Mesa F-series Lounge. Come on in and share your secrets. [Archive] - Page 4 - Harmony Central Musician Community Forums

Surfcaster

11-09-2005, 08:03 AM

Originally posted by hal9000
The speaker output of the combo is identical to the head, so you can use it however you like (Combo w/ ext cab, just ext cab, combo only etc.). I run my F-100 2x12 combo with a 2x12 Avatar cab and it rocks.

If you're going to audition an F-series amp, give my audition settings a try (sig) for a first pass of how to get some different sounds with the EQ.

+1 I sometimes run my F50 1x12 through a homemade 2x12 cab or run the stock speaker simultaneously with a homemade 1x12 cab as a micro-stack of sorts. You can also run it through a 4x12 if you want...just so long as you match up the impedance correctly (i.e., make sure your cab's impedance is equal to or greater than the output impedance.)

HockeyMetFan

11-09-2005, 10:02 AM

Went and tried both the F-50 and F-30 today for a good hour and a half, all I have to say is WOW! These things are amazing. I did like the 50 quite a bit better than the 30 though. I think I'm gonna spring for the 50 combo when I get the money and add a 2x12 cab to my setup in the future.

Also, thanks to hal9000 for the audition settings, they're an excellent starting point. All I had to do was bump the mids up a notch and the treble down a notch and I had the tone I was looking for.

Locky

11-09-2005, 05:58 PM

Thats exactly the rig I have. Right now I run an F50 wide-body 1x12 combo, with a Randall 2x12 underneath. The bass response is much more perrcusive with the cab. I too play with the treble backed off and the mids bumped up. It seems to tighten the bass a bit, and reduce ice picks. I am still learning about the clean channel after a year now. I can get a great glassy clean setting which is great for chords, or a thick bass setting for picking, but I'm still trying to find the and inbetween setting for glassy chord and rounded single notes.

You won't regret your purchase dude.

Surfcaster

11-10-2005, 07:58 AM

Last night I got home before the rest of the family and I used the time to play around with the MiniMass a little more. And I realized I should clarify that when I say cranking the MV didn't make a noticeable difference tonewise, I was thinking about when you've got the gain set around 11 oclock or higher. With the gain set low, you can definitely hear the power tubes breaking up as you crank the MV...and it's pretty sweet!!! Of course, the power tubes do the same thing even at higher gain levels, but it's almost as if the preamp tone is predominant over the power amp contribution, but then maybe I'm just not hearing it. I didn't have time to record any clips, but I'll try to get to that in the coming weeks, and that's the real test, when you can A/B the two side by side.

hal9000

11-11-2005, 10:20 AM

I did some recording last night and I wanted to share some clean clips of my strat and F-100 mic'ed with a single SM-57 axially aligned with the dust cap, but pointing towards the middle of the speaker cone (~30°). First here’s my rig for these two songs.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y34/afraiddave/hal9000F-100G-MajorStratRig.png

This is the setting on the clean channel for both songs:

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y34/afraiddave/hal9000sF-SeriesAuditionsettingsBCMR.jpg

F-100 Clean Clip: One Night's Sleep (http://www.soundclick.com/util/downloadSong.cfm?ID=3077676&key=E79C7508-C)

First up is a song from our demo called One Night's Sleep. This is just the Strat straight in to the F-100 with the settings above including reverb @ 12:00.

F-100 + G-Major Clean Clip: Haunting (http://www.soundclick.com/util/downloadSong.cfm?ID=3077669&key=E79C7508-C)

Next, is work in progress called Haunting where I used the G-major to give me a dynamic delay with tap tempo.

I hope you guys like the tunes. :)

Tommi Inkila

11-11-2005, 12:27 PM

Great clips Hal!

A really exact production of the F's clean channel. That is how the amp sounds to me :)

Surfcaster

11-11-2005, 01:22 PM

Yeah, hal...great clips!! I really like Haunting...very cool!!

jem7vwh

11-11-2005, 01:36 PM

Hi guys, what do you think of the F-30 or the Dual Recto Blue Angel 1x12 combo?

Im looking to get a new amp for christmas, and my mom is willing to put 1000 into it:thu: .

I saw both those amps at the store around here, and the F-30 is $999 CAD here and the Blue Angel is $1199.

Also, I've heard a bit about Nomads, anyone have any experiance with them?

VoodooChild24

11-11-2005, 01:48 PM

Awesome clips Neil! Gotta love that clean channel!

hal9000

11-11-2005, 02:20 PM

Originally posted by Tommi Inkila
Great clips Hal!

A really exact production of the F's clean channel. That is how the amp sounds to me :) Thanks Tommi! :) Your compliment means a lot to me based on your playing and recording skills.

hal9000

11-11-2005, 02:23 PM

Originally posted by Surfcaster
Yeah, hal...great clips!! I really like Haunting...very cool!! Thanks Surfcaster! :)

Yeah, I've recently written most of Haunting so I'm anxious to introduce the song to the band.

hal9000

11-11-2005, 02:24 PM

Originally posted by VoodooChild24
Awesome clips Neil! Gotta love that clean channel! Thanks Desi! :)
I definitely love the clean channel as I'm using it for about half of my band's songs.

hal9000

11-11-2005, 02:30 PM

Here's another clip using the same setup as above with this setting:

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y34/afraiddave/hal9000ModedMarshallToneSetting.jpg

F-100 Crunchy Clip: Strong Woman (http://www.soundclick.com/util/downloadSong.cfm?ID=3078769&key=E79C7508-C)

I'm using the strat's bridge humbucker for this one and you may recognize the tune since I posted a long time back with a POD 2.0 mix demo for my band. This time it's all F-100, sans full arrangement though. The bass EQ was on 9:00 for this one.

Dann'sTheMan

11-11-2005, 02:32 PM

Great work, Neil!

I loved the tones and the playing, and I was particularly impressed by the song-writing - some interesting progressions there. Would love to hear the completed mix. :) In the meantime thanks for sharing these awesome clips. :cool:

Big smiles,

Andy.

hal9000

11-11-2005, 02:40 PM

Originally posted by Dann'sTheMan
Great work, Neil!

I loved the tones and the playing, and I was particularly impressed by the song-writing - some interesting progressions there. Would love to hear the completed mix. :) In the meantime thanks for sharing these awesome clips. :cool:

Big smiles,

Andy. Thanks Andy! :) I always strive to write songs that are memorable so it's nice to hear that you liked the ideas. We'll see how the songs develop as the band digs in. I know my drummer already has a modified swing beat for Strong Woman, which really sounds cool.

BTW, I really love the G-Major and its ability to give me three channel operation. I've ordered the parts for my channel changing cable, so I guess I'll have to update my rig with all my new accoutrements. :D

Dann'sTheMan

11-12-2005, 02:22 AM

Originally posted by hal9000
Thanks Andy! :) I always strive to write songs that are memorable so it's nice to hear that you liked the ideas. We'll see how the songs develop as the band digs in. I know my drummer already has a modified swing beat for Strong Woman, which really sounds cool.

BTW, I really love the G-Major and its ability to give me three channel operation. I've ordered the parts for my channel changing cable, so I guess I'll have to update my rig with all my new accoutrements. :D

Hey Neil,

Yep, the three channel operation gets addictive fast - I used to run my rig like this with the old Zoom FX unit and the FCB1010, but now the G-Major makes things ridiculously flexible. :thu:

I think the production on all three clips was awesome. Did you do anything else to the recording at mixdown? Thanks for sharing the info about the mike placement - I think you're hitting the sweet spot. Tell me, did you use the same mike placement for the Strong Woman clip, and how far was the mike from the grill? :)

Big smiles,

Andy.

hal9000

11-12-2005, 06:05 AM

Originally posted by Dann'sTheMan

Hey Neil,

Yep, the three channel operation gets addictive fast - I used to run my rig like this with the old Zoom FX unit and the FCB1010, but now the G-Major makes things ridiculously flexible. :thu:

I think the production on all three clips was awesome. Did you do anything else to the recording at mixdown? Thanks for sharing the info about the mike placement - I think you're hitting the sweet spot. Tell me, did you use the same mike placement for the Strong Woman clip, and how far was the mike from the grill? :)

Big smiles,

Andy. Andy, thanks for compliment on the production. For all the tracks at mix down I used Cool Edit Pro's Classic SoftKnee compressor plug-in and normalized to 90%. For Strong Woman since I was running the bass at 9:00 it was pretty bright, so I added 3 dB @ 250 Hz and -1 dB @ 5 kHz. The other two tracks got +2 dB @ 100 Hz.

The Classic SoftKnee compressor plug-in has these properties:
Compress 5:1 above -10 dB
Compress 2.5:1 below -10 dB
Compress 1.5:1 below -24 dB
Expand 1.2: below -40 dB
Compensation Gain = -2dB

BTW, on the G-Major, if you set your patch of for the Contour channel to compensate for its higher level do you ever use the solo boost on that setting?

SuperStrat

11-12-2005, 06:10 AM

Looks like I'll be re-joining the brotherhood.:)

Has anyone seen schematics floating around?

Snax Panther

11-12-2005, 11:13 AM

Originally posted by SuperStrat
Looks like I'll be re-joining the brotherhood.:)

Has anyone seen schematics floating around? :thu:

GTM

11-14-2005, 07:24 AM

I replaced the stock Mesa 6L6's this weekend with JJ's. What a difference. I have been having a bit of a love/hate relationship with the F-50 over the last 5 months trying to dail in my tone. I found the red chann. a bit harsh with to much grainy breakup. It was good for some stuff, but I lost the SRV tone I had with my Nomad 45. The JJ's gave it back with then some! It's like I bought a new amp! I use a Digitech 2120 rack processor in the loop which brightens things up a bit (in a good way, like buffers). I bought the JJ's from Doug's Tubes, he gave me a matched set rated at 19 ma. He told me a lot of the JJ's are rated lower and would run cold in the F-50. It's working for me, I'm very happy with the sound now, no complaints, lots of thick, rich tone, creamy sustain. I would recommend them to anyone who's not completely happy with their F-50. BTY, I use a Hotplate. I find the F-50 gets a lot of it's good tones from the power tubes. I'll use the Hotplate at home or where ever I can't get the master volume at 9:00 or higher. Rememeber the JJ's have to be rated at or around 19 ma. Check out Doug's tubes, the guy will work with you.
http://www.dougstubes.com/

hal9000

11-14-2005, 08:24 AM

Fat Strat Dropped-D Riff: Dig (http://www.soundclick.com/util/downloadSong.cfm?ID=3089767&key=E79C7508-C)

Here's another recording from the same session called Dig I recorded using my Strat in dropped-D with the bridge HB into my F-100 with the contour channel set as follows:

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y34/afraiddave/hal9000HumbuckerMetalRhythmCH2Contour.jpg

Normally, I would use my H-1000 or Ravelle for this kind of tune, but the Strat has a certain bite to it due to the alder body that suits this grinding riff. Of course, when we play live I always have my #2 tuned to dropped-D (Ravelle) instead of my Strat.

presa_tito

11-14-2005, 03:44 PM

Hey guys, can you tell me the best tubes, in your opinions, that I should replace my F30 combo with. It sounds good as is, yet there's always room for improvement....Or would you suggest that I talk to doug's tubes and ask him? This could me more a matter of personal taste.

Tommi Inkila

11-15-2005, 07:43 AM

Originally posted by hal9000
Fat Strat Dropped-D Riff: Dig (http://www.soundclick.com/util/downloadSong.cfm?ID=3089767&key=E79C7508-C)

Here's another recording from the same session called Dig I recorded using my Strat in dropped-D with the bridge HB into my F-100 with the contour channel set as follows:

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y34/afraiddave/hal9000HumbuckerMetalRhythmCH2Contour.jpg

Normally, I would use my H-1000 or Ravelle for this kind of tune, but the Strat has a certain bite to it due to the alder body that suits this grinding riff. Of course, when we play live I always have my #2 tuned to dropped-D (Ravelle) instead of my Strat.
Nice, once again!

Perhaps there was something missing on the upper end... but that's more likely the fault of the recording preamp. What are you using for recording?

That setting is actually very close to my rhythm settings :cool:

GCDEF

11-15-2005, 07:46 AM

About the footswitch. Mine has a green light on when the clean channel is on and nothing when the gain channel is on. Is that normal?

Tommi Inkila

11-15-2005, 07:54 AM

Originally posted by presa_tito
Hey guys, can you tell me the best tubes, in your opinions, that I should replace my F30 combo with. It sounds good as is, yet there's always room for improvement....Or would you suggest that I talk to doug's tubes and ask him? This could me more a matter of personal taste.
There's some of my thoughts for preamp tubes on page 16 http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=885856&perpage=20&pagenumber=16

These are very subjective things of course.

At the Moment I'm having JJ on V1, Billington Gold on V2, Golden Dragon on V3 and Billington Gold V4.

The most difference making and critical slot is the V1. I ended up with JJ because it made the amp a little bit darker and tighter.

V2 and V4 are Billington Golds because they are nicely balanced in many ways. Raw and smooth etc. :)

V3 is Golden Dragon is very clean sounding and often used in HiFi-systems also. I wanted the reverb have that kind of qualities.

Power tube -wise I haven't been experimenting because on F50 the biasing comes in question and Mesas own tubes have worked out fine.

Because you don't have to bias an EL84-machine you can experiment with those tubes more easily. What I've heard, all those same brands as on preamp tubes are great options: JJ, Svetlana (Billington Gold), Golden Dragon etc.

hal9000

11-15-2005, 07:54 AM

Originally posted by Tommi Inkila

Nice, once again!

Perhaps there was something missing on the upper end... but that's more likely the fault of the recording preamp. What are you using for recording?

That setting is actually very close to my rhythm settings :cool: LOL, Thanks Tommi! :) I actually dropped the treble around 2 dB @ 5 kHz during mixdown because I thought the recording sounded bright. :freak: Of course here at home it sounds bass heavy. That's the way it goes I guess. Let me remix with the original treble level and I'll put it back up as ver 2.0.

BTW, here's the path (My singer's setup):

SM-57 (axially aligned with cone and rotated about 30° to the right)
Mackie 1402VLZ
Terratec ews88d (A/D converter up to 24bit @ 96kHz)

I've been thinking about snagging a tube-based mic-pre because I think I could get a more organic recorded sound but I have some research to do.

hal9000

11-15-2005, 07:56 AM

Originally posted by GCDEF
About the footswitch. Mine has a green light on when the clean channel is on and nothing when the gain channel is on. Is that normal? You are correct Sir! Next issue...

I guess Randall Smith didn't want to use a dual LED. :)

hal9000

11-15-2005, 09:23 AM

Dann'sTheMan

11-15-2005, 09:58 AM

Originally posted by hal9000
Andy, thanks for compliment on the production. For all the tracks at mix down I used Cool Edit Pro's Classic SoftKnee compressor plug-in and normalized to 90%. For Strong Woman since I was running the bass at 9:00 it was pretty bright, so I added 3 dB @ 250 Hz and -1 dB @ 5 kHz. The other two tracks got +2 dB @ 100 Hz.

The Classic SoftKnee compressor plug-in has these properties:
Compress 5:1 above -10 dB
Compress 2.5:1 below -10 dB
Compress 1.5:1 below -24 dB
Expand 1.2: below -40 dB
Compensation Gain = -2dB

BTW, on the G-Major, if you set your patch of for the Contour channel to compensate for its higher level do you ever use the solo boost on that setting?

Hello My Friend,

I hadn't forgotten about your question. With my old Zoom 9030, I used to compensate for differences in volume levels in the individual patches levels - but then this rig didn't have a Solo Boost function. More of a problem in the old rig was that when I selected a new patch, the pre-programmed individual patch level would be resent, which meant that I couldn't use the Volume Expression pedal as an overall Master Volume level (only at patch level).

With the G-Major, I've found that the Volume Expression pedal does not reset when I select a new patch, and I find this much more useful. Consequently, I tend to ride the volume expression pedal when I am playing live so that I slot into the stage mix at the right volume. I then use the G-Major's Solo boost feature for when I need to punch through (regardless of amp channel). Does this help explain my approach?

BTW, I liked the new clips that you posted - nice and thick. How far did you havd the mike from the grill in the clips you've recently posted? :)

Big smiles,

Andy.

hal9000

11-15-2005, 10:08 AM

Originally posted by Dann'sTheMan

Hello My Friend, <snip>
With the G-Major, I've found that the Volume Expression pedal does not reset when I select a new patch, and I find this much more useful. Consequently, I tend to ride the volume expression pedal when I am playing live so that I slot into the stage mix at the right volume. I then use the G-Major's Solo boost feature for when I need to punch through (regardless of amp channel). Does this help explain my approach?

BTW, I liked the new clips that you posted - nice and thick. How far did you havd the mike from the grill in the clips you've recently posted? :)

Big smiles,

Andy. Thanks Andy! :) I actually had the mic right on the grill per my usual setup. If I have some time tonight at practice I'd like to get some recordings with the Audio-Technica AT3035 condenser mic for more room sound.

Onto the G-Major: I finally got my FCB 1010. Man, that thing is Big Bertha! I like the layout though because I won't have to use the edge of my foot to select a patch like on the PODxt Live. :) Anyway, the real question I have is how would you equalize the Contour and OD channel's volumes, but also be able to use the Solo Boost for each. Since the solo boost raises the output level to 0 dB, any deviation in preset-in level will have a bigger impact on the output level. I'll probably just setup a Contour Rhythm and Contour Solo patch, but I'd like to know if what I'm proposing is feasible.

Tommi Inkila

11-16-2005, 06:02 AM

Originally posted by hal9000
All right Tommi, here's Dig version 2.0 (http://www.soundclick.com/util/downloadSong.cfm?ID=3093990&key=2F0FB10E-E)
Better I think :)

Different preamp did wonders to my recording quality. I can't be happier about my SPL Goldmike mk2. They are selling the older version dirt cheap nowadays. It's a steal if you can find one.

BTW, I tend to use one-knee compressor on guitars, 3 to 4 : 1 and threshold at -20dB.

Dann'sTheMan

11-16-2005, 03:33 PM

Originally posted by Dann'sTheMan
Brothers,

My hands are aching, because I have had such fun this evening with my F-50. I decided to spend some time trying to dial in some Robben Ford tones following on from the recent questions by kurt1981, my recent experiences with the Fuchs ODS100, and my growing experience with using my vintage Dynacomp as a boost for getting just the right flavour of drive. :cool:

I was using my PRS Custom 22, and the tones were so inspiring, I couldn't put the guitar down. I was playing along with Robben's "Talk To Your Daughter" album, and using my fingers for more of the right kind of snap. I thought a couple of times about stopping and trying to record some snippets, but tracks like "Revelation", "Born Under a Bad Sign" and "Getaway" were calling my name.

When I was finally about to hang up my axe, I thought of trying to dial in a more authentic slapback delay on the G-Major, (shared by the talented Scott Lerner many moons back), and it all kicked off again. Wow, I was so close to the tone coming off the CD, it was scary, and mind-blowing. Man, I love my F-50 (if you hadn't guessed) :p

Hopefully, I'll find the time to get around to recording something with this tone, but I simply had to share the buzz I'm feeling with the brotherhood. If you'd like to try out the settings that have had me so hyped, then here they are (remember to use your fingers, a humbucker mahogany/maple type guitar, and a compressor or possibly a clean booster):

http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/dannstheman/music/RobbenFordSettings.JPG
Use the Red channel (no Contour) for tones like "Revelation" and "Born Under a Bad Sign", and the Green channel for songs like "Getaway" :cool:

Big smiles,

Andy.

Hi Brothers,

I can't keep away from these Robben Ford settings, so I had fun this evening playing along with my fingers to the CD yet again. I wanted to record a short snippet. I've got a backing track for Born Under A Bad Sign, but for some reason, the CD is not being recognised by my laptop - so that track will have to wait. :p

Instead, I dug out a backing track for Revelation that the talented forumite, blackstratblues, once sent me. I've recorded this track before, so I won't bore you with a lengthy clip, but hopefully I've recorded enough to further highlight some of the gorgeous tones when the F-50 is boosted.

I tried to keep the recording as simple as can be, so unusually for me, I recorded the guitar track wet using my G-Major for slapback and reverb. The only other track is the stereo backing track. No production tweaking: no fx, compression or EQ. Just the two tracks played simultaneously.

I used my PRS Custom 22 on the bridge humbucker with the volume rolled back to 6. Another important technique was that I used the Mic Placement position highlighted by hal9000: positioning my SM57 in line with the dust cap/cone intersection but pointing towards the centre of the speaker. I really like the balanced tone that results. Anyway, enough details, let me know what you think of the clip:

http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/dannstheman/music2/Revelation_F_50BoostedTest.mp3

Big smiles,

Andy.

hal9000

11-17-2005, 06:44 AM

Originally posted by Dann'sTheMan

Hi Brothers, <snip>

Big smiles,

Andy. Andy, that's some smokin' tone you've got there. It's so smooth and open with a soucent of breakup that it's hard to believe an amp capable of such gain levels on the same channel no less :) can dish out the goods for on-the-edge sounds. Bravo, brother.

BTW, I’ve noticed that when I capture low-gain sounds I rarely reposition my mic from how you described, and in general, I find clean tones easier to capture than heavier stuff.

markmann

11-17-2005, 11:16 AM

Originally posted by Dann'sTheMan

Hi Brothers,

I can't keep away from these Robben Ford settings, so I had fun this evening playing along with my fingers to the CD yet again. I wanted to record a short snippet. I've got a backing track for Born Under A Bad Sign, but for some reason, the CD is not being recognised by my laptop - so that track will have to wait. :p

Instead, I dug out a backing track for Revelation that the talented forumite, blackstratblues, once sent me. I've recorded this track before, so I won't bore you with a lengthy clip, but hopefully I've recorded enough to further highlight some of the gorgeous tones when the F-50 is boosted.

I tried to keep the recording as simple as can be, so unusually for me, I recorded the guitar track wet using my G-Major for slapback and reverb. The only other track is the stereo backing track. No production tweaking: no fx, compression or EQ. Just the two tracks played simultaneously.

I used my PRS Custom 22 on the bridge humbucker with the volume rolled back to 6. Another important technique was that I used the Mic Placement position highlighted by hal9000: positioning my SM57 in line with the dust cap/cone intersection but pointing towards the centre of the speaker. I really like the balanced tone that results. Anyway, enough details, let me know what you think of the clip:

http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/dannstheman/music2/Revelation_F_50BoostedTest.mp3

Big smiles,

Andy. Hey Andy, thanks for the settings. I don't believe I've had my treble clocked back that far yet, it's surprising how much high-end you're getting especially considering that you're plucking with your fingers. The tone is very nice and interesting to me since that thick breakup tone is where I live. I'm also a Robbin Ford fan and I was able to get his tone easily from my last rig but I haven't attempted it yet with the F50. It's nice to know it's in there. Oh yeah... your playing isn't too shabby either :thu: Great stuff.

Mark

Tommi Inkila

11-17-2005, 01:20 PM

BTW, I’ve noticed that when I capture low-gain sounds I rarely reposition my mic from how you described, and in general, I find clean tones easier to capture than heavier stuff.
That was to case for me also when I was trying to cope with ART Tube MP, which is great for its price though. The Goldmike changed the world for me.

And Andy's clip...

It's so smooth and open with a soucent of breakup that it's hard to believe an amp capable of such gain levels on the same channel no less
What he said :)

Dann'sTheMan

11-18-2005, 09:38 AM

Thanks Guys! :)

Neil, the tone puts a huge grin on my face too, and as I'm sure you can appreciate, the tone in the room is even bigger, and it's making me physically smile just thinking about it. It blows me away too that an amp channel that can be sounding like a Recto one moment, can be be doing that Dumble-esque classic boutique 6L6 drive tone the next. :cool:

Mark, I know what you mean about backing off the treble that much seems counterintuitive. Of course, Boogies are famous/infamous for their interactive controls, but I must admit that my practical knowledge of how the F-series tone stack works has expanded enormously by experimenting with these kinds of settings. The key thing to remember is that all of these controls are passive. They don't simply work on a fixed range of frequencies, but rather work a bit like a tent pole - "push up" a particular frequency and the ones alongside get pulled up too. :)

Tommi, I'm intrigued with your Goldmike pre-amp - especially as you hinted that they were available on discount at the moment. What kind of price are they, and did it make an obvious difference when recording distortion tones with a SM-57?

Big smiles,

Andy.

Tommi Inkila

11-18-2005, 11:22 AM

Tommi, I'm intrigued with your Goldmike pre-amp - especially as you hinted that they were available on discount at the moment. What kind of price are they, and did it make an obvious difference when recording distortion tones with a SM-57?
They are selling the older model on www.thomann.de for 268.50 GBP (retour is 234.51 GBP with full warranty). To my knowledge they have changed the preamp a little bit to mk2, but all the essential is there like the Flair switch (nice and smooth presence boost). :)

The difference to me (and for our album project) was significant, I could say huge. My "F50 Sneak Peaker" is recorded with 50$ ART Tube MP and the rest, "Building The Mood" etc, are recorded with the goldmike. Although my first clip was nice, it took lots of hours to work out. With Goldmike the quality improvement was effortless and instant. There is a big difference in clarity and depth between those clips, I think.

Tommi Inkila

11-18-2005, 11:25 AM

BTW,

This site was quite hilarious, if you haven't seen it yet www.guitarshredshow.com :cool:

hal9000

11-23-2005, 08:59 AM

So, I've recently acquired a few new items for my rig:

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y34/afraiddave/hal9000InsaneRigRevD.jpg

Just kidding. :)

I actually got to use my new F-100 - G-Major - FCB 1010 setup last night and it was great. Programming the FCB 1010 wasn't too bad and my DIY channel switching cable works like a charm thanks to Andy's excellent info on the F-series footswitch functions. I've been able to consolidate some of my trickier switching configs into single button presses and overall I'm pleased with my new setup.

EDIT: I updated the super rig for better quality.

"sasquatch"

11-23-2005, 09:23 AM

hey guys,
i was wondering if i could run 6V6s in my F50. does anybody know? i am very curious about this as the od channel is a bassman tone stack and the clean is blackface. i like the od channel with gain low and master cranked (almost tweed, but not quite)and am wondering if i could get it (especially od channel) to sound like an old tweed deluxe on steroids.

:cool:

Dylan Walters

11-23-2005, 09:30 AM

Wow. An F-series thread, way cool. I've had my F-30 for almost a year now and I it's by far the best amp that I've owned to date. Is there anything special I should know if I plan on using a 2nd cab with this?

hal9000

11-23-2005, 11:12 AM

Originally posted by Dylan Walters
Wow. An F-series thread, way cool. I've had my F-30 for almost a year now and I it's by far the best amp that I've owned to date. Is there anything special I should know if I plan on using a 2nd cab with this? Match the combo speaker impedance (8 Ohms) with the extension cab, and plug each into a 4 Ohm jack, which puts the speakers in parallel.

Dann'sTheMan

11-24-2005, 04:56 AM

Originally posted by hal9000
So, I've recently acquired a few new items for my rig:

[IMG]Just kidding. :)

I actually got to use my new F-100 - G-Major - FCB 1010 setup last night and it was great. Programming the FCB 1010 wasn't too bad and my DIY channel switching cable works like a charm thanks to Andy's excellent info on the F-series footswitch functions. I've been able to consolidate some of my trickier switching configs into single button presses and overall I'm pleased with my new setup.

Awesome! and I'm honoured that my two main guitars made the cut into your virtual super-rig.

I'm glad you got your single footstomp approach for amp channel and FX switching implemented - I always knew you would handle any technical hurdles, but I hope you agree that it's a pretty straightforward project - not much more difficult than wiring a plug. :cool: BTW, did you spot my response to you wrt setting levels in the G-Major thread? :)

Big smiles,

Andy.

Tommi Inkila

11-24-2005, 04:13 PM

Originally posted by doggage5050
hey guys,
i was wondering if i could run 6V6s in my F50. does anybody know? i am very curious about this as the od channel is a bassman tone stack and the clean is blackface. i like the od channel with gain low and master cranked (almost tweed, but not quite)and am wondering if i could get it (especially od channel) to sound like an old tweed deluxe on steroids.

:cool:
First I'd like to say that I don't have any experience on them.

In theory 6V6 and 6L6 can be swapped since their plate voltages aren't so far apart from each other. Still, some modding to the amp is recommended.

This is something you should consult from an experienced and skilled technician.

Tommi Inkila

11-25-2005, 04:26 AM

It's finally ready brothers!!!

I made a thread for it http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1093794

:love:

Ripping Rudy

11-27-2005, 08:19 PM

Hi guys,

I'll be getting my F-100 head in the next couple days. I tried one out at my local music store and ran it through a Mesa 2x12 cab w/ vintage 30's. The cab I currently use w/ my 5150 II is a Peavey Triple X cab with 2x12 "XXX" speakers. I wonder what kind of speaker cabs you guys use with your heads and what you think of them.
I guess the only way I can test my XXX cab against the Mesa would be to take my XXX to the store and run them side by side. As you guys know, you don't want to spend money if you don't have to!!!

Thanks

hal9000

11-28-2005, 06:06 AM

Originally posted by Ripping Rudy
Hi guys,

I'll be getting my F-100 head in the next couple days. I tried one out at my local music store and ran it through a Mesa 2x12 cab w/ vintage 30's. The cab I currently use w/ my 5150 II is a Peavey Triple X cab with 2x12 "XXX" speakers. I wonder what kind of speaker cabs you guys use with your heads and what you think of them.
I guess the only way I can test my XXX cab against the Mesa would be to take my XXX to the store and run them side by side. As you guys know, you don't want to spend money if you don't have to!!!

Thanks Awesome Rudy! I hope you'll get as much enjoyment out your F-100 as I've gotten out of mine.

On the subject of speaker cabs, I'm a big fan of the Mesa 3/4 tuned-back cab since it is a nice compromise between the swirling 3D sounds of a totally open back and the tight sucker-punch bass of a closed-back cab. Of course, my F-100 2x12 combo is 3/4 tuned-back. :) I also run an Avatar 2x12 closed-back with Vintage 30s which adds a nice amount of low end to the sound. So, your choice of open, semi-open, or closed really depends on what style you favor most. If metal is your poison, you'll probably want a closed-back cab. On the other hand, if you play clean mostly, open-back is nice to have. Finally, if you're like me and play clean to mean and everything in-between, a combination cab (like the 3/4 tuned-back) may be the best fit. While we're at it, I'd like to recommend you look at www.avatarspeakers.com for your cab since IMO they have the best deals in the industry with solid build quality, great tones, and tons of options.

markmann

11-28-2005, 06:28 AM

Surfcaster

11-28-2005, 01:55 PM

Originally posted by Ripping Rudy
Hi guys,

I'll be getting my F-100 head in the next couple days. I tried one out at my local music store and ran it through a Mesa 2x12 cab w/ vintage 30's. The cab I currently use w/ my 5150 II is a Peavey Triple X cab with 2x12 "XXX" speakers. I wonder what kind of speaker cabs you guys use with your heads and what you think of them.
I guess the only way I can test my XXX cab against the Mesa would be to take my XXX to the store and run them side by side. As you guys know, you don't want to spend money if you don't have to!!!

Thanks

I'll second the tip of the hat to Avatar. I have always built my own cabs, but unless you enjoy the build (which I do) you can hardly build one for the price you can buy one of theirs...especially if you get one of their "Special" cabs. Also, their prices on raw frame speakers are hard to beat...especially the Hellatones, which are just broken in Celestions (V30 and G12H30). I got a Hellatone 30 for $40 less than you can get the G12H30 from AMS!! And it's the same speaker, just broken in. In fact, I peeled off the Hellatone sticker and the G12H30 sticker was there underneath it!

Having said that, I don't think the G12H30 is a good match for the F-Series...too much high end. Mesa's have kind of a fizzy top end to begin with, and together with this speaker it's just too much. Well, that's for high gain. I actually like my 2x12 cab with the F-50 when playing clean (it's stocked with one G12H30 and one V30). But for high gain, I prefer the C90 that came in my 1x12 combo. It reins in the highs and it's also got more bottom end than the V30. And while the V30 isn't bad by itself, I still think I prefer the C90 to it. I'd love to try a G12T75 once with the F50...anyone here tried it?

VoodooChild24

11-28-2005, 05:33 PM

Ripping Rudy

11-28-2005, 07:39 PM

Originally posted by Surfcaster

I'll second the tip of the hat to Avatar. I have always built my own cabs, but unless you enjoy the build (which I do) you can hardly build one for the price you can buy one of theirs...especially if you get one of their "Special" cabs. Also, their prices on raw frame speakers are hard to beat...especially the Hellatones, which are just broken in Celestions (V30 and G12H30). I got a Hellatone 30 for $40 less than you can get the G12H30 from AMS!! And it's the same speaker, just broken in. In fact, I peeled off the Hellatone sticker and the G12H30 sticker was there underneath it!

Having said that, I don't think the G12H30 is a good match for the F-Series...too much high end. Mesa's have kind of a fizzy top end to begin with, and together with this speaker it's just too much. Well, that's for high gain. I actually like my 2x12 cab with the F-50 when playing clean (it's stocked with one G12H30 and one V30). But for high gain, I prefer the C90 that came in my 1x12 combo. It reins in the highs and it's also got more bottom end than the V30. And while the V30 isn't bad by itself, I still think I prefer the C90 to it. I'd love to try a G12T75 once with the F50...anyone here tried it?

I'll be trying the G12T75 with it!!! I've had the same Marshall 4x12 1960 cab since 1988!!! haha I'll let you know how it sounds.

Surfcaster

11-29-2005, 07:18 AM

Cool...I'm very interested in knowing. I have an empty 1x12 cab currently. The V30 that used to be in it is in the 2x12 with the G12H30. I actually built the 2x12 to go with a boutique amp I'm having built for me...a single-ended amp with a plexi tone stack...(I've been waiting for this amp for months and I think he's getting close to being done...I hope!!) Anyway, after I try the 2x12 with the new amp, I'll have a better sense of what I want in that...if I leave it as it is I was thinking if I got a G12T75 for the 1x12 I'd be rounded out! Besides, he says this amp will get into JCM800 territory, and with a clean boost he says it could do pretty much anything a JCM800 does, and if that's true, it would be really great to have both the G12T75 and a V30...and if it sounds good with the F50, all the better!!

Ripping Rudy

11-29-2005, 08:09 AM

People always bag on the 12-T75 speakers but they sound great to me. If you want to see how the speaker really sounds you have to bend down and put your ear in front of it!! It sounds totally different when it's 2ft off the ground and your ears are at 5.5ft!! The mic hears what's coming out of the speakers... It's a weird adjustment to make sometimes.

Surfcaster

11-29-2005, 12:39 PM

Originally posted by Ripping Rudy
People always bag on the 12-T75 speakers but they sound great to me. If you want to see how the speaker really sounds you have to bend down and put your ear in front of it!! It sounds totally different when it's 2ft off the ground and your ears are at 5.5ft!! The mic hears what's coming out of the speakers... It's a weird adjustment to make sometimes.

Yeah...that's why I always try to have my speakers pointing directly at my face if possible...either on a stand of some sort or tilted back against something.

Tommi Inkila

12-01-2005, 03:41 AM

Hello!

Just dropped in to distract a little bit...

Here's a really good article about mastering:

www.prorec.com/prorec/articles.nsf/articles/8A133F52D0FD71AB86256C2E005DAF1C

Mostly I brought this up, because we've had some complaints about the volume levels and a little bit wimpy sounds of our upcoming album. Well, here's my reply to them :thu:

TURN IT UP! (The Simpsons THX intro)

Tommi Inkila

12-01-2005, 11:44 AM

Brothers!

I hope you could go and write something to our backstage on our website. It could be that some A&R guy goes and checks out our site someday... yes, this is shameless advertising, checkout our trailer if you haven't yet :wave:

Ripping Rudy

12-01-2005, 11:58 AM

Ok, just got my F-100 head today via Canada Post all the way from Knoxtville TN. Unpacked it and it was mint just like the man said - Plugged it in and "holy cow" it had a huge "hummmmm" going on. Like it was plugged into the same outlet as a flouresnt light. The hum has calmed down a lot in the last couple hours (maybe the amp was cold?). Do any of you guys notice a little "buzzz" coming out of the speakers when you aren't playing? Besides this, the amp fucking smokes!! I can't belive how much the EQ can shape the sound - It's unreal.

Surfcaster

12-01-2005, 12:34 PM

My F50 makes some noise, but not excessive unless I really crank the gain. I remember when I first got it, I thought the clean channel was actually noisier than the lead channel. But now I don't think about it...don't know whether that means I've just gotten used to it, or if it doesn't make as much noise anymore. But what I remember was more of a white noise sound, not a hum. I'd say if it continues, you may want to check your tubes...make sure they are all intact (no cracks, etc) and that they are all firmly in their sockets (they could have been damaged or knocked loose in shipping). If all that looks okay and the hum is still there, you may need to get it looked at.

But I'm glad to hear you're happy with it tonewise!

Ripping Rudy

12-01-2005, 12:36 PM

It hummed worse when I first plugged it in - After an hour or so the hum was there but less. I totally changed out the tubes so there is no tube issues. I'm thinking that I'm just used to the noise my 5150 II made - This is just a "new" noise so I'm probably just being anal sans lube.

markmann

12-02-2005, 09:00 AM

Originally posted by Ripping Rudy
It hummed worse when I first plugged it in - After an hour or so the hum was there but less. I totally changed out the tubes so there is no tube issues. I'm thinking that I'm just used to the noise my 5150 II made - This is just a "new" noise so I'm probably just being anal sans lube. My F50 has the typical noise of a tube amp. I've actually A-B'd it against several other 50 watt tube amp's at similar settings and found that although the noise was generally different (hiss, buzz, frequency, etc) the level was about the same. The F50 noise was less annoying than some which is not bad considering the high gain nature. One thing you should check is to make sure you have no ground issue. I went through this twice recently where the cord of an amp had been compromised and was not grounding properly thus causing a noticable hum.

SuperStrat

12-02-2005, 09:08 AM

Originally posted by Ripping Rudy
Ok, just got my F-100 head today via Canada Post all the way from Knoxtville TN. Unpacked it and it was mint just like the man said - Plugged it in and "holy cow" it had a huge "hummmmm" going on. Like it was plugged into the same outlet as a flouresnt light. The hum has calmed down a lot in the last couple hours (maybe the amp was cold?). Do any of you guys notice a little "buzzz" coming out of the speakers when you aren't playing? Besides this, the amp fucking smokes!! I can't belive how much the EQ can shape the sound - It's unreal.

I read somewhere that Mesa had an issue with power caps in early units that they shipped. I'd call them with your serial number and see if they can help you.

hal9000

12-02-2005, 09:14 AM

Originally posted by SuperStrat

I read somewhere that Mesa had an issue with power caps in early units that they shipped. I'd call them with your serial number and see if they can help you. That was on the F-30 I believe, yes?

SuperStrat

12-02-2005, 09:42 AM

Originally posted by hal9000
That was on the F-30 I believe, yes?

It may have been... that's what I had. It's probably still worth a call to Mesa..........

Ripping Rudy

12-02-2005, 10:25 AM

Well, the hum is totally gone - It just makes regular amp noise now. haha It must have been the cold - or a bad tube.
I took it to a jam session yesterday and the guys loved the tone. The drummer kept saying 'the sound is so clean and clear'.
It's weird but I found that I used way more triads and single notes instead of power chords or full chords. The quality of the sound is so good that you need less notes to get what you're after. It's kind of a mind-fuck using this amp after the 5150 - Which is awesome too but totally different.
You guys probably already do this but my trick is to set channel 1 to a really nice, totally clean sound. Then, if I want , I kick in the boss super overdrive to get a slightly overdriven sound (think SRV). I can also use the OD pedal as a boost when using channel 2 (for leads). This basically makes this a 4 channel amp!!
Now all I need is the matching Recto 2x12 w/ vintage 30's....

strungup

12-03-2005, 09:43 AM

Hey Guys,
I had a f-50 head that I loved, but could not get the crunch tone out of it that I wanted. I loved the clean and the lead tone was perfect for me, but I got a bad case of the grass is greener. So I sold me f-50 head and bought an amp that had a better crunch.:cry: Don't get me wrong I like my new amp, but have missed the mesa ever since. Fast forward to last Thursday. My band played in a local deal here held by local music stores and clubs to get people back out in clubs hearing music. They had a drop after a new no smoking law was past. The music stores supplied the gear all we did is show up with our guitars, and if we wanted a special pedal or effect we brought it if not they had effects for us as well. Guess what amps were supplied for the guitarist. F-50 combo's. When we got on stage the guy running it asked what amp we normally played and what kind of music we were doing. He dialed in the amps for everybody to give you a head start closer to our own sounds. I heard eight bands including our own before I left. Those f-50 combo's sounded great for every style of music playing, and the whole spectrum was covered. Hell there was even a band that were using grunge pedals through the clean channel that still sounded decent. To make a long story short if its not to late I am going to have to get another f-50 this time the combo. I usually don't buy gear that I have had and sold, but the f-50 was the only amp I have ever really missed and playing in it again has made me realize how much I really did miss it.

Ripping Rudy

12-03-2005, 12:44 PM

They're "tweaker" amps for sure!! The amount of different sounds you can dial in is really over the top. I've never had an amp like it.

jem7vwh

12-04-2005, 07:09 AM

Does anyone know how much more the F50 weighs than the F30, and how much bulkier it is?

I'm planning on getting one, and is the F50 better at metal than the F30, since it has 6l6 tubes?

jem7vwh

12-04-2005, 09:28 AM

bump

Tommi Inkila

12-04-2005, 12:08 PM

Originally posted by jem7vwh
Does anyone know how much more the F50 weighs than the F30, and how much bulkier it is?

I'm planning on getting one, and is the F50 better at metal than the F30, since it has 6l6 tubes?
EDIT: I thought the info is here http://www.mesaboogie.com/Product_Info/F-Series/F-series.html ... I'd say F50 is slightly heavier, but not much.

It's hard to say which one suits better for metal... in short, F30 has more bite than F50 which has probably more open sound. It depends on your tastes.

You can get quite good picture of F50's metal sound from the clips on the first page of this topic or from my bands new album trailer (link on my sig) :thu:

jem7vwh

12-04-2005, 12:12 PM

Originally posted by Tommi Inkila

Here's all the info about weight and size http://www.mesaboogie.com/Product_Info/F-Series/F-series.html ...

It's hard to say which one suits better for metal... in short, F30 has more bite than F50 which has probably more open sound. It depends on your tastes.

You can get quite good picture of F50's metal sound from the clips on the first page of this topic or from my bands new album trailer (link on my sig) :thu:

Theres nothing about dimentions and weight there that I can see..

Tommi Inkila

12-04-2005, 12:15 PM

Originally posted by jem7vwh

Theres nothing about dimentions and weight there that I can see..
You're correct... I noticed that 30 seconds ago :) ... anyway... I have a feeling that the chassis of F30 about 4 inches shorter and it weights slightly less than the F50.

EDIT:

F30 - Short Chassis Head (Width 18-3/4 inches)

F50 - Medium Head (Width 22 ½ inches)

Surfcaster

12-05-2005, 12:01 PM

If you look for a used one, you may be able to find one of the early F50s that's not a widebody. That's what I've got. As for weight, I wouldn't think they're much different. As for current production models, if the F50 is any heavier, it's probably mostly due to the wide body cab. Mine (not a widebody) weighs in right around 50lbs, if memory serves me correctly.

Dann'sTheMan

12-05-2005, 04:00 PM

According to the review by UK Guitarist magazine (http://www.mesaboogie.com/Reviews/guitarist-F-50/GuitarF-50.pdf), the F-50 widebody combo weighs in at 50lbs/25kg. :)

Big smiles,

Andy.

transred

12-05-2005, 04:20 PM

Hey, here is a serious question for you guys who live in apartment: is F30 a bit too loud for home-playing?

jem7vwh

12-05-2005, 04:42 PM

Originally posted by transred
Hey, here is a serious question for you guys who live in apartment: is F30 a bit too loud for home-playing?

+1

musicdog400

12-05-2005, 05:01 PM

I think my F-50 requires an attenuator for my condo. Otherwise I can't get it up to 2 or 3 where it sounds better.

Dann'sTheMan

12-05-2005, 05:05 PM

Originally posted by transred
Hey, here is a serious question for you guys who live in apartment: is F30 a bit too loud for home-playing?

I use my G-Major with my F-50 to attenuate the levels in the loop down to appartment volumes. The voicing of the F-series is very much influenced by its pre-amp design, and I've found that working the pre-amp section hard, and then attenuating in the loop maximises tone.

I suspect this method would work well with the F-30 too. With my rig, I am thrilled by its tone at all volume levels, from bedroom to outdoor gigs. :)

The other method of F-series volume control is to use an attenuator like a THD Hotplate or Weber Mass. There are owners who use this approach, owners that use the attenuate-in-the-loop trick that I just described, and a few brothers (hal9000 and musicdog400 come to mind) that have tried both methods. :thu:

Big smiles,

Andy.

transred

12-05-2005, 05:05 PM

Originally posted by musicdog400
I think my F-50 requires an attenuator for my condo. Otherwise I can't get it up to 2 or 3 where it sounds better.
uh, i assume F50 is much louder than F30...anyways, what attenuator do you use? something like a Hotplate?

transred

12-05-2005, 05:19 PM

Originally posted by Dann'sTheMan

I use my G-Major with my F-50 to attenuate the levels in the loop down to appartment volumes. The voicing of the F-series is very much influenced by its pre-amp design, and I've found that working the pre-amp section hard, and then attenuating in the loop maximises tone.

I suspect this method would work well with the F-30 too. With my rig, I am thrilled by its tone at all volume levels, from bedroom to outdoor gigs. :)

The other method of F-series volume control is to use an attenuator like a THD Hotplate or Weber Mass. There are owners who use this approach, owners that use the attenuate-in-the-loop trick that I just described, and a few brothers (hal9000 and musicdog400 come to mind) that have tried both methods. :thu:

Big smiles,

Andy.
Hey, buddy, thank you so much for such a detailed instruction, you are the man :D ,
I love the Mesa sound, and I'm considering to buy a F30 in Xmas, but the volume is kind of the only problem that bothers me. I dont wanna play at a extremly low volume in expanse of losing the quality of the sounding, and i wouldn't like to deal with the complaints either...:(

musicdog400

12-05-2005, 05:25 PM

I should add that another acceptable solution is like was previously posted, put a volume reducing device in the loop (in my case a digital reverb).

For metal stuff at low volumes, without the attenuator, if I use an EQ in the loop to roll of the highs, I get a sound that I like.

Surfcaster

12-06-2005, 09:55 AM

Originally posted by transred

uh, i assume F50 is much louder than F30...anyways, what attenuator do you use? something like a Hotplate?

Actually, no, there is very little volume difference between these two amps. The purpose of having both the F30 and the F50 is that some people prefer the EL84 power tubes and Vintage 30 speaker that come in the F30, and some prefer the 6L6 power tubes and Black Shadow C90 speaker that come in the F50...it's a tone difference more than a power/volume difference. The volume difference between a 30W and 50W amp is negligible. With both fully cranked, the 30W would probably be about 85% as loud as the F50. So don't choose one based on volume, but rather based on features and your personal tone preference. If possible, try out both. I was planning to buy an F30, but upon trying them out, I ended up with the F50. And others preferred the F30 for their own reasons.

As far as using them in an apartment, if it was me, I'd have to have an attenuator like a HotPlate or Weber MiniMass (which I do have, BTW, and considering it's about a third the cost of a Hotplate, heartily recommend) or a volume reducing device in the effects loop. In order to get good tones from either amp, you'll need to have the master up high enough that your neighbors probably won't appreciate. (mind you, that's with the master set at at least 9:00 o clock, 9:30 is actually better, so it's still merely a fraction of the output the amp has on tap...and even then it's really too loud for my wife, at least for more than a few minutes...thus the MiniMass. But lower than that and it's really not worth even turning the thing on).

"sasquatch"

12-06-2005, 11:00 AM

basically, i just crank it and watch the women and children flee for the hills :D . i love the sound of mine at low volumes, but man, when you open her up awesome! i have used an EQ in the loop, and it is pretty good, but there's just something missing. the more you open it up, the more important (and functional) the tone controls become.

Surfcaster

12-06-2005, 01:24 PM

Originally posted by doggage5050
basically, i just crank it and watch the women and children flee for the hills :D

Makes me think of that Iron Maiden song Run For the Hills. I was never a huge Iron Maiden fan, but a friend had the tape and that song rocked!!

Surfcaster

12-06-2005, 03:23 PM

I've had a custom tube amp on order for about 8 months and I finally got it this past weekend. It's a little single-ended single channel amp with a Plexi tone stack tweaked to have a JCM800 vibe, only with less gain. My initial impressions are that this is truly an awesome amp...a little tone monster that runs I'm guessing 11-15W with an EL34 or 6L6. The nice thing about it is you can totally crank the thing without losing your hearing...still too loud for the wife for anything more than a few minutes, but fun nonetheless. I'd probably rate it as a medium gain amp, but with my Zoom Power Drive in front of it as a clean boost, it will easily give me those 80's hard rock tones I'm so fond of. And even with the gain cranked, rolling back on the volume gives a wonderful clean tone. I think this guy has nailed that early Marshall sound with this amp! Unfortunately it developed a problem and started blowing fuses late Sunday night, so I had to send it back to him today to figure out what's going on...I'm a little sad! :(

I realize this is an F-series thread, so let's get back to topic here. Since I had to send this little gal back I was trying to get the F50 to approximate it and was impressed with how close I could get...basically using hal9000's vintage high gain setting. It's really very close if I tweak the gain just so. And I discovered that the F50 is really very sensitive at that setting. There's an amazing amount of gain control in just your picking technique...light picking produces essentially clean tones...dig into it for more gain (works great for Hells Bells!). Of course, guitar volume will do the same thing, but it's really very cool to be able to do it just with picking dynamics. And while I love the higher gain settings of the F50, you do lose some of it's sensitivity at those levels. Besides, if I kicked in the Zoom Power Drive I could get the higher gain sounds. So there's another decent way to turn the F50 into a 3-channel amp.

"sasquatch"

12-06-2005, 03:36 PM

Originally posted by Surfcaster

Makes me think of that Iron Maiden song Run For the Hills. I was never a huge Iron Maiden fan, but a friend had the tape and that song rocked!!

yeah, that's the feel i was trying to convey....lol.....

Dann'sTheMan

12-06-2005, 03:57 PM

What's scary is that I know that you really do crank your amp, Adam! :p I remember the time you first introduced me to those awesome pumped up mids "unconventional" settings, and you revealed that you ran your master volume at 1 o'clock UNATTENUATED. :eek: It blew my mind, but hey, you rock, doggage5050! :cool:

Big smiles,

Andy.

hal9000

12-07-2005, 06:33 AM

Originally posted by Surfcaster
<snippy snip>

I realize this is an F-series thread, so let's get back to topic here. Since I had to send this little gal back I was trying to get the F50 to approximate it and was impressed with how close I could get...basically using hal9000's vintage high gain setting. It's really very close if I tweak the gain just so. And I discovered that the F50 is really very sensitive at that setting. There's an amazing amount of gain control in just your picking technique...light picking produces essentially clean tones...dig into it for more gain (works great for Hells Bells!). Of course, guitar volume will do the same thing, but it's really very cool to be able to do it just with picking dynamics. And while I love the higher gain settings of the F50, you do lose some of it's sensitivity at those levels. Besides, if I kicked in the Zoom Power Drive I could get the higher gain sounds. So there's another decent way to turn the F50 into a 3-channel amp. Rock on man! I'm glad the setting was useful to you. Also check out Andy's excellent mod'ed Marshall setting:

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y34/afraiddave/hal9000AndysModedMarshallTone.jpg

It's funny that you mentioned Hell's Bells, because I almost always play AC/DC when I warm up on the vintage high-gain setting. It's so clear and open and the amp gives up the goods when you dig in, which is just plain fun.

markmann

12-07-2005, 08:45 AM

Originally posted by transred

uh, i assume F50 is much louder than F30...anyways, what attenuator do you use? something like a Hotplate? There sure is a lot of buzz about attenuators these days and for good reason. I think in the past it was more popular to buy a small amp like a Champ for recording and practice and use the higher wattage for gigs. At least that was my experience, but with an attenuator you can have all the benifits of the larger amp at low volume.

I have used attenuation in the loop as well as with a Hotplate. In the loop I initially used a multi-effect unit's output control to lower the volume which allowed me to keep the F50 master above the all important 9 o'clock level. When I decided to switch from multi-effector to stomp boxes I made a little volume control device to use in the loop that you can read about on page 5 and 6 of this thread. Both units worked well for attenuating volume but I couldn't get the tone I was after at bedroom level.

After months of playing with the loop attenuator I bought a Hotplate off Ebay. The Hotplate works very good and allows me to achieve acceptable tone at very low levels... not recording quality but better than I was getting with volume attenuation in the loop. I can't compare it to other attenuators but it has nice features like tone switches that allow you to compensate for loss of lows like a loudness control on a stereo. Another is the fact that you can use it as a dummy load so that you can get a cranked tone with the speaker completely off. I actually use the Hotplate as my volume control now, I keep my master at 10 o'clock and use the attenuation control to raise or lower my volume.

GCDEF

12-07-2005, 09:03 AM

Originally posted by transred

uh, i assume F50 is much louder than F30...anyways, what attenuator do you use? something like a Hotplate?

I wouldn't expect a substantial volume difference between the 30 and 50.

I use a Weber Minimass with my F-50. It works extremely well.

"sasquatch"

12-07-2005, 09:50 AM

Originally posted by Dann'sTheMan
What's scary is that I know that you really do crank your amp, Adam! :p I remember the time you first introduced me to those awesome pumped up mids "unconventional" settings, and you revealed that you ran your master volume at 1 o'clock UNATTENUATED. :eek: It blew my mind, but hey, you rock, doggage5050! :cool:

Big smiles,

Andy.

:wave:hey, you remembered! of course, how couldn't you? i probably caused you some permanent hearing damage ..:p ..lol.. it was worth it though, right?

yeah, i still like the pumped mids and the gain around 9:00 with master on up there. there's something about it once you get it up past like 10:30 or so. it sits SO FAT in a band mix; nice and meaty. with the gain around 9:00, i can get a great lead volume boost from in FRONT of the amp, instead of in the loop. OR at those lower gain settings the contour channel works as a good boost too. :cool:

Surfcaster

12-07-2005, 10:23 AM

Originally posted by markmann
After months of playing with the loop attenuator I bought a Hotplate off Ebay. The Hotplate works very good and allows me to achieve acceptable tone at very low levels... not recording quality but better than I was getting with volume attenuation in the loop. I can't compare it to other attenuators but it has nice features like tone switches that allow you to compensate for loss of lows like a loudness control on a stereo. Another is the fact that you can use it as a dummy load so that you can get a cranked tone with the speaker completely off. I actually use the Hotplate as my volume control now, I keep my master at 10 o'clock and use the attenuation control to raise or lower my volume.

Hey, does the HotPlate completely mute the speaker when it's maxed out? The MiniMass does have a little bleed through when it's maxed (when I'm using the line out into my mixer). With the master at 12:00 or higher, it's loud enough that I worry I'll wake my sleeping daughter. I could just be paranoid...it's really hard to tell how loud the amp really is when everything else in the house is dead quiet, but it would be nice if it completely silenced the speaker.

hal9000

12-07-2005, 10:30 AM

Originally posted by Surfcaster

Hey, does the HotPlate completely mute the speaker when it's maxed out? The MiniMass does have a little bleed through when it's maxed (when I'm using the line out into my mixer). With the master at 12:00 or higher, it's loud enough that I worry I'll wake my sleeping daughter. I could just be paranoid...it's really hard to tell how loud the amp really is when everything else in the house is dead quiet, but it would be nice if it completely silenced the speaker. Yes, the Hot Plate mutes the output, in fact all the power goes to a load which completely disconnects the speaker.

SuperStrat

12-10-2005, 02:04 PM

Sorry for the cross post, but it should be here, too....

I finally got the F-Series working for me!
I switched to buckers…

And, I reduced the gain on the dirt channel by pulling back the tone controls. To me the gain is over-the-top and not in a great way. Now it's very clear and very articulate, yet still singing... and it's got the typical old school boogie tone instead of that half-a-recto thing that I didn't care for (ie. the fizz is gone).

I have the gain at about 9-10 o'clock; the treble at about 10 o'clock; and mid and bass at 9 o'clock with the contour engaged.

I like this quite a lot for single note lead work. I'm using a FDII on the clean channel for crunch with a G-Major in the loop.

I think this set-up will work quite nice for a compact, easy to transport, rig.

Thanks for listening.

I should add... I'm using a hotplate so that I can work the power tubes a tad.:)

hal9000

12-10-2005, 02:29 PM

Originally posted by SuperStrat
Sorry for the cross post, but it should be here, too....

I should add... I'm using a hotplate so that I can work the power tubes a tad.:) Sweet! I'm glad the F-50 is working out for you. I too like the old school tones you can pull at lower gain levels, in fact I was just playing my vintange high gain setting but this time with a bit of a twist. :D

I finally have all my gear at home so I setup my usual F-100 -> G-Major rig but I also added my Rivera R55-12 as a Right Side slave from the G-Major running into the FX return. I was able to equalize the levels by adjusting the R55's return level (Rivera's have sweet loops BTW). So, I finally got to hear the F-series preamp through an EL-34 power section with a Celestion G12T-85 speaker. It's funny how close it sounds to the F-100's setup. Basically, you loose some bass, gain some highs and the upper mids get increased as well. Of course running in stereo is mucho fun since all the G-Major's stereo FX are really lush. I'm particularly fond of the chorus and ping-pong delay. Also, as expected, I had some ground loop hum going on but the G-Major's Noise Gate totally zapped it, which is the first time I've needed to use it. :thu: I wish I had my singer's recording gear to make you guys some clips, alas he's in Colorado on a ski trip. So, my rig continues to inspire as I’m sure you guys already knew.

SuperStrat

12-10-2005, 04:21 PM

Originally posted by hal9000
Rock on man! I'm glad the setting was useful to you. Also check out Andy's excellent mod'ed Marshall setting:

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y34/afraiddave/hal9000AndysModedMarshallTone.jpg

It's funny that you mentioned Hell's Bells, because I almost always play AC/DC when I warm up on the vintage high-gain setting. It's so clear and open and the amp gives up the goods when you dig in, which is just plain fun.

This pretty close to the setting I mentioned above.;)

markmann

12-12-2005, 05:55 AM

Originally posted by SuperStrat
Sorry for the cross post, but it should be here, too....

I finally got the F-Series working for me!
I switched to buckers…

I should add... I'm using a hotplate so that I can work the power tubes a tad.:) You switched to buckers? If that's true IMO that is quite a drastic move to get the amp working. In my case I must say that I did like the sound of my bucker equipped guitars way more than my Strat when I first got the f50. After asking opinions of the other F50 owners I found that many love single coil pup's though the amp so I suspected that it might just be the Lace Sensors I had in the guitar. I swapped them for a set of Bill Lawrence pup's and all is well.

Surfcaster

12-12-2005, 01:32 PM

Originally posted by markmann
You switched to buckers? If that's true IMO that is quite a drastic move to get the amp working. In my case I must say that I did like the sound of my bucker equipped guitars way more than my Strat when I first got the f50. After asking opinions of the other F50 owners I found that many love single coil pup's though the amp so I suspected that it might just be the Lace Sensors I had in the guitar. I swapped them for a set of Bill Lawrence pup's and all is well.

I have a MIM Strat with Lace Sensors in it...from neck to bridge it's blue, gold, red. I'm very happy with the blue in the neck...serious sweet fatness. But I'm not so happy with the red in the bridge...sounds a little thin for my tastes. OTH, I'm very happy with the DiMarzio Vintage PAF bucker I've got in the Surfcaster. A friend of mine has a red lace sensor in his strat bridge and loves it (that's why I went that route) and while it's certainly an improvement over the stock p'ups, it's still not quite what I'm going for, so it's interesting to hear that from someone else, too.

After I get a new LP style guitar next year, I may return to a more traditional sounding strat...hoping Fender makes the p'ups in the new Eric Johnson signature strat available as a replacement set...in an interview he did with Guitar Player he said they were considering it.

markmann

12-13-2005, 05:17 AM

Originally posted by Surfcaster

I have a MIM Strat with Lace Sensors in it...from neck to bridge it's blue, gold, red. I'm very happy with the blue in the neck...serious sweet fatness. But I'm not so happy with the red in the bridge...sounds a little thin for my tastes. OTH, I'm very happy with the DiMarzio Vintage PAF bucker I've got in the Surfcaster. A friend of mine has a red lace sensor in his strat bridge and loves it (that's why I went that route) and while it's certainly an improvement over the stock p'ups, it's still not quite what I'm going for, so it's interesting to hear that from someone else, too.

After I get a new LP style guitar next year, I may return to a more traditional sounding strat...hoping Fender makes the p'ups in the new Eric Johnson signature strat available as a replacement set...in an interview he did with Guitar Player he said they were considering it. Interesting, my Strat had blue-silver-red. I liked the blue but thought it lacked a bit of clarity, the silver was my favorite of the set and the red I thought was horrible. If you read the reviews you'll find many others have similar thoughts. I played a new Strat with SCN's and thought it sounded good through an F50 and that's what led me to Bill Lawrence. I'm in love with my Lawrence neck and bridge pup's and can't keep my hands off the Strat now.

Surfcaster

12-13-2005, 08:46 AM

I've been wanting to try the new SCN pickups but haven't had a chance yet...our local Fender dealer rarely has any of the pricer models in stock. I've wished already that Fender sold them as a replacement set...don't know if they are planning to or not. I have seen them on e-bay, though. Which Bill Lawrence pickups did you put in your strat and what did you pay for them?

markmann

12-13-2005, 01:04 PM

Originally posted by Surfcaster
I've been wanting to try the new SCN pickups but haven't had a chance yet...our local Fender dealer rarely has any of the pricer models in stock. I've wished already that Fender sold them as a replacement set...don't know if they are planning to or not. I have seen them on e-bay, though. Which Bill Lawrence pickups did you put in your strat and what did you pay for them? After Bill designed the SCN's he designed a new set of noiseless singles and added them to his line. The current available Bill Lawrence Strat pup's include the older models L280 and L290 and the new one's are L200 and L298. I mixed old and new by installing an L200n (neck), L200m (middle) and L290L (bridge) and the cost was $40.00 each. You can read more about all of them on the Bill Lawrence (http://www.billlawrence.com) website. Also, call the phone number on the site to talk with someone very helpful.

FYI, I almost bought a new Am Del Strat but decided to take a chance on my old one and put in the BL's and I'm glad I did because IMO it sounds better through the F50 than the SCN's.

If you decide to buy some SCN's off Ebay be careful because the pup's Fender puts on the HSS are hotter than the one's on the SSS.

geek_usa

12-14-2005, 12:13 AM

Okay, after listening to the clips, I'm sold.

However I don't think I need 50 watts. I've heard the F-30 is a bit different because of the EL34s instead of the 6l6's...but is it almost dead on to these clips? I'm really digging Tommi Inkila's "building the mood" right now.

danbronson

12-14-2005, 01:08 AM

Originally posted by geek_usa
Okay, after listening to the clips, I'm sold.

However I don't think I need 50 watts. I've heard the F-30 is a bit different because of the EL34s instead of the 6l6's...but is it almost dead on to these clips? I'm really digging Tommi Inkila's "building the mood" right now.

EL84s, not EL34s. far less headroom, aggressive midrange spike, less bass. these can all be good things or bad things depending on what you want.

i was going to go with the F-30, but I a/b'd one with an F-50 and the 50 won due to it's 'bigger' sound and overall smoothness (which is what these amps excel at).

PS. I've finally given into the thread and posted here...:eek:

geek_usa

12-14-2005, 01:22 AM

Originally posted by danbronson

EL84s, not EL34s. far less headroom, aggressive midrange spike, less bass. these can all be good things or bad things depending on what you want.

i was going to go with the F-30, but I a/b'd one with an F-50 and the 50 won due to it's 'bigger' sound and overall smoothness (which is what these amps excel at).

PS. I've finally given into the thread and posted here...:eek:

Well I got a huge dilemma.

F-50 or DC-3. The DC-3 has the best clean channel I've heard so far, and I'm really digging Scorpion Band's clip of his solo. That's a very nice gritty buttery tone. But my gut says F-50 because of all of the raving reviews.

I like the tones offered here...but I don't know if it's worth paying $300 more for?

I know this is an F-series thread, but does anybody have any clips of the DC series?

I need an amp that

has a nice, shimmery clean channel that's warm and organic (a la fender twin)
has a nice buttery smooth gain channel but can also get pretty brutal without sounding horribly nasty
takes pedals quite well
works with both humbuckers AND single coils quite well (my main weapon of choice is a Fender Strat)
that will help my ability to play and get better

note that i'm looking at the combo amps here, not the heads. I can't quite afford the head and cab dealies yet. :wave:

advice? Thanks!

Tommi Inkila

12-14-2005, 02:14 AM

Originally posted by geek_usa
Okay, after listening to the clips, I'm sold.

However I don't think I need 50 watts. I've heard the F-30 is a bit different because of the EL34s instead of the 6l6's...but is it almost dead on to these clips? I'm really digging Tommi Inkila's "building the mood" right now.
Thanks a lot!

I'm glad you liked the clip. Have you already checked my bands album trailer, it's full of F50.. follow the link on my signature.

F30 and F50 differences have been already stated. What comes to DC-series... hmm, I'd say that it's distortion is more undefined and even a little bit buzzier. I don't have a good memory of the clean sound, but I'm quite sure that the F won't lose in that category. :rolleyes:

Gazz

12-14-2005, 04:24 AM

Hi guys, greetings from the UK

As a new owner I have noticed a pop when switching channels. Anyone else noticed this?

Great board BTW

Tommi Inkila

12-14-2005, 04:29 AM

Originally posted by Gazz
Hi guys, greetings from the UK

As a new owner I have noticed a pop when switching channels. Anyone else noticed this?

Great board BTW
Welcome aboard to the board!

Hmm, I think there may be a pop, but that's random in my case... I don't "hear" it anymore, but I think the pop is noticeable if you change the channel when you're not playing :rolleyes:

hal9000

12-14-2005, 07:21 AM

Originally posted by geek_usa
Well I got a huge dilemma.

F-50 or DC-3. ...
I need an amp that

has a nice, shimmery clean channel that's warm and organic (a la fender twin)
has a nice buttery smooth gain channel but can also get pretty brutal without sounding horribly nasty
takes pedals quite well
works with both humbuckers AND single coils quite well (my main weapon of choice is a Fender Strat)
that will help my ability to play and get better

Welcome to the thread geek_usa!

One of the main differences in the F-30 and F-50 is the cabinet, where the F-50 has a widebody and the F-30 is a narrowbody. Most would agree that the F-50 just sounds bigger and that's partly the cab and partly the 6L6 output tubes. NOTE: There was a short run of F-50s in a narrowbody format, but there aren't many around and the widebody is the current production version.

As far as the F-series meeting your criteria, I don't think you can find a closer match. The F-series excells at everything you've listed and then some.

I'd also like to add that I play an American Deluxe Fender Fat Strat and I use single coils and humbuckers on both channels. In fact, my normal overdrive settings for my mid gain overdrive with my HB gives an awesome violin smooth lead tone on the neck single coil with tons of sustain.

BTW, there is a sweet F-30 on eBay (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=7375123562&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT) right now.

geek_usa

12-14-2005, 12:52 PM

What about the Mesa/Boogie Maverick 2x12?

(sorry, I'm just trying to weigh out all of my options)

She looks beautiful and is all Class A. Anybody have any experience with these? (sorry if I'm hijacking the thread)

danbronson

12-14-2005, 01:47 PM

no experience with the maverick, but i own an f-50 combo and a friend owns a dc-3 head (into a mesa verticle 2X12).

from my experience with the two, the cleans on the f-50 kill the dc-3, and i prefer the lead channel as well, even though the dc-3 has a nice 'aggressive' quality to it that the f-50 lacks.

both amps cover a lot of each other's ground. and it really comes down to which voicing you prefer. one thing the f series can do that the dcs can't however is the blues...this might just be my opinion but to me the f series is like a smoother, bigger sounding dc that can nail blues and jazz as well.

Tommi Inkila

12-14-2005, 02:01 PM

Here it is, my rig, made by hal9000!

...and what a co-incident... Kubrick's 2001: Space Odyssey is on tv here, right at this moment!

http://www.scenerychannel.com/hal9000TommisRigRevD.png

Thanks Neil! :)

geek_usa

12-14-2005, 06:40 PM

Originally posted by Tommi Inkila
Here it is, my rig, made by hal9000!

...and what a co-incident... Kubrick's 2001: Space Odyssey is on tv here, right at this moment!

http://www.scenerychannel.com/hal9000TommisRigRevD.png

Thanks Neil! :)

Hey is that Morley Little Aligator volume pedal any good? I had an EB Mono volume which I liked for awhile but I like switching pedals around sometimes. I'm trying to keep a fairly simple set up.

IMO, a delay pedal without a volume pedal is next to useless :thu:

Tommi Inkila

12-15-2005, 03:35 AM

Quality wise it's excellent. No pots to wear (it's optic)... big plus.

It differs from the EB pedal in it's sensitivity. The volume swell is much faster on Little Alligator. Probably because the designer, Steve Vai, uses a lot of those very fast volume swells. EB is better on long and steady volume fade ins. You can do that on the Little Alligator, but you leg movement must be much more precise. :rolleyes:

hal9000

12-15-2005, 05:59 AM

Originally posted by Tommi Inkila
Here it is, my rig, made by hal9000!

...and what a co-incident... Kubrick's 2001: Space Odyssey is on tv here, right at this moment!

Thanks Neil! :) Your welcome Tommi. Merry Christmas. :)

Gazz

12-15-2005, 09:49 AM

Hi Guys
this is all interesting stuff about sounds and settings, loops etc what I am wondering how many of you play in a band?

I have found when playing live a lot of these subelties ( spelling) are completely lost. For the record I am the guitar player for the Ariel Bender Band, you may remember him he was the guitar player for Mott the Hoople.

Minor adjustments here and there are fine for the studio, but I know a lot of the great rock records were done on any old piece of junk that happened to be lying about in the studio.

Today its a lot different, but I am concerned that everyone is turning into a bedroom player and doesnt take it out.

Tell me if I am wrong.

hal9000

12-15-2005, 09:53 AM

Ripping Rudy

12-15-2005, 10:01 AM

I've only had my F-100 head for two weeks and have already used it live 4 times at club gigs. My band plays at least twice a week, every week.
I find that I do not do a whole lot of small adjustments - I just set it up, hit a chord and adjust it to the room with a nice, round sound. I also do not use a lot of effects - Just a Wah, Whammy, Overdrive, Delay and chorus sometimes.
What I do the most when playing live is just adjust the gain knob - If we play something older I turn the gain down to around 9:00 - If we play something more modern I put it up to around 11:00 or 12:00.
The other thing I do that is awesome is use the clean channel set to a squeaky clean sound and kick in the overdrive for a great, SRV type sound. I could probably use that sound all night if I had to!!

Gazz

12-15-2005, 10:20 AM

Thanks for the replies.

Hal & Rudy, do you use anything as a boost for solos?

In the past I have set a clean and crunch sound and used an overdrive. I notice on your Band website Hal you are using a Marshall pedal , I found those to have a dull mid rangey sort of sound that sounded a bit bland. Does the Boogie sort that out?

hal9000

12-15-2005, 10:21 AM

Here is the stereo rig that I was talking about before. There's lots of fun to be had here:

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y34/afraiddave/hal9000StereoRigRevB.png

hal9000

12-15-2005, 10:42 AM

Originally posted by Gazz
Thanks for the replies.

Hal & Rudy, do you use anything as a boost for solos?

In the past I have set a clean and crunch sound and used an overdrive. I notice on your Band website Hal you are using a Marshall pedal , I found those to have a dull mid rangey sort of sound that sounded a bit bland. Does the Boogie sort that out? I have run the gamut of solo boosts from an EQ out front for clean and semi-dirt, the Marshall Guv’nor II, a home-made DIY loop attenuator and solo boost, the Contour channel as a boost for OD, to now where I have the G-Major for all my boosting since it is incomparably more flexible than anything else I've cooked up.

For clean, boosting out front works great, in fact the EQ in my rig is expressly for boosts. Since the clean channel is so dynamic a couple dB bump translates well to the output. I use the Marshall Guv’nor II as an overdrive for smooth solos over clean parts. Because of the way the pedal sounds on its own I drop the bass and deep to 0, crank the mids to 10 and put the treble about half way. Gain and Vol are both at 12:00. So, with my guitars on the clean channel I get a nice smooth solo sound that way with a boost because of the volume setting. I don’t use any pedals now since I’ve gotten the G-Major though. Now, all my boosts are from the G-Major, and the OD channel is set slightly midrangey for solo sounds and middle gain territory. Then, I use contour for heavier tones. Since the G-Major can have preset levels per patch, I just attenuate the Contour channel 3 dB to make the output equivalent to the regular OD channel. When it comes time for solos I almost always use the OD channel + 3 dB. To replace my smooth solo sounds from the Guv’nor II I still use the OD channel, just with the neck position single coil on my strat which works great and sounds much better than any pedal I’ve ever tried.

Tommi Inkila

12-15-2005, 12:54 PM

Originally posted by Gazz
Hi Guys
this is all interesting stuff about sounds and settings, loops etc what I am wondering how many of you play in a band?

I have found when playing live a lot of these subelties ( spelling) are completely lost. For the record I am the guitar player for the Ariel Bender Band, you may remember him he was the guitar player for Mott the Hoople.

Minor adjustments here and there are fine for the studio, but I know a lot of the great rock records were done on any old piece of junk that happened to be lying about in the studio.

Today its a lot different, but I am concerned that everyone is turning into a bedroom player and doesnt take it out.

Tell me if I am wrong.
Some may disagree with me on this, but I over-emphasize my side a bit so that my idea comes clearer...

*role mode on*

The sound for audience comes first. I'm playing for them, not for myself in my bedroom. I have set my amps in a way that the miked sound is good through speakers (and hopefully good when I'm playing next to my rig). After that I worry, do I hear myself properly... Most of the gigs I can't. It doesn't look good if I start to walk around the stage and try to find a sweet pot or start tweaking the amp. The show must go on... I know that it sounds good for the audience and I know what I'm playing.

Through practise (our rehearsal room is horrible sounding 15 square meters) I can play barely hearing myself. On solos I need a little bit more of kick so my lead sound is boosted 4dB's with G-Majors compressor on the loop.

Most of the gig places we've been into don't have good monitoring so I'm prepared for it... I'm also prepared that my F don't sound that good.

*role mode off*

Well, I guess my point on that long part was there are so many uncontrollable factors in live playing that it's impossible to know how everything will sound.

I understand completely that it feels much better to play when you hear yourself and all those wonderful delays and reverbs. You play then better also.

---

What comes to those recordings, in studio things are much more controllable. There are lots of old things that sound great for one thing.

Most of newer machines are developed from older equipment. Ie. the F-series is from Studio PreAmp, now the F is more versatile I think. Then of course, the tone is always subjective and you can be biased towards certain sounds since the album and the music itself have somehow affected to your musical senses.

Few thoughts... I hope that there's something reasonable along those lines :rolleyes:

EDIT: I left many thoughts out of this post and the text is not very logical... but still maybe there's some truth in there... got to go to sleep after this 12 hour flush of exams :freak:

Gazz

12-15-2005, 04:02 PM

Hal, very useful, thanks. Its good to hear another players view of how things should and do work

Tommy, fascinating stuff there. Your obviously a guy who's got his head sorted. Good insight and I agre with you on a number of your points.

Thanks Guys!

danbronson

12-15-2005, 06:19 PM

I've got a bit of band experience with my F-50 (Generally I'm using a JCM800 halfstack though) and the main thing that I've noticed is that it has to be a bit louder than you'd think to cut through, but when it's at that volume it makes the whole mix sound great.

That's for hard rock, using the lead channel. For clean sounds, it also has to be quite a bit louder than you'd think depending on where you set your gain and mid control. The 'nice' sounds this clean channel makes are so gentle that they get washed away in a band context unless you're turning up. Once again, if you've got the right volume level, it sounds great.

jem7vwh

12-15-2005, 06:25 PM

Hey have any of you guys tried the DC-3 combo?

Hows it fare against the F-30? I can pick up a used DC-3 for only 650 Canadian right now, so it seems like a great deal...

Dann'sTheMan

12-16-2005, 02:20 AM

Originally posted by Gazz
Hi Guys
this is all interesting stuff about sounds and settings, loops etc what I am wondering how many of you play in a band?

I have found when playing live a lot of these subelties ( spelling) are completely lost. For the record I am the guitar player for the Ariel Bender Band, you may remember him he was the guitar player for Mott the Hoople.

Minor adjustments here and there are fine for the studio, but I know a lot of the great rock records were done on any old piece of junk that happened to be lying about in the studio.

Today its a lot different, but I am concerned that everyone is turning into a bedroom player and doesnt take it out.

Tell me if I am wrong.

Hi Gazz,

my fellow Brit. I haven't had a chance to welcome you to HCAF yet, but I hope you have as much fun here as me. :) Where abouts are you based? I live in Berkshire.

I play on the UK Christian music scene, so my playing is primarily live. I play perhaps two or three international conferences a year (usually have to take a flying rig) and I also play for one of the UK's leading gospel musical directors and authorities, so playing for his choirs and projects results in some very interesting work: UK and European performances and tours, TV, radio, studio etc.

My regular gig is playing in a worship band (talented bunch - I actually moved to this area so that I could be more active with this group), playing for services weekly along with rehearsals, plus a "showcase" event once a month.

I used to play in a funk band as well, doing gigs across the South East - talented and prolific group, with several ex-pro guys. It disbanded a few years ago, and I do miss it, but my first love has always been Christian music. Most of the guitars in Christian music are done by session guys, hence their strong influence on my approach to guitar.

HCAF was responsible for getting me into home recording. It's all very well talking about how much you're enjoying the tones that you are dialling, but clips simply talk louder (when I first started posting here, in the absence of clips, the F-series was constantly snubbed). From my live experience, I already knew how to mike a cab, and I must admit that learning about home recording has added a new dimension to my approach to guitar. I'm still very much a hobbyist, but there are people here at HCAF who are producing world-class recordings.

Does any of these home recording subtleties translate to my live playing. Well, I've always had a good understanding of which were "my" guitar frequencies in the mix, and I've always used FX sparingly. Now, I have a much better understanding of how the FX sit in the mix too, and how to use them to enhance the guitar, without losing the guitar's cut in the mix. One example is that I never used to use delay (mistakenly seeing it as a U2 only type of effect). It's probably fair to say that I probably use delay more than reverb now.

As a live player, I absolutely love the flexibility of my rig. I can dial in core tones quickly and efficiently on the F-series front panel, then switch to that tone together with an enhancing FX patch with a single stomp on my MIDI controller's footswitch. This side of the discussion is all about practicality rather than subtlety, :p

Big smiles,

Andy.

Tommi Inkila

12-16-2005, 05:35 AM

Originally posted by Gazz
Hal, very useful, thanks. Its good to hear another players view of how things should and do work

Tommy, fascinating stuff there. Your obviously a guy who's got his head sorted. Good insight and I agre with you on a number of your points.

Thanks Guys!
Thanks... I'm glad you agree with me. :)

Tommi Inkila

12-16-2005, 05:36 AM

Originally posted by hal9000
Your welcome Tommi. Merry Christmas. :)
Merry Christmas Neil!

AND MERRY CHRISTMAS TO EVERYBODY :thu:

markmann

12-16-2005, 06:02 AM

Tommi Inkila

12-16-2005, 06:18 AM

Originally posted by markmann So then why do I bother using a quality amp live? Because when I have an amp like the F50 next to me aimed so that I can hear it I play better and gives me confidence that I'm at least starting with great tone and after that hopefully some of that makes it out of the PA cab's and someone appreciates it. [/B]
That's a good point. I've added another dimension to that... since I know the starting tone is good, getting the same to audience is next priority. I must be annoying guy to some mixers, but then normally I don't have to fight a lot, because I can give the experience concerning my amp to them.

I have marked the position for a SM57 on my cab etc.

Dann'sTheMan

12-16-2005, 07:43 AM

Totally agree with Mark and Tommi on the points raised. I see my role as the guitar player, is to bring the best and most appropriate guitar tones to the mix. If those tones are inspiring to, then I play better and more expressively. But I don't unduly worry about whether I should be using a plate or hall reverb setting in my live tone - if it sounds good to me, then I'll use it. :D

However, I know that I only have very limited control of how the guitars sound in the mix (deep breath: "the sound guy is my friend... the sound guy IS my friend"). :p I also work to try and make his job easier. I bring my own mike, and mike the cab myself (unless he is keen to do this himself). I also try to find the best compromise to minimise spill from the stage volume, and give him maximum control of the mix. :eek: Consequently, how those "subtleties" translate to the FOH mix, is not my responsibility, and I can let it go. :)

Big smiles,

Andy.

Tommi Inkila

12-16-2005, 08:01 AM

Yes, the sound guy is our friend... but sometimes you meet the guy who walks straight to your amp and turns treble up and bass almost to zero :eek: ... not nice :)

I think it's good to take care your own sound, politely of course. Few times we've had the same guy behind mixer and things are getting mold nicely, no extra hassle, just plug it in few tweaks and everythings great.

One extra thing:

Why I think G-Major is a great solution for almost everyone. Great basic effects, ok (or better) quality, no noticeable sound degration and good features. On normal clubs and gig places (if at any place) don't have that precise sound system that it could reproduce the sound of your brand new Lexicon super dual action reverb. All that detail will be lost in the mix and probably right on the mic that's trying to pick it up. Afterall, SM57 is actually quite lofi mic.

Ripping Rudy

12-16-2005, 08:19 AM

I use a boss super overdrive to add a little dirt to the clean channel and I also use it for a boost for leads on channel 2 when NOT using the contour. This gives me the most liquid smooth lead sound I've ever played with. I don't even have to pick - I can just hammer on notes a la an 80's shredder (which I am.. haha) and make rock faces!!
I generally prefer a lower gain though... I only use the boost if I wanna bury the bodys.

danbronson

12-16-2005, 10:39 AM

as far as the soundguy is concerned, it's different every time.

sometimes you run into the idiot that you just have to ignore (and sometimes you have to make up for their mistakes a bit by controlling the mix via your stage volume). hopefully that never happens, because then nobody wins.

the F series, in my experience, mixes very well with a full band though when mic'd up (assuming you have a decent sound guy).

bowen71

12-17-2005, 02:07 PM

After reading in here for a while I ordered a Weber Mini Mass.
I just took it out of the box and tried it out.

I can't tell a difference between using the mass to quiet the amp and just turning the master down.

I have an F-50 head into a standard Mesa 4x12 straight cabinet.
I have noticed how nice it sounds with the master around the 10:00 range, but since that was causing hearing loss I ordered the mass. I got the 50 watt mini mass. And like I said before, it really doesn't sound any different then when I just turn the master back down to a quiet level, not to mention with the mass I have to crank the clean channel. And by the way I have never been happy with the clean sound on this amp, it's like the cabinet has such a bassy muffled sound that I can't open it up with highs without the sound quality breaking up from adding so many highs.

I was thinking some of the good sound comes from putting some power to the speakers, and when the sound is attenuated the speakers no longer cut loose.

I was thinking maybe some of you Mesa gurus in here might have some advice.

Right now I am running an Epiphone Les Paul Custom straight into the amp, with a rack EQ, Boss Me-50, and a BBE Sonic Maximizer in the loop (in that order). But even if I unhook all the effects it sounds the same.

Kilgore

12-18-2005, 11:54 AM

Hello Everybody!

I've been reading all the fine posts you people been putting up, this is all great info!!! Thanks....:thu:

I've been waiting over 20 years to finally get myself a boogie, now that the F-50 came along I just had to order meeself an F-50 head!!!

I've been using a '78 Peavey Deuce 120watt thu a pair of E120 JBLs in closed-back config... I havn't seen any comments on the kind of sound I may get out of these speakers with the F-50! I think JBLs are really clean mofos, compaired to, say, Celestions or Eminence... any comments?

'78 Gibson SG Firebrand
'81 B.C.Rich Mockingbird w/ Bill Lawrence L-500s

Antti Loponen

12-19-2005, 04:22 AM

Hi! Here's a new F-30 user. I was a long-time Line6 POD XT user but now I decided to switch to tube distortion. I still use the XT for effects and play a 1978 Gibson SG.

I got my F-30 for 1000 euros though the list price was nearly 1500. Mesas sure are overpriced in Finland, but I got a special discount because the shop had done a good job selling Mesa this year ;)

I was surprised by how loud the amp is. I used to play a borrowed Marshall JCM 600 all-tube combo with 60 watts of power and two speakers, having the master volume usually way past halfway. Now I'm playing a como with half the power and half the speakers, and where is my master volume? On 9'o'clock!

And the tones...Pod XT was neat, but it was always a bit sizzly, especially on low-gain tones. But now every frequency is just right, and feels good on my ears. I don't use much gain, the gain knob is below 9'o'clock, just at the sweet spot. I go for a basic Marshall-style distortion. Not much bass or mids (the mid control seemed to just make the sound thicker and more muddy, which I don't want). The clean channel is also incredibly responsive and warm.

My only complaint is that I cannot balance the distortion channel with and without contour boost. Either the normal channel has too much distortion or the countoured not enough. I like to have two levels of distortion and wouldn't want to use pedals for that.

Another complaint is on the footswitch: when I'm on the clean channel, I can't see if the contour is on or off, but switching the contour still makes a difference. I know that a footswitch has its limits, but if I could mod it somehow by disengaging the reverb switch which I don't need, it would be cool.

hal9000

12-19-2005, 08:44 AM

Originally posted by bowen71
I have an F-50 head into a standard Mesa 4x12 straight cabinet.
I have noticed how nice it sounds with the master around the 10:00 range, but since that was causing hearing loss I ordered the mass. I got the 50 watt mini mass. And like I said before, it really doesn't sound any different then when I just turn the master back down to a quiet level, not to mention with the mass I have to crank the clean channel. This is odd, because there should definitely be some improvement in tone due to the tubes being pushed harder. When I run my Hot Plate @ -12 dB compared to my amp at the same volume by turning down the master there is no comparison. The pushed, yet attenuated power amp adds much to the sound. How much attenuation are you running on the Mass? If you use too much attenuation then all the attenuators will sound bad. That’s why I never run the Hot Plate below -12 dB. After that point, the tone goes the other direction. BTW, 100 W with 12 dB of attenuation is only 6.3 W! Surprising, huh?

Now, on the subject of the clean channel needing to be cranked, I’m not sure why that would happen. Both channels get attenuated equally since the Mass is post power amp, so there shouldn’t be any difference in relative level between the channels before or after attenuation. With my F-100 and Hot Plate, I run the clean channel about 11:00 with the OD around 10:00 and that’s fairly equal volume. Are your settings drastically different from mine?

Originally posted by bowen71
And by the way I have never been happy with the clean sound on this amp, it's like the cabinet has such a bassy muffled sound that I can't open it up with highs without the sound quality breaking up from adding so many highs.Hmm, what settings are you running on this channel? With the Epi Les Paul, you’ll definitely need to turn down the gain, bass, and mids (e.g. 10:00) and probably add the bright switch on treble to get a sparkly clean sound. The clean can in fact be dialed for a bass heavy tone (which I love) but it’s rather like piano-tight bass than muddy on my F-100. I typically use my Strat’s single coils on the clean channel, but when I run my Ravelle or H-1000 I still like the clean it’s just darker and bassier given the same settings. Of course, I like the difference between SC and HB cleans since I use that tone for a couple of really dark clean songs. Here’s the setting I’m thinking may work for you:

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y34/afraiddave/hal9000HumbuckerCleanSetting.png

Also, while we’re on the subject, you may as well experiment with attenuation in the loop since you have the gear for that already. I would suggest running the master on the OD up to at least 10:00 and use both the Mass and loop to attenuate to non-deafening levels. Using my G-major in conjunction with the Hot Plate, I can get superb low volume tones.

I hope this helps. :)

hal9000

12-19-2005, 08:56 AM

Originally posted by Kilgore
<snip>I've been waiting over 20 years to finally get myself a boogie, now that the F-50 came along I just had to order meeself an F-50 head!!!

I've been using a '78 Peavey Deuce 120watt thu a pair of E120 JBLs in closed-back config... I havn't seen any comments on the kind of sound I may get out of these speakers with the F-50! I think JBLs are really clean mofos, compaired to, say, Celestions or Eminence... any comments?Congrats on the F-50 and welcome to the brotherhood Kilgore! :)

I’ve had a look at the specs on your JBL E120 and they are insane!

Continuous Program Power 300 Watts :D
Frequency Response 50Hz -6kHz
Sensitivity (1W/1m) 103dB SPL :D

Those, my friend, are going to me insanely loud and clean. You definitely won't hear any speaker breakup with those. I didn't see a chart of the frequency response, but I should think they will be quite capable of any amount of bass you throw at them. In fact, they almost seem like bass guitar speakers? Anyway, I'm inclined the think that the E120s will be really hi-fi compared to say a V30, but I'd have to see a frequency response chart to say for sure. I’d really like to hear some clips of those monsters! :)

hal9000

12-19-2005, 09:27 AM

Originally posted by Antti Loponen
Hi! Here's a new F-30 user. I was a long-time Line6 POD XT user but now I decided to switch to tube distortion. I still use the XT for effects and play a 1978 Gibson SG.Congrats on the F-30 Antti and welcome to the brotherhood! :)

Originally posted by Antti Loponen
I was surprised by how loud the amp is. I used to play a borrowed Marshall JCM 600 all-tube combo with 60 watts of power and two speakers, having the master volume usually way past halfway. Now I'm playing a como with half the power and half the speakers, and where is my master volume? On 9'o'clock!Yup, the Vintage 30 and dynawatt power section are a lot louder than you’d think.

Originally posted by Antti Loponen
I go for a basic Marshall-style distortionYou should definitely check out Andy’s Mod’ed Marshall Setting:

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y34/afraiddave/hal9000AndysModedMarshallTone.jpg

Originally posted by Antti Loponen
My only complaint is that I cannot balance the distortion channel with and without contour boost. Either the normal channel has too much distortion or the countoured not enough. I like to have two levels of distortion and wouldn't want to use pedals for that. Well, that’s part of the design tradeoff of the F-series. Since the Contour mode is footswitchable the amp can be used like it has three-channels. However, to get true three-channel operation you’ll need to have a way to attenuate the loop on command for the different channels. I perform this trick with my G-Major which also switches channels for me. Basically, any patch that uses contour is reduced by -3 dB to make the OD channel match. I actually use the OD channel for all my solos since it has a fat singing lead tone. There are lots of other ways to equalize the channels, so here are a couple of options:

1) Volume pedal in the loop. In this case, you could turn the parallel loop mix down such that the minimum and max position on the pedal only give you 3 dB of travel. So, for normal OD you run the pedal up full and for contour you rock back all the way.
2) FX processor. You can basically do anything you want here since everything is programmable.
3) DIY loop attenuator. I built and used to use a home brew loop attenuator that had a switchable true-bypass for solos. Essentially, nominal level was down 3 dB, and I hit the switch for true-bypass or 0 dB. You could even mod the F-series footswitch to use the reverb switch for the solo boost.
4) EQ or other similar device. I didn’t really like my pedal EQ in the loop because everything sounded processed but there are others that should work fine.

Originally posted by Antti Loponen
Another complaint is on the footswitch: when I'm on the clean channel, I can't see if the contour is on or off, but switching the contour still makes a difference. I know that a footswitch has its limits, but if I could mod it somehow by disengaging the reverb switch which I don't need, it would be cool. If you’re on a dark stage you can actually see that contour is engaged because the LED is biased very low, but I agree it would be nice to have the indication on the amp and/or footswitch. I think a cool mod for the F-series would be to install a dual orange/red LED in the spot for the OD channel on the amp’s faceplate, and add a little circuit so OD = orange and Contour = Red.

Tommi Inkila

12-19-2005, 10:21 AM

Ripping Rudy

12-19-2005, 10:33 AM

I played on Saturday night with the following settings - The sound guy told me "Never, ever sell this amp!!!" - All settings are based on clock time:

Gain: 9:00-11:00 - Depending on the song.
Treble: 11:00
Mid: 1:00
Bass: 1:00
Reverb: 9:00
Master: 9:30-10:00

Channel 2 - No contour.

The sound was SICK. I should mention that I use two Ibanez RG-421's w/ bill lawrence L500XL pickups for live work.

Antti Loponen

12-19-2005, 11:53 AM

Originally posted by hal9000

Well, that’s part of the design tradeoff of the F-series. Since the Contour mode is footswitchable the amp can be used like it has three-channels. However, to get true three-channel operation you’ll need to have a way to attenuate the loop on command for the different channels. I perform this trick with my G-Major which also switches channels for me. Basically, any patch that uses contour is reduced by -3 dB to make the OD channel match.

I think you got me wrong. I would like the contour boost to be more radical. Now it is too much of just a volume boost. I'd like to get a more radical difference on the gain level on the normal and contour channels. So normal would be a slight drive and contour my basic distortion.

I could just make the clean channel gritty, but I need a clean channel too. And using a pedal to make a slight overdriven tone doesn't just cut it.

Antti Loponen

12-19-2005, 11:55 AM

Originally posted by Tommi Inkila

Tervetuloa joukkoon!

You can affect to that distortion by changing the preamp tube on V2... actually V1 affects more to the tone, but it changes the cleans also. Still, I think that Mesas own (sovtek) tubes aren't necessarily the best ones.

Kiitti!

Yeah, I would like to experiment with different tubes. Would changing tubes really affect the amount of gain boost on the contour switch?

hal9000

12-19-2005, 12:17 PM

Originally posted by Antti Loponen

I think you got me wrong. I would like the contour boost to be more radical. Now it is too much of just a volume boost. I'd like to get a more radical difference on the gain level on the normal and contour channels. So normal would be a slight drive and contour my basic distortion.

I could just make the clean channel gritty, but I need a clean channel too. And using a pedal to make a slight overdriven tone doesn't just cut it. Hmm, okay I was addressing the volume difference, but I understand what you're saying now. There is certainly a gain boost in Contour, but if you're wanting a crunch to metal type of difference, then that's not really what Contour does. I wouldn't write-off pedals though simply because you can get a lot of tonal variation that way. For instance, if you use an EQ pedal for a boost on the contour channel for your aggressive tone, and turn off the EQ for your crunch sound there will be a big difference in the gain and tone. The EQ just amplifies the signal without changing the sound of the guitar so all you’re adding is gain. Of course if you employ the EQ sliders to change the tone all the better because there will be quite a bit of difference. Let’s say you set up the Contour for a slightly mid heavy crunch like AC/DC with the Gain-9:00 T-9:00, M-3:00, B-11:00. Then, you run the EQ with a boost and a bit of mid scoop. Just the difference in mids and gain makes the tone change from vintage to modern. You could get an even bigger difference by running the EQ OFF in the OD channel and switching into the contour channel with EQ ON. So, you aren’t really changing the core tone of the amp like with a distortion pedal, just the available gain. Also, there are some really good tube pedals from Radial like the Tonebone Classic that sound great and would do an outstanding job on the clean channel as well for a completely different sounding distortion to the F-series.

You can adjust the volume on your guitar for crunch sounds as well. It just depends on what you're comfortable with.

Tommi Inkila

12-19-2005, 12:21 PM

Originally posted by Antti Loponen

Kiitti!

Yeah, I would like to experiment with different tubes. Would changing tubes really affect the amount of gain boost on the contour switch?
The changing will mostly affect on the balance between the channels... that way you might get it to be easier to dime in. Ie. putting JJ on V1 made the amp a lot tighter less distorted and Billington Golds (tested Svetlana) made everything a little bit smoother. This combined with the use of your guitars volume knob should get you closer to what you're looking for.

Dylan Walters

12-19-2005, 12:26 PM

Another loyal F-30 user here! What a great thread! At any rate, I’d love to hear about any good external speaker enclosures to use with the F-30. I’d like to get a 2x12 w/ Vintage 30’s, but I’m open to other suggestions. The Carvin legacy cab seems to be the best deal that I can find. Any other recommendations?

hal9000

12-19-2005, 12:32 PM

Originally posted by Dylan Walters
Another loyal F-30 user here! What a great thread! At any rate, I’d love to hear about any good external speaker enclosures to use with the F-30. I’d like to get a 2x12 w/ Vintage 30’s, but I’m open to other suggestions. The Carvin legacy cab seems to be the best deal that I can find. Any other recommendations? I have an Avatar Special G212H (http://www.avatarspeakers.com/g212h%20special%20VIN%2030.htm) ($323 Shipped) closed-back with V30s and it smokes with my F-100. This cab adds a ton of tight low end and really fills the room with sound. It makes an excellent companion to the 3/4 tuned-back of the F-100.

Dylan Walters

12-19-2005, 02:07 PM

That Avatar cab looks sweet and the price is sure right. Thanks for the heads up!

Antti Loponen

12-19-2005, 02:23 PM

Originally posted by hal9000
Hmm, okay I was addressing the volume difference, but I understand what you're saying now. There is certainly a gain boost in Contour, but if you're wanting a crunch to metal type of difference, then that's not really what Contour does.

I don't need a metal tone. I'd say I want to go from Malcom Young to Angus Young. From a light drive to a basic distortion. I don't play metal. I've used the overdrive modelings and volume boosts on my POD Xt, but they don't do enough difference. Also, it would make a hassle to kick the right pedals always. And yes, volume pedal helps a bit on certain parts, but it's also a bit of a hassle.

Antti Loponen

12-19-2005, 02:25 PM

Originally posted by Tommi Inkila

The changing will mostly affect on the balance between the channels...

between clean and distorted channels, or between distortion and contour?

Tommi Inkila

12-19-2005, 02:50 PM

Originally posted by Antti Loponen

between clean and distorted channels, or between distortion and contour?
Actually between all of them, but the clean is not the problem 'cause it has its own tone controls.

Kilgore

12-19-2005, 08:16 PM

Originally posted by hal9000
Those, my friend, are going to me insanely loud and clean. You definitely won't hear any speaker breakup with those. I didn't see a chart of the frequency response, but I should think they will be quite capable of any amount of bass you throw at them. In fact, they almost seem like bass guitar speakers? Anyway, I'm inclined the think that the E120s will be really hi-fi compared to say a V30, but I'd have to see a frequency response chart to say for sure. I’d really like to hear some clips of those monsters!

hal9000,
Great to be part of the brotherhood!,

Yes, loud and clean, that's mainly what I suspected!

But if I open up the cab, will I lose a lot of bass in the process? or should I keep the cab closed? decisions, decisions....

Don't fret, I will definitely post some clips when my head arrives...
is it in yet? is it in yet? is it in yet? is it in yet? is it in yet? is it in yet? is it in yet? :D :D

Dann'sTheMan

12-20-2005, 04:35 AM

Warm welcome to all the recent brothers joining the Lounge: Kilgore, Antti Loponen, Dylan Walters, geek_usa, bowen71 and even danbronson - who finally gave in to the urge. :p

Very best wishes over the Christmas season, and I hope the entire brotherhood has a rockin' New Year. :cool:

Big smiles,

Andy.

Surfcaster

12-20-2005, 12:28 PM

Originally posted by Antti Loponen

I don't need a metal tone. I'd say I want to go from Malcom Young to Angus Young. From a light drive to a basic distortion. I don't play metal. I've used the overdrive modelings and volume boosts on my POD Xt, but they don't do enough difference. Also, it would make a hassle to kick the right pedals always. And yes, volume pedal helps a bit on certain parts, but it's also a bit of a hassle.

I can understand you not wanting to use a distortion pedal when the tube amp sounds so good...I've been there, too. But I've got a Zoom PowerDrive that I picked up cheap on e-bay for $45 and it was made to serve as either an overdrive pedal or a clean boost and it works really well as a clean boost. I can set the F50 with the gain at around 9:00 and kick in the PowerDrive and it's essentially the same as turning the gain up to 11:00-12:00. The tone is SLIGHTLY different, but not very much so. This pedal is very transparent so all you're really doing by using it is pushing the F50s preamp harder.

Personally, I've given up on the hope of using the Contour switch as a third channel, besides there are very few situations where I play without the Contour...I pretty much have it engaged all the time.

The other thing to try is setting the gain at the highest you'd want it, then roll back on the guitar volume for your crunch tones. If you have the gain at 11:00 or less, the amp responds very well to changes in the guitars volume, and the lower the gain is set, the more responsive it is to both guitar volume and pick attack.

Dann'sTheMan

12-20-2005, 04:00 PM

Originally posted by Surfcaster

I can understand you not wanting to use a distortion pedal when the tube amp sounds so good...I've been there, too. But I've got a Zoom PowerDrive that I picked up cheap on e-bay for $45 and it was made to serve as either an overdrive pedal or a clean boost and it works really well as a clean boost. I can set the F50 with the gain at around 9:00 and kick in the PowerDrive and it's essentially the same as turning the gain up to 11:00-12:00. The tone is SLIGHTLY different, but not very much so. This pedal is very transparent so all you're really doing by using it is pushing the F50s preamp harder.

Personally, I've given up on the hope of using the Contour switch as a third channel, besides there are very few situations where I play without the Contour...I pretty much have it engaged all the time.

The other thing to try is setting the gain at the highest you'd want it, then roll back on the guitar volume for your crunch tones. If you have the gain at 11:00 or less, the amp responds very well to changes in the guitars volume, and the lower the gain is set, the more responsive it is to both guitar volume and pick attack.

+1. Clean boost, or controlling from your guitar are your two front runners imho.

I tend to think of the Contour switch as a voicing option between more vintage tones and more modern aggressive ones. It can be used as a solo boost, but what you are after is really an independent channel solution. Because the there is only one gain control, you'll have to find a way of working around this. I find the F-series responds well to both controlling from the guitar's volume knob (see the Gain Sound with HBs clip in my sig) and also a clean boost pedal (I use a vintage Dynacomp to achieve this). :)

Big smiles,

Andy.

markmann

12-21-2005, 06:26 AM

Originally posted by Antti Loponen
My only complaint is that I cannot balance the distortion channel with and without contour boost. Either the normal channel has too much distortion or the countoured not enough. I like to have two levels of distortion and wouldn't want to use pedals for that.When I first auditioned the F50 I came to the realization that it is a two channel amp and the the contour would not work as a third channel for me. For that reason I almost bought a Nomad but in the end the F50 sounded better so I bought it.

There will always be a debate over tube distotion vs pedal distortion... I use the best of both worlds. The F50 can obviously get two great sounds with the press of a button, for me that's an amazing clean tone and one equally amazing distortion tone. I occasionally engage the contour to help a solo cut through a mix.

Besides being a tube-tone loving guitarist I am also a self admitted pedal junky and I seem to always have one or two distortion pedals on my board at all times. Depending on the material I'll be playing I use the F50 for the hard to get breakup tone and a pedal for the heavier stuff. I've gone through a lot of distortion pedals and I have a couple that I just love so I don't have an issue with this setup. Since the F50 takes pedals well I'm able to get great tube AND pedal tone and have the equivalent of a four or five channel amp.

GCDEF

12-21-2005, 06:39 AM

Personally, I love the contour switch and it's one of the reasons I bought the amp. I've owned a number of amps with a solo boost, and every one of them was way too loud to be useful. The contour lets your guitar jump out of the mix without a huge jump in volume. For me, it does just what it's supposed to better than any other amp I've tried.

markmann

12-21-2005, 06:50 AM

I agree, that's why I don't set my base tone with the contour engaged.

prsplayer333

12-21-2005, 09:25 AM

I've been in the market for a new amp for a while. Something that will work well at basement volumes. I'm torn between the f-30 and a Hot Cat. Can the f-30 get Lamb of God and early 311 tones on the contuer channel? I'd also like to be able to put a fuzz in front of the crunch channel to get the Fu Manchu fuzz sound. Am I asking too much out of the f-30. Versitality in a small combo that sounds good at lower volumes is basically what I'm looking for.

Yes, I have read through most of this thread. It's getting a bit overwhelming nowadays.

Cheers.

cacheek

12-23-2005, 03:54 PM

How much would a new f-100 cost? Anybody know the exact list price? Thanks!

ned911

12-23-2005, 04:22 PM

Originally posted by cacheek
How much would a new f-100 cost? Anybody know the exact list price? Thanks!

Mesa price list is posted at The Boogie Board (http://forum.grailtone.com) check under Modern Amps

cacheek

12-23-2005, 04:55 PM

How much do the f-100s usually go for on ebay? Or, does anyone know where else I might find one used?

ned911

12-23-2005, 07:15 PM

Use the completed listings option on the eBay search to get an idea.

I'm looking for a F-30 short head.

cacheek

12-23-2005, 07:37 PM

how do you check completed auctions?

ned911

12-23-2005, 09:11 PM

Try using the advanced search feature.

jem7vwh

12-23-2005, 09:30 PM

I am about to buy an F-30, will a Boss GT-8 work alright for effects? I heard that since the Mesas have parallel fx loops, it wont work well.

hal9000

12-24-2005, 06:30 AM

Originally posted by jem7vwh
I am about to buy an F-30, will a Boss GT-8 work alright for effects? I heard that since the Mesas have parallel fx loops, it wont work well. The G-Major works wonderfully in the loop of my F-100 as does my PODxt Live. You just have to make sure the GT-8 can accept the higher voltage pro line level designed for rack FX. Most of the disdain for FX in a Mesa loop stems from the rectifier line which can have a phasing sound if the levels aren't set correctly. So, check the manual, or even better, take a trip to a music store and try out the GT-8/F-30 combination to see if it works for you. As far as setup for FX on the F-30, the parallel loop should be dialed in for 90% (full up) and the masters on each channel determine the send level to the loop. So, if something isn't working quite right, you may need to play with the levels.

BTW, have you considered a G-Major? It really depends on how you intend to use your FX, but many F-series users employ a G-Major and I highly recommend them.

Kilgore

12-24-2005, 01:43 PM

Merry Christmas everybody!

Health & Happiness to you and Yours for the upcoming year...

and may you all find your Holy Grail of Tone!

Kilgore.

VoodooChild24

12-24-2005, 03:08 PM

Merry Chirstmas to all my F-series brothers!! Mojos coming your way from me and my family!

nifty50

12-24-2005, 04:40 PM

Merry Christmas to All

have a safe and Merry Holiday

Ho Ho Ho

Brian Chan

12-26-2005, 04:38 AM

Hi folks

I am thinking to sell my entire rack (except G major and power conditioner) to get a F-50 combo.

?http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v685/Brian_Infinity/IMG_3320.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v685/Brian_Infinity/IMG_3308.jpg

My setup would be F-50> Boogie Recto 2x12 cabinet. G major will be set in the effect loop and use it as a device to swicth my combo via midi.

Any thoughts?

Dann'sTheMan

12-26-2005, 04:48 PM

Originally posted by Brian Chan
Hi folks

I am thinking to sell my entire rack (except G major and power conditioner) to get a F-50 combo.

<snip\>

My setup would be F-50> Boogie Recto 2x12 cabinet. G major will be set in the effect loop and use it as a device to swicth my combo via midi.

Any thoughts?

Hi Brian,

and welcome to the Lounge. Your suggestion seems excellent - but then I'm a little biased. :p Two other F-series owners come immediately to mind as players who use a G-Major to switch their F-series:

* Tommi Inkila uses one with a F-50 head and a H&K 4x12 to play prog metal.
* hal9000 uses one with a F-100 combo (and an Avatar 2x12) to play rock and alt. rock
...and I use my F-50 combo to play many flavours of gospel and Christian music, from clean to mean.

IMHO, your proposed new set up will be as versatile as you need it to be. :thu:

Big smiles,

Andy.

jem7vwh

12-26-2005, 05:01 PM

Well, I just bought a Boss GT-8 thinking it would be as good as a real amp. Boy was I wrong. The amp models sounds like shit in my setup, and I realized I dont even use effects, so I'm going to return it on wednesday and hopefully scrape up enough cash for an F-30!

hal9000

12-27-2005, 07:50 AM

Do you all you guys with an F-50 1x12 combo have this protective screen?

http://i2.ebayimg.com/01/i/05/cf/c4/0d_1.JPG

My F-100 2x12 doesn't need one because of the 3/4-tuned back, but I've not seen this mesh before.

hal9000

12-27-2005, 07:56 AM

Originally posted by jem7vwh
Well, I just bought a Boss GT-8 thinking it would be as good as a real amp. Boy was I wrong. The amp models sounds like shit in my setup, and I realized I dont even use effects, so I'm going to return it on wednesday and hopefully scrape up enough cash for an F-30! Yeah, modelers don't have the feel right and that's why my modeling rig remains a backup. Playing through guitar speakers helps, but for pure amp modeling and feel, I like the Vox Tonelab SE the best. The PODxt Live OTOH has more options and has a more compact layout which suits me better.

There is a world of difference between playing a real amp and a modeler live as far as how it feels. I don't need 72 amps models anyway. I can get enough variation with my F-100 and (2) stage guitars to suit me just fine.

Good luck on your amp hunt! :)

panta1974

12-27-2005, 11:37 AM

Hello to all f-series brothers out there!!!
It's a great and inspiring place here with lots of great and useful information, what can I say, I am truly amazed!
I own an F-50 (for 2 years), a Mesa Boogie V-1 Bottle Rocket Overdrive, a BOSS GT-8 (only for FX, of course) hooked up in the fx loop (90% wet) using the 4-cable mode.
I use the clean channel of the F-50 which is truly great and when I want Overdrive/Distortion I kick in the V-1 and control the amount of OD/DS with the guitar volume, which is btw a Fender Startosonic, with a special wiring and modified with DiMarzio DLX Plus humbuckers in a P90 format.
The amp is on the floor (20cm near the wall), sitting on a GRAMMA by Auralex for acoustic isolation and tone purity (really great!!!).
I play in bedroom levels and of course I am not able to make optimal use of the amp and stuff (which is a pity, but I will use it some time outside), but either way I am very happy.
I want to underline the fact that i use crunch and lead (smooth, creamy time) with the exact settings on the clean channel and on the kicked V-1, by only turning up and down the volume of the guitar, which is great!
Btw, the GT-8 is not that bad for the effects, as somebody mentioned earlier. The delay types and some other effects are quite well (we own a Mesa Boogie amp, so we want to get the most out of this this tube monster and not of a digital preamp, don't we?).
I have not used the Channel 2+contour that much due to bedroom levels, but i think it will be great when I do so.
HAPPY NEW YEAR TO EVERYBODY!!!

Dann'sTheMan

12-27-2005, 04:53 PM

Originally posted by hal9000
Do you all you guys with an F-50 1x12 combo have this protective screen?

http://i2.ebayimg.com/01/i/05/cf/c4/0d_1.JPG

My F-100 2x12 doesn't need one because of the 3/4-tuned back, but I've not seen this mesh before.

I think that's an export model, or at least a European model - my F-50 has the mesh protector too. I believe the EU type approval regulations require additional protection from being burnt by the hot valves during use - hence the mesh protector that Mesa uses for this zone, rather than the silver bar that I believe is used on the US models:

http://www.geocities.com/crosseyedwillie/DSCN0522.jpg

Big smiles,

Andy.

Antti Loponen

12-27-2005, 05:02 PM

Originally posted by hal9000
Do you all you guys with an F-50 1x12 combo have this protective screen?

My F-30 has it.

VoodooChild24

12-27-2005, 05:06 PM

Originally posted by Brian Chan
Hi folks

I am thinking to sell my entire rack (except G major and power conditioner) to get a F-50 combo.

?http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v685/Brian_Infinity/IMG_3320.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v685/Brian_Infinity/IMG_3308.jpg

My setup would be F-50> Boogie Recto 2x12 cabinet. G major will be set in the effect loop and use it as a device to swicth my combo via midi.

Any thoughts?

Hi Brian,

Welcome to the brotherhood. As much as i don't have any experience to share regarding the G-major, i would say that you are going to like the F-50 when you get one. It is such a versatile amp and you can really get a lot of good tones on it, both clean and dirty channel.

Let us know once you get yours and hope to hear some clips from you man!

:thu:

Dann'sTheMan

12-27-2005, 05:07 PM

Originally posted by panta1974
Hello to all f-series brothers out there!!!
It's a great and inspiring place here with lots of great and useful information, what can I say, I am truly amazed!
I own an F-50 (for 2 years), a Mesa Boogie V-1 Bottle Rocket Overdrive, a BOSS GT-8 (only for FX, of course) hooked up in the fx loop (90% wet) using the 4-cable mode.
I use the clean channel of the F-50 which is truly great and when I want Overdrive/Distortion I kick in the V-1 and control the amount of OD/DS with the guitar volume, which is btw a Fender Startosonic, with a special wiring and modified with DiMarzio DLX Plus humbuckers in a P90 format.
The amp is on the floor (20cm near the wall), sitting on a GRAMMA by Auralex for acoustic isolation and tone purity (really great!!!).
I play in bedroom levels and of course I am not able to make optimal use of the amp and stuff (which is a pity, but I will use it some time outside), but either way I am very happy.
I want to underline the fact that i use crunch and lead (smooth, creamy time) with the exact settings on the clean channel and on the kicked V-1, by only turning up and down the volume of the guitar, which is great!
Btw, the GT-8 is not that bad for the effects, as somebody mentioned earlier. The delay types and some other effects are quite well (we own a Mesa Boogie amp, so we want to get the most out of this this tube monster and not of a digital preamp, don't we?).
I have not used the Channel 2+contour that much due to bedroom levels, but i think it will be great when I do so.
HAPPY NEW YEAR TO EVERYBODY!!!

Welcome panta1974,

A warm welcome to Harmony Central and to the F-series Lounge. :) I'm glad you're already finding the information here useful, and in my experience the entire brotherhood are always generous with their knowledge. :cool:

It's cool that you've got the flexibility that you desire out of your current rig. I've got a V-Twin pedal, and I must admit that my initial attempts to get it singing alongside my F-50 fell short of the tones I could get out of the amp's red channel. I should mention that I use my multi-FX unit to reduce the overall volume in the Loop (down to bedroom levels if necessary), and hence get the amp's Master Volume set to 10.00 or so, where the amp starts to Boogie. (There's more about this elsewhere in the Lounge).

On the flip side, I'm becoming more experienced with boosting my F-50, so I plan to experiment more with my V-Twin when I get it back - it's been out on loan with a friend since way back in April :p

Big smiles,

Andy.

Brian Chan

12-27-2005, 10:03 PM

Thanks everyone reply!

I knew that i need a Y cable for relay switching btw G major and F-50.

Is the one that made by Mario of axess electronics work with that?

Btw, hows does teh G major programme your relay switch function btw G major and F-50?

:)

overlandsea

12-27-2005, 11:04 PM

Originally posted by Brian Chan
Hi folks

I am thinking to sell my entire rack (except G major and power conditioner) to get a F-50 combo.

My setup would be F-50> Boogie Recto 2x12 cabinet. G major will be set in the effect loop and use it as a device to swicth my combo via midi.

Any thoughts?

hi, i'm new here, but i have a pretty similar setup to what you're talking about, and i love it. it's a F-50 head through a verticle 2x12 recto cab. it sounds awesome. every now and then i think about getting something that sounds better w/ open chords, but then i play this setup and it just sounds sooo good, i can't bear to part with it. i'm not sure about the effects thing, but the head/cab combination is awesome and saves a little space over a full half stack (not much weight compared to any other brand though!).

overlandsea

12-27-2005, 11:07 PM

on the subject of open chords....the f-50 isn't so hot for them i've found. i have a lot of jazz background, so even when i play heavy stuff i like open chords, but i've found they sound not so hot on the mesa (super muddy), but through a marshall they sound really nice. but for lead or power chords the F-50 is untouchable, so i'm kinda lost for what to do. anyone know of any settings for the distortion that will sound ok w/ open chords? i've tried tweaking a ton, but nothin'.

Brian Chan

12-27-2005, 11:56 PM

Originally posted by overlandsea

hi, i'm new here, but i have a pretty similar setup to what you're talking about, and i love it. it's a F-50 head through a verticle 2x12 recto cab. it sounds awesome. every now and then i think about getting something that sounds better w/ open chords, but then i play this setup and it just sounds sooo good, i can't bear to part with it. i'm not sure about the effects thing, but the head/cab combination is awesome and saves a little space over a full half stack (not much weight compared to any other brand though!).

Cool!

I have the horizontol one...:D

Do you use the combo speaker with your cabinet at the same time?

overlandsea

12-28-2005, 12:32 AM

i just have the head, so just the two speakers in the cab. looking back, a combo woulda been nice for portability cause a lot of the time i don't need the 2x12 and it's sooo heavy. oh well, works for now.

what speakers does your cab have? mine has the custom 90's and i love it, but i've really liked the v30's in other amps.

Brian Chan

12-28-2005, 01:25 AM

my cabinet has V30 speaker!!

but imo, V30 is a very mid rangy speaker..

how about the sound of C90?

Dann'sTheMan

12-28-2005, 01:47 AM

Originally posted by overlandsea
on the subject of open chords....the f-50 isn't so hot for them i've found. i have a lot of jazz background, so even when i play heavy stuff i like open chords, but i've found they sound not so hot on the mesa (super muddy), but through a marshall they sound really nice. but for lead or power chords the F-50 is untouchable, so i'm kinda lost for what to do. anyone know of any settings for the distortion that will sound ok w/ open chords? i've tried tweaking a ton, but nothin'.

Hi overlandsea,

Welcome to the Lounge. Regarding dialling a less thick tone that's good for open chord playing, try checking out the various "British" style settings that have been posted here by hal9000 and others. :cool:

They generally involve reducing the Treble to 9 o'clock or less, boosting the Mids to around 3 o'clock, and rolling the Bass back to around 10 o'clock (depending on the desired thickness). Here's one of mine that hal9000 was kind enough to draw out for everyone:

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y34/afraiddave/hal9000AndysModedMarshallTone.jpg

For added authenticity, try backing the gain off to 9 o'clock, and then using a clean boost pedal to get the required level of dirt. :)

Big smiles,

Andy.

ccelaya

12-28-2005, 02:02 AM

my baby...
the camera sucks, but it gives an idea of what my rig consists of
:p
it was worth the wait of the"special-order" and all the sacrifices that I had to do to afford it.
BTW thanks to dannstheman, tommi, and hal for keeping me motivated somehow :D

(these aren't my actual settings... they were that way after taking off the cover)
http://www.geocities.com/punk_dude_ranch/mesa-f-50.jpg

http://www.geocities.com/punk_dude_ranch/mesa-ibanez.jpg

and my amp in its PJ's ;)
http://www.geocities.com/punk_dude_ranch/mesa-pj.jpg

Dann'sTheMan

12-28-2005, 02:45 AM

Originally posted by Brian Chan
Thanks everyone reply!

I knew that i need a Y cable for relay switching btw G major and F-50.

Is the one that made by Mario of axess electronics work with that?

Btw, hows does teh G major programme your relay switch function btw G major and F-50?

:)

Hi Brian,

You'll need more than a simple Y-cable to switch the F-50, as it uses the less popular (but more versatile) 5-pin DIN connector for its footswitch.

If you have a soldering iron, then you can make one yourself (this is what Tommi Inkila, hal9000 and I did). Alternatively, I'm sure Mario of Axess, or JerryP of FJA mods would make one for you. All the information you will need is in the second post of this thread. You should also check out theG-Major Controller Tips thread (http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=975902). :cool:

Big smiles,

Andy.

Dann'sTheMan

12-28-2005, 02:48 AM

Originally posted by ccelaya
my baby...
the camera sucks, but it gives an idea of what my rig consists of
:p
it was worth the wait of the"special-order" and all the sacrifices that I had to do to afford it.
BTW thanks to dannstheman, tommi, and hal for keeping me motivated somehow :D

(these aren't my actual settings... they were that way after taking off the cover)
<snip/>

Yay! Welcome to the brotherhood, cceleya! Glad your Boogie is finally where it belongs. :D

Big smiles,

Andy.

ccelaya

12-28-2005, 02:55 AM

:thu:

panta1974

12-28-2005, 03:07 AM

Andy,
What I found really impressive is your custom cable.
Congratulations man, you really rock!!!
As I mentioned, I don't use the CH 2(+contour) and I would like to do such a thing but at the same time I would like to change patches on my GT-8. The GT-8 also has an amp control feature that allows channel switching on the amp.
Can you post or email me the cable diagram and some detail for it, because when i click on the link, it says no permission to access the file.
Buliding the cable, will be a good motivation for me to start using the CH 2(+contour) more often and discover some new great sounds!
Thank you

Antti Loponen

12-28-2005, 06:45 AM

It's my time to post pics and soundclips

http://www.cs.uta.fi/~al76016/kuvat/mesa/mesa1.jpg
My rig

http://www.cs.uta.fi/~al76016/kuvat/mesa/mesa2.jpg
The mic placement in my wardrobe closet

Soundclips:
Clean (http://www.cs.uta.fi/~al76016/mp3/Clean.mp3)
Strumming and arpeggiating (http://www.cs.uta.fi/~al76016/mp3/Strumming.mp3)
Overdrive (http://www.cs.uta.fi/~al76016/mp3/Drive.mp3)
Shredding with wah and delay (http://www.cs.uta.fi/~al76016/mp3/Shred.mp3)

Signal Path: Gibson SG -> Line6 Pod Xt Live -> Mesa F-30 -> Behringer SM58 clone -> Behringer mixer (flat) -> soundcard

XT Live used for effects (some eq and volume boost all the time, delay and wah)

Clips are normalized, but not processed in other ways.

:cool:

fancynapkin

12-28-2005, 06:37 PM

How is the f-50 on jazz? Im talking like hardcore gigging jazz. Enough headroom?
Also, would the f-50 benfit from JJ 6l6's?

fancynapkin

12-28-2005, 07:30 PM

/\/\

Dylan Walters

12-29-2005, 12:32 PM

This december marks the one year anniversary of my F-30 and I’m thinking that it might be time to swap the tubes out. I’ve left the amp in standy overnight a few times (oops) and the tone of the amp (especially the lead channels) doesn’t seem to be as good as it once was. How often do you guys swap the tubes out? Any recommendations for replacement tubes? Thanks in advance!

Antti Loponen

12-29-2005, 03:47 PM

I can't help with the two last questions, but I have two more soundclips:

Clean (http://www.cs.uta.fi/~al76016/mp3/Mesa_Cabsim_Clean.mp3)
Drive (http://www.cs.uta.fi/~al76016/mp3/Mesa_Cabsim_Drive.mp3)

This time it was Gibson SG -> Mesa F-30 -> effect send -> POD XT Live (cab and mic sims) -> computer

Dann'sTheMan

12-30-2005, 02:33 AM

Originally posted by fancynapkin
How is the f-50 on jazz? Im talking like hardcore gigging jazz. Enough headroom?
Also, would the f-50 benfit from JJ 6l6's?

Hi fancynapkin,

I'm afraid I'm not a hardcore gigging jazz cat, :p nevertheless, I've never run out of clean headroom with my F-50 combo, even with very loud outdoor gigs.

A loud indoor clean volume that comes to mind was when I played on an (extremely cramped) stage with a full band, full string section, full brass section, vocalists and a mass choir to make things nice and challenging - no problems whatsoever cutting through. Check out the Jazz and Soul video clips in my sig for some snippets. :)

If headroom really is a concern, then you may want to consider the F-100. It sounds very similar to the F-50 to my ears (perhaps even better on the clean side of things). The downside for me was that it's a heavy beast. Good luck with your search.

Big smiles,

Andy.

panta1974

12-30-2005, 04:08 AM

Hi Andy,
maybe you haven't seen this yet, so I am posting it once more. thanks

CUSTOM CABLE
Andy,
What I found really impressive is your custom cable.
Congratulations man, you really rock!!!
As I mentioned, I don't use the CH 2(+contour) and I would like to do such a thing but at the same time I would like to change patches on my GT-8. The GT-8 also has an amp control feature that allows channel switching on the amp.
Can you post or email me the cable diagram and some detail for it, because when i click on the link, it says no permission to access the file.
Buliding the cable, will be a good motivation for me to start using the CH 2(+contour) more often and discover some new great sounds!
Thank you

Dann'sTheMan

12-30-2005, 05:54 AM

Originally posted by panta1974
Hi Andy,
maybe you haven't seen this yet, so I am posting it once more. thanks

CUSTOM CABLE
Andy,
What I found really impressive is your custom cable.
Congratulations man, you really rock!!!
As I mentioned, I don't use the CH 2(+contour) and I would like to do such a thing but at the same time I would like to change patches on my GT-8. The GT-8 also has an amp control feature that allows channel switching on the amp.
Can you post or email me the cable diagram and some detail for it, because when i click on the link, it says no permission to access the file.
Buliding the cable, will be a good motivation for me to start using the CH 2(+contour) more often and discover some new great sounds!
Thank you

Hi panta1974,

I haven't forgotten about your post - I just needed to gather together some information for you. Unfortunately TC Electronic have taken down the info for making custom cables for more modern Boogie amps, as Mesa have highlighted that they need an independent ground (http://tcsupport.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/tcsupport.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=1766&p_created=1129539134&p_sid=vr7hAlYh&p_lva=&p_sp=cF9zcmNoPTEmcF9zb3J0X2J5PSZwX2dyaWRzb3J0PSZwX 3Jvd19jbnQ9MTImcF9wcm9kcz0xLDExJnBfY2F0cz0wJnBfcHY 9Mi4xMSZwX2N2PSZwX3NlYXJjaF90eXBlPWFuc3dlcnMuc2Vhc mNoX25sJnBfc2NmX2FjY2Vzc19sZXZlbF9pZD1_dXNlcl9hY2N lc3N_JnBfcGFnZT0xJnBfc2VhcmNoX3RleHQ9TWVzYSBSZWN0a WZpZXIgRm9vdHN3aXRjaA**&p_li=&p_topview=1).

Nevertheless, the Mesa footswitch schematic (http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/attachment.php?postid=12175630) shows the F-series utilises a common ground, so there should be no problems with our custom cable approach.

So here's an alternative custom cable schematic to use as a starting point: http://training.tcelectronic.tc/Files/Training/TCSI/images/answers/891/Laney_GMajor.pdf

It highlights that the G-Major contains two relays for controlling up to two functions on the F-series via a 1/4" TRS i.e. Tip/Ring/Sleeve (aka "stereo") connector. In the TC Electronic diagram, the wires from the amp are shown going to tags on the 1/4" TRS connector on the right. FYI, the tags are drawn as:

* Ring at the top (pointing diagonally towards 10 o'clock),
* Tip in the middle (pointing horizontally towards 9 o'clock)
* Sleeve at the bottom (the long one)

You're already familiar with the details at the amp end:

http://www.dspglobal.com/adapt%205-pin%20DIN%20schem.jpg
Pin 1 - Ground
Pin 4 - Channel 1/2 toggling
Pin 2 - Contour On/Off
Pin 5 - Reverb On/Off
Pin 3 - Not Used

So bringing all of this information together, we see:
Pin 1 (Ground) from the F-series needs to connect to the Sleeve.

The "function pins" (Pins 4, 2 and 5) connect to the appropriate tags that are available, e.g.:
* on a G-Major, I connected pins 4 and 2 to the Tip and the Ring respectively.
* on a FCB1010, I connected pins 4 and 2 to the two Tips respectively.
(I leave Pin 5 disconnected (thus permanently ON), as neither the G-Major nor the FCB1010 have a third relay for controlling this third "function pin").
* for the GT-8, IIRC it only has ONE Relay for controlling one function on an external amps. This may be too limiting, as you wouldn't be able to move between Chan 1/2 AND select Contour On/Off. However, you could work around this limitation by using your GT-8 to control a MIDI function switcher like the CFX4 from Axess Electronics (http://www.axess-electronics.com/) or the MS-4 from Nobels (http://www.nobels.com/en/index.htm).

Let me know if this helps, and if there is anything I can further clarify. In the meantime, Happy New Year to the entire brotherhood :)

Big smiles,

Andy.

ThunderDump

12-30-2005, 06:43 AM

I am so tempted to trade my bassman combo for an F-50. I tried one out last week and was impressed.

panta1974

12-30-2005, 08:12 AM

Originally posted by Dann'sTheMan

Hi panta1974,

I haven't forgotten about your post - I just needed to gather together some information for you. Unfortunately TC Electronic have taken down the info for making custom cables for more modern Boogie amps, as Mesa have highlighted that they need an independent ground (http://tcsupport.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/tcsupport.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=1766&p_created=1129539134&p_sid=vr7hAlYh&p_lva=&p_sp=cF9zcmNoPTEmcF9zb3J0X2J5PSZwX2dyaWRzb3J0PSZwX 3Jvd19jbnQ9MTImcF9wcm9kcz0xLDExJnBfY2F0cz0wJnBfcHY 9Mi4xMSZwX2N2PSZwX3NlYXJjaF90eXBlPWFuc3dlcnMuc2Vhc mNoX25sJnBfc2NmX2FjY2Vzc19sZXZlbF9pZD1_dXNlcl9hY2N lc3N_JnBfcGFnZT0xJnBfc2VhcmNoX3RleHQ9TWVzYSBSZWN0a WZpZXIgRm9vdHN3aXRjaA**&p_li=&p_topview=1).

Nevertheless, the Mesa footswitch schematic (http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/attachment.php?postid=12175630) shows the F-series utilises a common ground, so there should be no problems with our custom cable approach.

So here's an alternative custom cable schematic to use as a starting point: http://training.tcelectronic.tc/Files/Training/TCSI/images/answers/891/Laney_GMajor.pdf

It highlights that the G-Major contains two relays for controlling up to two functions on the F-series via a 1/4" TRS i.e. Tip/Ring/Sleeve (aka "stereo") connector. In the TC Electronic diagram, the wires from the amp are shown going to tags on the 1/4" TRS connector on the right. FYI, the tags are drawn as:

* Ring at the top (pointing diagonally towards 10 o'clock),
* Tip in the middle (pointing horizontally towards 9 o'clock)
* Sleeve at the bottom (the long one)

You're already familiar with the details at the amp end:

http://www.dspglobal.com/adapt%205-pin%20DIN%20schem.jpg
Pin 1 - Ground
Pin 4 - Channel 1/2 toggling
Pin 2 - Contour On/Off
Pin 5 - Reverb On/Off
Pin 3 - Not Used

So bringing all of this information together, we see:
Pin 1 (Ground) from the F-series needs to connect to the Sleeve.

The "function pins" (Pins 4, 2 and 5) connect to the appropriate tags that are available, e.g.:
* on a G-Major, I connected pins 4 and 2 to the Tip and the Ring respectively.
* on a FCB1010, I connected pins 4 and 2 to the two Tips respectively.
(I leave Pin 5 disconnected (thus permanently ON), as neither the G-Major nor the FCB1010 have a third relay for controlling this third "function pin").
* for the GT-8, IIRC it only has ONE Relay for controlling one function on an external amps. This may be too limiting, as you wouldn't be able to move between Chan 1/2 AND select Contour On/Off. However, you could work around this limitation by using your GT-8 to control a MIDI function switcher like the CFX4 from Axess Electronics (http://www.axess-electronics.com/) or the MS-4 from Nobels (http://www.nobels.com/en/index.htm).

Let me know if this helps, and if there is anything I can further clarify. In the meantime, Happy New Year to the entire brotherhood :)

Big smiles,

Andy.

Andy,
thank you so much for being so helpful!
Can you make something clear, when you said that the GT-8 has only one relay, you mean I cannot go from Ch1 to Contour and vice versa (cause that is the only function I am planning to use).
What this means is that I can go from clean to Lead only?
I don't know if i understood correctly

Just a thing to

panta1974

12-30-2005, 08:13 AM

hal9000

12-30-2005, 11:43 AM

Antti Loponen

12-30-2005, 12:16 PM

One more set of clips though no one is commenting :D

Clean channel:
Clean (http://www.cs.uta.fi/~al76016/mp3/Stereo_Clean.mp3)
Lead channel:
Drive (http://www.cs.uta.fi/~al76016/mp3/Stereo_Drive.mp3)
Noodling (http://www.cs.uta.fi/~al76016/mp3/Stereo_Noodle.mp3)
Lead with contour:
Crunch (http://www.cs.uta.fi/~al76016/mp3/Stereo_Crunch.mp3)
Lead (http://www.cs.uta.fi/~al76016/mp3/Stereo_Lead.mp3)

I had two mics set up: A Behringer SM58 clone right at the speaker (left channel) and a T-Bone condenser mic 2 feet away (right channel).

overlandsea

12-30-2005, 02:19 PM

Originally posted by Dann'sTheMan

Hi overlandsea,

Welcome to the Lounge. Regarding dialling a less thick tone that's good for open chord playing, try checking out the various "British" style settings that have been posted here by hal9000 and others. :cool:

<snip>

They generally involve reducing the Treble to 9 o'clock or less, boosting the Mids to around 3 o'clock, and rolling the Bass back to around 10 o'clock (depending on the desired thickness). Here's one of mine that hal9000 was kind enough to draw out for everyone:

For added authenticity, try backing the gain off to 9 o'clock, and then using a clean boost pedal to get the required level of dirt. :)

Big smiles,

Andy.

awesome, this sounds great! just what i was looking for. now i love this amp even more. thanks for the idea!

overlandsea

12-30-2005, 02:23 PM

Originally posted by Brian Chan
my cabinet has V30 speaker!!

but imo, V30 is a very mid rangy speaker..

how about the sound of C90?

i think the C90 works well if you want straight rock tone. i've had other amps w/ V30s in the past, and it's definately a warmer sound than the C90-like you said, largely cause of the midrange. i think mesas already have quite a bit of midrange, so i like the C90, but i know the clean channel would be a bit better if i was using V30s. i'm contemplating using maybe one of each. wonder if anyone has tried this?

Dann'sTheMan

12-30-2005, 04:14 PM

Originally posted by panta1974

Andy,
thank you so much for being so helpful!
Can you make something clear, when you said that the GT-8 has only one relay, you mean I cannot go from Ch1 to Contour and vice versa (cause that is the only function I am planning to use).
What this means is that I can go from clean to Lead only?
I don't know if i understood correctly

Hi panta1974,

Glad to help :) As hal9000 has already confirmed, you can certainly achieve what you want.

You will use your GT-8 to switch "function pin" 4, as this toggles between Channels 1 and 2.

In addition, "function pin 2" determines what flavour of Channel 2 will be selected - either Contour ON or OFF. Therefore, in your custom cable, you can hardwire pin 2 to Ground (pin 1), or alternatively leave it disconnected, and thus get the desired Channel 2 flavour whenever pin 4 selects Channel 2. :cool:

I happen to agree with hal9000 that you might be doing yourself a disservice by ruling out non-Contour Channel 2 tones, especially as you only have limited experience of hearing the amp with the Master Volumes above 9 o'clock.

I would encourage you to try setting your Channel 2 Master Volume to 10 o'clock, and then using your GT-8's Output Volume to bring the overall volume level down to something bearable. IMHO, there are some world class tones in your Boogie on Channel 2, both with and without Contour. :)

Big smiles,

Andy.

Dann'sTheMan

12-30-2005, 04:20 PM

Originally posted by Antti Loponen
One more set of clips though no one is commenting :D

Clean channel:
Clean (http://www.cs.uta.fi/~al76016/mp3/Stereo_Clean.mp3)
Lead channel:
Drive (http://www.cs.uta.fi/~al76016/mp3/Stereo_Drive.mp3)
Noodling (http://www.cs.uta.fi/~al76016/mp3/Stereo_Noodle.mp3)
Lead with contour:
Crunch (http://www.cs.uta.fi/~al76016/mp3/Stereo_Crunch.mp3)
Lead (http://www.cs.uta.fi/~al76016/mp3/Stereo_Lead.mp3)

I had two mics set up: A Behringer SM58 clone right at the speaker (left channel) and a T-Bone condenser mic 2 feet away (right channel).

Hi Antii,

I've been meaning to post a comment about these useful clips that you are posting - good job. I particularly liked the Crunch one above and the cab simmed Drive one earlier.

They really highlight some of the more British overtones of the F-30, very cool. You playing was sweet also - I like your vibrato and your carefully controlled and intonated bends. Great job. :)

If it's OK, I'll add these clips to the F-series Clip Library at the start of the thread. :cool:

Big smiles,

Andy.

Antti Loponen

12-30-2005, 05:18 PM

Originally posted by Dann'sTheMan

Hi Antii,

I've been meaning to post a comment about these useful clips that you are posting - good job. I particularly liked the Crunch one above and the cab simmed Drive one earlier.

If it's OK, I'll add these clips to the F-series Clip Library at the start of the thread. :cool:

Thanks a lot! Just go ahead and add the clips, I just hope I don't delete them accidentally. The contents of that folder lives all the time...

And it's funny that no one ever spells my name correctly. :D

Watroba

12-30-2005, 05:21 PM

This question is aimed at, but not limited to, all of the experienced F-50 owners. I'm sorry if this question has been answered before. I just stumbled across this thread today, and am seriously looking at the F-50.

Do you ever feel that the Contour switch is sort of a one trick feature due to its un-tweakable EQ? Do you see it as more of a bonus, and not a selling point or main tonal aim of the amplifier?

I appreaciate your responses. I love everyone's down to earth seriousness here. Definately a "no junk" thread!

Thanks!

--Watroba

PS: I'm looking for a smaller, more affordable high-gain lead based tube combo. I play 85% leads, and need something that has a well rounded, warm/fat scream. Think Vai/Petrucci.

hal9000

12-30-2005, 06:40 PM

Originally posted by Watroba
This question is aimed at, but not limited to, all of the experienced F-50 owners. I'm sorry if this question has been answered before. I just stumbled across this thread today, and am seriously looking at the F-50.

Do you ever feel that the Contour switch is sort of a one trick feature due to its un-tweakable EQ? Do you see it as more of a bonus, and not a selling point or main tonal aim of the amplifier?

I appreaciate your responses. I love everyone's down to earth seriousness here. Definately a "no junk" thread!

Thanks!

--Watroba

PS: I'm looking for a smaller, more affordable high-gain lead based tube combo. I play 85% leads, and need something that has a well rounded, warm/fat scream. Think Vai/Petrucci. Watroba, welcome to the forum and the lounge! :)

The contour question is a good one, and is part of the charm of the F-series amps. Like many of Randall Smith's designs the F-series has more than one mode on the overdrive channel. Unlike other Mesa's though, contour is footswitchable which makes it even sweeter. I tend to look at contour as the modern voicing switch on the amp where the regular CH2 overdrive has more of a vintage tone. I’ve used contour as both a third channel and a boost for solos and I’ve been pleased with the results. As a boost for solos it seems almost perfectly tuned to me in that it raises the output about 3 dB. As a third channel I use contour for all of my modern tones. With my G-major I equalize the contour mode by dropping the output 3 dB so the only difference in the two modes is the voicing. Contour ups the gain a bit, engages Mesa’s classic EQ in a “V” shape and affects the negative feedback for a rawer feel. CH2 is no slouch though as its vintage voice and fat lead sound make for awesome tones as well. I primarily use CH2 for my solos and lower gain or more vintage chording. Surprisingly, contour also does very well with the vintage high gain sounds given a lower gain approach and also crunches nicely. When you audition an F-series check out my recommended settings to give you a head start with the controls. Good luck.

Antti Loponen

12-31-2005, 02:26 AM

Contour is more like a vintage/modern mode switch for the distortion channel. However, I can use it as a third channel but it's really hard to find the sweet spot on the gain pot

Tommi Inkila

12-31-2005, 05:16 AM

ned911

12-31-2005, 07:00 AM

Tommi-

On the compilation clip on the website could you pass along the settings for the lead in the very first clip.

Dann'sTheMan

12-31-2005, 08:54 AM

Originally posted by Watroba
This question is aimed at, but not limited to, all of the experienced F-50 owners. I'm sorry if this question has been answered before. I just stumbled across this thread today, and am seriously looking at the F-50.

Do you ever feel that the Contour switch is sort of a one trick feature due to its un-tweakable EQ? Do you see it as more of a bonus, and not a selling point or main tonal aim of the amplifier?

I appreaciate your responses. I love everyone's down to earth seriousness here. Definately a "no junk" thread!

Thanks!

--Watroba

PS: I'm looking for a smaller, more affordable high-gain lead based tube combo. I play 85% leads, and need something that has a well rounded, warm/fat scream. Think Vai/Petrucci.

Hi Watroba,

and welcome to HCAF - it's :cool: that you're making your first post here in the F-series Lounge. :)

Regarding your question, I've certainly come across this misconception before. When Mesa say that the F-series has a fixed EQ in Contour mode, they do not mean that the sound is untweakable. This is because the F-series has in fact two EQ circuits.

Mesa have become known for having two EQ circuits in many of their amp designs. One, a typical Treble-Middle-Bass tone stack circuit that is part of the pre-amp design. The second, an EQ circuit that is often presented via Boogie's well known Graphic Equaliser interface.

The F-series has both of these EQ circuits: TMB and Equaliser. However the Equaliser circuit is not accessed via a full Graphic Equaliser interface, rather the circuit is fixed as if a V curve had been set on the Graphic. When Contour mode is selected on the F-series, this Equaliser circuit is switched in, along with some other circuit changes, all of which add up to a more aggressive voicing that goes all the way up to Modern Rectifier territory. :cool:

Nevertheless, this aggressive voicing can indeed be tweaked with the first EQ circuit i.e. the normal Treble-Middle-Bass controls. There are lots of gorgeous sounds to be found in Contour mode, from presence laden clean sounds, through modded Marshall tones, to snarling Recto. Definitely not a one trick pony. :p Best wishes in your search. :)

Big smiles,

Andy.

Tommi Inkila

12-31-2005, 10:27 AM

Originally posted by ned911
Tommi-

On the compilation clip on the website could you pass along the settings for the lead in the very first clip.
The settings were:

Ch2 with contour
Gain 13:00
Treble 13:00
Middle 13:30
Bass 11:00
Reverb off
Master 9:45

Basicly I used the same setting throughout the album, but since every other sounds that surrounds it (the overall EQ spectrum) affects the end reulsts, it sounds different on some other songs. The solo over trancebeat later on that clip is with the same settings, but this time I added a little bit extra reverb to make the sound blend in to the "trance".

Watroba

12-31-2005, 11:32 AM

Thank you everyone for your prompt responses. I will respond to Andy's post in particular.

Originally posted by Dann'sTheMan

Hi Watroba,

and welcome to HCAF - it's :cool: that you're making your first post here in the F-series Lounge. :)

Regarding your question, I've certainly come across this misconception before. When Mesa say that the F-series has a fixed EQ in Contour mode, they do not mean that the sound is untweakable. This is because the F-series has in fact two EQ circuits.

Mesa have become known for having two EQ circuits in many of their amp designs. One, a typical Treble-Middle-Bass tone stack circuit that is part of the pre-amp design. The second, an EQ circuit that is often presented via Boogie's well known Graphic Equaliser interface.

The F-series has both of these EQ circuits: TMB and Equaliser. However the Equaliser circuit is not accessed via a full Graphic Equaliser interface, rather the circuit is fixed as if a V curve had been set on the Graphic. When Contour mode is selected on the F-series, this Equaliser circuit is switched in, along with some other circuit changes, all of which add up to a more aggressive voicing that goes all the way up to Modern Rectifier territory. :cool:

Nevertheless, this aggressive voicing can indeed be tweaked with the first EQ circuit i.e. the normal Treble-Middle-Bass controls. There are lots of gorgeous sounds to be found in Contour mode, from presence laden clean sounds, through modded Marshall tones, to snarling Recto. Definitely not a one trick pony. :p Best wishes in your search. :)

Big smiles,

Andy.

Andy,

I love the closeness here!

You explained the contour very well. There is one thing that I would like to clarify, however. You stated that the contour is in fact tweakable with the first 3 band EQ circuit. Does this make it as malleable as another normal channel? I've heard this comparison before, but in reality, just how tweakable is it? If I wanted to have the contour sound, but with an enchanced midrange, is it possible? Moreover, do you feel that contour caters more towards rhythm playing with its scooped presets?

I'm bringing home a slightly used F-50 combo for $850 (good deal?) this coming Monday to test drive it on my own time. So excited!

Thanks!

-Brian

PS: Tommi -- I love the clips man! You have a very solid band. The normal plague of prog. style groups is usually the vocals, which can be erratic and very 80's. You've got great leading vocals, and the guitar tones are solid. Keep it up.

Tommi Inkila

12-31-2005, 01:00 PM

PS: Tommi -- I love the clips man! You have a very solid band. The normal plague of prog. style groups is usually the vocals, which can be erratic and very 80's. You've got great leading vocals, and the guitar tones are solid. Keep it up. [/B]
Thanks a lot man and welcome to the brotherhood!

Only problem with Mikko's vocals is that it cuts the usual share of girl groupies from the lead guitarist :p

Dann'sTheMan

12-31-2005, 02:59 PM

Originally posted by Watroba
Thank you everyone for your prompt responses. I will respond to Andy's post in particular.

Andy,

I love the closeness here!

You explained the contour very well. There is one thing that I would like to clarify, however. You stated that the contour is in fact tweakable with the first 3 band EQ circuit. Does this make it as malleable as another normal channel? I've heard this comparison before, but in reality, just how tweakable is it? If I wanted to have the contour sound, but with an enchanced midrange, is it possible? Moreover, do you feel that contour caters more towards rhythm playing with its scooped presets?

I'm bringing home a slightly used F-50 combo for $850 (good deal?) this coming Monday to test drive it on my own time. So excited!

Thanks!

-Brian

PS: Tommi -- I love the clips man! You have a very solid band. The normal plague of prog. style groups is usually the vocals, which can be erratic and very 80's. You've got great leading vocals, and the guitar tones are solid. Keep it up.

Hi Brian,

There is a genuine closeness here amongst the F-series brotherhood, and the sense of community extends amongst certain other regulars here at HCAF. With a forum as large and as fast moving as HCAF, you will certainly find all types, but I am sincerely thrilled that there are so many knowledgeable, talented and generous F-series owners that have chosen to gather here. :cool:

Regarding the malleability of the Contour mode, the key thing to remember is that Mesas have interactive EQ controls. The most powerful is the Gain control, followed closely by the Treble, then the Mids, and finally the Bass. The higher any one of these controls is set (especially the more powerful ones), the less effect the other controls will have.

In practise, what this means is that if you were to crank the Gain and the Treble, the other two controls will have a more subtle effect - especially beyond 12 o'clock. However, if you were to crank the Gain and the Mids, then the other two controls would have a more pronounced effect below 12 o'clock.

It does take time to master, but the result is a highly flexible and wide range of tonalities - even in Contour mode. There are some awesome Rhythm tones in this mode with the Mids at say 11 o'clock, however as the Mids go past 12 o'clock, lead players are imho even better served. There are lots of stunning lead sounds to be found in Channel 2, both with and without Contour - you may be interested to know that most of the home recorded clips in my sig were recorded with Contour mode.

I'd highly recommend using hal9000's excellent audition settings to get a head start (and note the Master Volume usually needs to be up over 9 o'clock to get the amp properly working - I use the volume-pedal-in-the-loop trick to the keep the overall levels under control). Let us know how you get on. :)

Big smiles,

Andy.

P.S. FWIW, the F-50 is one of only a handful of amps ever to win UK Guitarist magazine's top "Gold" accolade - check out the review here (http://www.mesaboogie.com/Reviews/guitarist-F-50/Guitarist_f-50.htm). :cool:

JMAN60

01-01-2006, 01:30 PM

Originally posted by Tommi Inkila

Thanks a lot man and welcome to the brotherhood!

Only problem with Mikko's vocals is that it cuts the usual share of girl groupies from the lead guitarist :p

Thanx Tommy for mentioning this forum. Nice sound clips too!!!
I never thought I would see a forum quite like this and being
a F-50 owner it's great to see such a following for this amp!!!

Gazz

01-02-2006, 03:56 AM

Hi Guys

Found a 10 year old Boss SE50 ~I had lying about in my studio and thought I wouyld hook it up to the F50 combo I have.

Wow! it works great. Firstly some of the best reverbs I have ever heard, also you can attenuate the master volume down so that you can get the channel volume up in the dirt channel to make the amp breath, exactly as Hal & Tommy suggested. Get that pot to 10'ocloick and you have got every kind of overdrive and disy you could ever want.

I only use it for verbs and delays, dont like chorus/flange etc etc.
I used my old SG and by rolling down the volume pot on the guitar and varying the input gain I got, warm break up a la SRV, add a bit more and you have ACDC, wind it up a bit more and I got gary Moore, abit more and you are into shred county a bit like Vai and Satriani.

this is the best Amp I have ever owned, period!

The interaction of the eq gives some lovely variations, but you gotta keep the master volume up otherwise it strangles the sound.

Well done you guys

Gazz

01-02-2006, 03:56 AM

Gazz

01-02-2006, 03:56 AM

fancynapkin

01-02-2006, 01:11 PM

ugh, I went to GC to try out an f-50 and these lame kids were having a jam session on them. Its like they couldnt book a gig so they spend their day wanking on pentatonics with the mids completely scooped. Mesa's seem to attract alot of really bad players around here, especially the triple rectos. Most people dont even understand what a rectifier is, they just think the more you have of them, the heavier your tone is. But from the looks of it, an f-50 is in my future. Now I just need $1100...

ccelaya

01-02-2006, 01:50 PM

Originally posted by fancynapkin
ugh, I went to GC to try out an f-50 and these lame kids were having a jam session on them. Its like they couldnt book a gig so they spend their day wanking on pentatonics with the mids completely scooped. Mesa's seem to attract alot of really bad players around here, especially the triple rectos. Most people dont even understand what a rectifier is, they just think the more you have of them, the heavier your tone is. But from the looks of it, an f-50 is in my future. Now I just need $1100...

+tax!:thu:

blacksunshine

01-02-2006, 07:20 PM

i am new to this forum and i bought the f-50 about a month or so ago. I loved this amp when I played it at the music shop. I current play an epiphone les paul custom with dual emg 81's.

I run my guitar thru a crybaby from hell-->
boss super overdrive-->
mxr phase-->
boss super chorus-->

to the amp. I am interested in a good metal tone. Something along the lines of metallica. I noticed someone here did a version of SKOM. Does anyone know what the settings was?
Thanks.

hal9000

01-02-2006, 07:34 PM

Originally posted by blacksunshine
i am new to this forum and i bought the f-50 about a month or so ago. I loved this amp when I played it at the music shop. I current play an epiphone les paul custom with dual emg 81's.

I run my guitar thru a crybaby from hell-->
boss super overdrive-->
mxr phase-->
boss super chorus-->

to the amp. I am interested in a good metal tone. Something along the lines of metallica. I noticed someone here did a version of SKOM. Does anyone know what the settings was?
Thanks. Welcome to the forum and the F-series brotherhood!

The SKOM clip is mine, however, I wasn't really trying to cop their tone, rather I was just playing a heavy riff with this setting:

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y34/afraiddave/hal9000HumbuckerMetalRhythmCH2Contour.jpg

Let me know what you think. I used a Fernandes Ravelle Limited with a Duncan Custom in the bridge. I've not played an EMG 81 through an F-series, so this setting might not work at all.

BTW, have you tried the chorus in the loop?

klvanzu

01-02-2006, 08:13 PM

I JUST BOUGHT AN F-50 HEAD....YEAH!!!!!!! hopefully it's as good as it sounds here and better!

blacksunshine

01-02-2006, 08:30 PM

no I havent but i might do that later on tonight or tomorrow. I do have a question for ya cause I see you have been on here for a while...what do you know about groove tubes? I was thinking of putting them in my boogie.

hal9000

01-02-2006, 08:44 PM

Originally posted by blacksunshine
no I havent but i might do that later on tonight or tomorrow. I do have a question for ya cause I see you have been on here for a while...what do you know about groove tubes? I was thinking of putting them in my boogie. Basically, you can use any tube that falls within Mesa's spec, just talk to the supplier and make sure they guarantee their tubes for Mesa's amps.

blacksunshine

01-02-2006, 08:54 PM

Thanks for the help. I will be sure to talk to the guys where I bought the amp. They are a certified mesa dealer so they should be able to answer my questions. You suggested putting the chorus thru the fx loop...what about the phase?

Daneswede1

01-02-2006, 09:15 PM

Go buy a Marshall and stop crying:thu: :D :cool: :idea: :

I was thinking about trading my MINT 1981 Marshall JCM800 2203 100 watt head for an F SEries Mesa? YOur thoughts on that one :>)?

Gazz

01-03-2006, 01:41 AM

Hi Daneswead

Hmmm thats an interesting question because they are 2 different amps/sounds altogether.

20 years ago I had a Jcm800 twin 50 watt combo which at the time was considered to be right up there in terms of sound. I used a few pedals to goose the front end, because the amp on it own was pretty sterile uinles you maxed everything.

Then along came processors, I had one of the original Boss ME4, so now I could program my sound in a patch( for the first time) and I was in sonic heavan.

So the amp on its own is powerful but without some kind of prcoessor its very limited. Now the F50 is a different beast alotogether very versatile, you still need to hook it up to some kind of processing to fully utilise it but in a different way.

The sounds are different but no less satisfying.

My advice keep the MArshall AND get the F50!

Gazz

01-03-2006, 02:46 AM

I was wondering what people are using in the loop for effects and power attenuation?

Anybody tried any multple ffects pedals? I know they are supposed to be used in the front end, but if you only use them for time based effects then what are peoples's experiences.

I have aone of the new zoom G2 pedals and wondered if anyone has tried that yet?

Cheers

Dann'sTheMan

01-03-2006, 07:53 AM

Originally posted by Gazz
I was wondering what people are using in the loop for effects and power attenuation?

Anybody tried any multple ffects pedals? I know they are supposed to be used in the front end, but if you only use them for time based effects then what are peoples's experiences.

I have aone of the new zoom G2 pedals and wondered if anyone has tried that yet?

Cheers

Hi Gaz,

For the "volume-pedal-in-the-loop trick", I've used a Zoom 9030 and currently use a TC Electronic G-Major with my F-50 combo. I used to use a Zoom 9001 in the loop of my old Fender combo, and I've only ever used these units for time based effects and volume control.

I believe some of the brothers have had good results using a simple volume pedal in the loop of the F-series, and hal9000 has gone as far as building a loop attenuator box for an earlier rig setup, so he could switch between two preset volume levels.

The key thing, as you've already recognised, is that the device is happy operating at line level. Some of the cheaper multi-fx boxes are only designed to work at instrument level (in front of the amp), and hence a line level signal is too hot for them, and they clip. There's also potential problems with impedance matching.

Regarding you G2, suck it and see. If it can handle the line level signals in your loop, and if you can turn off the pre-amp/overdrive gubbins then I suspect it will work well. Indeed, I've always thought very highly of Zoom's time based effects. :)

Big smiles,

Andy.

Dann'sTheMan

01-03-2006, 08:11 AM

Originally posted by blacksunshine
Thanks for the help. I will be sure to talk to the guys where I bought the amp. They are a certified mesa dealer so they should be able to answer my questions. You suggested putting the chorus thru the fx loop...what about the phase?

Hi blacksunshine,

I responded to your PM. :)

Regarding trying phase in the loop, absolutely. Phase, along with all time-based effects e.g. chorus, flange, pitch, vibrato, tremelo, delay, reverb etc. are all worth trying in the loop.

The idea is that by placing them in the loop, and hence after the pre-amp, they add the effect to an already distorted/overdriven tone e.g. adding reverb to a distorted tone, rather than adding reverb to a clean guitar signal and then distorting the results when it goes into your amp.

In the studio, time based effects are usually added even later in the signal chain i.e. after the loop, after the power amp, after the speakers and microphone, indeed when the tracks are being mixed down. This is perhaps the ideal placement for several reasons, and some guitarists go as far as trying to recreate this in their live rigs: Mike Landau is just one example of a guitarist who mikes up his speakers, and then sends the signal through a small mixer, adding in the time based FX there. :eek:

For us mortal guitarists, we often make do with adding time-based effects in the FX loop in our live rigs. This is not a hard and fast rule - try it in front of the amp too, and if it sounds better, then it IS better. :D

Big smiles,

Andy.

hal9000

01-03-2006, 08:12 AM

Originally posted by Gazz
I was wondering what people are using in the loop for effects and power attenuation?

Anybody tried any multple ffects pedals? I know they are supposed to be used in the front end, but if you only use them for time based effects then what are peoples's experiences.

I have aone of the new zoom G2 pedals and wondered if anyone has tried that yet?

Cheers I used a PODxt Live in the loop of my F-100 with good success before I ended up with my current rig which is based on a G-Major. The nice thing about the XTL is that it has an input pad so you can knock down to the loop signal. Also, the output is capable of driving the FX return quite well. A while back in the lounge I pondered a complete channel switching and FX setup based on the PODxt Live and an Axess Electronics CFX4 MIDI switcher. The beauty of that rig is that you’ve got your FX and controller in one package, and your backup is already on stage. The ugly part is you have to run two decently long cables from the FX send/return of the amp out to the XTL, plus MIDI and power. :) As for the G2 (I like the new industrial design aesthetics BTW) it doesn’t appear to have MIDI, so you’d still have to change channels with the footswitch, but if that doesn’t bother you, then you’re good to go. Were you planning to use the G2 in the loop exclusively?

As far as attenuation, I use a Hot Plate at home, but I’ve found that at the volumes I play with my band that the G-Major’s loop attenuation is sufficient for great tone. At home, I use both the G-Major and the Hot Plate for awesome low volume performance.

Gazz

01-03-2006, 08:15 AM

Hi Andy, thanks for the reply

I have tried it today with mixed results. There doesnt seem to be a mismatch on line levels, the G2 can be attentuated at 3 points on any patch.

I am only using it for reverb and delay, I dont want to mess up my original boogie sound, as it is so good.

An interesting option seems to be in the control section on the G2 that you can set an overall volume setting for the whole pedal , could be useful.

The reverbs are ok, I am going to try the option of switching the unit over to, as if you were feeding into a desk option I think its called cab mic option. I think this might make the verbs a bit clearer.

Anyway for the money its a good little pedal, I have looked at the g major and cant see how I can balance it on my amp unless I get another flight case ( more gear to carry around !)

I try to keep things as simple as poss on mt pedalboard, makes it easy to fix/adjust mid gig. I just have a crybaby, a TS808 and a graphic eq , oh and a tuner ( I know there one on the G2 but the Boss one I use is so accurate.

BTW how would I find out abou the impedience of the G2 to see it its ok for the Boogie, any ideas.

Cheers

Dann'sTheMan

01-03-2006, 08:23 AM

Originally posted by Daneswede1
Go buy a Marshall and stop crying:thu: :D :cool: :idea: :

I was thinking about trading my MINT 1981 Marshall JCM800 2203 100 watt head for an F SEries Mesa? YOur thoughts on that one :>)?

Hi Daneswede1,

I agree with Gazz that the Mesa and Marshall cover very different ground. Tell us more - did you recently have a positive experience with an F-series?

IIRC, you've been playing Bogner amps and hence you may feel that you have the Marshall area well covered? If this is the case, then replacing you JCM with something voiced differently is not such a big deal.

One of the F-series brotherhood, danbranson, currently owns both a JCM800 and an F-50, so you might be interested in his thoughts.

I'd also suggest trying to get in touch with the very talented blackstratblues. He plays a JCM800, and I know he was at one time seriously considering an F-series.

Me? I wish I got on more with Marshalls, because they are relatively cheap here in the UK. Instead, I love the F-series voicing, and I had to pay around $2000 for my F-50, and thus finally get the sound I had in my head. I haven't looked back, and I'm still raving about my Boogie years later. Your dilemma would be an easy decision for me. :p

Big smiles,

Andy.

Gazz

01-03-2006, 08:26 AM

Hi Hal thanks for the reply

No I'm intending using the G2 just inthe loop. I dont want to affect the F50 pre amp other than form my crybaby or TS808 or graphic eq.

I get uneasy about mutli effects pedals before the pre amp I think they squish the sound too much and make it sound too processed.

On the G2 you can switch everything off except the verb so I am mainly concerned with the impedence and line levels matching up ok,

On the subject of cabling, I get your point. But I am ok with switching the F50 pedal independantly to the effects, in fact I rather like having the independence, in a song I might want to add a delay for a second or two, as the mood takes me and then switch back but keeping the same front end sound.

BTW I tried the pedal in the loop trick and found it sucked too much tone, it was only a cheap pedal though, can anyone recommend a decent voluem pedal that doesnt affect the tone?

Regards
Regards

hal9000

01-03-2006, 08:35 AM

Originally posted by Dann'sTheMan
<snip>

For us mortal guitarists, we often make do with adding time-based effects in the FX loop in our live rigs. This is not a hard and fast rule - try it in front of the amp too, and if it sounds better, then it IS better. :D

Big smiles,

Andy. Come on Andy, we can be immortal if we want :D

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y34/afraiddave/hal9000WetDryRigRevB.png

Surfcaster

01-03-2006, 08:52 AM

Originally posted by Daneswede1
Go buy a Marshall and stop crying:thu: :D :cool: :idea: :

I was thinking about trading my MINT 1981 Marshall JCM800 2203 100 watt head for an F SEries Mesa? YOur thoughts on that one :>)?

I've been dreaming of a JCM800 2203 for a long time...and probably will continue to do so for a long time! And I've got an F-50. I'd say if you can afford it, keep 'em both!! If not, it's a hard decision. One thing to keep in mind is that JCM800 is probably got some serious collector value, especially if it's in mint condition...and my guess is it will only go up in value. If it was me, I'm almost certain I'd regret down the road if I let it go.

I love my F-50, but sometimes I think I'd be just as happy (or happier) with a JCM800. The only thing I think I'd miss is the channel switching ability of the F50, but the JCM800s I've played clean up really nicely when you back off the guitar volume...better than my F50 does...but then the F50 has more gain, too. So there are pros and cons both ways. Good luck with your decision! But if it was me and I really wanted the Mesa, I think I'd keep the Marshall and wait until I had the cash to buy the Mesa. :thu:

Dann'sTheMan

01-03-2006, 09:16 AM

Originally posted by Gazz
Hi Andy, thanks for the reply

I have tried it today with mixed results. There doesnt seem to be a mismatch on line levels, the G2 can be attentuated at 3 points on any patch.

I am only using it for reverb and delay, I dont want to mess up my original boogie sound, as it is so good.

An interesting option seems to be in the control section on the G2 that you can set an overall volume setting for the whole pedal , could be useful.

The reverbs are ok, I am going to try the option of switching the unit over to, as if you were feeding into a desk option I think its called cab mic option. I think this might make the verbs a bit clearer.

Anyway for the money its a good little pedal, I have looked at the g major and cant see how I can balance it on my amp unless I get another flight case ( more gear to carry around !)

I try to keep things as simple as poss on mt pedalboard, makes it easy to fix/adjust mid gig. I just have a crybaby, a TS808 and a graphic eq , oh and a tuner ( I know there one on the G2 but the Boss one I use is so accurate.

BTW how would I find out abou the impedience of the G2 to see it its ok for the Boogie, any ideas.

Cheers

Hi Gaz,

I found the G2 manual here (http://www.samsontech.com/products/relatedDocs/G2.pdf) , and page 4 seems to suggest that the G2 is really designed with a guitar input in mind, rather than the line level signal in your loop.

FYI, instrument level impedance is typically around 50,000 Ohms, whereas line level impedance is around 600 Ohms. Line level signals are also typically hotter than instrument level signals. If you'd like to read more about this subject, then I found this for you: http://www.answers.com/topic/nominal-impedance

In order to correctly match your G2 in your F-series loop, you'd likely have to consider a dummy load in line with the G2's input. The Output should be able to supply a Line level signal, but if it doesn't then an additional pre-amplifier might be necessary in line with the F-series FX return. :eek:

Regarding a particular volume pedal for the "pedal-in-the-loop trick", some of the brotherhood reported successful results with the Ernie Ball pedal. I've never used an "actual" volume pedal for the "pedal-in-the-loop trick", but I use the term as it's readily understood and helps communication of the idea. :)

Big smiles,

Andy.

Gazz

01-03-2006, 09:16 AM

Hal, nice graphics but, does this mean you only have effects through your extension cab and the F100 is dry? I know Brian may uses his vox ac 30's ( 3 of them ) this way but surely you would want to have stereo and patch your Gforce through both speaker cabs (one on the combo and one outside) to get the full spread!

Only a thought

Dann'sTheMan

01-03-2006, 09:28 AM

Originally posted by hal9000
Come on Andy, we can be immortal if we want :D

<snip\>

:D I was of course contrasting the immortal guitarists like Mike Landau who actually get their wet signal source post-speaker from a miked cab - but you knew that. :p

I've thought about playing around with a wet/dry set up (using an attenuator as you beautifully drew), but I don't know if I can be bothered with carrying around an additional cab (or two for stereo wet/dry/wet).

Another route that I've considered is to try the Groove Tubes Speaker Emulator II. This serves as a simple attenuator, and allows the FX unit to be placed post power-amp. It reportedly has an excellent cab simulator, so I could potentially use this to mix in a closed back sound with my rig. :idea:

Regarding the rig that you drew Neil, have you ever considered making your Avatar 2x12 stereo switchable? This way, you could run both Left and Right G-Major signals into your Carvin stereo power amp, and get some stereo imaging from your Avatar. Seems like a potentially sweet wet/dry/wet set up to me. :)

Big smiles,

Andy.

hal9000

01-03-2006, 09:28 AM

Originally posted by Gazz
Hal, nice graphics but, does this mean you only have effects through your extension cab and the F100 is dry? I know Brian may uses his vox ac 30's ( 3 of them ) this way but surely you would want to have stereo and patch your Gforce through both speaker cabs (one on the combo and one outside) to get the full spread!

Only a thought LOL! That was more of a joke than my real setup. I actually have run full stereo using the G-Major into the F-100 and Rivera R55-12 which was insane. But, I can't be bothered to bring that much stuff to a gig or practice. So, the G-Major is in my F-100’s loop and runs mono. When my bass player gets his new amp and stops using my DCM 150, I'll throw that bad boy into my rack and see what a stereo setup sounds like with the right side being powered by the DCM 150 into my Avatar cab. It's nice to have a decent spread between the speakers, but as it stands they would probably be on top of each other, where the stereo FX are subtle.

Of course, I have run the XTL as my stereo FX source post power amp into both cabs where the DCM 150 powers everything. That’s about the best sounding low volume rig I’ve come up with since the Hot Plate would be used as a load. However, for decent volume practice and gigs, I can’t part with the feel that the F-100’s power section imparts on my playing.

hal9000

01-03-2006, 09:39 AM

Originally posted by Dann'sTheMan
<snip>
Regarding the rig that you drew Neil, have you ever considered making your Avatar 2x12 stereo switchable? This way, you could run both Left and Right G-Major signals into your Carvin stereo power amp, and get some stereo imaging from your Avatar. Seems like a potentially sweet wet/dry/wet set up to me. :)

Big smiles,

Andy. I have thought about that, but the cab has (2) 16 Ohm speakers in parallel for 8 Ohms total. So, since the DCM 150 operates at 8 Ohms stereo 50 W/side, I'm thinking I'd probably only get around 30 W per side @ 16 Ohms. Regardless, that would be a fun experiment. I’d probably use a dual jack plate with a DPDT switch to get the job done.

Gazz

01-03-2006, 11:56 AM

Andy

thanks for the info, I had a look at the link and I 'm afraid its a bit double dutch to me!

So looking at the G2 handbook it says

Input -20 dBm rated input level
1 megohm Input impedance

Output Line plus 5 dBm(output load impedance 10 kilohms or more)

What does all that mean !@??

Any ideas?

Cheers

hal9000

01-03-2006, 12:20 PM

Originally posted by Gazz
Andy

thanks for the info, I had a look at the link and I 'm afraid its a bit double dutch to me!

So looking at the G2 handbook it says

Input -20 dBm rated input level
1 megohm Input impedance

Output Line plus 5 dBm(output load impedance 10 kilohms or more)

What does all that mean !@??

Any ideas?

Cheers The input spec means that it was made to operate after a guitar. However, the output spec is typical of line level devices (+4 dBu) as you would expect such that the G2 can drive the line level of a mixer sufficiently. So, if you feel that the tone sort of gets muffled and less dynamic, you’re hearing the result of an impedance and voltage mismatch. Ultimately, you'll have to decide for yourself if this kind of setup sounds right because you're not going to damage anything by running the G2 in the loop.

Dann'sTheMan

01-03-2006, 02:28 PM

Originally posted by Gazz
Andy

thanks for the info, I had a look at the link and I 'm afraid its a bit double dutch to me!

So looking at the G2 handbook it says

Input -20 dBm rated input level
1 megohm Input impedance

Output Line plus 5 dBm(output load impedance 10 kilohms or more)

What does all that mean !@??

Any ideas?

Cheers

Hi Gaz,

Apologies for the double Dutch - I wasn't trying to confuse you, I just wanted you (and others interested) to have the information to hand.

The key thing is that Line level inputs have low numbers for their input impedances - of the order of a few hundred Ohms. Instrument level inputs have much higher impedances - of the order of several tens of thousand Ohms for Tube amps, and even higher for solid state and electronic devices (your G2 is 1 million Ohms).

I agree with hal9000 that you should try it and see if your sound seems to be being compromised - you won't damage anything. :cool:

Decoding the double Dutch is not always straight forward, so no need to feel bad - hal9000 and I have the benefit of our Elec Eng degrees to help us with the techno babble. :p

Big smiles,

Andy.