Mesa F-series Lounge. Come on in and share your secrets. [Archive] - Page 2 - Harmony Central Musician Community Forums

markmann

06-03-2005, 06:18 AM

Originally posted by UconnJack
Mesa F-XX Brothers. After much consideration, I think I'm bowing out of the club for a while. I've got a couple of big outdoor gigs booked this summer and am thinking about going with a 100W head. I'm considering the Stiletto, Dual Rectifier or a Genx Benz ElDiablo.

I cranked the F-50 this weekend, it really sings, I'm gonna miss it.
(Feel free to talk me out of it cause I'm still on the fence!)

Peace!
It sounds to me like you still dig the sound of the F-50. If it's only volume or projection that you're concerned about have you considered adding a cabinet? I use two 1 x 12 cab's and when I aim them in differnt directions or seperate them the percieved volume increase is dramatic. With two you can also have one aimed at you and the other in whatever direction you want.

UconnJack

06-03-2005, 06:30 AM

Thanks for all the input guys. It's not so much a volume issue, it's more a feel and fullness to my sound that I'm looking for. I'm running a 2x12 Avatar with the F-50 lately.

I'm leaning towards keeping the F-50 and just picking up a Head to compare and see if I'm missing anything.

hal9000

06-03-2005, 06:50 AM

markmann

06-03-2005, 07:14 AM

Originally posted by UconnJack
Thanks for all the input guys. It's not so much a volume issue, it's more a feel and fullness to my sound that I'm looking for. I'm running a 2x12 Avatar with the F-50 lately.

I'm leaning towards keeping the F-50 and just picking up a Head to compare and see if I'm missing anything. That's a great idea. I've done lots of side-by-side comparisons between the F-50 and other amps both before and after I bought it. It's amazing how the F-50 can trump the tones of other amps once you start tweaking. I still have two other amps besides the F-50 but they aren't getting much use now and one will be up for sale soon. I will always keep a second for tonal variation and as a backup.

I know tone is totally subjective but I compared the F-50 to a dual rec and besides a certain scooped high-gain tone that the dual rec was exceptionally good at I thought the F-50 surpassed it in every other aspect.

"sasquatch"

06-03-2005, 07:33 AM

Originally posted by markmann
That's a great idea. I've done lots of side-by-side comparisons between the F-50 and other amps both before and after I bought it. It's amazing how the F-50 can trump the tones of other amps once you start tweaking. I still have two other amps besides the F-50 but they aren't getting much use now and one will be up for sale soon. I will always keep a second for tonal variation and as a backup.

I know tone is totally subjective but I compared the F-50 to a dual rec and besides a certain scooped high-gain tone that the dual rec was exceptionally good at I thought the F-50 surpassed it in every other aspect.

It sounds incredible in a band mix as well. It just has so much body that just brings it out front in the mix and when you crank it there is such a warm, sweet sustain. Glad you like yours because i love mine. The first time i brought it to band practice it was great. The other guitarist had a 100w (soilid sate) head and 4x12 cab and when i opened my boogie up both the guitarist and bass player couldn't stop cursing. :D that is a good feeling.

No Soul

06-04-2005, 06:11 AM

Originally posted by markmann
I know tone is totally subjective but I compared the F-50 to a dual rec and besides a certain scooped high-gain tone that the dual rec was exceptionally good at I thought the F-50 surpassed it in every other aspect.

as a recto owner I couldnt agree more.

Dann'sTheMan

06-05-2005, 05:42 PM

Hello Brothers,

I've not had a chance to post recently, but I have followed this thread with interest. UconnJack, sorry to hear about your dilemma. I hope the right cab will give you the feel and sound you're looking for - I was most impressed when I ran a F-50 combo through a Mesa 4x12 (Traditional).

FWIW, I've also run my F-50 combo standalone at an open air gig, and I had no volume issues including the clean channel (although the clean tones did get thicker as the power tubes started to cook). I wore a smile for weeks after as I loved the way the amp got more and more touch responsive as the wick was wound up - it was a thing of beauty to let off the leash. :p

Very best wishes in making your decision, :)

Big smiles,

Andy.

phyrexia

06-08-2005, 08:14 PM

Has anybody gone from the head and a cab to the combo? I'm thinking about selling my stuff to buy a custom covered F50 combo at the local music store.

I walked in there originally to try out the 3/4 back 2x12 cabinet but they didn't have one.

The 2x12 recto cab I have is boomy, I have to turn the bass down for it to sound good. I played the combo today and didn't have the same problem, sounded better with more bass.

Thoughts?

No Soul

06-09-2005, 03:52 AM

Originally posted by phyrexia
Has anybody gone from the head and a cab to the combo? I'm thinking about selling my stuff to buy a custom covered F50 combo at the local music store.

I walked in there originally to try out the 3/4 back 2x12 cabinet but they didn't have one.

The 2x12 recto cab I have is boomy, I have to turn the bass down for it to sound good. I played the combo today and didn't have the same problem, sounded better with more bass.

Thoughts?

Well its a different speaker to begin with.

GTM

06-09-2005, 05:40 AM

Originally posted by Dann'sTheMan

Excellent post! I'm still running the stock tubes after two years, so I definitely need to retube my amp sooner rather than later. LithiumZero, you have me itching to try out the exact combination that is working so well for you! I may well have to investigate and find out if I can source all of these tubes here in Europe - can anyone recommend where? :D
I'd love to hear more about everyone's experiences and recommendations with different tubes in the F-series. :)
Big smiles,
Andy.

I just bought my F-50 wide body combo Tuesday night. I did some tweaking last night and have established some base settings on both channels. I have a big collection of tubes from the Nomad 45 which I still have. I put a Groove tube 12AX7-M (Mullard) in V2 and immediately heard a big difference, warmer, tighter tone. I tried swapping the other tubes with some EH 12ax7's but ended up putting the original Sovtech's back in. Until my ear gets use to this amp I'm going to hold of on the tubes.
I will say that for a $20 investment, one tube, the GT12ax7-M, will give very positive results. I got mine from from Doug's Tubes. He lives about 30 minutes from me.

Dann'sTheMan

06-09-2005, 11:04 AM

Originally posted by GTM

I just bought my F-50 wide body combo Tuesday night. I did some tweaking last night and have established some base settings on both channels. I have a big collection of tubes from the Nomad 45 which I still have. I put a Groove tube 12AX7-M (Mullard) in V2 and immediately heard a big difference, warmer, tighter tone. I tried swapping the other tubes with some EH 12ax7's but ended up putting the original Sovtech's back in. Until my ear gets use to this amp I'm going to hold of on the tubes.
I will say that for a $20 investment, one tube, the GT12ax7-M, will give very positive results. I got mine from from Doug's Tubes. He lives about 30 minutes from me.

Thanks GTM! :)

phyrexia

06-09-2005, 12:46 PM

Originally posted by No Soul

Well its a different speaker to begin with.

The store I buy from orders everything with V30s, so the combo has the same speaker.

bendedavis

06-09-2005, 11:26 PM

I've been lookin' at all types of reviews, and considering options for my new amp. I think I may get an F series. All my rig consists of now is my Ibanez RG, Avatar 412 (2 T75s, 2 carvin gs12s). I want something that can do nice cleans like Radiohead all the way up to brutal distortion like Pantera and Metallica. I do alot of recording, and don't gig. The F30 seems to be a good amp if it can deliver the distortion I want. I don't really need anything to be loud, so I would go with the F-30 if it weren't for the EL84s. I haven't tried out these amps yet, so I'm unsure of how they sound (gonna go later this week to Guitar Center). It's probably between the F30 and F50. Thinkin' about getting a custom job, rhino vinyl with a wicker cane grille.

Thoughts, suggestions please :)

No Soul

06-09-2005, 11:32 PM

Originally posted by bendedavis
I've been lookin' at all types of reviews, and considering options for my new amp. I think I may get an F series. All my rig consists of now is my Ibanez RG, Avatar 412 (2 T75s, 2 carvin gs12s). I want something that can do nice cleans like Radiohead all the way up to brutal distortion like Pantera and Metallica. I do alot of recording, and don't gig. The F30 seems to be a good amp if it can deliver the distortion I want. I don't really need anything to be loud, so I would go with the F-30 if it weren't for the EL84s. I haven't tried out these amps yet, so I'm unsure of how they sound (gonna go later this week to Guitar Center). It's probably between the F30 and F50. Thinkin' about getting a custom job, rhino vinyl with a wicker cane grille.

Thoughts, suggestions please :)

save your money on a custom order and get the F50 instead of the 30.

Locky

06-09-2005, 11:40 PM

I've been experimenting with how my GT3 can interact with my F50 tone. I keep my cleans on a slightly scoop low gain setting, and the distortion on fairly neutral 1:30 Gain, 10:30 treble, and 12 for mid and bass. I use the gain settings and the preamp GT3 and a very very low settings along with the EQ. Now I can literally get any tone I wish at my feet. Marshall, Soldano or just good old classic Mesa, this setup can do anything I want. I don't really have any nice recording equipment to do a demo justice, but I'll post something in about a week, to show the versatility of the setup. I know many purist may be thinking "oh but that would sound digital and thin". Nope, i keep the GT3 settings on very subtle, so that they only colour the tone.

GTM

06-10-2005, 06:22 AM

Originally posted by bendedavis
I've been lookin' at all types of reviews, and considering options for my new amp. I think I may get an F series. All my rig consists of now is my Ibanez RG, Avatar 412 (2 T75s, 2 carvin gs12s). I want something that can do nice cleans like Radiohead all the way up to brutal distortion like Pantera and Metallica. I do alot of recording, and don't gig. The F30 seems to be a good amp if it can deliver the distortion I want. I don't really need anything to be loud, so I would go with the F-30 if it weren't for the EL84s. I haven't tried out these amps yet, so I'm unsure of how they sound (gonna go later this week to Guitar Center). It's probably between the F30 and F50. Thinkin' about getting a custom job, rhino vinyl with a wicker cane grille.

Thoughts, suggestions please :)

I strongly suggest you try both side by side. I recently bought an F-50. The GC I went to had the F-30 & F-50 side by side. If it weren't that I already had a Nomad 45 and wanted something different than the El84's I might have gone for it. It's a great sounding amp at lower volumes and if recording is your application it might be just what your looking for. Check it out.

bendedavis

06-12-2005, 10:29 AM

So I went to Guitar Center yesterday. I ended up trying out the F30 combo, cuz they didn't have the head. OMG, it's great. Plus the new ones have V30s in em instead of C90s. It's only 50 dollars more than the head, so it's a great deal. I was gonna get it, but of course there had to be some issues with Guitar Center. I don't like explaining everything again, so here's a conversation I had with somebody yesterday http://www.exitmusic.us/mesa.htm. So, does anybody know about financing a brand new mesa? because there's no way I'm paying a new price for a USED amp.

Dann'sTheMan

06-12-2005, 04:56 PM

Originally posted by bendedavis
So I went to Guitar Center yesterday. I ended up trying out the F30 combo, cuz they didn't have the head. OMG, it's great. Plus the new ones have V30s in em instead of C90s. It's only 50 dollars more than the head, so it's a great deal. I was gonna get it, but of course there had to be some issues with Guitar Center. I don't like explaining everything again, so here's a conversation I had with somebody yesterday http://www.exitmusic.us/mesa.htm. So, does anybody know about financing a brand new mesa? because there's no way I'm paying a new price for a USED amp.

Hi bendedavis,

I'm glad you had such a positive experience with the F-series. The F-30 is certainly a great sounding amp, although it does sound subtley different to its bigger brothers, the F-50 and F-100. You may be interested to know that the F-30 and the F-100 combos usually come with the Vintage 30 speakers (as far as I'm aware this is not a new thing), whilst the F-50 is the only one in the line that usually comes with the Black Shadow C-90. :)

Big smiles,

Andy.

bendedavis

06-12-2005, 08:31 PM

How bout the financing? I want a brand new one, not the old looking one with old tubes, that's in the store. They said to get a new one in that'd be a special order.. and I couldn't finance that.

GTM

06-13-2005, 06:20 AM

Originally posted by bendedavis
How bout the financing? I want a brand new one, not the old looking one with old tubes, that's in the store. They said to get a new one in that'd be a special order.. and I couldn't finance that.

Not sure about what your talking about in your other forum. Is the F-30 used or just a dusty showroom model? If it's used as in previously owned then $900 is certainly to much. I recently bought my F-50 from GC. It was the floor model. Yes I would have preferred new out of the box. However, I really cranked the amp in the store and couldn't detect any problems. I asked for new power tubes (2) 6L6 and the store complied without any problems. Had there been any cosmetic issues I would have tried to get a few bucks off. GC has always been good like that with gear I've purchased in the past. I bought the extended warranty for and additional $99. This added 30 more days to the full cash return. So I have 60 days to return the amp if not satisfied. I bought it on my GC credit card, they gave me 90 days- no money down.
I've never had any problems with the GC where I live (Commack, NY). The always bend the rules for me to make the sale. Once I had the manager of the store run out into the parking lot after I walked out dissatisfied with a sale and talk me back into the store to negotiate. Maybe it's different where you are but at the least, if you buy with the GC credit card they can give you up to 1 year before payments are required. Also, did you ask them to search for the amp in another store. All the GC's are hooked up together. I've had them do searches and get me a guitar shipped from another store. I'm sure there is a new F-30 in another store that wouldn't require a special order.

hal9000

06-13-2005, 06:28 AM

Originally posted by bendedavis
How bout the financing? I want a brand new one, not the old looking one with old tubes, that's in the store. They said to get a new one in that'd be a special order.. and I couldn't finance that. Hey, man. I'm sorry to hear about your predicament. When I bought my F-100 2x12 combo, I got it from Guitar Center new in the box; i.e. never opened, direct from the factory. If GC aren't willing to treat you the same way, then either appeal to the manager or find another store (I know it's not always easy). As far as financing, all you're really doing is signing up for their credit card at a usually heinous APR (>20%). You would be much better off to apply for a credit card that has a 0% APR for 6+ months and a credit limit in excess of $1000. I obviously don't know about your credit, but most people, including poor college kids, can get a card with the listed amenities. Then, you can get whatever you want and you’re building credit at the same time, which is imperative in our society these days.and have a good amount of time to pay it off.

bendedavis

06-13-2005, 08:32 AM

Originally posted by hal9000
Hey, man. I'm sorry to hear about your predicament. When I bought my F-100 2x12 combo, I got it from Guitar Center new in the box; i.e. never opened, direct from the factory. If GC aren't willing to treat you the same way, then either appeal to the manager or find another store (I know it's not always easy). As far as financing, all you're really doing is signing up for their credit card at a usually heinous APR (>20%). You would be much better off to apply for a credit card that has a 0% APR for 6+ months and a credit limit in excess of $1000. I obviously don't know about your credit, but most people, including poor college kids, can get a card with the listed amenities. Then, you can get whatever you want and you’re building credit at the same time, which is imperative in our society these days.and have a good amount of time to pay it off.

I already have established credit, and they normally offer 12 or 15 months with no payments. BTW, I filed a complaint with the BBB, so I should hear back from them in less than a week.

GTM

06-13-2005, 08:37 AM

You should call Mesa direct and explain your situation. I'm sure they will help you out.

markmann

06-13-2005, 07:12 PM

Originally posted by bendedavis
How bout the financing? I want a brand new one, not the old looking one with old tubes, that's in the store. They said to get a new one in that'd be a special order.. and I couldn't finance that.

I ran into the same problem when I was shopping for an F-50... I called every music store in town that carried Mesa and no one had a new F-50 in the box, all they had was what was on the floor. Talking to the sales-people and store owners the story I kept hearing was that it was hard to get orders from Mesa. Since new Mesa amp's are expensive they only ordered so many and put them on the floor and If you wanted something that the store did not have then you wait for weeks.

My advise: Play the snot out of a floor model and if it sounds good buy it.

musicdog400

06-14-2005, 10:39 AM

The first time I bought an F-50 it was from guitar center. I brought it home, played it a fairly low volumes and it started crackling. Also I was not educated on how to dial the amp in (the tone controls have not effect at high gain settings). So I got nervous and returned it.

But a year later I bought one used (off of this forum) and I _love_ the amp. I have had it around 6 months. It is definitely my favorite amp.

Here is a clip: F-50 Clip (http://www.oz.net/~markw/koin.mp3)

and the wierd guitar I made it with:
Headless fanned fret guitar (http://www.oz.net/~markw/guitar2.html)

Tommi Inkila

06-14-2005, 12:39 PM

Here is a clip: F-50 Clip (http://www.oz.net/~markw/koin.mp3)

and the wierd guitar I made it with:
Headless fanned fret guitar (http://www.oz.net/~markw/guitar2.html) [/B]
Cool clip!

I can't wait to do some myself... I've been so busy with four different projects and day-job. Luckily few of those will end soon. Next week I'll start to record the guitars for our album... it will be one sweaty week. :cool:

kenwhis

06-14-2005, 03:29 PM

Our local Mesa dealer prefers to sell ones new in the box, it saves them the hassle of rounding up the footswitch, paperwork and cover that comes with the F series. If you have to buy one off of the floor, make sure you get all of that stuff. I have not had time to search this whole thread yet, but anyone else here who prefers the F30 to the 50? The EL 84's seem to respond nicer to my guitar and touch, it just sounded sweeter to me and the rep.

Dann'sTheMan

06-15-2005, 01:38 AM

Originally posted by musicdog400
The first time I bought an F-50 it was from guitar center. I brought it home, played it a fairly low volumes and it started crackling. Also I was not educated on how to dial the amp in (the tone controls have not effect at high gain settings). So I got nervous and returned it.

But a year later I bought one used (off of this forum) and I _love_ the amp. I have had it around 6 months. It is definitely my favorite amp.

Here is a clip: F-50 Clip (http://www.oz.net/~markw/koin.mp3)

and the wierd guitar I made it with:
Headless fanned fret guitar (http://www.oz.net/~markw/guitar2.html)

Hi musicdog400,

What fantastic tone that you captured in your clip. You simply MUST start a new thread with this so that we can ask you all the details of the audio chain (I REALLY want to know). :cool:

FWIW brothers, I've got a new clip going in this thread (http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=950872). There's an old Dynacomp in the fray alongside my F-50 - if, you've not checked it out yet, then let me know what you think. :)

Big smiles,

Andy.

markmann

06-15-2005, 07:17 AM

Originally posted by musicdog400
The first time I bought an F-50 it was from guitar center. I brought it home, played it a fairly low volumes and it started crackling. Also I was not educated on how to dial the amp in (the tone controls have not effect at high gain settings). So I got nervous and returned it.

But a year later I bought one used (off of this forum) and I _love_ the amp. I have had it around 6 months. It is definitely my favorite amp.

Here is a clip: F-50 Clip (http://www.oz.net/~markw/koin.mp3)

and the wierd guitar I made it with:
Headless fanned fret guitar (http://www.oz.net/~markw/guitar2.html)

Musicdog, fantastic clip! I'm with Andy and his suggestion to start a thread about your clip as I will be asking a few questions myself... of course if you don't mind revealing some of your techniques. Lots of movement in that clip and it works well with your effects... great job.

Your fanned guitar is very interesting as well. I'm a big fan of unique guitars and I have "Dr. Franensteined" a few myself but not to the extent that you have with yours. Excellent concept combining three different models. I hope it works for you because you never know exactly what the playability and tone will be until that exciting moment when you plug in the cord and fire it up.

Mark

markmann

06-15-2005, 07:28 AM

Originally posted by kenwhis
If you have to buy one off of the floor, make sure you get all of that stuff. I have not had time to search this whole thread yet, but anyone else here who prefers the F30 to the 50? The EL 84's seem to respond nicer to my guitar and touch, it just sounded sweeter to me and the rep.

Don't worry about getting all the stuff with the Mesa, when I bought mine I got nothing but the footswitch. I called Mesa and told them I bought a floor model and they sent me a thick package of all sorts of stuff including the manual, registration info, etc, etc... way more than I expected. Mesa was very cool about that.

Also, I've been a fan of EL84's and I did a side-by-side comparison of the f-30 and f-50 and although I really liked the feel of the f-30 I thought it was too dark and lacked clean headroom. I really was hoping to like the f-30 better because I don't need the overall volume of the f-50 and the f-30 is smaller and lighter but the f-50 just spoke to me.

kenwhis

06-15-2005, 08:11 AM

Hey I totally understand, but I have been playing a Les Paul Classic with the stock ceramics, and the F30 seemed to tame those a bit more. Maybe if I had single coils or PAF's, that might shade me towards the 6l6's.

markmann

06-15-2005, 09:00 AM

Originally posted by kenwhis
Hey I totally understand, but I have been playing a Les Paul Classic with the stock ceramics, and the F30 seemed to tame those a bit more. Maybe if I had single coils or PAF's, that might shade me towards the 6l6's. Yes, that's a good point and it just so happens that I favor brighter tones. FYI, I wasn't dissing the f-30 or attempting to re-direct anyone from the f-30 to the f-50, I just want to make sure that anyone interested in these amp's know that they have different characteristics, not just different wattages. To me they seem more like cousins than brothers. I really like the little f-30 head which is smaller than the f-50 and is what first attracted me to the f-series.

jrc6

06-15-2005, 10:45 AM

hey Markmann,

Man, that was a cool song & tone! Very santana-ish! I love it! Good job. I agree, post your settings. I like to see your settings.

jrc6

"sasquatch"

06-15-2005, 09:39 PM

here's my first clip with the f50, so please escue the sloppiness. this is FULL BAND clip. here is the setup. oh yeah, getting the drums decent was a pain. we only have 1 input on the audio card into cpu, so we had to eq it all before the signal went into the computer. the drums are 1 track! of course, we then doubled it and put reverb, blah blah blah....etc... anyway, this is from our DEMO which we are handing out now. anyway, i had my F50 cranked like hell for this song. also, any bad playing should be refered to my sig. :)

vocals->behringer studio condenser ->$100 tube pre -> computer

drums -> shure pg4 set -> mixer -> computer

bass -> $100 tube pre -> cpu

rhythm guitar -> strat w/ twangbanger pickup on bridge setting (i have recently switched to a diMarzio Virtual2 set, which i love) -> PODxt Live Plexi Setting

Lead Guitar -> peavey Generation Exp ($185) with Seymour Duncan '59 in Bridge position -> Audio Technica mb2k on center (explains the bad clean tone) -> CPU. i can't remember setting for the clean tones, but the OD was ch2 NON-contour, gain 12:00, master 12:00 (yes....12:00), bass 12:00, mids 3:00, highs 10:30, ears deaf. oh yeah, you will have to go to the website to download it.

www.jacksdown.com/music.htm and download "shutup." i am the dude in the top right corner, and on the homepage i am wearing the zeppelin shirt.

ROCK ON!

"sasquatch"

06-15-2005, 09:41 PM

oh yeah, i think the solo was the insane model and my strat bridge pup w/duncan twangbanger.

Dann'sTheMan

06-16-2005, 04:03 AM

Hi doggage5050,

Cool website and cool clip. I really liked the composition - sweet changes in mood and dynamics and the singer has got a great voice (reminded me a little of Jeni Vernadeau). Great playing too from the whole band - I would certainly come out and see you guys gig. :)

You should also start a new thread with this so we can ask you lots of details about the various guitar tracks. :cool:

Big smiles,

Andy.

markmann

06-16-2005, 05:34 AM

Originally posted by jrc6
hey Markmann,

Man, that was a cool song & tone! Very santana-ish! I love it! Good job. I agree, post your settings. I like to see your settings.

jrc6 jrc6, I would love to take credit for that clip but it was musicdog400.

Mark

"sasquatch"

06-16-2005, 07:31 AM

Originally posted by Dann'sTheMan
Hi doggage5050,

Cool website and cool clip. I really liked the composition - sweet changes in mood and dynamics and the singer has got a great voice (reminded me a little of Jeni Vernadeau). Great playing too from the whole band - I would certainly come out and see you guys gig. :)

You should also start a new thread with this so we can ask you lots of details about the various guitar tracks. :cool:

Big smiles,

Andy.

Andy,
thanks for being so nice. The playing is so sloppy and crudded up. It was freezing in the shop.. This was our first time recording. I don't know what it is, but I felt like i was under a microscope; i have since gotten over it. As far as the guitar tracks, there isn't much to it other than what is listed above. Like i said, it is just a demo recorded in my buddy's car shop, but i am proud that it came out decently.

....my F50 had to be shipped out to California to the Boogie Plant for repairs. Been 2 months since I have played on it.

"sasquatch"

06-16-2005, 07:34 AM

oh yeah,
thanks about the website. i did it all my self.....:cool:

bendedavis

06-16-2005, 09:51 PM

I'm pickin' up a Mesa F30 combo tomorrow as long as I can get financing. :-D

-=MYK=-

06-16-2005, 10:02 PM

Huy guys, I'm back to bug one of you again about these amps:p

Can anyone tell me the differences between the el84 powered F-30, and the 6l6 powered F-50,F-100?

Thanks in advance,

Michael

markmann

06-17-2005, 05:13 AM

Originally posted by -=MYK=-
Huy guys, I'm back to bug one of you again about these amps:p

Can anyone tell me the differences between the el84 powered F-30, and the 6l6 powered F-50,F-100?

Thanks in advance,

Michael Read the discussion about this subject on page 14 and top of page 15 of this thread, we may have already answered most of your questions.

-=MYK=-

06-17-2005, 01:40 PM

Originally posted by markmann
Read the discussion about this subject on page 14 and top of page 15 of this thread, we may have already answered most of your questions.

Hehe I have my page view on 100, I guess I was looking for something quicker, but I'll read through the whole thread.

jrc6

06-17-2005, 01:53 PM

Sorry musicdog400, Great clip man!

Thanks for pointing out my mistake markman.

jrc

markmann

06-17-2005, 02:04 PM

Originally posted by -=MYK=-

Hehe I have my page view on 100, I guess I was looking for something quicker, but I'll read through the whole thread. I totally understand... this thread is getting long so I thought I'd point you to related info.

I think Andy should publish this in book form. I wonder if Mesa/Boogie is aware of all this attention they're getting? They'd pay big bucks to get this kind of info on their own.

musicdog400

06-17-2005, 02:26 PM

thanks jrc.

krazeexharhar

06-17-2005, 08:42 PM

Hi, i'm considering an f-50 for purchase since i've heard so many good things, but i was wondering, is the amp combo crunchy enough to do like hard rock, punk, or metal? I have to use the amp for a variety of applications such as church but I'm also in a post punk band and I want to kno if the amp can deliver in high gain sounds.

bendedavis

06-17-2005, 08:47 PM

I just went to pick up a Mesa F-30 and I couldn't get credit with Guitar Center. :mad:

CAC

06-17-2005, 10:48 PM

Originally posted by krazeexharhar
Hi, i'm considering an f-50 for purchase since i've heard so many good things, but i was wondering, is the amp combo crunchy enough to do like hard rock, punk, or metal? I have to use the amp for a variety of applications such as church but I'm also in a post punk band and I want to kno if the amp can deliver in high gain sounds.

You'll have no problem with any of those styles except for maybe the totally scooped out NU Metal tones, but if you're talking 80's and thrash stuff you can definitely ge there.

musicdog400

06-18-2005, 12:13 AM

Personally I feel I can even do nu metal with the help of an EQ in the loop. Of course there is the issue of the loop being parallel, and not being able to dial in 100 % effect. But it works close enough for me, and the mod to make the loop serial is pretty easy.

krazeexharhar

06-18-2005, 02:04 AM

What's the idfference between the combo and getting a head with a cab? What do you think would be better suitedf or my purpose?

No Soul

06-18-2005, 06:35 AM

Originally posted by krazeexharhar
What's the idfference between the combo and getting a head with a cab? What do you think would be better suitedf or my purpose?

To answer your earlier question, it does punk rock and metal just fine. I play in a metalcore band and use an F-series, no pedal no nothing, unless you count my EMGs.

Im guessing you are probably going to be playing loud, so you might want to skip the combo version and go for a head and buy yourself a good 4x12 to go with it. As far as the amps themselves go, there is no difference between the combo and head. Its just that if you are going to end up running a half or full stack, it would make little sense to buy the combo version. However, even if you intend to power 4x12s the combo can still be nice to mess arround with at quieter levels for practicing and especialy for recording.

matrixman_397

06-18-2005, 08:47 AM

Hey, i'm looking to try one of these amps in a few days. I mainly play stuff like Foo Fighters, but am curious to see whether this amp can replicate a Metallica or Slayer type tone. If i could get a few settings to try out i'd really appreicate it so i can get a better feel of the amp.

Thanks! :cool:

Tommi Inkila

06-18-2005, 12:43 PM

Tube update:

Hello! I've been messing around with preamp tubes, especially on V1... unfortunately no sound clips this time... here's some descriptions:

Golden Dragon: These tested chinese tubes had quite hifi-sound. It didn't emphasize any specific frequency to my ears. This is also a lo-gain tube. Too low for my purposes, I had hard-time finding sweet overdrive level for "metal" stuff. Also the tube is a little bit on the loose-side. It's no wonder these tubes are known to be used in hifi-systems. Good tube for V3 and people who don't need the extra gain. (It's possible that the individual I tested had low mA's and so on, therefore the gain was low.)

JJ: The one that I had for few months. It is tighter than the original Mesa (Sovtek) tube and has a little bit nicer or smoother upper-end. Fairly dark you might say... Good and cheap tube. Not tested.

Mesa: Quite raw and loose sounding. I don't have much else to add... I had this only for couple of days.

Billington Gold: Tested Svetlana (Russian) tube. Good balance sonically and reasonably tight... JJ might be slightly tighter though. BG has a nice way to put a sticker with mA's and volts on the package. This way it's possible to get same kind of 12AX7's next time you're going to change the tube. The differences in sound varies greatly with small increases and decreases on mA's and volts.

At this moment I'd rank the Billington Gold first and the JJ second. Golden Dragon is for someone who needs a little bit cleaner tube that gives easier tweak-possibilities for mid-gain stuff.

Well, no other thoughts for now... hopefully somebody finds something interesting on this post :)

Tommi Inkila

06-18-2005, 12:44 PM

hal9000

06-18-2005, 01:07 PM

Originally posted by matrixman_397
Hey, i'm looking to try one of these amps in a few days. I mainly play stuff like Foo Fighters, but am curious to see whether this amp can replicate a Metallica or Slayer type tone. If i could get a few settings to try out i'd really appreicate it so i can get a better feel of the amp.

Thanks! :cool: Welcome to the forum matrixman!

Check my sig for audition settings, or read my post on the first page of this thread. If you're going to print them out, use the printable version.

Metallica and Slayer are no problem, especially on the Contour channel. Make sure to obey the master volume settings if you can, and if not they should at least be over 9:00.

matrixman_397

06-18-2005, 03:39 PM

Originally posted by hal9000
Welcome to the forum matrixman!

Check my sig for audition settings, or read my post on the first page of this thread. If you're going to print them out, use the printable version.

Metallica and Slayer are no problem, especially on the Contour channel. Make sure to obey the master volume settings if you can, and if not they should at least be over 9:00.

Thanks for all your help guys. I'v actually been reading this thread for quite a while, only just registered recently.

Been very impressed with the clips i'v heard from people such as Dann'sTheMan and Tommi Inkila to mention just a few! In fact if it wasn't for this thread i would probably never have even thought about getting this amp! So thanks guys!

Will defineatly check those settings out when i try the amp out. My only concern to be honest is that i'd like to be able to get some Marshall type tones out of this thing but haven't heard anything along those lines yet. Just gotta wait and see i guess, the other amp i was thinking about getting was a Marshall DSL401 which i tried briefly but wasn't too impressed with. And thats where i came across the Mesa F50. :)

No Soul

06-18-2005, 04:35 PM

Originally posted by matrixman_397
a Metallica or Slayer type tone. If i could get a few settings to try out i'd really appreicate it so i can get a better feel of the amp.

Thanks! :cool:

Certain Metallica tones which were done with the old MkII are definitely within the realm of the F series. If you are talking "God Hates Us All" Slayer, then the F series can definitely hit those sounds too, but a lot of the older stuff (for both slayer and metallica) was done with boosted JCMs which the F cant mimic, but can definitely hang with as far as how agressive the sound is.

Rev. Busta Phee

06-18-2005, 04:55 PM

The most convincing way to get an old slayer or very old Metallica sound out of the F, even though it would be sickeningly loud, would be to simply crank every single pot on the rhythm (clean) channel, inlcuding the volume, and then throw a boost in front of it.

Incidently, I've found with my f-30 that doing this without a boost will give you a pretty convincing brown sound.

Dann'sTheMan

06-18-2005, 05:56 PM

Originally posted by matrixman_397

Thanks for all your help guys. I'v actually been reading this thread for quite a while, only just registered recently.

Been very impressed with the clips i'v heard from people such as Dann'sTheMan and Tommi Inkila to mention just a few! In fact if it wasn't for this thread i would probably never have even thought about getting this amp! So thanks guys!

Will defineatly check those settings out when i try the amp out. My only concern to be honest is that i'd like to be able to get some Marshall type tones out of this thing but haven't heard anything along those lines yet. Just gotta wait and see i guess, the other amp i was thinking about getting was a Marshall DSL401 which i tried briefly but wasn't too impressed with. And thats where i came across the Mesa F50. :)

Hi matrixman_397,

I've yet to welcome you, my fellow Brit, to HCAF - I hope you have a huge amount of fun here. :cool: Glad that you've registered, and thanks for the namecheck. Regarding getting a Marshall type tone out of the F-50, I'd suggest checking out the settings proferred by JeffB - a long time Marshall devotee, who's been having fun with his F-50. Check out this thread (http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=826393). I've used Jeff's setting (contour engaged, bass on 10 o clockish, mids on 3 oclock, and treble at 9 o clock, gain on about 1 o clock) a fair bit recently, and it does sound crunchingly good. :p

I don't know if you've ever read the Guitarist magazine reviews of the F-series, but they commented that whilst the F-50 wore its American voicing loudly and proudly, the F-30 was capable of sounding "much closer to home" - just an interesting angle to keep at the back of your mind. Of course, you could run EL-84 tubes in the F-50 courtesy of THD Yellowjackets, but I understand that it sounds different to the F-30.

Me? I personally love the American voicing of the 6L6 F-series, and have been revelling and raving about the tones of my F-50 combo for the past two years, :)

Big smiles,

Andy.

markmann

06-18-2005, 09:19 PM

Tommi,

Thanks for the tube update. At some point I will be looking to replace my tubes with something a bit tighter. Thanks for sharing the results of your experimentations.

Mark

napalmshower05

06-18-2005, 09:27 PM

I'm now a member of the club. I traded my Marshall DSL100 head for the amazing F-30 combo. It truly is an awesome amp.

Time for questions:

How many run their F-series combo into a 2x12, or 4x12?
I have a V30-loaded Avatar 2x12 on the way that I initially bought for the Marshall. I tried the Mesa with a Rectifier 2x12 at GC and it sounded pretty damn good!! Hopefully, it will match up well with the Avatar..

How many have pulled preamp tubes in favor of something else?
I'm thinking of trying some 12AX7EH's to add some brightness. This amp is VERY warm sounding, and could use some highs.

Thanks in advance, and I'm humbled to join the elite F-series Lounge.

;)

krazeexharhar

06-19-2005, 12:30 AM

so i've been trying out the different amps and I think i might run with a mesa f-100 head. How does this compare to the f-50 head other htan clean headroom? And what are some good, affordable cabs I can use to go with it? I'm a college student so its pushing my pockets to get this amp haha.

No Soul

06-19-2005, 04:30 AM

Originally posted by krazeexharhar
so i've been trying out the different amps and I think i might run with a mesa f-100 head. How does this compare to the f-50 head other htan clean headroom? And what are some good, affordable cabs I can use to go with it? I'm a college student so its pushing my pockets to get this amp haha.

the 100 has a slightly darker sound with a slightly more pronounced lower-mid and bass response. However, this can be very negligable depending on how you have the amp EQ'd, what speakers and what guitar you are using.

Id say the primary difference is really is in the headroom.

Neat thing about the 100 though is it has a half power switch, so you can easily mimic the earlier clipping of a F50.

hal9000

06-19-2005, 09:56 AM

Originally posted by napalmshower05
I'm now a member of the club. I traded my Marshall DSL100 head for the amazing F-30 combo. It truly is an awesome amp.

Time for questions:

How many run their F-series combo into a 2x12, or 4x12?
I have a V30-loaded Avatar 2x12 on the way that I initially bought for the Marshall. I tried the Mesa with a Rectifier 2x12 at GC and it sounded pretty damn good!! Hopefully, it will match up well with the Avatar..
...;) Congrats, man! Welcome to the brotherhood. There is nothing like bringing home a new one. :)

To answer your question, I run my F-100 2x12 combo with an Avatar 2x12 closed-back with V30s. The Avatar adds a lot of bottom end to the already corpulent clean channel and tightens-up the OD channel for chest thumping bass. I love the combination of 3/4 tuned-back of the F-100 for enveloping cleans and closed back together because I get the best of both worlds. I guess you'll be running both the combo V30 and 2x12 at the same time? That would be a cool 3/8 stack :), especially if you put the 2x12 on its side.

Locky

06-19-2005, 12:34 PM

Tell us more about how the F100 sounds through the V30s. I've been looking at cabs and racking my brains over which speakers to get. How is the V30 mid spike? Any harshness at high volumes? Hows the center beem? Thanks

re_infecta

06-20-2005, 04:09 AM

Hello everyone,

I bought an used F-50 head few days ago. The amp came without a footswitch, so I'm now looking for a one. The local store could order me a new switch but the price tag is unreasonable, 220€!

Do you have any idea where I could get a footswitch cheaper? Is it hard to make one by self?

I have a normal 10-switch midi-controller. Could that be used somehow? I want to change channels, the contour and maybe enable/disable reverb. Are there any risks if I connect the controller to my Mesa and test what happens?

With kind regards,
R.I.

Tommi Inkila

06-20-2005, 04:34 AM

First of all, welcome to the club :)

Wow, the price for that footswitch is astronomical. Maybe you could ask for the pedal from some other store?

What midi-controller you have? The F doesn't do changes via normal midi although it have the same kind of DIN connector. If your midi controller have relay switches like ie. Behringer FCB1010 you can control the changes through that. You will lose the control of reverb unfortunately, that's the side effect. Without quite complicated setup and cabling you'll lose the reverb with relay switches.

There should be instructions by Dann'sTheMan on the first page of this topic for doing the cable for relay switches. I use my G-Major to change channels via relays and the G is controlled by a midi controller.

I hope this hels a bit :)

re_infecta

06-20-2005, 05:12 AM

Thanks, Tommi, for your reply. I have Digitech RP1 multieffect that can be used as a midi controller. I was here just wondering if you don't use your original footswitch, would you be interested in selling that to me?

or

I would be most grateful if some one could post here the schematics how to build an own copy of Mesa's F-50 footswitch. It shouldn't be that complicated to assemble, or is it?

hal9000

06-20-2005, 06:10 AM

Originally posted by Locky
Tell us more about how the F100 sounds through the V30s. I've been looking at cabs and racking my brains over which speakers to get. How is the V30 mid spike? Any harshness at high volumes? Hows the center beem? Thanks Hey, Locky.
Of course, my F-100 2x12 combo comes with Mesa's V30s and now I have the Avatar with V30s, so I guess you could say that I like them :). Since my V30s are broken-in, I'm guessing they pretty much sound the way they should being less harsh and having a little more bass. They still have a laser-beam, but all my amps have that regardless of the speakers. Plus, V30s record better for me than any other speaker. I like V30s overall because IMO they excel at both clean and high gain. They’re also very efficient (100 dB SPL 1W/1m) so even a mid-powered SS amp like my Carvin DCM 150 on 50W can keep up with my band. I've run my F-100 through my lead signer's 1960A w/ G12T-75s and they made the amp sound kind of softer all around, possibly a little more bass, not as clear, and didn't cut through as well. I also tried a Marshall 4x10 with Celestion Vintage 10s and it sounded good, but boy was it bright. As you would expect, it cut down on the bass and added treble, so the 4x10 would be perfect for clean country sounds. I should think a combination of speakers would also be nice to have, like a V30 and a G12H-30, since the V adds the mid punch and the H adds bass and brightness. BTW, definitely look at Avatar if you’re in the States. IMO, they’re the best deal around.

Dann'sTheMan

06-20-2005, 02:58 PM

Originally posted by Tommi Inkila
Tube update:

Hello! I've been messing around with preamp tubes, especially on V1... unfortunately no sound clips this time... here's some descriptions:

...

Well, no other thoughts for now... hopefully somebody finds something interesting on this post :)

Great post Tommi - thanks. Where do you recommend buying tubes from in Europe? Advice from all in the brotherhood most welcome, :)

Big smiles,

Andy.

Dann'sTheMan

06-20-2005, 03:06 PM

Originally posted by krazeexharhar
so i've been trying out the different amps and I think i might run with a mesa f-100 head. How does this compare to the f-50 head other htan clean headroom? And what are some good, affordable cabs I can use to go with it? I'm a college student so its pushing my pockets to get this amp haha.

Hi krazeexharhar,

I have extensively compared the F-100 and F-50 combos side by side. Admittedly, they have different speakers (V30s and C90s), but in spite of that, I couldn't separate them tonally - I found they were voiced almost identically. If I were splitting hairs, then I slightly preferred the clean on the F-100, and I slightly preferred the dirty on the F-50. In the end, as tone was not a deciding factor, I chose based on the weight of the combos (the F-100 was a two hand lift!).

I highly recommend trying the two amps side by side. Regardless of which you pick, I think they are both awesome amps, :)

Big smiles,

Andy.

Dann'sTheMan

06-20-2005, 03:17 PM

Originally posted by napalmshower05
I'm now a member of the club. I traded my Marshall DSL100 head for the amazing F-30 combo. It truly is an awesome amp.

...

Thanks in advance, and I'm humbled to join the elite F-series Lounge.

;)

Hi napalmshower05,

A warm welcome to the brotherhood! I hope you have as much fun with your F-30 as I do with my Boogie. :) There's no elitism in the Lounge - hey, they even let in riff-raff like me! :p

Big smiles,

Andy.

Dann'sTheMan

06-20-2005, 03:57 PM

Originally posted by re_infecta
Hello everyone,

I bought an used F-50 head few days ago. The amp came without a footswitch, so I'm now looking for a one. The local store could order me a new switch but the price tag is unreasonable, 220€!

Do you have any idea where I could get a footswitch cheaper? Is it hard to make one by self?

I have a normal 10-switch midi-controller. Could that be used somehow? I want to change channels, the contour and maybe enable/disable reverb. Are there any risks if I connect the controller to my Mesa and test what happens?

With kind regards,
R.I.

Hi re_infecta ,

Congratulations on your purchase and welcome to the F-series brotherhood. :)

The price tag on the footswitch really is unreasonable, and it shouldn't be a problem to make one up, it's a simple latching type switch. In fact if you were to find a third party three button footswitch that uses latching type switches (rather than the momentary types), you should be able to convert it. Alternatively, you could look at the Boss FS-5L (http://www.bosscorp.co.jp/products/en/FS-5L/index.html) and/or the FS-6 (http://www.bosscorp.co.jp/products/en/FS-6/index.html) (or similar) and then make up the custom cable that I describe on page 1 to connect it to your F-50.

Speaking of "page 1" I gather many of the brotherhood browse HCAF with the standard setting. For a meaty thread like this one, it quickly gets difficult to manage. Can I recommend that you go to your Profile page, and select "Edit Options" where you can change the "Default Posts Per Thread" setting to show 100 posts per page. :cool:

If you really want to make a footswitch from scratch, then let me know, as I'm sure I can send you some more details by e-mail for example,

Big smiles,

Andy.

re_infecta

06-21-2005, 01:42 AM

The price tag on the footswitch really is unreasonable, and it shouldn't be a problem to make one up, it's a simple latching type switch.

Hey, this is good news! I had my first band rehearsals with F-50 yesterday. We play some sort of metal music. I use the head with a Marshall 1960 4x12 cabinet and the gain sound was massive. ;D Also the clean parts sounded good & natural, so I'm very happy to hear that building a footswitch should be rather easy.

In fact if you were to find a third party three button footswitch that uses latching type switches (rather than the momentary types), you should be able to convert it.

Could you kindly point me one of these in www.thomann.de (preferably a model with LEDs)?

Alternatively, you could look at the Boss FS-5L and/or the FS-6 (or similar) and then make up the custom cable that I describe on page 1 to connect it to your F-50.

Which should be easier to build?
1. convert a third party 3-button switch OR
2. buy a Boss FS-6 and build a custom cable?

With the Boss FS-6 option I suppose that the reverb on/off won't work? Should the option work if I buy a 3-button switch and do the modification you referred to? But after all the most important options for me would be the "clean/gain channel switching" and the "contour on/off".

If you really want to make a footswitch from scratch, then let me know, as I'm sure I can send you some more details by e-mail for example.

I really appreciate your help, Andy!

With best regards,
RI

hal9000

06-21-2005, 06:32 AM

Originally posted by re_infecta
...Could you kindly point me one of these in www.thomann.de (preferably a model with LEDs)?

Which should be easier to build?
1. convert a third party 3-button switch OR
2. buy a Boss FS-6 and build a custom cable?
...With best regards,
RI For a quick solution this Boss FS-6L will work, but of course you'll still need to make a custom cable either way:

http://www.thomann.de/prodbilder/173531.jpg

Also, you could add another Boss FS-5L to be able to switch your reverb, but I find that I never switch the reverb on and off since each channel has a separate control. Anyway, if you go with the dual footswitch, you'll still have reverb, it will just be tied "on" all the time (connected to ground).

If I was going to modify one this is the way I would go (A simple dual switch with LEDs)

http://www.thomann.de/prodbilder/hughes_kettner_fs2_pimx_135680.jpg

The only caveat of the Boss FS-6L is it is battery operated, yet you are already getting power from the amp. I'm not sure how handy you are, but a simple mechanical dual footswitch, wired with two LED's (+current limiting resistors) will give you the exact look and function of the Mesa FS, without requiring power on its own. Let us know if you feel like looking into the DIY option.

re_infecta

06-21-2005, 07:35 AM

The only caveat of the Boss FS-6L is it is battery operated, yet you are already getting power from the amp. I'm not sure how handy you are, but a simple mechanical dual footswitch, wired with two LED's (+current limiting resistors) will give you the exact look and function of the Mesa FS, without requiring power on its own. Let us know if you feel like looking into the DIY option.

OK, good to know. I like to keep things simple, so a passive footswitch would be the one for me. Isn't it possible to buy a 3-button stock switch and make an exact copy of Mesa's footswitch with reverb on/off option, too? Which of the switches, that Thomann sells, could be modified correctly (I don't know what does "uses latching type switches" or "the momentary switches" mean)?

yourguitarhero

06-21-2005, 10:00 AM

I got some nice tones today.

Used the red channel with the mid and bass both at 3/4 and the treble at 0. Gain was on half and the master was on about 9:00 as I was in the house.

Hitting it with the green side of my jekyll & hyde with the gain all the way off and volume at half gave a really nice distortion, somewhat closer to a Marshall sound. It didn't add much gain or anything, just altered the sound a little, made it brighter.

Craig

Tommi Inkila

06-21-2005, 10:01 AM

Tommi Inkila

06-21-2005, 10:04 AM

Originally posted by Dann'sTheMan

Great post Tommi - thanks. Where do you recommend buying tubes from in Europe? Advice from all in the brotherhood most welcome, :)

Big smiles,

Andy.
Hi Andy!

I don't have much experience on european tube-sellers, I normally order them to a local store... Billington Gold has a store in UK http://www.bel-tubes.co.uk/ and I've heard lots of good things about http://www.tubeampdoctor.com/.

hal9000

06-21-2005, 10:16 AM

Originally posted by re_infecta

OK, good to know. I like to keep things simple, so a passive footswitch would be the one for me. Isn't it possible to buy a 3-button stock switch and make an exact copy of Mesa's footswitch with reverb on/off option, too? Which of the switches, that Thomann sells, could be modified correctly (I don't know what does "uses latching type switches" or "the momentary switches" mean)?
You could build one completely from piece parts if you wanted, but it would likely cost more to do it that way. Regardless, you need latching switches. Latching means that mechanically, when you press the button it physically connects its two terminals and they stay that way until you press it again, when it physically disconnects its two terminals, kind of the way a ball point pen operates. In addition, the amp supplies some voltage to the line which can drive an LED. So a hypothetical chain would be like this.
Mesa Channel Select out -> Green LED -> resistor (LED bias) -> (Single-Pole Single-Throw) SPST Footswitch. In one position, the LED gets ground so it lights up, in the other position, it is floating (circuit incomplete) and it is dark. Your footswitch would have three LED/Switch assemblies all connected to a 5-Pin DIN female connector. Then you just buy a standard 5-Pin DIN cable to connect to the amp. Make sense?

Dann'sTheMan

06-21-2005, 12:46 PM

Originally posted by re_infecta

Hey, this is good news! I had my first band rehearsals with F-50 yesterday. We play some sort of metal music. I use the head with a Marshall 1960 4x12 cabinet and the gain sound was massive. ;D Also the clean parts sounded good & natural, so I'm very happy to hear that building a footswitch should be rather easy.

Could you kindly point me one of these in www.thomann.de (preferably a model with LEDs)?

Which should be easier to build?
1. convert a third party 3-button switch OR
2. buy a Boss FS-6 and build a custom cable?

With the Boss FS-6 option I suppose that the reverb on/off won't work? Should the option work if I buy a 3-button switch and do the modification you referred to? But after all the most important options for me would be the "clean/gain channel switching" and the "contour on/off".

I really appreciate your help, Andy!

With best regards,
RI

Hi RI,

As hal9000 rightly pointed out, building one from parts is not that difficult - all you need is a latching switch (sometimes called Push-to-make/Push-to-break switch) and some LEDs. I'm attaching the Mesa circuit diagram for the footswitch (they sent it to me upon request when I was was making my custom DIN footswitch cable). The footswitch is the circuit in the lower half of the diagram, and as you can see it is not at all complex. :cool:

If it were me, I would probably look to convert an existing footswitch (thanks hal9000 for pointing out that the Boss FS-6 is powered by batteries and therefore not really a good choice I think). I would ask thomann.de if this footswitch (http://www.thomann.de/thoiw2_bespeco_vm34_prodinfo.html?sn=a85685d8daf68 f38b26be5f76354cfe2) or this footswitch (http://www.thomann.de/thoiw2_eurolite_fussschalter_dimmerbar_prodinfo.ht ml?sn=a85685d8daf68f38b26be5f76354cfe2) has latching switches, and if so, use that as a starting point. You will need to think about the polarity of the LEDs, potentially an appropriate load resistor for the LEDs, and of course a custom cable to go from the 6.3mm jacks in the footswitch to the 5-pin DIN connector on the amp. :)

By the way, hal9000 is spot on, if you tend to leave the reverb on a single setting for an entire song i.e. you don't switch it on and off mid song, then you can leave the reverb on all the time, and simply turn the reverb level to zero when you don't want it (this is what I do). If this is the case, then you could buy a two button footswitch instead of a three.

I hope all of this doesn't sound too complicated - it is pretty straight forward, but communicating it is not so easy - hopefully the circuit diagram will help. Circuit diagrams are bread and butter for hal9000 and I because we're both electronic engineering graduates, :p

Big smiles,

Andy.

Big smiles,

Andy.

re_infecta

06-21-2005, 01:52 PM

Thank you Hal and Andy,

I attached a diagram picture. Is this the way to do it?
- I need to buy:
* a stock switch, like this one http://www.thomann.de/thoiw2_bespeco_vm34_prodinfo.html?sn=a85685d8daf68 f38b26be5f76354cfe2
* three mono jacks
* cable from connecting these jacks to a 5-pin socket (which I connect to the Mesa's original 5-pin cable)

Still, I have build only very simple electrical applications, so even the diagram you posted seemed very complicated. I'm afraid that I need very comprehensive step-by-step instructions to pull this through :).

I didn't understand the part of your text conserning LEDs. What should I be concerned about?

Are there any danger for my amplifier if I build the FS somehow wrong?

--

Then there is always the option that I buy FCB1010 (http://www.thomann.de/thoiw2_behringer_fcb_1010_prodinfo.html?sn=a85685d 8daf68f38b26be5f76354cfe2) and build the custom cable instructed on the first page. This should work? Some day I could use the whole potential of this Behringer when I have the money to buy a G-major rack.

hal9000

06-21-2005, 02:09 PM

Originally posted by re_infecta
Thank you Hal and Andy,

I attached a diagram picture. Is this the way to do it?
- I need to buy:
* a stock switch, like this one http://www.thomann.de/thoiw2_bespeco_vm34_prodinfo.html?sn=a85685d8daf68 f38b26be5f76354cfe2
* three mono jacks
* cable from connecting these jacks to a 5-pin socket (which I connect to the Mesa's original 5-pin cable)

Still, I have build only very simple electrical applications, so even the diagram you posted seemed very complicated. I'm afraid that I need very comprehensive step-by-step instructions to pull this through :).

I didn't understand the part of your text conserning LEDs. What should I be concerned about?

Are there any danger for my amplifier if I build the FS somehow wrong? What you posted will work, but I'm afraid it will be quite cumbersome with all the cabling required. If you're convinced you need three switches a better solution would be to get this FS from Hughes and Kettner called the FS-3:

http://www.hughes-and-kettner.com/images/products/grossbild/fs3_big6189.jpg

It seems to have everything you need including the 5-Pin DIN cable and is passive. You might need to change the LEDs, but they look standard. From Mesa's schematic that Andy posted, the bias resistor is already in-line on the amp side, so all you need is the LED to ground. BTW, the correct sequence for the Mesa F-series footswitch:
Clean (Green LED ON),
OD (Green LED OFF), and
Contour (Green LED OFF/ Red LED ON)

re_infecta

06-21-2005, 02:22 PM

It seems to have everything you need including the 5-Pin DIN cable and is passive. You might need to change the LEDs, but they look standard. From Mesa's schematic that Andy posted, the bias resistor is already in-line on the amp side, so all you need is the LED to ground. BTW, the correct sequence for the Mesa F-series footswitch:
Clean (Green LED ON),
OD (Green LED OFF), and
Contour (Green LED OFF/ Red LED ON)

The FS-3 looks good. The price is only 55 €. Thanks for the tip!

What would happen if the LEDs are not compatible with Mesa? I mean I really don't know how in practice I would connect "the LED to ground" like you said. If I just buy FS-3 and do no modification and then try directly with my F-50, is the worst thing that could happen that the LEDs won't lit correctly or at all?

Vigo1999

06-21-2005, 02:28 PM

Hey Guys!! :)

New to the forum and longtime Boogie user (or should i say addict?), asking permission to join that sweet talk. Talking from Rio de Janeiro, Brazil.

I'm not a F series user (have a Rocket 440 head, a DC-3 head and a goo'ol caliber 50+ head - any setup tips??), but really want to share experiences.;)

thanks,

Glauco.

hal9000

06-21-2005, 02:56 PM

Dann'sTheMan

06-21-2005, 06:03 PM

Originally posted by re_infecta

The FS-3 looks good. The price is only 55 €. Thanks for the tip!

What would happen if the LEDs are not compatible with Mesa? I mean I really don't know how in practice I would connect "the LED to ground" like you said. If I just buy FS-3 and do no modification and then try directly with my F-50, is the worst thing that could happen that the LEDs won't lit correctly or at all?

The FS-3 seems like a great find - good job hal9000! :) You're right, the worst that could happen is that the LEDs don't light at all. You'll need to check that the pins on the DIN connector are wired as you expect i.e. pin 1 = ground, and pins 4, 2 and 5 are for footswitches 1, 2 and 3. If they are not, you can simply rewire the pins. If the LEDs don't turn on, then all you need to do is swap the two connecting wires around for each LED. :cool:

By the way, thomann.de has a great deal on the G-Major at the moment -> only 379 EUR (see here (http://www.thomann.de/thoiw2_tc_electronic_gmajor_prodinfo.html?sn=a8568 5d8daf68f38b26be5f76354cfe2)). I bought one from them a couple of months ago, and I'm really enjoying it with my F-50. :)

Big smiles,

Andy.

Dann'sTheMan

06-21-2005, 06:09 PM

Originally posted by Vigo1999
Hey Guys!! :)

New to the forum and longtime Boogie user (or should i say addict?), asking permission to join that sweet talk. Talking from Rio de Janeiro, Brazil.

I'm not a F series user (have a Rocket 440 head, a DC-3 head and a goo'ol caliber 50+ head - any setup tips??), but really want to share experiences.;)

thanks,

Glauco.

No need to ask permission, Glauco!

The more the merrier. :p Welcome to HCAF, and a big thank you for making your very first post here in our Lounge. There's nothing but respect for Randall Smith and his talent as an amp designer in these parts, so as far as I'm concerned all Mesa brothers are welcome. :)

That's quite a harem of Mesa amps you have there, Glauco. Here in Europe, Mesas command boutique prices - how about Brazil? Tell us more about your sweet amp collection, and how you use them musically. :cool:

Big smiles,

Andy.

re_infecta

06-22-2005, 12:32 AM

By the way, thomann.de has a great deal on the G-Major at the moment -> only 379 EUR (see here (http://www.thomann.de/thoiw2_tc_electronic_gmajor_prodinfo.html?sn=a8568 5d8daf68f38b26be5f76354cfe2)). I bought one from them a couple of months ago, and I'm really enjoying it with my F-50. :)

OK, I'll summarize my options:

Option 1: I'll buy a FS-3 and modify it. Total costs are 55 €. But one day when I do need effects, I have to buy a midi controller. I think I'm going to buy a effect processors in a month or two.

Option 2: I'll buy straight away Behringer FCB-1010. Total costs are 150 € + parts to make the Andy's custom cable. Then I'll use FCB as a normal footswitch until I order my midi controlled effect processor. In my opinion it sounds very handy that you could switch from clean channel with some chorus/delay to a harsh gain channel with a pinch of flanger by a single foot tap (and not by first pressing the channel switch and then tapping separately a switch on the effect processor). Should this work also with other effect processor (for example V-amp 2 Pro) than G-major as long as I have FCB-1010 and the custom cable?

If go through the option 2:

- Could that Behringer be used correctly with a custom-made cable? It's much cheaper than for example Rocktron's midi controllers. What midi controller do you use with your modded cable?

- The reverb on/off won't work with the custom cable but is the reverb of F-50 locked in "on"-position or in "off"-position?

No Soul

06-22-2005, 01:27 AM

Originally posted by re_infecta

I had my first band rehearsals with F-50 yesterday. We play some sort of metal music. I use the head with a Marshall 1960 4x12 cabinet and the gain sound was massive. ;D Also the clean parts sounded good & natural,

sweet, Im also a metal guy (well at least I still am tone-wise)
and I run an F-100 w/ 1960 cab. Its much tigther than any of mesas offerings.

Dann'sTheMan

06-22-2005, 04:28 AM

Originally posted by re_infecta

OK, I'll summarize my options:

Option 1: I'll buy a FS-3 and modify it. Total costs are 55 €. But one day when I do need effects, I have to buy a midi controller. I think I'm going to buy a effect processors in a month or two.

Option 2: I'll buy straight away Behringer FCB-1010. Total costs are 150 € + parts to make the Andy's custom cable. Then I'll use FCB as a normal footswitch until I order my midi controlled effect processor. In my opinion it sounds very handy that you could switch from clean channel with some chorus/delay to a harsh gain channel with a pinch of flanger by a single foot tap (and not by first pressing the channel switch and then tapping separately a switch on the effect processor). Should this work also with other effect processor (for example V-amp 2 Pro) than G-major as long as I have FCB-1010 and the custom cable?

If go through the option 2:

- Could that Behringer be used correctly with a custom-made cable? It's much cheaper than for example Rocktron's midi controllers. What midi controller do you use with your modded cable?

- The reverb on/off won't work with the custom cable but is the reverb of F-50 locked in "on"-position or in "off"-position?

Hello RI,

You've summed up your options very well. :)

Regarding my rig, I use a Mesa F-50, a G-Major and a FCB1010 - I think that should make you smile. :p

I also use the FCB1010 with a POD and sometimes with a Zoom 9030, so the Behringer will have no problems talking via MIDI to other devices like the V-Amp Pro (whilst still switching your F-50 via the custom cable). If you get the Behringer, you can run it in normal Bank mode, allowing you to program three switches (one for Rhythm, one for Lead and one for Contour) - this is what I do; or you can run it in Direct Select mode, allowing for example the Down switch to toggle between Rhythm and Lead, and the Up switch to toggle Contour On and Off (i.e. similar to the Mesa footswitch). :cool:

Regarding your question about Reverb on/off - you're right the F-50 will be locked, but it's completely up to you. I wired my custom cable so that the Reverb is locked ON, allowing me to still adjust the level from the amp's front panel. :)

Big smiles,

Andy.

re_infecta

06-22-2005, 04:55 AM

Hey, nice to hear that. Just to make sure: If I buy a FCB-1010 then I can have simultaneously switches that change only the channel, swithes that only change effects and switches that do both (first changes channel and activate an effect/effects) with a single foot- tap? If so, I think I'm going for the option 2 and spend 150€. To make a custom cable I'll need:

- 5-pin "midi" connector
- 2x mono-jacks
- some wire between the connector and the jacks
- soldering iron

That shouldn't cost more than 5-10€. :)

I'll report here how did the building process go when I get my FCB-1010 from Thomann. Big thanks for your advice and help!

-RI-

hal9000

06-22-2005, 05:59 AM

Originally posted by re_infecta
Hey, nice to hear that. I think I'm going for the option 2. To make a custom cable I'll need:

- 5-pin "midi" connector
- 2x mono-jacks
- some wire between the connector and the jacks
- soldering iron

Shouldn't cost more than 5-10€. :)

I'll report here how did the building process go when I get my FCB-1010 from Thomann. Big thanks for your advice and help!

-RI- Re_infecta do you already have a multimeter? If not, they are invalvuable for this kind of project and can be had cheap. I recommend a digital multimeter if you plan on doing more of this, but I'm not sure what the offerings are in Europe.

re_infecta

06-22-2005, 06:02 AM

Originally posted by hal9000
Re_infecta do you already have a multimeter? If not, they are invalvuable for this kind of project and can be had cheap. I recommend a digital multimeter if you plan on doing more of this, but I'm not sure what the offerings are in Europe.

Yes, I can borrow one from a friend of mine. But I'm not quite sure where should I need a multimeter in this project? Still, I'm a novice in electrical engineering.

hal9000

06-22-2005, 06:09 AM

Originally posted by re_infecta

Yes, I can borrow one from a friend of mine. But I'm not quit sure where should I need a multimeter in this project? This project is simple, so you only need to verify the connections that you made are correct. For instance, set the MM to ohms (or continuity depending on the model) and connect one lead to a 1/4" tip, then the other lead to the pin you're testing on the 5-Pin Din connector. If you get a reading around the error of the range (0.1 Ohms) you have a good connection. This way, you can verify that the connections you made have continuity and are on the right pin. Most of the time cables aren't color coded so the only way to know which pin corresponds to which wire you have to check continuity until you find the right one. PM me if you have any MM questions.

Vigo1999

06-22-2005, 07:51 AM

No need to ask permission, Glauco! The more the merrier. Welcome to HCAF, and a big thank you for making your very first post here in our Lounge. There's nothing but respect for Randall Smith and his talent as an amp designer in these parts, so as far as I'm concerned all Mesa brothers are welcome.

Hey Andy!!!

Thanks for the warm welcome!:) And even greater is that we can talk not only about our love for tones but outr other loves, such football (assuming you, as an European, like it so much as we, south Americans)

I've been a long time Mesa user, but i've had stucked with one piece for a long time - Triaxis and 50/50. Get tired of noddling around with to much edit banks and the likes, rather expend my time playing!!:D

Now i'm more on to the good'ol' head amp/pedals rig again.

As far as prices here, on the "official market" (stores), they're REALLY expensive, i mean, they ask around 4.000usd for a Dual Rec head here. But, if you have the chance (and know how) to somenone ship it here, it's a breeze. I've only buy my heads on ebay trough trust sellers (if you want i gave you their mails, fast), who knows how to make it cheap (i'm talking about the customs forms here . . .). I've sold my other rig and bought those 3 heads (one at a time, of course - in fact the Rocket 440 still in the US, gonna be shipped by the end of the month, sorry, but this one i can't tell you much how it sounds yet . . .):D

Sure for the DC-3 and the Caliber 50+ i will share my experiences, but in a next post, that one's getting long!! don't wanna bother all my new friends so early;) LOL!

A Beat from the Heat,

Glauco.

Dann'sTheMan

06-22-2005, 07:58 AM

Originally posted by re_infecta
Hey, nice to hear that. Just to make sure: If I buy a FCB-1010 then I can have simultaneously switches that change only the channel, swithes that only change effects and switches that do both (first changes channel and activate an effect/effects) with a single foot- tap?

...

-RI-

Hi RI,

Let me carefully address this question, because it is subtly more complicated than your original requirement - "In my opinion it sounds very handy that you could switch from clean channel with some chorus/delay to a harsh gain channel with a pinch of flanger by a single foot tap". :p

You can certainly use the FCB1010 just to change amp channels whilst you wait to get another effects processor. However, when you get another effects processor (and if your RP-1 supports MIDI In, you could potentially use this to begin with), there will be some limitations because of the way the FCB1010 works (it stores the amp channel setting at the patch level).

When you get another effects processor, then you can simultaneously have switches on the FCB1010 set up to:
* switch both the amp channel and switch the effects patch at the same time.
* switch the amp channel only and leave the FX where they are i.e. by not sending any Program Change or CC Midi messages (I've not tried turning off BOTH Program Change and CC messages but I believe it's possible)

However the third permutation i.e. switching the FX patch but leaving the amp channel the same as before is a problem. This is because I do not believe you can get the FCB1010 to send out a MIDI Program Change or CC message to an FX unit without setting the amp to a given channel.

Hopefully the above functionality will still be enough for what you need to do. If you have any questions about this then don't hesitate. :)

I have yet to explore the possibilities of switching when using the G-Major, but it will certainly be able to simultaneouly switch the amp channel and the FX patch. Have you considered buying the G-Major first, and letting it control the amp switching, and then controlling the G-Major from your RP-1?

Big smiles,

Andy.

phyrexia

06-22-2005, 12:50 PM

Does anybody know if it would be possible to include a bright/normal switch for the clean channel on a footswitch? I haven't opened my head up to look at it yet. I guess it'd be a pretty serious mod though.

Tommi Inkila

06-22-2005, 12:58 PM

Originally posted by Dann'sTheMan

I have yet to explore the possibilities of switching when using the G-Major, but it will certainly be able to simultaneouly switch the amp channel and the FX patch. Have you considered buying the G-Major first, and letting it control the amp switching, and then controlling the G-Major from your RP-1?

This is the way how I use my setup of G and the F. It's problem free live (well, if you change the sound while not playing you may hear some snap every now and then) and the cable is really easy to make for this setup. I don't use the reverbs from the amp, all comes from the G-Major, although the amps own reverb is very usable.

Dann'sTheMan

06-22-2005, 03:06 PM

Originally posted by Tommi Inkila

This is the way how I use my setup of G and the F. It's problem free live (well, if you change the sound while not playing you may hear some snap every now and then) and the cable is really easy to make for this setup. I don't use the reverbs from the amp, all comes from the G-Major, although the amps own reverb is very usable.

Hi Tommi,

I've been holding off converting my cable to work with the G-Major, because when I make the move (and thus allow a short cable run between the amp and FX unit rather than a long run between the amp to the foot controller) I want to consider using CC messages to turn effect blocks on and off on the G Major (stomp box style). Do you set up your system like this? I haven't gotten it straight in my head yet how I want to set up my footcontroller when I make the move - perhaps the bottom row of 5 switches to select patches and the top row of 5 switches to toggle effects blocks in and out. Do you have any recommendations? :)

Speaking of recommendations, have you come across this G-Major forum (http://www.flickerdown.com/gmajor/) yet? It seems as if they have a good PC patch editor there. Might be cool to exchange patches with other F-series owners... :cool:

As for the cable, I may actually have to make another one. I remember putting the old one in a safe place because I didn't want to take it with me to the Berlin gig in May, and now I can't find it. :p

Big smiles,

Andy.

re_infecta

06-23-2005, 01:23 AM

Now I am really confused. What is the difference bewteen Andy's and Tommi's ways to use the F with G-major? Which is "better" (or more handy)? What's the difference in cabling/modification?

I'm sorry I have all these questions. I just want to make sure that I understand everything clearly before placing an order to Thomann.

presa_tito

06-23-2005, 01:35 AM

Quick question to the brotherhood.
I'm about to pickup a F30 through the mail without playing it first. I've read some people say that it is almost too loud for the house and I might need a hotplate. What have you found. I will open it up, I also don't want to go deaf. 30 watts isn't that much for an amp, but it can still get loud.
My alternative would be the Traynor blue 50 which has the advantages of being cheaper, self adjusting bias, and sounds good at low volumes. I really dig the sound of the F series and want to get one if they aren't too bad for bedroom playing and recording.

Locky

06-23-2005, 01:51 AM

My F50 can sound great at low volumes. I'm sure the F30 could only sound better. A cheap way to attenuate your amp is get a volume pedal, throw it in the loop and turn the loop on 60%, with the pedal up. This allows you to run the amp on higher volumes. Welcome to the brotherhood.

Dann'sTheMan

06-23-2005, 07:07 AM

Originally posted by re_infecta
Now I am really confused. What is the difference bewteen Andy's and Tommi's ways to use the F with G-major? Which is "better" (or more handy)? What's the difference in cabling/modification?

I'm sorry I have all these questions. I just want to make sure that I understand everything clearly before placing an order to Thomann.

Hello RI,

I'm sorry if this sounds confusing, I'll try to explain a bit more, and perhaps if you could give me some more insight into your understanding of footswitch and MIDI operation, I can hopefully do a better job of pitching this at the right level. :)

The key thing to understand is that your amp is going to be switched by relays (a latching switch that can be electronically controlled). The FCB1010 has two relays built in so it can do the job. The G-Major also has two relays so it can also do the job. The cable for switching the amp will always have a DIN connector at the amp end; however if it connects to the FCB1010, it will terminate with 2 mono 6.3mm jacks; but if it connects to the G-major, it will terminate with 1 stereo 6.3 mm jack. Both solutions will likely be wired to switch Rhythm/Lead; Contour On/Off and Reverb permanently left On.

The length of the cable is likely different for each solution, as most people would likely position a G-Major close to the amp, but perhaps would position a FCB-1010 further away. I personally like the idea of switching from the G-Major as it's one less cable on the floor.

The G-major will definitely be able to:
*A) switch both the amp channel and switch the effects patch at the same time.

Until I dig deeper, I won't know if it can:
*B) switch the amp channel only and leave the FX where they are
*C) switch an effect patch, but leave the amp channel the same (an example would be have your amp on the clean channel and go to patch 27 for a chorus sound; but later in the set, have your amp on the lead channel and go to patch 27 for a chorus sound - is there a way to avoid the amp automatically switching to the clean channel and thus avoid the need to use up another patch for the lead with chorus sound)
Perhaps Tommi can help with these two issues? In comparison, as I said in the previous post, the FCB1010 can do *A) and *B) but NOT *C).

Please let me know if this is helping or confusing more (and if so, where specifically it's clouding things) :p

Big smiles,

Andy.

Dann'sTheMan

06-23-2005, 07:08 AM

Originally posted by Locky
My F50 can sound great at low volumes. I'm sure the F30 could only sound better. A cheap way to attenuate your amp is get a volume pedal, throw it in the loop and turn the loop on 60%, with the pedal up. This allows you to run the amp on higher volumes. Welcome to the brotherhood.

+1. There is more on the Volume-pedal-in-the-loop trick earlier in the thread. Makes the F-series a great bedroom level amp! :)

Big smiles,

Andy.

Tommi Inkila

06-23-2005, 08:12 AM

About the G-Major operation:

A will definately work (see Andy's post above).

B is not likely possible with G-Major to my knowledge... you can make two patches with same effects, but different channels. Works also other way around... change effects, but leave the channel unchanged (same relay settings for different patches).

C is also quite tricky... I guess you can change individual effects on and off with appropriate (heh, did I spell it right) controller.

I personally have an old ADA midi controller which have only bank change so my sounds are set separately. 1 for lead, 2 for rhythm, 3 for clean, 4 for trippy echoes and 5 octaver.

RI before you do any orders the FCB1010 can be bought cheaper from Finland, but G-Major is a bargain on Thomann.

Tommi Inkila

06-23-2005, 08:15 AM

F-Lounge Exclusive:

I've been doing some soundchecks for my guitar sound for our album today. Here's something I came up with, slightly mixed, but not mastered version... my ears are tired at the moment so I need fresh ones :)

http://koti.mbnet.fi/ojakola/Prowled_soundcheck.mp3

Let me know what you think :rolleyes:

hal9000

06-23-2005, 08:22 AM

markmann

06-23-2005, 11:00 AM

Let me know what you think

I think it's awesome. Great stereo effect on the guitar. Did you use the same mic'ing technique that you used on your previous clips?

Thanks for another excellent clip!!!

Mark

Dann'sTheMan

06-23-2005, 02:43 PM

Originally posted by Tommi Inkila
F-Lounge Exclusive:

I've been doing some soundchecks for my guitar sound for our album today. Here's something I came up with, slightly mixed, but not mastered version... my ears are tired at the moment so I need fresh ones :)

http://koti.mbnet.fi/ojakola/Prowled_soundcheck.mp3

Let me know what you think :rolleyes:

Wow! Thanks for this great insight Tommi. I'd really love to hear how this section develops once you've had a chance to master it a little. You've already got a great result from the tracking -> once your fantastic ears get to work and apply your awesome production skills -> I can only imagine! :eek: Maybe you'll allow us to compare the before and after and learn from your wealth of experience?

Thanks for putting a huge grin on my face! :D

Big smiles,

Andy.

"sasquatch"

06-23-2005, 02:56 PM

sounds really, really good man. it is sooooo clear. i am jealous :mad: :p

give us some input on the equipment, setup, etc...

ROCK ON!

andershoeg

06-23-2005, 04:32 PM

Hello! Just wanted to tell you guys that today I bought a F-30 combo! Haven't played more than 15 minuttes through it (visitors and new amp = AAARRRRGGHHH!!!) Well, and I can tell you that this thread helped me a little bit on my way to the store :)
So far; sounds just gorgious! Can't wait till tomorrow to really crank the bastard! I also have a single rectifier, series 2, and i love that thing a lot! Nevertheless, it's placed at my band's rehearsalroom, so i can't play it more than about twice a week. THEREFOR; i HAD to have another amp for home (and for small venue gigging/rehearsing with other musicians). I'm SO excited to see if my F-30 is loud enough for these purposses, would be nice to just take my combo, some pedals and my guitar to small gigs, jamming, asf.
So cheers to you all for sharing all your great words of wisdom :)
You will probably hear more from me on the near future, when i have tried the little devil some more
:p

B.R. Anders

Tommi Inkila

06-23-2005, 04:59 PM

Thanks guys!

I'm glad you liked the sound, because it's going to be my main sound on our album :)

The settings are basicly almost the same I had for "Building The Mood"...

CH2+Contour
Gain and treble: slightly over 12:00
Middle and bass: 11:00
Master 9:30

EB/MM Petrucci Model -> F-50 head -> H&K 4x12" cab with v30's -> SM57 -> SPL Goldmike mk2 -> Cubase SX2.2 -> some compression from plugin

Also I changed the preamp tubes...

V1 JJ, V2 Golden Dragon, V3 Mesa, V4 Billington Gold... heh, quite a mess :)

I was after smoother overall sound than in "Building The Mood", 'cause I felt that it's not the sound I would like to hear throughout the album. Also mixing with that kind of dominating sound would be hard. Especially, because now the real drums consume much more of the frequency bandwith than the midi drums on the older clip.

I'll upload some clips when I get down to the mixing phase. Most likely I'll do some EQ-work. I'm looking for better plugins at the moment. I already got the UAD which is great, but I still feel that I need precise EQ, perhaps Voxengo CurveEQ.

We are going to put the mastering on the CD to professional hands... maybe I'll try myself, but mastering is such an art itself... :)

jrc6

06-23-2005, 07:51 PM

Tommi!

You're a genius! Man that tone is incredible! It is incredibly clear, that F50 cuts! I have been messing around with eminence speakers, and have yet to get them to sound as clear as the vintage 30. I might just have to ditch the eminence and go with the v30.

You certainly nailed a rectifier tone, but the F50 sounds so much smoother!

great job!

jrc

hal9000

06-23-2005, 09:07 PM

I thought you guys might like to see a real pic of my rig rather than my virtual one:

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y34/afraiddave/hal9000sRig.jpg

My #1:
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y34/afraiddave/hal9000FatStrat.jpg

Dann'sTheMan

06-24-2005, 06:15 AM

Originally posted by andershoeg
Hello! Just wanted to tell you guys that today I bought a F-30 combo! Haven't played more than 15 minuttes through it (visitors and new amp = AAARRRRGGHHH!!!) Well, and I can tell you that this thread helped me a little bit on my way to the store :)
So far; sounds just gorgious! Can't wait till tomorrow to really crank the bastard! I also have a single rectifier, series 2, and i love that thing a lot! Nevertheless, it's placed at my band's rehearsalroom, so i can't play it more than about twice a week. THEREFOR; i HAD to have another amp for home (and for small venue gigging/rehearsing with other musicians). I'm SO excited to see if my F-30 is loud enough for these purposses, would be nice to just take my combo, some pedals and my guitar to small gigs, jamming, asf.
So cheers to you all for sharing all your great words of wisdom :)
You will probably hear more from me on the near future, when i have tried the little devil some more
:p

B.R. Anders

Hi Anders,

Welcome to the brotherhood. I hope you've been able to find some time to enjoy your new amp, and that your visitors weren't too upset by your lack of concentration! :p

Tell us more about your band and the kind of music you play! :)

Big smiles,

Andy.

andershoeg

06-24-2005, 06:50 AM

Hey Dann'stheman! Thank you for welcoming me to the brotherhood :) Yes, I couldn't wait for my guests to leave :D , but when they did my neighbours were asleep......:mad: had to wait till today: AND TODAY I HAVE BEEN PLAYING IT (low volume) FOR ABOUT 3 HOURS! What a SWEEEEEEET thing this is! I absolutely love it! Have had a long period not practicing at home, but this new baby sure will get me started again! I'm just a 30 year old happy man right now! :)
Regarding my bands music; we play some kind of rock. Just have a listen at www.frangoheep.dk :) Much easier to have a listen than me trying to explain genre, style, asf. The player is located at the left of the site. BTW, the guitars was recorded through my old setup; a Triaxis and a 2:90. Sounded really good.......but not as good as what I have now; a single rectifier through a 4x12" 1960a. And now this f-30 baby :) I look forward to do some recordings with it. Think it's gonna be used on our next band-recording! Exciting:p
If you want to you are more than welcome to write a note in our band guestbook!(the text-button called "gæstebog") Would be nice :)

Thanks again!
B.R. Anders

Vigo1999

06-24-2005, 01:12 PM

Hey Guys!! have sme questions for my new friends:

I'm having some trouble hookin up my effects with my amps. I'm taking all my time based effects trough the loop on my boogies and wanting to put a volume pedal to use it like a expression pedal, just adding effects to my sound, when wanted.

But . . . it didn't work . . . when i do that and lower the volume on the pedal, the whole sound gets down, not only the effects. What should i do?? HELP!!:(

A beat from the heat,

Glauco.

Dann'sTheMan

06-24-2005, 02:58 PM

Originally posted by andershoeg
Hey Dann'stheman! Thank you for welcoming me to the brotherhood :)

B.R. Anders

Wow Anders!

What is it with Scandinavians and their musical talent? :p Awesome website and great musicianship on your band's songs - which I thought were very querky and cool. I liked them and I loved your guitaring contributions - most impressed. I left a brief message in your guestbook. :cool:

I look forward to hearing more of your music, and if it happens to involve your new F-30, then even better. :)

Big smiles,

Andy.

Dann'sTheMan

06-24-2005, 03:24 PM

Originally posted by Vigo1999
Hey Guys!! have sme questions for my new friends:

I'm having some trouble hookin up my effects with my amps. I'm taking all my time based effects trough the loop on my boogies and wanting to put a volume pedal to use it like a expression pedal, just adding effects to my sound, when wanted.

But . . . it didn't work . . . when i do that and lower the volume on the pedal, the whole sound gets down, not only the effects. What should i do?? HELP!!:(

A beat from the heat,

Glauco.

Hi Glauco,

I don't believe you can achieve what you want to with a simple volume pedal. You're really after a Wet/Dry Mix control that can be dynamically set with an expression pedal. Such functionality is common in a MIDI controlled multi-fx unit set-up - indeed I sometimes use an expression pedal to vary the mix level of the chorus effect in my rig.

However, I don't remember seeing a stomp box style solution for this - maybe someone else in the brotherhood has? The closest I can think of is a Line mixer, but I've not seen one with expression control for the mix level. You might also look at DJ mixers to see if you could find one with expression control for the cross fade feature. Sorry I can't suggest something specific,

Big smiles,

Andy.

andershoeg

06-24-2005, 05:06 PM

Hey Dann'stheman! Thank you for posting in our guestbook! NICE! :) And thank you VERY much for your kind words! Glad to hear you like it! I will certainly use my new f-30-baby on our next recordings, so I will deffinitely let you know when it happens! AND: I would love to play a gig in England, so you could hear Fran Go Heep live! Actually, we are a lot better live than on the recordings (at least thats what I think! Much more energy!). And thanks again for your fine guestbook-comments! Love it!

B.R. from Denmark
Anders

Dann'sTheMan

06-27-2005, 06:33 AM

Originally posted by Dann'sTheMan

Hi Tommi,

I've been holding off converting my cable to work with the G-Major, because when I make the move (and thus allow a short cable run between the amp and FX unit rather than a long run between the amp to the foot controller) I want to consider using CC messages to turn effect blocks on and off on the G Major (stomp box style). Do you set up your system like this? I haven't gotten it straight in my head yet how I want to set up my footcontroller when I make the move - perhaps the bottom row of 5 switches to select patches and the top row of 5 switches to toggle effects blocks in and out. Do you have any recommendations? :)

Speaking of recommendations, have you come across this G-Major forum (http://www.flickerdown.com/gmajor/) yet? It seems as if they have a good PC patch editor there. Might be cool to exchange patches with other F-series owners... :cool:

As for the cable, I may actually have to make another one. I remember putting the old one in a safe place because I didn't want to take it with me to the Berlin gig in May, and now I can't find it. :p

Big smiles,

Andy.

Well I still haven't unearthed my old converter cable, and as I was in the vicinity of the electronics parts shop (Maplins) yesterday, I swung by and got the bits that I need for my F-series to G-Major convertor cable. It all came in at a grand total of £1.97 i.e. less than $4/€3. :cool:

I'll probably make up the cable tonight, and I'll let you know the results. I'm leaning towards programming each bank of my controller to have 8 switches that take me directly to the right Amp channel & FX combination; 1 switch for the G-Major's solo boost toggle function; and 1 switch for Tap Tempo. I don't usually put reverb in my patches, but then the G-Major sounds so nice, so I haven't made up my mind yet. What do you guys think? :)

Big smiles,

Andy.

Tommi Inkila

06-27-2005, 09:38 AM

Originally posted by jrc6
Tommi!

You're a genius! Man that tone is incredible! It is incredibly clear, that F50 cuts! I have been messing around with eminence speakers, and have yet to get them to sound as clear as the vintage 30. I might just have to ditch the eminence and go with the v30.

You certainly nailed a rectifier tone, but the F50 sounds so much smoother!

great job!

jrc
Thanks a lot, I'm speechless :)

I'd like to get a chance to test different speakers as well... what comes to v30's, I think they're great, punchy and warm. Also it compliments the resonant peak of SM57 creating an octave with its own resonant peak.

F is the little, but feisty recto indeed
:D

Tommi Inkila

06-27-2005, 09:42 AM

Originally posted by Dann'sTheMan
What do you guys think? :)

Hi ya,

I'd probably go the same route. I personally don't need the ability to add something on the pre-programmed sound on live situation, because my sounds are quite song specific. I'd imagine 8 (or more) different pre-programmed sounds would suffice, but on the other hand, my playing doesn't need so varied sounds. G-Major has some great reverbs so I definately recommend to experiment with them. Big hall with dynamic delays (can't beat that delay) with extra smooth sustain and we're rollin' :cool:

Dann'sTheMan

06-28-2005, 07:06 AM

So I made up the cable last night, and it works sweetly. Here's a pic of the cable (http://uk.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/andrew_kydd/detail?.dir=8f46&.dnm=6c48.jpg&.src=ph), and here's a pic of my rig (http://uk.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/andrew_kydd/detail?.dir=8f46&.dnm=72f1.jpg&.src=ph) with the my latest additions: G-Major, 3U Rack drawer (for storing bits), 6U rack case and Road Case for my trusty F-50! :)

Tommi, I know what you mean about the reverb - I think I might dedicate a footswitch to turn Reverb on and off, especially if I decide that I prefer to Tap Tempo from the front panel.

Oh by the way, with reference to re_infecta's earlier question, whilst setting up the G-Major last night, and learning about its capabilities, I found that the G-Major can indeed do *B (if your MIDI controller can send CC messages). :cool: I also suspect it can do something similar to *C when operating in stomp box mode i.e. select an amp channel & FX patch combo, then turn on/off (using CC messages) FX modules stomp box style whilst keeping the same amp channel. :)

Big smiles,

Andy.

Big smiles,

Andy.

Tommi Inkila

06-28-2005, 07:27 AM

Indeed... it can do B... good that you confirmed that. Let us know if the C-option is possible... back to work :) ... it doesn't look good to write on computer just in front of security camera :rolleyes:

Tommi Inkila

07-03-2005, 02:28 AM

Andy!

Do you happen to have approx. settings for your Clean (direct) clip... I have to record quickly some guiding tracks for our singer soon and it seems that I won't be able to mike my amp before. I'd like to save some experimenting time, because once I get into it... time passes... more time passes... yep, time.

That clips sounds great BTW :)

Dann'sTheMan

07-03-2005, 03:16 AM

Hi Tommi,

I recorded those clips on the very first evening I tried home recording in order to generate clips of the F-50 that were being requested on HCAF, and so unfortunately I didn't keep any record of the settings. :o However, as it was only a few weeks into owning my F-50, I suspect I used my early "go-to" setting for the clean channel - something like Gain 2-3 o'clock; T:2; M:11; B:2; R:9.30.

I know I used the same settings for both the direct and the clean clips, and the guitar was my Charvel strat on the neck + middle pick-up position. Hope that helps, my friend, :)

Big smiles,

Andy.

Tommi Inkila

07-04-2005, 12:57 PM

Originally posted by Dann'sTheMan
Hope that helps, my friend, :)

Big smiles,

Andy.
Thanks my friend! :)

I happened to have almost the same settings on my live setup (a little bit more middle and slightly less bass) so I went with those and it worked out great... I'm actually considering to use direct for my cleans on the album. It gives much more controlled bass sound... and on the other hand that bass fullness that comes from miking may just be the final tweak that makes everything... :cool:

Now I just have to learn to play this song smoothly... oh, why did I compose this in Bb and F... it's full of awkward barrechords. :rolleyes:

presa_tito

07-05-2005, 02:11 AM

I just bought an F30 over the weekend. It has a really nice colour. I was expecting it to be black and I went to check it out and it's a cool bluish grey. Anyway, it sounds exactly like all the clips I've listened to. All the clips I've heard are a really good representation of the F series. It's really responsive to picking dynamics. It can be quiet and then just thump when you give a harder pick attack. I can't think of a clean that is better, maybe equally as good, but not better. I still need to mess with it a lot more.

Tommi Inkila

07-05-2005, 09:41 AM

Welcome to the club! :)

Post us some clips and pics if you can. I'm also very fond of F30 and it's very dynamic indeed... I find it more dynamic than F50. I believe that comes from different power tubes.

Dann'sTheMan

07-05-2005, 10:29 AM

Welcome to the brotherhood, presa_tito :)

Your F-30 sounds sweet - you must post some piccies, I'd love to see. All of the F-series are extremely touch-sensitive, and the F-30 has Mesa's Dynawatt circuitry for added dynamics. :cool:

Did you decide against the Traynor? Tell us more about the kind of music you play? :)

Big smiles,

Andy.

presa_tito

07-05-2005, 05:03 PM

Pics will be on their way shortly. I decided against the traynor due to the clean and inbetween sounds. Both are great, I just thought this suited me better. The only thing that the Mesa could do better is sound meaner. It can definitely do metal and it sounds great, but it's a smooth aggression. It has it's own sound and I like it, so it's not a big deal to me. I still love high hain marshall tones like Zakk gets.
I was curious if you guys have found people's sample settings to work well throughout the F30,50, or 100 mostly the same? Also, I think I have to come up with a little different settings from when it's opened up a bit and when I crank it.
Very impressive little amp.

presa_tito

07-05-2005, 07:55 PM

I take part of that back. I just had a chance to crank it and man does it sound good with the Huge Crunch setting in the manual. The peace sells riff sounds pretty similar to the original. It could be the BL L500XL partly.

presa_tito

07-06-2005, 08:28 PM

OK, here are the pics I just took. I've never seen anyone else with this colour. I don't know if they're making them in this colour and not black anymore.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/presa_tito/MacJune2805006.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/presa_tito/MacJune2805005.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/presa_tito/MacJune2805003.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/presa_tito/MacJune2805001.jpg

Dann'sTheMan

07-07-2005, 06:00 AM

Wow presa_tito! :)

:cool: Yours is not a standard F-30, but rather it seems to be a custom order F-30 with Zinc Taurus vinyl and Pewter grill - very cool amp. You can learn more about Mesa's custom service here: http://www.mesaboogie.com/gallery/index.html

Big smiles,

Andy.

mojowrkn

07-07-2005, 09:23 PM

Hey my F-series brethren! If you get a chance check out my band on the radio tomorrow morning (Friday 7/8/05).

We are going to be on 97.5 KMOD with DJ's Phil and Brent (Roy D. Mercer) at about 8 AM Central time in the US. You can check it out at www.kmod.com (http://www.kmod.com) .

I will be playing my F-50 head, home built 2x12, and my strat.

Wish us luck! :)

re_infecta

07-08-2005, 03:45 AM

Hello,

I'm considering buying an used Mesa/Boogie 2x12 halfback cabinet for my F-50 head. The cabinet has an original Celestion Black Shadow as the upper speaker but the seller has installed an EV's speaker as the lower speaker. The cabinet is in a good shape. How much is it worth in Europe with these speakers. Seller is asking 650 €. Is that a reasonable price? What do you think, how will this cabinet sound with F-50?

[Picture attached]

Tommi Inkila

07-08-2005, 06:51 AM

That's quite common price for that cabinet in Finland. It's pricey if you ask me. I find those Mesa cabinets somewhat bassy and besides that they're quite clumsy. I'd personally consider a cabinet with v30's... H&K has new models... don't know how much they're asking from them.

Tommi Inkila

07-08-2005, 11:39 AM

Also a new Mesa 2x12 cab costs around 800 euros... so it's not much more expensive than that used one.

Dann'sTheMan

07-08-2005, 12:07 PM

Originally posted by mojowrkn
Hey my F-series brethren! If you get a chance check out my band on the radio tomorrow morning (Friday 7/8/05).

We are going to be on 97.5 KMOD with DJ's Phil and Brent (Roy D. Mercer) at about 8 AM Central time in the US. You can check it out at www.kmod.com (http://www.kmod.com) .

I will be playing my F-50 head, home built 2x12, and my strat.

Wish us luck! :)

How cool is that! :D

I had hoped to tune in to the broadcast at work, but unfortunately I was away from my desk all day. How did it go? Do you have any clips? :)

Big smiles,

Andy.

jadedlikeme

07-08-2005, 12:25 PM

HOLY CRAP presa_tito!! I love the color of your F-30! What a nice color black.

How about some clips of the F-30!! I'm still trying to get some decent clips of the F-30 but nobody has been nice enough to do them. :[ All I wanna hear is the amp dry: clean, light gain, medium gain, and heavy gain. Is that too much to ask? *begs like a dog* Please? lol

Tommi Inkila

07-08-2005, 12:44 PM

Thanks for the pics presa_tito! Cool amp!

That really shows how the Pewter looks... I wish someone could take similar pictures from Gold grille... those pictures on Mesa site and the ones I've found with googling seems to be somewhat deceiving.

presa_tito

07-08-2005, 07:50 PM

Glad you like the look guys. A mic is the next thing coming up soon on my wish list. I was thinking about trying a few direct recorded clips, which is all I can do at the moment. I've recorded anything or learned to use recording programs yet. What cord do I need to buy? Do I plug into the soundcard and will cool edit pro 2.0 just recognize it right away?
Thanks.

re_infecta

07-09-2005, 03:05 AM

Originally posted by Tommi Inkila
That's quite common price for that cabinet in Finland. It's pricey if you ask me. I find those Mesa cabinets somewhat bassy and besides that they're quite clumsy. I'd personally consider a cabinet with v30's... H&K has new models... don't know how much they're asking from them.

I have understood that V30s run best with high sound pressures. This seems to be true at least with my Marshall Silver Jubilee played through a pair of Vintages. I need speakers that are sensitive in low volume too.

I managed to negotiate the price to 600 € and so bought the cabinet. I will report here when I have tested the cabinet with F-50.

Tommi Inkila

07-09-2005, 10:01 AM

Originally posted by re_infecta

I have understood that V30s run best with high sound pressures. This seems to be true at least with my Marshall Silver Jubilee played through a pair of Vintages. I need speakers that are sensitive in low volume too.

I managed to negotiate the price to 600 € and so bought the cabinet. I will report here when I have tested the cabinet with F-50.
In that case, if you don't like the Mesa cab check out the CC212 cab from H&K... it has two Greenbacks and therefore "fires up" at low volume levels.

mojowrkn

07-10-2005, 09:42 PM

How cool is that!

I had hoped to tune in to the broadcast at work, but unfortunately I was away from my desk all day. How did it go? Do you have any clips?

It went pretty well. There was a recording but we won't get a copy of it for a while I'm sure. My drummers wife taped it though and I heard hers today. Not too bad for a bunch of hacks :-)

If I get my hands on either recording I will try to post some clips.

Meanwhile here is a pic of the perpetrator...

presa_tito

07-11-2005, 01:38 AM

Originally posted by jadedlikeme
HOLY CRAP presa_tito!! I love the color of your F-30! What a nice color black.

How about some clips of the F-30!! I'm still trying to get some decent clips of the F-30 but nobody has been nice enough to do them. :[ All I wanna hear is the amp dry: clean, light gain, medium gain, and heavy gain. Is that too much to ask? *begs like a dog* Please? lol I havn't done any clips yet. Here's some clips you might want to listen to. These were done and posted on the Mesa forum. Hopefully he doesn't mind. These clips give a good representation of what my amp sounds like. He also used emg's I believe.
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/9/stevemccluskey_music.htm

bcjames

07-11-2005, 02:29 AM

Ive £1000 for my new amp, and I think its going to be a Mesa. Id love a Lonestar, but I played my tutors F50 the other day and wow, it really suprised me how many sounds it could do!

So, I see F50 Widebody for £1075, and the F30 for £905. Hopefully ill get a chance to play them both when I go to pick a Gibson, but before then, what are the main differences, aside tubes and output? Is the F50 worth breaking my 1k budget for? :p

If it makes any difference just between the 2 amps, I play all kinds of music, so clean and highish gain lead are good to have, but most of my own playing is done through a medium gain setting, or the clean gain cranked up.

Thanks in advance,

James

presa_tito

07-11-2005, 03:05 AM

I really didn't notice much difference between the two. Maybe if you're really focused you could hear something. I think it comes down to your power needs. I wanted the 30 due to it being better for house playing at lower volumes and cheaper. If you need the power, then the 50 is the way to go. If not, then I would say the 30. The 30 is still a beast itself and it gets really loud. The clean channel probably has most of the difference due to the tubes in each.

bcjames

07-11-2005, 03:55 AM

I think a 50 may be over kill. The biggest places I play are halls about 50X50X20, and the DSL50 I use never gets really pushed.

I can always hook up a 412 if I need a bit more punch :p

markmann

07-11-2005, 07:24 AM

Originally posted by presa_tito
I really didn't notice much difference between the two. Maybe if you're really focused you could hear something. I think it comes down to your power needs. I wanted the 30 due to it being better for house playing at lower volumes and cheaper. If you need the power, then the 50 is the way to go. If not, then I would say the 30. The 30 is still a beast itself and it gets really loud. The clean channel probably has most of the difference due to the tubes in each. I've played a F-30 on quite a few occasions and I own the F-50. To me the 30 is a bit darker sounding than the 50 and the main difference on the green channel is less clean headroom. I play lots of clean and that was the biggest reason I chose the 50. The differences between the two are much more noticable once you play one for a while and then play the other. I could definitely live with the F-30 and would not knock it, just make sure you play both models enough to make the right choice. You can tame the volume on the 50 so don't worry about that if it's an issue.

Mark

jadedlikeme

07-11-2005, 09:29 AM

Originally posted by presa_tito
I havn't done any clips yet. Here's some clips you might want to listen to. These were done and posted on the Mesa forum. Hopefully he doesn't mind. These clips give a good representation of what my amp sounds like. He also used emg's I believe.
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/9/stevemccluskey_music.htm

On the dry clips the soloing sounds fine but the rhythm section sounds very rough and buzzy. Maybe it's his G12T75 speakers. I've never liked those things. Or could it be that is the "voicing of this amp"??

phyrexia

07-15-2005, 11:21 AM

My band took a vacation of sorts last month, and until yesterday it had been a month since romping on the F50.

Man, I still love this amp. One E chord and I had my fix, and then I got to play four more hours :D

One thing I noticed, though: with earplugs (which is a must in our practice room) the amp sounds GREAT but without the earplugs, the high end is just...piercing.

Is this just because of the volume levels I'm dealing with? The MV on the lead channel was only at 10:30 or so, not insane levels, but still keeping up with a Bass 400+ and a drummer who beats the hell out of his kit.

This concerns me because next week we are going to a studio to "lay down some tracks" and I am already starting to worry about tone. Even with the treble knob all the way down it is still really cutting.

Has anyone experienced this issue? Would an EQ in the loop help out? Maybe when we get in the studio it won't be an issue but I would like to be prepared anyway.

BTW the speaker cab was a horizontal recto 2x12 with Vintage 30s. It's about to be replaced with a vertical recto 2x12.

Thanks all,
Victor

Tommi Inkila

07-15-2005, 12:09 PM

Hello Phyrexia!

The high end can be described as piercing on loud levels, I agree with that.

Pros

1. common mics used for miking the cab (SM57) don't capture that pierciness, more likely they make the presence of the sound. My treble is set around 1:00
2. that makes (and the mids) the sound cut in live situation.

Cons

1. without earplugs... well, we've all experienced that (common problem on every tube amp)
2. if some of the listeners in live situation happens to be in front of the cab or combo, he/she might have unpleasant time

I personally chose straight cabinet so that the sound don't project straight into my ear. I also tweak my sounds by walking few feets away to the side of the cab, play, go back to my head, tweak some and repeat.

Hopefully you find some useful ideas on this post :)

musicdog400

07-15-2005, 12:21 PM

This may sound funny but I prefer the sound of the F-50 thru my Weber Mass, since it takes off a bit of the high end.

<slight rant>
This is my overall fav amp by a long shot. But it seems like they went out of their way to prevent you from taming the high end. I mean the tone stack is pre-distortion, so you figure, no problem, just put an EQ in the loop. But no, the loop is not serial, it is parallel. No problem just dial out the original signal. But no, it won't let you dial %100 wet.
</slight rant>

To be fair, the mod to make the loop serial looks pretty easy, and in practice the EQ seems to work ok when the loop is dialed 90% wet.

Tommi Inkila

07-15-2005, 12:57 PM

Forgot to mention that different pre-amp tubes such as JJ on V1 tames the high-end a little bit... if you go to extremes I've found that Planet Waves cables has healthy sound with less high end :)

krazeexharhar

07-16-2005, 03:06 AM

Hey guys, I just got a new Mesa F-100 Head and I'm on a Carvin 4x12. I was just wondering...I use the 60 watt cut a lot since I don't need as much volume for church music, but I still want a "fatter" sound...when I use the regular drive channel without contour I can't seem to get enough tone out of it and is a little bit lifeless. I'm on a Gibson SG so I don't think its the guitar...any suggestions?

Oh yeah, I also have a Keeley Modded tube screamer...where woudl I set this up in the signal chain and what do you think is the best way to use it? (i.e. boost for overdriven, or make clean sound fatter, or maybe put it before the guitar input so that you have like an extra "preamp stage")?

musicdog400

07-16-2005, 02:47 PM

Try putting an EQ in the loop (and dial the loop to 90% wet) , or maybe one before the input, to fatten up the sound.

I am not familiar with your version of tube screamer, but I do use a Digitech Tone Driver. My experience with these pedals is that they take away a little low end, so they probably would not fatten up the sound for me.

I can actually setup the clean channel, with the Tone Driver and an EQ pedal, to sound almost identical to the drive channel , with a light warm fat distortion. They sound almost the same, but the Mesa drive channel 'feels' much better than the pedal.

You asked about signal chain - I always use the Tone Driver before the input, I have never tried it in the loop.

phyrexia

07-16-2005, 03:07 PM

I have my Green Machine in the middle of my effects chain. I have the gain all the way down which just boosts the signal a tad. I have found that you can use a tube screamer with these amps a couple of ways.

- Clean channel, with a slight boost
- Clean channel, with the drive turned up, for a more overdriven effect
- Clean channel with the gain on the amp up and the drive on the pedal up and you can get some pretty raunchy distortion
- Drive channel with very low gain, which can be used as crunchy/dirty rhythm stuff, and the pedal with low to medium drive to boost it for leads or more high-gain distortion
- Drive channel with higher gain, pedal with low drive and low tone, to tighten the sound up

I have gone back and forth but now I use it as a clean boost. I am thinking about using it to boost a Big Muff to see what kind of sound I can't get out of the thing.

Victor

edit: Oh, and I have considered turning the gain on the drive channel all the way down, turning the master to 4:00 or 5:00 (almost all the way up)...this gives you this nice thick sounding crunch (with humbuckers, anyway). I want to try the tube screamer on top of that to see how it sounds.

Dann'sTheMan

07-17-2005, 03:57 AM

Originally posted by krazeexharhar
Hey guys, I just got a new Mesa F-100 Head and I'm on a Carvin 4x12. I was just wondering...I use the 60 watt cut a lot since I don't need as much volume for church music, but I still want a "fatter" sound...when I use the regular drive channel without contour I can't seem to get enough tone out of it and is a little bit lifeless. I'm on a Gibson SG so I don't think its the guitar...any suggestions?

Oh yeah, I also have a Keeley Modded tube screamer...where woudl I set this up in the signal chain and what do you think is the best way to use it? (i.e. boost for overdriven, or make clean sound fatter, or maybe put it before the guitar input so that you have like an extra "preamp stage")?

Hi krazeexharhar,

Where do you have the Master Volume set? The F-series only starts exhibiting its true voice with the Master Volume above 9 or 10 o'clock. Check out the earlier posts in this thread for more on this.

As you can imagine, this is really loud, however I recommend using the Volume-pedal-in-the-Loop trick. It allows great control of the fatness of the tone, and the volume level. :p I use this set up from the smallest chapels to the largest auditoriums with my F-50. :)

Big smiles,

Andy.

krazeexharhar

07-17-2005, 11:42 AM

I tried cranking the amp during last night's gig and bringing the volume back down with an EQ in the loop (boss ge-7), but for some reason I didn't really like the results. I was getting some icepick sounds out of the lead modes and countour, and I couldn't get the cleans to balance out the drive (they were always too low volume).

Anyone know anything about putting a tube screamer in front of the amp? I used to do it for my Mesa Bottle Rocket and it sounded a lot better after I did it. Also, is it okay to put delay in front of the input instead of the effects loop?

Man, it's so hard to figure this amp out, haha. It sounds different everytime I play it.

Oh yeah, and does the amp normally not have a lot of sustain? I have the gain at one or two o'clock and I don't get nearly enough sustain as with my old Bottle Rocket running through the clean channel.

MarshallTim

07-17-2005, 12:11 PM

Hey everyone, I played a Mesa F-50 head through a Mesa 212 speaker cab, and I was blown away. Today I'll go back and try the F-100. I don't have a need for a new amp, but I do have the want for one... Rather than buying one 412 speaker cab, I'd like to buy two 212s. I'm going to leave it up to you experienced F series owners to make the suggestion on what would be the best 212s to get.

phyrexia

07-17-2005, 04:16 PM

Originally posted by krazeexharhar
I tried cranking the amp during last night's gig and bringing the volume back down with an EQ in the loop (boss ge-7), but for some reason I didn't really like the results. I was getting some icepick sounds out of the lead modes and countour, and I couldn't get the cleans to balance out the drive (they were always too low volume).

Anyone know anything about putting a tube screamer in front of the amp? I used to do it for my Mesa Bottle Rocket and it sounded a lot better after I did it. Also, is it okay to put delay in front of the input instead of the effects loop?

I posted in depth about the tube screamer but maybe you misread it. When I say "green machine" I am talking about my Aramat Effects Green Machine, which is a TS808 clone. So just read that, as I think I have written a nice little bulleted list.

I think you should just turn the master volume on the clean channel up more, though, to counteract the drive channel's volume. You might have to turn the gain down. The drive channel does cut through a lot so maybe it just seems louder? At any rate there is a lot of clean headroom IMO.

No Soul

07-17-2005, 06:07 PM

Originally posted by MarshallTim
I'm going to leave it up to you experienced F series owners to make the suggestion on what would be the best 212s to get.

that all depends on what kind of music you play or what sound you are trying to go for.

MarshallTim

07-17-2005, 08:54 PM

Originally posted by No Soul

that all depends on what kind of music you play or what sound you are trying to go for.

I usually play punk or classic rock. I don't use a heavy distortion, but more of a good crunch. The 212 obviously needs to handle the F-100.

Dann'sTheMan

07-18-2005, 02:12 AM

Originally posted by krazeexharhar
I tried cranking the amp during last night's gig and bringing the volume back down with an EQ in the loop (boss ge-7), but for some reason I didn't really like the results. I was getting some icepick sounds out of the lead modes and countour, and I couldn't get the cleans to balance out the drive (they were always too low volume).

Anyone know anything about putting a tube screamer in front of the amp? I used to do it for my Mesa Bottle Rocket and it sounded a lot better after I did it. Also, is it okay to put delay in front of the input instead of the effects loop?

Man, it's so hard to figure this amp out, haha. It sounds different everytime I play it.

Oh yeah, and does the amp normally not have a lot of sustain? I have the gain at one or two o'clock and I don't get nearly enough sustain as with my old Bottle Rocket running through the clean channel.

Hi krazeexharhar,

What are the settings that you are using (including Gain and Master Volume)?

Another thing to think about, I remember you saying that the amp was only a few months old - however do you know if it sat on the shop floor for a while prior to purchase? The sustain problem makes me wonder if your amp is in need of a re-tube?

Big smiles,

Andy.

No Soul

07-18-2005, 04:00 AM

Originally posted by MarshallTim

I usually play punk or classic rock. I don't use a heavy distortion, but more of a good crunch. The 212 obviously needs to handle the F-100.

Id recomend something w/ celestion G12t75s then, or one gt75 and one v30 is a pretty nice mix. Avatar can do one for pretty cheap.

krazeexharhar

07-18-2005, 10:56 AM

i usually have the gain around 1:00 and the master around 9:30, treble at 1:00, mids at 10:00, bass at 1:00.

how can i be sure if the retube is necessary? THe amp otherwise sounds fine and doesn't have any problems. I'm just getting some icepick sounds out of it. Could it be my speakers? I'm on a carvin v412 (i am not sure what the speakers are, the guy said it was celestion and i haven't opened it up to really check yet).

Tommi Inkila

07-18-2005, 03:45 PM

Originally posted by krazeexharhar
i usually have the gain around 1:00 and the master around 9:30, treble at 1:00, mids at 10:00, bass at 1:00.

how can i be sure if the retube is necessary? THe amp otherwise sounds fine and doesn't have any problems. I'm just getting some icepick sounds out of it. Could it be my speakers? I'm on a carvin v412 (i am not sure what the speakers are, the guy said it was celestion and i haven't opened it up to really check yet).
If you mean random squeeks with icepick sounds, they're most likely caused by one or more preamp tube that's gone bad/microphonic. Preamp tube change fixes that. Poweramp tubes may cause same kind of problems, but that's rare. Loss of output volume is the most common sign of old poweramp tubes (and the glow of the tubes can be abnormal).

Dann'sTheMan

07-18-2005, 04:01 PM

Originally posted by krazeexharhar
i usually have the gain around 1:00 and the master around 9:30, treble at 1:00, mids at 10:00, bass at 1:00.

how can i be sure if the retube is necessary? THe amp otherwise sounds fine and doesn't have any problems. I'm just getting some icepick sounds out of it. Could it be my speakers? I'm on a carvin v412 (i am not sure what the speakers are, the guy said it was celestion and i haven't opened it up to really check yet).

Hi krazeexharhar,

Sustain problems may be a sign of dying tubes. I very quickly did this recording using your amp settings and my Charvel Strat (JB Jnr. in the bridge), so the guitar has average sustain (less than my PRS for example). Does your amp sustain significantly differently to this:

http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/dannstheman/music/SustainTest.mp3

Big smiles,

Andy.

krazeexharhar

07-18-2005, 04:30 PM

Hmm...it's not all that different actually. I guess I was expecting more gain in the one o'clock position. There's a marker on the knob that says 'max gain' or something like that...but its at the 3 o'clock position...why it's there I don't quite understand. if you crank the knob all the way to the six o'clock position is that a reasonably usable amount of gain for say, metal lead tones? I'm talking about the non-contour lead mode. Or will I be using contour exclusively?

Yeah, if someone can explain how much gain there is on the amp and what's the best way to get a lot of sustain it'd be great. Does the contour mode double the gain or something?

I guess I'm being a little picky because I want the note clarity but it'd be nice to have the extra sustain, too. I considered using a Keeley ts-9 to push the front end of the amp but when i tried it the pedal changed the tone a LOT.

Dann'sTheMan

07-18-2005, 04:42 PM

Well it could very well be tube wear - as my tubes are now a couple of years old, and I think the amp's sustain is less than it used to be. I'm definitely overdue for a retube. :p

Big smiles,

Andy.

matrixman_397

07-18-2005, 05:22 PM

Hey guys, i'v just come back from New York and purchased a F50 which i brought it back with me. Now i'm wondering what the best way to power it is? Would a step down transformer be suitable or would it be better changing the internal power supply to a UK compatible one?

Please advise! :confused:

Dann'sTheMan

07-18-2005, 05:46 PM

Originally posted by matrixman_397
Hey guys, i'v just come back from New York and purchased a F50 which i brought it back with me. Now i'm wondering what the best way to power it is? Would a step down transformer be suitable or would it be better changing the internal power supply to a UK compatible one?

Please advise! :confused:

I'd suggest PMing yourguitarhero. He brought back a US Mesa F-50, and is using a appropriately powerful step-down transformer. He's also looked into replacement trannies, so he has all the info. :cool:

Big smiles,

Andy.

matrixman_397

07-19-2005, 07:46 AM

Originally posted by Dann'sTheMan

I'd suggest PMing yourguitarhero. He brought back a US Mesa F-50, and is using a appropriately powerful step-down transformer. He's also looked into replacement trannies, so he has all the info. :cool:

Big smiles,

Andy.

Thanks mate, will do just that! ;)

mojowrkn

07-19-2005, 12:17 PM

Anyone using an attenuator with their F-series? I am thinking about picking one up to use with my F-50 head.

The Weber Mini-Mass 50 Watt sure fits the bill in the $ category. Anyone tried one with their F-Series?

I have tried a volume pedal in the loop. Doesn't really seem to do it for me.

No Soul

07-20-2005, 05:15 AM

say howcome the vast majority of you guys are all 30 and 50 owners, with very few hundreds? Whats the deal here? Voicing preference, power needs, pricing? ? ?

boonhogganbeck

07-20-2005, 05:30 AM

For me, I went with the 50 due to the power factor. The 100 is just overkill for my purposes. For a 50 watt amp the F-50 is pretty damn loud. In fact, I'm thinking of buying a Hotplate.

markmann

07-20-2005, 08:16 AM

Originally posted by mojowrkn
Anyone using an attenuator with their F-series? I am thinking about picking one up to use with my F-50 head.

The Weber Mini-Mass 50 Watt sure fits the bill in the $ category. Anyone tried one with their F-Series?

I have tried a volume pedal in the loop. Doesn't really seem to do it for me. If you look back through this massive thread you'll find some discussion about using an attenuator with the F series. I believe HAL9000 uses a THD Hotplate. Also, early in the thread I talked about a volume control devise that I made to be used in the loop that is cheap and works similar to a volume pedal. I am currently using a multi-effect unit to attenuate volume in the loop via the output control. FYI, if you keep the master on your F above 9:00 the method of using a standard volume reducing device in the loop works well... to a point. You can't get to bedroom volumes with out losing sound quality but you can definitely get below a volume that causes damage to hearing.

markmann

07-20-2005, 08:26 AM

Originally posted by No Soul
say howcome the vast majority of you guys are all 30 and 50 owners, with very few hundreds? Whats the deal here? Voicing preference, power needs, pricing? ? ? The F30 would have been plenty loud for me but I liked the voicing and clean headroom of the 50 better. I can't think of one situation where I would ever need more volume than the F50 provides because it is VERY loud.

krazeexharhar

07-20-2005, 11:11 AM

Haha, I went f-100 because some guy was willing to sell me the head for 700 dollars one month old. There is a sixty watt cut too so it's not so bad...i hardly ever use the 100 watt mode.

Dann'sTheMan

07-20-2005, 11:26 AM

My decision was almost purely tone driven. I personally loved the spank of the 6L6 driven F-50 and F-100, as well as the big amp sound from the widebody combo format, so it came down to those two. :)

I say "almost", because I couldn't separate the two tonally after that - splitting hairs, I slightly preferred the clean sound of the F-100 and slightly preferred the drive sounds of the F-50. In the end, I tried to lift the F-100 combo, and that made my decision for me. :p

Big smiles,

Andy.

jrc6

07-20-2005, 11:45 AM

krazeexharhar,

It may be your speakers. If you don't need a 4 x 12, try going to a 2 x 12 or a 1 x 12. It is very difficult to push all four speakers, especially if you have vintage 30's. At low volumes, the vintage 30 has a "mid spike," character that is often described as "piercing." Once you push those speakers, that evens out, and you get nice amount of midrange.

If you have one or two vintage 30's, i.e. 1 x 12 or 2 x 12; then it is easier to up the master volume to 11:30, and push the speakers. You will notice the tone even out, and rid the spikey nature of low master volumes & vintage 30's.

Mesa cabs are great for a darker quality sound. They are oversized, and will create more bottom. This tames the highs. Also, your speakers may not have been broken in. I had a mesa 2 x 12 which had the spikey character, which eventually went away with time & loud volumes. Remember to use ear plugs with high spl's!

Alternatively, you might want to try some ceramic pickups. They have more mid range. Try a mahagony guitar, or higher gauge strings.

try switching the pre amp tubes. Any chines manufactured tube will ease the high end. They tend to sound darker than the european made tubes. This goes for the power tubes as well.

hope this helps

No Soul

07-21-2005, 04:59 AM

Originally posted by markmann
The F30 would have been plenty loud for me but I liked the voicing and clean headroom of the 50 better. I can't think of one situation where I would ever need more volume than the F50 provides because it is VERY loud.

Well the F-100 is barely louder, youre just getting more headroom, which I like a lot for the clean ch.

Im not an el84 guy, but Id probably be just as happy w/ an F50, Id be even happier about spending much less to retube it.

markmann

07-21-2005, 05:35 AM

Good point. Definitely, initial price, weight and tube maintenance are all important factors to consider. My earlier post was based soley on tone and volume.

One more factor is physical size. I have the head version of the F and since the F-30 is the smallest I was really interested in that amp. I ended up buy the 50 because of the tone and clean headroom.

Dann'sTheMan

07-24-2005, 05:25 PM

Hi Friends,

I've mentioned recently that I recognised the need for a retube, so I bit the bullet last Thursday and ordered some from http://www.watfordvalves.com/.

I went for a pair of 6L6 power tubes - the primary reason for my purchase, as my old (stock) ones were over two years old. I also ordered a couple of pre-amp tubes to experiment with.

The tubes arrived on the Saturday, and I got a chance to install them and quickly try them out. I ended up choosing the TAD 6L6WGC-STR '' R.C.A BLACK PLATE REPLICA'' as my new power tubes - they came highly recommended (http://www.watfordvalves.com/mainindex.htm), and were seemingly good value too. As for pre-amp tubes, as both Tommi and Lithium Zero had had some positive experiences with JJs, and as Watford liked them too, I went for a couple of JJ/Tesla ECC83S. I've currently put them in the V1 and V2 positions.

My first impression, and I haven't had time yet to really audition them, is that (as expected) the JJs have slightly less gain, slightly less treble and more mid-range girth than the stock pre-amp tubes. I've slightly tweaked my usual EQ settings to compensate (a touch more gain, and a touch more treble), and the distortion sounds particularly seem thicker with my Charvel Strat. I look forward to hearing how it all pans out when cranked to gigging levels, but initial results are very pleasing. :)

I do have a question to all of my tube knowledgeable brothers - should I expect any noticeable tonal changes by also replacing the V3 (FX loop buffers) and the V4 (Phase Splitter/Output)? The JJ/Tesla is a well regarded current production tube, but do any of you have any NOS experience with the F-series? I can see why some people get addicted to this experimentation, the subtle tonal changes from different tubes can be a fun source of tweaking. :p

Big smiles,

Andy.

jadedlikeme

07-26-2005, 10:53 AM

Had a nice fellow do some F30 clips for me and I thought I would share with you guys.

http://www.familiaguerrero.name/rj/boogief30.htm

I've noticed, (through the clips anyway) that there are similarities in the F50 & F30 tone, but there are subtle differences as well. The F30 sounds darker. The F50 sounds like it has more bass. Is it just me hearing that?

But overall I they both sound good.

VoodooChild24

07-26-2005, 11:49 AM

Hey guys, I have been hunting for a Mesa F-30 for the last month on ebay. Unfortunately, there's none....only F-30's are available most of the time. My local shop her in Norcal (Zonemusic) has and F-30 available and im thinking that if i get it...it might lack the power to go on medium sized gigs.

Here's my question:

1. Would there be a lot of difference (in terms of power/loudness) between the F-50 adn F-30?

2. How much would be the fair street price (used)for both?

Thanks a lot.

hal9000

07-26-2005, 12:08 PM

Originally posted by VoodooChild24
Hey guys, I have been hunting for a Mesa F-30 for the last month on ebay. Unfortunately, there's none....only F-30's are available most of the time. My local shop her in Norcal (Zonemusic) has and F-30 available and im thinking that if i get it...it might lack the power to go on medium sized gigs.

Here's my question:

1. Would there be a lot of difference (in terms of power/loudness) between the F-50 adn F-30?

2. How much would be the fair street price (used)for both?

Thanks a lot. How about this F-50, in silver! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7339072155&category=43374&ssPageName=WDVW&rd=1

VoodooChild24

07-26-2005, 12:11 PM

Thanks for the response Hal, Im actually looking at that right now. And it the amp looks in good condition.

DO you think $1000 is a good price for that?

hal9000

07-26-2005, 12:19 PM

Originally posted by VoodooChild24
Thanks for the response Hal, Im actually looking at that right now. And it the amp looks in good condition.

DO you think $1000 is a good price for that? Well, the Buy it now price is $899, which is $150 off list ($1049), but it has a custom silver tolex, which is an up charge so that puts is back up to list. Then, he says it only has 2 hours playing time, so according to him it’s basically new. So, provided it is in as good condition as it looks from the pic, I'd say it's a deal. I'd email the owner for some more pics though, especially up close.

Locky

07-28-2005, 06:58 PM

A little rig update for my brothers. I've recently added a closed back randall 212cx underneath my F50 combo. I now understand exactly what you all are talking about. The cab really opens up the sounds. All the tight bass and highs from the closed cab and all the mids from the open back combo cab. With this current setup the Ch2 sounds VERY marshall-ish to me, except a bit thicker and smoother. With the contour switch it sounds exactly like a properly diailed Recto. Damn I can't wait to plug in again. FYI the speakers in the cab are Celestions Seventy80's. I'm all giddy just writing this post.

In response to one of the earlier tube questions, I usually determine that my power tubes need changing when I have to crank the hell out of my clean channel to match the distortion channel volume.

phyrexia

07-29-2005, 12:19 AM

I'll have songs with an F-50 up soon, guys. Recording has gone well and I am pretty happy with how it sounds.

Dann'sTheMan

07-29-2005, 07:14 AM

Originally posted by Locky
A little rig update for my brothers. I've recently added a closed back randall 212cx underneath my F50 combo. I now understand exactly what you all are talking about. The cab really opens up the sounds. All the tight bass and highs from the closed cab and all the mids from the open back combo cab. With this current setup the Ch2 sounds VERY marshall-ish to me, except a bit thicker and smoother. With the contour switch it sounds exactly like a properly diailed Recto. Damn I can't wait to plug in again. FYI the speakers in the cab are Celestions Seventy80's. I'm all giddy just writing this post.

In response to one of the earlier tube questions, I usually determine that my power tubes need changing when I have to crank the hell out of my clean channel to match the distortion channel volume.

Locky,

It's great to see you so thrilled with your rig. I too love the sound of combining a closed back cab with the F-series combos. I'm not brave enough to lug one around with me though, so I've not invested in one ...yet! :p :D

Big smiles,

Andy.

krazeexharhar

07-30-2005, 11:29 AM

I have an F-100 Head, but over the past few days as I've gotten used to playing with it I realized that the effects loop is sucking away some of my tone (I guess being a parallel effects loop that only goes to 90 percent wet?) I have to use the effects loop for delay chorus and EQ, but I'm using a DD-20 so there's no 'mix knob' or anything like that. Is there any way to make the tone sound less brittle and thin? I tried rolling down the mix knob on the amp from 90 percent but then I can't hear my effects.

I've considered modding the loop from parallel to serial but I have no experience with that. Can someone tell me about that and if it really is worth it? I really like the tone of my F-100 but I don't like how it dies when I put effects through the loop.

hal9000

07-30-2005, 12:51 PM

Originally posted by krazeexharhar
I have an F-100 Head, but over the past few days as I've gotten used to playing with it I realized that the effects loop is sucking away some of my tone (I guess being a parallel effects loop that only goes to 90 percent wet?) I have to use the effects loop for delay chorus and EQ, but I'm using a DD-20 so there's no 'mix knob' or anything like that. Is there any way to make the tone sound less brittle and thin? I tried rolling down the mix knob on the amp from 90 percent but then I can't hear my effects.

I've considered modding the loop from parallel to serial but I have no experience with that. Can someone tell me about that and if it really is worth it? I really like the tone of my F-100 but I don't like how it dies when I put effects through the loop. One thing you can try with the delay is to set it for 100% wet effect (possibly a level knob), then dial back the loop to around 50% or so. You should have much better tone that way.

phyrexia

07-30-2005, 01:13 PM

Yeah, put your DD-20's effect level to full.

imott

07-30-2005, 02:22 PM

I think he said his DD20 has no mix control.

Do the serial mod, I'll PM me your email address and I'll send you the PDF Mesa sent me.

phyrexia

07-30-2005, 02:30 PM

I have a DD-20 sitting in front of me and it has an "E. LEVEL" knob.

Have you tried using the DD in front of your amp? That's what I do.

krazeexharhar

07-30-2005, 05:24 PM

Does that mean I have to redo all the presets for my DD-20? the other issue is, even when I don't have the pedal on there's still some tone sucking going on. Is that because the loop isn't serial?

hal9000

08-01-2005, 06:12 AM

Originally posted by krazeexharhar
Does that mean I have to redo all the presets for my DD-20? the other issue is, even when I don't have the pedal on there's still some tone sucking going on. Is that because the loop isn't serial? Well, I reckon you would have to change all the presets, unfortunately. The idea with a parallel loop is to maintain good tone by mixing in an FX signal with the main signal. Since the loop is relatively high voltage (+4 dBu line level) and you're using a stomp box digital delay you're probably going to be overdriving the input somewhat, have mismatched impedance, and are limiting the resulting frequency response (all sucking tone and dynamics). There are a couple of ways to fix this, of which I’ll offer two, 1) Run the "E. Level" knob up to max, and lower the mix control on the parallel loop. 2) Get a line level multi-FX device (G-Major).

IMO, a well mixed parallel FX loop will give you more of a wet/dry type of sound with most of your dynamics and tone intact than a fully serial loop.

mrelusive

08-05-2005, 03:19 PM

hey guys!

first off, excellent thread you got goin on here. I searched long and hard for an tube head i liked, and ended up with the-f-50. After listening to the sound clips here and messin with one in the store, i snagged one offa ebay from a guitar center in monroeville, PA.

Then it got here and i hated it. I have absolutely no amp experience beyond solid state combo amps. I spent all my money on the head, so i have no cab. I set up the head in my guitar / computer room and plugged headphones in the headphone jack (first mistake, but an innocent one) sounded nasty, like i had both humbuckers on with the tone knobs rolled all the way back, really fuzzy and too lower-midrangey... elephant-esque, if you will. "Maybe it's just the headphone out," i say to myself...

so i go to the local guitar shop (who never has anything tube unles it's a trade-in) and play my head through a peavey xxl cab. (mistake #2, but i'm learning). Still sounds crappy. I'm irritated as hell, so i put on some Queen really loud all the way home and belt out some "fat bottom girls" with my boy Fred Mercury.

Today i drive "an hour point five" to guitar center. Play through a mesa rectifier 4x12. Sounds totally different. I'm saved, it's not the head. I A/B it with their F-50 they got hangin out. Mine sounds shittier, so i go pick up some STR 440s from the friendlier guitar shop down the road and play through some cabs there without re-tubin it.

For some reason the purple cab sounded better. I have no clue why and it was probably my imagination or where i was standing.

Now i'm back home. F-50 head, new power tubes, NO CAB.

This is where you guys come in. I know NOTHING about cabs, but i know i want to get near that warm full, clearly defined sound i've been hearin from these clips. Vintage 30s seem to be the consensus, but how much of the tone comes from cab construction? If i got madison 4x12 and put vintage 30s in it, it would run me around $600, shipping and all. A mesa rectifier cab is like $849....

I play big-chord hard rock, I guess you could place it somewhere around Hum, Chevelle, Fuel, Queens of the Stone Age, etc. But i like the definition that michael romeo of Symphony X gets, and i like the prog metal tones a LOT. I mean prog-METAL like evergrey, symphony x, etc. not that wussy k-mart dream theater stuff.

so help!! and if not, thanks for helpin a guy choose an amp.

mrelusive

08-05-2005, 03:22 PM

oh yeah, forgot.

i'm using a Yamaha SBG700s; solid mahogany body, set neck, with two Alnico Vs in it and coil taps. Tuning is anywhere from dropped B to standard E, depending on which band i'm playin with. I've been using standard D for my recent/current stuff. I should probably get better pickups, but that's down the road a bit.

phyrexia

08-05-2005, 08:29 PM

Unless you really want a 4x12, I would suggest the Rectifier 2x12 cab by Mesa. It sounds great with my head.

mrelusive

08-07-2005, 08:16 AM

The 4x12s just always seemed to have that fuller tone i'm lookin for. My buddy's sellin his Hughes & Kettner cab with celestion rockpro jrs. in it.... but i'm not sure how that'd sound. Thought about lookin for an old rivera cab or something.

what would be the difference between building my own cab (i have friends who know how to do that stuff, just would need port sizes and all that) and puttin speakers in it, buyin a shitty cab and reloading it with new speakers, or buyin an already made cab?

orrrr..... would i be able to turn my randall 2x12 combo amp into a cab for a little while until i get an actual cab?

hal9000

08-07-2005, 01:20 PM

Originally posted by mrelusive
The 4x12s just always seemed to have that fuller tone i'm lookin for. My buddy's sellin his Hughes & Kettner cab with celestion rockpro jrs. in it.... but i'm not sure how that'd sound. Thought about lookin for an old rivera cab or something.

what would be the difference between building my own cab (i have friends who know how to do that stuff, just would need port sizes and all that) and puttin speakers in it, buyin a shitty cab and reloading it with new speakers, or buyin an already made cab?

orrrr..... would i be able to turn my randall 2x12 combo amp into a cab for a little while until i get an actual cab? mrelusive, welcome to the forum and congrats on the new amp! As for cab suggestions, I love my
Avatar (http://www.avatarspeakers.com/list%20guitar.htm) 2x12 w/ vintage 30s. It is very tight and punchy and sounds as big as some 4x12s I've heard. Plus it is light weight.

Anyway, avatar has a ton of different cab options and you really can't go wrong with a either a 2x12 or 4x12. I think this one is sweet:

Avatar 4x12 Special w/ your choice of Vintage 30s, G12T-75s, Greenbacks or G12-H30 ($437 Shipped!) (http://www.avatarspeakers.com/G412%20SPECIAL.htm)

Or, for 2x12s this is what I have:

Avatar 2x12 special w/ dual Vintage 30s ($303 Shipped!) (http://www.avatarspeakers.com/g212h%20special%20VIN%2030.htm)

Also, you can use your 2x12 combo as a cab, but you'll probably have to make your own cable unless the speakers plug into the amp independently.

mrelusive

08-07-2005, 03:54 PM

Oh hey, that's awesome. Would you suggest 4 ohm stereo or 8 ohm mono then?

also, i've read a a bunch about gettin two different sets of speakers in there like having two Celestion G12H30's on the bottom and two Celestion V30's on top to even out the tone... is that kind of stuff just a fad or does it really make a difference?

also, what are the benefits of slant cabs vs straight cabs? any big difference?

hal9000

08-08-2005, 06:22 AM

Originally posted by mrelusive
Oh hey, that's awesome. Would you suggest 4 ohm stereo or 8 ohm mono then?

also, i've read a a bunch about gettin two different sets of speakers in there like having two Celestion G12H30's on the bottom and two Celestion V30's on top to even out the tone... is that kind of stuff just a fad or does it really make a difference?

also, what are the benefits of slant cabs vs straight cabs? any big difference? I would suggest 8 Ohms mono for two reasons:

1) Your F-50 has (1) 8 Ohm and (2-parallel) 4-Ohm-Total jacks, so if you get an 8 Ohm cab and later want to upgrade to a full stack, you'll be able use (2) 8 Ohm cabs plugged into the parallel 4 Ohm jacks.
2) You can easily add additional wiring in an 8 Ohm cab to provide 4 Ohm stereo with a DPDT switch and an extra speaker jack.

As for speaker mixing; I’ve no personal experience, but from other conversations I’ve found that people like to mix V30s & G12-H30s, Greenbacks & G12-75s, etc. So, really you should post an entirely new thread asking for details as I would like to know as well. Celestion’s Tone Selector (http://professional.celestion.com/guitar/features/tone/index.html) has some interesting comparison clips of the different speakers and spec’s on their frequency response which might give you an indication of what to expect.

hal9000

08-08-2005, 07:11 AM

In light of krazeexharhar’s interest in running delays, I thought I'd try my DigiDelay in my F-100's loop again. I'm happy to say that after a bit of tweaking, it sounded really good. I set up the delay for 100% wet mix, and the loop for about 50% mix and that was the best tone. Of course, I only use delay out front for clean sounds and I really can't be bothered to run another 30 ft. of wire to the pedal board, but for anyone interested, I really like the DigiDelay. Also, the 4 second sampling mode is awesome for sound check. I record a rhythm loop, put down the guitar and walk out front. Yeah, most people freak a bit at hearing the guitar without me playing, but that's part of the fun :). In general, I use the analog delay sim for most of my songs, but the ModDelay, which is a stereo chorus and delay sounds really good for my darker clean songs. Also, the DigiDelay has a nice tap tempo feature which is easy to use (Once the unit is on, hold down the switch for 2 seconds and tap away). The only negative I have with the pedal is that it eats batteries like a kid in a candy store, so run it off a DC supply (Boss type). So, for anyone considering a stomp box delay I highly recommend the DigiDelay ($99).

http://images.misupply.com/products/full/Digitech/Digi_Delay_Top.jpg

BTW, for my favorite Hendrix impression, I run this pedal into both my F-100 and my singer's TSL 100 set for ping-pong stereo delay. Since it is out front, it puts a real lo-fi sheen on the overdrive channels. Then I crank up both amps and bust out the Star Spangled Banner, which is my go to solo song if the rest of the band train-wrecks. Luckily, we've never train-wrecked a song, but it's there if I need it. :D

1_big swifty

08-09-2005, 10:30 PM

.. for the lounge.

Thanks for the thread and the info folks. Just bought my F-50 this week. Obviously a TONEMONSTER.

For those interested in SERIOUS SUSTAIN y BALLS DELUXE sounds at rational volume: 1. what dist. pedals are not noisy and get good sounds

2. What's the best place/brand to get a power soak?

markmann

08-10-2005, 05:53 AM

Swifty,

Congrat's on the new amp... enjoy.

In answer to your questions I think that all distortion pedal are inherantly noisy to some degree, at least the ones that I've had and I've owned all the popular ones at some point. The more distortion you crank in the more noise is introduced. I can't say that any one was more noisy than another but maybe someone else has more experience. At the moment I think that the F-50 produces better OD than any of the pedals I've used lately so I use the red channel for my main OD. For a more outragious high gain dist tone I use an old Arion pedal I've had since the mid 80's. I've never heard any other pedal do what this one can

I just bought a THD Hotplate off flea-Bay but I haven't had a chance to test it yet so I'll let you know how that goes. I've read a few reviews and many posts about attenuators and it seems that the hotplate is most recommended... we'll see if it lives up to the hype.

Dann'sTheMan

08-10-2005, 06:22 AM

Hi 1_big swifty,

Welcome to HCAF and to the F-series brotherhood. I hope you have as much fun here and with your amp as I do. :)

Regarding your questions - I use the "volume-pedal-in-the-loop" trick to get my tone and sustain at rationale volume levels - you can read about it earlier in the thread, and you should be able to try this out using an FX unit/stomp box with Output level control. As a consequence, I don't use a power attenuator, but the THD Hotplate certainly seems to be well respected.

I am currently having a lot of fun using my vintage MXR Dynacomp as a clean boost. It doesn't introduce a huge amount of noise, and allows the pre-amp to be hit harder, allowing a wider range of breaking up and low-medium gain sounds. Being a compressor, you can also tweak the sustain to taste. :cool:

What kind of music do you play, 1_big swifty?

Big smiles,

Andy.

mrelusive

08-10-2005, 07:02 PM

here's one for the metal guys here. What kinda gear are you using to get good metal / hard rock tones outta this puppy? I know they're in there somewhere... but i'm still in the process of getting a cab so i can't really find em out for myself. I'm not primarily a metal guy myself, but i always use that heavy distortion as a staring point for finding a good tone for whatever project i got going.

I'm talkin clear distortion, not the overly muddy stuff or the thinned-out pantera stuff. For lack of better examples... megadeth, linkin park, chevelle, breaking benjamin, etc. Those are tones i've generally liked from listening to my girlfriend's CD collection in her car.

what pickups / cabs / speakers are you using? any boost pedals or whatnot?

I haven't decided on my final cab yet, and i'm debatin the pickup situation. I've heard the EMG 81 / 85 combo works well for the bridge / neck in an all-mahogany guitar... but i don't wanna jump on the zakk wylde bullseye bandwagon just yet...

Locky

08-11-2005, 07:39 PM

Well I ordered a high gain tube kit from eurotubes, I'll report back how they work out. Cheers

mrelusive

08-12-2005, 11:00 AM

Dude from the HCAF is sellin this one (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7342763901) on ebay...

should i go for it?

Dann'sTheMan

08-13-2005, 02:05 AM

Originally posted by mrelusive
Dude from the HCAF is sellin this one (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7342763901) on ebay...

should i go for it?

Hi mrelusive,

It seems like a nice cab, and the X pattern of speakers in a 4x12 has many fans. I remember a spate of threads about 18 months ago when lots of forumites were setting up their cabs in this way, and swapping speakers etc.

I think my only concern would be the painted cab - but that's a personal preference. I personally prefer the look of tolex, especially as I think a painted cab can look tatty quite quickly. If it doesn't bother you, then you simply have to decide if you're happy with the price. :p

Good luck deciding! :)

Big smiles,

Andy.

yourguitarhero

08-13-2005, 03:15 AM

For cabinets, I've used a Matamp 1x12" with a Vintage 30, a Mesa 3/4 back 1x12" with a Mesa C90 (Celestion Custom Lead 80?) and an old Marshall 4x12" with the old greenbacks in it.

To be honest, all of them sounded excellent with the amp. The Mesa cab worked well and is best for sound vs portability, and looks nice with the amp.

I have heard it with a Marshall 1960 cab with G-75s, and it wasn't quite as nice - I'd try and stay away from them - go for the greenbacks if you want a 4x12".

ASIDE:

I got my F-50 repaired recently, I'd been having problems with it for a 6 months and was getting well pissed off, it was 'motorboating' when set near a cab (on top of it, next to one). Motorboating is when the sound cuts in and out like a real fast tremelo, but not in a nice way, and seemed to lose power.

Turned out one of the metal sleeves inside V2 preamp valve base had been squashed and the pin was going down between the sleeve and the edge of the plastic base. When the amp vibrated, the pin would lose contact witht he metal and the preamp would cut out for a wee second.

But anyway, it's fixed now and seems to be sounding better than ever.

+1 on JJ valves too - the Mesa tech said it was the best sounding F-50 he'd ever heard.

While my amp was broke (well, I could gig with it, but had little confidence) I bought a 5150 head and planned to sell the F-50. But once I got both of them set up, the F-50 owned the 5150 - cleans were a world apart, and the Mesa's dirt was just meatier. Still haven't tried them in a band setting yet - the only thing I've worried about the F-50 is that my leads get lost in the mix. I have just got a Boss EQ though, so will run that in the loop for solo boost and some extra mids when it's time to solo!

Peace out bros, the F-50 rocks.

geckomecca

08-14-2005, 11:18 PM

Hello Friends:

Hope I can post a pic of my F-50. Had it for 6 months, and its gettin' better every time I plug in.

Thanks to Dann's The Man for pointin' me in the right direction.

Played a gig at Corrola - Outer Banks, NC this week -salt & sand couldn't hold my Mesa down...it rocked.......clean & crunchy, sweet
and sultry. The thing responded to everything I gave it.

My set up includes a Digitech Delay and a Banzai Cold Fusion for a sweet clean boost . Hal9000...(hope I've got it right, I, too, only like delay with clean.)

Rock on Dear Brothers!!!

-Gecko:)

Dann'sTheMan

08-16-2005, 02:52 AM

Originally posted by yourguitarhero
For cabinets, I've used a Matamp 1x12" with a Vintage 30, a Mesa 3/4 back 1x12" with a Mesa C90 (Celestion Custom Lead 80?) and an old Marshall 4x12" with the old greenbacks in it.

To be honest, all of them sounded excellent with the amp. The Mesa cab worked well and is best for sound vs portability, and looks nice with the amp.

I have heard it with a Marshall 1960 cab with G-75s, and it wasn't quite as nice - I'd try and stay away from them - go for the greenbacks if you want a 4x12".

ASIDE:

I got my F-50 repaired recently, I'd been having problems with it for a 6 months and was getting well pissed off, it was 'motorboating' when set near a cab (on top of it, next to one). Motorboating is when the sound cuts in and out like a real fast tremelo, but not in a nice way, and seemed to lose power.

Turned out one of the metal sleeves inside V2 preamp valve base had been squashed and the pin was going down between the sleeve and the edge of the plastic base. When the amp vibrated, the pin would lose contact witht he metal and the preamp would cut out for a wee second.

But anyway, it's fixed now and seems to be sounding better than ever.

+1 on JJ valves too - the Mesa tech said it was the best sounding F-50 he'd ever heard.

While my amp was broke (well, I could gig with it, but had little confidence) I bought a 5150 head and planned to sell the F-50. But once I got both of them set up, the F-50 owned the 5150 - cleans were a world apart, and the Mesa's dirt was just meatier. Still haven't tried them in a band setting yet - the only thing I've worried about the F-50 is that my leads get lost in the mix. I have just got a Boss EQ though, so will run that in the loop for solo boost and some extra mids when it's time to solo!

Peace out bros, the F-50 rocks.

Hi yourguitarhero,

Great update - thank you! :cool: How does your Matamp 1x12 compare with the Mesa 1x12?

Interesting aside too about the pre-amp valve sockets. When I put a couple of JJs in mine recently, I noticed that the V2 tube wasn't seating properly upon replacement. I eventually pulled it out and looked at the socket and noticed that when I was aligning the pins, the tube hadn't been correctly positioned so one of the pins had gone down the wrong side of the socket's contact. I bent the contact back into place, and the tube finally went in flush. This must be especially easy to do if trying to replace the V1 and V2 preamp tubes when the chassis is in place, as they are hidden behind the transformer. I recommend removing the chassis before experimenting with the V1 and V2 pre-amp tubes. :)

What JJ tubes do you have in your amp? I currently have two ECC83S preamp tubes in V1 and V2,

Big smiles,

Andy.

Dann'sTheMan

08-16-2005, 03:24 AM

Originally posted by geckomecca
Hello Friends:

Hope I can post a pic of my F-50. Had it for 6 months, and its gettin' better every time I plug in.

Thanks to Dann's The Man for pointin' me in the right direction.

Played a gig at Corrola - Outer Banks, NC this week -salt & sand couldn't hold my Mesa down...it rocked.......clean & crunchy, sweet
and sultry. The thing responded to everything I gave it.

My set up includes a Digitech Delay and a Banzai Cold Fusion for a sweet clean boost . Hal9000...(hope I've got it right, I, too, only like delay with clean.)

Rock on Dear Brothers!!!

-Gecko:)

Hey Gecko,

Sounds like you had a fantastic gig and are still basking in the glow! :cool: I'd love to see piccies of your amp, so please don't hesitate to share. If you've got pics of your gig, that would be cool too. :)

Regarding Delay, I never used to use it until I started posting clips here at HCAF. I noticed that alot of the clips I liked used delay on the solo tones, and so I decided to try a recommended delay setting (Delay - 350ms; Feedback - 50%; Wet Mix - 20-30%). I tried it for the first time on the From This Moment clip in my sig (Gain sound (touch of delay at mixdown)), and I loved the results. It gave the lead guitar some ambience, similar to reverb, but I prefer it.

These days, when playing live, I often use such a delay setting for solo tones - perhaps with a hint of chorus. Conversely, I tend to prefer reverb for Clean sounds when I'm looking for an ambience type effect.

In the past, I would rarely use both delay and reverb together - however since I've gotten the G-Major, this is less the case, as I've found the tone still cuts beautifully even with both these effects mixed in TC Electronics style. Lots to learn, and it's lots of fun learning! :p

Big smiles,

Andy.

markmann

08-17-2005, 05:11 AM

Originally posted by Dann'sTheMan

These days, when playing live, I often use such a delay setting for solo tones - perhaps with a hint of chorus. Conversely, I tend to prefer reverb for Clean sounds when I'm looking for an ambience type effect.

In the past, I would rarely use both delay and reverb together - however since I've gotten the G-Major, this is less the case, as I've found the tone still cuts beautifully even with both these effects mixed in TC Electronics style. Lots to learn, and it's lots of fun learning! :p

Big smiles,

Andy.
Andy, for giggles have a go with the delay settings that I use. I've never been a big fan of reverb but I almost always use mild to moderate delay to give me a wetter and deeper sound. For chording and some lead I use 290ms delay with the repeat set so that I can hear about 3 repeats as they fade away. The volume is set to noticably lower than the original signal and I detune the repeats with either chorus or the detune feature on my Intellifex. For leads my current fav setting is 410ms with single repeat and the rest of the settings are as above.

I got the idea for this after listening to some Larry Carlton where he was using some amazing effects... obviously very high end but his leads really stood out and I concluded it was at least partially due to some detuning of his delay.

mrelusive

08-17-2005, 05:10 PM

the amount of delay or reverb i use is dependent on the tempo of the song. I make my delay time 1/2 or 1/4 of the number of seconds between beats.

The simplest example i can give is that if the tempo is 60bpm in 4/4 (each beat is one second apart), i'll use either 250ms of 500ms of delay. i do the same thing for the reverb decay (if it's digital). If the tempo is half that, i double the delay time.

i think i'm sayin this right, i'm doin it from memory without my guitar sittin here... it just sounds better when you keep the tempo in mind.

Dann'sTheMan

08-17-2005, 05:54 PM

Thanks brothers for the cool tips on using delay. Tell me, markmann, do you detune just the delayed notes, or is the original note detuned as well? mrelusive, like you, my typical delay settings are often tied into the tempo.

Allow me to share the settings I use for programming delay based on cool insight I was given from the awesome forumite Warren - aka blackstratblues.

You use 2 seperate delay times for left and right. left is a 1/8th note and right is a 1/4th triplet. to calculate the 1/8th note, divide 30,000 by the tempo bpm and you have your delay time in ms. [eg 30,000/120BPM = 250ms] and to get the 1/4th triplet you multiply the left side by 1.5 [250 x 1.5 = 375ms].

A feedback of 20 - 30% should suit most applications, however set your wet dry mix while listening to the guitar in context of the song, not while the guitar track is soloed.

Let me know if you like the results. :)

Big smiles,

Andy.

markmann

08-18-2005, 05:06 AM

Originally posted by Dann'sTheMan
Thanks brothers for the cool tips on using delay. Tell me, markmann, do you detune just the delayed notes, or is the original note detuned as well? mrelusive, like you, my typical delay settings are often tied into the tempo.

Yes, I detune (lower) or chorus only the delayed notes, that's what makes the original note stand out. I only chorus the original signal when I want a chorus sound, when only the repeats are chorused it sounds like detune, at least that's the best way I can describe it. Be careful not to overdo it though else it sounds like crap. Also, I find that only with longer delays do I personally find it necessary to keep the repeats in tempo. With multiple faster repeats I treat them as reverb (basically multiple random repeats).

My last rig was stereo and I used slightly different delay times so that I could hear separation and to get 3d effects. I also used short and long repeats together but have since abandoned all such activity in favor of simpler processing which just sounds better to my ear these days. I liken this to the technique most people use when applying reverb and compression when first starting to record... if a little sounds good a lot will sound better.

I've always been an effects meister but lately I use less than I ever have.

geckomecca

08-18-2005, 11:55 PM

Originally posted by Dann'sTheMan

Hey Gecko,

Sounds like you had a fantastic gig and are still basking in the glow! :cool: I'd love to see piccies of your amp, so please don't hesitate to share. If you've got pics of your gig, that would be cool too. :)

Regarding Delay, I never used to use it until I started posting clips here at HCAF. I noticed that alot of the clips I liked used delay on the solo tones, and so I decided to try a recommended delay setting (Delay - 350ms; Feedback - 50%; Wet Mix - 20-30%). I tried it for the first time on the From This Moment clip in my sig (Gain sound (touch of delay at mixdown)), and I loved the results. It gave the lead guitar some ambience, similar to reverb, but I prefer it.

These days, when playing live, I often use such a delay setting for solo tones - perhaps with a hint of chorus. Conversely, I tend to prefer reverb for Clean sounds when I'm looking for an ambience type effect.

In the past, I would rarely use both delay and reverb together - however since I've gotten the G-Major, this is less the case, as I've found the tone still cuts beautifully even with both these effects mixed in TC Electronics style. Lots to learn, and it's lots of fun learning! :p

Big smiles,

Andy.

Hey Andy!

Thanks so much for the reply...I hope to get some pics on this site soon.....I'm a bit lazy in that respect, however, a friend of a friend took some pics of us playing and I hope to get them soon to share with all the Mesa Brothers.

So glad to read that you are experimenting more with Delay.

Also, I love chorus, but I sold / traded my chorus pedals to help finance my F-50 (along with several other peds and my beloved Jackson Fusion electric.)....NO REGRETS!

Just a little info for what it's worth. We do some Greenday covers, and I had always used a "Foxey Fuzz" to cop the Greenday tone.

This evening I "A/B"ed the Foxey (which is a great pedal) with the dirty channel of my F-50 (contour & full gain) and I actually preferred the Mesa Dirty to the Foxey Fuzz, and it seemed to be much closer to the tight, hard driven sound of Greenday.

This amp is unreal. So versatile and so loud and clear.

I have a mint, brand new Fender '59 Bassman R.I. sitting in my closet that can't touch the F-50.

O.K. now I'm startin' to ramble, so I'll say good night.

Andy, I've never met you, and at the risk of being overly "mushy"
I must tell you, you are the Man, and your thoughtful and objective reviews lead me to the amp of my dreams. I thank you for that. I feel certain that my tone search has ended...I can't imagine it getting any better than this.

I'll see if I can post pics soon. Until then Keep Rocking F Brothers!!
And thank you again Andy!

-Gecko (Bobby P.)

1_big swifty

08-19-2005, 09:07 PM

Thanks for the replies homeys..

FYI I play heavy blues & melodic hard rock.. From about Robben Ford thru ZZTop to Gary Hoey and Joe Satriani. I've been playing for over 30 years.

Which brings me to my next inquiry:

Bought a hot plate.. it is good. Leave the tone boost switches on, the F sounds pretty much like it should even down near 16 db of attenuation.

Found pretty much everything I need with the hotplate & a DS-2, BUT: I am still looking for Robben Ford/SRV tones (Bogner, Dumble I assume.. ). Are they in there (with or without the attenuator?)? The clean side doesn't seem to break up or sustain too well even with the gain cranked.. dirty side is too dirty for that stuff.

Advice or ideas?

Thx in Adv.. :cool:

Dann'sTheMan

08-20-2005, 05:40 PM

Originally posted by 1_big swifty
Thanks for the replies homeys..

FYI I play heavy blues & melodic hard rock.. From about Robben Ford thru ZZTop to Gary Hoey and Joe Satriani. I've been playing for over 30 years.

Which brings me to my next inquiry:

Bought a hot plate.. it is good. Leave the tone boost switches on, the F sounds pretty much like it should even down near 16 db of attenuation.

Found pretty much everything I need with the hotplate & a DS-2, BUT: I am still looking for Robben Ford/SRV tones (Bogner, Dumble I assume.. ). Are they in there (with or without the attenuator?)? The clean side doesn't seem to break up or sustain too well even with the gain cranked.. dirty side is too dirty for that stuff.

Advice or ideas?

Thx in Adv.. :cool:

Hi 1_big swifty,

There are lots of just breaking up tones in the F-50 on the Lead Channel (no contour), with the Gain around 9 o'clock, and the Master Volume at 12-1 o'clock. Check out the "Bluesy sound" and "Woody Clean sound" clips, as well as the various Video clips in my sig.

Try the Lead Channel (no contour) and put your Gain at 9 o'clock (including just before the Gain comes on strong), Master Volume at 1 o'clock and attenuate as necessary. :eek: Experiment with the EQ, including settings that you tend to use on the Clean channel. In this mode, the F-50 really betrays its vintage Bassman personality, and it loves being overdriven by pedals. Try using your DS-2 as a boost with the gain low, and the Output high.

Let us know how you get on. :)

Big smiles,

Andy.

1_big swifty

08-21-2005, 08:49 AM

Originally posted by Dann'sTheMan
Master Volume at 1 o'clock and attenuate as necessary. :eek:

:lol: .... attenuate as necessary... :eek: ..right.. F-50 with the master @ 1 o'clock.. need a smiley icon for the doors being blown off..

And yes, I use the DS-2 pretty much as a low level boost only. The f doesn't need heavy gain on the input. I find that high-gain pedals (like the DS-2 or Bad Monkey) set low get a MUCH better sound than low gain pedals (like the SD-1 or tube screamer) set high.

Thanks!

Here's another question, I am not getting great response with harmonics (straight or palmed) on the lead side with the gain up (very crunchy sounds). Someof them like decay out almost instantly instead of being punchy & juicy (as all hamonics should be). Is this a sign that the tubes are going south?
My F is an early narrow cab model, and I think the tubes are OEM.

Tarrant

08-21-2005, 03:48 PM

Here's a question for you F-Series guys. I'm starting to look for a new amp I've been playing a mid 90's Marshall Valvestate 232 (2x30 wats) since I started playing and it's time for me to buy a real amp after a few years and I'm all over the board as to the sounds I like and would like to get out of an amp. I've played a Dr. Z Maz-38 which floored me but I don't like to run pedals for my dirt if I don't have to which was the downside to it. A 5150 which was not pleasing to my ears at all, a Carvin legacy which is a lead contender at the moment. I play covers and originals which fall between light pop-rock like Train to punk and Hard Rock. The heaviest sounding distortion I really need is almost identical to the intro riff to the Craig's Brother song Flag down.

http://www.purevolume.com/craigsbrother/music

Is it voiced to get that type of a sound? Does it respond well to a boost in the front? I use a Boss OD-3 with the drive at 1 or less the level at 12 o'clock and the tone set there as well as it boosts dirty channels nice but on a clean channel will remain clean unless I "dig in" then i get a really early breakup sound at the neck and nice overdrive at the bridge.

hal9000

08-22-2005, 07:05 AM

Originally posted by Tarrant
<snip>I play covers and originals which fall between light pop-rock like Train to punk and Hard Rock. The heaviest sounding distortion I really need is almost identical to the intro riff to the Craig's Brother song Flag down.

http://www.purevolume.com/craigsbrother/music

Is it voiced to get that type of a sound? Does it respond well to a boost in the front?<snip>. IMO, you can get the Flag Down tone easily on the contour channel gain around 11:00. See my sig for the humbucker metal rhythm setting.

I think an F-50/100 would be perfect for your style. Do yourself a favor and audition one at your local store. If I can persuade you to take the settings in my sig, I think you'll have an easier time finding your tone with a good starting place. Also, try to get the master volume to at least 9:00, and if you can, to where it says on the setting.

phyrexia

08-22-2005, 08:55 PM

Hi guys.

Couple things: First, my band's demo is complete and it'll be uploaded soon! I am overall happy with how it turned out. I was able to get some great sounds out of the F.

Secondly: I bought a old beat up Mesa vertical 2x12. It's open back, it has a Black Shadow and a Jensen speaker in it. Last practice I was able to get the master up to 12:00. I was floored at the clean channel. I think I was getting some speaker breakup too. It was super responsive and it made this wonderful gritty sound when I romped on the guitar. Then I tubescreamed it and it was awesome! Tons of tone.

Every time I think I need/want a new guitar or amp, I play my setup and remember that I do not. It's groovy.

mrelusive

08-22-2005, 09:10 PM

Ordered my Avatar 4x12 today. Got the G412 straight cab with four Vintage 30s in it... they shipped it out today apparently, but i don't know where they're located so i'm not sure how long it'll take.

It feels like the days before christmas over here... i'm all giddy and excited and i can't wait til it gets here cuz, much like twisted sister said, i wanna rock!

ROCK!

[dunt-dunna-nunna, dunt-dunna-nunna]

i waaaant tooo rock!

ROCK!

yeah buddy.

ibo

08-23-2005, 07:29 PM

Hi everyone...I'm new to this thread...don't own a F-series yet, but I sure hope I will soon. I played the F-50 combo over the weekend and I was FLOORED. That amp is just freakin awesome...all that tone and versatility. I originally had my mind set on a DSL 50 but I simply can't afford it...and after playing the F-50, I think I'm sold...

However, I want a head unit for the flexibility of using various cabs. I checked the guitar centers where I live but there are no F-50 heads. Does anyone know where I can find one for cheap (both new and used)? Still in college, so moneys an issue. I came across this thread and realized how much the ppl here are willing to help out one another....so if possible, please help me become a proud owner of a F-50!!!...cheers!

hal9000

08-24-2005, 06:12 AM

Originally posted by ibo
Hi everyone...I'm new to this thread...don't own a F-series yet, but I sure hope I will soon. I played the F-50 combo over the weekend and I was FLOORED. That amp is just freakin awesome...all that tone and versatility. I originally had my mind set on a DSL 50 but I simply can't afford it...and after playing the F-50, I think I'm sold...

However, I want a head unit for the flexibility of using various cabs. I checked the guitar centers where I live but there are no F-50 heads. Does anyone know where I can find one for cheap (both new and used)? Still in college, so moneys an issue. I came across this thread and realized how much the ppl here are willing to help out one another....so if possible, please help me become a proud owner of a F-50!!!...cheers! welcome to the forum IBO! :)

I found an f-50 Head on eBay that has 6 days left on it: F-50 Head (http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?sofocus=bs&sbrftog=1&catref=C6&from=R10&satitle=mesa+f-50&sacat=38072%26catref%3DC6&bs=Search&sargn=-1%26saslc%3D2&sadis=200&fpos=ZIP%2FPostal&ftrt=1&ftrv=1&saprclo=&saprchi=&fsop=3%26fsoo%3D2&coaction=compare&copagenum=1&coentrypage=search&fgtp=)

tigerwoods

08-24-2005, 12:30 PM

I have a F-50 head and it sounds awesome, but it is too much amp for my tiny condo. I am selling my F-50 head. Let me know if anyone is interested. $700+ shipping.

http://img271.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc053109jl.jpg

ant

08-24-2005, 12:33 PM

Originally posted by hal9000
welcome to the forum IBO! :)

I found an f-50 Head on eBay that has 6 days left on it: F-50 Head (http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?sofocus=bs&sbrftog=1&catref=C6&from=R10&satitle=mesa+f-50&sacat=38072%26catref%3DC6&bs=Search&sargn=-1%26saslc%3D2&sadis=200&fpos=ZIP%2FPostal&ftrt=1&ftrv=1&saprclo=&saprchi=&fsop=3%26fsoo%3D2&coaction=compare&copagenum=1&coentrypage=search&fgtp=)

That's mine. I bought it off another forumite a few weeks ago. Just not doing it for me.

hal9000

08-24-2005, 01:06 PM

Originally posted by ant

That's mine. I bought it off another forumite a few weeks ago. Just not doing it for me. Have you tried the settings in my sig? What style do you play?

ant

08-24-2005, 01:38 PM

Originally posted by hal9000
Have you tried the settings in my sig? What style do you play?

Your settings were pretty close to what I was using after reading the manual. I liked everything about the amp until I got to the higher gain settings. I tend to prefer a brighter, crunchier high gain sound, and the F-50 is a little too smooth. I was able to tweak it a bit with an OD pedal as a boost, but I don't want to have to do that. Plus I don't have a bunch of guitars and cabinets to try different combos with. It's an excellent sounding amp, but just not for me. I am going back to a .50 Cal+.