there's elements that probably brings out the low-end better, but you'll loose the crunch of v30's.

Torh

03-28-2006, 05:55 AM

Originally posted by Antti Loponen

Please, stop spelling my name wrong. It's Antti, not Antii :wave:

And on topic: It's not "wrong" to put effects before distortion. It just sounds different. Modulations don't get so up front when they're before distortion. If you use too much gain they can be totally lost, but I go for a tone with clarity so it gives me a perfect blend.

For delays, there's a problem with sound levels. Distortion compresses the echo repeats. It gives a nice organic sound that melts with the notes you play. It may not be what you want, but I like it. And then there's a second problem, when you set the level right on distortion, it's not audible on clean tones...but I can always make two delay patches :D

For reverb, again, you can't use a traditional reverb before distortion. But I use it as an effect. It gives a really interesting ambient tone that I use for leads riffs.

So my XT Live functions like a virtual programmable pedalboard. And gives stuff like parametric eq, tuner and noise gate on the same time. It's much easier to carry and set up than most pedalboards. And at the same time it's a ready backup system in case something would happen to my F-30 (as if!).

Sorry I named you wrong there ;) In fact, I see I must reconsider my plans now, but I will not have to make the decision now. So, thanks for a helpful answer :)

hal9000

03-28-2006, 06:30 AM

Originally posted by klvanzu
hey hal, I have two v30s in a vertical mesa cab and I've noticed that when I play cleans at a decently loud volume (10 or above) that the speakers buzz. Now I thought that something might be loose and causing it but I've checked everything out and I'm also retolexing and regrilling the cab so I have everything taken apart right now. Then I checked the speakers and they are older (english made v30s) and they are in perfect condition. The buzzing only occurs when I hit certain lower notes and I was wondering if this was just regular speaker break up or if something is wrong. I'm not a big fan of the v30s in the first place just because they sound a little too middy for my tastes but I wouldn't mind keeping one in and swaping the other out. They sound fine when I play anything with distortion and don't seem to buzz but that might just be because the volume is loud and I can't hear it when playing rock and metal stuff. Do you have any idea of what could be wrong? or is this just regular speaker breakup? Hmm... These kinds of issues are always hard to diagnose without being there in person, but I think you may have a mechanical buzz. Vintage 30s can take up to 70 W, or 140 W per 2x12 according to Mesa, and with the F-50 @ 10:00 on the master and let's say 11:00 on the gain you're probably only putting out a few watts. I play my F-100's clean channel on gain=12:00, and master=11:00 with no audible buzz or rattle (other than everything else in the room :)). There may be a few things that could be wrong:

1) The speakers might not be attached tightly enough to the baffle.
2) The back of the cab might not be tight enough.
3) Your may have a microphonic power tube(s).
4) You might hear other things in the room vibrating, but think it's your amp.
5) The speakers might have been abused before you got them, but you can usually tell that by a thorough visual inspection.

Do you have any other cabs to try out?

I hope I've given you some things to try.

markmann

03-28-2006, 07:21 AM

markmann

03-28-2006, 07:32 AM

klvanzu, here's a great thread you should check out:

Here (http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1106969&perpage=20&highlight=f50&pagenumber=1)

klvanzu

03-28-2006, 08:40 AM

Originally posted by hal9000
Hmm... These kinds of issues are always hard to diagnose without being there in person, but I think you may have a mechanical buzz. Vintage 30s can take up to 70 W, or 140 W per 2x12 according to Mesa, and with the F-50 @ 10:00 on the master and let's say 11:00 on the gain you're probably only putting out a few watts. I play my F-100's clean channel on gain=12:00, and master=11:00 with no audible buzz or rattle (other than everything else in the room :)). There may be a few things that could be wrong:

1) The speakers might not be attached tightly enough to the baffle.
2) The back of the cab might not be tight enough.
3) Your may have a microphonic power tube(s).
4) You might hear other things in the room vibrating, but think it's your amp.
5) The speakers might have been abused before you got them, but you can usually tell that by a thorough visual inspection.

Do you have any other cabs to try out?

I hope I've given you some things to try.

Well I'm positive the speakers are attached tightly because I took them out and put them back in myself along with the back of the cab and also left the back off and tried and the speakers still buzzed. I used the f-50 with a friend's 4x12 cab the other day and it sounded fine. I am also positive it's nothing else in the room and I have looked over the speakers carefully and they check out fine. I guess it's kinda why I'm so confused because I've checked everything over repeatedly. The v30s aren't my favorite speakers anyway and I will most likely be changing them but I would also like to sell them to fund new ones, and I don't want to sell someone a bad speaker. The thing is, they sound fine for distortion and even many times with cleans - it's just at certain times when I hit a few of the lower notes and pick the string reasonably hard.

NiCkMiLnE

03-28-2006, 08:42 AM

Originally posted by Tommi Inkila

Hey thanks.

I tested the F-series first with F30 combo... I liked it a lot although I feft that it was probably a little bit too "snappy" and hollow end... well, for small combo it had the low-end.

If I have to make somekind of stupid generalization I'd say F30 has more Images and Words -sound and F50 20th century.

Hope that helps a bit :rolleyes:
cheers tommi!

any other guys opinions of the f-30/50 ?

Surfcaster

03-28-2006, 12:15 PM

Originally posted by klvanzu

Well I'm positive the speakers are attached tightly because I took them out and put them back in myself along with the back of the cab and also left the back off and tried and the speakers still buzzed. I used the f-50 with a friend's 4x12 cab the other day and it sounded fine. I am also positive it's nothing else in the room and I have looked over the speakers carefully and they check out fine. I guess it's kinda why I'm so confused because I've checked everything over repeatedly. The v30s aren't my favorite speakers anyway and I will most likely be changing them but I would also like to sell them to fund new ones, and I don't want to sell someone a bad speaker. The thing is, they sound fine for distortion and even many times with cleans - it's just at certain times when I hit a few of the lower notes and pick the string reasonably hard.

Just wanted to throw in here that the other day I thought sure my tubes were rattling in the amp if I turned the volume up to 9:30-10:00, but when I tried to isolate the sound, it ended up being some old drinking glasses stored in a cabinet near the amp rattling against each other. Made sure they weren't touching anymore...problem solved. Try moving the amp/cab around the room, see if that makes any difference. If not, get close to the amp/cab while the noise is happening and see if you can pinpoint the location of the source....listen from different sides of the amp/cab and different angles...just to see if it's really coming from the speakers themselves or some other part of the amp/cab.

If you still think it's the speakers, do you have anything else you can hook the speakers up to...another amp or anything at all? Or maybe try one speaker at a time by disconnecting each one in turn (making sure you're plugged into the correct impedance jack).

Surfcaster

03-28-2006, 12:22 PM

Originally posted by NiCkMiLnE

cheers tommi!

any other guys opinions of the f-30/50 ?

It's been 2.5 years since I bought my F50, so the memory's are a little fuzzy anymore, but I was planning to buy an F30. I placed them side by side (and had a trusted guitar playing friend with me) and really found them to be very similar sounding, but we felt the F50 had just a bit more bottom end and of course a little more clean headroom. I play mostly classic rock and 80's hard rock and felt the F50 was enough better for me it was worth the extra $$. Depending on the type of music you play and your own personal preferences, YMMV.

NiCkMiLnE

03-28-2006, 12:24 PM

i play shred, metal, hard rock and blues

DemiFrost

03-28-2006, 01:41 PM

Originally posted by Tommi Inkila

Like Hal said I'm using V30's and recommend them especially in our genre. I think that closed-back would be better also. What's good about 2x12" is that it's tighter than it's bigger brother.

I haven't tested the head with many different speakers, but I could imagine that there's elements that probably brings out the low-end better, but you'll loose the crunch of v30's.

Ah, I see, thanks.

Would you say open or closed back is better?

NiCkMiLnE

03-28-2006, 01:44 PM

depends what your after ;)

closed = more bass

klvanzu

03-28-2006, 03:20 PM

Originally posted by Surfcaster

Just wanted to throw in here that the other day I thought sure my tubes were rattling in the amp if I turned the volume up to 9:30-10:00, but when I tried to isolate the sound, it ended up being some old drinking glasses stored in a cabinet near the amp rattling against each other. Made sure they weren't touching anymore...problem solved. Try moving the amp/cab around the room, see if that makes any difference. If not, get close to the amp/cab while the noise is happening and see if you can pinpoint the location of the source....listen from different sides of the amp/cab and different angles...just to see if it's really coming from the speakers themselves or some other part of the amp/cab.

If you still think it's the speakers, do you have anything else you can hook the speakers up to...another amp or anything at all? Or maybe try one speaker at a time by disconnecting each one in turn (making sure you're plugged into the correct impedance jack).

yeah I have done that and also listened closely to the speakers and I know that's what's doing it. I never had v30s before though and I didn't know if it was normal or if there was something wrong. They sound fine below 9 on cleans but when i crank the amp a lil more they start buzzing. The distortion sounds good like i said, just a little mid heavy for my tastes.

Alchemist

03-28-2006, 03:27 PM

I run my F-30 head into a 4*12 closeback cab with V-30's. They have more mid focus and while playing alone they feel harder to dial in, however in a band situation, they cut through the mix very well, which I personaly find helpfull for mesa amps which are naturaly very dark and smooth, which makes it harder to cut through.

My favourite speakers for playing solo is actualy a combination of a Weber Ceramic Silver Bell, and a Weber Ceramic Blue Dog, incredible tone to my ears.

Surfcaster

03-29-2006, 08:14 AM

Originally posted by klvanzu

yeah I have done that and also listened closely to the speakers and I know that's what's doing it. I never had v30s before though and I didn't know if it was normal or if there was something wrong. They sound fine below 9 on cleans but when i crank the amp a lil more they start buzzing. The distortion sounds good like i said, just a little mid heavy for my tastes.

Well, my V30 has never made any funky noises, and it's been driven pretty hard by the F50 at times, both alone and in combination with the C90. Did you try each speaker individually to see if both of them are doing it, or if it's just one?

I agree that the V30 is a little too mid-heavy by itself for my tastes, though I find it works well in combination with the C90.

klvanzu

03-29-2006, 01:34 PM

actually I posted at a couple other forums and then came across this website that helps diagnose speaker problems and found out that the basket separated from the voice coil slightly. It was a very easy fix so I plan on keeping that speaker and selling the other one. Do you have an idea of where I could buy a c90? I've been looking everywhere, even ebay, and haven't been able to spot one. From what I hear it'd be exactly what I'm looking for :)

bowen71

03-29-2006, 01:51 PM

Originally posted by klvanzu
actually I posted at a couple other forums and then came across this website that helps diagnose speaker problems and found out that the basket separated from the voice coil slightly. It was a very easy fix so I plan on keeping that speaker and selling the other one. Do you have an idea of where I could buy a c90? I've been looking everywhere, even ebay, and haven't been able to spot one. From what I hear it'd be exactly what I'm looking for :)

http://store.yahoo.com/mesa/gigbagandsli.ht

$109

klvanzu

03-29-2006, 03:43 PM

thanks!

gnojedre

04-01-2006, 09:35 AM

Hi,

Today I had my first try with my new gear.
F-50 , g-system.

Wooooooooooooooooooooooooow

What a sound I have now.
I also hooked 3 old drivepedals to the g system so I have 6 basic sounds...

1 thing I dont understand is : why did mesaboogie made the loop go to 90% and not to 100% effectsignal.

I use volume swells a lot and now the dry sound is coming thru , when the volumepedal is set to 0....

Channel switching works great with the cable made by the shoptechnician...

Ok I go back to playing now , I love it. What an improvement on the flextone from line 6...

O yeah I also have a stereo setup now.
A 1x12" cabinet (homemade) with an Hughes and Kettner CF100 (100wat mosfet poweramp).

Greattttttttttttt

Greetings from the Netherlands.
Eric

thrash

04-01-2006, 02:19 PM

Well It's Here, My Very Own F-100

Well I got my F-100 about a week ago. I'll start with the bad first.

UPS damaged it during shipping and the reverb does not work on either channel. I'm still waiting for them to take care of the problem.

The good news, it's the most well rounded head I've ever played! It covers a wide range from great cleans to high gain metal. Anyone who says the F-Series can't do metal is likely a immature juvenile who thinks solid states are the only real metal tone.

I have a 5150 II. Great head, expecally for metal, but it can't cover the range like the F-series. The leads on the F are fuller sounding as well. I can only imagine how well it will sound once the reverb is working.

Another thing, I think 100 watts is too much for me, even on 60 watts I can't turn it up much at the house if I want to keep my hearing. I'm going to have to get a hotplate or something.

A friend stopped over and played it. He offered to trade me his JCM 900 and some cash on the spot. He was blown away.

I think I'd like a compressor pedal as well to complete my rig, F-100, Mesa 3/4 back 2x12, Ibanez Jem, RG 570 with Dimarzio Breed/Paf Joe, and a ESP with EMG's.

Any insider tips on making this F sound even better let me know.

hal9000

04-01-2006, 02:49 PM

Originally posted by thrash
Well It's Here, My Very Own F-100

Well I got my F-100 about a week ago. I'll start with the bad first.

<snip>

Any insider tips on making this F sound even better let me know. Congrats on the F-100! I've been pleased with mine for over three years now.

IF your reverb isn't working you likely have lost one of the connections that go to the reverb tank. They are usually RCA-type phono connectors and you should be able to see which is loose. If there aren't any obvious cables disconnected, you may need a new reverb tank, which Mesa will replace of course. It's really easy BTW.

To tame the volume, first try this. Connect an unused 1/4" cable to the FX SEND jack and don't plug it into anything. Turn your OD Master up to about 10:00 with the gain around 12:00 and then reduce the overall volume by using the FX MIX pot on the back of the amp. If that doesn't do it for you, try a volume pedal or FX processor in the loop to reduce volume. I find that my G-Major is better at getting a great low volume tone out my amp than my Hot Plate is. :)

As for settings here are a few to try out:

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y34/afraiddave/hal9000SurfcasterF-seriesChimeyLigh.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y34/afraiddave/hal9000AndysModedMarshallTone.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y34/afraiddave/hal9000CrunchSetting.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y34/afraiddave/hal9000sF-SeriesAuditionSettingsrevA.jpg

thrash

04-01-2006, 04:50 PM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by hal9000
[B]Congrats on the F-100! I've been pleased with mine for over three years now.

IF your reverb isn't working you likely have lost one of the connections that go to the reverb tank. They are usually RCA-type phono connectors and you should be able to see which is loose. If there aren't any obvious cables disconnected, you may need a new reverb tank, which Mesa will replace of course. It's really easy BTW.

Can I you see the reverb connections from the back of the amp or do I have to take it apart?

inkwachemis

04-01-2006, 05:41 PM

Whats a good price on a used F50 head?

anyone got one they want to sell me?

hal9000

04-01-2006, 06:46 PM

Originally posted by thrash
[QUOTE]Originally posted by hal9000
[B]Congrats on the F-100! I've been pleased with mine for over three years now.

IF your reverb isn't working you likely have lost one of the connections that go to the reverb tank. They are usually RCA-type phono connectors and you should be able to see which is loose. If there aren't any obvious cables disconnected, you may need a new reverb tank, which Mesa will replace of course. It's really easy BTW.

Can I you see the reverb connections from the back of the amp or do I have to take it apart? You should be able to see two lines coming from the amp chassis (Reverb Send/return) and two connections on the reverb tank (the metal rectangular box at the bottom of the head). Everything should be plugged-in and tight.

Also, you might just have the reverb turned off at the footswitch. Unplug the footswitch and see if the reverb comes on.

thrash

04-01-2006, 09:23 PM

Checked the connections on the reverb tank and one was loose. Works great now! Thanks Again.

I'm sure I'll be consulting this forum more in the future. Tomarrow I'm putting a new set of JJ's in.

Antti Loponen

04-02-2006, 09:32 AM

Originally posted by gnojedre
Hi,

Today I had my first try with my new gear.
F-50 , g-system.

Wooooooooooooooooooooooooow

What a sound I have now.
I also hooked 3 old drivepedals to the g system so I have 6 basic sounds...

Are the G-System and the drive pedals in the effects loop?

gnojedre

04-02-2006, 01:59 PM

Originally posted by Antti Loponen

Are the G-System and the drive pedals in the effects loop?

The Gsystem has in fact 2 units in it.

1 comp-loops-filters
2 digital effects

so guitar goes in the gsystem , then after the first unit it goes to the front of the f-50.
Then the send of the effects loop goes in the digital effects of the gsystem and the out goes back to the return of the f50.

Works flawlessly

I soon will post pics of my new gear...

Eric

gnojedre

04-02-2006, 02:24 PM

hereby pics of my new gear.....

Eric

hal9000

04-02-2006, 02:27 PM

Originally posted by thrash
Checked the connections on the reverb tank and one was loose. Works great now! Thanks Again.

I'm sure I'll be consulting this forum more in the future. Tomarrow I'm putting a new set of JJ's in. Thrash, I'm glad I could help! :)

bjjp2

04-02-2006, 04:55 PM

Can someone tell me how much the F-30 and F-50 weigh? (I couldn't find the info on the website and this thread is just too huge to go through!). Thanks.

thrash

04-02-2006, 09:36 PM

I retubed my F-100 with JJ tubes, sounds great. A friend of mine and I ran it through the ringer, shred, neoclassical, jazz, metal and it sounded great. He has a Mesa DC model and was really impressed with the F-100.

Dann'sTheMan

04-03-2006, 01:52 AM

Originally posted by bjjp2
Can someone tell me how much the F-30 and F-50 weigh? (I couldn't find the info on the website and this thread is just too huge to go through!). Thanks.

Hi bjjp2,

The details are on Page 8 of the Mesa Product Guide (http://www.mesaboogie.com/Product_Info/Product_Guide/ProdRef_0206.pdf): :)

F30 COMBO .......47 lbs
F30 HEAD .......22 lbs
F50 COMBO .......54 lbs
F50 HEAD .......35 lbs
F100 COMBO .......81 lbs
F100 HEAD .......49 lbs

Big smiles,

Andy.

Surfcaster

04-03-2006, 07:40 AM

Hey Thrash,

First of all, congrats on the amp! They are great amps...and yes, they are loud...all of 'em from the 100 down to the 30. Personally, I have an F50 1x12 combo and I have not found a way to get the volume down to household levels without compromising the tone. As I posted earlier I found the tone to be the same whether I used an attenuator, volume control in the effects loop or simply turning the master down. But it's not BAD at low volumes...just a little fizzier/fuzzier...stills sounds better than a lot of amps cranked!

Secondly, I'm very interested in seeing some pics of your 3/4 back 2x12 cab, both front and back. Is it a vertical or horizontal cab? And what part of the back is open...top? middle? off-center? I'm curious because I built my own 2x12 cab and have been playing around with the back...was open, now is closed...and I'm interested in the 3/4 back idea as well and would like to know how Mesa does it.

Thanks!

Dann'sTheMan

04-03-2006, 09:17 AM

Hi gnojedre,

Your rig looks awesome - so much tonal power from such a portable system. :thu: Makes me wonder if I made the right choice going for a separate Rack and MIDI controller to run with my F-50. :p

Big smiles,

Andy.

Dann'sTheMan

04-03-2006, 09:18 AM

Hi thrash,

Congratulations on the arrival of your F-100. Great to see the amp is already making a big impression with your guitaring friends. :cool: As for ways to make it sound better, check out all of the methods discussed in this thread for getting a better tone than the amp's Master Volume alone at lower decibel levels: Attenuator, Line Level attenuator, Jack in Send socket. :)

Big smiles,

Andy.

plumptone

04-04-2006, 02:06 PM

Hey all. I'm brand new here. (I do post to the Boogie Board occasionally as well). I've been a Boogie user since 1988. My first was a Studio .22. I then acquired a 50 Caliber head and a 2 x 12 road ready cab to cover those gigs when the Studio .22 wasn't enough for the room. Eventually the Studio .22 got tired, and I got tired of lugging around the 50 caliber and cab, and sold both. Huge mistake. Anyway, I ended up replacing both of those with a DC-3, which I still use and have been playing for roughly 10 years now. Once again, I'm taking the plunge. The DC-3 is getting tired, and I'm blowing through tubes at quite a rate because I'm driving the amp so hard. What to get?

I auditioned a Vox AC30, both the Lonestars, the F-30 (just in case), the F-50 and the Mark IV. For a while I considered trying to find a Mark II C+, bot the prices on those have gone through the roof. I liked the Mark IV a lot, but it seems a bit much. I'm definitely not afraid to tweak, but it's a very expensive amp.

The F-50 seemed to be everything that I need. Plenty of headroom for the medium size rooms I play. A great sound, especially in the clean channel, and very versatile - not unlike my trusty .22 caliber and now my DC-3. So I decided that's the way to go. But here's the thing. This will probably be the last time I buy another amp. I've said that before, but I really do think that this time it will be true. It's got plenty of power and seems to cover all the sonic ground I need. Since that's the case, I want to do it *just* right.

So....I ordered one last Friday. I'm getting it built in bubinga, with a wicker grille, leather carrying handle, and the original "Boogie" logo on the grille front. I am SO excited about this, and I just cannot wait to show this beauty off when it finally arrives.

Just needed to share. Thanks for reading.

musicdog400

04-04-2006, 02:16 PM

I bet that will look awesome. Post a pic when you get it if you can.

Dann'sTheMan

04-04-2006, 05:30 PM

Originally posted by plumptone
Hey all. I'm brand new here. (I do post to the Boogie Board occasionally as well). I've been a Boogie user since 1988. My first was a Studio .22. I then acquired a 50 Caliber head and a 2 x 12 road ready cab to cover those gigs when the Studio .22 wasn't enough for the room. Eventually the Studio .22 got tired, and I got tired of lugging around the 50 caliber and cab, and sold both. Huge mistake. Anyway, I ended up replacing both of those with a DC-3, which I still use and have been playing for roughly 10 years now. Once again, I'm taking the plunge. The DC-3 is getting tired, and I'm blowing through tubes at quite a rate because I'm driving the amp so hard. What to get?

I auditioned a Vox AC30, both the Lonestars, the F-30 (just in case), the F-50 and the Mark IV. For a while I considered trying to find a Mark II C+, bot the prices on those have gone through the roof. I liked the Mark IV a lot, but it seems a bit much. I'm definitely not afraid to tweak, but it's a very expensive amp.

The F-50 seemed to be everything that I need. Plenty of headroom for the medium size rooms I play. A great sound, especially in the clean channel, and very versatile - not unlike my trusty .22 caliber and now my DC-3. So I decided that's the way to go. But here's the thing. This will probably be the last time I buy another amp. I've said that before, but I really do think that this time it will be true. It's got plenty of power and seems to cover all the sonic ground I need. Since that's the case, I want to do it *just* right.

So....I ordered one last Friday. I'm getting it built in bubinga, with a wicker grille, leather carrying handle, and the original "Boogie" logo on the grille front. I am SO excited about this, and I just cannot wait to show this beauty off when it finally arrives.

Just needed to share. Thanks for reading.

Hi plumptone,

Welcome to the F-series brotherhood here at HCAF. What a cool story - as you may know the F-50's design evolution dates back to the Studio .22 (more here (http://www.mesaboogie.com/Reviews/guitarist-F-50/Designing_f-50.htm) ), so you've rich experience in its Boogie heritage. :)

Please do share the pics when it arrives. I'm speculating your amp will be the big brother to this gorgeous F-30. :cool:

http://www.mesaboogie.com/gallery/images/f30_w2w.jpg

Big smiles,

Andy.

gnojedre

04-05-2006, 04:43 AM

Originally posted by Dann'sTheMan
Hi gnojedre,

Your rig looks awesome - so much tonal power from such a portable system. :thu: Makes me wonder if I made the right choice going for a separate Rack and MIDI controller to run with my F-50. :p

Big smiles,

Andy.

Thanx Andy,

Yesterday I had my first rehearsal with the new gear....Sounded great.

There is one thing I must change.Now I have four long cables running from my G-system to the Amp.

1 guitar signal
2 send effects loop Boogie to the G-system
3 out of the G-system to the return of the Boogie
4 channel switch cable

I would like to combine these in 1 cable.

You have any Idea how this can be done.
I'm afraid that signals running trhu the cables when tied together might cause some interference..

Eric

Dann'sTheMan

04-05-2006, 05:42 AM

Originally posted by gnojedre

Thanx Andy,

Yesterday I had my first rehearsal with the new gear....Sounded great.

There is one thing I must change.Now I have four long cables running from my G-system to the Amp.

1 guitar signal
2 send effects loop Boogie to the G-system
3 out of the G-system to the return of the Boogie
4 channel switch cable

I would like to combine these in 1 cable.

You have any Idea how this can be done.
I'm afraid that signals running trhu the cables when tied together might cause some interference..

Eric

Hi Eric,

In order to minimise cross-talk, just look for the best quality shielded cables that you can find. Unfortunately any unbalanced cable can be susceptible, but if the shielding is good quality, then there shouldn't be too much impact.

If it were me, and if I was happy with the four cables I was already using, then I'd simply cable tie them every metre or so, or I'd put them in a spiral cable tidy.

The other approach, I would consider would be to mount the G-System's processor engine in a rack near the amp, but this of course compromises the portability. Best wishes in making a decision. :)

Big smiles,

Andy.

plumptone

04-05-2006, 06:01 AM

Andy - thanks for the welcome. Im hoping the new F-50 will look just like the big brother of that gorgeous F-30.

I'm aware that the F-50 traces its heritage back to the old Studio .22. I think it's one of the reasons I love the way it sounds, and that obciously had something to do with my decision to go ahead with this purchase. I will definitely post pics when this thing arrives. I'm told it takes 10-12 weeks. So only 9-11 more weeks to go!

I'm enjoying reading this forum a great deal and looking forward to getting my hands on the amp so that I can start the process of rig integration. Current set-up is as follows:

Strat/tele > dunlop wah>Q-tron>mxr dynacomp.mxr phase 90>DC-3.

FX send to digitech digital delay pedal (an old one)>rack tuner>rack chorus (midiverb) [on/off by mometary switch]>rack reverb>FX return.

All powered by a Furman Power conditioner.

Once it gets here I'm considering doing a stero rig using the F-50 as the sender and left channel, and running into the DC-3's power amp section as the right channel. Should sound BIG.

Again, thanks for the welcome.

Surfcaster

04-05-2006, 08:05 AM

Sounds cool, Plumptone. And I guess you're pretty committed when you order a customized version of the amp like that
! :) But it should be beautiful and I'm anxious to see it!

phyrexia

04-05-2006, 12:36 PM

Ok guys, I have a problem. When I turn the gain up high on the drive channel, it makes a high pitched squealing noise. The pitch of the squeal goes up as the gain nob goes past 2:00 or 3:00.

This is a microphonic preamp tube, right? Which one is it? I didn't look at the pre tubes when I changed my power tubes.

gnojedre

04-05-2006, 12:46 PM

Hi,

Anyone here can tell me why the mix of the loop cant go to 100%.
Is there a way (besides modding) to overcome this problem?

Eric

thrash

04-05-2006, 01:10 PM

I'm correct that the F-100 does not have a Master Volume arn't I? It has a gain and a volume. My amps with master volumes in the past had a Gain, a Volume per channel, and a Master volume for both channels.

Since this is true would something like this work well for a master volume http://cgi.ebay.com/VOLUMEBOX-FOR-PEAVEY-DELTA-BLUES-CLASSIC-30-50-212-5150_W0QQitemZ7403316748QQcategoryZ38076QQrdZ1QQcm dZViewItem

Anyone use one?

hal9000

04-05-2006, 01:31 PM

Originally posted by thrash
I'm correct that the F-100 does not have a Master Volume arn't I? It has a gain and a volume. My amps with master volumes in the past had a Gain, a Volume per channel, and a Master volume for both channels.

Since this is true would something like this work well for a master volume http://cgi.ebay.com/VOLUMEBOX-FOR-PEAVEY-DELTA-BLUES-CLASSIC-30-50-212-5150_W0QQitemZ7403316748QQcategoryZ38076QQrdZ1QQcm dZViewItem

Anyone use one? That's the volume-pedal-in-the-loop trick we're always talking about. You don't need that if you're not using the loop. Just connect a 1/4" cable to the send jack (and nothing else) and the mix pot becomes your overall master. If you are using the loop, at least one of your FX devices should have an output level control which will do the same function.

When people refer to "master volume" they usually mean that you can get overdrive with the gain knob and volume by the master. So, in that case, the F-series does have a master volume per channel, just no overall master for both of the channels. Non-master volume amps have a single knob for gain and volume. The higher it goes the more volume AND gain you get like a Plexi.

hal9000

04-05-2006, 01:34 PM

Originally posted by gnojedre
Hi,

Anyone here can tell me why the mix of the loop cant go to 100%.
Is there a way (besides modding) to overcome this problem?

Eric It doesn't go to 100% because there is always a parallel path from the preamp. I don't really see the need for 100% wet since you won't be able to hear the parallel signal when the loop is up full. I've been running my G-Major @ 90% mix for a while now and it sounds great. Most of the problems people have with the loop are due to impedance and level mismatch, and not because of the loop percentage.

Are you having a problem?

hal9000

04-05-2006, 01:38 PM

Originally posted by phyrexia
Ok guys, I have a problem. When I turn the gain up high on the drive channel, it makes a high pitched squealing noise. The pitch of the squeal goes up as the gain nob goes past 2:00 or 3:00.

This is a microphonic preamp tube, right? Which one is it? I didn't look at the pre tubes when I changed my power tubes. V2 is the likely culprit since it's the boost for channel 2.

Surfcaster

04-05-2006, 02:19 PM

Originally posted by thrash
I'm correct that the F-100 does not have a Master Volume arn't I? It has a gain and a volume. My amps with master volumes in the past had a Gain, a Volume per channel, and a Master volume for both channels.

Since this is true would something like this work well for a master volume http://cgi.ebay.com/VOLUMEBOX-FOR-PEAVEY-DELTA-BLUES-CLASSIC-30-50-212-5150_W0QQitemZ7403316748QQcategoryZ38076QQrdZ1QQcm dZViewItem

Anyone use one?

What people are often referring to when they speak of a Master Volume is a volume control that's post Phase-Inverter, which I honestly don't fully understand, but I think is a little different than the way the F50 is set up. But hal9000 is correct in saying that non-MV amps simply had a single volume control...you could not separately control the amount of signal to the preamp and poweramp like you can on the F50 (Gain is preamp signal, Volume is poweramp).

However, a master volume on a Marshall is global, affecting both channels, so it's a little different. If I remember correctly from my friends JCM800 combo, he can max out the preamp, but pull back the channel volume (a volume control at the end of the preamp...after the tone stacks) so that when he cranks the master (poweramp) you can keep the volume reasonable. You can't do that with the F50. Of course, that's still different than cranking everything and using an attenuator between the amp and the speaker.

And the e-bay item is nothing terribly special, like hal9000 already stated.

Surfcaster

04-05-2006, 02:21 PM

Originally posted by phyrexia
Ok guys, I have a problem. When I turn the gain up high on the drive channel, it makes a high pitched squealing noise. The pitch of the squeal goes up as the gain nob goes past 2:00 or 3:00.

This is a microphonic preamp tube, right? Which one is it? I didn't look at the pre tubes when I changed my power tubes.

Have you ruled out the guitar feeding back? I get that sometimes.

Dann'sTheMan

04-05-2006, 02:50 PM

Originally posted by hal9000
That's the volume-pedal-in-the-loop trick we're always talking about. You don't need that if you're not using the loop. Just connect a 1/4" cable to the send jack (and nothing else) and the mix pot becomes your overall master. If you are using the loop, at least one of your FX devices should have an output level control which will do the same function.

When people refer to "master volume" they usually mean that you can get overdrive with the gain knob and volume by the master. So, in that case, the F-series does have a master volume per channel, just no overall master for both of the channels. Non-master volume amps have a single knob for gain and volume. The higher it goes the more volume AND gain you get like a Plexi.

Hi Neil,

I'm sitting in my music room right now, and I quickly tried the single jack approach.

I wasn't able to get it to work in a straight forward way. I tried both the SEND and the RETURN sockets, using a single jack with the Tip and Sleeve both open and shorted.

I was able to get it to work by plugging one mono cable into the RETURN socket, and the other end into the G-Major's output, but I suspect that is because the G-Majors output is balanced. Furthermore, the result sounded a little farty and not as good as using both sockets with the G-Major to my ears.

Have you been able to verify this approach on your rig?

Big smiles,

Andy.

P.S. BTW, thrash - the F-100, like the rest of the F-series, has two Master Volumes, one for each channel. The volume box that you highlighted would work as an additional overall Master Volume (similar to the Lonestar arrangement), and is recommended, not least because many have found that the F-series sounds better when the channel Master Volumes are above 9.30 o'clock. Furthermore, there's lots of info earlier in the Lounge about how to build one of these volume boxes for only a few bucks in parts, and a little time with a soldering iron. :)

Mark Blasco

04-05-2006, 04:08 PM

I too was unable to get the single cable to work, but I am wondering if that is because the cable needs to be grounded on the other end? If I have time I am going to cut the connection on a short patch cable, but leave the ground intact, and try connecting the send and receive loop jacks and see if that works.

hal9000

04-05-2006, 04:30 PM

Originally posted by Dann'sTheMan

Hi Neil,

I'm sitting in my music room right now, and I quickly tried the single jack approach.

I wasn't able to get it to work in a straight forward way. I tried both the SEND and the RETURN sockets, using a single jack with the Tip and Sleeve both open and shorted.

I was able to get it to work by plugging one mono cable into the RETURN socket, and the other end into the G-Major's output, but I suspect that is because the G-Majors output is balanced. Furthermore, the result sounded a little farty and not as good as using both sockets with the G-Major to my ears.

Have you been able to verify this approach on your rig?

Big smiles,

Andy.

P.S. BTW, thrash - the F-100, like the rest of the F-series, has two Master Volumes, one for each channel. The volume box that you highlighted would work as an additional overall Master Volume (similar to the Lonestar arrangement), and is recommended, not least because many have found that the F-series sounds better when the channel Master Volumes are above 9.30 o'clock. Furthermore, there's lots of info earlier in the Lounge about how to build one of these volume boxes for only a few bucks in parts, and a little time with a soldering iron. :) Good catch Andy! Thanks for keeping me honest. :)

I keep forgetting to try this out each time I'm at practice, so no I’ve not tried it yet. However, after looking at the schematic again, it seems that you'll need to connect a cable to the FX send jack as before and ALSO another cable with the tip/sleeve connected to the FX return jack. I missed that the mix pot has no ground connection without the FX return jack. If that doesn't work, I'm taking my hal9000 Seal of Approval ® off this trick. :(

Dann'sTheMan

04-05-2006, 05:12 PM

Originally posted by hal9000
Good catch Andy! Thanks for keeping me honest. :)

I keep forgetting to try this out each time I'm at practice, so no I’ve not tried it yet. However, after looking at the schematic again, it seems that you'll need to connect a cable to the FX send jack as before and ALSO another cable with the tip/sleeve connected to the FX return jack. I missed that the mix pot has no ground connection without the FX return jack. If that doesn't work, I'm taking my hal9000 Seal of Approval ® off this trick. :(

Tried it, and it seems to work great. :thu: Consider that the Dann'sTheMan Seal of Approval ® has been added to the hal9000 Seal of Approval ®. :p

Big smiles,

Andy.

guitarman_nebr

04-05-2006, 06:25 PM

Okay, my name is Guitarman, and i am addicted to my new F-50!!

mine is White with the dark grill and faceplate. black knobs with white position indicaters. 1x12 widebody......

i use a highly modified CS-3>Fulltone Distortion Pro>Xotic AC Booster>F-50. i use a Visual Sound H2O in the loop and the Mesa footswitch. i attenuate with a THD Hotplate.

i play country, blues, classic rock, and i dabble in metal.

this is the perfect amp for me, the tones are CRAZY nice.....
i traded a Dr.Z Carmen Ghia for it and i am not missing it at all!!

i have just ordered a set of THD Yellow Jackets to get the EL84 sound.

that's my story, this thread helped my make my choice.

for that i thank you all, my amp search is over!!

hal9000

04-05-2006, 06:32 PM

Originally posted by Dann'sTheMan

Tried it, and it seems to work great. :thu: Consider that the Dann'sTheMan Seal of Approval ® has been added to the hal9000 Seal of Approval ®. :p

Big smiles,

Andy. SWEET! Okay, now that we've established this works, I think the best way to do this is to buy two cheap 1/4" TS connectors. The FX send connector can be left alone. The FX return connector just needs to have a wire connecting the Tip to the Sleeve.

klvanzu

04-05-2006, 08:46 PM

Originally posted by hal9000
SWEET! Okay, now that we've established this works, I think the best way to do this is to buy two cheap 1/4" TS connectors. The FX send connector can be left alone. The FX return connector just needs to have a wire connecting the Tip to the Sleeve.

ok so I was thinking about trying this and I bought a couple connectors already but haven't had the chance to try it. What do you mean when you say you need a wire connecting the tip to the sleeve? I'm real confused now but would like to give it a try :)

Dann'sTheMan

04-06-2006, 04:33 AM

Originally posted by klvanzu

ok so I was thinking about trying this and I bought a couple connectors already but haven't had the chance to try it. What do you mean when you say you need a wire connecting the tip to the sleeve? I'm real confused now but would like to give it a try :)

Hi klvanzu,

If you open up one of the connectors that you bought, you will see there are two contact areas for soldering on a cable: one in the centre - this is connected to the Tip of the jack plug; one on the perimeter - this is conencted to the Sleeve of the jack plug.

All you have to do is solder on a piece of wire to connect these two contact areas, and now the Tip and Sleeve are connected. Plug this jack connector into the return socket, plug the other unmolested jack connector into the send socket and you're good to go! :) Now just adjust the Mix pot on the back of the amp to where you desire (3 o'clock is a good place to start), and rock on. :thu:

Big smiles,

Andy.

hal9000

04-06-2006, 08:05 AM

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y34/afraiddave/hal9000F-SeriesMixMasterSchematic.jpg

hal9000

04-06-2006, 08:05 AM

gnojedre

04-06-2006, 11:43 AM

Originally posted by hal9000
It doesn't go to 100% because there is always a parallel path from the preamp. I don't really see the need for 100% wet since you won't be able to hear the parallel signal when the loop is up full. I've been running my G-Major @ 90% mix for a while now and it sounds great. Most of the problems people have with the loop are due to impedance and level mismatch, and not because of the loop percentage.

Are you having a problem?

Hi Hal,

It is not that I have a problem with it.
Its just that I use volumeswells and these are not nice when you hear the chord or note before the swell.It must be absolutely silent , before the swell sets in.
Also using the tuner (which cuts of the output on the Gsystem) , still leaves sound to come thru (10% from the amp).
I like silent (real silent) tuning.

Eric

Dann'sTheMan

04-06-2006, 12:25 PM

Originally posted by guitarman_nebr
Okay, my name is Guitarman, and i am addicted to my new F-50!!

mine is White with the dark grill and faceplate. black knobs with white position indicaters. 1x12 widebody......

i use a highly modified CS-3>Fulltone Distortion Pro>Xotic AC Booster>F-50. i use a Visual Sound H2O in the loop and the Mesa footswitch. i attenuate with a THD Hotplate.

i play country, blues, classic rock, and i dabble in metal.

this is the perfect amp for me, the tones are CRAZY nice.....
i traded a Dr.Z Carmen Ghia for it and i am not missing it at all!!

i have just ordered a set of THD Yellow Jackets to get the EL84 sound.

that's my story, this thread helped my make my choice.

for that i thank you all, my amp search is over!!

Hi guitarman_nebr,

and welcome to the F-series brotherhood. It seems as if you know exactly what you want in an amp, and I'm stoked that the F-50 is scratching your itch - it certainly does mine. :thu:

Your custom F-50 sounds gorgeous. Please share some piccies if you have any. Tell me more about how you use the AC Booster - I've been eyeing up that pedal range for a while. Oh, I've heard that the people at Mesa like the way the THD Yellow Jackets sound in the F-50. Let us know how they work out for you. :)

Big smiles,

Andy.

Dann'sTheMan

04-06-2006, 12:45 PM

Originally posted by gnojedre

Hi Hal,

It is not that I have a problem with it.
Its just that I use volumeswells and these are not nice when you hear the chord or note before the swell.It must be absolutely silent , before the swell sets in.
Also using the tuner (which cuts of the output on the Gsystem) , still leaves sound to come thru (10% from the amp).
I like silent (real silent) tuning.

Eric

Hi Eric,

You may be interested in modding your FX loop to serial. Here's a diagram courtesy of musicdog400: http://www.oz.net/~markw/Nomad%20Loop%20Series%20Mod.pdf

Big smiles,

Andy.

Surfcaster

04-06-2006, 02:15 PM

Originally posted by gnojedre

Hi Hal,

It is not that I have a problem with it.
Its just that I use volumeswells and these are not nice when you hear the chord or note before the swell.It must be absolutely silent , before the swell sets in.
Also using the tuner (which cuts of the output on the Gsystem) , still leaves sound to come thru (10% from the amp).
I like silent (real silent) tuning.

Eric

Does it not work to place the volume pedal in front of the amp rather than the loop?

markmann

04-07-2006, 05:54 AM

Originally posted by Surfcaster

Does it not work to place the volume pedal in front of the amp rather than the loop? Just my opinion but I much prefer the volume pedal in front of the amp. If your using distortion with a pedal out front the swells start clean and get dirtier as the volume increases. When in the loop you get dirt imediately but the distortion doesn't sound good at that low volume.

Jaggery

04-07-2006, 09:45 AM

Do you guys think investing in a EQ pedal (for the loop) would be a good idea?

I noticed that using the tone knob with some gain on an overdrive pedal tightens up the sound even at very low volumes.

I am thinking of picking up an MXR 6 band or 10 band EQ. The 10 band also has a gain control.

I dont want to buy a overdrive/distortion because the very reason of buying an F-50 was so I can play it without the pedal.

I know some of you guys are using the G Major. Does it have a dedicated EQ patch?

Thanks

hal9000

04-07-2006, 11:24 AM

Originally posted by Jaggery
Do you guys think investing in a EQ pedal (for the loop) would be a good idea?

I noticed that using the tone knob with some gain on an overdrive pedal tightens up the sound even at very low volumes.

I am thinking of picking up an MXR 6 band or 10 band EQ. The 10 band also has a gain control.

I dont want to buy a overdrive/distortion because the very reason of buying an F-50 was so I can play it without the pedal.

I know some of you guys are using the G Major. Does it have a dedicated EQ patch?

Thanks I use the 3-band parametric EQ in the G-major for each of my patches and it sounds great. I can boost the mids of solos, drop the mids for a scooped metal sound, add deep bass for the clean channel, pull back the high end, etc. all per patch. In fact, because of the way I have my FCB 1010 controller setup, a single solo patch can also have an alternate mid-drop EQ by stepping on the button again. So, Channel 2 on the amp is set for T-12:00, M-1:30, B-10:30, which sounds great for solos, then I kick in a slight mid scoop for medium gain rhythm by stepping on the same button. My Contour patch has the same function, but in reverse so it's normally lightly scooped, and I can kick in a higher gain solo mid hump. I can actually get as much bass out of my F-100 + 2x12 Avatar and the G-Major's EQ as my VHT 50CL with its built-in EQ. Ultimately, stomp EQs can sound good, but aren’t as versatile simply because they don’t have multiple patches.

BTW, I’ve done the pre-distortion EQ post-distortion EQ and you can get ridiculous Mark IIc+-like tight aggressive bass. Mmmm MOP. Check these out:

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y34/afraiddave/hal9000TightBassInputEQ.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y34/afraiddave/hal9000TightBassLoopEQ.jpg

Surfcaster

04-07-2006, 12:21 PM

I was just experimenting with the pre and post EQ based on a comment by musicdog400 in another thread...very similar to the two graphics in your post, Neil. However, I only have one EQ pedal at this point, so I was using the tone controls on my OD pedal to pull back on the bass for the input. I was amazed at how much it tightened things up...really got rid of the fuzziness.

I'm really pumped about this, as that fuzzy character was my biggest tonal complaint with the F50.

I think I'm going to need to invest in a second EQ pedal, I liked it so much!

VHWolfgang5150

04-07-2006, 09:25 PM

http://cgi.ebay.com/Mesa-F-50-F50-Amplifier-Amp-Head_W0QQitemZ7405731296QQcategoryZ43374QQssPageNa meZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

there's what seems to be like a great deal on a f-50 head. if I had the cash I'd go for it.

VoodooChild24

04-07-2006, 09:38 PM

Originally posted by VHWolfgang5150
http://cgi.ebay.com/Mesa-F-50-F50-Amplifier-Amp-Head_W0QQitemZ7405731296QQcategoryZ43374QQssPageNa meZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

there's what seems to be like a great deal on a f-50 head. if I had the cash I'd go for it.

I saw this too. Somebody should jump on this. Price of an F-50 can't get any cheaper than that.

phyrexia

04-07-2006, 11:37 PM

Originally posted by hal9000
BTW, I’ve done the pre-distortion EQ post-distortion EQ and you can get ridiculous Mark IIc+-like tight aggressive bass. Mmmm MOP.

Glad I'm not the only one who's figured this out :D

Ch2 (no contour) + my OD + my EQ = metaaaaaal ;)

hal9000

04-08-2006, 05:50 AM

Originally posted by VoodooChild24

I saw this too. Somebody should jump on this. Price of an F-50 can't get any cheaper than that. That really looks like an F-30 head with an F-50 footswitch since it's missing the Channel LEDs and it has the short head look? :confused:

guitarman_nebr

04-08-2006, 06:07 AM

the Xotic AC Booster is not really a booster pedal as far as volume is concerned. on the clean channel, it provides a boost in input so you get that slight tube break up. this is great for country leads ala Brad Paisley.

on the second channel, the AC Booster just thickens the channel and adds the mid hump a decent lead needs.

these are true bypass, so the original sound is not tampered with at all. the Xotic RC and AC Boosters are the best clean boost i have found. the F-50 loves them.

i am going to try the Yellow Jackets to see if i can brighten the amp up at small club volume. we run H&K Redboxes to the board on everything, so we don't use much stage volume. the amp gets muddy if it is attenuated too much. i am attempting to keep that "sweet spot" at about 11 o'clock on the channel volume.

Surfcaster

04-08-2006, 10:14 AM

Originally posted by hal9000
That really looks like an F-30 head with an F-50 footswitch since it's missing the Channel LEDs and it has the short head look? :confused:

No doubt it's one of the first run of the F50s they made. My F50 combo is from the first run when they were made in the same cabs as the F30 without LEDs on the faceplate. So it doesn't surprise me at all that there would be some heads out there in the same format.

Ogi-wan

04-08-2006, 01:51 PM

It's an F-50. Check out the size of those power tubes. They are too large to be EL-84.

By the way, hello all! I am an F-30 owner and am having lots of fun with that lil' amp! It's my first Mesa.

hal9000

04-08-2006, 02:38 PM

Originally posted by Ogi-wan
It's an F-50. Check out the size of those power tubes. They are too large to be EL-84.

By the way, hello all! I am an F-30 owner and am having lots of fun with that lil' amp! It's my first Mesa. It is an F-50, good call. Those are 6L6 tubes for sure. I'm not sure how I missed the back shot, because I looked specifically for it.

Congrats on the F-30 Ogi-wan and welcome to the brotherhood! Tell us more about what kind of music you play and the rest of your gear.

Tom Nooijen

04-08-2006, 03:54 PM

I have a question about my F-50. I've been using it for about a month now, and I've noticed some small problems.
First of all the amp makes some strange popping sounds, sometimes very loud. This happens only every 15 minutes or something, on both channels. Also, when I'm using delay in the effects loop the popping sounds gets delayed, so ít probably has to be something wrong in the preamp section. Could this be a bad tube?
I've also noticed that my amp makes quite a lot of noise, way more then my Marshall TSL does at the same volume. Is this normal or could this also have something to do with a bad tube?

Hope someone can help me out with this,

Tom

guitarman_nebr

04-08-2006, 04:58 PM

my F-50 is quiet as a mouse. no popping or any real noticeable hiss. there is a little hiss, but it is a tube amp.

you may have a bad tube, tube socket, or a loose connection in the preamp. a tech will be required.

good luck though, these amps are gems.

Surfcaster

04-08-2006, 08:37 PM

Originally posted by Tom Nooijen
I have a question about my F-50. I've been using it for about a month now, and I've noticed some small problems.
First of all the amp makes some strange popping sounds, sometimes very loud. This happens only every 15 minutes or something, on both channels. Also, when I'm using delay in the effects loop the popping sounds gets delayed, so ít probably has to be something wrong in the preamp section. Could this be a bad tube?
I've also noticed that my amp makes quite a lot of noise, way more then my Marshall TSL does at the same volume. Is this normal or could this also have something to do with a bad tube?

Hope someone can help me out with this,

Tom

Welcome, Tom. Well, my first suggestion was to call Mesa...then I saw you're in the Netherlands and it'd be a pretty pricey call!...not to mention you'd have to do it in the middle of the night.

My next question...is there anything else on that same circuit in your house that cylces on and off...like a refrigerator or heater or water heater or anything? If so, that might cause that kind of noise. Does it happen no matter what room you use it in...or better yet, have you used the amp some place other than your home and still had the same problem?

I suppose it might be a tube, too. Try tapping the tubes lightly with a pencil with the amp on and standby on and see whether or not that triggers it. If so, replace the culprit tube.

Hope you figure it out!

thrash

04-09-2006, 08:34 AM

How many of you use a compressor with your F series? What kind of difference does it mak on the clean and gain channels? I've never played one.

Do you recommend them?

Tom Nooijen

04-09-2006, 09:29 AM

Originally posted by Surfcaster

Welcome, Tom. Well, my first suggestion was to call Mesa...then I saw you're in the Netherlands and it'd be a pretty pricey call!...not to mention you'd have to do it in the middle of the night.

My next question...is there anything else on that same circuit in your house that cylces on and off...like a refrigerator or heater or water heater or anything? If so, that might cause that kind of noise. Does it happen no matter what room you use it in...or better yet, have you used the amp some place other than your home and still had the same problem?

I suppose it might be a tube, too. Try tapping the tubes lightly with a pencil with the amp on and standby on and see whether or not that triggers it. If so, replace the culprit tube.

Hope you figure it out!

I've been looking which rooms are on the same circuit as my bedroom. I've found out that the attic is on the same circuit as my bedroom, so maybe the water heater for the radiators is causing the problem. I've actually used my amp for about an hour in another place, and I didn't hear any noticable popping sounds. I'm not sure about the noise though, because I wasn't able to play the amp louder then the volume knob only very slightly open (like 7 o'clock)

I've also checked which tubes are in my F-50, as I bought it used. The salesman assured me it had the original Mesa tubes, but I've found out otherwise this afternoon. The powertubes are actually from Electro-harmonix (6L6EH), and the preamp tubes are from Sovtek (7025 / 12AX7WA). See below for pictures:

http://members.lycos.nl/tomnooijen/electroh.jpg

http://members.lycos.nl/tomnooijen/sovtek.jpg

So maybe this could be causing the noise? I don't know if these tubes are normally good enough?

Regarding tapping the tubes with a pencil, you have to run the amp without the metal protection around the preamp tubes?

Tom

musicdog400

04-09-2006, 09:50 AM

How many of you use a compressor with your F series? What kind of difference does it mak on the clean and gain channels? I've never played one.

I use a compressor for medium gain tones, when I try to get that singing sustain like Alan Holdsworth gets.

Currently I am using a Maxon, but the attack is too slow on it, so you kind of get a pop at the beginning of each note. Not so noticable with gain, but with clean it is annoying. Also the top of the footswitch came off. I would like to find one like the new Vox Cooltron that had a noise gate built it.

Ogi-wan

04-09-2006, 12:23 PM

Thank you, Hal. (By the way, that's some nice graphics you've got going on there!)

I'm a beginner at guitar and don't have much gear. What you see in my sig is it...unless you're wanting to know what cables and picks I use. ;)

My Axis Super Sport is of the dual-humbucker variety, hardtail, with rosewood fingerboard and piezo pickups. My Luke also has a piezo; it's a SSH guitar that comes stock with EMGs.

I find myself trying to play Toto, Journey, Kansas, and Trevor Rabin-era Yes more than anything else, besides from just fooling around.

Originally posted by hal9000
It is an F-50, good call. Those are 6L6 tubes for sure. I'm not sure how I missed the back shot, because I looked specifically for it.

Congrats on the F-30 Ogi-wan and welcome to the brotherhood! Tell us more about what kind of music you play and the rest of your gear.

musicdog400

04-09-2006, 12:32 PM

I find myself trying to play Toto, Journey, Kansas,
Ah, a man after my own heart.

I heard the men saying something
The captains tell they pay you well
And they say they need sailing men to
Show the way, and leave today
Was it you that said, "How long, how long?"

Ogi-wan

04-09-2006, 01:34 PM

Carry on, wayward son. :)

Originally posted by musicdog400

Ah, a man after my own heart.

I heard the men saying something
The captains tell they pay you well
And they say they need sailing men to
Show the way, and leave today
Was it you that said, "How long, how long?"

hal9000

04-10-2006, 06:07 AM

Originally posted by Ogi-wan
Thank you, Hal. (By the way, that's some nice graphics you've got going on there!)

I'm a beginner at guitar and don't have much gear. What you see in my sig is it...unless you're wanting to know what cables and picks I use. ;)

My Axis Super Sport is of the dual-humbucker variety, hardtail, with rosewood fingerboard and piezo pickups. My Luke also has a piezo; it's a SSH guitar that comes stock with EMGs.

I find myself trying to play Toto, Journey, Kansas, and Trevor Rabin-era Yes more than anything else, besides from just fooling around.

Thanks for the compliment on my artwork! :) Along with music, it's my other passion. I actually have a graphic design business on the side which is great fun.

For a starting guitarist, you sure have some nice gear and good taste I might add. I've loved every Music Man guitar I've played and I've been thinking seriously about picking up a JP6.

I also love classic rock and I think the F-series can pull lots of those tones of with aplomb.

markmann

04-10-2006, 06:40 AM

Originally posted by thrash
How many of you use a compressor with your F series? What kind of difference does it mak on the clean and gain channels? I've never played one.

Do you recommend them? I have two compressors but only use them occasionally on a as needed basis. One is an MXR Dyna Comp that I've had since the late 70's. I't does a great job but it does add color and a certain aggressiveness to the tone when set at moderate levels. When I want transparent compression I use my Barber Tone Press which IMO is the best commpressor I've used for pure compression. I use compression for the cleaner tones that decay to quickly and get lost in the mix. The Barber allows me to achieve longer sustain and retain a natural attack which basically just allows me to hear a note longer. Tube amp's produce natural compression by nature when turned up and I find that the gain tones are compressed enough to keep me happy.

Dann'sTheMan

04-10-2006, 07:08 AM

Originally posted by markmann
I have two compressors but only use them occasionally on a as needed basis. One is an MXR Dyna Comp that I've had since the late 70's. I't does a great job but it does add color and a certain aggressiveness to the tone when set at moderate levels. When I want transparent compression I use my Barber Tone Press which IMO is the best commpressor I've used for pure compression. I use compression for the cleaner tones that decay to quickly and get lost in the mix. The Barber allows me to achieve longer sustain and retain a natural attack which basically just allows me to hear a note longer. Tube amp's produce natural compression by nature when turned up and I find that the gain tones are compressed enough to keep me happy.

Hi thrash and markmann,

I use a late 70s Dynacomp with my F-50 - primarily for clean or with the amp set with a low gain setting. I use my Dynacomp more as a boost, than as a compressor, but I love the expanded range of vintage flavoured tones it brings to the arsenal. Highly recommended. :)

FWIW, I've used the Dynacomp on a lot on my more recent clips (Woody clean onwards, and several of the video clips). :p

Big smiles,

Andy.

P.S. Mark - we should exchange some Dynacomp settings. :thu:

Surfcaster

04-10-2006, 07:40 AM

Originally posted by Tom Nooijen

I've been looking which rooms are on the same circuit as my bedroom. I've found out that the attic is on the same circuit as my bedroom, so maybe the water heater for the radiators is causing the problem. I've actually used my amp for about an hour in another place, and I didn't hear any noticable popping sounds. I'm not sure about the noise though, because I wasn't able to play the amp louder then the volume knob only very slightly open (like 7 o'clock)

I've also checked which tubes are in my F-50, as I bought it used. The salesman assured me it had the original Mesa tubes, but I've found out otherwise this afternoon. The powertubes are actually from Electro-harmonix (6L6EH), and the preamp tubes are from Sovtek (7025 / 12AX7WA). See below for pictures:

So maybe this could be causing the noise? I don't know if these tubes are normally good enough?

Regarding tapping the tubes with a pencil, you have to run the amp without the metal protection around the preamp tubes?

Tom

The only possible issues with the tubes is that they are defective, or it's possible they could be too far out of bias (which is only an issue for the power tubes)...it's hard to tell when buying a used amp that doesn't have Mesa tubes in them whether the tubes are within bias or not. But I don't know that being too far out of bias would cause a popping noise. More than likely it would just affect the tone...of course if they are too far out of bias you could have output transformer issues too. But the quality of the tubes wouldn't cause that (besides, EH are generally good quality tubes, I use them in other amps...and while Sovteks aren't my first choice, I had them in other amps and not had any problems with them...so unless it's defective that shouldn't be the problem)

The metal cannisters over the preamp tubes just act as shielding...to prevent unwanted electronic noise from getting in the signal. It's perfectly safe to run the amp without them...worst case scenario is you get a little signal interference. So go ahead and take them off and do the pencil tapping thing.

As for the water heater in the attic...is it possible to unplug it for a while just to test? If you can't run the amp at the same volume in another part of the house, that might be one way to test that theory.

Surfcaster

04-10-2006, 07:53 AM

Originally posted by Ogi-wan

I find myself trying to play Toto, Journey, Kansas, and Trevor Rabin-era Yes more than anything else, besides from just fooling around.

Do I hear an Amen? :D Though I depart from that somewhat...lots of Journey, Rush, and Boston and I've been trying to learn some of the more reasonably paced parts some Eric Johnson and Satriani tunes.

The only Yes song I've worked on is Love Will Find a Way...LOVE that song!

PS...after repeatedly hearing Andy talk about Dann Huff, I finally picked up a couple of Giant CDs and have been inspired to learn a few riffs off those in the past couple of weeks. Great stuff...if you're into that late 80's Industrial Rock thing.

Surfcaster

04-10-2006, 08:05 AM

Originally posted by hal9000

BTW, I’ve done the pre-distortion EQ post-distortion EQ and you can get ridiculous Mark IIc+-like tight aggressive bass. Mmmm MOP. Check these out:

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y34/afraiddave/hal9000TightBassInputEQ.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y34/afraiddave/hal9000TightBassLoopEQ.jpg

I played around with the pre/post EQ thing a little more this weekend. After a while I decided to hook up my 2x12 cab with the V30 and G12H30...I was in sonic heaven. I think this is the closest I've ever gotten to that holy grail of tones that I hear in my head. :thu: My settings are a little different than these...partly because at this point I'm using an OD pedal to pull the bass out in front of the amp, but the results are still inspiring! I think I've just added a new EQ pedal to my wish list (anybody tried one of the new Behringer EQ pedal that sells for the ridiculous sum of $20?)

Ogi-wan

04-10-2006, 10:52 AM

Boston! How could I forget Boston? Tom Scholz is a major reason why I wanted to play electric guitar in the first place.

In fact, the first thing I ever learned to play was the opening accoustic riff from "More Than A Feeling", out of some magazine. It doesn't quite sound like what I hear on the record, but it's good enough. :D

Originally posted by Surfcaster

Do I hear an Amen? :D Though I depart from that somewhat...lots of Journey, Rush, and Boston and I've been trying to learn some of the more reasonably paced parts some Eric Johnson and Satriani tunes.

The only Yes song I've worked on is Love Will Find a Way...LOVE that song!

PS...after repeatedly hearing Andy talk about Dann Huff, I finally picked up a couple of Giant CDs and have been inspired to learn a few riffs off those in the past couple of weeks. Great stuff...if you're into that late 80's Industrial Rock thing.

Surfcaster

04-10-2006, 11:47 AM

Originally posted by Ogi-wan
Boston! How could I forget Boston? Tom Scholz is a major reason why I wanted to play electric guitar in the first place.

In fact, the first thing I ever learned to play was the opening accoustic riff from "More Than A Feeling", out of some magazine. It doesn't quite sound like what I hear on the record, but it's good enough. :D

Yeah, I think that was the first song I learned to play on a friends electric...followed by Peace of Mind, which I still love playing.

markmann

04-10-2006, 11:50 AM

Originally posted by Dann'sTheMan

Hi thrash and markmann,

I use a late 70s Dynacomp with my F-50 - primarily for clean or with the amp set with a low gain setting. I use my Dynacomp more as a boost, than as a compressor, but I love the expanded range of vintage flavoured tones it brings to the arsenal. Highly recommended. :)

FWIW, I've used the Dynacomp on a lot on my more recent clips (Woody clean onwards, and several of the video clips). :p

Big smiles,

Andy.

P.S. Mark - we should exchange some Dynacomp settings. :thu: Can do. The next time I have it in my chain I'll jot down a few of my settings.

plumptone

04-11-2006, 06:19 AM

I've been using the MXR dynacomp for years too. It's an integral part of my sound. I had an old one back in the 80's, dumped it when I got my forst boogie. But as the years went by I started to miss that great little box. So eventually I picked up a new one, and now it sits permanently in my pedal board. I use it almost exclusively for my clean sounds, both as a compressor AND as a signal boost. I find that it provides a nice push from the guitar into the front end of the amp. I basically dime the effect and set the output level at roughly 2 o'clock.

hal9000

04-11-2006, 07:28 AM

Originally posted by Surfcaster

I played around with the pre/post EQ thing a little more this weekend. After a while I decided to hook up my 2x12 cab with the V30 and G12H30...I was in sonic heaven. I think this is the closest I've ever gotten to that holy grail of tones that I hear in my head. :thu: My settings are a little different than these...partly because at this point I'm using an OD pedal to pull the bass out in front of the amp, but the results are still inspiring! I think I've just added a new EQ pedal to my wish list (anybody tried one of the new Behringer EQ pedal that sells for the ridiculous sum of $20?) I'm glad you found the experiment encouraging. I'd venture that EQ>Distortion>EQ is the most powerful tone shaping tool we have. I've had good results with my DOD FX40B which is only $40. Bypassed in the loop, it makes the amp sounds a bit processed because of the impedance mismatch, but with it on, it sounds good. The EQ in my G-major is fully parametric so that's what I use now and it's very powerful.

Surfcaster

04-11-2006, 03:17 PM

Originally posted by hal9000
I'm glad you found the experiment encouraging. I'd venture that EQ>Distortion>EQ is the most powerful tone shaping tool we have. I've had good results with my DOD FX40B which is only $40. Bypassed in the loop, it makes the amp sounds a bit processed because of the impedance mismatch, but with it on, it sounds good. The EQ in my G-major is fully parametric so that's what I use now and it's very powerful.

I posted this on another forum and they suggested using a lower gain tube in V2 to acheive the same result...one suggested a 5751. Said it would reduce the fizz/fuzz factor and provide a smoother tone. Further checking on some tube sites I found this tube was indeed recommended for 'taming' high gain amps. Since the F50 has more gain than I normally use it seemed like a good thing to try...especially since the clean channel doesn't need the extra EQ and switching channels on the fly with two EQ pedals requires some pretty fancy footwork (much simplified with a G-Major, I'm sure, but I'm not ready to shell out that much $$).

I've got a JAN Philips 5751 on order which I should get yet this week. I'll post the results.

Ogi-wan

04-12-2006, 12:08 AM

I'm curious. You know how the tone controls seem to go AWOL when the gain is cranked up? Would that be because of the gain being so high, or is it just a function of the gain knob being turned up so much? In other words, say I replace the 12AX7 with a 12AT7 in V1, would I be able to turn the gain knob to the same position (for sake of discussion, say 4:00) as with the original pre-amp tube and have the same loss of tone control? Or would I retain more tone control because the gain wouldn't be so high because of the lower gain tube, despite how far I have the gain knob itself turned?

Originally posted by Surfcaster

I posted this on another forum and they suggested using a lower gain tube in V2 to acheive the same result...one suggested a 5751. Said it would reduce the fizz/fuzz factor and provide a smoother tone. Further checking on some tube sites I found this tube was indeed recommended for 'taming' high gain amps. Since the F50 has more gain than I normally use it seemed like a good thing to try...especially since the clean channel doesn't need the extra EQ and switching channels on the fly with two EQ pedals requires some pretty fancy footwork (much simplified with a G-Major, I'm sure, but I'm not ready to shell out that much $$).

I've got a JAN Philips 5751 on order which I should get yet this week. I'll post the results.

Torh

04-12-2006, 02:41 AM

I plan on purchasing a F-50. While the output volume might be overkill for me when I practice at home, I consider purchasing an attenuator called A-Designs ATTY Volume Attenuator (http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Live/Sound/Signal/Processors?sku=189900). I am not very fastidious on the sound at home, so no need for recommending Weber, THD, Dr. Z or similar... However, I am a little unsure on how to mount the ATTY into the F-50, so if someone could give their two cents on this, I'd greatly appreciate it :)

Dann'sTheMan

04-12-2006, 04:21 AM

Originally posted by Torh
I plan on purchasing a F-50. While the output volume might be overkill for me when I practice at home, I consider purchasing an attenuator called A-Designs ATTY Volume Attenuator (http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Live/Sound/Signal/Processors?sku=189900). I am not very fastidious on the sound at home, so no need for recommending Weber, THD, Dr. Z or similar... However, I am a little unsure on how to mount the ATTY into the F-50, so if someone could give their two cents on this, I'd greatly appreciate it :)

Hi Torh,

The attenuator you highlighted is a Line Level device, and at $100 is far too expensive, as you will not be using any balanced connectors etc. There are instructions in this thread to build a similar box for only a few bucks in parts.

The solution that I would recommend for the needs you described, is to use a couple of jack connectors (or convert an old/busted guitar cable) to turn the Mix control on the back of the F-50 into a Master Volume (basically acting as the line level attenuator that you highlighted). Check out hal9000's description of what is required:

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y34/afraiddave/hal9000F-SeriesMixMasterSchematic.jpg

Big smiles,

Andy.

markmann

04-12-2006, 05:26 AM

Originally posted by Surfcaster

I posted this on another forum and they suggested using a lower gain tube in V2 to acheive the same result...one suggested a 5751. Said it would reduce the fizz/fuzz factor and provide a smoother tone. Further checking on some tube sites I found this tube was indeed recommended for 'taming' high gain amps. Since the F50 has more gain than I normally use it seemed like a good thing to try...especially since the clean channel doesn't need the extra EQ and switching channels on the fly with two EQ pedals requires some pretty fancy footwork (much simplified with a G-Major, I'm sure, but I'm not ready to shell out that much $$).

I've got a JAN Philips 5751 on order which I should get yet this week. I'll post the results. Thanks for sharing that Surfcaster and please let us know when the results are in. Like you I don't use high gain much and mainly live in the clean and moderate distortion range. Are you trying to tame what many have refered to as the "loose bottom?" I'm curious because I don't consider the f50 to be buzzy or fizzy in the higher freq's but the low end can get out of hand quite easily.

Torh

04-12-2006, 06:04 AM

Originally posted by Dann'sTheMan

Hi Torh,

The attenuator you highlighted is a Line Level device, and at $100 is far too expensive, as you will not be using any balanced connectors etc. There are instructions in this thread to build a similar box for only a few bucks in parts.

The solution that I would recommend for the needs you described, is to use a couple of jack connectors (or convert an old/busted guitar cable) to turn the Mix control on the back of the F-50 into a Master Volume (basically acting as the line level attenuator that you highlighted). Check out hal9000's description of what is required:

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y34/afraiddave/hal9000F-SeriesMixMasterSchematic.jpg

Big smiles,

Andy.

Aiit, I will dig further into the thread then. :)
As for the other solution you mention, using a cable in the fx send/return - I plan on putting a DD-20 in the loop, which would kinda ruin some of the pros of the method (which otherwise is a brilliant method of attenuate the signal!)...

hal9000

04-12-2006, 06:20 AM

Originally posted by Torh

Aiit, I will dig further into the thread then. :)
As for the other solution you mention, using a cable in the fx send/return - I plan on putting a DD-20 in the loop, which would kinda ruin some of the pros of the method (which otherwise is a brilliant method of attenuate the signal!)... Torh, if you plan on using the DD-20 in the loop, then its built-in output level control should be sufficient for attenuating your amp. The solution I came up with above is only for people who don't use the loop. I appreciate the compliment on the design by the way. As for loop attenuation with the F-series, I use a G-Major which is excellently transparent as do Dann'sTheMan and Tommi Inkila. I believe VoodooChild24 runs a DD-20 with his F-100 if you'd like to talk to him.

Torh

04-12-2006, 07:05 AM

Surfcaster

04-12-2006, 08:54 AM

Originally posted by markmann
Thanks for sharing that Surfcaster and please let us know when the results are in. Like you I don't use high gain much and mainly live in the clean and moderate distortion range. Are you trying to tame what many have refered to as the "loose bottom?" I'm curious because I don't consider the f50 to be buzzy or fizzy in the higher freq's but the low end can get out of hand quite easily.

Yes Markmann, that's exactly what I'm trying to tame...what some people refer to as a loose bottom.

Surfcaster

04-12-2006, 09:02 AM

Originally posted by Ogi-wan
I'm curious. You know how the tone controls seem to go AWOL when the gain is cranked up? Would that be because of the gain being so high, or is it just a function of the gain knob being turned up so much? In other words, say I replace the 12AX7 with a 12AT7 in V1, would I be able to turn the gain knob to the same position (for sake of discussion, say 4:00) as with the original pre-amp tube and have the same loss of tone control? Or would I retain more tone control because the gain wouldn't be so high because of the lower gain tube, despite how far I have the gain knob itself turned?

I actually just realized this myself, but V2 is the tube that generates the gain for channel 2...V2B to be exact, so replacing V1 won't affect gain levels on channel 2. What I was told was if you're happy with your clean channel (which I am) then leave V1 alone.

As far as the tone controls not having much effect at higher gain levels, others might be better suited to answering that, but as I understand it, that is partly due to where the tone controls are placed in the preamp...in this amp I understand that the tone stacks are before the gain stages (like the classic Fenders the F50 is based on). In this arrangement, the tone controls have less impact at higher gain settings.

Having the tone controls after the gain stages makes them much more effective at higher gain settings.

In that sense, I would imagine using a lower gain tube might make the tone controls somewhat more effective...but I would imagine it would be quite subtle (and perhaps not detectable at all)...not the kind of night/day difference some of us would like.

An EQ pedal in the loop is probably the best way to acheive more radical tone shaping.

Surfcaster

04-12-2006, 09:06 AM

Hey, in the previous post I wrote about the F50 being based on classic Fenders...and seeing "F50" and "Fender" so close to each other made me wonder if the "F" in F-Series is a reference to the Fenders it is based on? Anyone know? I've always wondered what relevance the "F" had? (And since Mesa doesn't have an A-Series, B-Series, etc, it seems like it must have been named that for SOME reason).

hal9000

04-12-2006, 09:19 AM

musicdog400

04-12-2006, 10:40 AM

made me wonder if the "F" in F-Series is a reference to the Fenders it is based on?
I think you may be on to something !

Dann'sTheMan

04-12-2006, 04:23 PM

Originally posted by Surfcaster
Hey, in the previous post I wrote about the F50 being based on classic Fenders...and seeing "F50" and "Fender" so close to each other made me wonder if the "F" in F-Series is a reference to the Fenders it is based on? Anyone know? I've always wondered what relevance the "F" had? (And since Mesa doesn't have an A-Series, B-Series, etc, it seems like it must have been named that for SOME reason).

When I first started posting at HCAF, I often posed that very thought - did the "F" in F-series refer to the old Fender amps that it evolved from. No-one ever responded to this seriously, but then again, back then, most people were being critical of Mesa's stealth amp (someone even said the "F" stood for "Failure"), and I couldn't understand whether people had tried the same amp that was blowing me away, and that I was intent on buying. :p

I think you may well be right, Surfcaster. :) I like to think that F-series is what might have happened 25 years ago if the Mark I had evolved in a more Fender direction. I'm happy to continue with these pipe dreams, but if anyone hears more directly from Mesa's lips, then do please share. :thu:

Big smiles,

Andy.

Surfcaster

04-12-2006, 04:40 PM

Originally posted by Dann'sTheMan

When I first started posting at HCAF, I often posed that very thought - did the "F" in F-series refer to the old Fender amps that it evolved from.

Big smiles,

Andy.

We'll take Andy's original post as a motion and mine as a second... so all in favor of adopting this as the Official HCAF F-Series Lounge interpretation say "aye"! :D ;) :p

VoodooChild24

04-12-2006, 10:42 PM

Originally posted by hal9000
Torh, if you plan on using the DD-20 in the loop, then its built-in output level control should be sufficient for attenuating your amp. The solution I came up with above is only for people who don't use the loop. I appreciate the compliment on the design by the way. As for loop attenuation with the F-series, I use a G-Major which is excellently transparent as do Dann'sTheMan and Tommi Inkila. I believe VoodooChild24 runs a DD-20 with his F-100 if you'd like to talk to him.

Thanks for the name drop Neil. :thu:

Torh - Hal is right you can basically use the DD-20 to attenuate your amp. Run ith through the effects loop and use the "E-level /volume knob" of the pedal to adjust the sound to your tasting.

However, don't expect much out of it. What i mean is, you cannot use it as a substitute to a THD hotplate. You get what im saying? Another alternative way is to buy a volume pedal and use it to "attenuate" your amp. I say this is the cheapest way. :D

Hope this helps. Oh BTW, post pics when you get your new F-50. You can't go wrong with that. :thu:

Ogi-wan

04-12-2006, 10:57 PM

I think I'm gonna get me a 12AT7 and play around some. ;)

Originally posted by Surfcaster

I actually just realized this myself, but V2 is the tube that generates the gain for channel 2...V2B to be exact, so replacing V1 won't affect gain levels on channel 2. What I was told was if you're happy with your clean channel (which I am) then leave V1 alone.

As far as the tone controls not having much effect at higher gain levels, others might be better suited to answering that, but as I understand it, that is partly due to where the tone controls are placed in the preamp...in this amp I understand that the tone stacks are before the gain stages (like the classic Fenders the F50 is based on). In this arrangement, the tone controls have less impact at higher gain settings.

Having the tone controls after the gain stages makes them much more effective at higher gain settings.

In that sense, I would imagine using a lower gain tube might make the tone controls somewhat more effective...but I would imagine it would be quite subtle (and perhaps not detectable at all)...not the kind of night/day difference some of us would like.

An EQ pedal in the loop is probably the best way to acheive more radical tone shaping.

Torh

04-13-2006, 02:07 AM

Originally posted by VoodooChild24

Thanks for the name drop Neil. :thu:

Torh - Hal is right you can basically use the DD-20 to attenuate your amp. Run ith through the effects loop and use the "E-level /volume knob" of the pedal to adjust the sound to your tasting.

However, don't expect much out of it. What i mean is, you cannot use it as a substitute to a THD hotplate. You get what im saying? Another alternative way is to buy a volume pedal and use it to "attenuate" your amp. I say this is the cheapest way. :D

Hope this helps. Oh BTW, post pics when you get your new F-50. You can't go wrong with that. :thu:

Aiit, I get it :) I will see if the DD-20 does the trick for me, if necessary I will search for a used hotplate. But thank you very much for helping me on this! Pics will come, hopefully, in the early summer :D

rivermusic

04-13-2006, 09:45 PM

Hey, newbie question here..still getting adjusted to my F-50 and was curious as to a sound..I heard a signicant buzzing sound when I'm in any of the channels..it goes up when I turn up the gain..It isn't TOO loud, but it's noticeable

I'm not sure how much buzzing just comes with the territory of a 50 watt tube amp..I've tapped the tubes and don't think the problem is coming from there..

Anyway, any input is appreciated

Surfcaster

04-14-2006, 08:43 AM

Originally posted by rivermusic
Hey, newbie question here..still getting adjusted to my F-50 and was curious as to a sound..I heard a signicant buzzing sound when I'm in any of the channels..it goes up when I turn up the gain..It isn't TOO loud, but it's noticeable

I'm not sure how much buzzing just comes with the territory of a 50 watt tube amp..I've tapped the tubes and don't think the problem is coming from there..

Anyway, any input is appreciated

There is a noticeable white noise type sound with the F50...not real loud, but it does get a little louder when you turn up the volume or gain. That's normal. Does that sound like what you're hearing?

rivermusic

04-14-2006, 01:27 PM

Originally posted by Surfcaster

There is a noticeable white noise type sound with the F50...not real loud, but it does get a little louder when you turn up the volume or gain. That's normal. Does that sound like what you're hearing?

This may be it..I'm just not used to these higher wattage amps as this is my first..I jam with it in my room, which is quiet..in a gig setting I'm sure I won't hear it

Thanks

songsmith1950

04-15-2006, 10:23 PM

Last night at Guitar Center in Marietta Ga I bought my F50. I have had a fair amount of time with it today and I do think that this amp may prove to be the greatest all around amp I have ever owned. Have been playing and buying good amps since 1966 so that should mean something.

The thing about this amp is that not only can it do clean, low gain, med and high gain but it does not sound like it is having to strain or simulate anything else. All of these sound types seem to be native to this amp on a quality level that I haven't seen on this scale.

Wow.

Will post more as I learn. Gotta tell you guys that I read a lot of this thread before I bought.

Please, count me in!

Tom

Songsmith1950

Dann'sTheMan

04-16-2006, 07:54 AM

Originally posted by songsmith1950
Last night at Guitar Center in Marietta Ga I bought my F50. I have had a fair amount of time with it today and I do think that this amp may prove to be the greatest all around amp I have ever owned. Have been playing and buying good amps since 1966 so that should mean something.

The thing about this amp is that not only can it do clean, low gain, med and high gain but it does not sound like it is having to strain or simulate anything else. All of these sound types seem to be native to this amp on a quality level that I haven't seen on this scale.

Wow.

Will post more as I learn. Gotta tell you guys that I read a lot of this thread before I bought.

Please, count me in!

Tom

Songsmith1950

Consider yourself counted in, Tom! and welcome to the F-series brotherhood. It always impresses me too how the F-series plays so many styles and gain levels with absolute authority. Long may the fun continue. :thu:

Big smiles,

Andy.

songsmith1950

04-17-2006, 07:04 AM

Gotta ask. I have a set of Yellow Jackets with EL84's. Would these give the F50 the ability to get that EL84 overdrive ala Vox and Marshall 18 watter?
Also, being a EE I am thinking about trying to design a stomp box that will allow me to simulate the tube rectifier sag and compression. Can this be done with a compressor pedal or would the "Tube Rec" pedal be a welcome thing?

Thanks. I have found my go to amp for sure. Anything I can add is just extra icing cause this F50 is a fine toolkit.

Tom

CJCorcoran

04-18-2006, 03:11 PM

Hi, I'm new around here. I recently purchased a used F-50 amp off of eBay. The F-50 is one of the older (manufactured around 2002), slimmer case models. I am using an Epiphone Les Paul with with a Seymour Duncan SH-1 '59 model at the neck and a Screamin' Demon at the bridge. I have every knob on the guitar set to max. The problem is I use the "instant gratification" settings suggested by Mesa/Boggie, but the bass distorts. I have to set the thing barely on before it distorts. I already switched the amp's power and preamp tubes and this didn't make the problem as bad, but the amp still distorts way too early in my opinion. And before I get flamed, I know it's risky buying stuff off of eBay. However, this seller seemed reputable since he had over 6000+ positive feedback and deals specifically in music equipment.

Any suggestion?

--Chris

Surfcaster

04-18-2006, 08:28 PM

I know this is off topic, but I feel like this thread is my home on this forum so I thought I'd share here. Just wanted to let you all know my wife and I had a baby girl over the weekend...12:29 am on Sunday...7 lbs 13 ozs. Both Mom and baby Claire are doing great and we're grateful to God for the blessing of a second daughter.

Surfcaster

04-18-2006, 08:29 PM

Originally posted by songsmith1950
Gotta ask. I have a set of Yellow Jackets with EL84's. Would these give the F50 the ability to get that EL84 overdrive ala Vox and Marshall 18 watter?
Also, being a EE I am thinking about trying to design a stomp box that will allow me to simulate the tube rectifier sag and compression. Can this be done with a compressor pedal or would the "Tube Rec" pedal be a welcome thing?

Thanks. I have found my go to amp for sure. Anything I can add is just extra icing cause this F50 is a fine toolkit.

Tom

Tom,

I've long been curious about this too...let us know what you think if you give it a try.

Surfcaster

04-18-2006, 08:36 PM

Originally posted by CJCorcoran
Hi, I'm new around here. I recently purchased a used F-50 amp off of eBay. The F-50 is one of the older (manufactured around 2002), slimmer case models. I am using an Epiphone Les Paul with with a Seymour Duncan SH-1 '59 model at the neck and a Screamin' Demon at the bridge. I have every knob on the guitar set to max. The problem is I use the "instant gratification" settings suggested by Mesa/Boggie, but the bass distorts. I have to set the thing barely on before it distorts. I already switched the amp's power and preamp tubes and this didn't make the problem as bad, but the amp still distorts way too early in my opinion. And before I get flamed, I know it's risky buying stuff off of eBay. However, this seller seemed reputable since he had over 6000+ positive feedback and deals specifically in music equipment.

Any suggestion?

--Chris

Chris,

First of all, I've bought gear over eBay myself a few times and always had good luck (including a tube amp and a guitar), so I sure won't bash you for that.

I've been pretty impressed with the results of using EQ in front of the amp to pull back on some bass frequencies to tame that, then boosting the bass back with more EQ in the loop. hal9000 posted some EQ settings a page or two back that serve as a good starting point...you can adjust to taste from there.

And just a few days ago I replaced V2 with a JAN Philips 5751, which has about 70% the gain of a 12AX7. To be honest, I noticed only slightly less gain with that tube, and while it didn't totally clamp down on the loose bottom, it did make it somewhat tighter. My guess is this would not entirely solve your problem, but might be one part of it. I'm somewhat tempted to try an even lower gain tube since even with the 5751 the F50 had more gain than I normally use.

Surfcaster

04-18-2006, 09:18 PM

Andy,

I've been thinking of making a custom footswitch for my F50 and was looking at your diagrams from the early part of this thread and had a couple questions.

1) Is a simple on/off switch all that's needed to trigger the function...i.e., when the contour pin is connected to the ground, contour is on and when it's disconnected contour is off? Or when the channel button is connected to ground you get one channel and when it's not you get the other channel?

2) If I wanted contour on all the time would I just hardwire the contour pin to the ground pin? Likewise with reverb?

Thanks!

Ogi-wan

04-19-2006, 12:51 AM

Congratulations! :)

Originally posted by Surfcaster
I know this is off topic, but I feel like this thread is my home on this forum so I thought I'd share here. Just wanted to let you all know my wife and I had a baby girl over the weekend...12:29 am on Sunday...7 lbs 13 ozs. Both Mom and baby Claire are doing great and we're grateful to God for the blessing of a second daughter.

markmann

04-19-2006, 05:08 AM

Originally posted by Surfcaster

Chris,

First of all, I've bought gear over eBay myself a few times and always had good luck (including a tube amp and a guitar), so I sure won't bash you for that.

I've been pretty impressed with the results of using EQ in front of the amp to pull back on some bass frequencies to tame that, then boosting the bass back with more EQ in the loop. hal9000 posted some EQ settings a page or two back that serve as a good starting point...you can adjust to taste from there.

And just a few days ago I replaced V2 with a JAN Philips 5751, which has about 70% the gain of a 12AX7. To be honest, I noticed only slightly less gain with that tube, and while it didn't totally clamp down on the loose bottom, it did make it somewhat tighter. My guess is this would not entirely solve your problem, but might be one part of it. I'm somewhat tempted to try an even lower gain tube since even with the 5751 the F50 had more gain than I normally use. Surf, congrat's on the baby girl, is she your first?

So in your opinion was it worth switching to the 5751 or not noticable enough to make a difference? As much as I love the tone of my amp I'm thinking that I'm missing out on being able to use some of the bassier settings since I pull back on the low end to avoid the loose bottom. I know that some of the brothers have been successful using EQ pre and post but it goes against my grain to add two more items to my signal chain if the issue can be solved with a tube.

songsmith1950

04-19-2006, 05:52 AM

First, to Surfcaster, Mom, and Claire, Congratulations!!!! God has blessed you my friends, just as you said. My own daughters are 12, 14, and 35. Yep, 35 was not a misprint. I started over at 41 with the wonderful lady who is my best friend, lady, and wife now and forever.

I can only tell you that as time goes by the gift of the child will only become more and more profound.

May God bless you and yours my friends.

Tom

songsmith1950

04-19-2006, 06:04 AM

The more I play my F50 the more I love it. That is certain. The way it pulls such a fullness from my AMDel Strat is pure magic. The SCN's through an F50 are so rich.

The way it really allows the P90's on my 56 Goldtop Reissue to bloom and live it something os magical.

Last night I splored a little.

First just played it a while, with the 6L6 Mesa's in it. Sounded full and I am sure you are all very familiar with what this setup does. It is great, full and loud with very late distortion and a full bottom end.

Then I replaced the 6L6's with a set of Mesa 6V6's I had on hand. They worked perfectly with no problems at all. I played about half and hour this way. The bottom end does drop out some and she surely does begin overdrive far more easily. Very much a Deluxe Reverb type sound on the clean channel, and easy breakup on the drive channel. Still a nice bit of headroom though on clean. Still loud, though not as much so. Nice alternative for a smaller room if the grand piano bassnotes of the 6L6's are not needed.

Then I installed my Yellow Jackets with Groove Tube EL84's. It did bring about a lot of the F30 sound that I almost bought. If they had not had this "barely used and mint" F50 I would probably have gotten the new F30. As it was I got an incredible deal on an amp someone got expecting Mesa to equal metal and just didn't use it.

EL84's do give sparkle. They do diminish the bottom end even more than the 6V6's but they also give thier own characteristics so nicely. You CAN get a Vox sound from this amp with EL84's. The volumes is far less than the 6L6's and about the same if not just a tad less than the 6V6's. Still able to get plenty loud and still a lot of clean headroom if desired but a different flavor.

I will not hesitate to run any of these setups again at any volume. I also am going to find a speaker cab so I can speriment with some vintage type alnico's, ala Vox Blue and certainly the alnico Jensen replacements, using Webers of both types.

This is fun, my friends and I am having a ball. Most of all I do believe that out of all of the amps I have bought since 1964 and there have been many of all vintage types, this may be the fullest, best, and most versatile I have ever owned.

Yep, I like it.

Tom

Songsmith

Ogi-wan

04-19-2006, 09:00 AM

That is quite an endorsement! :)

This is fun, my friends and I am having a ball. Most of all I do believe that out of all of the amps I have bought since 1964 and there have been many of all vintage types, this may be the fullest, best, and most versatile I have ever owned.

[/B]

SERGV

04-19-2006, 09:06 AM

whaddup yawls?! great thread! I done picked up my Mesa F-30 about a month ago and I'm loving it, sweet little amp.

peace

Jaggery

04-19-2006, 10:42 AM

Surfcaster,

Congrats on the baby!
Seems like its the season for baby girls.
Everybody I know is having them.:)

Regarding F50,

Did you notice a change in the higher/mids when you changed to JAN-Philips 5751?

I feel the distortion is a little harsh for my taste or should I call it grainy. The thing I like about the gain channel is that they sustain beautifully. And yes they have more gain than i use.

So I am thinking of putting either a complete set of 5751 or EH12AX7 in them to see if this tames the slightly harsh trebles.

Anyone here tried EH preamp tubes in their F-Series.

(excuse me if this has already been discussed).

I wish there was a way to download the contents of the thread for an easy search.

CJCorcoran

04-19-2006, 11:22 AM

I have found that using my GT-3 processor in various ways eliminates the bass problem I was having. What multfx processors do people use here?

Surfcaster

04-19-2006, 12:18 PM

Jaggery,

Even the tonal difference with the 5751 was very subtle...if anything, it seemed a bit brighter than the Mesa 12AX7. One of these days I'll try to record some good comparison clips and if i do, I'll post them.

Edit: But I don't think it will happen anytime soon with a newborn in the house 24/7! :)

mr. tickles

04-20-2006, 02:56 PM

First: CONGRATULATIONS SURFCASTER!!

That is great news!

Second: Can anyone help me with finding a good reggae setting on my f-50?

I have stock mesa tubes if that matters at all, and a boss ge-7 in the loop.

Thanks,

Cam

Ogi-wan

04-22-2006, 01:46 AM

I've got a poll up at

http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1225286

The question is "Which mode do you use more often?"

The choices are:

1) Channel 2

2) Channel 2 + Contour

VoodooChild24

04-22-2006, 01:55 AM

I use channel 2 more often. But the clean channel has an awesome tone as well. I go for both. Ii use contour channel less.

VoodooChild24

04-22-2006, 02:02 AM

Hello everyone, just wanted to share my my experience recently with my new pedal "Keeley Fuzzhead" in front of my F100 (clean ch).

I have been searching for that "bluesy" tone that's really transparent and i dialed in the right combination last night. The Clean channel of my F100 really complimented the fuzz/overdrive of the fuzzhead and produced tone heaven for me.

I tried doing the same thing with the clean channel of my triple recto and i just can't get the same tone.

Now, i'm really beginning to think that the F in the f-series stands for Fender. Awesome cleans! :thu:

LP --> Keeley Fuzzhed ---> F100 = Awesome blues tone. Here's a pic.

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c77/VoodooChild24/DSCN2868.jpg

Dann'sTheMan

04-22-2006, 12:33 PM

Hi Brothers,

I've been a bit quiet lately - apologies, work has been keeping me busy, and my music plate has been stacked pretty full with various P&W gigs (http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=1204352), and an imminent wedding performance for an old Berlin friend.

By way of catching up...

Tom, aka songsmith1950, great to hear you're having such great experiences with you Boogie's versatility. I've heard second hand that the guys at Mesa also speak highly of putting Yellow Jackets in the F-50. I'd love to give it a try one day. :thu:

Chris, aka CJCorcoran, when you say the "bass distorts", are you talking about speaker distortion, or some other unwanted clipping or general pre-amp distortion?

Surfcaster, congratulations on your new arrival! What fantastic news. I have two daughters myself, and I consider myself blessed. :) Regarding your switching question, yes, a simple latching switch is all that is required. Connecting the appropriate pin (Contour, Channel, Reverb) to ground will affect that function. Hardwiring the appropriate pin to ground will permanently engage or disengage that function e.g. IIRC, hardwiring the Reverb pin to ground will permanently DISengage the Reverb. :)

SERGV, welcome to the brotherhood. Great to hear your Boogie is rockin' your world. :)

CAM, aka mr. tickles, try hal9000's Single Coil Blackface Clean (http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y34/afraiddave/hal9000sF-SeriesAuditionSettingsrevA.jpg) as a starting point. I find increasing the gain makes the tone more present, and modern, which may be good for the reggae sound your after. Alternatively, if you have a clean boost pedal (maybe try your EQ pedal in front of the amp with the EQ flat, but the Output set high), then try backing off the gain to 9 o'clock, and then hitting the front end hard with the pedal - stunning Twin style cleans. :p

Ogi-wan, I'll check out your thread soon. :)

VoodooChild24, the fun I've had with my old Dynacomp in front of the F-50 has convinced me that there are some glorious sounds to be had with the right pedals pushing the F-series. If you can, please do share some clips of your Keeley in front of your "Fender"-100. :D

Big smiles,

Andy.

VoodooChild24

04-22-2006, 12:45 PM

Originally posted by Dann'sTheMan

VoodooChild24, the fun I've had with my old Dynacomp in front of the F-50 has convinced me that there are some glorious sounds to be had with the right pedals pushing the F-series. If you can, please do share some clips of your Keeley in front of your "Fender"-100. :D

Big smiles,

Andy.

Hey Andy, i agree with you brother. It's just amazing how the F series is pedal friendly as well. I have been using my dynacomp as a clean boost as recommended by you. Yeah, the clean is closest i heard so far to a Fender.

I wanted to post some clips of the FuzzHead thru the F100 but i don't wanna pain our fellow brothers here of hearing my sloppiness and suckiness in playing.

:D

klvanzu

04-22-2006, 01:36 PM

Originally posted by VoodooChild24

Hey Andy, i agree with you brother. It's just amazing how the F series is pedal friendly as well. I have been using my dynacomp as a clean boost as recommended by you. Yeah, the clean is closest i heard so far to a Fender.

I wanted to post some clips of the FuzzHead thru the F100 but i don't wanna pain our fellow brothers here of hearing my sloppiness and suckiness in playing.

:D

i love sloppy suckiness! - shit man no one here cares just go for it :thu:

Rush01

04-23-2006, 12:27 PM

Hey guys.. finally made it over here. I've been running the new Zoom G2.1u unit with my F-50 and it's been pretty sweet. Here are some pics and glad to be part of this community. The F-50 is a sweet amp. I decided to bring a demo home with me to tide me over until my Series 2 Mesa RK arrived. I had it for about two months and decided to cancel my order. It just does everything I want pretty much. There are of course a few things I could change, but they are minor.

My custom F-50 in Wine Taurus with a wheat grill. I am also looking for a black grille, so if anyone has one for sale let me know.
http://www.davidrodgers.net/images/dave/images/MesaF50Custom.jpg

My pedalboard. I wish this little zoom unit had a channel switch function, but everything else about it kicks butt. Under the riser is an ISP Decimator and at the moment a Boss EQ, but I swap things in and out of that space often depending on my mood.
http://www.davidrodgers.net/images/dave/images/PedalBoard.jpg

mr.sosa

04-23-2006, 08:22 PM

I have a question for you guys

i was reading a carvin catalog the other day, and in the specs for the vintage 16 I noticed the specific frequencies for the channel's EQ (60, 650, and 11.5K Hz).

Does anybody know the frequencies for the f-series' two channels?
all i know is the contour boosts gain, bass & treble by...3db? i think.

anyway this would probably help me a bit while tweaking the f-50 with the loop eq i plugged in; other people too.

thanks in advance :thu:

- Danny

Gazz

04-24-2006, 03:53 AM

Hi Rush

I notice you are using a Zoom G2 with your F50. I use the one too. Are you using it in the loop, what settings work best for you, what sort of effects are you using it for.

I have found by using the control section for master volume I can attenuate the F50 down (or up) quite well.

Or are you using it front end?

Regards

Gazz

Dann'sTheMan

04-24-2006, 07:20 AM

Originally posted by Rush01
Hey guys.. finally made it over here. I've been running the new Zoom G2.1u unit with my F-50 and it's been pretty sweet. Here are some pics and glad to be part of this community. The F-50 is a sweet amp. I decided to bring a demo home with me to tide me over until my Series 2 Mesa RK arrived. I had it for about two months and decided to cancel my order. It just does everything I want pretty much. There are of course a few things I could change, but they are minor.

My custom F-50 in Wine Taurus with a wheat grill. I am also looking for a black grille, so if anyone has one for sale let me know.
<snip>

My pedalboard. I wish this little zoom unit had a channel switch function, but everything else about it kicks butt. Under the riser is an ISP Decimator and at the moment a Boss EQ, but I swap things in and out of that space often depending on my mood.
<snip>

Hi Rush01,

Welcome to the F-series brotherhood @ HCAF. :) Your custom F-50 looks really classy! What do you plan to do with the black grille? I'd certainly consider swapping mine for a wheat one - I had intended to go in that direct but using the home conversion approach that Neil (hal9000) documented a while back. :thu:

Regarding your Zoom unit, does it have MIDI output - if so, there are devices around for translating MIDI into footswitch control functions. :)

Big smiles,

Andy.

Rush01

04-24-2006, 09:10 AM

Originally posted by Gazz
Hi Rush

I notice you are using a Zoom G2 with your F50. I use the one too. Are you using it in the loop, what settings work best for you, what sort of effects are you using it for.

I have found by using the control section for master volume I can attenuate the F50 down (or up) quite well.

Or are you using it front end?

Regards

Gazz

Hey Gazz,

I use mine mainly in the loop. I haven't messed with the control function but that sounds like an experiment I'd like to check out. I also haven't programmed a lot of stuff on it just yet.

I use it mainly for delay and modulations at the moment. It's a pretty feature rich little unit, so I need to explore it more.

Are you just running a volume pedal into the the control port and then going straight into the front input?

Rush01

04-24-2006, 09:20 AM

Originally posted by Dann'sTheMan

Hi Rush01,

Welcome to the F-series brotherhood @ HCAF. :) Your custom F-50 looks really classy! What do you plan to do with the black grille? I'd certainly consider swapping mine for a wheat one - I had intended to go in that direct but using the home conversion approach that Neil (hal9000) documented a while back. :thu:

Regarding your Zoom unit, does it have MIDI output - if so, there are devices around for translating MIDI into footswitch control functions. :)

Big smiles,

Andy.

Andy,

Thanks man. I plan on putting the black grille on the amp! I think it will look pretty sweet with the wine taurus covering. I'm still not sold on trading it, would rather have both grills, but I'll keep that in mind.

This little Zoom G2.1u doesn't have MIDI, so I can't employ any of the Axess Electronics products like the CFX with it. It also doesn't have any channel switch jacks, so I'm SOL there too. Zoom makes some bigger floorboards that do have MIDI that I have been thinking about, but I like my pedalbaord the way it is.

Zoom G9.2tt
Guitar Tube FX Pedal w/USB
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/G92TT

Zoom G7.1ut
Guitar Tube FX Pedal w/USB
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/G71UT

Would love to get rid of that big mesa footswitch and the riser, and have debated putting the the small circuit board and switches of footswitch into a smaller housing.

It works pretty well the way it is, but I'm always looking for smaller and simpler solutions. If I really wanted to I could lose everything but the Zoom and the footswitch. If I were able to mod the footswitch into a smaller housing that would make for one tiny pedalboard. Ideally I would love to have midi control of my fx and my channel switching, but to do that I'd have to go bigger.

Surfcaster

04-24-2006, 03:20 PM

Over the weekend I discovered I could cannabilize enough parts from a couple homebrew pedals I was no longer using to make a pedal with two independent loops whose footswitches are close enough they can easily be engaged/disengaged with a single stomp. So now I can have an EQ pedal in front of the amp and one in the loop, turn them both on simultaneously to tighten the bass on the lead channel, but can disengage them simultaneously when switching to the clean channel.

I'm pretty pleased with the end result. Right now only one loop has an LED indicator, so I need to rig something up for the second (since I discovered it IS possible to hit the switches in such a way that only one actually engages).

I had a friend over to listen to the amp with the EQ adjustments and without. His statement confirmed what I was thinking...with the EQ engaged the tone has a strong Marshall flavor. So, with this new pedal I can go from Marshall to Boogie with a single stomp! :thu:

Gazz

04-24-2006, 04:09 PM

Hi Rush

I have the smaller G2 with no pedal. I use a crybaby front end for wha.

But the G2 is in the loop and I use it only for time based effects, the F50 has all the dirt I could ask for.

When I set up I go into the control function and using the right hand knob take the volume down to about number 50 ( I think the unit is set at 80) this acts as attenuator and covers all the effect programs in the unit. I do this because it allows me to cranlk up the pre and post volumes on the amp which opens it up and sound richer. I use about 5patches , delays reverbs, and one for a Thin Lizzy number, it just about sounds like harmony. I also use the tap tempo fuinction which it really good.

I had a prob with power to it until I got a dedicated independent supply as it seems to use a lot but know its fine.

Good luck with yours and post your results on the board.

Regards
Gazz

thrash

04-26-2006, 12:24 PM

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i313/jemthrash/Rig.jpg

Mesa F-100 JJ Tubes
Mesa 2x12 3/4 back cab
Boss Ge-7 EQ Through the Loop
Morley Bad Horsie
Ibanez Jem 7VWH Stock
Ibanez RGA121 Prestiege Breed/Paf Joe 3-Way Switch
ESP EX-351 EMG 81/85

Rush01

04-26-2006, 01:45 PM

Originally posted by Gazz
Hi Rush

I have the smaller G2 with no pedal. I use a crybaby front end for wha.

But the G2 is in the loop and I use it only for time based effects, the F50 has all the dirt I could ask for.

When I set up I go into the control function and using the right hand knob take the volume down to about number 50 ( I think the unit is set at 80) this acts as attenuator and covers all the effect programs in the unit. I do this because it allows me to cranlk up the pre and post volumes on the amp which opens it up and sound richer. I use about 5patches , delays reverbs, and one for a Thin Lizzy number, it just about sounds like harmony. I also use the tap tempo fuinction which it really good.

I had a prob with power to it until I got a dedicated independent supply as it seems to use a lot but know its fine.

Good luck with yours and post your results on the board.

Regards
Gazz

I'm not sure I'm following the signal path. From the guitar you go into the amp? or into the Control? I'm not sure how you are attenuating the amp signal with the G2 by having it in the loop.

More info would be appreciated. I'd like to check it out in that scenario.

Gazz

04-26-2006, 04:16 PM

Hi

Guitar to input on amp ( front end )

Effects loop send to input on G2. (Set the mix to max)

G2 output to return on effects loop in amp

Turn off all the effects on the G2 relating to dist/ordverdrive/ boost/compressor, unless you want to make some specilaised sounds .

Use the master control volume on G2 to attenuate ALL the programs in the G2 . You access this by turning the first knob all the way round to the right, then use the extreme right hand knob to adjust the level down ( or up if you are deaf!)

Try it and see how you get on.

Regards
Gazz

Rush01

04-26-2006, 05:13 PM

Use the master control volume on G2 to attenuate ALL the programs in the G2 . You access this by turning the first knob all the way round to the right, then use the extreme right hand knob to adjust the level down ( or up if you are deaf!)

Try it and see how you get on.

Regards
Gazz [/B]

Hmm.. This just doesn't seem like it would attenuate the sound of the amp UNLESS you have the Loop Mix on the amp maxed out. Is that what you're talking about? I never turn my loop mix control past about 11oclock, but I'll give this a shot and see what happens.

Jaggery

04-26-2006, 07:59 PM

Hey,

I also got a G2 and as of now I am using it in front and it has some great overdrive/distortion patches.

I ordered a MI Crunchbox, should be here next week.

Stay tuned.:wave:

sublime215

04-26-2006, 10:55 PM

Hello Fellow F-50'ers. I am a proud owner, first time poster. I have an F-50 Head, Vertical 2x12 Recto Cab [stage use] with mixed Celestions from Avatar, and a Mesa 1x12 widebody half-back cabinet for home use.

I am just getting into fx pedals and dislike the F-50 footswitch more all the time. I never use the contour mode, I accidentally turn off reverb all the time, and the pedal is fairly large on a pedal board. I would like to substitute the factory pedal for a small barebones single footswitch with LED - off/on = clean/distortion. Has anybody done this before? Are there any third-party MIDI latch pedals that would accomplish this? I've seen the pedal mods from HAL9000 and some talented others in this thread, but they all seemed to related to large pedal matrix systems. I just need a simple channel switcher... no contour, reverb, or fx loop.

Any resources, diagrams, or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I have very limited knowlege about electronics/engineering, but I'm certainly comfortable splicing wires. Thank you so much!

Gazz

04-27-2006, 02:25 AM

Hi Rush, yeh thats what I meant by 'turn the mix to max' Turn the effects loop mix control to max. Acutally doing this sets the signal to 90%, but thats ok because unless you wanted to compltetly turn the volume down using the G2 it wouldnt work. But for attenuation all you are trying to achieve is to tame the sound down to suit the situation.

I use the G2 just for time based effects nothing else.

Hi Jaggery, your method of hooking up puzzles me a little. Why pay £1000 ( here in the UK) for an amp which has a superb tonal circuit, is responsive to touch, has a boogie voicing then to put a multi effects pedal in the front end effectively masking the true sound of the amp. If you use the distortion and overdrives in this way you are using digital re-creations of tube break up when you could have the real thing if you go straight into the front end of the amp.

The only benefit of going front end is you would have the time based effects like reverb and delay after the dirt.All loaded from the G2 pedal as memeory patches . But if you connect the G2 in the loop this places the times based effects AFTER the amps' distortion and sounds much much clearer. I think it is common wisdom to hook things up in this way.

Although I know it much simpler to have everything done by the G2 (or similair) and use the amp as a sort of master power amp. But if you wanted to do that get any tube amp and set it clean and that works. But with Boogies were talking a cut above your normal Marshall, Laney, Peavey type rig.

Hope this helps

Regards Gaz

hal9000

04-27-2006, 07:07 AM

Originally posted by sublime215
Hello Fellow F-50'ers. I am a proud owner, first time poster. I have an F-50 Head, Vertical 2x12 Recto Cab [stage use] with mixed Celestions from Avatar, and a Mesa 1x12 widebody half-back cabinet for home use.

I am just getting into fx pedals and dislike the F-50 footswitch more all the time. I never use the contour mode, I accidentally turn off reverb all the time, and the pedal is fairly large on a pedal board. I would like to substitute the factory pedal for a small barebones single footswitch with LED - off/on = clean/distortion. Has anybody done this before? Are there any third-party MIDI latch pedals that would accomplish this? I've seen the pedal mods from HAL9000 and some talented others in this thread, but they all seemed to related to large pedal matrix systems. I just need a simple channel switcher... no contour, reverb, or fx loop.

Any resources, diagrams, or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I have very limited knowlege about electronics/engineering, but I'm certainly comfortable splicing wires. Thank you so much! Sublime, welcome to the forum and the F-series brotherhood! :)

Basically any latching-type footswitch (e.g. BOSS FS-5L) will do the trick for changing channels. You'll have to wire a patch cable between the footswitch and the F-50's cable or you can make your own 1/4" -> DIN-5 cable. With the FS-5L you’ll only get an LED indication in one of the modes of the switch, just like the F-50’s footswitch. A caveat with this type of design is that you'll need a battery in the footswitch to light the LED, but they usually last a long time.

I could design a single footswitch with a dual LED (green=clean, red=OD) that would require a bit of electronics to get going, a Hammond enclosure (or similar), a nice panel mount bi-color LED, a latching footswitch, and a panel-mount female DIN-5 connector. Most of the cost will be in the hardware and LED. The problem with this kind of footswitch IMO is that you're limiting yourself to only two of the three modes available. Contour can be very-useful even in low gain situations, especially for some of the more Marshall-inspired tones. So, before you decide to have a go at a single footswitch perhaps a little more time with the amp will lead you to some expanded usage of all three modes on the F-series.

In my setup, I use the G-Major to equalize the jump in volume for Contour so all three channels have an equal volume. This gives me three-channel operation which is much fun. Of course, my setup is MIDI-based so all this control is rather easy.

Rush01

04-27-2006, 09:20 AM

Originally posted by Gazz
[B]Hi Rush, yeh thats what I meant by 'turn the mix to max' Turn the effects loop mix control to max. Acutally doing this sets the signal to 90%, but thats ok because unless you wanted to compltetly turn the volume down using the G2 it wouldnt work. But for attenuation all you are trying to achieve is to tame the sound down to suit the situation.

To my ears if I max out the loop it sucks a lot of the tone out of the amp. After about 11oclock on the dial it seems to start progressively degrading the native tone of the amp. I'll give it a shot though and see how it works. Thanks!

Dann'sTheMan

04-28-2006, 01:53 AM

Originally posted by sublime215
Hello Fellow F-50'ers. I am a proud owner, first time poster. I have an F-50 Head, Vertical 2x12 Recto Cab [stage use] with mixed Celestions from Avatar, and a Mesa 1x12 widebody half-back cabinet for home use.

I am just getting into fx pedals and dislike the F-50 footswitch more all the time. I never use the contour mode, I accidentally turn off reverb all the time, and the pedal is fairly large on a pedal board. I would like to substitute the factory pedal for a small barebones single footswitch with LED - off/on = clean/distortion. Has anybody done this before? Are there any third-party MIDI latch pedals that would accomplish this? I've seen the pedal mods from HAL9000 and some talented others in this thread, but they all seemed to related to large pedal matrix systems. I just need a simple channel switcher... no contour, reverb, or fx loop.

Any resources, diagrams, or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I have very limited knowlege about electronics/engineering, but I'm certainly comfortable splicing wires. Thank you so much!

Hello sublime215,

Welcome to HCAF and the cool (imo) F-series brotherhood that hangs out here! :) How long have you had your F-50, and what kind of music do you play?

Regarding your footswitch question, be aware that although the Mesa's footswitch uses a 5 pin DIN cable, it's not actually a MIDI system (MIDI uses 5-pin DIN cables too).

Here's a schematic of the Mesa footswitch:http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/attachment.php?postid=12175630

You'll see all the footswitch contains is three latching mechanical switches (REV, RHY/LD, CNTR), two LEDs, and a wire going back towards the Ground. All you're interested in is the RHY/LD switch and LED and the Ground wire. Put those in a project box, splice up a custom cable to go from your project box to Mesa's 5-pin DIN connector (you can leave the REV and CNTR pins disconnected) - check out the second post of the Lounge for more, and you're good to go! :cool:

Big smiles,

Andy.

hal9000

04-28-2006, 06:33 AM

I finally decided to write down my super scoop settings for the G-Major, whilst employing my Humbucker Metal Rhythm setting because it rocks hard and you guys might get a kick out of it.

Use this setting:

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y34/afraiddave/hal9000HumbuckerMetalRhythmCH2Contour.jpg

Configure the G-Major's EQ as such.

EQ1:
Frequency = ~100 Hz
Gain = +12 dB
Width = 1.0 Octave

EQ2:
Frequency = ~750 Hz
Gain = -12 dB
Width = 1.0 Octave

EQ3:
Frequency = ~5.1 kHz
Gain = +5 dB
Width = 1.0 Octave

Although it seems to be a ridiculous amount of scoopage, it cuts through like a knife (for rhythm of course) and sounds mean. When I play anything off of Master of Puppets, I go directly to this patch, however, I usually reduce the gain to about 10:30-11:00 to match the recordings. You can further enhance the tight bass by using an EQ up front with a treble boost, but that's not really necessary. Finally, I'm running both my F-100 2x12 (V30s) and my closed-back Avatar 2x12 (V30s) so it handles the bass no problem. If you're running fewer speakers, you may need to reduce the bass a bit.

BTW, any EQ can give the same results as long as it sounds good in the loop. The octave width of each parametric band simply means that the gain is distributed +/- 1/2 of the frequency -3 dB. So, if you wanted to use the 750 Hz @ -12 dB and 1 Octave, you figure out this setting as follows:

1) Center Frequency = 750 Hz
2) -1/2 Octave = 750 (Hz)/2 = 375 Hz
3) -1/2 Octave Level = -12 dB + 3 dB = -9 dB
4) +1/2 Octave = 750 (Hz)/2 + 750 Hz = 1125 Hz
5) -1/2 Octave Level = +1/2 Octave Level = -9 dB

So, on a graphic EQ according to the above calculations this is how it would be set:

375 Hz = -9 dB
750 = -12 dB
1125 Hz = -9 dB

What's really cool in using the parametric EQ on the G-Major is that you can sweep the frequencies until they sound good. Try sweeping the EQ3 setting from 2 kHz to 8 kHz and the sound goes from painfully nasal to ice pick city and everywhere in between. :)

markmann

05-01-2006, 06:03 AM

Originally posted by Gazz
I use the G2 just for time based effects nothing else.

Hi Jaggery, your method of hooking up puzzles me a little. Why pay £1000 ( here in the UK) for an amp which has a superb tonal circuit, is responsive to touch, has a boogie voicing then to put a multi effects pedal in the front end effectively masking the true sound of the amp. If you use the distortion and overdrives in this way you are using digital re-creations of tube break up when you could have the real thing if you go straight into the front end of the amp.

The only benefit of going front end is you would have the time based effects like reverb and delay after the dirt.All loaded from the G2 pedal as memeory patches . But if you connect the G2 in the loop this places the times based effects AFTER the amps' distortion and sounds much much clearer. I think it is common wisdom to hook things up in this way.

Although I know it much simpler to have everything done by the G2 (or similair) and use the amp as a sort of master power amp. But if you wanted to do that get any tube amp and set it clean and that works. But with Boogies were talking a cut above your normal Marshall, Laney, Peavey type rig.

Hope this helps

Regards Gaz Hey Gazz, I can't speak for Jaggery but in my case I prefer everything out front for live playing. When I first got my f50 I was using a Rocktron Intellifex in the loop for time based effects, and loved the clarity when playing solo, but in a live band situation those effects didn't work for me. In the end I went "old school" with a pedalboard out front and prefer the grittier sound for live use, which to me cuts through the mix with less volume. The other benefit is that all my effects are on one board which makes setup, transport and on-the-fly tweaking a snap. I do miss the presets but for me that feature was more of a luxury than a necessity.

Gazz

05-02-2006, 01:38 AM

Hi Markmann

thanks for the info. Tell me what do you use in your board?

My set up is

Guitar
Dunlop cry baby
Boss Floor Tuner
Boss SD1 ( monte allums mod)
AXL Tremelo pedal
F 50 ( front input)

Zoom G2 effects pedal in loop ( everything turned off except reverb for patch 1, then 3 patches for for different lenghts of delay, one patch for harmoniser. I have also connected a unlatching boss momentary pedal for tap tempo.

For me this set up works because I have all the grit I need front end ( like your point Markmann ) but I also have the time based effects at the right point in the signal path.

What I'm thinking is if you use a delay pedal at the end of some pedals, then go into the amp , when you use the amps' distortion does it sound strange, ie delay before dirt !

Unless you have found a new way of doing it, I would love ot hear from you.

Best

markmann

05-02-2006, 07:18 AM

Originally posted by Gazz
Hi Markmann

thanks for the info. Tell me what do you use in your board?

My set up is

Guitar
Dunlop cry baby
Boss Floor Tuner
Boss SD1 ( monte allums mod)
AXL Tremelo pedal
F 50 ( front input)

Zoom G2 effects pedal in loop ( everything turned off except reverb for patch 1, then 3 patches for for different lenghts of delay, one patch for harmoniser. I have also connected a unlatching boss momentary pedal for tap tempo.

For me this set up works because I have all the grit I need front end ( like your point Markmann ) but I also have the time based effects at the right point in the signal path.

What I'm thinking is if you use a delay pedal at the end of some pedals, then go into the amp , when you use the amps' distortion does it sound strange, ie delay before dirt !

Unless you have found a new way of doing it, I would love ot hear from you.

Best Nope, that's basically it. What I have on my board varies by gig but here's a typical setup:

Guitar
EB Volume pedal (TU-2 sidechained off vol ped)
Budda Wah
Distotion or OD pedal
Keeley CE-2
Delay
F50

Keep in mind that I don't use a whole lot of amp gain and this is my basic LIVE signal chain. This is also very close to my chain years ago, before the onset of using effects in a loop, and before I went all rack for seven years. I am now "old shool" again and this works for me, as it did before.