Mesa F-series Lounge. Come on in and share your secrets. [Archive] - Page 5 - Harmony Central Musician Community Forums

Dann'sTheMan

01-03-2006, 03:15 PM

Originally posted by hal9000
BTW, we are now 1000 posts strong. I'm so proud of the Lounge with all the great people and information. This is the definitve one-stop-shop for all things F-series. How fitting that Andy should be the 1000th poster. :thu:

Thanks Neil,

and props to you for starting the first F-series Owners thread, many moons ago before the brotherhood had grown to size that it now is, and could therefore sustain a thread for so long.

Props also to Tommi Inkila, for suggesting such a thread in the first place - I don't think any of us expected it would take on a life of its own and run and run.

Most importantly, props to all of the contributors who have given this thread life. I increasingly see other resources on the web, directing new brothers here, and this increasing variety and breadth continues to pump fresh blood and revitalise us all with interesting new ideas.

If Mesa haven't already heard about us, I'd be surprised. We're a marketing department's dream come true, and yet, even that doesn't matter in the great scheme of things. What does matter, are the friendships that have grown here, and that all of us have benefitted from getting more out of our Boogies, and our rigs, and in this way, our music. Rock on! :thu:

Big smiles,

Andy.

"sasquatch"

01-03-2006, 03:23 PM

andy,
can u please post those settings (or link me, or pm me) to "classic high gain sound?" i can definitely hear a lot of room in that clip, whether its mic placement or post digi-effects.

thanks,
adam

Dann'sTheMan

01-03-2006, 03:50 PM

Originally posted by doggage5050
andy,
can u please post those settings (or link me, or pm me) to "classic high gain sound?" i can definitely hear a lot of room in that clip, whether its mic placement or post digi-effects.

thanks,
adam

Hi Adam,

I responded to your question over at that "other" Forum. :p

Heres a link: http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showthread.php?p=1105945#post1105945

Big smiles,

Andy.

Gazz

01-04-2006, 01:38 AM

Thanks for the info Andy & Hal. That would explain why my SE50 sounds better in the loop than the G2.

It would also explain why the g major works so well. So I asssume that any correctly matched processor would do the same.

Just a question though, why when you turn down the volume ofa say a patch that just has reverb does the whole volume drop in the loop and not just the level of reverb leaving the original volume level. Is it something to do with serial/parallel effect loops
and what the difference between them anyway? Is the F50 serial or parallel?

Congrats on a great resource for F users. I have never seen anything like this before, its quite remarkable

Dann'sTheMan

01-04-2006, 03:12 AM

Originally posted by Gazz
Thanks for the info Andy & Hal. That would explain why my SE50 sounds better in the loop than the G2.

It would also explain why the g major works so well. So I asssume that any correctly matched processor would do the same.

Just a question though, why when you turn down the volume ofa say a patch that just has reverb does the whole volume drop in the loop and not just the level of reverb leaving the original volume level. Is it something to do with serial/parallel effect loops
and what the difference between them anyway? Is the F50 serial or parallel?

Congrats on a great resource for F users. I have never seen anything like this before, its quite remarkable

Hi Gaz,

Yes, any correctly matched processor would indeed do the same. :)

Regarding floor processors that can do this, it may be worth keeping an eye out for Multi-FX units that have their own FX loop (Send and Return). The FX loop would also be at Line level, and the Multi-FX unit could be connected to the amp with the "Four-cable method".

http://edanders.home.comcast.net/images/efx/9030_s.jpg

My Zoom 9030 has its own loop (I used to simply balance it on top of my amp), and so other Zoom units may do too. The Boss GT series generally have their own loops. The new TC Electronic G-System has its own loop - great unit but crazily expensive imho (by the way, I bought my G-Major through www.thomann.de last Spring at a great price).

Regarding your question about series and parallel loops:
* In a series loop, 100% of the signal is sent out of the amp for processing. There is some risk with this, because if the processor(s) or stomp box(es) are not of decent quality, the entire signal is degraded.
* In a parallel loop, a portion of the signal is retained by the amp. The effected "wet" signal is mixed back in with the signal that the amp retained. Even if the "wet" signal has been degraded, the purity of amp's core tone should not have been compromised.
The downside of the parallel loop approach is that all digital processors require a few milliseconds to effect the signal. This creates a very short time delay between the "wet" signal being output by the processor, and the "dry" signal back at the amp. As the two signals are mixed back together, they are now slightly out of phase with each other and this phasing problem can sound bad with certain FX like EQ.

The F-series has a parallel loop with a Mix control from 10-90% (btw, any loop with a Mix control is a parallel loop). There is a Mod available to convert it to series, but in all honesty, I run my parallel loop at 90% with my G-Major, and I've not had any problems . There might be a small phasing problem between the 10% amp signal and the 90% G-Major signal, but in my experience, it's not enough to hear.

Regarding your question about patch volumes. Digital processors will also parallel mix the signals in each FX block - after all it's a more sophisticated approach. Each FX block will have a Mix parameter between the "dry" signal and the effected "wet" signal (there are no phasing problems as the "dry" signal is automatically delayed so that it stays in phase with the "wet" signal). Each FX block will also have a Level or Volume parameter that will adjust the levels of both the "wet" and "dry" signals together. This is what you were adjusting, so if you want to turn down the level of the reverb and just leave the original volume level, find the Mix parameter and adjust that instead. :)

Big smiles,

Andy.

Gazz

01-04-2006, 06:00 AM

Thanks Andy, ver clearly put.

Gazz

01-05-2006, 01:12 AM

Does anyone know how to re-tune or upgrade the reverb in the F50. Mine sounds ok but I would like to have more of a bloom and deeper reverb, more fendery.

Anyone tried swapping?

klvanzu

01-05-2006, 03:03 AM

just got my f-50 head...do i at least get a "welcome to the club" or something :)

-also i'm getting a new 2X12 cab and i was wondering what types of speakers you guys are using with your f-50s..any input would be great

Dann'sTheMan

01-05-2006, 05:53 AM

Originally posted by Gazz
Does anyone know how to re-tune or upgrade the reverb in the F50. Mine sounds ok but I would like to have more of a bloom and deeper reverb, more fendery.

Anyone tried swapping?

Interesting idea. I use the reverbs (excellent) in my G-Major, but there are lots of advantages in having the reverb coming from the amp (quick and easy adjusting to different venues etc.).

I agree that the F-50's reverb is OK and usable. The best reverb I've heard on a Mesa amp is on the Lonestar Classic - this actually has a Bright and a Warm setting. On the bright setting, it sounds quite similar to the F-series to my ears. On the Warm setting however, it is that traditional and glorious Fender type reverb.

It may be worth trying to contact Mesa, and tracking down the details of the Lonestar's Reverb circuit, and then find out how best to adapt the F-50 accordingly. If you do go down this path, then please let me know, I'd be interested in hearing the progress, :)

Big smiles,

Andy.

Dann'sTheMan

01-05-2006, 06:09 AM

Originally posted by klvanzu
just got my f-50 head...do i at least get a "welcome to the club" or something :)

-also i'm getting a new 2X12 cab and i was wondering what types of speakers you guys are using with your f-50s..any input would be great

Of course you do! Welcome to the F-series brotherhood klvanzu , :)

Regarding your speaker question. The two speakers that are commonly used with F-series are the Celestion Vintage 30 (F-30 and F-100), and the Celestion C90 (F-50) - a Mesa custom version of Celestion CL-80.

As I already have a C90 in my F-50 combo, if I were adding a closed back extension cab, I'd proably consider the Vintage 30s to get an interesting combination. Both speakers have a lot of fans - check out this thread for lots of interesting info:
http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=1106969

Big smiles,

Andy.

hal9000

01-05-2006, 07:05 AM

Originally posted by Gazz
Does anyone know how to re-tune or upgrade the reverb in the F50. Mine sounds ok but I would like to have more of a bloom and deeper reverb, more fendery.

Anyone tried swapping? One of the other options for changing the reverb would be to change the tank. They aren't very expensive ($40 shipped usually), and you can get a bit different tone depending on what you choose. For instance, keeping the same input/output impedance, mounting style, and grounding type, but moving up to a longer tank with more springs or lengthening the delay time will give you a lusher reverb. Also, slightly changing the tank’s driving impedance will give you a different frequency response, but I would advise against that simply because you can make circuit changes that are inexpensive and easy to remove which will have a similar result.

I've never looked at the model number for the tank in my F-100, but it would be interesting to know what it is. Also, the reverb is SS so there are probably a couple of simple mods to be made to the driver and recovery circuits to change the tone. Most likely a couple of caps will allow you to tune the frequency response to whatever you desire, and by changing the gain on the recovery circuit (likely resistors), you can affect the amount of reverb available.

I just called Mesa to ask about the reverb tanks and the driver/recovery circuit, so I’ll report back when I hear from them.

If any of you are interested in learning about how reverb works, and what the driver/recovery circuits usually look like check this out: http://www.accutronicsreverb.com/

I replaced the tank in my Rivera R55-12 a while ago, and found that is much easier to replace than repair them. It only cost me $35 shipped and took a week.

Surfcaster

01-05-2006, 07:06 AM

Originally posted by Gazz
Does anyone know how to re-tune or upgrade the reverb in the F50. Mine sounds ok but I would like to have more of a bloom and deeper reverb, more fendery.

Anyone tried swapping?

I'm interested in this, too, because imho the reverb is the weakest part of this amp. I'll probably buy a dedicated reverb pedal before too long, partly because my new plexi-style amp has no reverb at all.

A while back on another forum (with no other F50 users on there as far as I know) I asked whether or not changing the reverb tank would improve the sound of the amps reverb. I was asked whether or not the reverb circuit was a tube circuit...they said that tube reverb circuits are generally better sounding. I figured it was a tube circuit, being a Mesa and all, but I was surprised to find out it is NOT...the effects loop is tube buffered, but the reverb is not (perhaps to keep the cost of the amp down??).

So that makes me think that simply replacing the reverb tank will not make an appreciable difference in the sound of the reverb.

Also, the Lonestar reverb circuit IS a tube circuit, so that might explain, at least in part, why it's reverb circuit sounds better.

Gazz

01-05-2006, 07:29 AM

Thanks for the replies guys.

I agree with surfcaster, the reverb in my F50 is the weakest part of the sound IMO. I know that I am considering a G force, and I have a Boss SE50 which is pretty good. I think I have dimissed the G2 in the loop for the reasons Hal and Andy gave( impedance mismatch)

But its good to know all the options.

I had alook at theWeber Mass and the THD hotplate and thought I would stick to reducing the volume using the SE 50or G forrce if I get one, I am carrying too much gear about anyway and although the atenuaters are relatively small , its just becoming ridiculas to set up for a gig.

Sheesh I hark back to 30 years ago when you plugged your guitar straight into the amp and that was it !! hahaha.

hal9000

01-05-2006, 07:48 AM

Originally posted by Surfcaster
<snip>
Also, the Lonestar reverb circuit IS a tube circuit, so that might explain, at least in part, why it's reverb circuit sounds better. It's funny, but I've not really considered the contribution of the tube-buffered FX loop in the tone of the amp. With my Rivera R55, I can use the FX loop as an additional gain stage given the send and return level controls. Maybe some of the volume-in-the-loop mojo is due to the loop's circuit? Since the send level is the master, and the return level is based on the FX, it may be possible to overdrive the FX loop send tube to get a heavier overdrive. I'm sure that driving the FX tube into overdrive would require quite a bit of signal, and therefore a lot of loop attenuation, but it would be an interesting experiment nonetheless.

markmann

01-05-2006, 09:41 AM

Originally posted by Gazz

I had alook at theWeber Mass and the THD hotplate and thought I would stick to reducing the volume using the SE 50or G forrce if I get one, I am carrying too much gear about anyway and although the atenuaters are relatively small , its just becoming ridiculas to set up for a gig.

Sheesh I hark back to 30 years ago when you plugged your guitar straight into the amp and that was it !! hahaha. FYI, for gigs I use a volume control in the loop that is small enough to fit inside the back of my amp head. I only use my Hotplate at home where I need to get the volume real low.

Interesting that you mention harking back 30 years... back then I was already using pedals but they were so noisy that I could only chain a few together before the signal became too degraded. How spoiled we all are now to have a plethora of high quality devices at relatively low prices. Now I usually have at least a half dozen pedals on my board at any given time with almost unnoticable degradation. It cracks me up when people complain about microscopic tone loss... in the old days when using effects and cables that were available at that time tone loss was huge.

Gazz

01-05-2006, 09:49 AM

Hi Markman, what is the volume control that sits inside you amp head, what is it? if you dont mind me asking?

Yep the good old days! I remember also what we had to put up with. Before digital tuners we used to hold a tuning fork over the pick up and try to match the string to its vibrations. Acutally before I bought one I was in a band for nearly a year before we realized we were about 3 semitones above concert pitch. Yikes no wonder the vocals hurt !! hahahah

markmann

01-05-2006, 10:16 AM

Originally posted by Gazz
Hi Markman, what is the volume control that sits inside you amp head, what is it? if you dont mind me asking?

Yep the good old days! I remember also what we had to put up with. Before digital tuners we used to hold a tuning fork over the pick up and try to match the string to its vibrations. Acutally before I bought one I was in a band for nearly a year before we realized we were about 3 semitones above concert pitch. Yikes no wonder the vocals hurt !! hahahah The volume control is a home-made device that I made from a plastic project box from Radio Shack. The box measures approximately one inch high by two wide and three long. Inside is one volume pot with two cables attached just long enough to reach the loop input/outputs. The device is explained in more detail on page 5 of this thread. It was painless to make and cost me about $5 for parts. If you want to see it let me know and I'll snap a picure.

yeah, I tuned my guitar with a harmonica for years and we generally were a half tone low to make it easier to sing the high notes.

Gazz

01-05-2006, 11:04 AM

Hi Mark, yes please can you post a pic, and a pic in situ insode your amp. What are the specs of the pot, and how is it wired?

Dont it seem strange here we are buying £1000 amps and having to put a threpenny mod in it to make it sound good!!

Cheers

markmann

01-05-2006, 11:27 AM

Sure. I can tak a pic of the device but my amp isn't at home right now so I won't be able to show it installed. You'll get the idea immediately when you see it though. I'll snap a pic tonight.

I like it when the "cheap" fix does the trick :) The heart of the beast is what's important to me.

musicdog400

01-05-2006, 11:40 AM

Originally posted by Gazz

Dont it seem strange here we are buying £1000 amps and having to put a threpenny mod in it to make it sound good!!

Cheers

If it makes you feel better you can use a $250 pot (Weber Mass) like I did. :)

ccelaya

01-05-2006, 01:42 PM

so...
this is what happens when you put your F head upside down

:D

(let's pretend you remove the handle, and that I don't suck at mspaint)

http://www.geocities.com/punk_dude_ranch/moddedf.jpg

hal9000

01-05-2006, 02:11 PM

Well, I heard back from Michael Wolf and the tank for my F-100 is a 9BB3A1B, which is basically the biggest tank (9"), with the most springs (6) and the longest delay times (2.75 - 4 seconds). So, no dice on the changing the tank since it's already the best one that Accutronics makes. You F-50 guys might want to back me up with a look at your tank to make sure it's the same.

I don't really have a complaint with the reverb as I think it works well in the mix, but I've heard much lusher reverb especially from my Rivera R55-12 which is tube-driven. I mainly use the reverb on my G-Major now since it’s programmable per patch and I don’t really use much at that.

Gazz

01-06-2006, 02:01 AM

Mark & Hal. Had a look at page 5 , the wiring diagram for the loop attenuator. Umm this may sound stupid but, where do all the wires go. There seems to be 3 lugs on the pot, and 2 each for the input and out put that connect to the loop. I'm thinking I can cut the plugs off an old lead with long enough wire to reach inside the box and run to the loop sockets. Should the box be metal? or doesnt it matter.

Mark have you experienced any noise with this mod?

Cheers guys

markmann

01-06-2006, 05:51 AM

hal9000

01-06-2006, 06:50 AM

Originally posted by Gazz
Mark & Hal. Had a look at page 5 , the wiring diagram for the loop attenuator. Umm this may sound stupid but, where do all the wires go. There seems to be 3 lugs on the pot, and 2 each for the input and out put that connect to the loop. I'm thinking I can cut the plugs off an old lead with long enough wire to reach inside the box and run to the loop sockets. Should the box be metal? or doesnt it matter.

Mark have you experienced any noise with this mod?

Cheers guys Here’s a schematic that I made for you:

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y34/afraiddave/hal9000FXLoopAttenuator.png

Parts list from Mouser:
(2) Switchcraft L11 1/4” Jacks ($1.76) (http://www.mouser.com/index.cfm?handler=displayproduct&lstdispproductid=272615&e_categoryid=329&e_pcodeid=50202)
Xicon Carbon Film Potentiometer POT 50K ($7.68) (http://www.mouser.com/index.cfm?handler=displayproduct&lstdispproductid=247766&e_categoryid=319&e_pcodeid=03104)
Hammond 1411D Enclosure 3.2 X 2.2 X 1.6 in. ($5.20) (http://www.mouser.com/index.cfm?handler=displayproduct&lstdispproductid=385420&e_categoryid=69&e_pcodeid=54604)

Basically, all these parts are mounted to the box. The POT will have three terminals and the middle one is called the wiper (the right-most lead in the schematic). The other two terminals are symmetrical so just position the POT how it makes the most sense. The Jacks are pretty simple to understand. The longest lead that contacts the center pin of the ¼ cable is positive, and the short lead that’s connected to the Jack’s chassis is ground. For wire, I'd suggest 20-22 AWG which you can get cheap at a local hardware store.

You can also put the POT inside the box so it's more protected depending on how you'd like it to work. In the inside case, you'll need a different kind of POT so send me an email: neil@afraiddave.com and we can talk.

I hope this helps you. :)

hal9000

01-06-2006, 06:51 AM

Originally posted by markmann
Hey Gazz, I didn't use the diagram as hal9000 described, that was only an example. Mine is a bit simpler, just a plastic box with one 50k audio taper pot wired in standard method just like a guitar volume control. One cable in and one out... works like a charm and adds no noise.

I have a picture but I don't know how to add it to a post. Can you or someone tell me how? When I pick the IMG button it wants a url. I just want to upload from my HD. Mark, sign up for a free account at www.photobucket.com. You'll be able to upload pics and hotlink like you see me do all the time.

Guitarching

01-06-2006, 07:24 AM

Anybody or Andy can tell the settings on the soundclip - "you're in love" by Andy?

Thanks, tony

markmann

01-06-2006, 07:31 AM

Originally posted by hal9000
Mark, sign up for a free account at www.photobucket.com. You'll be able to upload pics and hotlink like you see me do all the time. Thanks. Ok you should be seeing a picture of the volume device:
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c144/markaland/volumecontrol.jpg
Like I said, it's about 1" x 2" x 3" (multiply by 25.4 for metric) and has velcro on the bottom. I attach it inside the head directly below the loop input/output and the cables are just long enough to reach.

I remove it when I use the Rocktron because the effect unit becomes the volume attenuator. At home I use a Hotplate.
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c144/markaland/F504.jpg

markmann

01-06-2006, 07:39 AM

Also.... I just realized that if you look close you can see my basic settings on the amp. FYI, no contour and brite not pulled out. As you can see I keep the gain quite low and I like a fairly brite tone.

hal9000

01-06-2006, 07:49 AM

Originally posted by markmann
Thanks. Ok you should be seeing a picture of the volume device:
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c144/markaland/volumecontrol.jpg
Like I said, it's about 1" x 2" x 3" (multiply by 25.4 for metric) and has velcro on the bottom. I attach it inside the head directly below the loop input/output and the cables are just long enough to reach. <snip>.Mark, nice job on the box and you bring up a good point about construction. It may be easier to construct the project using a 2-3 ft. lead, where the cable would be cut in half and each end would become the send/return lines. Of course, that limits the distance away from the FX Loop compared to using ¼” connectors, but it's less parts to worry about. Also, you'll need some strain relief on the cables to prevent them from getting pulled out and a few grommets to position them correctly in the mounting holes. Usually for strain relief I like to use an electrical mounting flange mounted to the interior of the box where the line is secured. They look like a rounded rectangle folded back on itself with a two screw holes. You just run the cable through the flange, and screw the flange down to the box.

hal9000

01-06-2006, 07:51 AM

Originally posted by markmann
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c144/markaland/F504.jpg Mark, that's a nice looking rack enclosure. I've not seen one like that before?

markmann

01-06-2006, 08:20 AM

Originally posted by hal9000
Mark, that's a nice looking rack enclosure. I've not seen one like that before? Thanks, it's another home-made item. It's just 1 x 10 pine with routered edges and covered with vinyl. Like the old saying goes: necessity is the mother of invention. My previous rig was all rack gear and very akward and heavy... never again. I couldn't find a compact rack for my effector so I made this one.

This is actually an old picture taken months ago. I rarely use the Rocktron with the F50 and I now have my old Pirannha preamp in that rack with the Intellifex and it's a self contained road unit.

Gazz

01-06-2006, 09:31 AM

Hal and Andy thank you so much for all the trouble you are going to.

I didnt realise that there were such helpful people about.

This may sound dumb but I have never made anything like this before, but I am going to give it a try.

Hal, when I look at the pot how do I know which lug is left and which is right, depending on how you hold it they change positions!

Is the centre always negative?

Thanks for the pics Mark, I can see exactly how it would work. Where do you velcro it?
Mark thats a really cool mini rack system you have there. I have never seen thos before, you ought to make them and sell them. I dont recall seeiing anything on the market other than the usual big semi or full flight racks.

Thanks again to both of you for all your help

markmann

01-06-2006, 09:47 AM

Originally posted by Gazz
Hal and Andy thank you so much for all the trouble you are going to.

I didnt realise that there were such helpful people about.

This may sound dumb but I have never made anything like this before, but I am going to give it a try.

Hal, when I look at the pot how do I know which lug is left and which is right, depending on how you hold it they change positions!

Is the centre always negative?

Thanks for the pics Mark, I can see exactly how it would work. Where do you velcro it?
Mark thats a really cool mini rack system you have there. I have never seen thos before, you ought to make them and sell them. I dont recall seeiing anything on the market other than the usual big semi or full flight racks.

Thanks again to both of you for all your help No prob, Gazz and thanks for the compliment on the rack. Someone should really make a nice small rack like this for effects, etc. I was surprised when I went on the hunt for one and came up empty.

I'll try to make a diagram of how to wire the volume attenuator that I can upload in a post. It's really very easy and cheap. Actually, if I can take a clear enough picture I'll take the back off and show what it looks like inside. I'll give it a try.

Dann'sTheMan

01-06-2006, 10:29 AM

Originally posted by Guitarching
Anybody or Andy can tell the settings on the soundclip - "you're in love" by Andy?

Thanks, tony

Hi Tony,

Great to have you posting in the Lounge - welcome my brother. :)

Regarding the settings, I've attached them to this post. The clip is a solo by another of my session heroes, the inimitable Mike Landau. I decided to use the tweed tone stack of the F-50's Lead channel for the solo part, and then I used the spankier Blackface tone stack from the Rhythm channel for some added texture and for the harmonised octave part in the middle. :)

I'm also running my MXR Dynacomp in front of the amp for some compression, and my G-Major in the loop for the chorus effect. Delay and Reverb were added at mixdown. :cool:

Big smiles,

Andy.

hal9000

01-06-2006, 11:14 AM

Originally posted by Gazz
Hal and Andy thank you so much for all the trouble you are going to.

I didnt realise that there were such helpful people about.

This may sound dumb but I have never made anything like this before, but I am going to give it a try.

Hal, when I look at the pot how do I know which lug is left and which is right, depending on how you hold it they change positions!

Is the centre always negative?

Thanks for the pics Mark, I can see exactly how it would work. Where do you velcro it?
Mark thats a really cool mini rack system you have there. I have never seen thos before, you ought to make them and sell them. I dont recall seeiing anything on the market other than the usual big semi or full flight racks.

Thanks again to both of you for all your help Here's a pin out:

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y34/afraiddave/hal9000PotPinout.jpg

Basically, the middle pin is called the wiper which is the output pin on the FX loop schematic above (look for the arrow). It doesn't matter which terminal (left or right) you make negative simply because pots are symmetrical. If you have an ohmmeter, you can verify that by connecting to the outside terminals, you'll read somewhere are around 50 kOhms as stated per the spec. However, if you connect the ohmmeter leads to an outer pin and the wiper, the resistance will change as you adjust the pot, which is basically how it works. It’s literally connecting more and more resistive material as you approach the maximum value of 50 kOhms.

Gazz

01-06-2006, 11:32 AM

Hi Hal thanks for more info

So, the centre lug(wiper) in the input( positive) and either of the outer are output( negative)?

The wires ( by cutting a short lead in two with a standard jack on either end) are the centre core is positive and the braided outer is negative- is that correct?

If so then I'll give it a go

Thanks again

Gazz

01-06-2006, 11:37 AM

Looking again at the schematic it seems to say that you only connect one of the positive wires to the centre lug and the others to the outer lugs. How can this work, I dont understand. Surely you need to connect both positives to the centre lug and both negatives to either of the outer lugs?

Am I being stupid?

hal9000

01-06-2006, 11:49 AM

Originally posted by Gazz
Looking again at the schematic it seems to say that you only connect one of the positive wires to the centre lug and the others to the outer lugs. How can this work, I dont understand. Surely you need to connect both positives to the centre lug and both negatives to either of the outer lugs?

Am I being stupid? No, the pot doesn't know anything about positive and negative. Choose one of the outer lugs as the input, then the output is taken from the wiper lug (center), and you ground the remaining lug. Essentially, this is a circuit where you're only letting a portion of the signal through based on the position of the wiper, which is also called attenuation.

Hopefully this layout wiring will clear it up a bit.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y34/afraiddave/hal9000FXLoopAttenuatorRevB.png

markmann

01-06-2006, 12:30 PM

Don't feel bad, Gazz, I can't remember how I wired it but I think it's the way Hal9000's excellent diagram shows. I refered to a guitar repair manual when I made mine.

The diagram above shows input jacks which then would mean you would use two patch cables to connect the box to your loop.

I used right angled jacks so that I could leave the box connected to the amp wthout the jacks protruding outside the back of the amp. Here's a side view of how the box looks installed:
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c144/markaland/attenuator.jpg
Notice how the whole thing is inside the head which means I can leave it there during transport.

Gazz

01-06-2006, 02:40 PM

Thanks guys, I think I've got it now

Will let you know how I get on. Off to Maplins tomorrow to get the parts.

Cheers

Gazz

01-07-2006, 12:48 PM

Well, £3.47 and 30 mins later its done. It looks just like Marks, and it works great.

No noise, no tonal loss at all, and it takes the volume donw to nil.

Only thing is it works backwards, the nob I mean. Anyway I can live that.

What a sound !

Thanks for all your help Hal and MArk and Dan's the Man

"sasquatch"

01-07-2006, 05:23 PM

does anyone know if it is possible to run 6V6s in the F50? will this destroy my amp or is it a safe mis-bias? anyone? bueller?

anyway, i am VERY intuiged about getting the clean channel to sound more tweed by this. it already breaks up with the clean 6L6, so i am thinking some SERIOUS breakup with 6V6. couple that with the fact the tonestack is fender (albeit blackface), and i think the clean with 6v6 could pull off the tweed thing.

i still love my F50. absolutely amazing amp. 10 years from now people will be scrounging around to try to find one and raving about them like the currently do the mark series (f50 smokes the mark 1; no experience with the others). i have more rare F50 narrow body (same size as an F30). i love the fact it is so small,but packs such a huge SWEET wallop. the only amp i have ever played that i like as much is a victoria 20112 (fender tweed deluxe clone).

oops...lost thought track. anyway, back to the 6v6 thing.....anyone? please respond or PM me.

thanks guys..... :cool:

Antti Loponen

01-08-2006, 01:58 PM

I just made up the perfect solution for my third channel problem (I want to use a clean tone, a slight distortion and a basic distortion with an F-30, but distortion without contour is too dark and too distorted). The solution is volume pedal, which I have in my POD XT Live infront of the F-30

I noticed that I use the slight distortion usually only for breaking down for verses from distorted parts. That way I can just pull back the volume pedal and get a slighter distortion that doesn't get dark. I can even set a minimum value for the pedal so it's distortion on the toe down position and overdriven on the heel down position.

Now, I have a problem if I want to go from clean to slight drive or vice versa. I have two old songs which would need this. Luckily, I could easily use the non-contour channel for those occasions and also those songs are being phased out of the set soon

:cool:

markmann

01-09-2006, 05:08 AM

hal9000

01-09-2006, 06:15 AM

hal9000

01-09-2006, 06:26 AM

Originally posted by doggage5050
does anyone know if it is possible to run 6V6s in the F50? will this destroy my amp or is it a safe mis-bias? anyone? bueller?

anyway, i am VERY intuiged about getting the clean channel to sound more tweed by this. it already breaks up with the clean 6L6, so i am thinking some SERIOUS breakup with 6V6. couple that with the fact the tonestack is fender (albeit blackface), and i think the clean with 6v6 could pull off the tweed thing.

i still love my F50. absolutely amazing amp. 10 years from now people will be scrounging around to try to find one and raving about them like the currently do the mark series (f50 smokes the mark 1; no experience with the others). i have more rare F50 narrow body (same size as an F30). i love the fact it is so small,but packs such a huge SWEET wallop. the only amp i have ever played that i like as much is a victoria 20112 (fender tweed deluxe clone).

oops...lost thought track. anyway, back to the 6v6 thing.....anyone? please respond or PM me.

thanks guys..... :cool: The problem is that 6V6s use a lower DC plate voltage than 6L6s so you can damage them quite easily if the DC supply is too high. However, there are some rugged 6V6's that will take the voltage levels of a 6L6, so I would call Mesa and ask for their recommendation. Of course, you could go brown sound with a variac, which will reduced the supply to the whole amp, but allow you to run the 6V6s, but again, I'd as Mesa for their $0.02.

Now, on the cheap, the OD channel does have a tweed tone stack, which might cure your thirst for those tones. So, on channel 2 turn the gain down to 8:30 or so, and crank the master for your required volume. I think you'll find that the F-50 will respond with a nice "woody" character to the midrange.

markmann

01-09-2006, 07:55 AM

Originally posted by Gazz
Only thing is it works backwards, the nob I mean. Anyway I can live that.
Just an FYI, mine is wired so that when you turn the knob clockwise the volume increases.

Dann'sTheMan

01-09-2006, 08:39 AM

Originally posted by Gazz
Well, £3.47 and 30 mins later its done. It looks just like Marks, and it works great.

No noise, no tonal loss at all, and it takes the volume donw to nil.

Only thing is it works backwards, the nob I mean. Anyway I can live that.

What a sound !

Thanks for all your help Hal and MArk and Dan's the Man

Glad you're sorted! :cool:

If you decide you can't live with the "backwards" knob, it's easy to fix.

You're simply using the "wrong" side of your pot. A "side" is simply the resistance between the wiper leg and one of the outside legs. If you imagine the wiper separates the pot into two sides that add up to 100%, when the wiper is at one end of its travel, then side A will be at say 0% and side B at 100%. As the wiper is moved, side A will grow to 100% whilst side B shrinks to 0%.

To swap to the other side of your pot, simply swap around the wire(s) going to the outside legs of your pot (and leave the wiper wire where it is), :)

Here's hal9000's diagram once more for reference:
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y34/afraiddave/hal9000FXLoopAttenuatorRevB.png

Big smiles,

Andy.

Surfcaster

01-09-2006, 09:57 AM

I played around with putting my GE-7 in the effects loop to use as an attenuator this weekend. It certainly works, that's the quietest I've ever been able to play the amp and still get a decent sound out of it. The GE-7 provides 15dB of boost or cut to the signal level, which certainly isn't too much...it would be interesting to try the volume pot thing...I might have to yet.

And just to second hal9000 on the 6V6 thing...I wouldn't try it without asking someone in the know. My little custom built amp can take either 6L6, EL34 or 6V6, but there is a low power switch for when using 6V6s. One time I forgot to change it to low power, and nothing bad happened, but I don't think I'll ever do that on purpose! I tried a EH 6V6 and wasn't all that impressed with the gainier sounds (was fine clean)...it was very crispy on the top end. But I was told by the amp maker to try a JJ 6V6, said it was a 'rounder, warmer' sounding tube, so I'll have to try that yet. I'd be more interested in seeing how Channel 1 of the F50 responds to the 6V6, since they were the stock tubes in the '65 Deluxe Reverbs which that channel is based on...but probably not interested enough to put any money into it!! :D

Stucazzo

01-09-2006, 08:44 PM

Hey everyone. I'm new here, but I've had my F-50 for a few months now. First off, congrats on having such a great thread. Perhaps, one of the most informative I have ever seen.

I'm here for two reasons: to get assistance from all of you and to hopefully pay it forward and be able to assist you as well.

Here is my dilemma: I have been trying to get my Boss GT-8 to work with my F-50 and I am at wits end. My big reason for having the GT-8 is because it enables me to have an insane amount of different effects at my fingertips (at my toes for that matter). Therefore, I have been trying to use the Four Cable Method (4CM), which will enable me to utilize the F-50's tones. Unfortunately, however, the two devices together sound like a runway at the airport. There is too much noise.

True, it has COSM, which is a nice option, but I have found what I wanted in the F-50. The GT-8 to me will serve the purpose of being a smorgasbord of effects.

Is anyone else here playing a GT-8 with an F-50? If so, have you experienced the same problem I am experiencing?

I've made up my mind that the GT-8 will go and the F-50 will stay if I can't get the two to work together.

Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

-Stu

bowen71

01-09-2006, 09:52 PM

Hello Stu,

I had the same problem with my Boss ME-50. I always used it out front of the amp until I got my Mesa. Then I wanted to use the distortion in the amp but it sounded really bad so I turned to this forum where a couple guys helped me out.

I have no idea what "the 4 cable method" is.
But what I found out on this forum is to use the ME-50 in the loop. That cured the crappy sound I was getting. I run the loop mix knob all the way up to 90%. Some of the effects sound different in the loop, like the built in wah is unusable, but the chorus and delay sound wonderful, and the noise suppresor on the ME-50 works great. And I no longer have silent tuning on the ME-50, since there is always a little signal bypassing the loop.

I don't know about the GT-8 but the ME-50 has a master level knob that works well as a loop attenuator. Or what I did was tape a pad under the heel of the volume pedal on the ME-50 so it will only tilt back a little bit. Now my normal rhythum volume is with the heel pushed down, and when I need a boost I push down the toe. I then got a Morley Wah/volume for out front of the amp so I still have a usable wah, and volume pedal.

panta1974

01-10-2006, 12:52 AM

Originally posted by Stucazzo
Hey everyone. I'm new here, but I've had my F-50 for a few months now. First off, congrats on having such a great thread. Perhaps, one of the most informative I have ever seen.

I'm here for two reasons: to get assistance from all of you and to hopefully pay it forward and be able to assist you as well.

Here is my dilemma: I have been trying to get my Boss GT-8 to work with my F-50 and I am at wits end. My big reason for having the GT-8 is because it enables me to have an insane amount of different effects at my fingertips (at my toes for that matter). Therefore, I have been trying to use the Four Cable Method (4CM), which will enable me to utilize the F-50's tones. Unfortunately, however, the two devices together sound like a runway at the airport. There is too much noise.

True, it has COSM, which is a nice option, but I have found what I wanted in the F-50. The GT-8 to me will serve the purpose of being a smorgasbord of effects.

Is anyone else here playing a GT-8 with an F-50? If so, have you experienced the same problem I am experiencing?

I've made up my mind that the GT-8 will go and the F-50 will stay if I can't get the two to work together.

Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

-Stu

Hi Stu

I use the GT-8 and the F-50 together using the 4-cable method. In fact, I use also the Mesa Boogie V-1 Botttle Overdrive in my rig.
After making sure you have done the connections correctly, there are 2 things to be taken care on the GT-8:
1. The LOOP (Send & Returns Levels and Normal Mix, usually) and
2. The FX CHAIN which is to me the greatest weapon of the GT-8: the point on the FX CHAIN where you position the LOOP (the F-50, in our case) is crucial, so be very careful on this one. The ability to change its position, depending the effects or the compressors and equalizers you use is truly great.
One thing also for the parallel loop of the F-50: since everybody uses fx devices etc it would be interesting to see if the serial modification for the fx loop works well. Has anybody done it yet? What were the results?
I am thinking to do it too, cause I think ceratin fx like eq or compression or qah work better in a serial loop.

Best Regards
Let me know how it works for you

"sasquatch"

01-10-2006, 02:43 AM

hmmmmm.... sounds like i need to contact mesa then. thanks guys for the input.

-adam:cool:

hal9000

01-10-2006, 07:09 AM

Originally posted by Stucazzo
<snip>Here is my dilemma: I have been trying to get my Boss GT-8 to work with my F-50 and I am at wits end. My big reason for having the GT-8 is because it enables me to have an insane amount of different effects at my fingertips (at my toes for that matter). Therefore, I have been trying to use the Four Cable Method (4CM), which will enable me to utilize the F-50's tones. Unfortunately, however, the two devices together sound like a runway at the airport. There is too much noise.</snip>

Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

-Stu Stu, welcome to the forum and the lounge! :)

First, IMO, the 4-cable method is a bit stifling to the dynamics of an amp and requires a lot of extra cabling, so I would recommend trying the GT-8 solely in the loop (Amp models and cab sims off of course). Normally, you only want to use distortion, wah, volume, and occasionally modulation out front. However, since the F-50 has great distortion already, volume can be set per patch plus controlled remotely, and almost all the remaining FX sound better in the loop so you can still get most of the function out of your GT-8, but preserve the fundamental dynamics that are so enthralling to play.

With your GT-8, you'll be able open up quite a bag of tricks since you can change the volume per patch. That means you can setup a patch to equalize the difference in volume from contour to regular OD. Also, you can make patches specifically for solo boost. Finally, the GT-8 only has one switching relay so you can only access a single channel change. If you want to make this a gigging rig I would suggest looking at the Axess Electronics CFX4 MIDI function switcher (http://www.axess-electronics.com/_p_cfx4.htm). The CFX4 will allow MIDI messages from your GT-8 to change channels on the F-50.

Antti Loponen

01-10-2006, 08:59 AM

I've found it better to use my POD XT Live infront of my F-30. All the effects I use sound better infront and I like to use wah and some distortion boosts. A post-distortion Phaser or Flanger is too clear. The only thing I'd occasionally like in the loop would be delay, but it's a small price to pay for not having to hassle with lots of cables :cool:

Stucazzo

01-10-2006, 09:26 AM

Thanks for all of the responses. Forgive me for being a technological moron, but what is the difference between plugging directly into the amp's loop and using the four cable method. I thought that without using the four cable method, I would not be able to use the F-50 preamp on the combo, and hence the amp's tones. Does plugging directly into the loop limit my effects placement (i.e., I won't be able to put a wah before distortion)? If that is the case, most of the effects I use are post distortion anyway. Am I making any sense?

If there really is an alternative to the four cable method, that would be great. The fewer cables, the less I'll feel like a marionette.

Also, I found that with the four cable method, I have to really lower the send and returns on the GT8, such that I think most of the signal is getting junked.

-Stu

Tommi Inkila

01-10-2006, 09:53 AM

Hello!

If you're interested to hear some new songs from our album they are webcasted on Rockpolis webradio tomorrow 11th and Friday 13th... the show will start at 4PM GMT.

I don't know which songs they're going to play and when and why :) ... if you have the interest and possibility check it out... the webcast is playing some other Finnish bands too. I don't have the exact site address yet, I'll update on that.

Later :rolleyes:

hal9000

01-10-2006, 09:54 AM

Originally posted by Stucazzo
Thanks for all of the responses. Forgive me for being a technological moron, but what is the difference between plugging directly into the amp's loop and using the four cable method. I thought that without using the four cable method, I would not be able to use the F-50 preamp on the combo, and hence the amp's tones. Does plugging directly into the loop limit my effects placement (i.e., I won't be able to put a wah before distortion)? If that is the case, most of the effects I use are post distortion anyway. Am I making any sense?

If there really is an alternative to the four cable method, that would be great. The fewer cables, the less I'll feel like a marionette.

Also, I found that with the four cable method, I have to really lower the send and returns on the GT8, such that I think most of the signal is getting junked.

-Stu If you imagine the F-50 as a three-part amplifier, you’ll have a better idea of how it works and where the FX loop is located. Here’s a quick synopsis:

Preamp: All of the controls on both channels are in the preamp before the FX Loop. This is where the majority of your tone generation happens including both clean and overdrive. Also, note that the master volume on each channel controls the FX send strength. The preamp consists of (5) tube stages or 2 ½ 12AX7 tubes, where each tube has (2) triodes.

FX Loop: The loop on the F-Series is located right after the reverb level / master volume circuit and contour filtering. The FX loop was designed to run at professional line level (+4 dBu) although some stomp boxes will work. Since the FX loop is post preamp effects placed here will not affect the core tone of the amp and all time-based effects only operate on the fully developed signal such that all repeats are copies of the original. The FX return sends the signal to the power amp and is returned by a single 12AX7 stage.

Power Amp: The power amp accepts the signal from the preamp and FX loop (combined by the FX Mix pot) and amplifies the power to be able to drive a speaker. This is where the phase inverter (12AX7 - both triodes) and 6L6 output tubes are located.

Now, hopefully you have a better understanding of how the amp works. The GT-8 can be used as an FX loop-only device where you no longer plug into the GT-8, but into the amp. The F-50’s FX send plugs into the GT-8’s input and the output is plugged into the F-50’s FX return.

So, in the configuration above you won’t want to use any distortion or wah sims, but you can use everything else. A lot of us here have a G-Major that we employ in the FX loop for time-based FX and so forth. The GT-8 will work the same way. If there comes a time that you need a wah, compressor or overdrive, you can add it out front as Dann’sTheMan does with his MXR comp and Vox Wah.

Dann'sTheMan

01-10-2006, 10:29 AM

Originally posted by Stucazzo
Thanks for all of the responses. Forgive me for being a technological moron, but what is the difference between plugging directly into the amp's loop and using the four cable method. I thought that without using the four cable method, I would not be able to use the F-50 preamp on the combo, and hence the amp's tones. Does plugging directly into the loop limit my effects placement (i.e., I won't be able to put a wah before distortion)? If that is the case, most of the effects I use are post distortion anyway. Am I making any sense?

If there really is an alternative to the four cable method, that would be great. The fewer cables, the less I'll feel like a marionette.

Also, I found that with the four cable method, I have to really lower the send and returns on the GT8, such that I think most of the signal is getting junked.

-Stu

Hi Stu,

and welcome to the F-series Lounge. I hope you have as much fun here at HCAF as I do. :)

Regarding your question about the technicalities of the four cable method: the thing to bear in mind it that a guitar amp rig topology looks like this:

Guitar -> Pre-amp -> Power-amp -> Speakers

There are two common places to insert FX:

Guitar -> FX1 -> Pre-amp -> FX2 -> Power-amp -> Speakers

FX1 are typically effects like overdrive, compression and wah, and are placed in front of the amp. FX2 are typically effects like Chorus, Delays and Reverb and are place in the amp's loop (between the Pre-amp and Power-amp).

There aren't any hard and fast rules to this, and many people choose to put all of their effects in one position or the other. Neverthless, a significant proportion of guitarists like to have some of their effects in the FX1 position AND some of their effects in the FX2 position.

With that in mind, a few manufacturers of Multi-FX units provide a means of running some of the unit's effects in the FX1 position, and some in the FX2 position. The multi-fx unit essentially gets its own loop, and some of the effects blocks are positioned before the loop and some after. It's called the "four cable method" because:
* 1 cable is used from guitar to multi-fx In;
* then there are the effects before the multi-fx unit's loop i.e. FX1;
* then cable 2 goes from the multi-fx unit's loop Send to the amp's Input i.e. Preamp;
* cable 3 goes from the amp's loop Send to the multi-fx unit's loop Return.
* next comes the effects after the multi-fx unit's loop i.e. FX2;
* then cable 4 goes from the multi-fx unit's output to the amp's loop Return.
* finally comes the Power-amp -> Speakers.

If you don't want to run the four cable method, simply run cable 3 to your GT-8 In (and turn off your GT-8's loop), and cable 4 as above. This will put all of the GT-8's effects in the FX2 position. I'd concentrate on getting this set-up working well and sounding good first of all - you'll likely have to turn off all of the COSM and overdrive blocks, but will focus on the modulation and time based effects. You'll probably notice that many of the GT-8's patches have been programmed to sound good in FX1 position, and you'll have to re-tweak them all to get them working well in the FX2 position.

Only then, once you have tweaked your rig for sounding good with the GT-8 in FX2 position would I suggest then experimenting with the four-cable method, and trying some additional effects in the FX1 position. The four cable method can sound good, but the F-series tones can be thoroughly trashed if effects in the loop (FX2) are not working well. Start with the FX in the loop, and you should gain a solid tonal foundation. :)

Big smiles,

Andy.

P.S. You could equally gain your foundation by setting up your GT-8 in the FX1 position. Indeed, some of the brothers prefer this approach. :cool:

Antti Loponen

01-10-2006, 12:16 PM

EDIT: I didn't notice the last page of replies :o

Complicated, huh? If you only need a wah before distortion, it's probably easier to buy a separate wah pedal and put the multi-effects in the loop

Stucazzo

01-10-2006, 08:14 PM

Thank you so much for the info and the warm welcome. I promise to contribute more to the forum if I ever leave the realm of "Dumbass" and actually have knowledge worth sharing. I haven't had time to play around with all of your suggestions yet - work is constantly getting in the way (maybe I'll quit and become a rock 'n' roll cliche).

You guys (and gals if any out there) are great. If you were all local, I'd buy a round for everyone.

I don't want to sound greedy - but I need some advice on one other thing. I want to get an attenuator. Any thoughts about the Hotplate vs. a Weber Mini Mass. Someone told me that a Mesa tech recommended the Weber.

I think the attenuator should be the first issue I clear up before getting crazy with the GT8. I need to open the amp up a little more to be completely familiar with it's tones (can't achieve tube saturation in my apartment complex). Any thoughts?

-Stu

markmann

01-11-2006, 05:27 AM

Originally posted by Stucazzo
I don't want to sound greedy - but I need some advice on one other thing. I want to get an attenuator. Any thoughts about the Hotplate vs. a Weber Mini Mass. Someone told me that a Mesa tech recommended the Weber.

I think the attenuator should be the first issue I clear up before getting crazy with the GT8. I need to open the amp up a little more to be completely familiar with it's tones (can't achieve tube saturation in my apartment complex). Any thoughts?

-Stu I've had several discussions about attenuators and there are many debates on attenuation in general if you get time to do a search on this site. I only have experience with the Hotplate which I can say works fine with my F50 and does what I need it to do. There are others who say the same about the Weber so what ever one you pick I'm sure you'll be happy. Keep in mind that attenuation is a subjective thing, in that what I mean is some people are disappointed when they first experience attenuation because part of the fun of playing loud is the FEEL of the SPL on your body and ears. You lose that when the volume is low. Also, higher levels of attenuation affect the interaction between amp and speakers so there is definitely something lost as you dial the level back. That said, attenuating is much different than simply turning the master volume down which turns the tone to crap. When you attenuate you retain most of the tonal character you get at high volume levels.

That's the best explanation I can give, hopefully it helps. Also, if you have not tried using a volume device in the loop definitely give that a try before shelling out the bucks for an attenuator.

Tommi Inkila

01-11-2006, 06:09 AM

Here's the link for the webcast:

http://rockpolis.ouka.fi:8000/rockpolis.ogg.m3u

Copy it to your ogg-compatible player ie. Winamp.

Sorry guys for not joining the discussion and for spamming this topic with SC stuff... :freak:

Gazz

01-11-2006, 07:29 AM

I agree with Mark. Try the inexpensive route first, you could spend a lot on a Weber or THD and not have to. Why dont you use the master volume on the GT8 to attenuate with. It should work

Surfcaster

01-11-2006, 08:22 AM

Stu,

I'll chime in here as someone who just sold a Weber Mini Mass and have no regrets at letting it go. I made some recordings on my digital 8-track with and without the Mini Mass, basically comparing the amp at basement levels with the attenuator and also by turning the master down and I decided there was no tonal advantage to using the Mini Mass (mind you, I never had the Master below 9 oclock...there is an obvious loss of tone below that). In fact, if you're using the Mini Mass for significant amounts of attenuation, you definitely sense a tonal difference...loss of highs specifically. And while the Fletcher-Munson study shows this is mainly because our ears don't hear those frequencies as well at lower volumes, it was very obvious to me to the point it was not worth it. Especially because small amounts of attenuation did not get me where I wanted to be...I had to use significant amounts and thus endure the tone loss. Now the HotPlate has some tone compensation switches built into it that may help alleviate that, but I've not tried one and even if it does, I don't know that it would help enough to be worth the extra cost.

The other thing to keep in mind with most modern amps is that the bulk of your gain comes from the pre-amp section. Cranking the power amp will certainly enhance the tone, but I've found that to be a fairly subtle effect...it wasn't like "Holy Crap! that sounds awesome!!", it was more like "Yeah, I think that sounds a little fatter and rounder"... Also, the F50 starts to noticeably compress when the master gets to around 1:30 or 2 oclock...and not in a good way IMHO, so there's no real point in pushing it beyond that. Besides, the pre-amp gain on the F50 sounds pretty darn good!

So here are my conclusions:

If you are hoping to use an attenuator for the main purpose of getting the amps volume down to basement/bedroom levels and aren't trying to push the power amp, go with the effects loop attenuation...I felt there was a little more control here with less tone loss, and the price is right!

If you are planning to do a lot of recording at higher volumes there would be more reason to get an attenuator...even though your ear might hear some tone loss while you're playing, your recording should sound fine.

If you just really gotta have that power amp working hard, then an attenuator would be a good idea...but I would strongly recommend trying to record some samples with the master set high and also with it set around 9:30-10:00 oclock and A/B'ing them against each other, playing them back at equal volumes, to really determine for yourself if it actually sounds enough better to be worth shelling out the cash for an attenuator.

Gazz

01-12-2006, 01:53 AM

Just thinking out loud here, but this volume pedal/pot in a box/ eq pedal or whatever you use in the effects loop idea.

Does it work for every tube amp that has a loop ? I'd be interested to hear other's views. If its effective why havnt the amp maufacturers made and sold it as an after market product, or even built it into the amp in the first place.

Because before this website I had never heard of it and I 've been playing over 35 years!

GCDEF

01-12-2006, 06:19 AM

hal9000

01-12-2006, 06:21 AM

Dann'sTheMan

01-12-2006, 06:38 AM

Originally posted by Gazz
Just thinking out loud here, but this volume pedal/pot in a box/ eq pedal or whatever you use in the effects loop idea.

Does it work for every tube amp that has a loop ? I'd be interested to hear other's views. If its effective why havnt the amp maufacturers made and sold it as an after market product, or even built it into the amp in the first place.

Because before this website I had never heard of it and I 've been playing over 35 years!

Hi Gaz,

It totally depends on the amp in question as to whether it produces any desirable results. For many amps it will work no better than the in-built Master Volume. On the other hand, you've now got first hand experience as to how well it works with the Mesa F-series. :cool:

How it works in the F-series is open to speculation, but it clearly has nothing to do with working the power tubes harder - indeed the output section is actually seeing a smaller signal. In the past, the tonal benefits of pushing the power tubes were often overlooked by far too many guitarists. Now, I feel that the pendulum has swung too far back in the other direction. Too many guitarists are convinced that the only way to make a tube amp sound good is to push the power amp, and completely overlook the tonal significance of the pre-amp design, and most importantly, the interaction between the two. Consequently, many guitarists would summarily dismiss the idea of attenuating in the loop, because of this misguided principle that if it is not working the power amp harder, then it can't have any tonal value. :eek:

My guess as to why it's working in the F-series (I've a Masters in EE) is that it is connected with the changes in the feedback structure as the amp's Master Volume is adjusted, but it could also be to do with the tube buffered FX loop being worked harder, or because all of the pre-amp tubes are being worked harder or it could simply be that the amp has a poor Master Volume design, and a simple pot in the loop is more effective. :p

Consequently this approach may not work with any other amp, or even other Mesas. I wouldn't expect there to be widespread demand for such a product - not least because of the many closed minds to this approach. However, if you have an amp that is particularly voiced around its Pre-amp design - as most Mesas are, then I'd certainly recommend giving this loop attenuation approach a try. :)

Big smiles,

Andy.

P.S. Here's a thread about a commercial loop attenuator. Most of the comments dismiss it because it is obviously not a power amp attenuator. Fewer comments about whether it actually works in practice. :p
http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=1133212

Surfcaster

01-12-2006, 08:20 AM

Gaz,

I'd never heard of it either, FWIW. But I think Andy's explanation is excellent.

As far as a 50W amp not being a bedroom amp, the fact is a 5W amp isn't even really a bedroom amp....at least not if you want to push the power amp. My new plexi-style amp runs about 6W with a 6V6 in it, and when both the preamp and the power amp are wide open, it's still too loud for my basement..at least for continuous play...if I tried it with the family home for more than a few minutes I'd hear about it!! (Though at least I can stay in the room with it...can't do that for long with the F50 wide open!!) While I can certainly play this amp at lower volumes than the F50, in order for it to sound good I end up running it almost as loud! (and still rely on the preamp stage for the majority of the gain)!

So then it comes down to doing whatever works, and keeping the master on the F50 at around 9:30 with a little in-loop attenuation via my EQ pedal sounds better to me than using the Mini Mass.

Gazz

01-12-2006, 09:53 AM

Yes Andy. had a look at that thread so I thought I'put in my 10 pence worth.

Anyway it works for me and for that I 'm greatful to you guys.

Hey surf, I have also tried an eq pedal in the loop and works just as well. For my live set up I'm using a Boss SE50 in the loop which has a master volume so no prob there.

However as a backup I'm using the homemade vol pot previoulsy discussed. Acutally I like having something that is not battery or wall wart powered that is quick to set up. Some gigs we only play 45 mins so I wouldnt do a full rig set up all the time. I like to have options and go with the flow at the time.

I also feel that way about which guitar I'm going to use.

the present stable is

1986 Jap Fender Strat with sonic ranger (white)
2003 Gibson SG deluxe (cherry)
1999 Gibson Les Paul Deluxe Goldtop
Jackson ( I've locked the trem down)( Blue)
Brian Moore Custom ( Amber)
Line 6Variax 300( red)

Washburn & Ibanez electro acoustics.

Before I go out I look up and down the parade and choose my lady(ies) for the night !!!!!! hahahaha.

markmann

01-12-2006, 11:08 AM

Originally posted by Gazz
However as a backup I'm using the homemade vol pot previoulsy discussed. Acutally I like having something that is not battery or wall wart powered that is quick to set up. Some gigs we only play 45 mins so I wouldnt do a full rig set up all the time. I like to have options and go with the flow at the time.
I run into that situation a lot and anything that helps me set up and break down quickly is a valuable asset.

Nice collection of guitars, Gaz.

Stucazzo

01-12-2006, 06:32 PM

Thanks again everyone. I'm gonna have time to try it all out this weekend. I'll report back and, hopefully, will have samples of my sound posted (sooner rather than later).

-Stu

klvanzu

01-13-2006, 04:15 AM

just a question - what EQ pedals are you guys running through the loop (anything relatively cheap worth using?). I don't have much knowledge on them and was wondering which ones work well.

hal9000

01-13-2006, 06:15 AM

Originally posted by klvanzu
just a question - what EQ pedals are you guys running through the loop (anything relatively cheap worth using?). I don't have much knowledge on them and was wondering which ones work well. I would not suggest using a DOD FX40B, because mine always makes the signal sound processed regardless of its on or off state. That has to do with the high input impedance (guitar) and low voltage level (instrument level) that the stomp box is supposed to run. Since the loop is low impedance and line level, the EQ hoses the signal. Not all EQ stomp boxes have a problem so hopefully you'll get some positive responses.

Personally, I use the EQ built into the G-Major which works great. If you're concerned about reducing volume in the loop, this is better accomplished with the attenuator I've already posted or a volume pedal.

Gazz

01-13-2006, 09:01 AM

I've tried my Yamaha GE7 and it works fine. Left all the eq faders in their neutral position and just lowered the gain slider.

Only thing is I like to use that eq in front of the pre amp, I like the sort of urgency it produces out of the amp. So unless I buy another I wouldnt use it for volume attenuation though

I suppose its another back up if something else fails.

I'm sure I read somewhere that some famous guitar player said 'every serious player should have an eq pedal in their rig'

Hmmm cant remeber who it was but just to make sure I'm serious enough I have one in mine !! hahahah.

bowen71

01-13-2006, 09:04 AM

I used to use a Boss GE-7 until I switched to a Mini Mass after the amp and the level knob on my ME-50 in the loop.

That didn't seem to change the sound at all other then volume.

Surfcaster

01-13-2006, 02:37 PM

I use a Boss GE-7 and have only recently started using it with the F50. It works fine...seems pretty transparent...at least in the loop. Would never use it in front of the amp...moving any of the sliders from the "0" position introduces some serious white-noise to the amp...whether boosting or cutting, regardless of frequency (or even if it's just the "level" slider). Don't know what's up with that, but I prefer to make my EQ adjustments after the preamp anyway, so in the loops suits me fine (though I generally don't adjust the EQ, just use it as a level control thus far.)

prsplayer333

01-14-2006, 02:52 PM

I just brought home my new F-30.

Cheers.

fancynapkin

01-14-2006, 03:14 PM

Would some JJ 6l6's help the amp at all??

Antti Loponen

01-15-2006, 06:29 AM

I got my first negative experience with my F-30...when I pulled out the footswitch cable from the back of the amp, the plug got disconnected from the jack and I couldn't reconnect it because the protectice metal screen was blocking access to the jack. I had to unscrew the screen to put it back. Not a big deal, but I don't want to do that during a gig!

Ripping Rudy

01-15-2006, 06:34 AM

Thought I'd throw in some F-series spam. I have a near-mint F-100 head for sale. Comes with footswitch, both cables (power and foot switch) and brand new JJ tubes.

$1000 Canadian Dollars!

Rock on

Dann'sTheMan

01-15-2006, 06:45 AM

Originally posted by prsplayer333
I just brought home my new F-30.

Cheers.

Hi prsplayer333,

and welcome to the brotherhood. :) What kind of music do you play? and tell me more about your PRS?

Big smiles,

Andy.

Dann'sTheMan

01-15-2006, 06:51 AM

Originally posted by Antti Loponen
I got my first negative experience with my F-30...when I pulled out the footswitch cable from the back of the amp, the plug got disconnected from the jack and I couldn't reconnect it because the protectice metal screen was blocking access to the jack. I had to unscrew the screen to put it back. Not a big deal, but I don't want to do that during a gig!

This has happened to me too - about half an hour before starting a gig. :eek: Luckily, I had the tools with me to remove the protective grill and reconnect the footswitch cable, and although it was stress that I didn't need, I got it done in time.

Our American brothers don't have this problem, as their protection is a simple bar, rather than a full grill, so they have relatively easy access to the footswitch connector. Grills are used in Europe in order to comply with CE regulation, and thus prevent burns. There's nothing to stopp you removing the grill once you've taken the amp home though! :p

Big smiles,

Andy.

fancynapkin

01-15-2006, 07:31 AM

Originally posted by fancynapkin
Would some JJ 6l6's help the amp at all??

???

Dann'sTheMan

01-15-2006, 07:53 AM

Originally posted by fancynapkin

???

I've no experience of using JJs in the power section of my F-50. I have JJ ECC83S in V1 and V2, and TAD 6L6WGC-STR in my power section. They've certainly made a difference, but the Mesa standard tubes sound excellent imho. I suspect experimentation is the only way to narrow what is the best combination for you, :)

Big smiles,

Andy.

fancynapkin

01-15-2006, 08:03 AM

Originally posted by Dann'sTheMan

I've no experience of using JJs in the power section of my F-50. I have JJ ECC83S in V1 and V2, and TAD 6L6WGC-STR in my power section. They've certainly made a difference, but the Mesa standard tubes sound excellent imho. I suspect experimentation is the only way to narrow what is the best combination for you, :)

Big smiles,

Andy.

So I guess I could stick with the stocks and be fine?

Dann'sTheMan

01-15-2006, 08:27 AM

Originally posted by fancynapkin

So I guess I could stick with the stocks and be fine?

Absolutely. I fell in love with my F-50 thanks to its stock tubes. :)

Experiment if you feel like a change, but it's not "necessary". Furthermore, as long as you buy replacement tubes from other companies that are within Mesa's specs, then it won't cost you anything to experiment (unlike the people that have to pay to get their amps rebiased). :cool:

Big smiles,

Andy.

Stucazzo

01-15-2006, 08:37 AM

Hey everyone. Okay, I had the opportunity to run the F-50 and GT8 yesterday using all of your suggestions. I just have the GT8 running through the loop of the amp and I plug my guitar directly into the amp as was suggested to me. Sounds great.

Many of you also suggested that I try the volume pedal in the fx loop before investing in an attenuator. GT8 has a volume pedal, which I am trying to work off of. Having the volume pedal in the loop doesn't completely lower the sound when my heel is all the way down. Is this because in order to lower the sound to completely off, the pedal would have to be out front and not in the loop?

The Gt8 has a programmable effects chain. For instance, what if I had an equalizer, noise suppressor, chorus, and volume pedal running in the chain. Should the volume pedal come at the beggining of this chain or at the end?

-Stu

"sasquatch"

01-15-2006, 09:15 AM

Originally posted by Stucazzo
Hey everyone. Okay, I had the opportunity to run the F-50 and GT8 yesterday using all of your suggestions. I just have the GT8 running through the loop of the amp and I plug my guitar directly into the amp as was suggested to me. Sounds great.

Many of you also suggested that I try the volume pedal in the fx loop before investing in an attenuator. GT8 has a volume pedal, which I am trying to work off of. Having the volume pedal in the loop doesn't completely lower the sound when my heel is all the way down. Is this because in order to lower the sound to completely off, the pedal would have to be out front and not in the loop?

The Gt8 has a programmable effects chain. For instance, what if I had an equalizer, noise suppressor, chorus, and volume pedal running in the chain. Should the volume pedal come at the beggining of this chain or at the end?

-Stu

the end will affect the volume the most, i.e., have the most dramiatic increase/decrease.

i keep my effects simple and just use my PODxt Live. I have used it the power in section as the pre-amp; can really get close to ch2 non contour w/the cali crunch amp (its actually very scary how close...lol...). I have thought and thought and thought (about my setup) and the more i did the more complicated my ideas were. now, i just use PODxt Live in front of the amp for FX only. I mean, some things sounds more hi-fi in the loop ( i spent WAY too much time thinking about this and changing my setup and thus becoming more complicated), but some of my favorite tones of all time have come from Hendrix, Trower, and Pearl Jam, and these guys tend to use more vintage gear w/out effects loops, like old Plexis and old Tweed Fenders and their effects sound great. as a result, my "rig" is guitar -> podXT live -> F50. its simple, sounds great, and allows me to concentrate on playing, rather than setup. of course, to each his own. you need to find your own thing. eventually, i would like to just go guitar-> amp. :D

simply my standpoint ,
:cool:
-adam

Dann'sTheMan

01-15-2006, 10:18 AM

Hi Stu,

Great to hear that you're making good progress with your GT-8. :thu:

Regarding where the volume pedal block should be placed in the chain, it's completely up to you. The two most popular places are at the end of the chain - where it governs the volume level of what comes out of the speaker. I personally prefer it at the beginning of the chain - at least before the delay block. In this position, it governs the signal that goes into the delay block, but NOT the delayed output. This allows signals to be "spilled over". What this means is that I can play the final notes in a song, turn the volume pedal down, but the delay sounds for those final notes will continue to decay naturally. :cool:

Again, experiment and see, there are no fast rules, :)

Big smiles,

Andy.

Stucazzo

01-15-2006, 07:13 PM

Thanks for the response Adam and Andy. But, do you know why the foot pedal isn't killing the volume completely. I have my F-50 at about 9:30 and the Level/Volume knob on the GT8 at about 70% max output. With my heel all the way down, there is still a good amount of volume. In fact, with my heel all the way down, the volume only reaches bedroom level instead of being completely off.

Also, I am under the impression that the level knob on the back of the GT8 shouldn't be turned all the way up to Max. So, I keep it at 70%. Is this a misconception on my part?

-Stu

Dann'sTheMan

01-16-2006, 01:55 AM

Originally posted by Stucazzo
Thanks for the response Adam and Andy. But, do you know why the foot pedal isn't killing the volume completely. I have my F-50 at about 9:30 and the Level/Volume knob on the GT8 at about 70% max output. With my heel all the way down, there is still a good amount of volume. In fact, with my heel all the way down, the volume only reaches bedroom level instead of being completely off.

Also, I am under the impression that the level knob on the back of the GT8 shouldn't be turned all the way up to Max. So, I keep it at 70%. Is this a misconception on my part?

-Stu

Hi Stu,

The reason is because the F-50 never lets 100% of the signal go to the GT-8. It always retains at least 10% depending on where the Mix knob on the back of the amp is set (10-90%).

I have mine set to 90%, i.e. the amp retains 10% of the signal, and although I can still slightly hear the amp at the heel down position, it's not loud enough to be a distraction for me. Some owners go further, and modify their Mix knob so that it always at 100% i.e. now behaving as a serial loop.

Regarding the level knob on the back of your GT8, as long as it is not causing any audible distortion because it has been set too high, then just set it where you desire. It will likely work well as an additional "volume control in the loop" (as discussed recently), allowing you to crank the amp's master volume well above 9 o'clock, and then reduce the volume at your GT-8. Regarding the "best" place to set it, sound men like to set analogue controls at 70% because it gives them a nice strong signal, but room to boost if required. Digital controls on the other hand are best set to 100% to maximise dynamic range. In practise however, with your F-50 rig, you can set your GT-8's level knob wherever you like - analogue controls will sound good from 0 ~100 %, whereas digital control, with the resolution of modern converters, will also still sound good from 1 ~ 100 %. You don't have to stick to 70%. :)

Big smiles,

Andy.

Antti Loponen

01-16-2006, 03:05 AM

Originally posted by doggage5050
my "rig" is guitar -> podXT live -> F50.
Same here, though I play a F-30. The XT Live is just like a virtual programmable pedal board, but getting all the pedals that I use from it would take more space and cost much. And I wouldn't have any programmability. Or the freedom to take any new effect for a new song without having to buy a new toy for it.

Right now I use gate, tuner, volume pedal, autoswell, wah, clean boost, eq/boost, phaser, tremolo, reverb and delay. That would take a lot of pedals to buy on a board.

I also have a neat backup system. In case something would happen to the F-30, I could just plug in the XT (I have "backup" patches with amp modeling there)

Gazz

01-16-2006, 03:26 AM

I know where your coming from Antii.

What I have learnt over the years is to use a combination of pre programmed sounds and analogue sounds.

Over the last 20 years I have used most of the programmable effects floor processors and rack set ups. The one I tended to favour was the old Korg A4, now about 13 or 14 years out of date but still sounds good.

Anyway I found I would set up say about 9 different sounds. One clean, one clean with chorus and compression. One cleanish crunch, one lead dry, one lead with a single delay etc etc etc.

Then as there were more patch slots available I used to prorgram one or two patches per song, so I prob had about 25 patches( some were used more than one song).

But what I found I was always tweaking here and there before during and inbetween gigs, changing things trying to improve, I ended up listening to the 'sounds' not the notes !
It was never quite right because every room/hall/venue had different dynamics.

So now I use a couple of delays and a general reverb sound in the loop of my F50 using a Boss SE50, a tube screamer and a eq pedal , and a cry baby in the front end and thats it.

I get more pleasure making the guitar work under my fingers by squeezing the notes, playing with the guitar's volume pot and varying the pick angle atack and direction. I feel its me making the sounds rather than a layered chorus, flangey, rototvibe type noise or whatever. I 'm not saying there isnt a place for sounds/noises in some songs, but theres no tmuchroom left for expression if things get too effects based.

Look at someone like Jeff Beck. He gets all his sounds/noises from playing with his fingers, no pick at all. He's the master at it, so much variation you just dont know whats gonna come out next.

I'm noy saying I'm in his league but I can connect with the vibe. For me anyway playing live and going with the feeling at that exact time is where its at for me.

Its good to talk !!

andershoeg

01-16-2006, 09:26 AM

Hi everybody! Just wanted to tell you, that my bands new demo is available at this place!
Our own website does not currently contain the new songs, therefor a link to another place.
All guitars is recorded using my beloved Mesa Boogie F-30 combo, usong a sm57 in front, and into my Motu 828mkII and to Logic Pro7 where it's mixed.
Hope you like it. Wanted to let you hear a little of what the F-30 can do
Push the red buttons beside the album-art containing black and red colors!

B.R. Anders

andershoeg

01-16-2006, 11:30 AM

aaaarrrhhhhggg! no working link:freak: try again: HERE! (www.frangoheep.soundvenue.com)

Tommi Inkila

01-16-2006, 02:45 PM

Sounds really good man!

The tones were about spot on as far as I can quickly tell.

The mastering was quite strange though. If it's not that website players fault the songs were limited to -6dB's ... so there's lots of useable headroom, or pure volume (then it would be louder than our "progmetal" album
:D )

andershoeg

01-16-2006, 03:36 PM

Thanks Tommy! Yes, there are some strange thing going on in the mastering. Maybe the player, don't know, but when I mastered it, i really tried to push it to the max. Thats why it sounds so dirty. Don't really like the mastering, but hell, we had to get it done, so we can get out an play some gigs :)
But I can hear the website player do "things" to the songs. In the download section it sounds a little better, I think.
About the amp: it sounds pretty much like the amp itself; there was not a lot of processing done to it, i cut a little in the 500 hz are, boosted a little top and bottom. But only a little, to make it fit a little better.
B.R. Anders

Dann'sTheMan

01-17-2006, 07:45 AM

Originally posted by andershoeg
Hi everybody! Just wanted to tell you, that my bands new demo is available at this place!
Our own website does not currently contain the new songs, therefor a link to another place.
All guitars is recorded using my beloved Mesa Boogie F-30 combo, usong a sm57 in front, and into my Motu 828mkII and to Logic Pro7 where it's mixed.
Hope you like it. Wanted to let you hear a little of what the F-30 can do
Push the red buttons beside the album-art containing black and red colors!

B.R. Anders

Anders,

LOVE IT! Simply awesome song writing, amp tones and guitar playing. Your F-30 combo recorded beautifully - sheer class. One of the things that I love about the F-30 is that American meets British voicing. It is a very special and unique voicing, and it works fantastically for your band's music. :thu:

And what a band! All of the musicians are inventive and the music doesn't get predictable for a second. Your vocalist is seriously talented, and showed great range. I am consistently impressed by the musicality of my Scandinavian brothers! Stunning work - where can I buy a copy! :cool:

Big smiles,

Andy.

Surfcaster

01-17-2006, 09:22 AM

+1...you got some great tones recorded there!

andershoeg

01-17-2006, 09:55 AM

Hi Andy! Thanks ALOT for your kind words!! You are right about the voicing; exactly why I love that amp so much; a combination of the tighter, american sound, but the EL-84's gives the sound a touch of british, cranked and dirty. The funny thing is, in our rehearsalroom, I play through my single rectifier, and it IS another sound, with more headroom. BUT I can make it sound really close to the recordings on our demo,so it's a great combination of sounds I have got. So there is no doubt, that my F-30 is for recording, while my recto is for live gigging!
Again thank you very much for your words! I will tell the other guys; they will probably like your words of choice

About a copy; you can download our songs in the downloadsection. OR you can send us a "return"-envelope (thats the name of it...?) with your adress on it, and I will send you a copy right away!

Another thing: After our first demo, you wrote a lot of nice words in our guestbook. But after a while we got a lot of spammails, and many of them were located under your post. We had to remove your post, and I'm sorry about that, cause it was some fine lines you wrote! Hope you will write in our guestbook again! And sorry for deleting your first post!

And Surfcaster: thank you too for the kind words! Yes, the F-30 really showed to be a great recording-amp! Probably also a good live amp, but haven't got enough headroom for our kind of music.

B.R. Anders

Stucazzo

01-17-2006, 09:16 PM

Hi Andy,

Thanks for the explanation regarding the volume pedal and the level knob on the effects unit. I am happy once again. For a while there, I was really annoyed with the way my rig was working out, but this forum has breathed new life into me. This is the first time in a long time that I'm liking the sounds I am getting.

-Stu

geek_usa

01-18-2006, 07:13 AM

Okie dokie....

I have a DC-3, and it sounds great at low volumes. It is missing some top end sizzle that I'd like, but for the most part it is nice.

However, when you turn it up past 2, it kicks in these unbelieveably harsh mids and you can't make them go away.

My question is, if I were to switch from the DC-3 to the F-50, does the F-50 sound GOOD cranked? I'm talking about the combo here, not the head.

I need something that will sound good both at low volumes and cranked without sounding harsh or brittle.

thanks guys!

hal9000

01-18-2006, 07:31 AM

Originally posted by geek_usa
Okie dokie....

I have a DC-3, and it sounds great at low volumes. It is missing some top end sizzle that I'd like, but for the most part it is nice.

However, when you turn it up past 2, it kicks in these unbelieveably harsh mids and you can't make them go away.

My question is, if I were to switch from the DC-3 to the F-50, does the F-50 sound GOOD cranked? I'm talking about the combo here, not the head.

I need something that will sound good both at low volumes and cranked without sounding harsh or brittle.

thanks guys! Well, IMO, all of the F-series sound great cranked, and you can get a nice smooth overdrive at almost any volume. There will be a difference in the DC-3 and F-50 since they have different output tubes, so maybe you just don't like the tone of an EL-84? Anyway, the 6L6 output stage on the F-50 is going to have more lows, low mids and highs, with less upper mids like the EL-84 DC-3. Try an F-50 out and take a look at my recommended settings (sig) for an idea of where to start with the controls.

Tommi Inkila

01-18-2006, 12:42 PM

Originally posted by andershoeg
Thanks Tommy! Yes, there are some strange thing going on in the mastering. Maybe the player, don't know, but when I mastered it, i really tried to push it to the max. Thats why it sounds so dirty. Don't really like the mastering, but hell, we had to get it done, so we can get out an play some gigs :)
But I can hear the website player do "things" to the songs. In the download section it sounds a little better, I think.
About the amp: it sounds pretty much like the amp itself; there was not a lot of processing done to it, i cut a little in the 500 hz are, boosted a little top and bottom. But only a little, to make it fit a little better.
B.R. Anders
If you would like I could try to master one of your songs... if you can send the wav-file or very high quality mp3 would do also. :rolleyes:

andershoeg

01-18-2006, 01:10 PM

Hi Tommi! That's a very fine offer! But I already have 500 cd-copies of our demo lying next to me;)
But thank you for the offer!!
Nevertheless, on the cd's it sounds better than on the web. So I guess the mp3 quality has something to do with it, although it still sounds a little too dirty on the cd's!
I mastered in waveburner. maybe there is some kind of "standard -6db"-thing going on? I'll have to check it out!:)
Thanks again!
B.R. andershoeg

Tommi Inkila

01-19-2006, 01:34 AM

Originally posted by andershoeg
Hi Tommi! That's a very fine offer! But I already have 500 cd-copies of our demo lying next to me;)
But thank you for the offer!!
Nevertheless, on the cd's it sounds better than on the web. So I guess the mp3 quality has something to do with it, although it still sounds a little too dirty on the cd's!
I mastered in waveburner. maybe there is some kind of "standard -6db"-thing going on? I'll have to check it out!:)
Thanks again!
B.R. andershoeg
No prob!

It seems that the limiter may have been set to -6dB's which means all the peaks are cut to -6dB's as where as on nowadays cds theyre hitting everything between -1dB's to 0dB's or even over all the time.

Antti Loponen

01-19-2006, 01:55 AM

It's good to set your limiter to -0.3dB, though you see new CD's peak all the time.

Tommi Inkila

01-19-2006, 10:15 AM

Originally posted by Antti Loponen
It's good to set your limiter to -0.3dB, though you see new CD's peak all the time.
Yep, that's right. The reason for this recommendation is that older cd-players (80's I guess) don't understand anything higher than that. Because new cd-players don't count that as an error masters are pushed higher.

andershoeg

01-19-2006, 12:07 PM

Hi guys! You are both right about all that with the good things about mastering at -0.3 db and so on. I checked in waveburner. The mastering is done at -0.1 on the limiter. So that cannot be the problem. May be something with the mediaplayer, or the conversion of the wav's to mp3's. It is not me who has done the conversion, or putted the songs on our site, so it is possible that the guy who did this has converted them with some kind of "auto-minus-6-db"-thingy :) Gotta talk to him! But not today.....it's my birthday....turning 31......ol' bastard :p

Take care
Anders

Antti Loponen

01-20-2006, 04:28 AM

Were there even not any peaks past -6dB?

prsplayer333

01-22-2006, 08:14 PM

Originally posted by Dann'sTheMan

Hi prsplayer333,

and welcome to the brotherhood. :) What kind of music do you play? and tell me more about your PRS?

Big smiles,

Andy.

The music I play is the music of my favorite bands. Clutch, Helmet, Tool, Quicksand, Black Sabbath, 311, QOTSA, ...those are the biggies. Recently, I've been into Lamb of God and Mastodon. But those are a little above my playing skills.

As far as PRS's go, I have a Hollowbody I and a Standard 24. The Standard 24 is the most comfortable and most versatile guitar I've ever played. After a bit of time with my f-30 I've realized that that I can make that guitar cop almost all the sounds I look for. It won't ever sound like a Strat but that's not the sound I'm looking for. I've had one... and sold it. The most surprising thing, and also the most relieving, is listening to the hollowbody through the amp. Much to my dismay over the years I was about to write this one off as a dud. It just never sounded right. It always sounded dull and lifeless. Well, I'm sure it's not just the f-30, a quality amp of any name would have probably let it shine, but now I see the beauty and character of this guitar. That sets my mind to rest because it was a gift to myself after learning I was going to be a dad for the first time. When I learned it was going to be a girl I scraped up the cash and bought the most beautiful guitar I found in hopes that some day I could give it to her as a present.

I'm a hobbyist/bedroom player. I'm not bad but at the same time I'm not good. I bought the F-30 biased mostly on this thread and I'm not disappointed in the least. Actually, I'm thrilled. Because I'm a basement player, my background consists of a variety of modeling amps. Line 6 (a couple of 'em), H&K Zenamp, all good for what they are and I give them that... good for what they are. And I know I will buy another in the future.

Nonetheless, here I am. This F series is so cool and sounds so great I can't tell you guys how happy I am. The difference between solid state and tube is so pronounced. I find myself playing so sloppy. I know that's a general statement but it's true. It will, and has, made me a better player. The most impressive thing about the amp, to me, is that of all the diverse styles and bands that I like, I can find settings that work. Even better than that, with my standard 24, on one setting I find myself just using the guitar to change up my tone. Too cool.

Here's the question I have for everyone. One pleasant surprise on the 30 has been the headphone jack. One thing that I thought was so cool about my pod xt was that I could sync it up with iTunes and rock out to my heart's delight through headphones. Does anyone know how I can do that thought itunes, through the headphone jack? Basically, syncing up itunes with the headphone output in the amp?

Cheers,

Josh

Dann'sTheMan

01-23-2006, 05:17 AM

Originally posted by prsplayer333

<snip/>
Here's the question I have for everyone. One pleasant surprise on the 30 has been the headphone jack. One thing that I thought was so cool about my pod xt was that I could sync it up with iTunes and rock out to my heart's delight through headphones. Does anyone know how I can do that thought itunes, through the headphone jack? Basically, syncing up itunes with the headphone output in the amp?

Cheers,

Josh

Hi Josh,

Thanks for insight - I thinks it's awesome that you bought that PRS as an heirloom. I suspect your daughter will treasure it. I've been teaching my five year old daughter for a year now, and her sister is about to turn four and get her own new guitar together with lessons from Daddy. :o

Regarding your question about connecting your F-30 to your computer, this is how I would do it with a PC:
* Turn on the Speaker Mute on the amp for silent jamming.
* Run a cable from the amp's Recording Out to the PC's "Line In" (might need a 1/4" to 1/8" adaptor to connect to the PC's Line In socket)
* Use Windows' "Master Volume" dialog (double click on Speaker icon in the System Tray) to mix and balance the sounds from iTunes, with the Line In volume.
* Rock on. :cool:

If I were feeling adventurous, I might additionally
* use music creation and editing software to route the F-30 sounds through a Speaker Emulation Plug In, in order to get even more authentic amp tones. :)

Big smiles,

Andy.

Surfcaster

01-24-2006, 07:58 AM

On the headphone jack/line out issue, that signal needs some serious EQing IMHO. I would strongly suggest running it through some sort of speaker simulation as Andy suggests. I run mine through a Tech 21 TRI OD just using the speaker sim function on that pedal, but I also run through a Boss GE-7. That yields a very useable direct tone (check out my sample in the first post under the Metal category...I'm not really a metal player, but don't have any other direct samples up at this time). While this makes silent recording possible, I still feel I get better tones mic'ing, so I don't do a lot of recording like that.

But it does allow me to run the signal into my digital 8-track and either play through the computer speakers/subwoofer I've got hooked up to it (and sounds surprisinly good for what it is), or headphones...either one is late-night family friendly.

No reason it couldn't be run into a computer to sync up with an mp3 player...and if you can find the kind of software that Andy is talking about, you should be able to acheive the same thing I do with the TRI OD and GE-7.

ashjn

01-24-2006, 08:25 PM

Just introducing myself:
New to the forum, but not new to Mesa. Been rocking the F-100 head for over a year now and I love it!

Dann'sTheMan

01-25-2006, 06:10 AM

Originally posted by ashjn
Just introducing myself:
New to the forum, but not new to Mesa. Been rocking the F-100 head for over a year now and I love it!

Hi ashjn,

Thanks for signing into the Lounge and welcome to our F-series brotherhood. Tell us more about how you are using your F-100. :)

Big smiles,

Andy.

ashjn

01-25-2006, 08:11 AM

I am running a Les Paul studio into it, no effects. I then run it into either 1 or 2 Mesa 2x12 3/4 Back Cabinets, depending on the size of the place we are playing. I am playing in a pop/modern rock band. We just recently recorded and are starting to get the songs online at www.myspace.com/bekken You can hear my F-100 there...

markmann

01-26-2006, 05:43 AM

ashjn, kudo's on yet another fine f-50 laden recording!!! Sounds great man, I love that thick tone. The songs are well written and the singer has some great pipes. I wasn't able to play Mess Me Up on My Space but I could on your band's website. The sound quality seems better on your website as well. Can you share some of your settings? Can't say I've heard the pulsating tone from my f50 like you get at the end of Mess Me Up.

Great job.

prsplayer333

01-26-2006, 06:24 AM

Originally posted by Dann'sTheMan

Hi Josh,

Thanks for insight - I thinks it's awesome that you bought that PRS as an heirloom. I suspect your daughter will treasure it. I've been teaching my five year old daughter for a year now, and her sister is about to turn four and get her own new guitar together with lessons from Daddy. :o

Regarding your question about connecting your F-30 to your computer, this is how I would do it with a PC:
* Turn on the Speaker Mute on the amp for silent jamming.
* Run a cable from the amp's Recording Out to the PC's "Line In" (might need a 1/4" to 1/8" adaptor to connect to the PC's Line In socket)
* Use Windows' "Master Volume" dialog (double click on Speaker icon in the System Tray) to mix and balance the sounds from iTunes, with the Line In volume.
* Rock on. :cool:

If I were feeling adventurous, I might additionally
* use music creation and editing software to route the F-30 sounds through a Speaker Emulation Plug In, in order to get even more authentic amp tones. :)

Big smiles,

Andy.

Hi guys. In regard to the headphones issue I think it may help if I explain what I have to work with. I have a Mac Powerbook with iTunes and I also have a Pod XT. Can I run a cable from the Record/Phones jack in the back of the F-30 into the Pod and use a cab module with no amp selected? After that, will I just be able to plug my headphones into the pod and play along with MP3’s like I Was able to do taking the guitar straight into the Pod? If what I’m talking about is possible can anyone walk me through the steps to going into the pod and selecting an speaker sim without having an amp selected? The pod is good for what it is but for me there is just too much. I’m “plug and play” and that’s why I’m really diggin’ the new amp. I’m just looking for ways to get more time with it when the rest of the house needs quiet.

One thing I feel the need to mention is that with just my headphones plugged into the back of the amp I’m getting a great sound. It may have a lot to do with the headphones though… they’re very top notch.

Surfcaster

01-26-2006, 07:40 AM

Originally posted by prsplayer333

Hi guys. In regard to the headphones issue I think it may help if I explain what I have to work with. I have a Mac Powerbook with iTunes and I also have a Pod XT. Can I run a cable from the Record/Phones jack in the back of the F-30 into the Pod and use a cab module with no amp selected? After that, will I just be able to plug my headphones into the pod and play along with MP3’s like I Was able to do taking the guitar straight into the Pod? If what I’m talking about is possible can anyone walk me through the steps to going into the pod and selecting an speaker sim without having an amp selected? The pod is good for what it is but for me there is just too much. I’m “plug and play” and that’s why I’m really diggin’ the new amp. I’m just looking for ways to get more time with it when the rest of the house needs quiet.

One thing I feel the need to mention is that with just my headphones plugged into the back of the amp I’m getting a great sound. It may have a lot to do with the headphones though… they’re very top notch.

Hey, if you like what you're hearing with the headphones plugged striaght into the amp, then don't worry about the speaker sim! Just go with it! :thu:

As far as using the pod cabinet modules w/o using an amp model, some others will hopefully chime in on that as I don't own one. But I'm guessing it's possible...I think Antti Loponen has a clip in the first post recorded like that. Anyway, I'm interested in the answer to that, too. If that can be done it might up my interest in a POD XT.

ashjn

01-26-2006, 08:30 AM

Originally posted by markmann
ashjn, kudo's on yet another fine f-50 laden recording!!! Sounds great man, I love that thick tone. The songs are well written and the singer has some great pipes. I wasn't able to play Mess Me Up on My Space but I could on your band's website. The sound quality seems better on your website as well. Can you share some of your settings? Can't say I've heard the pulsating tone from my f50 like you get at the end of Mess Me Up.

Great job.

Thanks. That is actually the F-100 though. We turned it up really loud and let the chord ring out and that is what it did. I was surprised and hadn't heard that before either. As for settings, my dirty channel is: Gain 1 o clock, Treble 1 o clock, Mid 1 o clock, Bass 10-11 o clock, no reverb on this recording, and the Master was at 11 o clock. Clean channel: Gain 12-1 o clock, Treble 11 o clock, Middle 12 o clock, Bass 1 o clock, no reverb again, and Master at 11 o clock. That is the general setting for most of the recording, and also for when I play live. When I am playing live though, I have the reverbs up pretty high around 3 o clock and the footswitch them on and off for effects. We recorded one more song that should be up sometime next week.

hal9000

01-26-2006, 08:44 AM

Originally posted by ashjn

Thanks. That is actually the F-100 though. We turned it up really loud and let the chord ring out and that is what it did. I was surprised and hadn't heard that before either. As for settings, my dirty channel is: Gain 1 o clock, Treble 1 o clock, Mid 1 o clock, Bass 10-11 o clock, no reverb on this recording, and the Master was at 11 o clock. Clean channel: Gain 12-1 o clock, Treble 11 o clock, Middle 12 o clock, Bass 1 o clock, no reverb again, and Master at 11 o clock. That is the general setting for most of the recording, and also for when I play live. When I am playing live though, I have the reverbs up pretty high around 3 o clock and the footswitch them on and off for effects. We recorded one more song that should be up sometime next week. I run almost identical settings on my F-100 with my band. :)

ashjn

01-26-2006, 09:08 AM

Awesome. I was surprised because these settings are so closed to all knobs @ 12, and I never though that that is supposed to sound good. But they do. How are you liking the Hotplate with the F-100?

hal9000

01-26-2006, 09:26 AM

Originally posted by ashjn
Awesome. I was surprised because these settings are so closed to all knobs @ 12, and I never though that that is supposed to sound good. But they do. How are you liking the Hotplate with the F-100? Actually, at practice and gig volumes I don't use the Hot Plate anymore. The Loop attenuation from my G-Major is good enough that I don't feel it's necessary to use the Hot Plate unless I'm doing a wet/dry or low volume rig. So, I leave the Hot Plate at home with my Rivera R55-12. Now, at home, the Hot Plate is a really useful tool. I can get conversation level sweet tone out of my two amps. My favorite combination for low volume playing is actually both the loop and power attenuation at the same time. I just setup the Hot Plate for -12 dB with the F-100 OD master on 11:00, and dial-in the rest of the attenuation with the G-Major.

markmann

01-26-2006, 10:44 AM

Originally posted by ashjn

Thanks. That is actually the F-100 though. We turned it up really loud and let the chord ring out and that is what it did. I was surprised and hadn't heard that before either. As for settings, my dirty channel is: Gain 1 o clock, Treble 1 o clock, Mid 1 o clock, Bass 10-11 o clock, no reverb on this recording, and the Master was at 11 o clock. Clean channel: Gain 12-1 o clock, Treble 11 o clock, Middle 12 o clock, Bass 1 o clock, no reverb again, and Master at 11 o clock. That is the general setting for most of the recording, and also for when I play live. When I am playing live though, I have the reverbs up pretty high around 3 o clock and the footswitch them on and off for effects. We recorded one more song that should be up sometime next week. I forgot you had an f100, although the two amp's should have similar characteristics. I never run my f50 at that level so I suppose I need to put in some ear protection and let it rip one day.

ashjn

01-26-2006, 03:46 PM

Originally posted by markmann
I forgot you had an f100, although the two amp's should have similar characteristics. I never run my f50 at that level so I suppose I need to put in some ear protection and let it rip one day.

Yes you do, it is worth it

Tommi Inkila

01-28-2006, 09:45 AM

Hi bros!

I made an unforgivable deed and bought an another amp... here's the link for the thread http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1147483 ;)

prsplayer333

01-28-2006, 01:29 PM

Does anybody use their pod for just the fx through the F? Can anyone walk me through the process of turning all the amp sims off and so that I can basically use the pod as a glorified stomp box?

Cheers

mklein86

01-30-2006, 12:46 AM

just wanted to throw out there that im looking for a used f50 combo if anyone is selling one...

so....

if you have a used f50 combo and your willing to part with it, feel free to email me at mklein86@ku.edu, so i can join this fantastic thread!

Surfcaster

01-30-2006, 08:00 AM

Tommi,

Great sounds with the Valvetronix...I had a AD30VT early last year and really liked the models pretty well (with the exception of the Modern UK and Numetal/Recto that were a little over the top for me...my favorites were UK 80s, 212 Blackface and US High Gain)...I replaced the speaker with an Eminence Red Coat Ramrod and was really quite pleased with the amp...smoothed out the top end quite nicely...stock speaker had a harsh top end with the higher gain models. I ended up selling the amp to get some cash to buy the custom built plexi-style tube amp I finally got in Nov. of last year, but kind of hated to part with the Valvetronix. I'd really like to get a Tonelab one day since I'd mostly use it for direct recording anyway (but that will have to wait a while...just bought a Gibson Les Paul Studio and pretty much spent my guitar budget for the year!). Anyway, I'll forgive you!!

markmann

01-30-2006, 10:41 AM

Originally posted by Tommi Inkila
Hi bros!

I made an unforgivable deed and bought an another amp... here's the link for the thread http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1147483 ;) Unforgivable? The F50 is not my only amp and I ask no forgiveness for that, but the F50 is by far my favorite. Variety is a good thing, right? Your not kicking the F50 to the curb in favor of the Vox are you? I've had a practice amp on my wish list for a while now but just have not got around to actually buying one. The Valvetronix is on the radar screen along with others but that's for another thread.

ashjn

01-30-2006, 06:25 PM

Hey guys, just a little update

We finally got our last 2 songs up. You can hear them at www.myspace.com/bekken or www.bekkenonline.com Set up is Gibson Les Paul Studio into F-100 head into Mesa 2x12 3/4 Back Cabinet

Tommi Inkila

01-31-2006, 08:42 AM

Originally posted by Surfcaster
Tommi,

Great sounds with the Valvetronix...I had a AD30VT early last year and really liked the models pretty well (with the exception of the Modern UK and Numetal/Recto that were a little over the top for me...my favorites were UK 80s, 212 Blackface and US High Gain)...I replaced the speaker with an Eminence Red Coat Ramrod and was really quite pleased with the amp...smoothed out the top end quite nicely...stock speaker had a harsh top end with the higher gain models. I ended up selling the amp to get some cash to buy the custom built plexi-style tube amp I finally got in Nov. of last year, but kind of hated to part with the Valvetronix. I'd really like to get a Tonelab one day since I'd mostly use it for direct recording anyway (but that will have to wait a while...just bought a Gibson Les Paul Studio and pretty much spent my guitar budget for the year!). Anyway, I'll forgive you!!
Thanks! I have about the same favorites as far as the models go and also the least-likeable are the same. I also thought about valvetronix, but since I was on low-budget and needed also little practise. (for what AD15VT is loud, I can also do small gigs with this).

Thanks for forgiving me :)

Tommi Inkila

01-31-2006, 08:44 AM

Originally posted by markmann
Unforgivable? The F50 is not my only amp and I ask no forgiveness for that, but the F50 is by far my favorite. Variety is a good thing, right? Your not kicking the F50 to the curb in favor of the Vox are you? I've had a practice amp on my wish list for a while now but just have not got around to actually buying one. The Valvetronix is on the radar screen along with others but that's for another thread.
Yes, variety is a nice thing. My Mesa is far superior to Vox but it's really great for what it is and what it costs.

Tommi Inkila

01-31-2006, 08:45 AM

Originally posted by ashjn
Hey guys, just a little update

We finally got our last 2 songs up. You can hear them at www.myspace.com/bekken or www.bekkenonline.com Set up is Gibson Les Paul Studio into F-100 head into Mesa 2x12 3/4 Back Cabinet
Sounded good and it's nice hear female singers for a change :thu:

Surfcaster

01-31-2006, 09:43 AM

hal9000

01-31-2006, 12:12 PM

Originally posted by mklein86
just wanted to throw out there that im looking for a used f50 combo if anyone is selling one...

so....

if you have a used f50 combo and your willing to part with it, feel free to email me at mklein86@ku.edu, so i can join this fantastic thread! e4c4ever is selling one for $750 shipped: http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1149866

Gazz

02-01-2006, 02:33 AM

Hi. Thought you might like to know, a good friend of mine borriwed my F50 combo for a gig at the weekend.
It was the Rock & Blues festival in Skegness.

Anyway it was a sellout show of, wait for it 3000 !

The F50 was set using the clasic rock settings, with the master volume at 11 o'clock. What a sound ! It blew away 2 marshall 100 watt stacks and a Carlsbro 50 top all with 4 x 12 cabs !

It nearly didnt need miking. From the back of the auditorium you could easily hear it.

Can any of you guys recommend the best Tube screamer to go with the F50 combo, cant decide whether to go with a TS9 or other. Any comments greatfully received.

Thanks

markmann

02-01-2006, 05:27 AM

Originally posted by Gazz
Hi. Thought you might like to know, a good friend of mine borriwed my F50 combo for a gig at the weekend.
It was the Rock & Blues festival in Skegness.

Anyway it was a sellout show of, wait for it 3000 !

The F50 was set using the clasic rock settings, with the master volume at 11 o'clock. What a sound ! It blew away 2 marshall 100 watt stacks and a Carlsbro 50 top all with 4 x 12 cabs !

It nearly didnt need miking. From the back of the auditorium you could easily hear it.

Can any of you guys recommend the best Tube screamer to go with the F50 combo, cant decide whether to go with a TS9 or other. Any comments greatfully received.

Thanks Great story, Gazz! Why does it not surprize me though that the F50 was able to bully the other amp's on stage. I'm glad to hear that your amp sounded so good especially in front of a large audience. In addition to my F50 I also own a Hiwatt Custom 50 half stack from the 70's which is well known as a very loud amp but the F50 will edge it out in the volume department. These two together with volume cranked I believe could be used for demolition.

I've used a bunch of distortion pedals with my F50 and so far I've stuck with one Boss and an ancient Arion. I've heard good things about the Bad Monkey but I have yet to try that one. I also have never used any of the expensive boutique distortion pedals. That said I was pretty happy with my MIJ Boss OD-2 that I bought in the late 80's but it died shortly after I bought the F-50. The closest replacement I could find was a new Boss SD-1 which I use either for OD on the clean channel or a boost on the red channel. For over the top distortion I use an Arion pedal from the mid 80's which is an awesome sounding pedal but very delicate because of it's poor construction. I use the Arion on the clean channel only. It's a subjective thing though so you really need to try a few out to know what you like.

Mark

hal9000

02-01-2006, 06:57 AM

Gazz

02-01-2006, 09:16 AM

Thanks for that Mark.

Hal, the settings were, 8 oclock treble, 3 oclock middle and 11 oclock bass. The gain was at 1 oclock and the master at 11 oclock.

I have heard good things about the bad monkey also , I have tried the SD1 but it had a bit of a mid hump,. good on single coils but too pronounced on humbuckers.
(Thinks to self ' when will I be ever satified with my sound !)

Incidently anyone seen the video reports from the Namm show, there are fewer this year, and they are shorter in length. Is that because site is now owned by a retailer?

Cheers!

Tommi Inkila

02-01-2006, 09:25 AM

Originally posted by Gazz
Thanks for that Mark.

Hal, the settings were, 8 oclock treble, 3 oclock middle and 11 oclock bass. The gain was at 1 oclock and the master at 11 oclock.

I have heard good things about the bad monkey also , I have tried the SD1 but it had a bit of a mid hump,. good on single coils but too pronounced on humbuckers.
(Thinks to self ' when will I be ever satified with my sound !)

Incidently anyone seen the video reports from the Namm show, there are fewer this year, and they are shorter in length. Is that because site is now owned by a retailer?

Cheers!
Cool to hear your F50 rocked the show!

SD1 is indeed humpy or spiky or whatever. Bad Monkey is the best bang for the buck. It's dirt cheap.

From a little bit expensive models try Visual Sound Route 66 which is embedded with healthy sounding compressor... and then there's Fulltone Fulldrive 2 which I would like to test with the F.

acoustiholic

02-01-2006, 01:07 PM

Hey guys,

I just did my first show with my F-50 and verticle 2-12 recto cab. last Thursday night.
I play a PRS Hollowbody II and this amp smokes! I keep the dirty channel gain around 3-4 - nice crunch with sustain.

Pics following soon....

Surfcaster

02-01-2006, 02:21 PM

markmann

02-02-2006, 08:16 AM

I've been wanting to try the Visual Sound Jeckle & Hyde so if any one has experience please chime in. I like the thought of two seperate distortions in one box to save space and cabling on my board. It gets good reviews but I trust you guys more that the folks who post in the user reviews.

"sasquatch"

02-02-2006, 08:43 AM

Originally posted by markmann
I've been wanting to try the Visual Sound Jeckle & Hyde so if any one has experience please chime in. I like the thought of two seperate distortions in one box to save space and cabling on my board. It gets good reviews but I trust you guys more that the folks who post in the user reviews.

they are excellent! the OD is very ts808-ish and the distortion is like a distortion version of an 808. an incredible amount on tones can come out of the distortion side. i think this pedal is a must have (no...i don't have mine yet..:D ). you won't be disappointed. it is built like a tank too.

VoodooChild24

02-02-2006, 08:59 AM

Originally posted by Tommi Inkila

Cool to hear your F50 rocked the show!

SD1 is indeed humpy or spiky or whatever. Bad Monkey is the best bang for the buck. It's dirt cheap.

From a little bit expensive models try Visual Sound Route 66 which is embedded with healthy sounding compressor... and then there's Fulltone Fulldrive 2 which I would like to test with the F.

Right on Tommi, i use a bad monkey in front of my F100 if i need an ovedrive boost to make the mids more tighter. I also use a EHX Big Muff if i need a little more dirty, darker sounding tone. The fuzz that the big muff brings gives me more grit.

These are some very cheap pedals that colors my sound and does the job. I really haven't tried any expensive pedals....yet. :)

markmann

02-02-2006, 09:00 AM

Originally posted by doggage5050

they are excellent! the OD is very ts808-ish and the distortion is like a distortion version of an 808. an incredible amount on tones can come out of the distortion side. i think this pedal is a must have (no...i don't have mine yet..:D ). you won't be disappointed. it is built like a tank too. Thanks, Adam. So I assume that you have used one and are now wanting to buy one? Were you able to try it with the F50? I only ask because some of the distortion boxes that I've used in the past didn't sound as good with the F50 for some reason.

VoodooChild24

02-02-2006, 09:08 AM

Does anyone here use a Maxon OD-808? I wanted to know how it compares with the TS-808. I'm thinking of demoing one and see if there's a difference with my bad monkey.

Dann'sTheMan

02-03-2006, 03:42 AM

I'm afraid I can't contribute too much with regards to OD pedals as I don't use one. Instead I use a vintage MXR Dynacomp pedal to hit the front end harder when desired. It operates more like a clean boost, so it's not adding too much grit of its own.

On both channels, I tend to run it with the amp's gain around 9 o'clock. On the clean channel, this makes the sound even more dynamic, but with a looser bottom end that can go toe to toe with a Twin. On the dirty channels, I use it to expand the range of more vintage tones available (the Classic High Gain sound clip in my sig was recorded this way).

I am interested in possibly getting a tube screamer type overdrive to use in conjunction with my Dynacomp, but I'm in no rush as my current rig is already stunningly versatile. I've quickly tried my V-Twin pedal in front of the F-50, but things got too compressed and dark for my tastes. I need to spend some more time with this combination, but I have found the V-Twin needs to be paired with a bright amp - it sounds glorious with my little Fender Princeton Chorus. :)

Big smiles,

Andy.

P.S. Gazz and acoustiholic - awesome stories of your F-50s in action. I would love to see piccies. (BTW, Gazz, if your ever gigging 'darn sarf' - let me know, I'd love to come see. ) :cool:

Tommi Inkila

02-03-2006, 09:36 AM

Originally posted by markmann
I've been wanting to try the Visual Sound Jeckle & Hyde so if any one has experience please chime in. I like the thought of two seperate distortions in one box to save space and cabling on my board. It gets good reviews but I trust you guys more that the folks who post in the user reviews.
Jekyll & Hyde is a quality pedal. As the rest of Visual Sounds. The "tube screamer" side is the same as in Route 66. The few times I've played mostly with the both sides on. The sound is somewhat brutal if needed that way but noisy as you can expect with 2 distortions on. Definately worth checking out.

Tommi Inkila

02-03-2006, 09:53 AM

Hi!

I've been thinking to start mastering as a side job... it's still under planning and I don't know will I ever put some site etc. up.

If you guys have some projects in need of mastering I'll gladly practise with your stuff :) I'd have time to do few at this moment.

mrelusive

02-03-2006, 04:08 PM

ah, the brotherhood.... been a couple months since i've been here. what with my PC crashing and having to use windows ME and all....

anyways, it's tax return time and i was havin a little difficulty with a purchase decision. I use my mesa f-50 head with an avatar 4x12 loaded with vintage 30s... My guitar is a solid mahogany, double-humbucker style guitar with Alnico V's in it. I like the warmth a lot, but i'd like a little bit tighter of a sound, a little more agressive when i wanna be.

should i....

A) buy two new pickups (like a duncan JB/Jazz combo) and toss em in my Yamaha
B) buy a new guitar with pickups i like
C) buy a guitar that feels good, then toss new pickups in it.
D) buy a duncan Pickup booster / bad monkey overdrive or similar pedal....

Don't wanna lose the warm, full sound i get clean or distorted... but i can't seem to get "heavy enough" at times. money's not too big of a deal right now.

Tommi Inkila

02-04-2006, 01:45 AM

Originally posted by mrelusive

B) buy a new guitar with pickups i like
C) buy a guitar that feels good, then toss new pickups in it.

I'd go either with options B or C ... those Duncans get enough heavy and beyond if needed. Dimarzios tend to be less organic but much aggressive I think.

Checkout these guitars... great quality for what I've tried and many models has JB/Jazz stock (ie. C-series) http://www.schecterguitars.com/menu_guitars.asp?guitartype=1

Antti Loponen

02-04-2006, 05:21 PM

mrelusive

02-04-2006, 06:59 PM

Kevin@Tone-Jam.

02-05-2006, 04:20 AM

I had this discussion with Dann awhile back on another board, and after listening to so many more clips I KNOW I am getting an F-50!

My classic 50 is just to big for the small clubs I be playing this year.

JoeYSatch

02-05-2006, 09:10 AM

Hey guys.
I'm gonna be getting a new amp soon and am thinking about at Mesa F series.(50/100 head)
Although I think Tommi Inkila's clips have sold me.
All I can think is WOW.:D
If I could get even near that tone with one I'd be very happy.

Tommi Inkila

02-05-2006, 09:28 AM

Originally posted by JoeYSatch
Hey guys.
I'm gonna be getting a new amp soon and am thinking about at Mesa F series.(50/100 head)
Although I think Tommi Inkila's clips have sold me.
All I can think is WOW.:D
If I could get even near that tone with one I'd be very happy.
Wow!

I'm flattered if my clips will be big part of your purchasing decision. Checkout Hal9000's audition settings and mine... what's cool with the F is that you can't start everything at 12 o'clock and it sounds nice (although volume should be 9:30).

"sasquatch"

02-05-2006, 10:15 AM

Originally posted by Kevin@Tone-Jam.
I had this discussion with Dann awhile back on another board, and after listening to so many more clips I KNOW I am getting an F-50!

My classic 50 is just to big for the small clubs I be playing this year.

be warned: the F50 is louder than the c50, and weighs about as much too. very heavy for their size. however, you will be very happy. the f50 blows the c50 out of the water.

markmann

02-06-2006, 05:35 AM

Originally posted by Tommi Inkila

Jekyll & Hyde is a quality pedal. As the rest of Visual Sounds. The "tube screamer" side is the same as in Route 66. The few times I've played mostly with the both sides on. The sound is somewhat brutal if needed that way but noisy as you can expect with 2 distortions on. Definately worth checking out. Thanks, Tommi... much appreciated. If the J&H was a cheap pedal I would just buy it but since it's a bit pricy I was hoping to hear from someone that had tried it with an F50.

markmann

02-06-2006, 05:44 AM

Originally posted by mrelusive

ya know.... i totally forgot about this, but I played a C1 exotic a couple months ago and loved it through the f-50. Thanks for reminding me and thanks for the advice. Can we assume that you've found your dream guitar? FYI, I bought a guitar last fall and used option C:

C) buy a guitar that feels good, then toss new pickups in it.

Kevin@Tone-Jam.

02-06-2006, 06:40 AM

Originally posted by doggage5050

be warned: the F50 is louder than the c50, and weighs about as much too. very heavy for their size. however, you will be very happy. the f50 blows the c50 out of the water.

my c50 is the 4x10 model, and it's one heavy mother fucker.

I already let my wife know that my next purchase is going to be the F50.

She understands me. :thu:

Tommi Inkila

02-06-2006, 08:09 AM

Originally posted by markmann
Thanks, Tommi... much appreciated. If the J&H was a cheap pedal I would just buy it but since it's a bit pricy I was hoping to hear from someone that had tried it with an F50.
No problem... everyone of those Visual Sounds are worth the money I think.

BTW I've been seeing lots of topics about F-series lately... I guess we are doing something right brothers :)

Tommi Inkila

02-06-2006, 08:10 AM

Originally posted by Kevin@Tone-Jam.
She understands me. :thu:
That's great :thu:

Welcome aboard!

VoodooChild24

02-06-2006, 08:32 AM

Originally posted by JoeYSatch
Hey guys.
I'm gonna be getting a new amp soon and am thinking about at Mesa F series.(50/100 head)
Although I think Tommi Inkila's clips have sold me.
All I can think is WOW.:D
If I could get even near that tone with one I'd be very happy.

Hey JoeYSatch,

Let me welcome you to the club! Like you, i actually decided to get my F-100 last year after reading the F-series lounge and after talking to Neil and Andy. I actually have a Triple Rectifier as well but my F100 can hold its own. It has it's own strengths. I thought i can let go of it but i don't think that's going to happen. I love the F-series.

Post pics when you get the chance.

ashjn

02-06-2006, 08:59 AM

I just took some pictures of my F-100, how do I get them up here from my computer? Do you have to have a website that hosts them or can you add them like attachments?

mrelusive

02-06-2006, 09:09 AM

Originally posted by markmann
Can we assume that you've found your dream guitar? FYI, I bought a guitar last fall and used option C:

C) buy a guitar that feels good, then toss new pickups in it.

Would pickups be that hard to install? i mean, i have a soldering iron and i can read english...

If i go with this route, is there anything i should look out for? like wood choice, electronics setup (coil tapping, number of tone / volume knobs, etc.), type of stock pickups.... or should i just make sure it has two humbuckers in it, then buy two more humbuckers?

Surfcaster

02-06-2006, 10:19 AM

Originally posted by mrelusive
ah, the brotherhood.... been a couple months since i've been here. what with my PC crashing and having to use windows ME and all....

anyways, it's tax return time and i was havin a little difficulty with a purchase decision. I use my mesa f-50 head with an avatar 4x12 loaded with vintage 30s... My guitar is a solid mahogany, double-humbucker style guitar with Alnico V's in it. I like the warmth a lot, but i'd like a little bit tighter of a sound, a little more agressive when i wanna be.

should i....

A) buy two new pickups (like a duncan JB/Jazz combo) and toss em in my Yamaha
B) buy a new guitar with pickups i like
C) buy a guitar that feels good, then toss new pickups in it.
D) buy a duncan Pickup booster / bad monkey overdrive or similar pedal....

Don't wanna lose the warm, full sound i get clean or distorted... but i can't seem to get "heavy enough" at times. money's not too big of a deal right now.

I think part of it depends on what kind of cash you want to spend. If you're trying to do it on a budget, my advice would be to try a booster pedal first...take your guitar and amp to a store and see if a booster pedal will get you where you wanna go. If so, do it. If not, consider getting new pickups next.

If you have the cash to spend and are wanting a new guitar anyway, go that route.

If you like your guitar, but aren't happy with the pickups, go with new pickups.

As far as installing new pickups, if you're comfortable with a soldering iron it's a piece of cake. Just be sure you either have a wiring guide or that you take notice of how the stock pickup is wired before you take it out.

Coil tapping is a nice feature...gives some flexibility to your sound...however if you're not set up for it, you'll need to replace one of your tone pots with one that has a push/pull switch built into it...it's also a little trickier to wire, but again if you have a wiring guide it's not hard. You have to get a pickup with 4 separate leads to wire for coil tapping. But also think about how much you'll use it.

As for the type of pickup...see if you can play a comparable guitar with that pickup in it before buying...I tried a JB based on all the hype and didn't really care for it. Got a DiMarzio Virtual PAF and really like it, though I'm more of a classic and 80's rock guy...occasionally stepping out into more modern heavy tones. Keep in mind that while retailers will not let you exchange or return pickups, both Duncan and DiMarzio will let you exchange your pickup within 30 days or so if you're not getting the tone you're looking for.

Good luck.

markmann

02-06-2006, 11:46 AM

Originally posted by mrelusive

Would pickups be that hard to install? i mean, i have a soldering iron and i can read english...

If i go with this route, is there anything i should look out for? like wood choice, electronics setup (coil tapping, number of tone / volume knobs, etc.), type of stock pickups.... or should i just make sure it has two humbuckers in it, then buy two more humbuckers? My advice would be to start with a guitar that has the type of pickup and control configuration that you're interested in. As an example if you're after a Les Paul type guitar you'd want something with two humbuckers with two tone and two volume controls. That way all you have to do is exchange the pup's with no other mod's. If you decide to add coil tap, etc you can do that by using special pots that include a built in switch or you can simply add a separate switch. There are diagrams to show you all of this and the pup maker usually has them and they are also in any guitar wiring book you'll find. Pup's are generally interchangeable but the wire color codes are different between manufacturers. Some pup's only have two wires which means you can wire it one way only. Standard wiring for a humbucking is with coils series out of phase. Some pup's have four wires which gives you more options. The four wires are to access the start and end of the wound wire on both coils. The different options are series out of phase, series in phase, parallel out of phase and parallel in phase. When you cut coil your only using one of the two coils.

All that said most people agree that the standard wiring configuration is the best. I have found uses for the parallel out of phase wiring but limited to thinner more single coil-ish tones. Actual coil tap means no humbucking so it's noisy. Also remember that the more switches and wire you add in your guitar the more you potentially degrade your tone.

Wood is another subject. Is there a guitar you like the sound of? When I bought my guitar I was looking for something close to a Les Paul. I know that LP's are made from mahogany so I bought a mahogany guitar with two humbuckers. If I were after a Strat type tone I'd look for an alder guitar with single coils pup's.

Here is a wood tone chart from the Carvin site that gives all the popular guitar woods and their tone characteristics. Check it out. (http://www.carvin.com/wood_finish/)

Hope this helps

mrelusive

02-06-2006, 01:35 PM

Wood is another subject. Is there a guitar you like the sound of? When I bought my guitar I was looking for something close to a Les Paul. I know that LP's are made from mahogany so I bought a mahogany guitar with two humbuckers. If I were after a Strat type tone I'd look for an alder guitar with single coils pup's.

Here is a wood tone chart from the Carvin site that gives all the popular guitar woods and their tone characteristics. Check it out. (http://www.carvin.com/wood_finish/)

Hope this helps [/B][/QUOTE]

My Yamaha is mahogany, and it get's really close to my 'dream sound,' and most of the guitar tones i've liked in the past have been from Gibson and other mahogany guitars. Someone suggested Koa to me, but how often do you really see that?

As for the electronics stuff, my Yamaha has coil taps in it, but i don't really use them that often unless i'm using both pickups with a clean sound. My main concern was if i find a guitar i want to put new pickups in, and that guitar had coil taps pre-installed, would it be hard to re-wire it with new pickups and no coil tapping? i have a wiring diagram for my guitar that i got from Yamaha (excellent customer service through the mail.) so that's all set...

I also like the way that the ibanez sz520/720s are wired. The pickup switching system is great with splitting and whatever the hell they do, but without the push-pull knobs that i have. I like that much better. Plus i like the selector switch down by the knobs, as opposed to up by the neck... i keep hitting mine accidentally.....

man, now i'm gonna hafta go try a buncha guitars again and see what i want. Decisions, decisions.

Surfcaster

02-06-2006, 03:30 PM

Rewiring isn't hard as long as you have the right diagrams. My Surfcaster came with a push/pull pot on the tone knob for phase reversal...never used it at all, so I rewired it to split the coils on the bridge...don't use it a lot, but do sometimes in conjunction with the lipstick in the neck for clean sounds like you mentioned.

Just been through the "choosing a new guitar" thing myself. Really wanted an LP style guitar, but wasn't excited about Gibson prices. But I had a hard time finding a quality LP-style guitar that had all the features I wanted...ended up getting a very nice used Gibson LP Studio with the Fireburst finish and am very pleased with it...but it took a long time to come to that point...and who knows, I may still swap out the pickups down the road...but I'm way happy for now (Sounds absolutely smashing with the F50, BTW!! :thu: )

VoodooChild24

02-06-2006, 03:32 PM

Originally posted by ashjn
I just took some pictures of my F-100, how do I get them up here from my computer? Do you have to have a website that hosts them or can you add them like attachments?

Go to photobucket.com and register. You can upload your pics for free and it will automatically give the code for you. :thu:

markmann

02-07-2006, 05:54 AM

Originally posted by mrelusive
My Yamaha is mahogany, and it get's really close to my 'dream sound,' and most of the guitar tones i've liked in the past have been from Gibson and other mahogany guitars. Someone suggested Koa to me, but how often do you really see that?

man, now i'm gonna hafta go try a buncha guitars again and see what i want. Decisions, decisions. It sounds like you're already in the ballpark.... mahogany body with two humbuckers and you know the control configuration you like. Look at some guitar wiring diagrams and you'll get a good feel for what you can do. You might get your own idea for a custom setup.

The guitar I chose was a 2005 Ibanez Artist because it was inexpensive, excellent build quality, mahagany body, two humbuckers, two vol and two tone controls, shielded control cavities, nice hardware and great neck. On top of that it is also confortable and looks nice with flame top, totally bound and pearl inlays. The only thing I didn't like was the sound, but for the price I felt that it was the perfect donor guitar to modify. After some research I ended up installing a Seymour Duncan Alnico II Pro at the neck and a Pearly Gates at the bridge. Plugged into the F50 the tone is WOW!!! As good or better than any LP I've ever heard at a fraction of the price. The folks at SD are really cool and the forum is very helpful. Check it out. (http://seymourduncan.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=3)

FYI, I have a koa guitar and it does sound good but is very heavy.

Mark

Dylan Walters

02-07-2006, 08:42 AM

A few weeks ago I played through an Orange Rockerverb 50 head and fell in love with it. At the time, I decided to sell my F-30 and go with the Orange, but after spending some more time experimenting with my Mesa I have decided to hold off for a while. I just picked up a used 2x12 Rectifier cab last night to compliment the F-30. The cab is rated for 8 ohms, and my F-30 has one 8 ohm output for the built-in speaker and two 4 ohm speaker outputs. So far, I have only ran it through the 8 ohm output, but this disables use of the built-in speaker. The manual shows that the 4 ohm outputs are for use with 8 ohm speakers, but something tells me that this isn’t right. Can anyone confirm if this should work? The cab sounds great running by itself, but I’d love to take advantage of the built-in speaker as well.

hal9000

02-07-2006, 08:46 AM

Originally posted by Dylan Walters
A few weeks ago I played through an Orange Rockerverb 50 head and fell in love with it. At the time, I decided to sell my F-30 and go with the Orange, but after spending some more time experimenting with my Mesa I have decided to hold off for a while. I just picked up a used 2x12 Rectifier cab last night to compliment the F-30. The cab is rated for 8 ohms, and my F-30 has one 8 ohm output for the built-in speaker and two 4 ohm speaker outputs. So far, I have only ran it through the 8 ohm output, but this disables use of the built-in speaker. The manual shows that the 4 ohm outputs are for use with 8 ohm speakers, but something tells me that this isn’t right. Can anyone confirm if this should work? The cab sounds great running by itself, but I’d love to take advantage of the built-in speaker as well. Plug both the combo speaker and external cab into the two 4 Ohm jacks. These jacks are in parallel and rated for 4 Ohms, (Two 8 Ohm loads in parallel = 4 Ohms). This is how I run my F-100 2x12 combo and Avatar 8 Ohm 2x12 cab.

Dylan Walters

02-07-2006, 09:13 AM

Sweet! You da man, bro :thu:!

Surfcaster

02-07-2006, 12:00 PM

Originally posted by Dylan Walters
A few weeks ago I played through an Orange Rockerverb 50 head and fell in love with it. At the time, I decided to sell my F-30 and go with the Orange, but after spending some more time experimenting with my Mesa I have decided to hold off for a while. I just picked up a used 2x12 Rectifier cab last night to compliment the F-30. The cab is rated for 8 ohms, and my F-30 has one 8 ohm output for the built-in speaker and two 4 ohm speaker outputs. So far, I have only ran it through the 8 ohm output, but this disables use of the built-in speaker. The manual shows that the 4 ohm outputs are for use with 8 ohm speakers, but something tells me that this isn’t right. Can anyone confirm if this should work? The cab sounds great running by itself, but I’d love to take advantage of the built-in speaker as well.

That is correct. If you are using the built-in speaker and a separate 8 ohm cab simultaneously , you would want to plug both into 4 ohm plugs because, the two 8 ohm speakers are providing a 4 ohm load to the amp.

Edit: Hal9000 must have been typing at the same time I was...didn't mean to be redundant here! :)

fancynapkin

02-07-2006, 10:00 PM

I always end up at the F-50 as the best combo for me.
My problem is, is the overdrive good? I keep hearing good things about the cleans, but that the overdrive is muddy and undefined, and also that its hard to get semi-overdriven sounds. Eh?

Tommi Inkila

02-07-2006, 11:37 PM

Surfcaster

02-08-2006, 09:30 AM

Originally posted by fancynapkin
I always end up at the F-50 as the best combo for me.
My problem is, is the overdrive good? I keep hearing good things about the cleans, but that the overdrive is muddy and undefined, and also that its hard to get semi-overdriven sounds. Eh?

I have no problemgetting semi-overdriven tones from my F50. I think this amp covers the entire spectrum from pristine clean to high gain, stopping just short of dual rec. amounts of gain. If you crank the gain on the clean channel you get a very nice breakup, and you can basically pickup from that point on the lead channel. I will grant you that the gain increases from mild to medium pretty quickly on the dial, but with just the slightest amount of patience you can easily dial in those tones.

Guitarist UK magazine actually rated the F50 as the best amp made by Mesa (at that time anyway) for covering the in-between gain levels.

Dann'sTheMan

02-08-2006, 09:51 AM

UK Guitarist magazine, having raved about the clean channel, went on to describe the F-50's dirty sounds in this way,

"The F-50’s lead channel is equally special. There’s a definite Rectifier influence here, but with more warmth and only slightly less gain. It’s one of the best lead sounds we’ve heard, and with the master volume up to gigging levels the F-50 has that same vocal quality as the best Mark IIs, changing in character as notes are attacked at varying strength. At full-tilt the gain levels are gleefully mad, but totally useable with no feedback or oscillation problems. Channel 2’s contour function adds the same punch Boogie owners get from setting the graphic EQ to a ‘V’ shape – pushing the sound forwards and propelling everything with more urgency, cutting through the muddiest of live mixes. Lower gain settings are just as rewarding, which wasn’t the case with the Caliber series, but here’s where the F-50 sings the blues with a tone to die for – it’s highly touchsensitive and full of expression."

FWIW, I agree. The F-series has its own lead voicing compared to other Mesas, but I love it, and it is incredibly touch sensitive! :cool:

Big smiles,

Andy.

Surfcaster

02-08-2006, 09:59 AM

Hey, I was just wondering...does anyone know of any big names using F-Series amplifiers? Not that it really matters, I'll continue to love mine no matter, but I was just curious.

musicdog400

02-08-2006, 10:13 AM

I think the F50 does the following very well:
-cleans
-light / med distortion / fusion / Eric Johnson
-80s type metal

My few complaints would be
-it doesn't want to do nu metal
-parallel effects loop that won't dial out the orignal signal (needed for some effects)
-tone stack is pre-distortion, controls have very little effect at higher gain.

I have had the amp for over a year and I still love it. It is my favorite amp by far, of all I own.

RockinIt

02-08-2006, 02:18 PM

So after reading this gigantic thread....I have come to the decision I might just want a Mesa F50....BUT...can they do metal really well? I listened to the clips, they were pretty good. I was wondering if you could kind of get a The Black Dahlia Murder tone out of the F50 head ran through a Vintage30 equipped 2x12? I know they use Triple Recs....I run without a boost using a PRS CE24 modded with 1meg pots...so pretty much a tad brighter of a PRS. Any help would be appreciated.

Kevin@Tone-Jam.

02-08-2006, 04:40 PM

Originally posted by Surfcaster
Hey, I was just wondering...does anyone know of any big names using F-Series amplifiers? Not that it really matters, I'll continue to love mine no matter, but I was just curious.

I believe Larry Chaney of the the Edwin McCAin band uses on,

Edwin (http://edwin.com)

imissjoey

02-08-2006, 04:59 PM

Hello F-series brothers. I was wondering if anyone by chance had clips of a P-90 equipped guitar through an f-series, preferrably the F-50. I am in the market for a new guitar and am thinking that some P-90's would be an excellent companion for my F-50. However, I won't have a chance to audish any guitars for sometime due to some things I have going on. Thanks for any and all help.

Tommi Inkila

02-08-2006, 11:55 PM

Originally posted by RockinIt
So after reading this gigantic thread....I have come to the decision I might just want a Mesa F50....BUT...can they do metal really well? I listened to the clips, they were pretty good. I was wondering if you could kind of get a The Black Dahlia Murder tone out of the F50 head ran through a Vintage30 equipped 2x12? I know they use Triple Recs....I run without a boost using a PRS CE24 modded with 1meg pots...so pretty much a tad brighter of a PRS. Any help would be appreciated.
Hello!

I would say that you get pretty close to that sound. I listened some sounds on their site and immediately noticed the rectifier sound although I believe there was an another amp in the mix also. Another option is that since the tone is really compressed and that makes it sound a little bit different than usual.

If I have to make a generalization I'd said that F-series are more centered on high-mids as where as rectifiers are low-mid. You can counteract this with ie. suitable pickups. I have now played my F with Duncan JB's and I think my F sounds even more recto than it sounds on my clips. 2x12" will be excellent since it has more definition than 4x12" has, instead of the low-end that it gives.

Hope that helps :rolleyes:

RockinIt

02-09-2006, 12:26 AM

Originally posted by Tommi Inkila

Hello!

I would say that you get pretty close to that sound. I listened some sounds on their site and immediately noticed the rectifier sound although I believe there was an another amp in the mix also. Another option is that since the tone is really compressed and that makes it sound a little bit different than usual.

If I have to make a generalization I'd said that F-series are more centered on high-mids as where as rectifiers are low-mid. You can counteract this with ie. suitable pickups. I have now played my F with Duncan JB's and I think my F sounds even more recto than it sounds on my clips. 2x12" will be excellent since it has more definition than 4x12" has, instead of the low-end that it gives.

Hope that helps :rolleyes:

Thanks a bunch man! That's cool because I planned to put some new pickups in my CE anyways....JB/59 :)

I look forward to posting that I got it :) Also, it was cool of you to check them out to get an idea of the tone!
:thu:

Tommi Inkila

02-09-2006, 01:05 AM

Originally posted by RockinIt

Thanks a bunch man! That's cool because I planned to put some new pickups in my CE anyways....JB/59 :)

I look forward to posting that I got it :) Also, it was cool of you to check them out to get an idea of the tone!
:thu:
No problem!

I'm glad I could help :)

BTW, that's the exact same pickup configuration that I would choose to a custom guitar at the moment.

markmann

02-09-2006, 11:02 AM

Originally posted by imissjoey
Hello F-series brothers. I was wondering if anyone by chance had clips of a P-90 equipped guitar through an f-series, preferrably the F-50. I am in the market for a new guitar and am thinking that some P-90's would be an excellent companion for my F-50. However, I won't have a chance to audish any guitars for sometime due to some things I have going on. Thanks for any and all help. I don't have clips but I have a P90 in my lap steel and I can tell you that it sounds wicked. Also, the bridge pup that I have in my Strat mimmicks a P90 and it sounds equally good. The F50 in my experience seems to like P90's as much as humbuckers and have nice bite and definition.

Hope that helps,

Mark

LnTh

02-09-2006, 01:18 PM

Hey f'ers :p :D

I'm a Mark IV owner but id like to check an f series one day. I was just browsing the thread and i thought what the hell i should bump it :thu:

Tommi, I still remember your clips from months ago. Those were awesome. Gotta dig some threads.

EDIT: DOH!!!! It's the first and the second clips in your sig :D

RockinIt

02-09-2006, 01:25 PM

Since Mesa doesn't list street prices...how much is the F50 head?

Also, since I mostly play small jams with friends unless a gig is in order....what OHM rating would I need for a hot plate?

It would be Mesa F50->Hot Plate->Avatar 2x12 with V30s@4ohm

so I guess...With a 4ohm speaker out on the F50 head....and 4ohm rating on the cab, I'd need a 4ohm attenuator?

Tommi Inkila

02-09-2006, 01:34 PM

Originally posted by LnTh
Hey f'ers :p :D

I'm a Mark IV owner but id like to check an f series one day. I was just browsing the thread and i thought what the hell i should bump it :thu:

Tommi, I still remember your clips from months ago. Those were awesome. Gotta dig some threads.

EDIT: DOH!!!! It's the first and the second clips in your sig :D
Thanks man!

I remember that we had a talk few months ago... checkout also my bands new trailer and some other clips!

Rock on!

hal9000

02-09-2006, 02:04 PM

Originally posted by RockinIt
Since Mesa doesn't list street prices...how much is the F50 head?

Also, since I mostly play small jams with friends unless a gig is in order....what OHM rating would I need for a hot plate?

It would be Mesa F50->Hot Plate->Avatar 2x12 with V30s@4ohm

so I guess...With a 4ohm speaker out on the F50 head....and 4ohm rating on the cab, I'd need a 4ohm attenuator?

IIRC the Mesa F-50 Head is USD $1049.

If you already have the Avatar 2x12 @ 4 Ohms, then yes the Hot Plate should be 4 Ohms as well.

RockinIt

02-09-2006, 02:08 PM

Originally posted by hal9000
IIRC the Mesa F-50 Head is USD $1049.

If you already have the Avatar 2x12 @ 4 Ohms, then yes the Hot Plate should be 4 Ohms as well.
Thanks!

LnTh

02-09-2006, 02:16 PM

Originally posted by Tommi Inkila

Thanks man!

I remember that we had a talk few months ago... checkout also my bands new trailer and some other clips!

Rock on!
Trailer is damn impressive!
My only comment is i kinda think the vocals should be just a little more wet at some parts if that makes sense. Like a little reverb or throwing it just a lil back relative to the instruments. that kind of thing. But its still awesome imo. :thu: Let us know when the cd comes out!!

Tommi Inkila

02-09-2006, 02:26 PM

Originally posted by LnTh

Trailer is damn impressive!
My only comment is i kinda think the vocals should be just a little more wet at some parts if that makes sense. Like a little reverb or throwing it just a lil back relative to the instruments. that kind of thing. But its still awesome imo. :thu: Let us know when the cd comes out!!
Thanks!

Yeah there may be some parts that could have reverberated differently. On the other hand, we were after raw sound :evil: :p ... there lots of more effected vocal parts, but those didn't end up on the trailer.

... don't worry the forum will be under heavy spamming when cd comes out :D

bikerdude2

02-09-2006, 03:16 PM

Love your vintage High Gain setting...I run the gain at noon but use the rest of your settings. Having owned 3 DC-5 Combo's, a Single Recto, a Mark I, and a Mark IV, I must say my F-30 is the best plug and play Boogie I've owned.:thu:

ashjn

02-10-2006, 09:32 PM

Has anyone tried any of the Damage Control Products infront of their F-Series? I am borrowing a Womanizer and tried it infront of my F-100 for a little bit and was pretty impressed. It sounds good, however I haven't really found any settings that I can't get with the EQ knobs on the F-100 so far. I will try it more extensivly tomorrow and see. If anyone has tried this before, let me know...

EdMan57

02-10-2006, 11:47 PM

I tried an F-50 today...but only at very low volume.I loved the clean channel...even at low volume I could hear the Fender blackface like punch and sparkle.The gain tones did not impress nearly as much as on my '84 MKIIC+ 60 watt head,which sounds killer...even at whisper volume.I found the gain and contour tones to be somewhat loose and crude.Of course,this was at about 1/2 on the master.Do the higher gain tones fatten and smooth out with the master up a bit?I wasn't able to play at any real volume [store issues],so I expect some "yes" responses...but I do love the clean tones that came from the F-50.

Ed

klvanzu

02-11-2006, 01:25 AM

Originally posted by EdMan57
I tried an F-50 today...but only at very low volume.I loved the clean channel...even at low volume I could hear the Fender blackface like punch and sparkle.The gain tones did not impress nearly as much as on my '84 MKIIC+ 60 watt head,which sounds killer...even at whisper volume.I found the gain and contour tones to be somewhat loose and crude.Of course,this was at about 1/2 on the master.Do the higher gain tones fatten and smooth out with the master up a bit?I wasn't able to play at any real volume [store issues],so I expect some "yes" responses...but I do love the clean tones that came from the F-50.

Ed

Your expectations were dead on. The f-50 needs to be cranked to get some of the great high-gain tones out of it. When I first got my f-50 I was wondering the same thing. I heard all of these clips on the net with some awesome high-gain tones and couldn't get them with the low volumes. When I cranked it I got some amazing high-gain metal tones and made me feel a lot better about the purchase. Only thing that sucked is that I had to buy an attenuator so my ears didn't bleed.

ashjn

02-11-2006, 09:01 AM

Which attenuator did you end up getting?

klvanzu

02-11-2006, 11:13 AM

thd hotplate

Kevin@Tone-Jam.

02-11-2006, 11:32 AM

Just wanted to throw this out there...

I went to a local shop that carries mesa's (they used too anyway)

They had a used DC-5. I tried it and really liked the tones I got. anybody have any experience with them?

Alchemist

02-11-2006, 12:00 PM

Hi all, I've been following this thread for a while, thought I would chime in. Heres my F-30 head, and a new Fender Super-Sonic cab I am running it into :)

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a219/Alchemist88/guitarrig.jpg

ashjn

02-11-2006, 12:59 PM

Originally posted by klvanzu
thd hotplate

Does it make a big difference with the F-50. I am in the market for one too, and am trying to get people's opinions on different attenuators

klvanzu

02-11-2006, 02:38 PM

well the hotplate is going to be the best option. It keeps the tone of the amp very good - especially compared to other attenuators. The volume steps kind of suck but it's not too big of a deal.

bikerdude2

02-11-2006, 02:55 PM

Originally posted by Kevin@Tone-Jam.
Just wanted to throw this out there...

I went to a local shop that carries mesa's (they used too anyway)

They had a used DC-5. I tried it and really liked the tones I got. anybody have any experience with them? I've owned 3 of them. I found them to be smoother than the Recto's with a similar voicing IMO. YMMV.

Dann'sTheMan

02-11-2006, 03:05 PM

Originally posted by Alchemist
Hi all, I've been following this thread for a while, thought I would chime in. Heres my F-30 head, and a new Fender Super-Sonic cab I am running it into :)
<snip/>

Love it! That cab looks so classy, and with the F-30 sitting on top, it's very much a wolf in sheep's clothing kind of deal!. :thu:

Big smiles,

Andy.

bikerdude2

02-11-2006, 03:14 PM

Originally posted by Alchemist
Hi all, I've been following this thread for a while, thought I would chime in. Heres my F-30 head, and a new Fender Super-Sonic cab I am running it into :)

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a219/Alchemist88/guitarrig.jpg Pump it out pretty good?

Alchemist

02-11-2006, 03:59 PM

Originally posted by bikerdude2
Pump it out pretty good?

Its excellent. I cant play it with master past 1 as its insanely loud:freak:

bikerdude2

02-11-2006, 04:44 PM

I haven't tried running my combo thru my Bogner 2-12 yet. Can't wait to hear it thru a nice cab.:thu:

Alchemist

02-11-2006, 05:31 PM

Originally posted by bikerdude2
I haven't tried running my combo thru my Bogner 2-12 yet. Can't wait to hear it thru a nice cab.:thu:

I was running it through an open back 112 up until now (essentialy your typical combo configuration). I plugged it into the supersonic and it just came to life. This little guy definitely has enough power to push the big cab and then some.

bikerdude2

02-11-2006, 07:38 PM

:thu:

Alchemist

02-12-2006, 07:50 AM

Hey guys, I'm simplifying my rig effects wise and want to clean up the clutter. So I am just going simple rack mount. I was thinking just a G-Major and a Furman, then a G-Minor on the ground. I know the premise of the G-Major is to maintain the amps character. Would this be the ideal setup for my F-30. Thoughts and experiences are appreciated:)

hal9000

02-12-2006, 01:07 PM

Originally posted by Alchemist
Hey guys, I'm simplifying my rig effects wise and want to clean up the clutter. So I am just going simple rack mount. I was thinking just a G-Major and a Furman, then a G-Minor on the ground. I know the premise of the G-Major is to maintain the amps character. Would this be the ideal setup for my F-30. Thoughts and experiences are appreciated:) The G-Major works great in the loop of my F-100 with the parallel mix set for 90%. I can't tell it's there, and with the Input and Output knobs at 12:00 I get enough loop attenuation to crank up the OD master to about 10:30 for practice/gig volumes. So, my F-100 actually sounds better with the G-Major in the loop. :)

As far as a controller, I don't know what your requirements are, but for me the G-Minor was too limiting for my taste. Since I could replicate the number of tones I used to get from my pedal board, I went with the Behringer FCB 1010, which gives me everything I was looking for and so much more.

Alchemist

02-12-2006, 01:12 PM

Originally posted by hal9000
The G-Major works great in the loop of my F-100 with the parallel mix set for 90%. I can't tell it's there, and with the Input and Output knobs at 12:00 I get enough loop attenuation to crank up the OD master to about 10:30 for practice/gig volumes. So, my F-100 actually sounds better with the G-Major in the loop. :)

As far as a controller, I don't know what your requirements are, but for me the G-Minor was too limiting for my taste. Since I could replicate the number of tones I used to get from my pedal board, I went with the Behringer FCB 1010, which gives me everything I was looking for and so much more.

Thanks for the info. As far as the controller, I'm just looking to ramp up and down through pre-programmed effects patches and use the tuner when needed, want to keep it very simple.

Dann'sTheMan

02-12-2006, 03:10 PM

Originally posted by Alchemist
Hey guys, I'm simplifying my rig effects wise and want to clean up the clutter. So I am just going simple rack mount. I was thinking just a G-Major and a Furman, then a G-Minor on the ground. I know the premise of the G-Major is to maintain the amps character. Would this be the ideal setup for my F-30. Thoughts and experiences are appreciated:)

Hi Alchemist,

Like hal9000 and Tommi Inkila, I use a G-Major in the F-series Loop (set at 90% Mix), and it makes the rig sound awesome in any environment from the bedroom to the stage. It's certainly more transparent than the old Zoom 9030 I used to run in the loop, and the FX I use most, Delay, Chorus and Reverb all sound great.

If all you want to do is sequence through patches, and access the (good) tuner, then I suspect the G-Minor will be fine. Check out the link in my sig to the G-Major thread, where you'll find lots of ideas to get the most out of your set-up. Tommi, Neil and I all run our rigs so that the F-series' amp channels are switched by the G-Major - in this way, selecting a patch on the G-Major also selects the desired amp channel.

One caveat to be mindful of is that the G-Major, and in particular the fascia wheels are not particularly robust. I keep mine in a rack case, and still one of them came off.

Big smiles,

Andy.

Gazz

02-12-2006, 06:39 PM

Hi guys , you may recall numerous posts and kind answers on this post regarding me using the new Zoom G2 in the loop of my F50 combo.

Well I was just about to give up on it when I thought I would re read the manual. Tucked away in the small print was a function in the control section to do with master volume.

Apparantly this will set the overall master volume of the unit ( for the life of power connection without switiching off) for ALL patches. Each patch has its own volume setting within it.

So I thought , hey wait a minute that means I can use the G2 for effects only in the loop attenuate the volume down for the situation ( either fron t room / small club/ large club / whatever) and not have set indivual volume settings for every patch with all the time it takes to get those right.

Remember the G2 has studio processing, can scroll through all the settings ( in practice I'd only use say 7 or 8 max) and is small
and cost £54 !! including the power supply.

I have to report it is absolutley fantastic ! I couldnt beliive it. When I tried it before I didnt have the amps master volume up high enough and the sound was sterile, but because of the help from the guys here I now understood the need to get the masters up, but needed the attenuation, I built a simple volume control so knew that worked, then I applied that using the G2 pedal and bingo - its absolutly amazing. I am so pleased that I had to tell you. Sorry to go on !

So to answer anyone who wants a simple set up get one !

(ps I dont work for Zoom !!!! )

Happy boogie'ing !!

Dann'sTheMan

02-13-2006, 01:36 AM

Originally posted by Gazz
Hi guys , you may recall numerous posts and kind answers on this post regarding me using the new Zoom G2 in the loop of my F50 combo.
<snip/>
Remember the G2 has studio processing, can scroll through all the settings ( in practice I'd only use say 7 or 8 max) and is small
and cost £54 !! including the power supply.

I have to report it is absolutley fantastic ! I couldnt beliive it. When I tried it before I didnt have the amps master volume up high enough and the sound was sterile, but because of the help from the guys here I now understood the need to get the masters up, but needed the attenuation, I built a simple volume control so knew that worked, then I applied that using the G2 pedal and bingo - its absolutly amazing. I am so pleased that I had to tell you. Sorry to go on !

So to answer anyone who wants a simple set up get one !

(ps I dont work for Zoom !!!! )

Happy boogie'ing !!

Very cool, Gazz - I've long been a fan of Zoom processing - their delays and modulation effects are top drawer! :thu:

Big smiles,

Andy.

Surfcaster

02-14-2006, 07:04 AM

I discovered a nice, chimey light gain setting on my F50 for the Les Paul I just recently got (using bridge p/up):

On the rhythm channel (channel 1)

Gain - 3 oclock with Bright pulled
Treble - 2:30
Mid - 11:00
Bass - 11:00
Reverb & Master set to taste.

The lead channel was just a little too dark to get the chime I was looking for and I was about to give up when I thought to give the rhythm channel a shot...it was just what I was looking for! One nice thing about the dual volume knobs on the Les Paul is that I can have the volume rolled back on the neck p/up and get a nice clean tone with the same amp settings, all with a flick of my pickup selector!! All my other guitars have a single volume, and at first I was a little unsure about having two volumes, but there are some advantages!

hal9000

02-14-2006, 07:37 AM

Originally posted by Surfcaster
I discovered a nice, chimey light gain setting on my F50 for the Les Paul I just recently got (using bridge p/up):

On the rhythm channel (channel 1)

Gain - 3 oclock with Bright pulled
Treble - 2:30
Mid - 11:00
Bass - 11:00
Reverb & Master set to taste.

The lead channel was just a little too dark to get the chime I was looking for and I was about to give up when I thought to give the rhythm channel a shot...it was just what I was looking for! One nice thing about the dual volume knobs on the Les Paul is that I can have the volume rolled back on the neck p/up and get a nice clean tone with the same amp settings, all with a flick of my pickup selector!! All my other guitars have a single volume, and at first I was a little unsure about having two volumes, but there are some advantages! http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y34/afraiddave/hal9000SurfcasterF-seriesChimeyLigh.jpg

Surfcaster

02-14-2006, 01:21 PM

Looks great, Hal9000! Thanks! :thu:

markmann

02-16-2006, 11:57 AM

Check out this amp... pretty sweet looking IMO. I got this from a thread about cosmetic alterations or something to that effect. The guy who posted this said he replaced the grill cloth himself and added the chickenhead knobs. The reason it interested me is because I've been thinking about replacing the grill cloth on my F50 with tan. I like the black with tan and I found a site that sells Mesa Boogie tan jute cloth. What do you guys think... good idea? Do you like it?
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c65/johnsonunit/Classic-Mesa.jpg

Tommi Inkila

02-16-2006, 01:14 PM

Originally posted by markmann
Do you like it?

I love it.

I've been dreaming having my F and new Mesa 4x12" trad-straight-cab in Tan.

Go for it.

Alchemist

02-16-2006, 01:41 PM

Wow that looks beautiful. I've actualy been toying with the idea of doing blonde/oxblood and white knobs on my F-30 to match my cab (see pic below). But I will eventualy buy another F-30 as a backup, so I figure its probably better and cheaper to just order that from the mesa custom shop with the cosmetics I want, and just keep this one as backup.

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a219/Alchemist88/gibsonmesafender.jpg

markmann

02-17-2006, 05:11 AM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Alchemist
[B]Wow that looks beautiful. I've actualy been toying with the idea of doing blonde/oxblood and white knobs on my F-30 to match my cab (see pic below). But I will eventualy buy another F-30 as a backup, so I figure its probably better and cheaper to just order that from the mesa custom shop with the cosmetics I want, and just keep this one as backup.[B][QUOTE]

In case you change your mind here's an excellent site that sells grillcloth, tolex and piping Here (http://www.vibroworld.com/parts/tech11.html) . I want to keep my F50 factory looking but I'm sure it would look sweet with piping and different knobs as well.

Yes, the blond/oxblood is one of my favorite color combo's and it would look great if your gear matched, not that it looks bad or anything because it doesn't... it would just have a more custom look.

Nice guitar by the way.

markmann

02-17-2006, 05:37 AM

This isn't a very good photo but this is what my amp & speakers look like now... a bit boring until the sound comes out :)

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c144/markaland/F503.jpg

hal9000

02-17-2006, 06:41 AM

Originally posted by markmann
This isn't a very good photo but this is what my amp & speakers look like now... a bit boring until the sound comes out :)

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c144/markaland/F503.jpg Markman, I can do a prototype of your proposed rig beforehand so you can get a good idea of what it will look like. Send me an email: neil@afraiddave.com. :)

Dann'sTheMan

02-17-2006, 07:16 AM

I've lusted after a tan grill for my F-50 for years - I think they look so classy with the black tolex. The white piping looked awesome too. I've also thought about putting cream/white chicken head knobs on, but I'd have to check there was enough clearance to dial everything. IIRC the guy with the sweet looking Recto simply puts up with the chicken heads fowling on each other...

markmann, please let us know how you get on. If it's easy to redo an F-series grill, I might consider this too. Thanks for the links to Mesa tolex (http://www.vibroworld.com/parts/tech11.html) and grill cloth (http://www.vibroworld.com/parts/tech10.html) suppliers. I might be interested in commissioning a closed back 2x12 that has widebody dimensions, and matches my F-50 combo's tolex and grill cloth. :cool: BTW, I think your stack looks awesome - are those 1x12 speaker cabs? open, semi or closed back?

Big smiles,

Andy.

Surfcaster

02-17-2006, 07:41 AM

I've built a couple of my own cabs and it's really not that hard to put on/replace grille cloth. With the F50, the grille cloth is just stapled to the edges of the grill. Just take out the screws, remove the grill, remove the staples (taking care to notice how they handled the corners so you don't bunch up the grille cloth and have troubles getting the grille back on). Then wrap the new grille cloth around it, staple it down, trim off the excess and voila!

It does look sharp...I may think about doing that myself...but I still have to tolex my 2x12 cab and should probably do that first!

markmann

02-17-2006, 09:04 AM

Originally posted by Dann'sTheMan
I've lusted after a tan grill for my F-50 for years - I think they look so classy with the black tolex. The white piping looked awesome too. I've also thought about putting cream/white chicken head knobs on, but I'd have to check there was enough clearance to dial everything. IIRC the guy with the sweet looking Recto simply puts up with the chicken heads fowling on each other...

markmann, please let us know how you get on. If it's easy to redo an F-series grill, I might consider this too. Thanks for the links to Mesa tolex (http://www.vibroworld.com/parts/tech11.html) and grill cloth (http://www.vibroworld.com/parts/tech10.html) suppliers. I might be interested in commissioning a closed back 2x12 that has widebody dimensions, and matches my F-50 combo's tolex and grill cloth. :cool: BTW, I think your stack looks awesome - are those 1x12 speaker cabs? open, semi or closed back?

Big smiles,

Andy. Thanks, Andy. Both cab's are 1x12 wide body open back with C90's. Interestingly, these cab's are leftovers from my previous stereo rig and were bought around 7 years ago. I was very pleased to find out that they matched the F50 head in size and finish and actually look like I bought them together. When I separate the two or aim them in different directions they really disperse well. One more advantage to the "stack" is that I can hear the top cab well so no need to use a stand for monitoring purposes. I personally think it's a handsome stack as is but so much gear is black that I'd like if it stood out a little.

I probably won't do the grill immediately due to my busy schedule but I will post results (and will take pic's of the process) when I do.

Mark

hal9000

02-17-2006, 09:17 AM

Here are some prototype designs with the Mesa tan grill, in order of modification. I also added a little spice to the last two designs. :)

Tan grill:
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y34/afraiddave/hal9000MesaF-50MiniStackTanGrillRev.jpg

Tan grill + white piping:
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y34/afraiddave/hal9000MesaF-50MiniStackTanGrillWhi.jpg

Tan grill + white piping + vintage white knobs (SWEET!):
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y34/afraiddave/hal9000MesaF-50TanGrillWhitePipeWhi.jpg

Tan grill + white piping + vintage white knobs (SWEET!):
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y34/afraiddave/hal9000MesaF-50HeadWhiteKnobsTanGri.jpg

Dann'sTheMan

02-17-2006, 09:34 AM

I am drooling, Neil. Wow! That looks good! I thought my GAS was cured... :p

Big smiles,

Andy.

markmann

02-17-2006, 09:36 AM

WOWIE!!!

I'm definitely doing it.

Neil, you are the man!

Tommi Inkila

02-17-2006, 09:40 AM

Neil, stop posting those pics... it's getting too expensive for me ;)

Tommi Inkila

02-17-2006, 09:43 AM

BTW, another reminder that I've been thinking to start a new side-business as a mastering engineer. Basicly, looking for some band/solo/demo stuff to work with :eek:

markmann

02-17-2006, 09:58 AM

This configuration is really stunning. I may have to go all the way after seeing this graphic. OK, I know where to get the cloth and piping but I need to find some tan knobs that will work...

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y34/afraiddave/hal9000MesaF-50TanGrillWhitePipeWhi.jpg

hal9000

02-17-2006, 10:03 AM

Originally posted by markmann
This configuration is really stunning. I may have to go all the way after seeing this graphic. OK, I know where to get the cloth and piping but I need to find some tan knobs that will work...

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y34/afraiddave/hal9000MesaF-50TanGrillWhitePipeWhi.jpg Barrel Knob-Cream Fender $3.
http://www.tubetoneamps.com/productpages/knobs/knobs.htm

After I put the designs together, I realized that the F-series uses old radio knobs, like the ones I posted above. So, these are just the other color version. I'm going to have to do this whole upgrade now that I know what it looks like. :) Man, I've induced my own GAS. I'll probably also throw in a blue jewel lamp for good measure.

Alchemist

02-19-2006, 12:32 PM

Originally posted by hal9000
Here are some prototype designs with the Mesa tan grill, in order of modification. I also added a little spice to the last two designs. :)

Tan grill:
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y34/afraiddave/hal9000MesaF-50MiniStackTanGrillRev.jpg

Tan grill + white piping:
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y34/afraiddave/hal9000MesaF-50MiniStackTanGrillWhi.jpg

Tan grill + white piping + vintage white knobs (SWEET!):
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y34/afraiddave/hal9000MesaF-50TanGrillWhitePipeWhi.jpg

Tan grill + white piping + vintage white knobs (SWEET!):
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y34/afraiddave/hal9000MesaF-50HeadWhiteKnobsTanGri.jpg

wow those look great, if you have some time to kill would you mind doing a similar thing for my current setup (supersonic cab plus black f-30 head), and then a (supersonic cab plus matching blonde/oxblood head with cream knobs?), would really appreacite it:)

hal9000

02-20-2006, 08:36 AM

Originally posted by Alchemist

wow those look great, if you have some time to kill would you mind doing a similar thing for my current setup (supersonic cab plus black f-30 head), and then a (supersonic cab plus matching blonde/oxblood head with cream knobs?), would really appreacite it:) Alchemist, here you go.

Your existing rig (Mesa F-30 + Fender Supersonic 4x12 Cab):

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y34/afraiddave/hal9000AlchemistRigF-30.jpg

Your rig with the F-30 retolexed with cream bronco, a new oxblood grill and vintage white knobs:

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y34/afraiddave/hal9000AlchemistCreamOxProtoRig.jpg

Another combination with cream tolex, a tan grill, and vintage white knobs:

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y34/afraiddave/hal9000AlchemistCreamTanProtoRig.jpg