Mesa F-series Lounge. Come on in and share your secrets. [Archive] - Page 11 - Harmony Central Musician Community Forums

UsrName

08-21-2006, 03:01 PM

Originally posted by fritzreiser
New F-30 owner here. I have 2 cabs for it; Earcandy 1x12 w/ Eminence Governor and an Avatar 2x12 with Celestion Classic Lead 80s. The rig in the picture will be my church rig. Very portable. Only pedal I am using right now will be a Bad Monkey as a boost for leads.

Tomorrow will be the first time for the F-30 at church after about 5 months of using a Valvetech VAC 25.

Nice rig fritz! :thu: How do you like the Sovereign cab? How is the bass response? I've been debating weather or not to get the Sovereign or a Mesa Thiele. Here's my EarCandy cab, which I think is out of production now (Vagabond 212).

http://i3.tinypic.com/vs17iq.jpg

fritzreiser

08-21-2006, 05:33 PM

Very nice cab, bro. Earcandy cabs are top notch.

I like the thump of the Sovereign, but I don't really like the Governor that much. I like the F-30 better with the Classic Lead 80s in my 2x12. Too much of a mid-hump with the Governor for me. I may replace it with a Wizard and see how that goes.

Since the topic the last coupla days has been about attenuating, has anyone tried an F-30 with an Isolation cab like the Demeter SSC-1? Or...thought about getting Power Scaling installed?
(or is Power Scaling only used on class A amps?)

Surfcaster

08-21-2006, 10:57 PM

Well, I called Mesa/Boogie this afternoon to get to the bottom of this "First 400 F50s" business. I talked to Marcus (forgot his last name). Anyway, he said the changes made to the circuit were really just changes to the circuit board itself in terms of layout and how the components were placed on the circuit board...it was a matter of improving the "fit" of the components on the board. He said there were no changes to anything that would affect the amps tone or performance or reliability and that the first 400 should sound and hold up just like the later F50s.

Anyway, all I know is that in a few weeks I will have had my F50 for 3 years and the only problem I had with it was when I banged in one of the controls and unseated one of the pots...and Mesa not only told me how to fix it, but sent out a new pot free of charge even though it was my fault. I'm even still using the original tubes. On top of that, my amp was a floor model that had been there for a while, so it had a few miles on it when I got it. So I'm guessing any issues that people have had with amps in the first 400 were isolated cases unrelated to the original circuit design.

Dann'sTheMan

08-22-2006, 02:45 AM

Originally posted by Surfcaster
Well, I called Mesa/Boogie this afternoon to get to the bottom of this "First 400 F50s" business. I talked to Marcus (forgot his last name). Anyway, he said the changes made to the circuit were really just changes to the circuit board itself in terms of layout and how the components were placed on the circuit board...it was a matter of improving the "fit" of the components on the board. He said there were no changes to anything that would affect the amps tone or performance or reliability and that the first 400 should sound and hold up just like the later F50s.

Anyway, all I know is that in a few weeks I will have had my F50 for 3 years and the only problem I had with it was when I banged in one of the controls and unseated one of the pots...and Mesa not only told me how to fix it, but sent out a new pot free of charge even though it was my fault. I'm even still using the original tubes. On top of that, my amp was a floor model that had been there for a while, so it had a few miles on it when I got it. So I'm guessing any issues that people have had with amps in the first 400 were isolated cases unrelated to the original circuit design.

Thanks for verifying the info, Surfcaster! It's good to continue to have substantiated information on this thread. I'd be interested to know if Mesa had heard of us - I'd like to think that Randall would approve of the community we've got going here. :)

Big smiles,

Andy.

Ogi-wan

08-22-2006, 02:53 AM

Did Mesa say anything about why they made the cabinet for the F-50 combo larger?

j666

08-22-2006, 03:22 AM

eh...i won't mess with the mesa thread cuz mesa fukken rooolz!

Surfcaster

08-22-2006, 09:56 AM

Originally posted by Ogi-wan
Did Mesa say anything about why they made the cabinet for the F-50 combo larger?

Unfortunately, I did not hear my cell phone ring, so he only left me a message and I didn't have a chance to ask any further questions, so no details on why the widebody.

Lt_Core

08-22-2006, 10:05 AM

Dumb question: how wide is the widebody? Are there 2 different types of the F-50? Mine was purchased new in February, 2006 at GC. Just curious how I can tell which version I have. Thanks!

hal9000

08-22-2006, 10:07 AM

Originally posted by Ogi-wan
Did Mesa say anything about why they made the cabinet for the F-50 combo larger? Widebody cabs give an amp less of the "boxy" sound that some people don't like about small combos. The Mark IV small chassis combo gets the same press about seeming boxy, while the heads are well regarded since they are usually run with a good-sized cab.

hal9000

08-22-2006, 10:10 AM

Originally posted by Lt_Core
Dumb question: how wide is the widebody? Are there 2 different types of the F-50? Mine was purchased new in February, 2006 at GC. Just curious how I can tell which version I have. Thanks! You have the new version. It is 22.5" wide according to Mesa's spec: http://www.mesaboogie.com/Product_Info/Product_Guide/ProdRef_0206.pdf

The smaller F-50 should be the same as the F-30 combo which is 18.75" wide.

rm100tubehead

08-22-2006, 10:15 AM

some might thin im tone deaf but i tried an f30 next to a cube 60 and found the cube 60 sounded better. clearer, more focused sound and better distortion too.

Lt_Core

08-22-2006, 10:21 AM

Originally posted by hal9000
You have the new version. It is 22.5" wide according to Mesa's spec: http://www.mesaboogie.com/Product_Info/Product_Guide/ProdRef_0206.pdf

The smaller F-50 should be the same as the F-30 combo which is 18.75" wide.

Thanks! You are correct.

I'm really tempted to get the Weber Mini Mass. I really want my DD-20 in the effects loop. There is an adjustable +4 db to -20 db output setting in the DD-20. Does that impact the overall level of the loop or just the delay effects?

Dann'sTheMan

08-22-2006, 10:21 AM

Originally posted by rm100tubehead
some might thin im tone deaf but i tried an f30 next to a cube 60 and found the cube 60 sounded better. clearer, more focused sound and better distortion too.

If your ears tell you that you've found the tone you desire, then that's what counts. If you happen to save some cash at the same time, then that's a bonus. This is what happened to me when I chose the F-50 over the MkIV for example. Best wishes in your search for tone! :thu:

Big smiles,

Andy.

hal9000

08-22-2006, 10:38 AM

Originally posted by rm100tubehead
some might thin im tone deaf but i tried an f30 next to a cube 60 and found the cube 60 sounded better. clearer, more focused sound and better distortion too. Hmm... this probably isn't the best place to talk smack about the F-series. :) However, welcome to the forum. All thoughts are welcome. Besides, if you like the cube 60 better than the F-30, then you'll save money.

hal9000

08-22-2006, 10:41 AM

hal9000

08-22-2006, 11:29 AM

Originally posted by Lt_Core

Thanks! You are correct.

I'm really tempted to get the Weber Mini Mass. I really want my DD-20 in the effects loop. There is an adjustable +4 db to -20 db output setting in the DD-20. Does that impact the overall level of the loop or just the delay effects? I've checked out the manual, and although it's a bit convoluted, it seems that either output mode 1 (stereo) or output mode 2 (direct/effected) on page 30 will give you the attenuation you need.

The manual states, "...if the input is mono while nothing is connected to the OUTPUT B jack (effect sound), then the sounds are not output as “A: Direct Sound/B: Effect Sound.” This leads me to believe that a mono input signal with the output configured for mode 2 will provide both the direct and effected signal on output A. In this case, you will then get both attenuation and delay which should sound sweet.

Lt_Core

08-22-2006, 11:46 AM

Originally posted by hal9000
I've checked out the manual, and although it's a bit convoluted, it seems that either output mode 1 (stereo) or output mode 2 (direct/effected) on page 30 will give you the attenuation you need.

The manual states, "...if the input is mono while nothing is connected to the OUTPUT B jack (effect sound), then the sounds are not output as “A: Direct Sound/B: Effect Sound.” This leads me to believe that a mono input signal with the output configured for mode 2 will provide both the direct and effected signal on output A. In this case, you will then get both attenuation and delay which should sound sweet.

So, this would act as a -20 db attenuation, plus I get to use some of my pedals in the loop without the 2 1/4" TS plugs? Sorry but this stuff confuses me.

hal9000

08-22-2006, 11:55 AM

Originally posted by Lt_Core

So, this would act as a -20 db attenuation, plus I get to use some of my pedals in the loop without the 2 1/4" TS plugs? Sorry but this stuff confuses me. From my understanding, the DD-20 will work as an attenuator and of course as a digital delay. The output won't necessarily be 20 dB of attenuation though. You'll just have to see how it works. You don't need and can't use the 1/4" TS plugs when the loop is employed as normal.

You'll also be able to put other FX in the loop. Just make sure that the other boxes can handle the loop's level. Usually, if a stomp box is used in a loop that was designed for pro line level the sound will become very processed and compressed losing bass and treble. The problem is due to a mismatched impedance and level.

Joeytpg

08-22-2006, 11:56 AM

ok, but now that the F-50 comes with a wide body....it means the old body is no longer made?.... i'd love to have a widebody f-50 but i guess the 18.75 body would be more portable and less weight

ashjn

08-22-2006, 03:35 PM

Originally posted by hal9000
From my understanding, the DD-20 will work as an attenuator and of course as a digital delay. The output won't necessarily be 20 dB of attenuation though. You'll just have to see how it works. You don't need and can't use the 1/4" TS plugs when the loop is employed as normal.

You'll also be able to put other FX in the loop. Just make sure that the other boxes can handle the loop's level. Usually, if a stomp box is used in a loop that was designed for pro line level the sound will become very processed and compressed losing bass and treble. The problem is due to a mismatched impedance and level.

So you're saying just set the output setting of the DD-20 to -20db instead of +4db and it should work the same? (At work right now, can't try it out...)

Surfcaster

08-22-2006, 03:55 PM

Originally posted by Joeytpg
ok, but now that the F-50 comes with a wide body....it means the old body is no longer made?.... i'd love to have a widebody f-50 but i guess the 18.75 body would be more portable and less weight

Personally I'm quite happy with the smaller body cabinet. The thing is still quite heavy, but I'm sure it's lighter than the widebody. As far as sounding boxy, I guess I don't have much to go on for comparison's sake, but I do have a 2x12 with a V30 and G12H30 in it that I sometimes run it through to get a slightly different tone/feel.

RichS

08-22-2006, 04:39 PM

I'm considering buying an F-50; I love the way these amps sound. My only reluctance is I really like a volume boost for solos. Has anyone found a good way to get a decent solo boost without using the contour switch as a solo boost. I'm not sure the contour actually provides enough of a boost & I may want the contour tone as a rythm crunch.

Maybe an eq in the effects loop as a boost?

ppvai

08-22-2006, 04:51 PM

hi,

i want to know the diference about the f-30 and the f-50
i want the most versatile:D

cus i play instrumental (like vai, petrucci) to metal

the only think i know its that they have diferent tubes:confused:
and that makes them sound a little diferent:confused:

what should i get?

thanks for the help

Joeytpg

08-22-2006, 05:54 PM

Originally posted by ppvai
hi,

i want to know the diference about the f-30 and the f-50
i want the most versatile:D

cus i play instrumental (like vai, petrucci) to metal

the only think i know its that they have diferent tubes:confused:
and that makes them sound a little diferent:confused:

what should i get?

thanks for the help

let me see if i've learned something here hehehe :P

The F-30 is the little brother in the f-series family, it's a 30Watt amp, comes in either combo with a V30 speaker or a head. It's packed with EL38 tubes which sound more "bright" giving you a more British sound. It's only 30 watts but it's a LOUD beast, so don't be fooled......from what i've heard here....it can hold on with a drummer pretty well.

The F-50 is the middle guy....50watt amp.....(F-100 being the BIG dog) but they're not different from each other other than the f-50 is a 50 watts amp and the F-100........yeah you guessed, a 100 watts beast. They come packed with 6L6 tubes, giving you a "darker" sound...definitely an AMERICAN sound. The F-50 combo comes with 1x12 speaker a C90 (Black Shadow) whereas the f-100 combo has 2x12

they both come as Head only also.

well there ya go hehehe i guess i've learned a few things from this forum....... go to the main page of the forum and listen to some clips there are f-30, f-50 and f-100 clips........

and by the way you can definitely do what you what with the F-series (Petrucci, metal) listen to tommy inkila's clips...tha dude pulls off some SERIOUS METAL TONES out of the f-50.

what should you get? ...honestly it depends....it's your ear....... Andy (Dann'sTheMan) says something all the time that i find incredibly true........."go with your ear" a lot of people let themselves carry with idea that if the amp is expensive it must sound good.....or even worst.....a lot of REBELS that for example used t love Boogies and then because a lot of bands are using them, suddenly they don't like it...... listen to the amp...play it (if you can) and let your ear decide.

Maybe a 30 watt F-30 sounds WAY Better to you than a Recto, or a MArk IV....or a Bogner or who knows..... :)

ashjn

08-22-2006, 06:16 PM

Is there a noticable difference in volume at all between the F-30 and F-50?

When i switch the half power switch on and off on my F-100, there is not a big difference at all in Volume between the 60 watts and 100 watts...

Lt_Core

08-22-2006, 06:28 PM

musicdog400

08-22-2006, 10:05 PM

So, this would act as a -20 db attenuation, plus I get to use some of my pedals in the loop without the 2 1/4" TS plugs?

I use a DD-20 in the loop of my F-50, and after reading the manual, my suspicion seems to be confirmed. You can adjust the effect level but not the direct level, so I don't think you can use the DD-20 to attenuate. I also have an MXR 10 band EQ in the loop and this helps to attenuate. Plus I run into the Weber Mass.

Dann'sTheMan

08-23-2006, 03:38 AM

Originally posted by RichS
I'm considering buying an F-50; I love the way these amps sound. My only reluctance is I really like a volume boost for solos. Has anyone found a good way to get a decent solo boost without using the contour switch as a solo boost. I'm not sure the contour actually provides enough of a boost & I may want the contour tone as a rythm crunch.

Maybe an eq in the effects loop as a boost?

Hi RichS,

I love the method I use to get a solo boost: :) I run a G-Major in the loop, and I have made up a custom cable to allow the G-Major to channel switch my F-50 whenever it is switching patches. This way I can stomp on one button for Clean, another for Lead, and another for Contour - each with whatever FX, or EQ or volume adjustment that I desire. This effectively turns the F-series into a 3 channel amp. :cool:

On top of that, the G-Major has a built in Preset Boost feature, so you can take any patch and boost it by a configurable amount. The default is 6 dB, but you can modify that if it's too much or too little. This way, you can have a boosted Clean, or Lead or Contour sound to punch through the mix when desired.

Consequently, you can use the Contour mode for heavy rhythms, and switch to the boosted Lead mode for solos (I often use this approach), or any combination you feel like. Furthermore, the G-Major also brings functionality like Tap Tempo, Tuner Mutes, and other cool live features that I could no longer do without. For more tips regarding the G-Major, check out this thread (http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=975902). :thu:

Here is how my rig hangs together (courtesy of the talented hal9000 who also uses a similar set up):
http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/dannstheman/music2/hal9000Andy_sRigFinalSmallRevC.png

Big smiles,

Andy.

Surfcaster

08-23-2006, 07:00 AM

SeasonOfPain

08-23-2006, 10:51 AM

Hello all! I've been lurking here for quite a few months, and decided to finally pop in and say thanks for all the great postings on this thread. Bought an F-50 earlier this year, and with all the hints and tips have integrated it fairly smoothly with my G-Major.

Taming my recording environment is another matter; however, I've finally gotten some acceptable recordings of the F-50 (special thanks to Tommi for his help on this in the J.Petrucci forum!).

Here's a quick mixdown (http://www.soundclick.com/bands/songInfo.cfm?bandID=359240&songID=4350500) of a track I've been working on for testing recording the F-50 & Mark IV. I'll be posting more in the future. Feel free to comment, disparage, etc. :)

LightHerUp

08-24-2006, 08:41 AM

Now that I have an custom jobie F-50 inbound in a few days, I was wondering if you guys had compare the hotplate to the weber mini mass on your F's.

If the FX loop attenuation doesn't do it for me, I'll be going after one of those two units. For me, I'll only be playing at home in the bedroom. Would the weber mini mass or hotplate best fit bedroom noodling?

Also, how does the hotplate work? I think the mini mass is just a speaker magnet, right? What's the hotplate's method?

Lt_Core

08-24-2006, 08:49 AM

I think I'm close to getting a Weber Mini Mass. I need to have my DD-20 delay pedal in the loop. Delay pedal gets too much gain upfront when using the OD channel.

Hot Plate costs around 2.5 times the Mini Mass. Not sure if there is a 2.5 times improvement.

LightHerUp

08-24-2006, 08:54 AM

Yeah, I'm leaning towards the mini mass, if the loop mod doesn't work for me. I was just curious if one sounded better for bedroom noodling. I think I heard that the mini mass was good for that, and the hotplate was better for gig attenuating.

Just wanted to confirm.

Eve

musicdog400

08-24-2006, 09:14 AM

That new weber mass looks interesting, with the seperate bass and treble controls. The main complaint with the attentuators is the loss of treble with severe attenuation. Maybe the seperate control helps.

Lt_Core

08-24-2006, 09:18 AM

I don't really use my F-50 for noodling at home. My F-50 is a pure band practice/gigging amp. What gig attenuating problems does the Mini Mass have? First I've heard of this.

hal9000

08-24-2006, 09:34 AM

Originally posted by LightHerUp
Now that I have an custom jobie F-50 inbound in a few days, I was wondering if you guys had compare the hotplate to the weber mini mass on your F's.

If the FX loop attenuation doesn't do it for me, I'll be going after one of those two units. For me, I'll only be playing at home in the bedroom. Would the weber mini mass or hotplate best fit bedroom noodling?

Also, how does the hotplate work? I think the mini mass is just a speaker magnet, right? What's the hotplate's method? The Hot Plate has an array of resistive and reactive (inductors and capacitors) elements for attenuation instead of a speaker motor like the Mass. Both have their pros and cons. IMO, the Hot Plate doesn't sound that great past -16 dB, and I really prefer to have it set for -12 dB. There was a thread around a long time ago where the poster had done some signal analysis of the Hot Plate vs. Mass, and the conclusion was that the Mass was a bit darker than the Hot Plate overall, and the Hot Plate's output more closely approximated the original signal. However, only you'll be able to tell what you like best. Personally, after -16 dB, the treble compensation on the Hot Plate becomes a little "scritchy" for lack of a better word. I suppose nails on a chalkboard would be the closest type of sound to what I'm trying to convey, but not to that level of absurdity.

Ultimately, bedroom levels are tough for any tube amplifier to pull off. Even a 1 W amplifier through a V30 cab will produce 100 dB SPL at 1 meter. That's loud. You're F-50 is capable of playing 17 dB louder than that clean, and probably 20 dB louder than that dimed.

If you really want to use your DD-20 in the loop and you can't get any attenuation from it, you might think about getting a secondary device (like an MXR 10-band EQ) to use for that purpose. Besides, an EQ in the loop is awesome. You can get every bit of the Mark IV's lead tone aggression that way. Or, you could build the project attenuator that I've posted before in this thread.

Lt_Core

08-24-2006, 09:42 AM

Originally posted by hal9000
If you really want to use your DD-20 in the loop and you can't get any attenuation from it, you might think about getting a secondary device (like an MXR 10-band EQ) to use for that purpose. Besides, an EQ in the loop is awesome. You can get every bit of the Mark IV's lead tone aggression that way. Or, you could build the project attenuator that I've posted before in this thread.

I have a plain Boss GE-7. Maybe I can try that in the loop. Just use the pullback the volume I'm guessing. Sometimes I use the GE-7 for a mid-boost + volume for solos.

What benefits would the MXR 10-band EQ give me over the GE-7 in the loop?

LightHerUp

08-24-2006, 09:48 AM

Ah, yeah. I forgot about that. A while ago I was considering an MXR EQ for that very purpose.

Lt. Core, tell me if it works with your GE7! :)

Lt_Core

08-24-2006, 09:55 AM

Originally posted by LightHerUp
Ah, yeah. I forgot about that. A while ago I was considering an MXR EQ for that very purpose.

Lt. Core, tell me if it works with your GE7! :)

Will do! I won't get to it until next Wednesday :(

We're going out of town for a long weekend. Band practice is next Wed. We have two gigs next week, too. Hopefully I'll have time to experiment.

musicdog400

08-24-2006, 10:03 AM

What benefits would the MXR 10-band EQ give me over the GE-7 in the loop?

Apart from more bands, I am not sure. It does have two level controls, one for input and one for ouput. The MXR uses a non-standard power adapter, and is not always tolerant of the higher signal levels you can have in the effects loop (sounds ok but the lights blink).

Overall I like it. I spent an hour last night trying to copy the mark iv scoop tone with the F-50 and the EQ. I just can't get the bottom tight enough.

hal9000

08-24-2006, 10:04 AM

Originally posted by Lt_Core

I have a plain Boss GE-7. Maybe I can try that in the loop. Just use the pullback the volume I'm guessing. Sometimes I use the GE-7 for a mid-boost + volume for solos.

What benefits would the MXR 10-band EQ give me over the GE-7 in the loop? I'm not sure you'd really use more of the bands compared to the GE-7 but it has a wider input voltage range so it could handle the F-series' pro-line level loop. The GE-7 may also be fine. Give it a try. While you're at it, scoop that bad boy and try out your Metallica MOP licks. :D

UsrName

08-25-2006, 08:20 AM

OK guys, for the last few days, I have been trying to get a less harsh tone out of my F-30 with countour on. It sounds great at lower volumes, but the more I raise the master, the harsher it sounds. On this mode, I'm trying to get a sort of Metallica "Black Album" mark type tone. The tone is there, but really harsh and undefined. What am I doing wrong?

Here is my setup:

PRS CE-24 (HFS/Vintage pups)
F-30 combo
EarCandy 212 w/ V30/G12-T75

settings: Gain-12-1:00, Treble-12-1:00, Mid-10:30, Bass-8-9:00, Master-9:00-11:00

I've tried dialing back the treble and gain as Hal9000 suggested, but to no avail. I even dialed the treble back to 9:00 and the high end was still just piercing. I've also tried running the combo by itself, together with the cab, and with the cab by itself, being careful to mind the proper load.

Please help, I really want to get along with this little guy!

PS: Is the F-50 this way also? Should I upgrade?

hal9000

08-25-2006, 08:37 AM

Originally posted by UsrName
OK guys, for the last few days, I have been trying to get a less harsh tone out of my F-30 with countour on. It sounds great at lower volumes, but the more I raise the master, the harsher it sounds. On this mode, I'm trying to get a sort of Metallica "Black Album" mark type tone. The tone is there, but really harsh and undefined. What am I doing wrong?

Here is my setup:

PRS CE-24 (HFS/Vintage pups)
F-30 combo
EarCandy 212 w/ V30/G12-T75

settings: Gain-12-1:00, Treble-12-1:00, Mid-10:30, Bass-8-9:00, Master-9:00-11:00

I've tried dialing back the treble and gain as Hal9000 suggested, but to no avail. I even dialed the treble back to 9:00 and the high end was still just piercing. I've also tried running the combo by itself, together with the cab, and with the cab by itself, being careful to mind the proper load.

Please help, I really want to get along with this little guy!

PS: Is the F-50 this way also? Should I upgrade? It's always hard to imagine how other people hear things of course, but perhaps you're just not a fan of the Vintage 30 speaker? Also, the G12T-75 is notorious for harsh treble so that isn't helping matters. However, since you're going for the Black album tone, I'd like to see you try an EQ in the loop adjusted to 90% mix. Do yourself a favor and head over to music store with your Mesa F-30 and audition a Danelectro EQ, DOD FX-40B, MXR 6 or 10-band, etc. and see if you can get the tone you're looking for, while at the same time reducing the treble in the region you hear that makes the sound harsh. Most will have the same ability as far as boost and cut, but I guarantee they will sound different. Get the one that affects the tone the least when in bypass and with the sliders at unity gain (center detent on all). Also, don’t boost if at all possible. Try to keep the bass and treble roughly at unity and drop the mids around 700-800 Hz. Then, adjust the overall level slider to what you’d like to hear (FX loop attenuation). You may end up boosting bass for heavy-sounding palm mutes.

LightHerUp

08-25-2006, 09:03 AM

Originally posted by hal9000
It's always hard to imagine how other people hear things of course, but perhaps you're just not a fan of the Vintage 30 speaker? Also, the G12T-75 is notorious for harsh treble so that isn't helping matters. However, since you're going for the Black album tone, I'd like to see you try an EQ in the loop adjusted to 90% mix. Do yourself a favor and head over to music store with your Mesa F-30 and audition a Danelectro EQ, DOD FX-40B, MXR 6 or 10-band, etc. and see if you can get the tone you're looking for, while at the same time reducing the treble in the region you hear that makes the sound harsh. Most will have the same ability as far as boost and cut, but I guarantee they will sound different. Get the one that affects the tone the least when in bypass and with the sliders at unity gain (center detent on all). Also, don’t boost if at all possible. Try to keep the bass and treble roughly at unity and drop the mids around 700-800 Hz. Then, adjust the overall level slider to what you’d like to hear (FX loop attenuation). You may end up boosting bass for heavy-sounding palm mutes.

I've always hated the V30 and especially the G12T-75's for that very reason. They sound harsh to my ears. I had a 4x12 once with G12t-75's and it sounded like nothing but treble and bass -- got rid of it fast.

hal9000

08-25-2006, 09:06 AM

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y34/afraiddave/hal9000GigRig8_23_06.jpg

Last night at practice I found an excellent metal tone, but I'm afraid it's not going to mean much without the gear I use. I've really been into heavy sludgy guitar tones recently after I picked-up Corrosion of Conformity’s latest In The Arms Of God Click to listen for samples (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0007X9UJC/ref=ase_wxo-20/104-7977397-3475940?v=glance&n=5174&tagActionCode=wxo-20). Since the amount of control with the F-series’ EQ given higher gain levels (2:00) is minimal, I decided to run the gain lower and boost up to roughly the same level. So, my amp was setup like this on contour:

G: 10:30, T: 1:00, M: 2:00, B: 10:30 M: 10:30.

I used my Germania treble booster set for about 11:00 on the gain knob and then my G-Major to equalize the amp by basically dropping highs and mids and bumping bass up. My final settings were something like this:

G-Major's EQ:
1) 125 Hz, +12 dB, 1.0 Octave
2) 750, -3 dB, 1.0 Octave
3) 2.6 kHz, -6 dB, 1.0 Octave

The end result is a very tight, crunchy, saturated tone with a dark top end (not muffled though) with plenty of chugga-chugga thump.

One interesting result was that without the Germania, I was getting more bass than I normally have as a result of the gain being reduced and the TMB controls having more impact. With regular OD and my Strat’s neck single coil I got my heavy blues tones and the bridge HB gave me a nice hard rock tone. The Ravelle brought the heavy in regular contour with its bridge SD Custom, finally my singer and bass player had to pick up their jaws off the floor when I switched the Germania and G-Major into the newly created patch which I appropriately name “Sludge-o-mania” on the display.

Anyone with two EQs could approximate the tone I was getting simply by raising mids and treble pre-amplifier and adding bass but dropping mids/treble in the FX loop.

Adam Poland

08-25-2006, 09:16 AM

I figured out a pretty nice way to get the bass a bit tighter without pedals.

I used to use my Agile AL3000 Prestige with it exclusively and I liked it, but, the lows weren't tight enough. I switched to my Agile AD2500 double cut and with the stock pickups and maple top, it tightened things up immensley. I even ended up adding more bass to my sound than what I originally had and it's about as tight as I can get it right now. But I think in the near future I'm going to get a Duncan Distortion or Dimarzio Evo to tighten things up to more extremities.

My settings may be somewhat overkill, but I had the V preset EQ thing on the Contour channel in mind so bear with me.

Gain at about 1 o clock, treble at 10-11 o clock, mids at 2 o clock, and bass at 10-11 o clock.

I play a lot of metal and stuff that needs that quick stop and go and it does pretty well. A lot better than my Randall ever did that's for sure.

hal9000

08-25-2006, 09:24 AM

Originally posted by Adam Poland
I figured out a pretty nice way to get the bass a bit tighter without pedals.

I used to use my Agile AL3000 Prestige with it exclusively and I liked it, but, the lows weren't tight enough. I switched to my Agile AD2500 double cut and with the stock pickups and maple top, it tightened things up immensley. I even ended up adding more bass to my sound than what I originally had and it's about as tight as I can get it right now. But I think in the near future I'm going to get a Duncan Distortion or Dimarzio Evo to tighten things up to more extremities.

My settings may be somewhat overkill, but I had the V preset EQ thing on the Contour channel in mind so bear with me.

Gain at about 1 o clock, treble at 10-11 o clock, mids at 2 o clock, and bass at 10-11 o clock.

I play a lot of metal and stuff that needs that quick stop and go and it does pretty well. A lot better than my Randall ever did that's for sure. Adam, welcome to the forum and the F-series brotherhood! :)

I use settings like yours for my core tone most of the time.

Tommi Inkila

08-26-2006, 12:18 AM

Hi brothers!

Once again I'm amazed how much info there are after my short break :eek:

It is actually quite hard to keep up with this topic. There's so much goin on at the same time. I was wondering if you guys would be interested in our own little forum... I might have some webspace free for it.

I'd like to hear if you're interested in own F-Forum? If there's enough "yes", I'll see if I can put it up :)

Joeytpg

08-26-2006, 01:22 AM

YES!

i'm not an F-series owner YET....but i'll get there eventually! :D

tommi........i'm interested in knowing what did you use for recording......i read somewhere that you recorded your bands album, or demos at your own studio/house? what did you use? (everything, from equipment to softwares, mics...etc.... :D)

i like the production and sound....and i'm into recording as well...i'm a solo artist and i'm putting together a 4 song demo. i'll be arranging the drums with EZDrummer, i play guitar/vocals, and i'll add the bass too...(maybe some keyboards here and there, nuthin' speciall)

so far i have an M-Audio Firewire 410 interface, Pro Tools M-Powered, iMac G5. I've been thinking about buying aother interface, but honestly i believe i'm better off buying a GOOD mic pre amp, since 70% of my music depends on it (Vocals, Miced guitars, bass)

what do you suggest?

thanks a lot...

-Joey-

P.S.
by the way i downloaded the clips from your band's website......great music....awesome F-50 tone :D

Tommi Inkila

08-26-2006, 06:42 AM

Originally posted by Joeytpg
YES!

i'm not an F-series owner YET....but i'll get there eventually! :D

tommi........i'm interested in knowing what did you use for recording......i read somewhere that you recorded your bands album, or demos at your own studio/house? what did you use? (everything, from equipment to softwares, mics...etc.... :D)

i like the production and sound....and i'm into recording as well...i'm a solo artist and i'm putting together a 4 song demo. i'll be arranging the drums with EZDrummer, i play guitar/vocals, and i'll add the bass too...(maybe some keyboards here and there, nuthin' speciall)

so far i have an M-Audio Firewire 410 interface, Pro Tools M-Powered, iMac G5. I've been thinking about buying aother interface, but honestly i believe i'm better off buying a GOOD mic pre amp, since 70% of my music depends on it (Vocals, Miced guitars, bass)

what do you suggest?

thanks a lot...

-Joey-

P.S.
by the way i downloaded the clips from your band's website......great music....awesome F-50 tone :D
Hey thanks for checking my and my band's music!

The album is recorded in my bedroom except for the drums for which we rented a room from local association... it was nothing special and not ment for recording.

Here's the list of my recording equipment:

SPL Goldmike mk2
Shure SM57
Rode NT1A
Behringer B1
ART Tube MP
RME-Audio HDSP9632
BEHRINGER ADA8000
UAD-1
some Voxengo and Kjaerhus plugins and Drumagog for enforcing the drums.

...and then we borrowed for drums...

Audix Fusion mic kit
another Behringer B1
Audix D6

The SPL made big difference in the end quality and I would say that something like it will be the best bet to improve your upcoming project. Our album was mastered at the Cutting Room... I didn't do it myself because it's always good to use some fresh ears.

Joeytpg

08-26-2006, 12:14 PM

i believe so Tommi........ that preamp looks sweet......

how did you record?

Guitars: Miced throw the preamp into the computer?

Bass: direct? through where? miced?

Drums: Miced? how many mics? (your preamps only has two channels? the two mic placement technique? or recorded different parts and mixed later? :confused:

well anyways...i love the sound...... i feel the drums lack some power.....they're kind of soft...BUT maybe you wanted them like that i don't know :) they feel too soft for my taste but yuu can hear everything (kick, snare, cymbals) loud and clear which matter most. :thu:

Tommi Inkila

08-26-2006, 05:35 PM

Originally posted by Joeytpg
i believe so Tommi........ that preamp looks sweet......

how did you record?

Guitars: Miced throw the preamp into the computer?

Bass: direct? through where? miced?

Drums: Miced? how many mics? (your preamps only has two channels? the two mic placement technique? or recorded different parts and mixed later? :confused:

well anyways...i love the sound...... i feel the drums lack some power.....they're kind of soft...BUT maybe you wanted them like that i don't know :) they feel too soft for my taste but yuu can hear everything (kick, snare, cymbals) loud and clear which matter most. :thu:
Yep, guitars are miked through the SPL, bass went direct through it and so did keyboards and vocals.

Drums were recorded with SPL on overheads, otherwise I used ADA8000... there were 8 mics on the drums.

We aimed for clear sound on the album and actually the album has mellower sound than our kind of music normally has. We also didn't wan't to ruin the sound quality in mastering, so we ordered very dynamic album... use your volume control and see if it starts kicking :)

Joeytpg

08-26-2006, 09:54 PM

actually the guitar come right out of the speakers and kick me in the nuts every time i play one of your songs!! hehe it's just the drums that seem kinda mellow.....(don't get me wrong, the recording quality is great...i'm talking about kick you in the face tight ass drum sound, if that makes sense :P)

damn well if you used the SPL for everything it must be a great preamp because it sounds amazing.....i like it a lot....

thinking hard about buying one now.....

kind of pricey but again, if you get that quality i guess it's worth it if you're seriously into Recording and stuff (which i am)

Have you used any other good mic preamp that costs a little bit less? because i need to buy my amp once i get to Spain (sold my old one) so there goes 1,500 euros) :S

Tommi Inkila

08-27-2006, 01:46 AM

Originally posted by Joeytpg
actually the guitar come right out of the speakers and kick me in the nuts every time i play one of your songs!! hehe it's just the drums that seem kinda mellow.....(don't get me wrong, the recording quality is great...i'm talking about kick you in the face tight ass drum sound, if that makes sense :P)

damn well if you used the SPL for everything it must be a great preamp because it sounds amazing.....i like it a lot....

thinking hard about buying one now.....

kind of pricey but again, if you get that quality i guess it's worth it if you're seriously into Recording and stuff (which i am)

Have you used any other good mic preamp that costs a little bit less? because i need to buy my amp once i get to Spain (sold my old one) so there goes 1,500 euros) :S
I'm glad that production is kicking overall... well, our next album is going to be a bit heavier or at least it seems so at the moment.

I haven't used any cheaper preamps that have given as good results... perhaps some cheaper models from SPL like TrackOne or if you can find the older version of Goldmike. At www.thomann.de it goes practically for free.

mattleesc

08-27-2006, 04:32 AM

hey guys, fellow f-30 112 combo user here.

about the f-30, ive kinda come to a conclusion that it really isnt a "high-gain" amp despite the buttload of gain the amp has. sure, it can do sludgey heavy chugga downtuned riffs, but im more for tight, articulate and punchy gain. plus, anything other then low volume levels tend to get too harsh.

ive heard plenty of clips from other high gain heads (engl, peaveys, framus) and thats kinda the high gain tone i have in mind. my band plays various post-hardcore and metalcore stuff which the f-30 doesnt seem to cope very well.

is this how the f-30 is or am i just not tweaking enough? dont get me wrong, the f-30 has amazing cleans slightly overdrive tones. i love the raw grinding mesa character. the amp just isnt satisfying for my current high-gain cravings.

Joeytpg

08-27-2006, 10:44 AM

Originally posted by mattleesc
hey guys, fellow f-30 112 combo user here.

about the f-30, ive kinda come to a conclusion that it really isnt a "high-gain" amp despite the buttload of gain the amp has. sure, it can do sludgey heavy chugga downtuned riffs, but im more for tight, articulate and punchy gain. plus, anything other then low volume levels tend to get too harsh.

ive heard plenty of clips from other high gain heads (engl, peaveys, framus) and thats kinda the high gain tone i have in mind. my band plays various post-hardcore and metalcore stuff which the f-30 doesnt seem to cope very well.

is this how the f-30 is or am i just not tweaking enough? dont get me wrong, the f-30 has amazing cleans slightly overdrive tones. i love the raw grinding mesa character. the amp just isnt satisfying for my current high-gain cravings.

hey dude...sup, and welcome to the family... (i don't own an F-series YET, but i feel part of it.........really nice ppl here :P)

back to the point......from the clips i've heard, and the comments from the F-series/Mesa gurus here....i've come to the conclusion that the F-series is not an amp for BLACK METAL/METALCORE etc....it's a pretty heavy amp....but if you're looking for that fat/gainy/huge sound that maybe a recto gives you, well the f-series can't really give it to ya completely.....

.......maybe if you boost it, but again all depends on what your needs are......for example Tommi Inkila has some seriously heavy guitar tone, but again it's a heavy/fat tone but not really gainy..(lamb of god, etc) so the f-50 works for him perfectly............you have to keep in mind that the f-series overdrive is a combination of a mark series distortion mixed with that recto-ish sound.....but it's NOT a recto. it you play something heavy with very fast palmuting then you might wanna try a Recto, even a MArk IV (although the guys here say that with a proper cab and speaker you can make an f-series sound VERY close to a MArk....at least it doesn't fall behind)

if you have a combo then try the f-30 with a cab....i've heard it's a VERY VERY Different sound...WAYY more tight and heavy.... :wave:

mattleesc

08-27-2006, 11:43 AM

i do boost my mesa with a either a bad monkey or catlinbread SCOD. still doesnt cut it.

and theres no way i can find a mesa f30 head locally, i bought the f30 overseas..

Joeytpg

08-27-2006, 05:37 PM

Originally posted by mattleesc
i do boost my mesa with a either a bad monkey or catlinbread SCOD. still doesnt cut it.

and theres no way i can find a mesa f30 head locally, i bought the f30 overseas..

you can run your combo with a cab...... it's no problem :) try it and let us know

Dann'sTheMan

08-27-2006, 05:38 PM

Originally posted by mattleesc
hey guys, fellow f-30 112 combo user here.

about the f-30, ive kinda come to a conclusion that it really isnt a "high-gain" amp despite the buttload of gain the amp has. sure, it can do sludgey heavy chugga downtuned riffs, but im more for tight, articulate and punchy gain. plus, anything other then low volume levels tend to get too harsh.

ive heard plenty of clips from other high gain heads (engl, peaveys, framus) and thats kinda the high gain tone i have in mind. my band plays various post-hardcore and metalcore stuff which the f-30 doesnt seem to cope very well.

is this how the f-30 is or am i just not tweaking enough? dont get me wrong, the f-30 has amazing cleans slightly overdrive tones. i love the raw grinding mesa character. the amp just isnt satisfying for my current high-gain cravings.

Hi mattleesc,

and welcome to the F-series Lounge. :) The F-series do indeed have "buttloads" of gain (cool expression) :p however, as you've found, the gain structure is set up for a versatile array of tones, from low to high gain - however it does make the tight modern sound a little more elusive to bring out. This is partly due to the amount of bass that is allowed through the gain stages, and although this makes for authentic low and medium gain blues/rock together with a huge fat high gaid sound, it may be too loose for a tight high gain sound that you after.

I've observed some of the brotherhood getting great results for tight high gains sounds by using both pre and post EQ. The idea is to remove the bass so that it doesn't go through the gain stages, and then add the bass back after the gain stages. If you're looking for a solution for your F-30, I'd suggesting starting here. :)

Big smiles,

Andy.

Lt_Core

08-28-2006, 08:38 AM

Has anyone used Eurotubes replacement tube kits with their F-50? I would like to have an extra set of tubes on hand since we're gigging alot these days.

They have a regular retube kit and a high-gain retube kit. He mentions that you do not need the high-gain kit if you're not dime'ing your drive channel. Thoughts on Eurotubes? Thanks!

https://ssl.eurotubes.com/cart/index.php?page=view_products&category_id=6&sub_category_id=34

Surfcaster

08-28-2006, 10:50 AM

Originally posted by mattleesc
hey guys, fellow f-30 112 combo user here.

about the f-30, ive kinda come to a conclusion that it really isnt a "high-gain" amp despite the buttload of gain the amp has. sure, it can do sludgey heavy chugga downtuned riffs, but im more for tight, articulate and punchy gain. plus, anything other then low volume levels tend to get too harsh.

ive heard plenty of clips from other high gain heads (engl, peaveys, framus) and thats kinda the high gain tone i have in mind. my band plays various post-hardcore and metalcore stuff which the f-30 doesnt seem to cope very well.

is this how the f-30 is or am i just not tweaking enough? dont get me wrong, the f-30 has amazing cleans slightly overdrive tones. i love the raw grinding mesa character. the amp just isnt satisfying for my current high-gain cravings.

I think the issue here is a matter of interpretation. By most standards, the F-Series are definitely high gain amps. The JCM800 is considered a high gain amp and the F50 can definitely keep pace with a JCM800 in terms of the AMOUNT of gain...obviously the TONAL NUANCES of these amps are very different. I.e., "tight", "punchy", "bright", "dark", etc. (Shoot, even AC/DC's sound is considered high gain just using a Plexi, but it's certainly no where near the amount of gain of most rock guitar sounds these days).

NOW, today's modern metal sound is definitely a higher gain sound than it was 20 years ago, there is no question about that. So an amp can be a high gain amp and still not have enough gain for today's metalcore...and that's pretty much where the F50 sits...at least IMHO.

Spirithunter

08-28-2006, 11:37 AM

Hi everybody,

Great clips here!

I am on my way out the door as i type this to test them and was wondering how do they record direct into a preamp/board? I have to be quite more times than not.

My setup is DI into LA-610 > Protools 002R.

Love the Mesa tone and looking to get into something by Mesa at this point so any other options would be cool. Done a ton of research and more confused now than before. The F30/50 seem like a excellent choice by what i have heard here.

musicdog400

08-28-2006, 01:26 PM

I tried the direct out this weekend, and it wasn't bad, but I can do much better using the effects send, or the weber mass out, into the Behringer Ultra-G. Here is a clip:

clip (http://www.oz.net/~markw/2note_mix.mp3)

hal9000

08-28-2006, 01:36 PM

Originally posted by Spirithunter
Hi everybody,

Great clips here!

I am on my way out the door as i type this to test them and was wondering how do they record direct into a preamp/board? I have to be quite more times than not.

My setup is DI into LA-610 > Protools 002R.

Love the Mesa tone and looking to get into something by Mesa at this point so any other options would be cool. Done a ton of research and more confused now than before. The F30/50 seem like a excellent choice by what i have heard here. The recording output is sufficient for late night silent practice with headphones or recording, but since it's cab emulated and tapped off the preamp, it doesn't capture the great room tones of the F-series to my satisfaction. It sounds a bit muffled to me and requires a lot of EQ to sound great. It's not really a problem though, since there really isn't an amp made that has a great sounding direct out. So, that brings me to my point. I've had really good results from going direct by employing a load device (Hot Plate) and running the signal through my PODxt Live as a cab sim and FX processor. This is the kind of setup I'm talking about:

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y34/afraiddave/hal9000SilentDirectRecording.png

As far as auditioning the amp, please take a look at the settings in my sig for a good place to start with the F-series controls. Also, you can tame the volume of the F-series by using a volume pedal, FX processor, Mix pot master (sig), etc. in the loop so you can get great low volume performance.

Spirithunter

08-28-2006, 04:11 PM

Hey guys! Thanks for the great info.:thu:

musicdog400

08-28-2006, 05:32 PM

Hal,
Did you assemble your Doberman amp ?

I built the AX84p1, ordering the parts from Mouser, but next time I will order the Doberman kit.

hal9000

08-28-2006, 05:51 PM

Originally posted by musicdog400
Hal,
Did you assemble your Doberman amp ?

I built the AX84p1, ordering the parts from Mouser, but next time I will order the Doberman kit. Nope. I commissioned Chris Hurley to build this Hi-Octane and it's one of his last. The Doberman kits are nice and my amp turned out great. It's like a 5 W JCM 800. I've had it about two years now.

You can hear it using the setup above:
http://www.64graphics.com/hal9000HiOctaneHeaviness.mp3

I'd like to build a few amps eventually, but art and music take up all my time, so I had lay off building amps for a while. Besides, I get my engineering fix at work. :)

Lt_Core

08-29-2006, 07:58 AM

Originally posted by Lt_Core
Has anyone used Eurotubes replacement tube kits with their F-50? I would like to have an extra set of tubes on hand since we're gigging alot these days.

They have a regular retube kit and a high-gain retube kit. He mentions that you do not need the high-gain kit if you're not dime'ing your drive channel. Thoughts on Eurotubes? Thanks!

https://ssl.eurotubes.com/cart/index.php?page=view_products&category_id=6&sub_category_id=34

Nobody has any thoughts on replacement tubes for the F-50? You can do it!

Surfcaster

08-29-2006, 08:21 AM

Originally posted by Spirithunter
Hi everybody,

Great clips here!

I am on my way out the door as i type this to test them and was wondering how do they record direct into a preamp/board? I have to be quite more times than not.

My setup is DI into LA-610 > Protools 002R.

Love the Mesa tone and looking to get into something by Mesa at this point so any other options would be cool. Done a ton of research and more confused now than before. The F30/50 seem like a excellent choice by what i have heard here.

In and of itself, I find the Record Out on the F-Series amp to be less than satisfying. I have tried a couple of set ups that have yielded acceptable results. Currently I run it through my Line 6 Toneport, bypassing the amp models and employing the cab sims, parametric EQ (I find I need to add a lot of highs to the signal) and effects. Here's a link to my Soundclick page and the first song was recorded in this manner:

F-50 Direct to Toneport (http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=381358)

I've not tried the Behringer Ultra G, but have thought about it since the price is right, and musicdog400's clips sound very good. That would be the cheapest route.

In the past I took the signal from the Record Out, ran it through my Boss GE-7 then through a Tech 21 TRI O.D. using it only as a speaker sim...the tone was okay but it was a cumbersome setup.

Surfcaster

08-29-2006, 08:41 AM

Originally posted by Lt_Core

Nobody has any thoughts on replacement tubes for the F-50? You can do it!

I have not done it yet. Currently my F50 only gets played a few hours on the weekend, due to an infant and 3 yr old at home I mostly play my Toneport through headphones late at night these days. So that means two things. One, the F50 is not my top priority right now. Two, the tubes get little wear and probably have lots of life left in them.

There is a third factor, and that is I have a small 15W amp that I can swap tubes at will and not worry about biasing or anything like that, and frankly switching from one tube to another (preamp or power amp) provides only a VERY subtle tonal difference...hardly even noticeable in some cases...at least to my ears. So, considering all of those factors, it's not worth spending the cash at this point to replace perfectly good tubes with ones that might only marginally affect the tone of the amp. Of course, one day I will, and at this point getting a full retube kit from Eurotubes is the most likely option. But that's all I have to say about that.

musicdog400

08-29-2006, 09:40 AM

Nobody has any thoughts on replacement tubes for the F-50? You can do it!

I haven't replaced the tubes in the F-50, but will probably put Mesas back in when I do.

I did a tube experiment a while back in my carvin belair, and did find a noticeable difference between brands. Overall I founf the JJs to be warmer / darker (which I generally like) and the EH, Sovtek LPS to be brighter. I really likes the LPS. I did not like the GT 12ax7m, but I have heard they are much better now, so I may try one again.

In the past I took the signal from the Record Out, ran it through my Boss GE-7 then through a Tech 21 TRI O.D.
One evening this week I am going to try using two EQs in series to mimic a cab sim. I don't think using one will be enough since you need more than 12-15dB cut in some of the frequencies.

Ogi-wan

08-29-2006, 10:40 AM

Can anyone comment on what swapping out the 12AX7 tubes for Mesa's SPAX7-A would do?

(Besides ligtening my wallet. :D )

Originally posted by Surfcaster
[B]

...frankly switching from one tube to another (preamp or power amp) provides only a VERY subtle tonal difference...hardly even noticeable in some cases...at least to my ears./B]

Spirithunter

08-29-2006, 02:14 PM

Hi Surfcaster,

I have been checking out your tunes the last few days. I kind of like the tone for "Detuned Metal" and that was DI. It seems to me i need get "cab sims, post EQ" to get a decent tone if i am going DI.

hal9000 has a setup which look interesting but i have read good and bad about using the Hot Plate effecting the over all tone. Some people say it mess with the tone and some say it doesn't.

The music genre i play is something like Tommi Inkila sound.

I am really digging the recording's here at this site. Anyone know what his setup might be? This is a link from the first page of Mesa F-series Lounge.

http://www.soundvenue.com/band.asp?id=1032&view=mp3&itemid=19387

Surfcaster

08-29-2006, 03:21 PM

Originally posted by Ogi-wan
Can anyone comment on what swapping out the 12AX7 tubes for Mesa's SPAX7-A would do?

(Besides ligtening my wallet. :D )

Well, I should qualify my statement a little. If you start using a different TYPE of preamp tube, then the differences are more noticeable. I've tried putting both a 5751 and a 12AT7 in V2 of my F50...both lower gain tubes. I hardly noticed much difference with the 5751 (and I've heard others report similar findings, but not specifically with F-Series amps) With the 12AT7, which is lower gain yet, there was noticeably less gain. I was actually hoping to clean up the loose bottom end with a lower gain tube, but it didn't work. I had to turn the gain up higher to acheive the same level of gain as with a 12AX7 (DUH!) and then the bottom end was just as loose as it was with the 12AX7. So I pretty much wasted $35 on tubes there for no tonal improvements.

As for the SPAX7, I have no idea how it supposed to differ from Mesa's Chinese 12AX7, so it's hard to tell.

Surfcaster

08-29-2006, 03:25 PM

Originally posted by Spirithunter
Hi Surfcaster,

I have been checking out your tunes the last few days. I kind of like the tone for "Detuned Metal" and that was DI. It seems to me i need get "cab sims, post EQ" to get a decent tone if i am going DI.

It's interesting. I cut that clip just to see what the amp could do, it's not a tone I generally use as I'm more into that classic rock crunch and 80's hard rock/metal tones. But I don't think I've ever gotten that much gain out of that amp when playing through the speaker...much less anything that tight. Made me think if I really wanted to record modern metal stuff with that amp, direct would be the way to go.

Concerning the Hot Plate, MHO is that the F-Series amps don't really benefit that much from the Hot Plate. My experience is that reducing volume to basement levels with the HP sounded pretty much dead on to simply turning the Master down. For me, the Hot Plate and Weber Mass type of devices are probably THE solution to taming a Non-Master Volume amp (i.e., 100w Plexi) because you HAVE to crank those amps way up to get them to crunch since they have no independent gain and volume controls) but that amps with Master Volumes and independent gain controls don't benefit that much from them....UNLESS you've just got to have your power amp screaming all the time....and again, IMHO, the F-Series amps don't sound THAT much better with the power amp screaming to make it worth the extra wear on the tubes.

My conclusions is that the F-50 just has to be loud to get the best sound out of it. I've tried a Weber Mini Mass and the volume-control-in-the-loop thing and to me they all sound just like turning the master volume down. I've had the best luck with my current set up of using one EQ pedal in front of the amp to pull back some bass frequencies then using another in the loop to boost bass frequencies. To me this helps to balance the frequencies with the master at 9:00 or a bit lower. It's not an ideal solution either, though. I don't think I'd need to do that if I had the master turned up to 10:00 or higher, but for settings lower than that, this has worked best for me.

ashjn

08-29-2006, 06:22 PM

Talked to Mike today @ Mesa Boogie today and he gave me a suggestion I never though about. Slaving the F-100 into my Stereo 2:50 to run it in stereo. Don't know why I didn't think of this. So now I have my Les Paul-->F-100-->Effects send into Roland GR-20-->Boss DD-20-->Stereo 2:50-->2 Mesa Boogie 2x12 Cabs. Sounds great and the stereo delays and synths sound really cool with the F-100. I've always loved stereo delays, and got a good deal on the Stereo 2:50 which made it much cheaper than buying another F-100. Here are some crappy pics I took...

Overview
http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f315/ASHJNBITCH/NewRigPics009.jpg

Small Rack
http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f315/ASHJNBITCH/NewRigPics005.jpg

Left Side
http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f315/ASHJNBITCH/NewRigPics006.jpg

Right Side
http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f315/ASHJNBITCH/NewRigPics001.jpg

Pedals
http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f315/ASHJNBITCH/NewRigPics004.jpg

musicdog400

08-29-2006, 10:26 PM

FWIW I tried running both of my EQs in series from the weber mass out, to the line in of my sound card. It didn't work. You really need about 70dB attenuation to tame the high end and the pedals were probably only giving me around 30dB. I found this out by firing up Jack Rack, and loading up an EQ and playing with it until I got some decent sounds. The software EQ can give me 70dB.

For the warmer sounds I still prefer micing. But I still haven't found an optimal way to record metal / nu metal sounds.

markmann

08-30-2006, 07:01 AM

Originally posted by musicdog400
I tried the direct out this weekend, and it wasn't bad, but I can do much better using the effects send, or the weber mass out, into the Behringer Ultra-G. Here is a clip:

clip (http://www.oz.net/~markw/2note_mix.mp3) Was the clip with direct out or Weber Mass out? If it's direct out I must say that I definitely did not get that good of a tone when I tried it.

The music is awesome by the way... your clips are always very enjoyable and interesting to listen to.

plumptone

08-30-2006, 07:04 AM

OK folks. I chimed up a few days back about the dramatic (to my ears) difference in my F-50's output levels between channel 1 and 2. Running both gains at approx 1 o'clock I have to crank channel 1 to more than 12 o'clock to get even close to channel 2 at 9 o'clock.

Since then I've done a number of things. I called Mesa and the guy I talked to said that it's normal, but suggested - as did a couple of my brothers here - that I try pre-amp tube swapping. I swapped out, one at a time, all the pre-amp tubes with a known good tube, and this did nothing whatsoever.

So I had a gig last weekend, not a huge room, maybe room for 200. I'm now freaking out. I basically ran out of clean headroom! This simply cannot be normal. I play in a 3 piece, so I'm only competing with drums and bass. The room wasn't big enough to warrant a full mic-up, although we're a loud band.

I spent close to $1700 on this amp (with the custom dress and all), and while I agree that it sounds amazing, it's not loud enough. Am I going deaf?

When I committed to the purchase I had only played it in the store, and it sounded HUGE in there on both clean and overdrive settings. On stage and at rehearsal it's got no balls on channel 1 at all. I should not have to be driving this thing at 75% in the clean channel just to be heard at rehearsals. The main reason I got this amp was to replace my DC-3 in larger rooms, and not have to resort to extension cabs At this point I think the DC-3 can handle it better. (Although running the F-50 through my 2x12 does seem to get the job done nicely - but it kind of defeats the purpose.)

I'd really like to hear some feedback from folks who are actively giggig, not micing up all the time, who can tell me whether or not the experience I'm having is normal.

Thanks. This is SO frustrating!!!

markmann

08-30-2006, 07:22 AM

Originally posted by Surfcaster
...Concerning the Hot Plate, MHO is that the F-Series amps don't really benefit that much from the Hot Plate. My experience is that reducing volume to basement levels with the HP sounded pretty much dead on to simply turning the Master down...

I agree but it depends on what you consider basement levels. I think your statement is true for master levels above 9:30 but I practice at levels below that. Once I get below 9:30 (which is when I feel the f50 starts to rapidly lose tonal quality) a loop volume control or HP help maintain the tone.

hal9000

08-30-2006, 07:24 AM

SuperStrat

08-30-2006, 07:33 AM

Originally posted by plumptone
OK folks. <snip>

I can't imagine having the problems you're talking about... my f50 combo is stupid loud.

Do you have a combo? If not what kind of cab and what speakers are you using.

What guitar/pups do you have?

Are you using effects in front of the amp?

Anything in the loop?

Are you looking for pure squeaky cleans?

You should be able to remedy your problems.....

markmann

08-30-2006, 07:40 AM

Originally posted by plumptone
OK folks. I chimed up a few days back about the dramatic (to my ears) difference in my F-50's output levels between channel 1 and 2. Running both gains at approx 1 o'clock I have to crank channel 1 to more than 12 o'clock to get even close to channel 2 at 9 o'clock.

Since then I've done a number of things. I called Mesa and the guy I talked to said that it's normal, but suggested - as did a couple of my brothers here - that I try pre-amp tube swapping. I swapped out, one at a time, all the pre-amp tubes with a known good tube, and this did nothing whatsoever.

So I had a gig last weekend, not a huge room, maybe room for 200. I'm now freaking out. I basically ran out of clean headroom! This simply cannot be normal. I play in a 3 piece, so I'm only competing with drums and bass. The room wasn't big enough to warrant a full mic-up, although we're a loud band.

I spent close to $1700 on this amp (with the custom dress and all), and while I agree that it sounds amazing, it's not loud enough. Am I going deaf?

When I committed to the purchase I had only played it in the store, and it sounded HUGE in there on both clean and overdrive settings. On stage and at rehearsal it's got no balls on channel 1 at all. I should not have to be driving this thing at 75% in the clean channel just to be heard at rehearsals. The main reason I got this amp was to replace my DC-3 in larger rooms, and not have to resort to extension cabs At this point I think the DC-3 can handle it better. (Although running the F-50 through my 2x12 does seem to get the job done nicely - but it kind of defeats the purpose.)

I'd really like to hear some feedback from folks who are actively giggig, not micing up all the time, who can tell me whether or not the experience I'm having is normal.

Thanks. This is SO frustrating!!! It doesn't sound right that you ran out of clean headroom with an f50. Without hearing your amp here's a comparison that I've made:

Before my f50 I was using a Hiwatt custom 50 which is known as a loud amp with great cleans. I've done side-by-side comparisons with these two and the f50 percieved volume slightly edges out the Hiwatt and you can't ask for more than that.

Also, I don't think the discrepancy between channel volume is extreme depending on your settings, your clean will always be higher than your gain channel. If I were you I'd haul the amp to the store and compare with one on the floor... I know this is crude but at least then you'll be able to hear the difference between two amp's at the same setting.

SuperStrat

08-30-2006, 07:47 AM

Originally posted by markmann
It doesn't sound right that you ran out of clean headroom with an f50. Without hearing your amp here's a comparison that I've made:

Before my f50 I was using a Hiwatt custom 50 which is known as a loud amp with great cleans. I've done side-by-side comparisons with these two and the f50 percieved volume slightly edges out the Hiwatt and you can't ask for more than that.

Also, I don't think the discrepancy between channel volume is extreme depending on your settings, your clean will always be higher than your gain channel. If I were you I'd haul the amp to the store and compare with one on the floor... I know this is crude but at least then you'll be able to hear the difference between two amp's at the same setting.
Sounds right to me...

I will say though, I used to think that the "clean will always be higher than your gain channel", but have since learned that it's not always true. My Budda is the opposite and I'm sure there are likely others. Just thought you might like to know.:)

plumptone

08-30-2006, 08:12 AM

Thanks for the speedy responses you guys - this is such a great place to come for answers. Let me respond to what's been said.

First, Hal. I do not have another set of 6L6s. Besides, I really don't think that's the problem given the astonishing output in channel 2 (which really is ridiculously loud). Generally I prefer to keep the amp coupled to the floor in order to maximize th bass response. I hate the way amps sound when off the floor. And yes, I use the same guitar on both channels, be it strat, tele, or PRS.

Super Strat: It's a combo. Guitars are USA Strat Deluxe w/vintage noiseless, '89 strat plus with lace sensors; tele w/std tele pups, and PRS w/ dragon IIs.

Effects in front and in the loop, but I've eliminated that as the cause.

Not looking for squeaky cleans, I like a little grind, but not too much.

Markmann: I'm actualy OK with the notion that I will have to run the clean channel harder to keep up with the dirty - I've had to do that will all my Boogies over the years. But I've never EVER been in a situation where I have actually been able to run the amp flat out - dimed. I am able to do that with this, and stand in the same room. It's loud, but it is not loud the way the DC-3 is, for example. When I spoke to Boogie, I mentioned the DC-3/F-50 comparison, and he told me that the audible difference in TOTAL output will be minimal, sinc the wattage is so close. He did say that the taper on the output master on the DC-3 and the individual channel masters om the F-50 are different, so the DC-3 comes on strong at a much earlier point in the sweep. But still.

I think the suggestion that I lug the thing down to the store and do an a/b with a floor model is probably a good way to go on this.

To the folks playing out regularly and not micing up - in a typical situation where is your master on channel 1?

How much effect will proximity to back wall have on discernible output? At most gigs I'm forced to get real close to the back wall of the stage to make room for opening acts.

ashjn

08-30-2006, 08:17 AM

Hooking up an extension cab to get more speakers running may also make it easier to hear...

musicdog400

08-30-2006, 09:09 AM

Was the clip with direct out or Weber Mass out?

Weber mass out->Behringer Ultra G. I also had the treble on the mass DI dialed way back.

Thanks for the compliments. I have been trying a really theoretical approach to composing lately, and torturing the HC crowd with the experiments.

I am gonna try to see if I can come up w some software cab sims using the graphic EQ plugin I have. The Ultra-G is nice but has this high end thing going on that reminds me of the Carvin Legacy.

Surfcaster

08-30-2006, 11:05 AM

Originally posted by markmann

I agree but it depends on what you consider basement levels. I think your statement is true for master levels above 9:30 but I practice at levels below that. Once I get below 9:30 (which is when I feel the f50 starts to rapidly lose tonal quality) a loop volume control or HP help maintain the tone.

Hmmm...that's interesting. I very rarely turn my master up above 9:30, so that's where the bulk of my comparisons took place and I did not find the loop volume control or the Weber Mini Mass sounded any better than just turning the master a little lower. But hey, if it works for you, that's what counts...and it seems many other here agree. Maybe I'm just unlucky on this one.

markmann

08-30-2006, 11:06 AM

HAAAAA!!! Your experimental torture sounds pretty good to me!

Actually, I love the way you use space and effects in your songs, very uncluttered and open sounding. The arrangements keep things interesting as does the use of different instuments especially when introduced at various points in during the songs.

Very cool.

Originally posted by musicdog400

Weber mass out->Behringer Ultra G. I also had the treble on the mass DI dialed way back.

Thanks for the compliments. I have been trying a really theoretical approach to composing lately, and torturing the HC crowd with the experiments.

I am gonna try to see if I can come up w some software cab sims using the graphic EQ plugin I have. The Ultra-G is nice but has this high end thing going on that reminds me of the Carvin Legacy.

Iced Tea

08-30-2006, 03:52 PM

Originally posted by plumptone
Thanks for the speedy responses you guys - this is such a great place to come for answers. Let me respond to what's been said.

First, Hal. I do not have another set of 6L6s. Besides, I really don't think that's the problem given the astonishing output in channel 2 (which really is ridiculously loud). Generally I prefer to keep the amp coupled to the floor in order to maximize th bass response. I hate the way amps sound when off the floor. And yes, I use the same guitar on both channels, be it strat, tele, or PRS.

Super Strat: It's a combo. Guitars are USA Strat Deluxe w/vintage noiseless, '89 strat plus with lace sensors; tele w/std tele pups, and PRS w/ dragon IIs.

Effects in front and in the loop, but I've eliminated that as the cause.

Not looking for squeaky cleans, I like a little grind, but not too much.

Markmann: I'm actualy OK with the notion that I will have to run the clean channel harder to keep up with the dirty - I've had to do that will all my Boogies over the years. But I've never EVER been in a situation where I have actually been able to run the amp flat out - dimed. I am able to do that with this, and stand in the same room. It's loud, but it is not loud the way the DC-3 is, for example. When I spoke to Boogie, I mentioned the DC-3/F-50 comparison, and he told me that the audible difference in TOTAL output will be minimal, sinc the wattage is so close. He did say that the taper on the output master on the DC-3 and the individual channel masters om the F-50 are different, so the DC-3 comes on strong at a much earlier point in the sweep. But still.

I think the suggestion that I lug the thing down to the store and do an a/b with a floor model is probably a good way to go on this.

To the folks playing out regularly and not micing up - in a typical situation where is your master on channel 1?

How much effect will proximity to back wall have on discernible output? At most gigs I'm forced to get real close to the back wall of the stage to make room for opening acts.

Hi Plumptone. I have an F-50 purchased new in May I gig with regularly and seldom mic. I have had none of the problems you have had. In fact, my clean channel is consistenly LOUDER than the distortion channel (I do keep my gain relatively low at around 9/10). Even at a recent gig in a large open hanger I did not have my master above 11:00 on either channel, and I play with a loud drummer in our 3 piece. My F-50 is bone-rattling loud, and I have no issue with losing clean head-room (I use PRS Custom 24s, a Strat, and a Les Paul and/or McCarty). I'd have to think you have an issue. I would go back to the store and A/B it with another as some as suggested. Good luck and do please let us know!

Iced Tea

08-30-2006, 04:05 PM

Originally posted by Lt_Core
Has anyone used Eurotubes replacement tube kits with their F-50? I would like to have an extra set of tubes on hand since we're gigging alot these days.

They have a regular retube kit and a high-gain retube kit. He mentions that you do not need the high-gain kit if you're not dime'ing your drive channel. Thoughts on Eurotubes? Thanks!

https://ssl.eurotubes.com/cart/index.php?page=view_products&category_id=6&sub_category_id=34

Hi LT - yes I have the high-gain Eurotube replacement kit from Bob. I can't say it made a huge difference but I do think the distortion is smoother (as is the case usually with JJs). The clean is also very good. Over-all I am quite happy but do not look for a significant sound difference.

Goldwing

08-31-2006, 10:49 AM

Hi everyone!

It's been a while since my last post. I would like to share with you my experiences with multieffects and my F50.

Finally I decided to buy the BOSS GT-8 instead of the POD, the final decision was pretty much because the posibilities of the Gt8 to be configured and controlled in more ways that the POD can.

Now, first my impressions so far, I hope it could be useful for you:

I've tried the GT8 and the 4cm with my F50 and not noticed any difference between that and running in it in front of my amp. It's a little better sounding if you running exclusively trough the fx loop but then you are loosing the inner loop capabilities and posibilities of the Gt8 so I've decided (so far) that I would sacrifice a little in that issue.

I'm running a Electro Harmonix Bigg Muff and Electricc Mistress in the loop of the GT8. I just turned on the effect that the song is gonna need and then I can control all the song sounds with just one tap in my Gt8 wich is great!

Now a doubt:

I'm having a doubt about what to do now. Should I go for a CFX4 from Axess to control my amp's channels? or Could the GT8 (with its feature of amp changing chanel) work with the GRX4 (also from axess) and with a custom-cable and the 4 loop in the GRX4 used as relay, change my amp channels?

What do you think?

cheers!

hal9000

08-31-2006, 12:29 PM

Originally posted by Goldwing
Hi everyone!
<snip>

Now a doubt:

I'm having a doubt about what to do now. Should I go for a CFX4 from Axess to control my amp's channels? or Could the GT8 (with its feature of amp changing chanel) work with the GRX4 (also from axess) and with a custom-cable and the 4 loop in the GRX4 used as relay, change my amp channels?

What do you think?

cheers! Goldwing, do you plan to use the GRX4 to switch your external pedals? If you really want to isolate the pedals, then the GRX4 will do that very well and could change engage Contour, with the GT-8 choosing CH1/CH2.

I would be inclined to use the CFX4 because it could be located right on the amp, so the cable run will be short and easy to hook up. Also, making the cable will be a lot easier since you don't have to split the functionality between the GRX4 and GT-8.

Goldwing

08-31-2006, 01:26 PM

Originally posted by hal9000
Goldwing, do you plan to use the GRX4 to switch your external pedals? If you really want to isolate the pedals, then the GRX4 will do that very well and could change engage Contour, with the GT-8 choosing CH1/CH2.

I would be inclined to use the CFX4 because it could be located right on the amp, so the cable run will be short and easy to hook up. Also, making the cable will be a lot easier since you don't have to split the functionality between the GRX4 and GT-8.

Hi HAL!

Well I honestly don't know.

In one hand, the GRX4 is more adaptable if I decide in the future to change to 4cm or running the GT8 in the loop of my F50.

But I think that you question made my mind; I mean, its clear for me that the distortions and overdrives of the GT8 are not close to my F50 or a stompbox. So altough I'm currently using the GT8 for overdrive I think that I'll soon buy a BOSS SD-1 as overdrive (and sell my actual BluesBreaker 2 wich its great with humbuckers but pretty poor with my tex-mex single-coils). Anyway I think that I might not need more than one stompbox each time so I don't see much need of the GRX4 to switch my pedals wich also are already in the loop of the GT8 so the "tone quest" that the GRX4 will imply would not apply with this way of thinking.

And also, as you said the implementation will be a lot easier with the CFX4 wich is important I think.

thnks!!!

Rodimus Prime

08-31-2006, 02:36 PM

Hey f50'ers. I've been seriously considering ditching my deville and getting an f50... for obvious reasons. I'm just a bit nervous about the clean tone.
anyways, I have a question for SuperStrat. I'm generally a strat/tele guy. I love to do the blues thing alot but i want to rock to. You have some clips on your site with amazing stratty tones. Are they generally done with the f50 or some other amps. Which ones are the f50?

I've been looking for some sound clips that i can relate to but they are either metal or elevator music of sorts. Yours was the closest to what i want to hear the f50 being able to handle.
thanks

SuperStrat

08-31-2006, 02:41 PM

Originally posted by Rodimus Prime
Hey f50'ers. I've been seriously considering ditching my deville and getting an f50... for obvious reasons. I'm just a bit nervous about the clean tone.
anyways, I have a question for SuperStrat. I'm generally a strat/tele guy. I love to do the blues thing alot but i want to rock to. You have some clips on your site with amazing stratty tones. Are they generally done with the f50 or some other amps. Which ones are the f50?

I've been looking for some sound clips that i can relate to but they are either metal or elevator music of sorts. Yours was the closest to what i want to hear the f50 being able to handle.
thanks

Which clip?

None are the F-50... I've been thinking of recording it soon, though. Let me know what you want to hear -- maybe I can get to it next week.

eSoTeRiK

08-31-2006, 02:46 PM

Originally posted by Rodimus Prime
Hey f50'ers. I've been seriously considering ditching my deville and getting an f50... for obvious reasons. I'm just a bit nervous about the clean tone.
anyways, I have a question for SuperStrat. I'm generally a strat/tele guy. I love to do the blues thing alot but i want to rock to. You have some clips on your site with amazing stratty tones. Are they generally done with the f50 or some other amps. Which ones are the f50?

I've been looking for some sound clips that i can relate to but they are either metal or elevator music of sorts. Yours was the closest to what i want to hear the f50 being able to handle.
thanks

Although I do not own an F-50 (yet... it's on order! :love: ) I played one at a store for about an hour (before I forced myself to stop, or I would have bought it on the spot). I fell in love with the clean channel. One of the best sounding cleans I've heard from a modern amp.

I'm sure someone here can tell you more. I'm very impressed, I can tell you. Can't wait for it to get here. :cool:

Rodimus Prime

08-31-2006, 02:54 PM

yeah, i rally enjoyed the clean channel but there were just some nice glissening highs missing. I've since learned about the bright switch so i have to try that.
Super strat, i'd like to maybe hear some smooth jazz blues ala srv or jm. Since i know the f50 can live in the rock world, i want to see if it can live in my world of sexy music as well.

SuperStrat

08-31-2006, 02:59 PM

Originally posted by Rodimus Prime
yeah, i rally enjoyed the clean channel but there were just some nice glissening highs missing. I've since learned about the bright switch so i have to try that.
Super strat, i'd like to maybe hear some smooth jazz blues ala srv or jm. Since i know the f50 can live in the rock world, i want to see if it can live in my world of sexy music as well.

That might be a tall order... it's outside my comfort zone for sure.:D

markmann

09-01-2006, 06:09 AM

Originally posted by Rodimus Prime
Hey f50'ers. I've been seriously considering ditching my deville and getting an f50... for obvious reasons. I'm just a bit nervous about the clean tone.
anyways, I have a question for SuperStrat. I'm generally a strat/tele guy. I love to do the blues thing alot but i want to rock to. You have some clips on your site with amazing stratty tones. Are they generally done with the f50 or some other amps. Which ones are the f50?

I've been looking for some sound clips that i can relate to but they are either metal or elevator music of sorts. Yours was the closest to what i want to hear the f50 being able to handle.
thanks I can't imagine anyone not liking the f50 clean channel. That said, I still think a Strat/Twin combo is one of the best clean sounds ever created but since I've been playing through an f50 I wouldn't trade it for anything else. The mere fact that this amp has awesome clean AND fantastic gain is a powerful package.

FYI, I've never played my Strat more than since I've owned my f50. I don't have any problem doing Jazz, blues, country or rock.

markmann

09-01-2006, 06:18 AM

Originally posted by Rodimus Prime
yeah, i rally enjoyed the clean channel but there were just some nice glissening highs missing. I've since learned about the bright switch so i have to try that.
Super strat, i'd like to maybe hear some smooth jazz blues ala srv or jm. Since i know the f50 can live in the rock world, i want to see if it can live in my world of sexy music as well.
Unfotunately I don't have clips but Jazz/blues is my forte and the f50 serves me well.

I assume jm=John Mayer? If so I think it's more important to have the right Strat.

Rodimus Prime

09-01-2006, 08:24 AM

yeah, i have no issues in the "right strat" dept. I get fairly sexy mayer tones with my tweed BJr + external cab fairly easily. I love that little amp. It's just the deville, man! I just havn't gotten a sound where i'm like "oh thank God i have this tone". I'm always almost there and i'm tired of it. I'm tired of justifying its limitations and living with it. give me TONE!

GTM

09-01-2006, 09:23 AM

Originally posted by plumptone

I think the suggestion that I lug the thing down to the store and do an a/b with a floor model is probably a good way to go on this.

To the folks playing out regularly and not micing up - in a typical situation where is your master on channel 1?

I gig regularly with my F-50 and never mic it. Yes I've noticed the clean chann. is lower that the lead chann. Tyoically I have the clean gain on 10:30 and the master at around 11:00. The lead chann is usually set with the gain at 9:30 and the master at 9:30.

I had a similar problem where the entire amp seemed to let lower in volume. I brought it back to he store (GC) and insisted they set it up next to a floor model and compare. They did not do that but instead swapped the power tubes and they admitted the amp was louder at the same setting with the new tubes which they agve me for free. Then it happened again several months later. I went back to the same store. This time they sent the amp to the repair tech who said they was nothing wrong. So I have resigned myself to the fact that it eats up ower tubes and I replace them every 4 - 6 months. I suggest you try a new set of power tubes. I wouldn't hurt you to have a set of spare anyway.
Good luck!

hal9000

09-01-2006, 10:10 AM

Originally posted by GTM

I gig regularly with my F-50 and never mic it. Yes I've noticed the clean chann. is lower that the lead chann. Tyoically I have the clean gain on 10:30 and the master at around 11:00. The lead chann is usually set with the gain at 9:30 and the master at 9:30.

I had a similar problem where the entire amp seemed to let lower in volume. I brought it back to he store (GC) and insisted they set it up next to a floor model and compare. They did not do that but instead swapped the power tubes and they admitted the amp was louder at the same setting with the new tubes which they agve me for free. Then it happened again several months later. I went back to the same store. This time they sent the amp to the repair tech who said they was nothing wrong. So I have resigned myself to the fact that it eats up ower tubes and I replace them every 4 - 6 months. I suggest you try a new set of power tubes. I wouldn't hurt you to have a set of spare anyway.
Good luck! That doesn't sound right to me at all. I hate to say it, but unless you wanted to send the amp back to Mesa for a check over, you may be a good candidate for an adjustable bias mod. My power tubes last a long time (> 2 years) with pretty heavy use through practice and gigs.

Surfcaster

09-01-2006, 10:15 AM

Originally posted by markmann
The mere fact that this amp has awesome clean AND fantastic gain is a powerful package.

That is definitely the F50's strong point and it's exactly why I chose it over both Fender and Marshall which seem to only be able to do one really well. I'm just surprised more people haven't discovered that.

plumptone

09-01-2006, 11:51 AM

Regarding my issues with the clean channel's output on my new F-50. Thanks to all for the input, advice and suggestions. I come here often, and I post infrequently, but when I do, I know I'll get solid advice from you guys.

So I took the F-50 down to the local GC at lunch today, and it's fine. I did an A/B test with the in-store F-50, and the output on both channels was identical. After playing for almost 30 years I think I'm finally going deaf.

My solution going forward shall be two-fold. (1) I'm going to be using a 2x12 extension cab in the mid/larger rooms. (2)For small room applications and situations where I'll be mic'd up, I have to get it either angled back, or up of the floor (maybe on a road case ro something like that) so I can hear myself.

I'm relieved that there's no problem with the unit, but a little disappointed that it's not as loud as I hoped. One thing the GC guys suggested was to bring up the gain a little more on the clean channel. It seemed to work pretty well. I'm basically a single coil guy, so it doesn't get too gritty if I keep channel 1 gain below 3 o'clock. Gigging tonight, and I'll use the extension cab and see how that goes. Cheers to one and all!

Surfcaster

09-01-2006, 12:31 PM

Originally posted by plumptone
I'm relieved that there's no problem with the unit, but a little disappointed that it's not as loud as I hoped. One thing the GC guys suggested was to bring up the gain a little more on the clean channel. It seemed to work pretty well. I'm basically a single coil guy, so it doesn't get too gritty if I keep channel 1 gain below 3 o'clock. Gigging tonight, and I'll use the extension cab and see how that goes. Cheers to one and all!

Yeah...that occured to me yesterday when was playing my F50...that maybe you could turn the gain up a bit. But I did notice that most of the volume increase occurs on the first half of the pot's range. Once you get up to noon or a little higher it's not so much more volume you get as compression and then break up. But if you rarely turn it up past 10 oclock or so (which is seriously loud if you're not gigging) you'd think there's lots more volume on tap than there really is.

markmann

09-01-2006, 01:49 PM

Originally posted by plumptone
Regarding my issues with the clean channel's output on my new F-50. Thanks to all for the input, advice and suggestions. I come here often, and I post infrequently, but when I do, I know I'll get solid advice from you guys.

So I took the F-50 down to the local GC at lunch today, and it's fine. I did an A/B test with the in-store F-50, and the output on both channels was identical. After playing for almost 30 years I think I'm finally going deaf.

My solution going forward shall be two-fold. (1) I'm going to be using a 2x12 extension cab in the mid/larger rooms. (2)For small room applications and situations where I'll be mic'd up, I have to get it either angled back, or up of the floor (maybe on a road case ro something like that) so I can hear myself.

I'm relieved that there's no problem with the unit, but a little disappointed that it's not as loud as I hoped. One thing the GC guys suggested was to bring up the gain a little more on the clean channel. It seemed to work pretty well. I'm basically a single coil guy, so it doesn't get too gritty if I keep channel 1 gain below 3 o'clock. Gigging tonight, and I'll use the extension cab and see how that goes. Cheers to one and all! I'm glad you got that sorted out. So now that you know that the amp is OK you're obviously thinking about speakers which is one of the logical next steps. In my case I use either one or two 1x12 wide body cab's with c90's depending on the situation. During a rehersal I use only one cab. If I need more percieved volume I use both and twist them so that they're aimed at different angles (15-20 degrees will do). By dispersing the sound the amp sounds bigger and is percieved to be louder.

Also, single coil pup's are generally low output as you already know. If all else fails new pup's are a cheap mod to try. I've got hotter pup's in my Strat and they ROCK.

plumptone

09-01-2006, 02:10 PM

Originally posted by markmann
I'm glad you got that sorted out. So now that you know that the amp is OK you're obviously thinking about speakers which is one of the logical next steps. In my case I use either one or two 1x12 wide body cab's with c90's depending on the situation. During a rehersal I use only one cab. If I need more percieved volume I use both and twist them so that they're aimed at different angles (15-20 degrees will do). By dispersing the sound the amp sounds bigger and is percieved to be louder.

Also, single coil pup's are generally low output as you already know. If all else fails new pup's are a cheap mod to try. I've got hotter pup's in my Strat and they ROCK.

I'm definitely not in the market for new speakers right now - the missus would kill me after dropping over $1700 on the amp. I have an OLD fender 2x12 open-back prototype cab that does quite nicely. It's a vertical configuration, which is nice because it's coupled to the stage, but also gives you some noise a little closer to ear level. It's worked very well for me in the past - I was just hoping not to have to tote it around with me. The other option I have is to use the speaker in my DC-3, or alternatively run a stereo set-up with that amp as well as the F-50. I have tried that, and although it's a pain in the ass to set it up and get the levels right, it sounds great with a light stereo chorus and delay. The old Fender cab sounds way bigger on its own than that set-up though.

The fender cab came to me compliments of my drummer who used to work at the Fender Fullerton Shop in the 80s where he was an R&D guy with Rogers drums (who used to be owned by Fender). He's got tons of very cool old stuff.

Here's a pic of that cab along with my old DC-3:

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k18/plumpton1/Gear.jpg

markmann

09-02-2006, 08:10 AM

Originally posted by plumptone

I'm definitely not in the market for new speakers right now - the missus would kill me after dropping over $1700 on the amp. I have an OLD fender 2x12 open-back prototype cab that does quite nicely. It's a vertical configuration, which is nice because it's coupled to the stage, but also gives you some noise a little closer to ear level. It's worked very well for me in the past - I was just hoping not to have to tote it around with me. The other option I have is to use the speaker in my DC-3, or alternatively run a stereo set-up with that amp as well as the F-50. I have tried that, and although it's a pain in the ass to set it up and get the levels right, it sounds great with a light stereo chorus and delay. The old Fender cab sounds way bigger on its own than that set-up though.

The fender cab came to me compliments of my drummer who used to work at the Fender Fullerton Shop in the 80s where he was an R&D guy with Rogers drums (who used to be owned by Fender). He's got tons of very cool old stuff.

Here's a pic of that cab along with my old DC-3:

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k18/plumpton1/Gear.jpg That Fender cab looks cool but it is a beast, bet it weighs a few pounds too. I don't blame you for not wanting to haul it. I wasn't implying that you should buy speakers, just letting you know how I make my two speaker setup sound bigger. Some guys never think to aim them in different directions or separate them which can make a huge difference.

Lt_Core

09-02-2006, 01:46 PM

When tubes die, do they flat out just stop working or cut in and out? I was in my garage testing out some new pedals (I never use the amp in the garage, by the way) and towards the end of playing for 30 minutes or so my F-50 starting sputtering a bit, the stopped altogether :(

I changed guitars, cables, etc. and still nothing. Then I brought the amp inside and it's working again. Could it be a power issue in my garage? Are the tubes starting to go? This is my first tube amp (bought new in April, 2006) so I'm not sure what to expect. I'm going to order a replacement kit from Eurotubes this week just in case.

Tommi Inkila

09-02-2006, 03:23 PM

If the power tubes are getting naturally old the symptom is lower volume and muddier sound. This happens gradually. If there's something breaking then it's hard to say what kind of sounds it will give. Might be quiet, might be the biggest boom.

Preamp tubes normally starts to squeek or hiss when they're getting old.

I ordered some TAD (Tube Amp Doctor) tubes, both power and preamp tubes... unfortunately I won't be able to record them with yet. My initial idea is to start testing before we enter on studio (probably around January) so that I'll know what to use. Heh, I know it's pretty soon, but that's me :)

mattleesc

09-02-2006, 11:48 PM

Originally posted by Joeytpg

you can run your combo with a cab...... it's no problem :) try it and let us know

how do i go about doing this? so the sound would be coming from both the combo's speaker and the extension cab?

anyway im having a problem with the uber harshness with the contour channel. gets worst with every increase in volume. any cure for this? new speakers?

Kevin@Tone-Jam.

09-03-2006, 05:43 PM

My band is playing our first gig on wednesday, and all I'll be using is my F-50, and a few pedals. You can check out our tunes on myspace.

Brandy's Hand (http://myspace.com/brandyshand)

UsrName

09-04-2006, 09:56 AM

Originally posted by mattleesc

anyway im having a problem with the uber harshness with the contour channel. gets worst with every increase in volume. any cure for this? new speakers?

Hey mattleesc, I'm having the same problem with harshness on my F-30 with countour. I've got the V30 in mine. It was suggested to try different speakers with less harsh high end.

I have tried an MXR 6-band EQ in the loop, which helped, but to my ears, the tone suffers a bit when doing this. Plus, it's one more pedal to add to your tap dancing routine, which might be a pain live and would defeat the purpose of the the amp's simplicity.

If you find a better solution, please let me know. Like some of the other guys have said, I would be first in line for an F-series +, which would have an onboard EQ. Dare to dream. :)

stheeg

09-05-2006, 06:41 PM

Hi. Im new here. I have an f 50 head for 2 years now and i do like it a lot.
my question is, when do i start thinking of replacing my tubes?

ive used the amp once a week for about 2-3 hours at a time for 2 years. so i figure they have 300 hours or so on them

thanks for reading this! look forward to participating here!:wave:

ashjn

09-05-2006, 06:43 PM

I'm not sure hour-wise, but you still should be fine. The guy @ Boogie told me if you play 1-2 hours a day, 5 days a week, you should replace every year...

stheeg

09-06-2006, 08:54 AM

cool. thanks a lot for the reply!

i have another question. i have 4 (12m70) celestions in twin 2x12 cabinets (ss cabs). the sound is too bassy. my bass dial is on below 9 oclock.
what im getting at is: I WANT NEW SPEAKERS.
any suggestions?

i play hard modern sounding rock. i love warmth and clarity, but with plenty of well balanced thump. i think i want either V30s or C90s...but im leaning toward the C90s because i recently tried V30s and they sounded kinda harsh in the highs.
but that could just mean the amp needed tweaking?

thanks in advance. all advice is appreciated!

hal9000

09-06-2006, 09:39 AM

Originally posted by stheeg
cool. thanks a lot for the reply!

i have another question. i have 4 (12m70) celestions in twin 2x12 cabinets (ss cabs). the sound is too bassy. my bass dial is on below 9 oclock.
what im getting at is: I WANT NEW SPEAKERS.
any suggestions?

i play hard modern sounding rock. i love warmth and clarity, but with plenty of well balanced thump. i think i want either V30s or C90s...but im leaning toward the C90s because i recently tried V30s and they sounded kinda harsh in the highs.
but that could just mean the amp needed tweaking?

thanks in advance. all advice is appreciated! Stheeg, welcome to the forum and the F-series Brotherhood! :)

To answer your question, how about a mix of both speakers? I've wanted to get the new Avatar Premier Vintage cab with a Hellatone 60Ls and a CL80 mixed because those two speakers together have a great mix of bass, clarity, and tone. The Hellatone 60Ls is an English-made Vintage 30 aged by Avatar with extended bass response. Since you already have your cabs, www.avatarspeakers.com can sell you the speakers cheap.

theduck

09-06-2006, 03:34 PM

Hi folks! I've recently taken ownership of a used Mesa Boogie F-50 head. I love the character and flexibility of this amp, but I'm having a little problem.

I'm running into a Rocktron Velocity 1x12 cabinet (portability is a big factor for me) and I'm experienceing some strange kind of clipping distortion on the clean channel, even with the gain pulled back to about 11:00. I thought it might be the cabinet, so I plugged in some headphones and muted the speaker. Sure enough, that nasty analog sounding clipping was still there.

Has anyone experienced this problem? A possible bad preamp tube, bad pot or faulty circuit. I'd love to get some advice on diagnosing the issue before taking it in for service.

Oh, where's the serial number on the F-50 head?

Thanks in advance. Great thread by the way!

-Rick

hal9000

09-07-2006, 06:37 AM

F-100 Heavy Clip in Contour (http://www.64graphics.com/clips/hal9000F-100HeavyContour.mp3)

I used my Ravelle's bridge SD Custom for the rhythm parts and the neck SD '59 for the solo parts. My F-100 was set for 50 W on Contour through the 8 Ohm jack for a darker sound. The settings were the same for rhythm and lead.

I'd like to know what you guys think of the tone and how you think it was recorded, especially with concern to mic type and placement. BTW, I intentionally recorded a dark tone.

I'll post the full rig and setting once I get a few good guesses.

SuperStrat

09-07-2006, 06:44 AM

Question for Neil (or anyone that has tried it);

Have you ever used the recording output as the source for the wet in a wet/dry setup?

Give me the pros and cons, please.:)

Thanks!

hal9000

09-07-2006, 06:51 AM

Originally posted by theduck
Hi folks! I've recently taken ownership of a used Mesa Boogie F-50 head. I love the character and flexibility of this amp, but I'm having a little problem.

I'm running into a Rocktron Velocity 1x12 cabinet (portability is a big factor for me) and I'm experienceing some strange kind of clipping distortion on the clean channel, even with the gain pulled back to about 11:00. I thought it might be the cabinet, so I plugged in some headphones and muted the speaker. Sure enough, that nasty analog sounding clipping was still there.

Has anyone experienced this problem? A possible bad preamp tube, bad pot or faulty circuit. I'd love to get some advice on diagnosing the issue before taking it in for service.

Oh, where's the serial number on the F-50 head?

Thanks in advance. Great thread by the way!

-Rick Hi theduck! Welcome to the forum and the F-series Brotherhood. :)

I'm sorry to hear about the problem you're having. Have you eliminated all the extraneous pieces of your rig that don't pertain to the problem at hand? If not, make sure your guitar, cable, power, and speaker connection are good.

I'm not sure what you mean by analog distortion since that term covers a lot of territory. Technically, your amp is supposed to provide analog distortion, especially on the red channel. :) Perhaps your guitar is simply overdriving the input with high output humbuckers? If humbuckers are the problem, simply turn the gain down to around 9:00 and adjust to taste. You’ll have to raise the master to get the same output level for lower gain. You could also have a tube problem as well. Since the recording output works, but you still hear the problem, you've ruled out the power section. Good job. So, that leaves the preamp. Most likely V1 (the input tube - see the manual's tube task chart) is the culprit. If you have a known-good tube, check it out in V1. Or, if you are willing to experiment, try some of the other preamp tubes to see if they work better in V1.

So,
1) Eliminate all unnecessary connections.
2) Play with the amp's gain control on the clean channel to see if that fixes the problem. 3) If one and two don't work, try swapping tubes around until you find a suitable replacement.
4) If none of this fixes the problem, call Mesa.

Good luck.

John Denver

09-07-2006, 06:52 AM

A quick noob question.....

I just picked up an F50, and i can't believe my ears. The tone is amazing on both clean and crunch channels. This is my first tube amp, and i had a question. My power tubes seem to be a little crooked, nothing major, just not exactly straight up and down. Is this something i should worry about? Could the sockets be damaged, or are the tubes just not inserted correctly? I have played on other tube amps, and noticed the power tubes are not always straight up and down....although those were older amps. I bought my F50 new, and am wondering if i got an abused one. Sorry for the probably stupid question....i tried the search function and couldn't get any info.

Thanks

hal9000

09-07-2006, 06:59 AM

Originally posted by SuperStrat
Question for Neil (or anyone that has tried it);

Have you ever used the recording output as the source for the wet in a wet/dry setup?

Give me the pros and cons, please.:)

Thanks! John, I have used the recording output for wet/dry, but I didn't much care for the results compared to my Hot Plate's line out or my Behringer Ultra-G. The recording output is taken right after the FX loop, so it doesn't include the power amp's tonal contribution. Also, it has a built-in cab sim which is too dark IMO. With suitable EQ from a processor, I'm quite sure I could get something pleasing, but I'm really happy with the Hot Plate's output for now.

So, as far as easy setup, the recording output would probably work very well. I would just like to have some EQ to correct for the cab sim's dark nature. I'm assuming of course that you're running into guitar cabs. :)

hal9000

09-07-2006, 07:03 AM

Originally posted by John Denver
A quick noob question.....

I just picked up an F50, and i can't believe my ears. The tone is amazing on both clean and crunch channels. This is my first tube amp, and i had a question. My power tubes seem to be a little crooked, nothing major, just not exactly straight up and down. Is this something i should worry about? Could the sockets be damaged, or are the tubes just not inserted correctly? I have played on other tube amps, and noticed the power tubes are not always straight up and down....although those were older amps. I bought my F50 new, and am wondering if i got an abused one. Sorry for the probably stupid question....i tried the search function and couldn't get any info.

Thanks Welcome to the forum and the F-series Brotherhood John Denver! :)

The tube socket should allow the tubes to sit pretty straight up and down. I would just make sure the 6L6s are fully seated into the sockets (the amp should be off and cool before you re-seat the tubes). As long as there is a good mechanical connection between the socket and tube, and the socket is securely mounted to the chassis, you shouldn't have anything to worry about. BTW, a picture is worth a thousand words. :)

SuperStrat

09-07-2006, 07:05 AM

Originally posted by hal9000
John, I have used the recording output for wet/dry, but I didn't much care for the results compared to my Hot Plate's line out or my Behringer Ultra-G. The recording output is taken right after the FX loop, so it doesn't include the power amp's tonal contribution. Also, it has a built-in cab sim which is too dark IMO. With suitable EQ from a processor, I'm quite sure I could get something pleasing, but I'm really happy with the Hot Plate's output for now.

So, as far as easy setup, the recording output would probably work very well. I would just like to have some EQ to correct for the cab sim's dark nature. I'm assuming of course that you're running into guitar cabs. :)

Yeah, I'd be using a 2x12 cab for the wet and the combo for the dry. I've got myself into a situation (not a bad one by any stretch) of having too many options and trying to get the best compact rig I can get away with.

I have a hotplate... I'll give it a try. As usual, I don't have all the pieces in one place.:mad:

Thanks!!!

John Denver

09-07-2006, 07:27 AM

Thanks Hal.....i would have provided a photo, but my digital camera is currently out of commission. When removing the tubes, i just pull straight down on them correct? Do i do anything with those two metallic loops that are on either side of the tube at the socket base? Sorry again for the stupid questions.

hal9000

09-07-2006, 07:33 AM

Originally posted by John Denver
Thanks Hal.....i would have provided a photo, but my digital camera is currently out of commission. When removing the tubes, i just pull straight down on them correct? Do i do anything with those two metallic loops that are on either side of the tube at the socket base? Sorry again for the stupid questions. You're welcome.

IMO, there is no such thing as a stupid question. If it's important enough for you to ask, then it's worthy of comment. :)

Yes, tubes are inserted and removed vertically in the F-50 in alignment with the socket. If you take the tube out, you can rock it slightly back and forth to get it started, but never twist it. The tube has an alignment flange in the middle bottom that you'll see if you take a tube out.

The two metal flanges are to hold the tube(s) in place since they are upside down. You can slightly separate them to make tube extraction easier. But, make sure to pinch them in a bit before tube insertion so they grip tight enough to hold the tube.

stheeg

09-07-2006, 09:15 AM

thanks for the replies everybody. thanks for creating this great thread! i

Surfcaster

09-07-2006, 10:11 AM

Originally posted by hal9000
You're welcome.

IMO, there is no such thing as a stupid question. If it's important enough for you to ask, then it's worthy of comment. :)

Yes, tubes are inserted and removed vertically in the F-50 in alignment with the socket. If you take the tube out, you can rock it slightly back and forth to get it started, but never twist it. The tube has an alignment flange in the middle bottom that you'll see if you take a tube out.

The two metal flanges are to hold the tube(s) in place since they are upside down. You can slightly separate them to make tube extraction easier. But, make sure to pinch them in a bit before tube insertion so they grip tight enough to hold the tube.

Rather than just pulling the tubes out and putting them back in you might first try just pushing on them a bit...they might not be in all the way, which might be why they don't look straight.

Edit: Oops...meant to quote the original post by John Denver, not Hal9000s.

Surfcaster

09-07-2006, 10:24 AM

Originally posted by theduck
Hi folks! I've recently taken ownership of a used Mesa Boogie F-50 head. I love the character and flexibility of this amp, but I'm having a little problem.

I'm running into a Rocktron Velocity 1x12 cabinet (portability is a big factor for me) and I'm experienceing some strange kind of clipping distortion on the clean channel, even with the gain pulled back to about 11:00. I thought it might be the cabinet, so I plugged in some headphones and muted the speaker. Sure enough, that nasty analog sounding clipping was still there.

Has anyone experienced this problem? A possible bad preamp tube, bad pot or faulty circuit. I'd love to get some advice on diagnosing the issue before taking it in for service.

Oh, where's the serial number on the F-50 head?

Thanks in advance. Great thread by the way!

-Rick

First of all, I think the headphone out sounds lousy (IMHO), so don't use that as your only means of checking whether it's the amp or the speaker. I'd recommend trying another cab if you can...even if it means taking it in to a music store to do it.

And it could be either a tube or a pot...I had an issue with a pot on mine...it got knocked from the front and made the housing come loose. Try doing a push/pull comparison on the pots to see if one of them is noticeably looser with more play than the others (they will naturally have some play, but it should be minimal). I found that I could hear the noise through the amp by playing with the culprit pot once I located it. Then you just have to remove the chassis and bend the tabs back on the pot housing...problem fixed.

To check for a tube problem you can tap lightly on the tubes (preamp and power amp) with a pencil. If a tube has gone bad, it may make a noise when doing this (again, a little noise is normal, but a lot of noise or a nasty noise is not). Or you can just buy a 12ax7 tube and try swapping it out with the preamp tubes one by one and see if that makes any difference. Start with V1 and V2.

However, if I were you I'd probably just call Mesa Tech support and describe your issue to them. They are very good at trouble shooting over the phone (that's how I discovered my faulty pot). And not only that, they sent me a replacement pot at no charge (even though I was the one who messed it up) just in case I couldn't fix the one...which I did, so now I have a spare!! :cool:

Whatever you end up doing, definitely call Mesa before sending it anywhere for service. I think a lot of issues can be resolved that way with little to no cost with the amp never leaving your home! :thu:

markmann

09-08-2006, 09:17 AM

Originally posted by hal9000
F-100 Heavy Clip in Contour (http://www.64graphics.com/hal9000F-100HeavyContour.mp3)

I used my Ravelle's bridge SD Custom for the rhythm parts and the neck SD '59 for the solo parts. My F-100 was set for 50 W on Contour through the 8 Ohm jack for a darker sound. The settings were the same for rhythm and lead.

I'd like to know what you guys think of the tone and how you think it was recorded, especially with concern to mic type and placement. BTW, I intentionally recorded a dark tone.

I'll post the full rig and setting once I get a few good guesses.
However it was done it sounds good. I wish I could compare with the unrecorded sound but since I can't here goes:
The rhythm part is stereo hard panned left-right and either close mic'd or di'd. No guess on the type of mic.
The lead part was either close mic'd with rev/delay or close+dist mic'd with rev.
I'm afraid that's the best I can do.

hal9000

09-08-2006, 09:21 AM

Originally posted by markmann
However it was done it sounds good. I wish I could compare with the unrecorded sound but since I can't here goes:
The rhythm part is stereo hard panned left-right and either close mic'd or di'd. No guess on the type of mic.
The lead part was either close mic'd with rev/delay or close+dist mic'd with rev.
I'm afraid that's the best I can do. Thanks Markmann. :)

Check out my thread on the subject: http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1367180

Rodimus Prime

09-08-2006, 09:38 AM

I guess whats alice about it, to me, is partly the bone crushing tone. It is dark, yeah, but its also the riff.
you do this chromatic blues scale after the first chord and then on the next turn you do this jerry bend on the low string. Then the jerry/layne harmonies that are so melodic and cool. I've listened to it serveral times over again just because it feels so good. Nice writing! Can't wait to hear more!

You used your line6 pod live for this? why didn't you use the f100 amp gain?

hal9000

09-08-2006, 09:44 AM

Originally posted by Rodimus Prime
I guess whats alice about it, to me, is partly the bone crushing tone. It is dark, yeah, but its also the riff.
you do this chromatic blues scale after the first chord and then on the next turn you do this jerry bend on the low string. Then the jerry/layne harmonies that are so melodic and cool. I've listened to it serveral times over again just because it feels so good. Nice writing! Can't wait to hear more!

You used your line6 pod live for this? why didn't you use the f100 amp gain? This is my setup:

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y34/afraiddave/hal9000F-100DirectRecordingRig.png

The PODxt Live is only for cab sim and tape echo. My F-100 is the tone generator. :)

Thanks for the kind words. I really like the way the song sounds so far.

theduck

09-08-2006, 11:40 AM

Originally posted by Surfcaster

First of all, I think the headphone out sounds lousy (IMHO), so don't use that as your only means of checking whether it's the amp or the speaker. I'd recommend trying another cab if you can...even if it means taking it in to a music store to do it.

And it could be either a tube or a pot...I had an issue with a pot on mine...it got knocked from the front and made the housing come loose. Try doing a push/pull comparison on the pots to see if one of them is noticeably looser with more play than the others (they will naturally have some play, but it should be minimal). I found that I could hear the noise through the amp by playing with the culprit pot once I located it. Then you just have to remove the chassis and bend the tabs back on the pot housing...problem fixed.

To check for a tube problem you can tap lightly on the tubes (preamp and power amp) with a pencil. If a tube has gone bad, it may make a noise when doing this (again, a little noise is normal, but a lot of noise or a nasty noise is not). Or you can just buy a 12ax7 tube and try swapping it out with the preamp tubes one by one and see if that makes any difference. Start with V1 and V2.

However, if I were you I'd probably just call Mesa Tech support and describe your issue to them. They are very good at trouble shooting over the phone (that's how I discovered my faulty pot). And not only that, they sent me a replacement pot at no charge (even though I was the one who messed it up) just in case I couldn't fix the one...which I did, so now I have a spare!! :cool:

Whatever you end up doing, definitely call Mesa before sending it anywhere for service. I think a lot of issues can be resolved that way with little to no cost with the amp never leaving your home! :thu:

Thanks for all fo the advice so far from everyone.

I misspoke when I said analog distortion, I intended to say solid state distortion or clipping. It sounds like the clipping/distortion is sitting in the background behind the guitar sound itself. I don't know how else to describe it.

Here's what I have done to diagnose the problem so far:

1. 2 different guitars (single coils and humbuckers). Neither of them have high gain pickups in them. Problem remains.
2. My connections: Guitar > good guitar cable > F-50 > Monster speaker cable > Rocktron S112.
3. Swapped tubes between JJ 12AX7 and stock Mesa 12AX7s in multiple combinations in V1 and V2. The distortion seemed more obvious with the JJs, but did not disappear with the Mesas. My assumption is the JJs are a little higher gain and therefore just amplify the problem that exists outside of the tube.
4. I have not tapped the tubes nor wiggled the pots to see if that might be the problem. I'll try that next. But I have a 1 year old in the house and don't have a lot of opportunity to spend time amp fiddling.

I'll post my results. But if Mesa is as helpfull as I've heard, I may just call them for help when I do have a few moments at home without the munchkin there.

Keep jamming.

-Rick

hal9000

09-08-2006, 11:54 AM

Originally posted by theduck

Thanks for all fo the advice so far from everyone.

I misspoke when I said analog distortion, I intended to say solid state distortion or clipping. It sounds like the clipping/distortion is sitting in the background behind the guitar sound itself. I don't know how else to describe it.

Here's what I have done to diagnose the problem so far:

1. 2 different guitars (single coils and humbuckers). Neither of them have high gain pickups in them. Problem remains.
2. My connections: Guitar > good guitar cable > F-50 > Monster speaker cable > Rocktron S112.
3. Swapped tubes between JJ 12AX7 and stock Mesa 12AX7s in multiple combinations in V1 and V2. The distortion seemed more obvious with the JJs, but did not disappear with the Mesas. My assumption is the JJs are a little higher gain and therefore just amplify the problem that exists outside of the tube.
4. I have not tapped the tubes nor wiggled the pots to see if that might be the problem. I'll try that next. But I have a 1 year old in the house and don't have a lot of opportunity to spend time amp fiddling.

I'll post my results. But if Mesa is as helpfull as I've heard, I may just call them for help when I do have a few moments at home without the munchkin there.

Keep jamming.

-Rick Definitely call Mesa on Monday when they are back at the shop.

If you've already verified that the V1 and V2 tubes aren't the problem, also try V3 and V4.

Is it possible for you to wire up the recording output on your F-50 to your computer so we can hear the problem? You'll just need a 1/4" to 1/8" converter to connect to your sound card's line level input.

jcoggins7

09-08-2006, 12:18 PM

Hey what's up guys? I just thought I'd let you know that I'm now a proud owner of a Mesa/Boogie F-50. After doing thorough research, including viewing this board many times, listening to Tommi Inkila's and andershoeg's soundclips, and then trying out the F-30 and F-50 in Mesa dealers, I decided that it was the best choice for me. It will be my first tube amp (though I'm previously experienced in using and maintaining them, it will be my first one to own). I've been playing for 8 years and just never had the money or the knowledge of what's the best to get a good amp. Now I do. I'm so happy to be an brother of this group now.

By the way, Hal, I really like your graphics a lot. Could you possibly make me one with a black SSS Fender Strat with white pickguard and pickups and chrome top hat knobs (no numbers) and '60's style bridge cover going into a Boss V-Wah and then into an F-50 combo? Also, it would be great to have a Line6 Tonecore Echo Park and Line6 Tonecore Verbzilla in the effects loop (in that order) if at all possible. If you don't want to, it's no big deal.

Surfcaster

09-08-2006, 12:26 PM

Originally posted by hal9000
This is my setup:

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y34/afraiddave/hal9000F-100DirectRecordingRig.png

The PODxt Live is only for cab sim and tape echo. My F-100 is the tone generator. :)

Thanks for the kind words. I really like the way the song sounds so far.

Sounds great, Hal9000! My experience is that you can get great heavy and dark clips with the F-Series going direct...though the signal needs some help. Along those lines I, too, have been very pleased with the results using the Line 6 cab models and EQ (in my case using the Toneport). Which cab model are you using for the tracks in this clip?

hal9000

09-08-2006, 12:39 PM

Originally posted by Surfcaster

Sounds great, Hal9000! My experience is that you can get great heavy and dark clips with the F-Series going direct...though the signal needs some help. Along those lines I, too, have been very pleased with the results using the Line 6 cab models and EQ (in my case using the Toneport). Which cab model are you using for the tracks in this clip? Thanks Surfcaster. :)

For the other amps I've recorded, the regular V30 4x12 cab and SM-57 on-axis worked well, but in this case I'm using the Treadplate (oversized Recto cab) 4x12 with V30s. The mic is an off-axis SM-57. For some odd reason, there is an excess of high end coming from the Hot Plate that I didn't have from my other low power (7 W and 22 W) amps. The anomalous noise may be due to the Hot Plate's influence on the tone. One thing about going direct with the F-100 is how tight it is. It's like playing my VHT 50CL, seriously. I'm going to make a clip this weekend of COC - Infinite War and you'll see what I mean. :)

IvIark

09-08-2006, 12:53 PM

Hi to you all

I've just got a new F50 and seem to be having a couple of teething problems.

It's goddam loud!! :D

But more importantly; Firstly I can't seem to get a decent sound out of the reverb, it just sounds really metallic and boingy to me. Is this as expected or do you think there may be a problem with the tank? I'm used to a much smoother reverb by using an DSP4000 or G-Force and so it may just be that I'm comparing it to what I'm used to, but I'd definitely say the reverb sounds better in my old Peavey Bandit that has lived in my garage for the past decade!

Secondly is that when I do put my rack in the loop I'm hardly getting anything on the input level bar on my processors as if the loop is driving a really low level signal. If I boost up the input and the output on the actual processor then I can get an "ok" sound from my rack but it gets noisy and the processor level stays right at the bottom which means they aren't performing to the best of their ability.

Has anyone else had a similar problem or does this sound like mine may have a problem with the loop?

Thanks for any help you can give

hal9000

09-08-2006, 12:55 PM

Originally posted by jcoggins7
Hey what's up guys? I just thought I'd let you know that I'm now a proud owner of a Mesa/Boogie F-50. After doing thorough research, including viewing this board many times, listening to Tommi Inkila's and andershoeg's soundclips, and then trying out the F-30 and F-50 in Mesa dealers, I decided that it was the best choice for me. It will be my first tube amp (though I'm previously experienced in using and maintaining them, it will be my first one to own). I've been playing for 8 years and just never had the money or the knowledge of what's the best to get a good amp. Now I do. I'm so happy to be an brother of this group now.

By the way, Hal, I really like your graphics a lot. Could you possibly make me one with a black SSS Fender Strat with white pickguard and pickups and chrome top hat knobs (no numbers) and '60's style bridge cover going into a Boss V-Wah and then into an F-50 combo? Also, it would be great to have a Line6 Tonecore Echo Park and Line6 Tonecore Verbzilla in the effects loop (in that order) if at all possible. If you don't want to, it's no big deal. Welcome to the forum and the F-series Brotherhood jcoggins7! :)

I hope you're having as much fun with your new F-50 as when I brought home my F-100.

Thanks for the complement on my artwork. I have more examples in my signature if you’re interested. I'm unfortunately (for you :)) swamped with work for my graphic design business and I can't devote much time at all to what I like to call "Portfolio expansion." If you'd like to fund this little venture, I'll quote you a special price (see email in sig).

hal9000

09-08-2006, 01:03 PM

Originally posted by IvIark
Hi to you all

I've just got a new F50 and seem to be having a couple of teething problems.

It's goddam loud!! :D

But more importantly; Firstly I can't seem to get a decent sound out of the reverb, it just sounds really metallic and boingy to me. Is this as expected or do you think there may be a problem with the tank? I'm used to a much smoother reverb by using an DSP4000 or G-Force and so it may just be that I'm comparing it to what I'm used to, but I'd definitely say the reverb sounds better in my old Peavey Bandit that has lived in my garage for the past decade!

Secondly is that when I do put my rack in the loop I'm hardly getting anything on the input level bar on my processors as if the loop is driving a really low level signal. If I boost up the input and the output on the actual processor then I can get an "ok" sound from my rack but it gets noisy and the processor level stays right at the bottom which means they aren't performing to the best of their ability.

Has anyone else had a similar problem or does this sound like mine may have a problem with the loop?

Thanks for any help you can give Welcome to the forum and the F-series Brotherhood IvIark! :)

In using the FX loop, the channel masters determine the send strength. I typically have my F-100's masters setup to drive my G-Major at 11:00 on clean (Gain @ 12:00) and 10:00 on OD (Gain @ 12:00). Then, with the input on the G-Major set to 12:00 I get plenty of level which I would estimate is about -10 dB max (pro level input sensitivity). Then, I adjust the G-Major's output level to the playing volume of my band. Not only does the G-Major get a level it wants, but I also have excellent control over the amp's output volume and I can get great low volume performance. BTW, my FX loop is set for 90% wet.

IvIark

09-08-2006, 02:04 PM

Originally posted by hal9000
Welcome to the forum and the F-series Brotherhood IvIark! :)

In using the FX loop, the channel masters determine the send strength. I typically have my F-100's masters setup to drive my G-Major at 11:00 on clean (Gain @ 12:00) and 10:00 on OD (Gain @ 12:00). Then, with the input on the G-Major set to 12:00 I get plenty of level which I would estimate is about -10 dB max (pro level input sensitivity). Then, I adjust the G-Major's output level to the playing volume of my band. Not only does the G-Major get a level it wants, but I also have excellent control over the amp's output volume and I can get great low volume performance. BTW, my FX loop is set for 90% wet.

Thanks for the info. To be fair I only got it today and only used it at low volumes in the house, so I knew I wouldn't be getting the best out of it. I've got an attenuator on the way so I'll be using that for practise so I can get the master and gain up to a higher level. Do you think the reverb sounds better at higher level settings as well? I just want to make sure that what I have is normal.

One other thing, has anyone ever tried Yellowjackets (or equivalents) in the F50? I've been looking at some triode versions from Tube Amp Doctor that would take it down to about 9 watts, and that's quite a nice looking option to have.

Thanks again

musicdog400

09-08-2006, 02:25 PM

Wouldn't it be neat if you could have swappable power modules ? One for home, like 1 or 5 watts, and one for gigs around 50 watts.

jcoggins7

09-08-2006, 02:42 PM

In the future sometime, I may want to get a cab to extend my setup possiblilities slightly. I intend (if it's possible; I'm not sure 100 percent) to run the sound through the F-50's speaker and a cab. So far, I find that I'm the most interested in either

1) a Mesa/Boogie 1x12 widebody cab with a C90 in it (no tone surprises)
2) a Mesa/Boogie 1x12 Recto cab (for a slightly tighter bottom end)
3) a Splawn cab of some sort (for an interesting blend)

I will most surely check them all out individually for myself with my amp, but just for kicks, what do you guys recommend?

IvIark

09-08-2006, 02:45 PM

Originally posted by musicdog400
Wouldn't it be neat if you could have swappable power modules ? One for home, like 1 or 5 watts, and one for gigs around 50 watts.

I have an Engl Thunder which is fantastic at low volume and so I've never bothered with an attenuator but I ordered one specifically for the F50 because I'd heard it wasn't great at low volumes for practise.
The one I ordered was from Torres in the UK and isn't as advanced as some on the market in terms of features but comes with two attenuated levels that you can choose. I opted coincidentally for 1 and 5 watts.

The Yellowjackets would make a nice extra option though seeing as they can be just pulled out and plugged in without re-biasing. It also seems like a pretty cheap way to get a totally different tone out of your amp.

Surfcaster

09-08-2006, 10:16 PM

Originally posted by IvIark

But more importantly; Firstly I can't seem to get a decent sound out of the reverb, it just sounds really metallic and boingy to me. Is this as expected or do you think there may be a problem with the tank? I'm used to a much smoother reverb by using an DSP4000 or G-Force and so it may just be that I'm comparing it to what I'm used to, but I'd definitely say the reverb sounds better in my old Peavey Bandit that has lived in my garage for the past decade!

Thanks for any help you can give

The reverb, IMHO, is definitely one of the weaker aspects of the F-Series amps...seems very dry and sterile to me. But to be honest the F-Series does better with the reverb than some of the Nomads I've heard. I've heard that tube reverb circuits sound better and surprisingly, the reverb circuit on the F-Series is NOT a tube circuit...but I suppose if it was it would push the price up.

I had an Ampeg Reverberocket before the F50 and the reverb on that amp was just to die for...as good as Fender IMO (Shoot...better than the reverb on the new Supersonics...blech!!) And the F-Series reverb certainly won't stand up well next to some of the nice digital reverbs available now.

Anyway, I've kind of made peace with ther reverb on my F50...especially after comparing to the Supersonic. And who knows, one day I may just buy a reverb pedal.

Lt_Core

09-10-2006, 11:46 AM

So, here's the short version. Played two nights at the same venue this weekend.

Friday night: 45 minutes into our first set my F-50 starts cutting in and out. After 10 seconds of this it just dies. Luckily I brought a backup amp with me because we were out of town.

Saturday afternoon: played around with the amp seemed fine. Didn't get a chance to really crank it up, though. Kept it on for at hour or so. No apparent problem. I reseeded the 2 tubes in the back. Fuse looked fine.

Saturday night: halfway through the first song it cuts in and out, then dies. I had the backup amp setup in just in case. I was ready to go for the solo by about 2 measures with the backups. Talk about close.

What the heck is going on? This is my first tube amp. Is this the sign of a tube dying? Please suggest any troubleshooting ideas. I might call Mesa on Monday. Thanks for any help!

Roosevelt

09-10-2006, 07:25 PM

I just got a brand new F-30 yesterday at Guitar Center. I tested it next to a Rectoverb 50 and the F-30 came out by a 1/4 mile in my opinion.

The EL84's sound really full and warm, and overall it is a great amp full of tones!

Alchemist

09-10-2006, 07:35 PM

Congrats. I love my F-30 and have been singing its praises for a while:thu:

hal9000

09-11-2006, 07:53 AM

Originally posted by Roosevelt
I just got a brand new F-30 yesterday at Guitar Center. I tested it next to a Rectoverb 50 and the F-30 came out by a 1/4 mile in my opinion.

The EL84's sound really full and warm, and overall it is a great amp full of tones! Sweet! Welcome to the forum and the F-series Brotherhood! :)

Tell us more about your musical inclination and the other gear you use. We always like to see pics of rigs.

hal9000

09-11-2006, 07:56 AM

I posted a thread about these recordings here: http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1371179 but for the sake of this thread, here is a repost:

Last week, I finally got around to putting together some direct recordings of my F-100 using a Hot Plate and PODxt Live. I posted a thread about it here: http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1367180

The results were encouraging, but I was getting a lot of high end noise that wasn’t present in the signal from my amp, so I decided to run the PODxt Live as a USB audio device bypassing my sound card. WOW! What a difference. I wasn’t a believer until now. The sound card was adding everything to the sound I didn’t like, and with a straight USB connection, the recordings were pristine and as noise-free as I could hope for. Better, the recordings really sound like my amp does in the room which I really haven’t been able to capture with a mic.

Clip 1: F-100 Heavy Clip in Contour (http://www.64graphics.com/clips/hal9000F-100_Heavy_USB.mp3)
I used my Ravelle's bridge SD Custom for the rhythm parts and the neck SD '59 + Germania for the solo parts. My F-100 was set for 50 W on Contour through the 8 Ohm jack for a darker sound. The settings were the same for rhythm and lead. Again, this clip is intentionally dark.

The clip was recorded with this setup:
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y34/afraiddave/hal9000F-100DirectRecordingRigRevB.png

As you can see, I’m using the USB capability of the XTL for recording and I’m also monitoring audio via my headphones which are plugged into the XTL. So, the XTL is acting as a sound card, and I’m only incurring a single A/D process which is much cleaner.

Clip 2 – F-100 Clip - Corrosion of Conformity - Infinte War (http://www.64graphics.com/clips/hal9000COC_%20Infinite_War_F-100.mp3)
This clip is with the same settings as above, but I used the Germania and the bridge SD Custom for both rhythm and lead parts to get the kind of tone that Corrosion of Conformity is using in the song Infinite War.

So, I hope you like the clips. I'm really excited to have a system in place for silent recording that rivals micing an amp.

Surfcaster

09-11-2006, 08:08 AM

Originally posted by hal9000
I posted a thread about these recordings here: http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1371179 but for the sake of this thread, here is a repost:

Last week, I finally got around to putting together some direct recordings of my F-100 using a Hot Plate and PODxt Live. I posted a thread about it here: http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1367180

The results were encouraging, but I was getting a lot of high end noise that wasn’t present in the signal from my amp, so I decided to run the PODxt Live as a USB audio device bypassing my sound card. WOW! What a difference. I wasn’t a believer until now. The sound card was adding everything to the sound I didn’t like, and with a straight USB connection, the recordings were pristine and as noise-free as I could hope for. Better, the recordings really sound like my amp does in the room which I really haven’t been able to capture with a mic.

Clip 1: F-100 Heavy Clip in Contour (http://www.64graphics.com/clips/hal9000F-100_Heavy_USB.mp3)
I used my Ravelle's bridge SD Custom for the rhythm parts and the neck SD '59 + Germania for the solo parts. My F-100 was set for 50 W on Contour through the 8 Ohm jack for a darker sound. The settings were the same for rhythm and lead. Again, this clip is intentionally dark.

As you can see, I’m using the USB capability of the XTL for recording and I’m also monitoring audio via my headphones which are plugged into the XTL. So, the XTL is acting as a sound card, and I’m only incurring a single A/D process which is much cleaner.

Clip 2 – F-100 Clip - Corrosion of Conformity - Infinte War (http://www.64graphics.com/clips/hal9000COC_%20Infinite_War_F-100.mp3)
This clip is with the same settings as above, but I used the Germania and the bridge SD Custom for both rhythm and lead parts to get the kind of tone that Corrosion of Conformity is using in the song Infinite War.

So, I hope you like the clips. I'm really excited to have a system in place for silent recording that rivals micing an amp.

Wow, Neil, that sounds awesome. :thu:

The difference is amazing...who would have thought. The few times I've done it have always been through the Toneport's USB, I've never tried going in through the soundcard. Now I know to just stick with USB.

IvIark

09-11-2006, 08:15 AM

Originally posted by Surfcaster

The reverb, IMHO, is definitely one of the weaker aspects of the F-Series amps...seems very dry and sterile to me.

Thanks for the info chaps. I think I'll try to take out the tank just to see if a spring has snapped or something. It just doesn't sound right, just clunky.

Originally posted by hal9000
We always like to see pics of rigs.

Well seeing as you asked! :)

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j6/IvIark_2006/Marks%20Gear/IMG_0667_REDUCED.jpg

hal9000

09-11-2006, 08:21 AM

Originally posted by IvIark
<snip>
Well seeing as you asked! :)

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j6/IvIark_2006/IMG_0667_REDUCED.jpg NICE RIG! Did somebody say wet/dry?

Do you run the Marshall cab with the F-30? I bet that would sound sweet.

IvIark

09-11-2006, 08:27 AM

Originally posted by hal9000
NICE RIG! Did somebody say wet/dry?

Do you run the Marshall cab with the F-30? I bet that would sound sweet.

It's an F50. At least it better had be!! :D

The Marshall cab usually has the Engl going through it so I can switch between the 2 amps using an AB box without having to worry about loading the outputs. But at the moment it does have the F50 going into it and it sounds superb. It has a G12-T75 in it and it really tightens up the bottom end.

I used to have a Blackmore and a 4x12 but I made a deal with my missus to downsize and I actually much prefer things now.

I do have a separate 2x12 as well to open up a few more options but it's in the garage!

hal9000

09-11-2006, 08:31 AM

Originally posted by IvIark

It's an F50. At least it better had be!! :D

The Marshall cab usually has the Engl going through it so I can switch between the 2 amps using an AB box without having to worry about loading the outputs. But at the moment it does have the F50 going into it and it sounds superb. It has a G12-T75 in it and it really tightens up the bottom end.

I used to have a Blackmore and a 4x12 but I made a deal with my missus to downsize and I actually much prefer things now.

I do have a separate 2x12 as well to open up a few more options but it's in the garage! Doh! Yeah, that's an F-50. I've gotten used to looking at my F-100 which makes the F-50 look narrow to me.

You really ought to try out a wet/dry rig with the Engl getting the wet side into it's FX return. Or, you could go full stereo. Mmm... That's nice.

IvIark

09-11-2006, 08:33 AM

Originally posted by hal9000
Doh! Yeah, that's an F-50. I've gotten used to looking at my F-100 which makes the F-50 look narrow to me.

You really ought to try out a wet/dry rig with the Engl getting the wet side into it's FX return. Or, you could go full stereo. Mmm... That's nice.

Thanks Hal. It does make it pretty versatile so I may have to try that out.

Lt_Core

09-11-2006, 09:19 AM

Originally posted by Lt_Core
So, here's the short version. Played two nights at the same venue this weekend.

Friday night: 45 minutes into our first set my F-50 starts cutting in and out. After 10 seconds of this it just dies. Luckily I brought a backup amp with me because we were out of town.

Saturday afternoon: played around with the amp seemed fine. Didn't get a chance to really crank it up, though. Kept it on for at hour or so. No apparent problem. I reseeded the 2 tubes in the back. Fuse looked fine.

Saturday night: halfway through the first song it cuts in and out, then dies. I had the backup amp setup in just in case. I was ready to go for the solo by about 2 measures with the backups. Talk about close.

What the heck is going on? This is my first tube amp. Is this the sign of a tube dying? Please suggest any troubleshooting ideas. I might call Mesa on Monday. Thanks for any help!

Does this sound like a tube problem, guys?

hal9000

09-11-2006, 09:25 AM

Originally posted by Lt_Core

Does this sound like a tube problem, guys? It does sound like a power tube problem to me. Also, you could have a bum fuse. You can't always tell by looking. Do you have another set of power tubes around to try out? Sometimes, with a club's bum power, tube problems can be exacerbated. So, perhaps bad power coupled with bum tubes caused your problem.

Lt_Core

09-11-2006, 09:35 AM

Thanks for the quick reply. I appreciate it.

The fuse looks good. If it was a fuse problem it wouldn't power up at all, right? Where would I find spare fuses for the F-50?

This happened at home and at a club. We use a couple of really good sound companies so the power is usually not a problem.

I'm going to call Bob @ Eurotubes today and order a full replacement set. Tube amp newbie over here ;)

hal9000

09-11-2006, 09:36 AM

Originally posted by Lt_Core
Thanks for the quick reply. I appreciate it.

The fuse looks good. If it was a fuse problem it wouldn't power up at all, right? Where would I find spare fuses for the F-50?

This happened at home and at a club. We use a couple of really good sound companies so the power is usually not a problem.

I'm going to call Bob @ Eurotubes today and order a full replacement set. Tube amp newbie over here ;) Are your tubes still under warranty? If you bought the amp within the last six months, Mesa will send you a new set free.

Lt_Core

09-11-2006, 09:43 AM

Originally posted by hal9000
Are your tubes still under warranty? If you bought the amp within the last six months, Mesa will send you a new set free.

It was purchased new in April, 2006 from a Guitar Center in Indiana. I bought it on eBay in June. I don't have the original receipt or anything. They probably won't accept that.

doctornads

09-11-2006, 09:49 AM

Hey guys. Sorry to interupt the current discusion. Is it me or is the f-50 louder then a dual rec. (which i own) I Went to guitar center the other day and plugged into a f-50 and it seemed aloooooot louder. Like imagine the volume being all the way down and then moving it up maybe a centimeter or 2. And that was LOUD. Any one else think this. And also I would have bought it if it wasnt soo loud. I LOVE how it sounds. Would i THD hotplate make a signifficant difference in volume without taking away from the tone?

hal9000

09-11-2006, 09:50 AM

Originally posted by Surfcaster

Wow, Neil, that sounds awesome. :thu:

The difference is amazing...who would have thought. The few times I've done it have always been through the Toneport's USB, I've never tried going in through the soundcard. Now I know to just stick with USB. Thanks Surfcaster! Yes, there is a huge difference between the two recorded tones. After Tommi reminded me that sometimes the noise occurs in the recording chain, I started thinking that it's silly to have an A/D/A/D when I can have a single A/D - USB. What's really striking about this setup is that I'm getting better tone than I've captured from either the XTL or Tonelab through the sound card. I sure wish the Tonelab had a USB port. I'm starting to think I might be better off, running the Tonelab in to the XTL's line-in. :)

Anyway, I'm getting real-world sounding recordings compared to what I hear in the room, and that's got me excited. Before, into the sound card, I had to do a lot of EQ tweaking to get things under control. Now, the recording sounds great with just the cab/mic sim running.

hal9000

09-11-2006, 09:52 AM

Originally posted by Lt_Core

It was purchased new in April, 2006 from a Guitar Center in Indiana. I bought it on eBay in June. I don't have the original receipt or anything. They probably won't accept that. Mesa is awesome with customer service. Just read the serial number off the amp, and tell Mesa your story. I'm sure they'll hook you up.

hal9000

09-11-2006, 09:57 AM

Originally posted by doctornads
Hey guys. Sorry to interupt the current discusion. Is it me or is the f-50 louder then a dual rec. (which i own) I Went to guitar center the other day and plugged into a f-50 and it seemed aloooooot louder. Like imagine the volume being all the way down and then moving it up maybe a centimeter or 2. And that was LOUD. Any one else think this. And also I would have bought it if it wasnt soo loud. I LOVE how it sounds. Would i THD hotplate make a signifficant difference in volume without taking away from the tone? The F-50 is a loud beast, but it definitely shouldn't be louder than a dual recto. Also, you may have worn-out tubes in the dual, or perhaps less efficient speakers. You may also be experiencing a different taper to the master volume on the F-50 compared to your recto which would account for why it seems loud so quickly. I have a simple mod in my sig (FX Loop Mix Master) that will give you an overall master on both channels of the F-50 so there is less sensitivity in the master volume controls.

I have both a Hot Plate and couple of loop devices for knocking down the overall level and they all work well. For bedroom volumes I actually use both or my silent rig posted above. For practice and gigs, I don't feel the Hot Plate is warranted since I get good control and great tone from my G-Major in the loop.

Lt_Core

09-11-2006, 10:07 AM

Right before my F-50 crapped out on me Saturday night, I tried an EQ pedal set to flat and pulled the level down as a cheap-o attenuator. This allowed me to put my chorus and DD-20 in the loop, which greatly improved the delay effect, no added gain.

The 1/4" TS mod worked great until I needed to put some pedals in the loop.

hal9000

09-11-2006, 10:12 AM

Originally posted by Lt_Core
Right before my F-50 crapped out on me Saturday night, I tried an EQ pedal set to flat and pulled the level down as a cheap-o attenuator. This allowed me to put my chorus and DD-20 in the loop, which greatly improved the delay effect, no added gain.

The 1/4" TS mod worked great until I needed to put some pedals in the loop. Thanks. The Mix Pot master is intended for use without anything else in the loop. It's unfortunate that the DD-20 doesn't have control over the entire signal, but I'm glad the EQ gave you good results. In using EQ in the loop, try scooping the mids sometime. :)

doctornads

09-11-2006, 10:13 AM

I dont mean louder as in like max volume. Just in knob posistion being both the same but the f-50 being louder. I dont use the master output on my dual cuz i have my loop bypased. I only use the channel volume.

hal9000

09-11-2006, 10:16 AM

Originally posted by doctornads
I dont mean louder as in like max volume. Just in knob posistion being both the same but the f-50 being louder. I dont use the master output on my dual cuz i have my loop bypased. I only use the channel volume. Yeah, that's what I meant about volume taper. Since the F-50 has a different taper to the volume control than your Dual Recto, it will seem louder faster. So, you can just use the FX Mix Pot master mod to make the controls less sensitive if you'd like.

Lt_Core

09-11-2006, 10:18 AM

Originally posted by hal9000
Thanks. The Mix Pot master is intended for use without anything else in the loop. It's unfortunate that the DD-20 doesn't have control over the entire signal, but I'm glad the EQ gave you good results. In using EQ in the loop, try scooping the mids sometime. :)

When I tried the DD-20 in the regular guitar input chain it sounded horrible. Tons of gain added, no note definition, etc.

Going to be added a tremelo pedal soon to the loop. Should be cool!

doctornads

09-11-2006, 10:19 AM

OOO alright. I will try that out next time im there. thanks!

John Denver

09-11-2006, 12:35 PM

I posted a while back about getting a bum F50 from a local store....I exchanged it out for another one(forest green with tweed :love: for an additional 100 bucks....couldn't resist) and it blew me away how much better it sounds. I stare at it even when i'm not playing it.....because i lust for it even when my fingers burn. I have a question that is a little subjective and off topic....but it does relate to the f50. I have a 93/94 Les Paul Studio with factory pups. Wondering if there is any reason to change these, and what effects this would have on the F50. If someone has a pup combination they would like to share....i would be interested. Are the factory pups pretty good? I have little to no knowledge of different pickup types and their effect on the sound....suggestions? I play hard rock and love a fat clean tone as well. I have the action on my les paul set for jazz strings right now....not sure of the gauge....but they are thick as hell with a "wound" g-string. I used this configuration with my old solid state amp in an attempt to bring out a false "tube-like" quality. Should i consider having the action adjusted in a different manner? Do people ever play that thick of strings on a Les Paul?

EDIT: these are the strings

DAddario EXL115W XL Nickel Wound Guitar Strings (Jazz Rock, Wound Third)

IvIark

09-11-2006, 12:58 PM

Originally posted by John Denver
Are the factory pups pretty good? I have little to no knowledge of different pickup types and their effect on the sound....suggestions? I play hard rock and love a fat clean tone as well.

It's all subjective but I love the stock Gibson pickups for rock. There are some nice combinations such as Seth Lovers but I just think there's something about the 498s.

Some people like JBs in the bridge and a Jazz in the neck, and an Alnico Pro 2 in the neck can really nail Slash's Sweet Child o Mine intro, but I've stayed away from temptation and left my LP stock.

IvIark

09-11-2006, 01:02 PM

Just a quick note that may be useful to some people.

I took my new amp to pieces to get the reverb tank out :mad: and it seems that it is faulty. All the springs are ok but the resistance on the input and output are both wrong so it looks like the sound I was getting wasn't intentional!

Just for reference though the part number of the reverb tank is: 9BB2A1B which works out to be the following spec:

9 Type 9
B 190 ohm input
B 2575 ohm output
2 Medium decay (1.75 - 3.0 sec)
A Input Grounded / Output Grounded
1 No Lock
B Horizontal Open Side Down

I'm tempted to see what tanks are in the great sounding reverb amps and try one of those in it's place but I'll get this one replaced FOC from the shop so that will be for a later project.

hal9000

09-11-2006, 01:31 PM

Originally posted by IvIark
Just a quick note that may be useful to some people.

I took my new amp to pieces to get the reverb tank out :mad: and it seems that it is faulty. All the springs are ok but the resistance on the input and output are both wrong so it looks like the sound I was getting wasn't intentional!

Just for reference though the part number of the reverb tank is: 9BB2A1B which works out to be the following spec:

9 Type 9
B 190 ohm input
B 2575 ohm output
2 Medium decay (1.75 - 3.0 sec)
A Input Grounded / Output Grounded
1 No Lock
B Horizontal Open Side Down

I'm tempted to see what tanks are in the great sounding reverb amps and try one of those in it's place but I'll get this one replaced FOC from the shop so that will be for a later project. I used to have a Rivera R55-12 that had a beautiful reverb based around an 8-series Accutronics tank. The 9-series is actually an upgrade, so there will be little gain in changing the tank. You might like a longer tail on the reverb which is what Rivera uses, but the rest of the specs are fixed. It's the send and recovery circuit that mostly determines the reverb's tone since the tank is already high quality.

hal9000

09-11-2006, 01:39 PM

Originally posted by John Denver
I posted a while back about getting a bum F50 from a local store....I exchanged it out for another one(forest green with tweed :love: for an additional 100 bucks....couldn't resist) and it blew me away how much better it sounds. I stare at it even when i'm not playing it.....because i lust for it even when my fingers burn. I have a question that is a little subjective and off topic....but it does relate to the f50. I have a 93/94 Les Paul Studio with factory pups. Wondering if there is any reason to change these, and what effects this would have on the F50. If someone has a pup combination they would like to share....i would be interested. Are the factory pups pretty good? I have little to no knowledge of different pickup types and their effect on the sound....suggestions? I play hard rock and love a fat clean tone as well. I have the action on my les paul set for jazz strings right now....not sure of the gauge....but they are thick as hell with a "wound" g-string. I used this configuration with my old solid state amp in an attempt to bring out a false "tube-like" quality. Should i consider having the action adjusted in a different manner? Do people ever play that thick of strings on a Les Paul?

EDIT: these are the strings

DAddario EXL115W XL Nickel Wound Guitar Strings (Jazz Rock, Wound Third) I'm not saying that you need to change your pickups, but I love the Seymour Duncan Custom and '59 set that are in my Fernandes Ravelle Limited. As you can see in the pic below, the Ravelle is very similar to a Les Paul.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y34/afraiddave/hal9000RavelleFullViewRevB.jpg

Lt_Core

09-11-2006, 02:22 PM

Very close to getting an Agile 3000 with a SD Jazz SH-2 and a SD JB SH-4. Should sound sweet with my F-50!

Surfcaster

09-11-2006, 02:24 PM

Originally posted by John Denver
I have a 93/94 Les Paul Studio with factory pups. Wondering if there is any reason to change these, and what effects this would have on the F50. If someone has a pup combination they would like to share....i would be interested. Are the factory pups pretty good? I have little to no knowledge of different pickup types and their effect on the sound....suggestions?

I've got an 03 Studio LP and I haven't decided if I want to swap out pickups or not. In my case, I would go with lower output pickups. I have lower output pick ups on my other two guitars and really like the tones I get out of the F50 with them. There are a number of tonemeisters out there using medium output pickups...Slash and Neal Schon both come to mind.

A lower output pickup will not push the preamp as hard, so you'll get a little less distortion out of the amp, but it will also give you more articulation and string definition (ability to hear individual strings), it will also reduce some of the "fuzziness".

Getting a pickup with a little less bass output will provide you with a tighter bottom end (especially with the F50, which is definitely prone to a loose bottom end).

I keep wondering about Gibson Burstbucker Pros, though they are pricey. I have a DiMarzio Virtual Vintage PAF in mahogany body/maple top guitar that I really like. Personally, I did not care for the Duncan JB...I replaced it with the DiMarzio and have never looked back.

Really, it's kind of a crap shoot in the sense that it's really hard to know exactly how a particular pickup will sound in a specific guitar and with a specific amp. I bought the Duncan JB, and after several months I realized it just wasn't cutting it. I was able to sell it, but still lost some money on the deal. Fortunately I hit it right with the DiMarzio...for that one guitar anyway!!

On Seymour Duncan's site you can hear sound clips of the various pickups...you still won't know how it will sound with your rig, but at least you can get an idea of how they compare to each other.

DiMarzio has some clips for their pickups, but not all of them. And they are usually songs that a recording artist used that pickup on. It's not quite the comparison tool that Duncan's is, but it's better than nothing.

Lt_Core

09-11-2006, 02:27 PM

Surfcaster, what didn't you like about the JB? I have a choice between the JB or Duncan Custom SH-5 in the bridge.

My band plays Audioslave, Green Day, Jet, etc. and some classic rock. I've read great reviews about both pick-ups.

My Ibanez has Duncan Designed pickups so they're not the real deal.

Surfcaster

09-11-2006, 02:36 PM

Originally posted by Lt_Core
Surfcaster, what didn't you like about the JB? I have a choice between the JB or Duncan Custom SH-5 in the bridge.

My band plays Audioslave, Green Day, Jet, etc. and some classic rock. I've read great reviews about both pick-ups.

My Ibanez has Duncan Designed pickups so they're not the real deal.

It's hard to put my finger on, I just know I didn't like it. It may have been the emphasis on the mids. When I chose the DiMarzio Virtual Vintage PAF, I specifically chose a pickup with a very different EQ response...one that did not emphasize mids. Plus I wanted a pickup that sounded good split and this was recommended. But my buddy agreed that my guitar had never sounded so good through my F50 than when I replaced the JB with the VV PAF

John Denver

09-11-2006, 02:53 PM

hey Hal....on the Mix Pot Master Volume Mod, will any 1/4" cable work? Does it have to be a "speaker" cable, or will any type of 1/4" cable do the job?

Surfcaster

09-11-2006, 03:47 PM

Hey Neil,

Thought of something else I wanted to ask you about those clips you recorded. How do you have the gain and master set on the F100? It just occured to me that since you're using the Hot Plate, you could have the power amp cranked up...just wondering if you were or not?

jcoggins7

09-11-2006, 04:15 PM

Dude Hal I just checked out your newest clips direct recorded and WOW !!! That sounds AMAZING! Almost like it's in person. [insert huge props]

doctornads

09-11-2006, 04:35 PM

Originally posted by hal9000
The F-50 is a loud beast, but it definitely shouldn't be louder than a dual recto. Also, you may have worn-out tubes in the dual, or perhaps less efficient speakers. You may also be experiencing a different taper to the master volume on the F-50 compared to your recto which would account for why it seems loud so quickly. I have a simple mod in my sig (FX Loop Mix Master) that will give you an overall master on both channels of the F-50 so there is less sensitivity in the master volume controls.

I have both a Hot Plate and couple of loop devices for knocking down the overall level and they all work well. For bedroom volumes I actually use both or my silent rig posted above. For practice and gigs, I don't feel the Hot Plate is warranted since I get good control and great tone from my G-Major in the loop.

Hey hall9000...Question. So by doing the fx loop mod in your sig this will make the sensitivity of the volume knob less? So It could be turned up more? And for the 2 cable solution do you take one and plug it into the send leaving the other end to hang and do the same with the 2nd cable for the return?

Roosevelt

09-11-2006, 05:08 PM

What would you guys recommend as cheap high-quality recording program to use so I can get some clips up?

I've never had recording software, so just let me know everything I need in a lower price range to get started recording my F-30.

:D :thu:

Dann'sTheMan

09-11-2006, 05:08 PM

Hey brothers,

Just quickly checking in. :) I've been in Spain the past week doing a flying gig, and I got back last night. It went brilliantly, and I'm still buzzing from the experience.

Tomorrow morning I'm off to Germany on a business trip. I return on Saturday, so hopefully I'll have plenty of time to catch up with my old Berlin friends. :cool: I had been worried that flying out of London Heathrow would be a nightmare with the current travel restrictions, however everything went smoothly, and I'm actually looking forward to the upcoming trips. I'm off to Chicago next month on a biz trip, and I'm still deciding whether I will accept a flying gig to Russia (St. Petersburg) next week. Hope your gigs are putting a grin on your faces too! :D

Big smiles,

Andy.

P.S. Neil/hal9000 - your latest clips sound awesome - love the treble boosted tones. May I add them to the Clip Archive?

P.P.S Welcome to the new additions to the brotherhood: John Denver, Roosevelt, IvIark, theduck, stheeg, doctornads, jcoggins7 and anyone else I might have inadvertently missed. :thu:

Lt_Core

09-11-2006, 05:12 PM

EDIT: Man, I'm losing it...just posted this same thing like 2 hours ago (sigh). Anyway...

Would you guys put a Seymour Duncan JB SH-4 or Duncan Custom SH-5 in the bridge position of an LP to use with my F-50?

Neck has the Jazz SH-2. Need to know ASAP. Thanks!

I play modern rock, some 80's & 90's and even less classic rock.

Dann'sTheMan

09-11-2006, 05:16 PM

Dann'sTheMan

09-11-2006, 05:26 PM

Originally posted by Roosevelt
What would you guys recommend as cheap high-quality recording program to use so I can get some clips up?

I've never had recording software, so just let me know everything I need in a lower price range to get started recording my F-30.

:D :thu:

Hi Roosevelt,

Check out the free recording packages from Kristal and Audacity - they seem to be well regarded. I started with Cakewalk Plasma Express, which came free on the cover disk of a Guitar magazine. It's certainly worth keeping an eye out for such free deals on the cover of music magazines. :)

Big smiles,

Andy.

musicdog400

09-11-2006, 05:52 PM

Recording software:

THe demo verion of N-Track is free and allows two tracks I believe.

Of course there is Ardour for Linux.

doctornads

09-11-2006, 06:05 PM

Originally posted by Dann'sTheMan

Hi doctornads,

Be aware that the Return cable needs to be modified so that the Tip and Sleeve are electrically connected. You can of course achieve this by soldering the two lugs together. Alternatively, if you don't have access to a soldering iron, you could wrap some (conductive) foil around one end of your Return cable, and secure it with elastic bands. :thu:

Big smiles,

Andy.
I know that much but i dont know about how to connect the cables to the send and return. Do you just attach one end of each cable to the send a return and then just let the other ends of the cables dangle?

John Denver

09-11-2006, 10:28 PM

I tried the Mix Pot Master Volume trick.....one question...the volume gets louder as i turn the FX MIX Control down(away from 100%)...this seems odd. What could cause this?...if it is a problem.:freak:....used single cable solution from the diagram in Hal's sig.

theduck

09-11-2006, 11:30 PM

Originally posted by hal9000
Definitely call Mesa on Monday when they are back at the shop.

If you've already verified that the V1 and V2 tubes aren't the problem, also try V3 and V4.

Is it possible for you to wire up the recording output on your F-50 to your computer so we can hear the problem? You'll just need a 1/4" to 1/8" converter to connect to your sound card's line level input.

http://www.combustible.com/download/F50Sample1.mp3
http://www.combustible.com/download/F50Sample2.mp3

Okay I've recorded and posted sounds clips of my F-50 under the following conditions:

Guitar: Peavey HP Signature EXP (not exactly high output pickups), both pickups selected, both pickup volumes on 10, tone on 10.

Straight into Mesa F-50 Head connected to a 1x12 cabinet (to see a speaker load), speaker mute switch is on. Clean channel. Treble - 12:00, Middle - 11:30, Bass - 11:00, Reverb - 8:30, Pull Bright is off.

Sample 1: Gain is at 9:00
Sample 2: Gain is just shy of 12:00

Out of F-50's direct recording output into an M-Audio Delta 1010LT into Cubase SX 2.0 @ 44.1 KHz, 16-bit. No digital clipping present at recording or playback. Yeah, I've done a few recordings. All of the songs on the web site were recorded in the home studio using Mesa guitar amps.

As you can tell, Sample 1 breaks up just barely on the largest, fullest chords. Sample 2 is dirty all the way through.

Is this how it's supposed to sound? I don't have a heck of a lot of gain range on the clean channel before breakup begins.

Is my EQ out of whack? Should I look into a lower gain tube for V1 or V2? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

I have tapped on and twiddled the knobs while playing with no ill effects.

I'll call Mesa tomorrow if I get home from work in time. Thanks as always.

-Rick

ashjn

09-12-2006, 12:54 AM

Dann'sTheMan

09-12-2006, 01:33 AM

Originally posted by doctornads

I know that much but i dont know about how to connect the cables to the send and return. Do you just attach one end of each cable to the send a return and then just let the other ends of the cables dangle?

Yep. Normal cable plugged into Send socket and other end allowed to dangle. Other cable plugged into Return socket, and modded end (tip and sleeve connected) allowed to dangle. :cool:

Big smiles,

Andy.

Dann'sTheMan

09-12-2006, 01:44 AM

Originally posted by John Denver
I tried the Mix Pot Master Volume trick.....one question...the volume gets louder as i turn the FX MIX Control down(away from 100%)...this seems odd. What could cause this?...if it is a problem.:freak:....used single cable solution from the diagram in Hal's sig.

Hi John Denver and ashjn,

This is perfectly normal. :) The Mix pot is designed to change the balance between the amp sound and the effect sound. At the Maximum i.e. 90%, there is only 10% of the amp sound going directly through to the speakers, the rest (90%) is sent through the loop for fx processing - however, the Mix Pot Master Volume trick simply throws away this 90%, thus keeping the amp quiet (it's only seeing 10% of the original signal).

As the Mix is turned down, more of the amp sound is sent directly to the speaker, and so the amp sounds louder. Simply think of the knob as an Attenuator control - as you turn it up, things get quieter, :cool:

Big smiles,

Andy.

SandmaN211

09-12-2006, 01:47 AM

Originally posted by ashjn

Mine does that too. Kind of weird

its suppose to isn't it? the wet/dry mix lets you control how much tone u want from the amp if there are effects connected to it
correct me if im wrong.

btw is the f-50 suppose to sound good when its loud? im using hal single plug solution thingy and when i turn my master higher than 9.00 it sounds muddy.
right now im currently have mine at bout 7-8 and the fx mix is about 70%

hal9000

09-12-2006, 06:11 AM

Originally posted by John Denver
hey Hal....on the Mix Pot Master Volume Mod, will any 1/4" cable work? Does it have to be a "speaker" cable, or will any type of 1/4" cable do the job? Instrument cable (shielded) is the best, but in a pinch a power (speaker) cable would work perfectly well. All we're doing with this mod is disconnecting the parallel path (that's what the FX Send 1/4" plug is for) and grounding the bottom leg of the Mix pot so it's referenced to ground (that's what the soldered tip/sleeve are for on the FX Return 1/4" plug).

hal9000

09-12-2006, 06:37 AM

Originally posted by Surfcaster
Hey Neil,

Thought of something else I wanted to ask you about those clips you recorded. How do you have the gain and master set on the F100? It just occured to me that since you're using the Hot Plate, you could have the power amp cranked up...just wondering if you were or not? Surf, here are my settings for the two most recent recordings:

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y34/afraiddave/hal9000F-100SettingsSludgeInifinite.jpg

As you can see, I have the master around 10:00 or so, which is about my gig volume.

When I get some time, I'll play around with some power stage distortion. :)

hal9000

09-12-2006, 06:39 AM

Originally posted by jcoggins7
Dude Hal I just checked out your newest clips direct recorded and WOW !!! That sounds AMAZING! Almost like it's in person. [insert huge props] Thanks a lot jcoggins7. You've humbled me with your kind words. :)

I'm just getting started with direct recording, so I'm looking forward to learning new tips and tricks as I go along.

hal9000

09-12-2006, 06:49 AM

Originally posted by doctornads

Hey hall9000...Question. So by doing the fx loop mod in your sig this will make the sensitivity of the volume knob less? So It could be turned up more? And for the 2 cable solution do you take one and plug it into the send leaving the other end to hang and do the same with the 2nd cable for the return? Doctornads, The FX mix pot master will lessen the sensitivity of your channel masters as long as it's turned down a bit. This mod works basically the same as the Recto-series' output master if you're familiar with that arrangement. Even if you didn't perceive any gain in tone from this method, it's still nice to have an overall master for both channels.

For either FX Mix pot master version, the FX send plug or cable doesn't go anywhere. The insertion of the plug into the FX send jack mechanically disconnects the parallel path between the FX Send and FX Return jacks.

The FX Return jack needs to have its tip and sleeve lugs connected to reference the Mix Pot to ground. There are two methods for doing this given in the diagram. Solder, Aluminum foil, a metal spring-loaded clip, etc. will all do the job.

hal9000

09-12-2006, 06:54 AM

Originally posted by Dann'sTheMan
Hey brothers,

<Andy is ridiculously busy and is checking in>

Big smiles,

Andy.

P.S. Neil/hal9000 - your latest clips sound awesome - love the treble boosted tones. May I add them to the Clip Archive?Andy, thanks for the compliements on the clips. I love what the Germania does for leads.

Yes, please add both Sludge and Infinite War to the clip archive under the Metal section. If you could remove Our Time and SKOM I would appreciate it. I'm going to replace them with higher quality versions when I get some time.

Do you think it would be useful to have the Mix Pot Master and some recommended settings in the first post as well?

hal9000

09-12-2006, 07:05 AM

Originally posted by Lt_Core
EDIT: Man, I'm losing it...just posted this same thing like 2 hours ago (sigh). Anyway...

Would you guys put a Seymour Duncan JB SH-4 or Duncan Custom SH-5 in the bridge position of an LP to use with my F-50?

Neck has the Jazz SH-2. Need to know ASAP. Thanks!

I play modern rock, some 80's & 90's and even less classic rock. I have experience with both the JB (in my ESP H-1000) and Custom (Ravelle Limited). Both are Mahogany body guitars with maple tops. I prefer the tone of the Custom, partly because the Ravelle is such as beast, but the JB is still a good sounding pickup. Both sound good with my amp, so it's really a subjective question. Have you listened to the comparison clips HERE? (http://www.seymourduncan.com/SDToneWizard/hummer.shtml)

I'm going to put an SD Custom in my Fat Strat when I get around to it, which should really kick it up a notch. I like the '59 copy that's there now, but I want a bit more output in the mids and less high end.

hal9000

09-12-2006, 07:21 AM

Originally posted by theduck

http://www.combustible.com/download/F50Sample1.mp3
http://www.combustible.com/download/F50Sample2.mp3

Okay I've recorded and posted sounds clips of my F-50 under the following conditions:

Guitar: Peavey HP Signature EXP (not exactly high output pickups), both pickups selected, both pickup volumes on 10, tone on 10.

Straight into Mesa F-50 Head connected to a 1x12 cabinet (to see a speaker load), speaker mute switch is on. Clean channel. Treble - 12:00, Middle - 11:30, Bass - 11:00, Reverb - 8:30, Pull Bright is off.

Sample 1: Gain is at 9:00
Sample 2: Gain is just shy of 12:00

Out of F-50's direct recording output into an M-Audio Delta 1010LT into Cubase SX 2.0 @ 44.1 KHz, 16-bit. No digital clipping present at recording or playback. Yeah, I've done a few recordings. All of the songs on the web site were recorded in the home studio using Mesa guitar amps.

As you can tell, Sample 1 breaks up just barely on the largest, fullest chords. Sample 2 is dirty all the way through.

Is this how it's supposed to sound? I don't have a heck of a lot of gain range on the clean channel before breakup begins.

Is my EQ out of whack? Should I look into a lower gain tube for V1 or V2? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

I have tapped on and twiddled the knobs while playing with no ill effects.

I'll call Mesa tomorrow if I get home from work in time. Thanks as always.

-Rick Other than being dark from using the recording output, the tone sounds pretty good to me. The second clip does exhibit some high end fizz that sounds like something in the recording chain. Are you hearing that fizz with the amp played in the room?

Breakup is to be expected with humbuckers on the clean channel, especially with the gain at 12:00 or higher. Do yourself a favor and crank the gain on the clean channel all the way up (TO 11!). Now play your amp with a humbucker loaded guitar. This is the normal breakup you should hear in this channel. If there is fizz on top of it, something else is wrong. Make sure everything else in the signal chain is good.

hal9000

09-12-2006, 07:27 AM

Originally posted by SandmaN211

its suppose to isn't it? the wet/dry mix lets you control how much tone u want from the amp if there are effects connected to it
correct me if im wrong.

btw is the f-50 suppose to sound good when its loud? im using hal single plug solution thingy and when i turn my master higher than 9.00 it sounds muddy.
right now im currently have mine at bout 7-8 and the fx mix is about 70% Yes, the F-50 sounds good when it's loud. Remove the FX Mix Pot mod and turn the amp’s RED channel master up to around 10:00. It should sound very good and loud! Check out the Humbucker Metal Rhythm Setting in my sig for an idea of where I normally use the controls with my HB loaded guitars.

The idea with the mix pot mod is to get the channel masters up over 9:00 and then reduce the overall level with the mix pot to what you need.

BTW, did you mean 7-8 out of 10?
:eek:

Surfcaster

09-12-2006, 07:38 AM

Originally posted by theduck

http://www.combustible.com/download/F50Sample1.mp3
http://www.combustible.com/download/F50Sample2.mp3

Okay I've recorded and posted sounds clips of my F-50 under the following conditions:

Guitar: Peavey HP Signature EXP (not exactly high output pickups), both pickups selected, both pickup volumes on 10, tone on 10.

Straight into Mesa F-50 Head connected to a 1x12 cabinet (to see a speaker load), speaker mute switch is on. Clean channel. Treble - 12:00, Middle - 11:30, Bass - 11:00, Reverb - 8:30, Pull Bright is off.

Sample 1: Gain is at 9:00
Sample 2: Gain is just shy of 12:00

Out of F-50's direct recording output into an M-Audio Delta 1010LT into Cubase SX 2.0 @ 44.1 KHz, 16-bit. No digital clipping present at recording or playback. Yeah, I've done a few recordings. All of the songs on the web site were recorded in the home studio using Mesa guitar amps.

As you can tell, Sample 1 breaks up just barely on the largest, fullest chords. Sample 2 is dirty all the way through.

Is this how it's supposed to sound? I don't have a heck of a lot of gain range on the clean channel before breakup begins.

Is my EQ out of whack? Should I look into a lower gain tube for V1 or V2? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

I have tapped on and twiddled the knobs while playing with no ill effects.

I'll call Mesa tomorrow if I get home from work in time. Thanks as always.

-Rick

Are you looking for squeaky clean? These clips sounded pretty clean to me. I heard a little breakup on the last 2 chords of the second sample, but the rest sounded pretty clean to me. Lacking a lot of high end shimmer (which is typical of the direct-out signal), but still what I'd call clean.

I guess "clean" is pretty subjective, too.

I usually have the gain on my clean channel at around 1:00-1:30 and still have what I feel is a very clean tone (Bright switch on and EQ settings very similar to yours only with Treble at about 1:00). If I want a little break up I push it up to about 3:00.

Here is a link to some of my songs/clips. The third song down is called "F50 - C90 V30 Comparison Clean" which uses my standard clean settings. I'm actually comparing the stock C90 speaker to a Vintage 30, but you can still get the idea. This was mic'd with an SM57. (please disregard the fact that the two tracks aren't very well synchronized!! :) )

Soundclick (http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=381358)

The first song "F50 Line Out > Toneport > Ableton Lite" is recorded direct with my usual clean settings (well, the usual gain...the EQ is all out of whack to help out the direct signal), though I'm using hotter pickups with this one, so it's not quite as clean as usual and when I dig in hard there is a little more break up right before the distortion channel kicks in.

Anyway, maybe this will give you something to compare what you're hearing from your amp.

hal9000

09-12-2006, 07:45 AM

Originally posted by theduck
I'll call Mesa tomorrow if I get home from work in time. Thanks as always.

-Rick Rick, I just wanted to add, check out the clean clips in my sig to get an idea of what my Fat Strat's middle single coil pup sounds like with the clean channel (Gain & TMB roughly 12:00, Master @ 10:00).

markmann

09-12-2006, 10:53 AM

Originally posted by hal9000
Last week, I finally got around to putting together some direct recordings of my F-100 using a Hot Plate and PODxt Live. I posted a thread about it here: http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1367180

The results were encouraging, but I was getting a lot of high end noise that wasn’t present in the signal from my amp, so I decided to run the PODxt Live as a USB audio device bypassing my sound card. WOW! What a difference. I wasn’t a believer until now. The sound card was adding everything to the sound I didn’t like, and with a straight USB connection, the recordings were pristine and as noise-free as I could hope for. Better, the recordings really sound like my amp does in the room which I really haven’t been able to capture with a mic.

As you can see, I’m using the USB capability of the XTL for recording and I’m also monitoring audio via my headphones which are plugged into the XTL. So, the XTL is acting as a sound card, and I’m only incurring a single A/D process which is much cleaner.
This clip is with the same settings as above, but I used the Germania and the bridge SD Custom for both rhythm and lead parts to get the kind of tone that Corrosion of Conformity is using in the song Infinite War.

So, I hope you like the clips. I'm really excited to have a system in place for silent recording that rivals micing an amp. Hey Neil, I finally got around to comparing your new clip with the old one... man what an improvement, the difference is truly dramatic. It's hard to believe that the card was screwing with the sound so much. The first recording was good, the second was great. Were you using the card that came with the puter or something else? This is important information to anyone that records direct. My direct recording in the past was all analog - guitar>amp>redbox>open reel recorder so there was no a/d conversion. When I fianally join the modern age of digital recording I'll have to keep this in mind.

hal9000

09-12-2006, 11:15 AM

Originally posted by markmann
Hey Neil, I finally got around to comparing your new clip with the old one... man what an improvement, the difference is truly dramatic. It's hard to believe that the card was screwing with the sound so much. The first recording was good, the second was great. Were you using the card that came with the puter or something else? This is important information to anyone that records direct. My direct recording in the past was all analog - guitar>amp>redbox>open reel recorder so there was no a/d conversion. When I fianally join the modern age of digital recording I'll have to keep this in mind. Mark, thanks for the compliments on my captured tone. I trust everything is going well with you?

I built the computer I use from scratch with an Asus motherboard and consequently I have always used the on-board audio interface. So, that should explain the discrepancy in performance. If I was planning on doing this kind of work a lot, I'd probably invest in a PCI-Firewire interface of some sort. I’ve known for a long time that most sound cards are woefully inadequate for recording and that even a modest digital interface is quite a step up in performance. Anyway, the XTL really works well as a USB audio interface. I've also just learned how to control the instrument monitor level which bugged me when I was tracking the clips.

markmann

09-12-2006, 12:40 PM

Originally posted by John Denver
I posted a while back about getting a bum F50 from a local store....I exchanged it out for another one(forest green with tweed :love: for an additional 100 bucks....couldn't resist) and it blew me away how much better it sounds. I stare at it even when i'm not playing it.....because i lust for it even when my fingers burn. I have a question that is a little subjective and off topic....but it does relate to the f50. I have a 93/94 Les Paul Studio with factory pups. Wondering if there is any reason to change these, and what effects this would have on the F50. If someone has a pup combination they would like to share....i would be interested. Are the factory pups pretty good? I have little to no knowledge of different pickup types and their effect on the sound....suggestions? I play hard rock and love a fat clean tone as well. I have the action on my les paul set for jazz strings right now....not sure of the gauge....but they are thick as hell with a "wound" g-string. I used this configuration with my old solid state amp in an attempt to bring out a false "tube-like" quality. Should i consider having the action adjusted in a different manner? Do people ever play that thick of strings on a Les Paul?

EDIT: these are the strings

DAddario EXL115W XL Nickel Wound Guitar Strings (Jazz Rock, Wound Third) Your strings aren't all that thick so if you like them you should be fine. If you're fighting them try a set of 10's which are a bit thinner and easier to bend.

It's tough to recommend pup's because there are so many good one's for rock. I happen to like Gibson pup's and my current favorite bridge bucker is a 490T in a LP and splits really well. My current favorite neck bucker is a SD Alnico II Pro that I have in my Ibanez Artist (basically a double cut LP) which is very sweet. I'm really wanting to try a Screamin' Demon in the bridge of the Artist.

Here's a tip: buy pup's from a manufacturer like Seymour Duncan that has a decent return policy and if you don't like how a pup sounds return it and try another.

markmann

09-12-2006, 01:01 PM

Originally posted by hal9000
Mark, thanks for the compliments on my captured tone. I trust everything is going well with you?

I built the computer I use from scratch with an Asus motherboard and consequently I have always used the on-board audio interface. So, that should explain the discrepancy in performance. If I was planning on doing this kind of work a lot, I'd probably invest in a PCI-Firewire interface of some sort. I’ve known for a long time that most sound cards are woefully inadequate for recording and that even a modest digital interface is quite a step up in performance. Anyway, the XTL really works well as a USB audio interface. I've also just learned how to control the instrument monitor level which bugged me when I was tracking the clips. Ah, that explains it then. I tranfered some of my stuff to PC by running analog into the onboard soundcard and I could hear a noticable decrease in audio quality.

I've been looking at firewire for a while but haven't taken the leap yet. The past year I've been playing live a lot so working on original material has taken a back seat, that's why I haven't been in a hurry to buy new recording gear.

eSoTeRiK

09-12-2006, 02:08 PM

My F-50 combo came in today! :D :cool:

Got to play it at the store for about an hour at lunch. I was having so much fun. Then I realized I was way late to get back to work and had to leave. :eek: :eek:

Put a down payment on it though. Pay day is this Friday.

It's gonna be a long week. :cry: :cry:

Hold me. :( :o ;)

theduck

09-12-2006, 02:31 PM

Originally posted by hal9000
[B]Other than being dark from using the recording output, the tone sounds pretty good to me. The second clip does exhibit some high end fizz that sounds like something in the recording chain. Are you hearing that fizz with the amp played in the room?

That high end fizz on Sample 2 is definitely what I'm talking about! I'm glad I'm not the only one who hears it!

I do hear it in the room through the speaker cabinet in the room. My other band members hear it to during some listening sesions.

I hear it when the headphones are plugged directly into the recording output, when the output is sent into my soundcard and when the signal goes though my cabinet. I am monitoring the software very carefully for any kind of digital clipping in the signal chain, but I have no pedals in the chain and only high-quality cables.

Seems to me that would indicate some kind of a problem within the head itself. I guess I can live with the gain on the clean channel down at 9:00 and make up for it with master gain.

That high end fizz just doesn't sound ltypical to me . I'll get back and post again once I hear what Mesa has to say.

-Rick

Surfcaster

09-12-2006, 04:18 PM

Originally posted by theduck

That high end fizz on Sample 2 is definitely what I'm talking about! I'm glad I'm not the only one who hears it!

I do hear it in the room through the speaker cabinet in the room. My other band members hear it to during some listening sesions.

I hear it when the headphones are plugged directly into the recording output, when the output is sent into my soundcard and when the signal goes though my cabinet. I am monitoring the software very carefully for any kind of digital clipping in the signal chain, but I have no pedals in the chain and only high-quality cables.

Seems to me that would indicate some kind of a problem within the head itself. I guess I can live with the gain on the clean channel down at 9:00 and make up for it with master gain.

That high end fizz just doesn't sound ltypical to me . I'll get back and post again once I hear what Mesa has to say.

-Rick

Okay, I hear what you are talking about now (couldn't hear that through my cheapo speakers at work, especially with the copier running right outside my office!!)...it's the kind of sound that if I heard it coming from my speaker I would suspect that something was loose on the amp, or that maybe the speaker itself was damaged. But this is from the direct out. It's not preamp or poweramp break up, just noise, really.

Wow...don't know what to say about that, but you are right in that I would find it annoying! Have you tried swapping out the cables one by one just to rule that out?

Otherwise a call to Mesa is probably your best bet. Keep us posted.

SnowRose

09-12-2006, 05:08 PM

Since most agree that Fender amps accept pedals very well with an exceptional clean channel; how does the Mesa F30 stack up against it?

Which clean channel do you prefer? The Twin or the F30?

Does the F30 accept pedals well?

I am considering the Mesa.

SnowRose

09-12-2006, 05:08 PM

Surfcaster

09-12-2006, 05:42 PM

Originally posted by SnowRose
Since most agree that Fender amps accept pedals very well with an exceptional clean channel; how does the Mesa F30 stack up against it?

Which clean channel do you prefer? The Twin or the F30?

Does the F30 accept pedals well?

I am considering the Mesa.

I find that the F-Series amps work very nicely with pedals. I've had an overdrive pedal for a couple years that I've used both as an OD pedal and as a booster with my F50 with great results. And I just bought an MI Audio Crunch Box distortion pedal that works great with the Mesa...better than with my other tube amp.

Between the quality of the Crunch Box and how well it works with the F50, I can easily use the pedal as a third channel and most people will probably never know it's a pedal.

How it compares to something like a Twin, I don't know, I've never owned one of those amps or tried pedals with any, but I'm very satisfied with the way my pedals sound and perform with my F50.

SnowRose

09-12-2006, 05:52 PM

Originally posted by Surfcaster

I find that the F-Series amps work very nicely with pedals. I've had an overdrive pedal for a couple years that I've used both as an OD pedal and as a booster with my F50 with great results. And I just bought an MI Audio Crunch Box distortion pedal that works great with the Mesa...better than with my other tube amp.

How it compares to something like a Twin, I don't know, I've never owned one of those amps or tried pedals with any, but I'm very satisfied with the way my pedals sound and perform with my F50.

That's good to hear. I really like the gain channel on the Mesa F50. I might look into getting the F30; however, I heard the 30 and 50 are a bit different besides the wattage.

Anyways, the Fender Twin probably has a better clean channel, but Fender gains were never really anything to be hyped about, except the Supersonic.

Do you guys usually buy the Mesa F-series for its distinctive cleans, gain or everything overall? What makes you take it over the Twin regardless of the price.

markmann

09-12-2006, 06:35 PM

SnowRose

09-12-2006, 11:01 PM

Originally posted by markmann
For the record I love Fender Twin's and I own an F50. Don't worry about pedals, both the Fender and the Mesa will take pedals well. Choose your amp by TONE. As much as I love the classic Fender sound, especially with Fender guitars, I chose the F50 for it's more modern tone, punch, and the fact that it has great cleans as well as a fantastic gain channel.

Well after hearing the clips on the Mesa F50, I relaly like it.

Note: I guess Dan didn't get my PM yet, but for others who know, did he use any pedals for the gain on some of his clips? Such as 'gain sound with HBs'?

Tommi Inkila

09-12-2006, 11:36 PM

Originally posted by SnowRose

Well after hearing the clips on the Mesa F50, I relaly like it.

Note: I guess Dan didn't get my PM yet, but for others who know, did he use any pedals for the gain on some of his clips? Such as 'gain sound with HBs'?
I'm pretty sure he didn't use any pedals... one reason was to demonstrate the amps sound and secondly there's easily enough gain on F-series. On some of the newer clips he might have used compressor (Dynacomp) to boost the sound, it gives a little bit different characteristics to the sound... at least he's using it on his live setup.

ashjn

09-13-2006, 12:58 AM

Originally posted by SnowRose

Well after hearing the clips on the Mesa F50, I relaly like it.

Note: I guess Dan didn't get my PM yet, but for others who know, did he use any pedals for the gain on some of his clips? Such as 'gain sound with HBs'?

I've asked him about his settings before, and every setting that he has wrote me back about have been pure F-50

Dann'sTheMan

09-13-2006, 08:31 AM

Originally posted by SnowRose

Well after hearing the clips on the Mesa F50, I relaly like it.

Note: I guess Dan didn't get my PM yet, but for others who know, did he use any pedals for the gain on some of his clips? Such as 'gain sound with HBs'?

Hi SnowRose,

Good to hear from you - I'm glad my clip made a good impression. I recorded that clip with no pedals, just guitar into amp with a bit of reverb from the amp. No post production, or tweaking at mixdown.

As you will probably have guessed, 'HBs' stands for HumBuckers. I used the bridge pickup in my PRS Custom 22. I wanted to show how well the F-50 cleaned up using just the volume control on the guitar, and as Tommi and ashjn commented, I wanted to demonstrate how the amp sounds - even with all that gain.

In the Home Recording section of my sig, only the last three: 'Woody Clean', 'Classic High Gain' and 'Classic 6L6 Drive' make use of my old Dynacomp stomp box. :)

Big smiles,

Andy.

Dann'sTheMan

09-13-2006, 08:34 AM

Originally posted by hal9000
Andy, thanks for the compliements on the clips. I love what the Germania does for leads.

Yes, please add both Sludge and Infinite War to the clip archive under the Metal section. If you could remove Our Time and SKOM I would appreciate it. I'm going to replace them with higher quality versions when I get some time.

Do you think it would be useful to have the Mix Pot Master and some recommended settings in the first post as well?

Hey Neil,

I'll certainly do that, and great ideas for incorporating the Mix Pot Master and Audiition settings in the first post. I'll get to all of this next time I have time online. I never want to rush editing the first post - I would hate to inadvertently delete the thread. :eek: :p :D

Big smiles,

Andy.

Joeytpg

09-13-2006, 09:55 AM

hey guys, i was fooling around yesterday with my Black Box and i recorded a clip.......i know it's not F-series Related or anything but i feel like family here in the F-series Lounge. It's recorded directly from the Black Box to my M-Audio 410 interface into Pro Tools......no bass so you can hear the guitar.....the drums are wth the B.B. Build in drum machine.

No overdubs or aything, just one guitar layer....a little compression to control the signal a littlle bit....but no EQing or anything.

The amp models used is a combination from the Engl Powerball + the MEsa Rectifier (you can combine both amps without having to record one and then the other.

The guitar is a Fender American Strat with EMG 85 in the Bridge. It's D-tuned.

tell me your thoughts

http://www.myspace.com/101845104

the first song (Black Box Heavy Riff)

if you can PLEASE download it because the compression Myspace uses REALLY fucks up the sound A LOT! :mad:

jcoggins7

09-13-2006, 10:51 AM

Dude I was wondering if somebody could tell me if I can run my new F-50 through it's speaker and another cab. Can anybody tell me how to do that? Do I need to get a splitter of some sort so that I can run both speakers at once and factor in the ohms a certain way, or can I just like leave the stock speaker plugged into it's respective speaker out and add like an 8ohm cab into the 8ohm out along with it?

Surfcaster

09-13-2006, 11:10 AM

Originally posted by jcoggins7
Dude I was wondering if somebody could tell me if I can run my new F-50 through it's speaker and another cab. Can anybody tell me how to do that? Do I need to get a splitter of some sort so that I can run both speakers at once and factor in the ohms a certain way, or can I just like leave the stock speaker plugged into it's respective speaker out and add like an 8ohm cab into the 8ohm out along with it?

So long as keep track of your total ohms, you can run an external cab and the internal speaker. There are loads of diagrams in the back of the manual that show how to hook up different cabs depending on their rated ohms and the like.

If your external cab is rated at 8 ohms, then your total load between the cab and the internal speaker (also rated at 8 ohms) is 4 ohms, so you would plug the cab into the 4 ohm jack and the internal speaker into the 4 ohm jack. In that case you do not need any kind of splitter.

hal9000

09-13-2006, 11:11 AM

Originally posted by jcoggins7
Dude I was wondering if somebody could tell me if I can run my new F-50 through it's speaker and another cab. Can anybody tell me how to do that? Do I need to get a splitter of some sort so that I can run both speakers at once and factor in the ohms a certain way, or can I just like leave the stock speaker plugged into it's respective speaker out and add like an 8ohm cab into the 8ohm out along with it? Running another cab is as simple as moving the combo speaker plug to a 4 Ohm jack, and plugging in the extension 8 Ohm cab into the other 4 Ohm jack. The two 4 Ohm jacks are in parallel, and since 8 in parallel with 8 = 4, everything is matched. I have this very arrangement with my F-100 2x12 combo and 2x12 Avatar cab.

If your extension cab isn't 8 Ohms, you can still use the two 4 Ohm jacks, but the impedance will be mismatched. For example, 8||16 = 5.3 Ohms, (|| = Parallel) so the two 4 Ohm jacks are still appropriate.

Surfcaster

09-13-2006, 11:20 AM

Originally posted by SnowRose

That's good to hear. I really like the gain channel on the Mesa F50. I might look into getting the F30; however, I heard the 30 and 50 are a bit different besides the wattage.

Anyways, the Fender Twin probably has a better clean channel, but Fender gains were never really anything to be hyped about, except the Supersonic.

Do you guys usually buy the Mesa F-series for its distinctive cleans, gain or everything overall? What makes you take it over the Twin regardless of the price.

I bought the F50 because it had the best clean AND drive channels of any amp I tried in the $700-$1200 price range I was looking at. The Fenders available at the time just didn't cut it for high gain sounds (the new Supersonic does pretty well, but I'd still choose the F50 over it today). The Marshall combos in that price range (DSL401 and TSL601) were just plain disappointing. I hadn't been overly impressed with the Crate V-Series...not bad amps, but they weren't that much different than the Ampeg Reverberocket I already had (which really was a decent amp, I just wanted a higher gain amp with separate EQ controls for each channel).

So, the F-Series had the features I wanted, were in my price range and overall sounded superior to the other amps I'd tried.

jcoggins7

09-13-2006, 01:42 PM

Thanks Hal and Surfcaster for your help. That certainly clears it up for me.

SnowRose

09-13-2006, 04:07 PM

Well, I don't think there is such a thing as a superior amp. Everyone's going to prefer something different and tone is totally subjective.

How much do F50s go used for? My next gigging amp will most likely be used, just to save some cash. I was thinking of the F30, but I'm not too sure about how it will stand in a band. Is it rated at 30watts or 22watts?

hal9000

09-13-2006, 07:03 PM

SnowRose

09-13-2006, 08:12 PM

Originally posted by hal9000
It's rated for 22 W clean, and that's really the only thing you should worry about volume-wise. I'm quite sure the overdrive side will be able to play over most drummers. BTW, the "30" part of the model is a reference to the Dyna-watt power section which acts as if it is 30 W because of its powerful transient response.

Used F-50s go for around $700-$900.

Hm alright, well I assume $700-900 is usd, but I live in Canada, so it's slightly more....

Wow, that's actually pretty expensive for a 30watt amp that may not even hang with a drummer.....22 watts for clean?

Would I have to settle for a Peavey Classic 50.....

SandmaN211

09-13-2006, 10:34 PM

omg something wrong with my f-50 amp, it wont turn on!!!
it worked yesterday when i played it and now when i try turning it on, it wont work, can somone help me here, i check the back and nothin seems wrong. the power light dont even turn on so i dont know whats going on.
this is my first tube amp and im freaking out

eSoTeRiK

09-13-2006, 10:36 PM

It's probably the mains fuse.

Replace the fuse with one of the same type and see if it turns on again. :thu:

SandmaN211

09-13-2006, 10:38 PM

how do i check the fuse? do i turn it or pull it?
im scared to touch it

edit: dw it was the fuse......

eSoTeRiK

09-13-2006, 10:54 PM

Don't worry, you can't hurt anything by taking the fuse out. :)

Unscrew the fuse holder (the black knobby thing on the back of the amp) and you should feel it kind of pop out (there's a spring in there). You can then remove it and the fuse.

Check the fuse to see if you can see the metal wire going from one side to the other. If you can't, it's definitely blown, and you should replace it.

eSoTeRiK

09-13-2006, 10:55 PM

Lol I see you checked already before I could post.

Good to know it's the fuse. Replace it with the same rating and type and you should be rockin again. :thu:

jcoggins7

09-13-2006, 11:39 PM

Hm alright, well I assume $700-900 is usd, but I live in Canada, so it's slightly more....

Wow, that's actually pretty expensive for a 30watt amp that may not even hang with a drummer.....22 watts for clean?

Would I have to settle for a Peavey Classic 50.....

The 700-900 usd is refering to the cost of an F-50, not the F-30. F-30s typically go for 600-700, while the F-50s I have only seen in the very high 700s, with most being just over 800 (figures don't account for shipping). I just bought a used F-50 with a full set of unopened tubes as backup for $948 after shipping. There are two things to consider here when dealing with a used Mesa F-series amp on ebay:

a) you're gonna save probably around 300 bucks
b) if you don't like it (HIGHLY unlikely), you can resell it on ebay and quite literally make every penny back that you paid

And after dealing with the F-30 (even though I bought the F-50 and liked it better for a few reasons, mainly being the tonal differences in the tubes), I can very confidently bet that an F-30 can hold its own and cut through the mix with a drummer, unless of course, your drummer's like, Mike Portnoy or something. lol

I promise the Mesa F-series amp will be just as good as if not better than any Peavey in every way.

Roosevelt

09-14-2006, 04:32 AM

I'm pretty sure my F-30 can hang with a drummer. Even though its only 22-30 watts tube, it is still stinking loud.

Natek

09-14-2006, 05:38 AM

Responding to the used cost of the F-30 and F-50..........I actually waited for about 2-3 months to score a crazy good deal on my F-50 head.

I won my F-50 last week on ebay which was just re-tubed and came with a hardshell ATA carrying case all for $600!! SO, if you wait and watch, there's some pretty smokin deals on there

I'll post my new dream when It gets in and I get it all set up:)

By the way, since I didn't have access to try amps out, I had to do extensive research on them. I did this for close to a year before I purchased one.......and the F-50 was it! so jacked.....

bowen71

09-14-2006, 08:55 AM

I don't know if anybody can beat the deal I got on my F-50.

A guy who used to play guitar in the band I am in bought a brand new F-50 head and 4x12 cabinet for around $1800. After barely using it he quit playing guitar and needed money real bad to go to truck driving school.

I got a phone call late one night saying the first $400 cash to his house takes the whole half stack. I ran to the closest ATM machine and was at his house 15 minutes later!

Surfcaster

09-14-2006, 09:13 AM

Originally posted by SnowRose
Well, I don't think there is such a thing as a superior amp. Everyone's going to prefer something different and tone is totally subjective.

How much do F50s go used for? My next gigging amp will most likely be used, just to save some cash. I was thinking of the F30, but I'm not too sure about how it will stand in a band. Is it rated at 30watts or 22watts?

I certainly didn't mean to imply that the F-Series amps are superior amps in general. I agree with you 100% that tone is subjective and the "best" amp out there is going to be different for different people.

What I wrote was simply my opinion..."In my opinion, the F50 sounded superior OVERALL to the other amps that I had tried (for example, I may have preferred the Fender clean just slightly, but didn't like the distortion, so on the whole I preferred the F50)." I should have stated explicitly that this was simply my experience and my opinion...my apologies.

The fact is, I'm not sure the F50 is the perfect amp for me. Out of those I compared it to that were in my price range, it was my favorite. If money was no object, and/or I had the opportunity to try out a larger variety of amps, I'm pretty certain I would have something different. But I've got the rest of my life to buy a Plexi, right?? (though just to complement the F50...doubt I'll ever sell it. ;) )