Mesa F-series Lounge. Come on in and share your secrets. [Archive] - Page 10 - Harmony Central Musician Community Forums

markmann

07-24-2006, 11:49 AM

Originally posted by Lt_Core
I received my Volume Box on Friday and I'm very dissapointed. It does not work at all as described. The simple 2 1/4" TS plugs works better.

Using my effects loop on my Mesa F-50 (with the effects knob set to 90%) it's only a glorified on/off knob. If off is around 8 o'clock, then around 9 - 9:30 o'clock the amp is on and anything past that sounds the same.

I tried it at a gig last night and I definitely couldn't crank up my amp and use this as a volume control. I have the amp send going into the Volume Box In and the Out going to the effects return. This was the only thing in the loop while I was testing it. Am I missing something here?

Also, the 2 1/4" TS plugs attenuation trick works great for the overdrive channel but it totally robs the clean channel of any power/volume. I tried cranking the clean channel all the way to the right but I could barely get above the drummer's volume. With the 2 1/4" TS plugs out it works great and with the overdrive channel it's great.

I would appreciate any tips or insight to my problems. Other than that last night was my 2nd gig with the F-50. I love the overdrive channel. Fantastic! Definitely don't need many pedals to make this baby shine! It sounds like either the unit you bought isn't wired the same as my box or something else isn't right. When I use my home-made box the knob on the box lowers the volume of both channels as you turn it counter-clockwise. The box should do nothing to screw with the tone or cause the volume to be uneven between the channels. I can adjust from full to very low volume with no trouble. Check the schematic from the earlier posts to see if yours is wired the same.

I also don't understand why using the 1/4 plugs would rob the clean channel of power and volume. Has anyone else experienced this problem or is this an isolated case?

Lt_Core

07-24-2006, 11:52 AM

Follow-up to my volume box problem. The guy that I bought it from emailed me today and said it was made for amps with a standard effects loop and that it doesn't work well with parallel effects loops, which the F-50 has. He's going to refund my money, which is nice.

markmann

07-24-2006, 11:58 AM

Originally posted by dotlikeimpact
This might have been discussed somewhere along the line, but at 113 pages...

I'm seriously considering an F-50 combo, as I really liked the sound of it when I demo'ed it. Two concerns of mine, though.

1) Weight (which is actually really reasonable on these). I live on the third floor of a walk up building in Chicago. I would like to get away with the lightest thing I can.

2) I play primarily clean. And rather loud. I can't always mic, and I have been playing with real slamming drummers of late. The headroom was okay when I tried it out, but I'm used to 100 watters, which aren't practical because of my first concern (50+ lbs for a head!!!!).

So, the obvious thing here would be to try the amp out with a more efficient speaker. I'm eyeing neodymium-based speakers because of their high efficiency and low weight. Anyone have experience with the Celestion G12 Century or Jensen Neo 100-12? The Celestion is pricier, but has a much higher sensitivity rating (102dB vs. 98.8dB). How do they sound? Unfortunately, these aren't often available to try before purchase, and not with the particular amp either. I went the separate head route for the same reason. I have the f50 head and two 1x12 mesa cab's with c90's. When I need to travel light I use only one of the cab's which allows me to carry the head in one hand and a cab in the other and eliminates crooked spine syndrome :thu: IMO, the c90 is a great match with the f50 head and handles the power with ease, the second cab is really only a luxury.

markmann

07-24-2006, 12:19 PM

Originally posted by Natek
... Next question: What is the most practical and MOST transparent means of lowering the volume a tad when playing inside? Some said a volume pedal works but I just can't believe that. Would a simple THD/Weber attenuator be the way to go? anything else?

Last question: As for effects, I've read that the G-Major works VERY well with the MXR dyncomp in front. What would be better sound quality for the same amount of money? the G-major, or a string of stomp boxes out in front (delay, chorus, noise supressor, ect.)? I know the G-major has a plethora of effects, but I really want a quality transparent sound.
Don't worry about attenuation too much because all of the methods mentioned work very well. Decide how you want to run your effects and attenuate accordingly. If you run a multi-effect unit in the loop chances are it will double as an attenuator. If you run effects out front then one of the simple volume devices in the loop work well and can cost next to nothing. My point would be not to buy a rack effector just because you can attenuate volume with it. Also, IMO the Dynocomp is not transparent... it does sound excellent with the f50 but when I want a transparent compressor I use a Barber Tonepress.

EFFECTS: One way is not cleaner or more transparent than the other, it really boils down to personal preference. Also, you can spend a lot on either approach. I own several rack effect processors as well as many stomp boxes and each has their strong and weak points, you really need to try each or do some research to determine which is right for you.

freaksho

07-24-2006, 03:00 PM

so i'm in the process of talking my rhythm guitar player in to getting an F-50 combo.
if i succeed do i qualify for membership in the lounge?

Jaggery

07-24-2006, 03:53 PM

Hi all,

Reverb just went out on my F-50 combo.

Any thing I can check at home before taking to the shop?

Thanks

hal9000

07-24-2006, 05:29 PM

Originally posted by Jaggery
Hi all,

Reverb just went out on my F-50 combo.

Any thing I can check at home before taking to the shop?

Thanks You might want to check that the reverb switch on the footswitch isn't pressed. And, you can also disconnect the footswitch cable which will have the same effect as turning reverb on. The reverb in the F-50 is SS, so there is no tube to replace. Finally, you can check to make sure that the reverb send and return lines are securely fastened to both the chassis and the tank.

forgottenking

07-24-2006, 05:33 PM

I am a happy owner of an F-30 I have had it for a year now. I have learned a lot from this forum and I just wanted to extend my gratitude to all of you who have spent countless hours tweaking these amp series. I really have no question that has not been answered here already so just keep rocking.

Thanks

-Me

Jaggery

07-24-2006, 05:52 PM

Originally posted by hal9000
You might want to check that the reverb switch on the footswitch isn't pressed. And, you can also disconnect the footswitch cable which will have the same effect as turning reverb on. The reverb in the F-50 is SS, so there is no tube to replace. Finally, you can check to make sure that the reverb send and return lines are securely fastened to both the chassis and the tank.

Thanks, I check all these. Seems ok.

It was working yesterday, put it on today and it wasnt.

Only thing I can think of is that there was a medium loud pop and momentary the volume reduced and it was back up again. Wasnt using rverb at that time, so cant say if it had something to do with it.

anyways, thanks.

Will take it to the shop.

benlink

07-25-2006, 06:49 AM

just a stupid question but......
is it possible to switch from a clean on an F50 to a lead with the contour mode already activated by the footswitch?
or do you need to be on channel 2 to activate the contour mode?

Dann'sTheMan

07-25-2006, 07:15 AM

Originally posted by benlink
just a stupid question but......
is it possible to switch from a clean on an F50 to a lead with the contour mode already activated by the footswitch?
or do you need to be on channel 2 to activate the contour mode?

Yep it's possible. When changing from the clean channel, the amp will switch to the last mode used on the dirty channel. :cool:

Big smiles,

Andy.

hal9000

07-25-2006, 08:21 AM

Originally posted by forgottenking
I am a happy owner of an F-30 I have had it for a year now. I have learned a lot from this forum and I just wanted to extend my gratitude to all of you who have spent countless hours tweaking these amp series. I really have no question that has not been answered here already so just keep rocking.

Thanks

-Me Forgottenking, welcome to the forum and the F-series Brotherhood! :)

I'm glad you had a chance to seek out the information here as it's a one stop shop for all things F-series. If you haven't done so, also read the manual for good insight into the design. I particularly like the review and interview by Guitarist magazine about the F-50 which lead me to the F-series 3.5 years ago: http://www.mesaboogie.com/Reviews/guitarist-F-50/Guitarist_f-50.htm
http://www.mesaboogie.com/Reviews/guitarist-F-50/Designing_f-50.htm

Please, tell us more about the music you play, the guitars you use and how you employ your F-30.

forgottenking

07-25-2006, 08:49 AM

Hey Hal,

Thanks for the warm welcome. I've been playing the guitar on and off for about 9 years, After 4 years of struggling to go the original route my former band split up. Now, along with some friends from the music school I used to teach at, I have put together another band and we do covers. Not a bad deal at all. Private parties pay well in Houston. But really, that's just GAS money (pun intended) . We are in it for the fun of it, we all have day jobs and I am also going to college (you're never too old to start).

I use my F-30 along with a Fender Deluxe Reverb (recent purchase) for a stereo set up. I feed the pre-amp of the F-30 into the Channel 1 of the Fender while still bringing it to the return... I am horrible with this kinds of explanations I could post an image if you'd like. The end result is that, even in the dirty channel I have a blendable clean signal simultaneously which adds for clarity. (See attached image for diagram)

I have an Ibanez S-470 with a DiMarzio tone zone in the bridge a Duncan Jazz in the neck and Duncan Hotrails in the middle. Also, a 72 reissue thinline telecaster (stock), a mexican telecaster with Texas Specials and a Schecter C-1 Elite (stock). Then the usual, a schecter Elite 4 bass, a Takamine F-341 acoustic, some crappy casio "workstation", and more low end gear not worth mentioning.

Once again thanks for the welcome and I will see you guys around.

hal9000

07-25-2006, 09:12 AM

Originally posted by forgottenking
Hey Hal,

Thanks for the warm welcome. I've been playing the guitar on and off for about 9 years, After 4 years of struggling to go the original route my former band split up. Now, along with some friends from the music school I used to teach at, I have put together another band and we do covers. Not a bad deal at all. Private parties pay well in Houston. But really, that's just GAS money (pun intended) . We are in it for the fun of it, we all have day jobs and I am also going to college (you're never too old to start).

I use my F-30 along with a Fender Deluxe Reverb (recent purchase) for a stereo set up. I feed the pre-amp of the F-30 into the Channel 1 of the Fender while still bringing it to the return... I am horrible with this kinds of explanations I could post an image if you'd like. The end result is that, even in the dirty channel I have a blendable clean signal simultaneously which adds for clarity. (See attached image for diagram)

I have an Ibanez S-470 with a DiMarzio tone zone in the bridge a Duncan Jazz in the neck and Duncan Hotrails in the middle. Also, a 72 reissue thinline telecaster (stock), a mexican telecaster with Texas Specials and a Schecter C-1 Elite (stock). Then the usual, a schecter Elite 4 bass, a Takamine F-341 acoustic, some crappy casio "workstation", and more low end gear not worth mentioning.

Once again thanks for the welcome and I will see you guys around. That's an interesting setup you have there. If you'd like to host the pic at www.photobucket.com you can embed it into your posts like I do all the time.

From your setup, I gather that when you want to use true stereo FX, you must switch the Fender to the normal channel which is technically the F-30's preamp and all the FX in the loop. I bet that sounds neat. Otherwise, it's just the clean signal going to the Fender from the FX out front. I imagine that sounds nice as well. BTW, how do you like the clean tones on the F-30?

In my setup (sig) you can see that I run only a G-Major in the loop of my F-100 which is in mono. I have run stereo FX to another amp and cab which is a lot of fun. I've also run wet/dry.

forgottenking

07-25-2006, 09:27 AM

I really like the Cleans on the F-30. There's not much headroom (it breaks up with the master above 12:00 unless the gain is WAY down) but I only run into that problem on outdoor gigs (like the party comming up in August) but that's fixed by micking (sp?) the amps otherwise is great. Much darker than the Fender. Which makes them both a great compliment, they are not fighting for frequency in the mix but fatten each other up. Another option I have on that set up. Because the Channels on the fender are not really switchable I could run them both simultaneously, hence having the dirty coming form the F-30, the pre amp from the mesa (coming from the delay) fed into the dry channel of the Fender (so that would be another distortion) and the vibrato channel (with the vibrato switched off) clean with very low volume. That, in my opinion, gives the ilussion of a tighter, more defined sound, even at high gain settings.

I am still experimenting with what I can do. This originated from my lack of funds to buy an ABY box when I bought the amp, so I've been playing McGiver for the past few days seing what sounds best.

forgottenking

07-25-2006, 09:32 AM

I'll test the imagery thing now:

http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n161/forgottenking/Pedals.jpg

Dann'sTheMan

07-25-2006, 10:08 AM

Originally posted by forgottenking
I'll test the imagery thing now:

http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n161/forgottenking/Pedals.jpg

Welcome to the F-series brotherhood, forgottenking!

That's a sweet looking rig you have there - it must sound huge! If you ever record any clips, then please don't hesitate to share. :) I have no doubt that your Fender and Boogie compliment each other beautifully. :thu:

Big smiles,

Andy.

forgottenking

07-25-2006, 10:21 AM

Hey man, Thanks!! I live in an apartment and I don't own any decent mics (not to mention I'd get evicted if I try to crank those monsters here) I could go line in but that would suck. But if I ever get a chance to record (we've been talking about putting together a demo <another shot at the original stuff> for a while but nothing has happened so far. We'll see how it goes. In any case, as soon as I have clips, I'll make sure to post them.

Lt_Core

07-25-2006, 10:26 AM

Originally posted by hal9000
This is where I have my amp set a lot of the time. On the clean channel I use my Fat Strat on the middle single coil, and the overdrive channel I use my Ravelle with an SD Custom in the bridge. With the gain and master of each channel set this way, they are pretty close to the same output:

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y34/afraiddave/hal9000sF-SeriesAuditionsettingsBCMR.jpg

Do these settings resemble yours at all? What kind of guitar and pickups are you using with the amp?

My settings are pretty close to yours, but the OD channel's gain is around 10-11 o'clock. Yours is a bit higher. I'll test out your settings tonight. Need to have the wife and kids out so I don't deafen them ;)

As far as guitars go, I have a 2006 Ibanez SZ720 with Ibanez/Duncan stock pups and a 2005 Fender Highway 1 Telecaster with stock pups. Trying to find the best way to boost my Tele signal because the pups are not as hot as the Ibanez.

markmann

07-25-2006, 02:17 PM

Originally posted by Alchemist
Hey guys, I finaly got my F-30 jazz-fusion rig finished. Clips to come in the future.

I am using my GT-8 as one would a G-Major, and using its extra looping to run the tuner and my maxon phase tone as needed.... and a Maxon OD808 boosting the front end.

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a219/Alchemist88/Picture242.jpg I'm looking forward to hearing some of your clips, I've heard good things about the GT-8 and I assume it sounds great with the f30. Have you been able to make use of any of the Boss distortions? What's your impression of the unit in general so far?

forgottenking

07-25-2006, 09:56 PM

I used to have a GT-6 and run it through the F-30. The modulation and time effects sounded great, the pitch shifting and harmonist were decent. I never really used the distortions much. I sold it one time when I got mad at it because after having put 100 hours programing the thing and getting it perfect the memory died and I lost 150 presets. It was then when I decided that programming was a bit much for me and switched to stompboxes :)

SandmaN211

07-26-2006, 05:00 AM

Hi everyone, ive been to my local guitar shop at least twice and i still cant decide whether to get an f-30 or f-50, im slightly leaning towards the f-50 cause it has a more "hollow" (dont know how to descirbe it) sound which i like and doesn't sound like an ss amp at some settings.
i wasn't able to crank up the volume on the 2 amps cause it was a quiet day and im too embrassed to play loud :(

anyways i like the f-50 but i dont know if i need that much wattage for for bedroom/house use, im joining a small band next year so the f-50 is ideal but i heard the f-30 can still be loud enough.

Iced Tea

07-26-2006, 06:49 AM

Originally posted by SandmaN211
Hi everyone, ive been to my local guitar shop at least twice and i still cant decide whether to get an f-30 or f-50, im slightly leaning towards the f-50 cause it has a more "hollow" (dont know how to descirbe it) sound which i like and doesn't sound like an ss amp at some settings.
i wasn't able to crank up the volume on the 2 amps cause it was a quiet day and im too embrassed to play loud :(

anyways i like the f-50 but i dont know if i need that much wattage for for bedroom/house use, im joining a small band next year so the f-50 is ideal but i heard the f-30 can still be loud enough.

Hi SandmaN. I will warn you the F-50 is very loud for bedroom use. You will not be able to get the good sound unless you use an attenuation trick as explained earlier in these posts (see HAL 9000). But for gigs, as long as you can get her master past 9:00 she smokes (otherwise distortion is "buzzy"). I am seriously considering also getting an F30 to join my F50 for some of the smaller places I play 'cause I am so hooked on the F Series sound. I also like the British flavor of the F30 to augment the more American sound of the F50. Anyway, go back to the music story and crank those puppies past 9:00 - F 'em if they don't like it! :evil: so you can really see what they can do! Good luck.

Lt_Core

07-26-2006, 07:26 AM

markmann

07-26-2006, 07:28 AM

Originally posted by forgottenking
I used to have a GT-6 and run it through the F-30. The modulation and time effects sounded great, the pitch shifting and harmonist were decent. I never really used the distortions much. I sold it one time when I got mad at it because after having put 100 hours programing the thing and getting it perfect the memory died and I lost 150 presets. It was then when I decided that programming was a bit much for me and switched to stompboxes :) Yeah, I love my pedals and I don't think I'll ever ditch them but there are times when I can't use an amp for certain gigs and I'm forced to use some form of preamp or modeling direct to mixer. It occured to me that something like the GT-8 might fit the bill since it has effects and amp models in one unit, and if I happened to use the effects with my f50 it would be a bonus.

benlink

07-26-2006, 07:46 AM

Hy! first thank you for all your advises...and I need one more...lol...
so I was actually going for a F50 head...I live in france and well as the F series are the less expensive(but still great amps), it was a good solution...
so the price would be about 1300 euros(still more expensive than in US but in Europe it's a good price for it...) but I can have a single rectifier for about 1450 euros...(the rectoverb is much more expensive..1670 euros..)
the thing is I'm not a great fan of using pedals.....so with the F50...a little tubescreamer or boost would be enough....
the single rectifier does not have reverb.....but it has this recto tone...
so for instance I play mostly metal...(metallica all periods essentially...) but I would not like to buy another amp if I want to play more acdc style, lynnrd skynnrd etc....
and as I've seen on grailtone.com that the single could do some cool acdc crunch...I've got to admit that I'm hesitating between the two...

BluePowder7

07-26-2006, 07:49 AM

KT-66 tubes!!!

now that i have some of your attention, has anyone tried running KT-66's in the F50? i know that they'll draw a fair bit more heater current than a standard 6L6 will, but is the power transformer up to the task? will they sound "wrong" in that amp?

Surfcaster

07-26-2006, 09:01 AM

Originally posted by benlink
Hy! first thank you for all your advises...and I need one more...lol...
so I was actually going for a F50 head...I live in france and well as the F series are the less expensive(but still great amps), it was a good solution...
so the price would be about 1300 euros(still more expensive than in US but in Europe it's a good price for it...) but I can have a single rectifier for about 1450 euros...(the rectoverb is much more expensive..1670 euros..)
the thing is I'm not a great fan of using pedals.....so with the F50...a little tubescreamer or boost would be enough....
the single rectifier does not have reverb.....but it has this recto tone...
so for instance I play mostly metal...(metallica all periods essentially...) but I would not like to buy another amp if I want to play more acdc style, lynnrd skynnrd etc....
and as I've seen on grailtone.com that the single could do some cool acdc crunch...I've got to admit that I'm hesitating between the two...

To be honest, if I were you and played mostly Metallica, and the price is that close, I'd go with the rectifier. If you really want reverb, you can buy a reverb pedal (in fact, I don't really like the F50-s reverb all that well...at least for the clean channel, is does work fine for higher gain sounds. Short story...I will end up buying a reverb pedal here to use with the F50 anyway). Anyway, I'm not familiar with the Single Rec, so I don't know how well it does lower gain sounds...the F50 does that very well, but I think the SR will better suit your Metallica sounds.

Natek

07-26-2006, 09:12 PM

Okay I'm quite hesitant on purchasing the G-major for an effects unit as it seems it is the least bit user friendly:( I'll admit, everything about seems promissing (quality of effects, use of attenuation, ect.) but I just don't have the time to twist, punch, and turn knobs for hour after hour to get what I want. I took a look at the online user manual and I was pretty confused about ALOT of its functions. Anyone's thoughts about it's programibility?

forgottenking

07-26-2006, 09:49 PM

I learned the GT-6 in a year and the parameters and midi commands are somewhat simmilar. I think the GT-6 was a bit more friendly when it came time to assign paramters to switches, expression pedals and such. But like I said before, even though I knew it well. The programming got to me. IMO you can't beat the tweakability of single pedals. Even if you use a lot of different settings on an effect in the same set (I hardly ever have to bend down to change stuff around) There are some nice effects with presets that require minimum programming. (the key for me I guess is to stay away from all those commands and such... weird since I'm an IT tech... I'm suposed to love that stuff right? NOT!)

forgottenking

07-26-2006, 10:00 PM

I have a question. Will my set up have adverse effects to the Fender amp at high volumes (like at a gig) I have been wondering about that since I'm feeding the mesa pre-amp mix at 50% into the normal channel 2 (-6db) It's suposed to work with "pre-amplified" instruments but I don't think the way I'm using it is exactly the way they intended it. Can anyone give me ideas? Sugestions? Comments? I am kinda freaked out 'cause I don't want to blow that amp at its first gig (it's a new arrival to my set up)

Lt_Core

07-26-2006, 11:54 PM

Originally posted by hal9000
This is where I have my amp set a lot of the time. On the clean channel I use my Fat Strat on the middle single coil, and the overdrive channel I use my Ravelle with an SD Custom in the bridge. With the gain and master of each channel set this way, they are pretty close to the same output:

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y34/afraiddave/hal9000sF-SeriesAuditionsettingsBCMR.jpg

Do these settings resemble yours at all? What kind of guitar and pickups are you using with the amp?

Just got back from practice. Great settings! I pulled back the OD channel gain to about 11 o'clock and it was still nice and crunchy. Clean channel was pretty nice too. Pretty even volumes.

We have a show on Saturday so I'll be mindful of the volume differences. Oh, I kicked on my OCD pedal when I used my clean channel. Got some great vintage, slightly broken up tones. Level and Tone around 11 o'clock. Drive around 9:30 or so. Very tasty!

Thanks for your help!

Dann'sTheMan

07-27-2006, 04:33 AM

SandmaN211

07-27-2006, 05:57 AM

Originally posted by Iced Tea

Hi SandmaN. I will warn you the F-50 is very loud for bedroom use. You will not be able to get the good sound unless you use an attenuation trick as explained earlier in these posts (see HAL 9000). But for gigs, as long as you can get her master past 9:00 she smokes (otherwise distortion is "buzzy"). I am seriously considering also getting an F30 to join my F50 for some of the smaller places I play 'cause I am so hooked on the F Series sound. I also like the British flavor of the F30 to augment the more American sound of the F50. Anyway, go back to the music story and crank those puppies past 9:00 - F 'em if they don't like it! :evil: so you can really see what they can do! Good luck.

yea i know about the fx loop trick but is it bad for the amp if you keep doing it? seems like ur stopping what the amp suppose to do which is to be loud

plumptone

07-27-2006, 06:07 AM

Morning, bothers.

I finally got to give my new F-50 a thorough work-out last night in a full band setting. (Vacations and work-load have prevented any serious experimentation since I picked her up a couple of weeks ago.)

I have been able to satisfactorily dial in superb tone in both channels with my strat and tele at home - although not at gigging volumes: shimmering clean all the way to bone crushing overdive and searing, singing leads. The clean channel is the real gem on this amp with my single coils - it's hands down the best I've ever heard - sounds almost too good to be true. With absolutely no effects in line it sounds like true studio quality clean guitar through racks and racks of high end processing. I am stunned. Anyway, last night I wanted to work it out with my PRS. I have a CE-22 with the Dragon II pickups. I don't use this guitar much (which is a shame, I know) because I'm really basically a strat player, and am in love with the strat sound, feel and vibe, but for some aplications only the PRS will do the job - I'm sure you guys know what I mean.

With the PRS the overdive - with and without contour is astonishing - completely articulate, very full sounding - all in all extremely satisfying. The cleans I was having a little trouble with.

I had the clean channel gain up around 1:00 to 1:30 (I do like a little bite), and my treble at around 2. Mid's were at approx 9:00 and bass was dialed in at 12:30. I got the best sound with the bright switch pulled, and with the master volume below 12:00 it sounded OK, but was still a bit dark. With the master above 12:00 it started to really break up. Not in a bad way - I mean this was a very cool sound), but not exactly what I was going for. I found that by reducung the gain, it cleaned up, but did seem to lose a little definition.

Anyone else with a similar set-up have any suggestions for a full but bright clean setting? (I should mention that I run a Dynacomp, and found that kicking that in did smooth things out a bit - but I hate to mess with the clean sound - it sounds so damn good without the compression.)

Any thoughts, comments or suggestions would be appreciated.

Surfcaster

07-27-2006, 08:27 AM

Originally posted by forgottenking
I have a question. Will my set up have adverse effects to the Fender amp at high volumes (like at a gig) I have been wondering about that since I'm feeding the mesa pre-amp mix at 50% into the normal channel 2 (-6db) It's suposed to work with "pre-amplified" instruments but I don't think the way I'm using it is exactly the way they intended it. Can anyone give me ideas? Sugestions? Comments? I am kinda freaked out 'cause I don't want to blow that amp at its first gig (it's a new arrival to my set up)

I seriously doubt you'd do any damage to the amp. If anything, if the signal is too hot it and overdrives the input stage it will just sound really nasty...and I really wouldn't expect that, either. It is just the preamp signal and as Andy mentions it's still a line level signal, so I'd think it'd be pretty much like running your guitar through a pedal before sending it to the amp. And even if you're playing at gigging levels, the preamp signal will have the same level as playing at bedroom levels.

Alchemist

07-27-2006, 11:08 AM

Alchemist

07-27-2006, 11:08 AM

Originally posted by markmann
I'm looking forward to hearing some of your clips, I've heard good things about the GT-8 and I assume it sounds great with the f30. Have you been able to make use of any of the Boss distortions? What's your impression of the unit in general so far?

I only use the GT8 as an effects processor and not modeler so I dont use the distortions. They dont sound too bad running into my Traynor combo though. The Vox, Matchless, Marshall 1959 and 5150 patches sound best though. Some of the Tweed ones arent too bad, and the soldano is alright as well.

forgottenking

07-27-2006, 11:55 PM

Thank you guys. That is what I thought but I wasn't sure. I dropped a line to Fender Customer support as well. I haven't gotten a reply yet.

I'll try it at practice and we'll see.

Tonemeister87

07-28-2006, 05:42 AM

This thread makes me want to buy an F-50, but it also makes me want to run away and not buy one :freak:

Dann'sTheMan

07-28-2006, 06:22 AM

Originally posted by Tonemeister69
This thread makes me want to buy an F-50, but it also makes me want to run away and not buy one :freak:

Don't be scared - Knowledge is Power! :cool:

Big smiles,

Andy.

markmann

07-28-2006, 07:57 AM

Originally posted by plumptone
Morning, bothers.

I finally got to give my new F-50 a thorough work-out last night in a full band setting. (Vacations and work-load have prevented any serious experimentation since I picked her up a couple of weeks ago.)

I have been able to satisfactorily dial in superb tone in both channels with my strat and tele at home - although not at gigging volumes: shimmering clean all the way to bone crushing overdive and searing, singing leads. The clean channel is the real gem on this amp with my single coils - it's hands down the best I've ever heard - sounds almost too good to be true. With absolutely no effects in line it sounds like true studio quality clean guitar through racks and racks of high end processing. I am stunned. Anyway, last night I wanted to work it out with my PRS. I have a CE-22 with the Dragon II pickups. I don't use this guitar much (which is a shame, I know) because I'm really basically a strat player, and am in love with the strat sound, feel and vibe, but for some aplications only the PRS will do the job - I'm sure you guys know what I mean.

With the PRS the overdive - with and without contour is astonishing - completely articulate, very full sounding - all in all extremely satisfying. The cleans I was having a little trouble with.

I had the clean channel gain up around 1:00 to 1:30 (I do like a little bite), and my treble at around 2. Mid's were at approx 9:00 and bass was dialed in at 12:30. I got the best sound with the bright switch pulled, and with the master volume below 12:00 it sounded OK, but was still a bit dark. With the master above 12:00 it started to really break up. Not in a bad way - I mean this was a very cool sound), but not exactly what I was going for. I found that by reducung the gain, it cleaned up, but did seem to lose a little definition.

Anyone else with a similar set-up have any suggestions for a full but bright clean setting? (I should mention that I run a Dynacomp, and found that kicking that in did smooth things out a bit - but I hate to mess with the clean sound - it sounds so damn good without the compression.)

Any thoughts, comments or suggestions would be appreciated. Couple questions: are you using the same amp settings for SC and HB pup's? Which HB pup are you using, bridge or neck? I'm not familiar with Dragon II's but I do have several HB loaded guitars and have no trouble with tones being too dark.

plumptone

07-28-2006, 08:09 AM

No, I'm not using the exact same settings. I rolled back that bass a tad, kept the mids the same, increased teble a little and pulled the bright switch.

I'm fussy about pickup selection, so it's all over the place - with the PRS you can split the coils etc in/out of phase. It's not really a huge deal, I think I just need to play around with it a bit more - not really a lot of time for farting around when the whole band is there to run through material. It was basically very satisfactoty - just not as much "wow" as I got from the SC pups. I was basically just wondering if there were others out there with a similar model gtr who could just point me in the right direction.

Thanks for the response though.

Dann'sTheMan

07-28-2006, 08:21 AM

Originally posted by plumptone
Morning, bothers.

I finally got to give my new F-50 a thorough work-out last night in a full band setting. (Vacations and work-load have prevented any serious experimentation since I picked her up a couple of weeks ago.)

I have been able to satisfactorily dial in superb tone in both channels with my strat and tele at home - although not at gigging volumes: shimmering clean all the way to bone crushing overdive and searing, singing leads. The clean channel is the real gem on this amp with my single coils - it's hands down the best I've ever heard - sounds almost too good to be true. With absolutely no effects in line it sounds like true studio quality clean guitar through racks and racks of high end processing. I am stunned. Anyway, last night I wanted to work it out with my PRS. I have a CE-22 with the Dragon II pickups. I don't use this guitar much (which is a shame, I know) because I'm really basically a strat player, and am in love with the strat sound, feel and vibe, but for some aplications only the PRS will do the job - I'm sure you guys know what I mean.

With the PRS the overdive - with and without contour is astonishing - completely articulate, very full sounding - all in all extremely satisfying. The cleans I was having a little trouble with.

I had the clean channel gain up around 1:00 to 1:30 (I do like a little bite), and my treble at around 2. Mid's were at approx 9:00 and bass was dialed in at 12:30. I got the best sound with the bright switch pulled, and with the master volume below 12:00 it sounded OK, but was still a bit dark. With the master above 12:00 it started to really break up. Not in a bad way - I mean this was a very cool sound), but not exactly what I was going for. I found that by reducung the gain, it cleaned up, but did seem to lose a little definition.

Anyone else with a similar set-up have any suggestions for a full but bright clean setting? (I should mention that I run a Dynacomp, and found that kicking that in did smooth things out a bit - but I hate to mess with the clean sound - it sounds so damn good without the compression.)

Any thoughts, comments or suggestions would be appreciated.

Hi plumptone,

What pick up combination are you using on your PRS for the clean sound? I tend to use position 9 on the 5 way rotary selector for the Dragon IIs in my Custom 22 (however I have been on quite the neck HB/pos 6 trip lately). With my PRS, I find that it's naturally a very bright and present tone. I usually have to turn down the treble knob compared to my settings for my dark and woody Charvel Strat. The end result is an EQ setting similar to the Single Coil Blackface Clean setting in hal9000's sig. :thu:

I usually have the Gain around the 2 o'clock mark if I'm going straight into the amp, or if I'm using my Dynacomp, then I'll back the gain off to 9 o'clock, and run the Dynacomp close to max output, and the sensitivity around 10 o'clock. :cool:

Do you have any examples of the kind of tone you're going after with your PRS? :)

Big smiles,

Andy.

plumptone

07-28-2006, 08:35 AM

Hey Andy.

Good questions. Like you, for most of my clean sounds I'm using the 9 and 6 positions, with a preference for the 6 position. The tone I'm really trying to get after is something close to the second and fourth position on a strat - and I know I could just use the strat. It's just that having the versatility to flip over to full-on HB agression for the solos is sometimes what I need. Basically a clean, sharp sound - I guess a little jangly - although this guitar really can't pull that off exactly.

Anyway, as I said in my original post, I am probably running the clean channel gain in the 1:30 range. With the dynacomp engaged, things are definitely more tapered and less "barky", but without it, it get's a bit muddy. I generally run my comp with the compression close to max, and roll back the output - but with the HBs maybe I should be taking a bit more compression out of it and rolling that off.

I've always found the PRS to be a bit dirtier than I like, and generally darker than my other gtrs, which I guess I why I don't use it a lot - but hearing it through the F-50 in channel 2 makes me want to start using it more often.

I guess I should mention that my strats don't have standard pups - one is a strat plus with the lace sensors (which I LOVE)and the other has the vintage nioseless, which are definitely quiet but are not high output by any stretch of the imagination. Neither one sounds as hot as the PRS in channel 2 of the amp.

I'm rambling. I think I just have to spend a bit more time with it, and I'm probably going to have to roll back the gain a bit and try to find my sweet spot.

BluePowder7

07-28-2006, 08:50 AM

Originally posted by BluePowder7
KT-66 tubes!!!

now that i have some of your attention, has anyone tried running KT-66's in the F50? i know that they'll draw a fair bit more heater current than a standard 6L6 will, but is the power transformer up to the task? will they sound "wrong" in that amp?

:confused:

hal9000

07-28-2006, 09:07 AM

Originally posted by BluePowder7

:confused: I'm thinking a call to Mesa is in order. You'll have to wait until Monday though. :(

Dann'sTheMan

07-28-2006, 09:27 AM

Originally posted by plumptone
Hey Andy.

Good questions. Like you, for most of my clean sounds I'm using the 9 and 6 positions, with a preference for the 6 position. The tone I'm really trying to get after is something close to the second and fourth position on a strat - and I know I could just use the strat. It's just that having the versatility to flip over to full-on HB agression for the solos is sometimes what I need. Basically a clean, sharp sound - I guess a little jangly - although this guitar really can't pull that off exactly.

Anyway, as I said in my original post, I am probably running the clean channel gain in the 1:30 range. With the dynacomp engaged, things are definitely more tapered and less "barky", but without it, it get's a bit muddy. I generally run my comp with the compression close to max, and roll back the output - but with the HBs maybe I should be taking a bit more compression out of it and rolling that off.

I've always found the PRS to be a bit dirtier than I like, and generally darker than my other gtrs, which I guess I why I don't use it a lot - but hearing it through the F-50 in channel 2 makes me want to start using it more often.

I guess I should mention that my strats don't have standard pups - one is a strat plus with the lace sensors (which I LOVE)and the other has the vintage nioseless, which are definitely quiet but are not high output by any stretch of the imagination. Neither one sounds as hot as the PRS in channel 2 of the amp.

I'm rambling. I think I just have to spend a bit more time with it, and I'm probably going to have to roll back the gain a bit and try to find my sweet spot.

Hi plumptone,

It seems we have quite similar tastes. :thu:

If it's a strat position 2 or 4 tone you're after, then I suspect you may have better joy using PRS's position 9 (or maybe 7). I can get a fair amount of jangle out of my Custom 22, and to my ears the 24 fret PRSs, and the CEs in particular, are even more strattish on those split coil settings. Conversely, I tend to use PRS position 6 for dialling in that full fat neck humbucker tone, and I've dialled in a particularly juicy one recently (combined with the Dynacomp) - I'll try to remember to post it. :)

Regarding strats, I also don't use pure single coils in my mine. :p I run stacked humbuckers (Seymour Duncan Classic Stacks) in my Charvel, and I love the woody nature to the tone. It's actually darker than my PRS. :eek:

Do continue to experiment, and do try turning the sensitivity right down on your Dynacomp and use the output to boost your F-50's clean channel (I understand the old units had a higher output). I've been able to find F-50 clean sounds with my PRS that I'm more than happy with, and of course, it has those incredibly fat and ballsy distortion tones on tap. :cool:

Big smiles,

Andy.

Mush

07-28-2006, 10:45 AM

How would you hook up a Diamond memory lane analog delay ?

I got it yesterday and I am not sure how to hook it up to my F-50 effect loop.

On that pedal, there is a Delay Only output (that bypass the pedal own mix/direct control) that according to the manual should be used with parallel effects loop. When I set it up using that method, I have to adjust the amp FX loop control to balance the the strenght of the delays signals (ie subtility of repreats). This is not very usefull to reach the back of the amp.

I can hook the pedal Mix/Direct ouput to the FX return and use the pedal Mix/dry control. In that way, I got the control of the sound at my feet, but considering the amp paralel loop only goes to 90%, there is always a little direct signal bleeding thru.

Does some of you FX loop masters can shed more light on the appropriate approach to hook the pedal.

Thanks

Mush

Lt_Core

07-28-2006, 12:27 PM

Has anyone ever used any of the following pedals with the F-50?

Seymour Duncan SFX-01 Booster: to boost my Tele to match my Ibanez's output.

BBE Boosta Grande: same thing as above.

Boss DS-1 Ultra Mod (Keeley mod): I have a DS-1 laying around that I got free from a friend. Is it worth spending $75 to get this pedal upgraded to Marshall-esque tone qualities? Vai and Satriani use this mod on their pedals. I have a Fulltone OCD which I use for more vintage/overdrive sounds on the clean channel.

http://www.robertkeeley.com/product.php?id=10

I appreciate any and all comments.

cacheek

07-28-2006, 04:09 PM

Has anybody tried changing the speakers and tubes to get more of that rectifier bottom end umph? If so, did it work and what did you use? I'm playing the F100 2x12

Mush

07-28-2006, 04:16 PM

Fuck !

Is anyone going to help me...

There is already two questions after me ....

Kind of way to bump.

Mush

Torh

07-28-2006, 06:32 PM

This thread has become quite active the last few days now :)

To all Weber MiniMass owners : the turning knob for the attenuation level, is it - sort of - "sticking out" of the device ? Mine is ridicously far out, and I can't really believe it is supposed to be like this...

Here's a pic:
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i120/Torjoh87/236fcc28.jpg

hal9000

07-28-2006, 06:42 PM

Originally posted by Mush
How would you hook up a Diamond memory lane analog delay ?

I got it yesterday and I am not sure how to hook it up to my F-50 effect loop.

On that pedal, there is a Delay Only output (that bypass the pedal own mix/direct control) that according to the manual should be used with parallel effects loop. When I set it up using that method, I have to adjust the amp FX loop control to balance the the strenght of the delays signals (ie subtility of repreats). This is not very usefull to reach the back of the amp.

I can hook the pedal Mix/Direct ouput to the FX return and use the pedal Mix/dry control. In that way, I got the control of the sound at my feet, but considering the amp paralel loop only goes to 90%, there is always a little direct signal bleeding thru.

Does some of you FX loop masters can shed more light on the appropriate approach to hook the pedal.

Thanks

Mush The correct way to hook up the pedal is what works best for you. :)

I've run delay both with the loop maxed and at 50% or so. If it's a stomp box delay that isn't so great at the loop level, then it's better to run it with the pedal mix maxed, and the amp's FX mix wherever it sounds best. In my case, since I have a G-Major which works great with the loop, I run the mix up at 90%. For me though, I never really messed with the mix level when I was running a stomp box delay, so I prefered to have the mix at a fixed level.

ashjn

07-28-2006, 07:36 PM

I run the Delay output maxed on my delay pedal and then the loop is set at about 50-60%

Lt_Core

07-28-2006, 08:19 PM

I have to run delay and chorus in the regular pedal chain until I can get a decent attenuator. Using the 2 1/4" TS plugs for now.

Ogi-wan

07-30-2006, 02:54 PM

Hallo, I'm pretty new when it comes to electric guitars (or simply guitars, for that matter).

I've been playing an F-30, having upgraded from a Marshall AVT50. The F-30 is warm and alive compared to the AVT50, which I suppose is a feature of having all tubes vs. solid state.

But the F-30 has quite its own sound. Missing that "Marshall sound", I tried out a Fulltone OCD through the F-30's clean channel. It sounds great and gives me tones that I can't get from the F-30 alone.

Listening closely, I noticed that playing through the OCD (with it "on", of course) lacks warmth as compared to playing with the pedal "off". It's almost like going back to solid state.

Do my ears deceive me? If my experience-challenged brain is right about this, can I expect this loss of warmth with all (or most) pedals?

Alchemist

07-30-2006, 03:33 PM

Originally posted by Ogi-wan
Hallo, I'm pretty new when it comes to electric guitars (or simply guitars, for that matter).

I've been playing an F-30, having upgraded from a Marshall AVT50. The F-30 is warm and alive compared to the AVT50, which I suppose is a feature of having all tubes vs. solid state.

But the F-30 has quite its own sound. Missing that "Marshall sound", I tried out a Fulltone OCD through the F-30's clean channel. It sounds great and gives me tones that I can't get from the F-30 alone.

Listening closely, I noticed that playing through the OCD (with it "on", of course) lacks warmth as compared to playing with the pedal "off". It's almost like going back to solid state.

Do my ears deceive me? If my experience-challenged brain is right about this, can I expect this loss of warmth with all (or most) pedals?

Each pedal is different, but many BOOST pedals, especialy those based around a TS808 circuit will have an effect on your mids, and will generaly cut a little bass. This is desireable for leads because it will keep you from getting muddy, but yes you will feel a slight loss of warmth. You should try some different pedals, as well try some EQ pedals, and maybe even a treble booster. You should stumble onto a combination which suits your specific needs.

bowen71

07-30-2006, 04:35 PM

Originally posted by Torh
This thread has become quite active the last few days now :)

To all Weber MiniMass owners : the turning knob for the attenuation level, is it - sort of - "sticking out" of the device ? Mine is ridicously far out, and I can't really believe it is supposed to be like this...

Here's a pic:
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i120/Torjoh87/236fcc28.jpg

Thats exactly how mine looks. Must be normal because it works.

UsrName

07-30-2006, 07:17 PM

I have been test driving my F-30 for the past few days alone and with a basic 212 cab with peavey XXX speakers, which are supposed to be V30 copies at 100w each for a total of 200w.

The combo itself souds fine, although lacking the tight bottom end of a closed back cab, which I expect. When I replace the combo speaker with the 212 cab via the 8hom load jack, it seems to be really "woofy" in the low end department. It's not an oversized cab and not ported in any way and I have tried running the bass at a minimum and also the treble a little higher, even to about 3 o'clock with the mid at various settings between 9 and 11 o'clock.

For the F-30 users, has anyone else experienced this, what speaker, speaker/cab combo are you using and what is recommeded for this combo.

All styles sound fine to me except tight metal, which is almost there. I have a strat fitted with a Duncan Distortion, which is a very tight pickup with trimmed bass output.

Is an eq in order here? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

1longhorn

07-30-2006, 07:21 PM

hello all...
i've been without an amp for several months now, but in a couple of weeks i'll finally get an f-50...
i've got to get a power attenuator for the sanity of my housemates...today i test drove a marshall power brake with an f-50 and it sounded like it would do the trick...any opinions?, suggestions?...
note:
1. i'm certain this has been asked before and i'm going through the lounge...on page 9...
2. i'm playing an ibanez 1527...
thanks in advance...

BluePowder7

07-30-2006, 07:59 PM

andershoeg

07-31-2006, 01:20 AM

Originally posted by UsrName
I have been test driving my F-30 for the past few days alone and with a basic 212 cab with peavey XXX speakers, which are supposed to be V30 copies at 100w each for a total of 200w.

The combo itself souds fine, although lacking the tight bottom end of a closed back cab, which I expect. When I replace the combo speaker with the 212 cab via the 8hom load jack, it seems to be really "woofy" in the low end department. It's not an oversized cab and not ported in any way and I have tried running the bass at a minimum and also the treble a little higher, even to about 3 o'clock with the mid at various settings between 9 and 11 o'clock.

For the F-30 users, has anyone else experienced this, what speaker, speaker/cab combo are you using and what is recommeded for this combo.

All styles sound fine to me except tight metal, which is almost there. I have a strat fitted with a Duncan Distortion, which is a very tight pickup with trimmed bass output.

Is an eq in order here? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

Hi Usrname! I don't use any cabs with my f30, but actually i would love to :)
If I remember correctly I think that Dann'stheman once tried the f30 combo with a mesa 1x12" thiele cab, and as far as i remember he was VERY pleased with the sound! Try that one. I'm sure Dann will chime in and give you some more info on this one.
I have tried with my 4x12" marshall 1960A, and that is also great. But that kind of kills the idea of having a combo :freak:
B.r. andershoeg

Gazz

07-31-2006, 01:31 AM

Hi guys

sorry its been so long, but been playing loads of gigs and trying different settings on my beloved F50 combo.

Quick question ! Has anyone ever tried to use a Electro Harmonix holy grail, either in the loop or out front. Does anyone know whether they have a standard boss type power supply socket , or is it somehting else.

Any comments greatfully received.

Gazz

07-31-2006, 02:02 AM

Just been having a read about the Holy Grail, and the newer MArshall reflector on Harmony central, neither seem to be well received. Has anybody tried anything else in the loop of the F50?

hal9000

07-31-2006, 04:42 AM

Originally posted by 1longhorn
hello all...
i've been without an amp for several months now, but in a couple of weeks i'll finally get an f-50...
i've got to get a power attenuator for the sanity of my housemates...today i test drove a marshall power brake with an f-50 and it sounded like it would do the trick...any opinions?, suggestions?...
note:
1. i'm certain this has been asked before and i'm going through the lounge...on page 9...
2. i'm playing an ibanez 1527...
thanks in advance... 1longhorn, welcome to the forum! :)

IMO, don't worry about a power attenuator yet. In the thread we've detailed a few really good methods for getting great tone at lower volumes. First, the masters are decent, but I don't like the tone as much below 9:00. Second, almost any line level FX device in the loop with a volume control will allow you to push the masters over 9:00 while reducing the total volume in the loop. Finally, in my signature, I've detailed a method that should cost a few dollars that allows you to use the FX MIX pot as a master volume over both channels which has the same affect that you can push the preamp masters up over 9:00.

I used to employ a Hot Plate with my setup, but I feel that loop attenuation with my G-Major is so close, it's not worth using the Hot Plate in my main setup. If you're curious about other uses for the Hot Plate, check out my two recent threads on silent tube amp recording:

http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1323113
http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1324206

Dann'sTheMan

07-31-2006, 07:45 AM

Originally posted by UsrName
I have been test driving my F-30 for the past few days alone and with a basic 212 cab with peavey XXX speakers, which are supposed to be V30 copies at 100w each for a total of 200w.

The combo itself souds fine, although lacking the tight bottom end of a closed back cab, which I expect. When I replace the combo speaker with the 212 cab via the 8hom load jack, it seems to be really "woofy" in the low end department. It's not an oversized cab and not ported in any way and I have tried running the bass at a minimum and also the treble a little higher, even to about 3 o'clock with the mid at various settings between 9 and 11 o'clock.

For the F-30 users, has anyone else experienced this, what speaker, speaker/cab combo are you using and what is recommeded for this combo.

All styles sound fine to me except tight metal, which is almost there. I have a strat fitted with a Duncan Distortion, which is a very tight pickup with trimmed bass output.

Is an eq in order here? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

Thanks for the namecheck andershoeg. :) Yep, I recently tried the F-30 combo with the Thiele cab recently and was BLOWN AWAY (see my post on June 30, 2006). Probably the best "small" rig I've ever played through!

I didn't like the Thiele cab used alone without the combo speaker - too dark. However turning on both the combo speaker AND the external cab was glorious.

If you wish to use both your combo's speaker and your external cab at the same time, just confirm that your external cab is rated at 8 ohms, and then plug both the combo's speaker lead and the external cab's speaker lead into the two 4 Ohm sockets on the back of your F-30. :cool:

Big smiles,

Andy.

Big smiles,

Andy.

Dann'sTheMan

07-31-2006, 07:51 AM

UsrName

07-31-2006, 07:51 AM

Originally posted by andershoeg

Hi Usrname! I don't use any cabs with my f30, but actually i would love to :)
If I remember correctly I think that Dann'stheman once tried the f30 combo with a mesa 1x12" thiele cab, and as far as i remember he was VERY pleased with the sound! Try that one. I'm sure Dann will chime in and give you some more info on this one.
I have tried with my 4x12" marshall 1960A, and that is also great. But that kind of kills the idea of having a combo :freak:
B.r. andershoeg

Thanks Anders, I got the combo for home use, but I would want a fuller sound when playing live. If I could get away with a 1x12 thiele, that would be great, but I don't know how much bass the ported design will add to an already bass heavy amp. Also, I've seen them with a few different speaker configuations (EV, C90, and V30. It's awfully hard to try any of these out in advance. Maybe a regular closed back 1x12 would do?

hal9000

07-31-2006, 07:54 AM

Originally posted by Dann'sTheMan

Thanks for the namecheck andershoeg. :) Yep, I recently tried the F-30 combo with the Thiele cab recently and was BLOWN AWAY (see my post on June 30, 2006). Probably the best "small" rig I've ever played through!

I didn't like the Thiele cab used alone without the combo speaker - too dark. However turning on both the combo speaker AND the external cab was glorious.

If you wish to use both your combo's speaker and your external cab at the same time, just confirm that your external cab is rated at 8 ohms, and then plug both the combo's speaker lead and the external cab's speaker lead into the two 4 Ohm sockets on the back of your F-30. :cool:

Big smiles,

Andy.

Big smiles,

Andy. I concur with Andy that a semi-open back combo and closed-back cab together is a fantastic and easily portable rig. The F-30 1x12 + Thiele ported cab fits this archetype as well as my F-100 2x12 combo + Avatar 2x12 closed-back cab.

What I love about this setup is the amount of tight bass, whilst retaining enveloping cleans and reducing the laser-beam effect of a totally closed-back cab. The Road King cab makes use of the same principle with its half-open/half-closed back.

Dann'sTheMan

07-31-2006, 07:55 AM

Originally posted by Lt_Core
I have to run delay and chorus in the regular pedal chain until I can get a decent attenuator. Using the 2 1/4" TS plugs for now.

Hi Lt_Core,

Did you get money back on that poorly working e-bay box that you bought? If so, I'd suggest spending the money on a soldering iron and the parts that have been identified in the various project boxes detailed in this thread.

You'll likely end up with a good quality product, that does all that you need it too. Plus you'll have a soldering iron when needed in the future. :cool:

Big smiles,

Andy.

Torh

07-31-2006, 07:56 AM

Originally posted by bowen71
Originally posted by Torh
{Picture of a Weber MiniMass}

Thats exactly how mine looks. Must be normal because it works.

I sent a mail to Ted Weber about it, and got a reply not long after. Here it is, for those it may concern:

That is a rheostat and is wirewound because it has to be able to handle the full power of the amplifier. So, it is rough turning with lots of friction. The standard rheostat has a longer shaft, and we don't want to cut it off because we are afraid it will damage the rheostat.

UsrName

07-31-2006, 07:59 AM

Originally posted by Dann'sTheMan

The F-30 combo was hooked up to a Thiele 1x12 cab, and sounded absolutely huge. To all my F-30 owning brothers, you really need to try this combination - it's probably the best small rig I've ever plugged into. The Thiele balances the open tone of the combo beautifully.

What speaker was in it? Was the bass tight or loose? Was there an increase in bass or just a fuller sound?

UsrName

07-31-2006, 08:01 AM

Originally posted by hal9000
I concur with Andy that a semi-open back combo and closed-back cab together is a fantastic and easily portable rig. The F-30 1x12 + Thiele ported cab fits this archetype as well as my F-100 2x12 combo + Avatar 2x12 closed-back cab.

What I love about this setup is the amount of tight bass, whilst retaining enveloping cleans and reducing the laser-beam effect of a totally closed-back cab. The Road King cab makes use of the same principle with its half-open/half-closed back.

That's totally how I intend to use it, half open, half closed, but before I buy another cab, I want to try to work with what I have. I'll have to try running them both. I also have a Celestion G12-T75 lying around. Maybe I'll throw that in the cab and see how it affects the tone. :thu:

hal9000

07-31-2006, 08:12 AM

Originally posted by UsrName

That's totally how I intend to use it, half open, half closed, but before I buy another cab, I want to try to work with what I have. I'll have to try running them both. I also have a Celestion G12-T75 lying around. Maybe I'll throw that in the cab and see how it affects the tone. :thu: From Mesa: http://www.mesaboogie.com/Product_Info/Guitar%20Cabinets/GCabSelector.htm

The 1x12 Thiele cab is a closed-back ported design with a Celestion Custom 90 speaker and weighs 43 lbs. It's the same width as the F-30 1x12 combo as well.

http://www.mesaboogie.com/Product_Info/Guitar%20Cabinets/LgrLEFT-Cabs/1x12Thiele-LG.jpg

UsrName

07-31-2006, 08:29 AM

Well, if I can't get the sound I want out of the 212 I have now, I'll definitely give the thiele a whirl. ;) It might be the XXX speakers I'm having a problem with. Thanks for all the suggestions guys. :thu:

andershoeg

07-31-2006, 09:03 AM

Originally posted by hal9000
From Mesa: http://www.mesaboogie.com/Product_Info/Guitar%20Cabinets/GCabSelector.htm

The 1x12 Thiele cab is a closed-back ported design with a Celestion Custom 90 speaker and weighs 43 lbs. It's the same width as the F-30 1x12 combo as well.

http://www.mesaboogie.com/Product_Info/Guitar%20Cabinets/LgrLEFT-Cabs/1x12Thiele-LG.jpg
Hi hal9000! are you sure about the size-thing!? to me it looks a little wider than the f30.

andershoeg

07-31-2006, 09:11 AM

ok you're right. checked it myself ;)

hal9000

07-31-2006, 09:12 AM

Originally posted by andershoeg

Hi hal9000! are you sure about the size-thing!? to me it looks a little wider than the f30. Yup: http://www.mesaboogie.com/Product_Info/Product_Guide/ProdRef_0206.pdf

The F-30 is 18 3/4" wide and the Thiele is 18 7/8" wide.

Dann'sTheMan

07-31-2006, 09:16 AM

Originally posted by andershoeg

Hi hal9000! are you sure about the size-thing!? to me it looks a little wider than the f30.

Hi Anders,

Neil is right, it's pretty much the same width as the F-30 - Mesa's narrow body format (18 3/4 "). The fact that it looks like a perfect match to the combo, is another reason why I was smitten by the rig. :p

UsrName,

As hal9000 commented, it's the C90 speaker that's in Mesa's current generation of the Thiele cab. There was both more bass and a fuller sound. The Thiele didn't overpower the combo's speaker (I've run a Recto 4x12 with an F-50 combo before) but rather was beautifully balanced to my ears - an airy high end from the open back combo, and a tight powerful low end from the ported Thiele. :cool:

Big smiles,

Andy.

UsrName

07-31-2006, 10:16 AM

OK, thanks. If I get one, I'll probably go with the C90 version. I think I'll get an eq of some sort in the meantime and see if I can manipulate the tone a bit. I don't feel I'm getting the most control out of the three tone pots on the amp itself. I'll post results when I've tinkered some more.

rakester

07-31-2006, 10:21 AM

anyone selling an f-50 combo let me know asap! money ready. PM me, Thanks

andershoeg

07-31-2006, 02:06 PM

AARRGGHH!! Andy, actually I'm on a quest for a new cab, for my single recto OR for my f30! All this talk about the thiele cab, especially your little review, made me want one of these! You know the kind of music I play, so I wont go into details there, for those that don't already know, have a listen HERE. (http://www.frangoheep.dk)
Well, the keyword for this quest is "portability"! I am so tired of logging around my 4x12 marshall. sounds good and all, but too often we enter the place that we are gonna play, and i realize that i have to turn my single recto down, so that the soundguy can manage the overall sound better. Thats just fine, except i think it is irritating that i have brought this huge cab and my recto, just to turn it all down. SO my thoughts goes: should I buy the thiele cab to use it with my f30, or should I buy the 2x12" 3/4-back mesa cab (the one that fits the f100 top; good local deal, about the same price as a thiele) to go with my single recto!? Right now I'm confused! I think with the thiele i have the opportunity to spread the sound onstage a little, if that's needed. I dont have that opp. with the 2x12". On the other hand, i will be able to use my recto with the 2x12, and be sure to have enough power "under the hood" :) I don't think i have that with the f30 alone. Did you experience a significant increase in volume when trying out the thiele, Andy? And do any of you guys have any opinion on the 2x12"?
Help, please.....I can't afford both :)
I see that Alchemist use a 4x12 cab with his f30. i have tried that with mine also, and that sounds fine....but then i still have to drag the 4x12 around.....and the idea is kind of the exact opposite :)
Hope you guys can help me on this one, as i have a gig saturday ( a gig where i DON'T want to take my 4x12, and doesn't have the opportunity to do so......you know, a Peugeot 206 is NOT a big car :) ).

B.R. andershoeg

musicdog400

07-31-2006, 02:30 PM

So, it is rough turning with lots of friction.

Not only is it rough, it is scratchy. Sometimes the sound goes away and I have to wiggle the pot.

I don't know his circuit but when I was building a few attenuators for friends, my circuit only ran about 1/4 max thru the rheostat. BTW, this was one of the most expensive parts. Change this to a 3-way toggle and you can save $10-20.

1longhorn

07-31-2006, 05:38 PM

thanks hal9000 and andy....
i've already got the mix pot master volume page bookmarked..will go with that...

thinking about a maxon od808...read good things about it....
thoughts?....

this is quite an awesome thread...both informative and entertaining...gotta love it...

thanks again for the rapid response...

andershoeg

08-01-2006, 04:47 AM

Originally posted by andershoeg
AARRGGHH!! Andy, actually I'm on a quest for a new cab, for my single recto OR for my f30! All this talk about the thiele cab, especially your little review, made me want one of these! You know the kind of music I play, so I wont go into details there, for those that don't already know, have a listen HERE. (http://www.frangoheep.dk)
Well, the keyword for this quest is "portability"! I am so tired of logging around my 4x12 marshall. sounds good and all, but too often we enter the place that we are gonna play, and i realize that i have to turn my single recto down, so that the soundguy can manage the overall sound better. Thats just fine, except i think it is irritating that i have brought this huge cab and my recto, just to turn it all down. SO my thoughts goes: should I buy the thiele cab to use it with my f30, or should I buy the 2x12" 3/4-back mesa cab (the one that fits the f100 top; good local deal, about the same price as a thiele) to go with my single recto!? Right now I'm confused! I think with the thiele i have the opportunity to spread the sound onstage a little, if that's needed. I dont have that opp. with the 2x12". On the other hand, i will be able to use my recto with the 2x12, and be sure to have enough power "under the hood" :) I don't think i have that with the f30 alone. Did you experience a significant increase in volume when trying out the thiele, Andy? And do any of you guys have any opinion on the 2x12"?
Help, please.....I can't afford both :)
I see that Alchemist use a 4x12 cab with his f30. i have tried that with mine also, and that sounds fine....but then i still have to drag the 4x12 around.....and the idea is kind of the exact opposite :)
Hope you guys can help me on this one, as i have a gig saturday ( a gig where i DON'T want to take my 4x12, and doesn't have the opportunity to do so......you know, a Peugeot 206 is NOT a big car :) ).

B.R. andershoeg

Well....ok guys: I took a trip to the local store today, tried the 2x12" 3/4-back cab with a single recto.....and with a f30 combo. I got to tell you something: wether it is the recto or the f30, this cab absolutely sounds FANTASTIC on both!!! The f30 is a nice amp in itself, but when i tried it with this cab the sound was ALOT fuller!!! I can imagine the experience Andy had with the thiele and a f30 combo....probably something like my experience: a full-bodied sound filling the room, nothing harsh, not missing a thing in the whole frequency-range. Just a full-sounding, nice tone!
Tried it with a single recto also: well....same as above, and no need to worry about it not being loud enough.....IT MATCHES THE SINGLE RECTO PERFECTLY! At least for my playing style, which is rock in the harder genre. I am amazed how this cab fills the room! Sometimes i think my marshall 1960a is so directional, and it annoyes me alot! This cab is sweeeeeeeet! It was standing on the ground, not lifted with boxes or anything, and the sound i got when standing up was almost the same as when sitting in front of the cab! Of course the 3/4-back has alot (everything) to do with this.
Well there i was, tried a fantastic cab that suits my playing-style, suits my two amps, and suits my bank! Do i need to tell you that.............................................. ................................................I BOUGHT THE CAB!!!

I'm going to rehearse tonight.........CANNOT WAIT!!!! :)

The only thing about the cab is, that it size-wise doesn't fit my f30, not even when putting it on its side. Whatever....it looks pretty good nevertheless.
have a look :) http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i145/andershoeg/cabf30.jpg

B.r. andershoeg

Alligator

08-01-2006, 06:18 AM

Hello Peeps!

I'm the proud owner of a brand-spanking new Line 6 DL4 Delay Modeler / looper. I tried it out last night in the loop of my F50 and it sounded incredible! That is until one of my power tubes started glowing red hot and my sound disappeared into scratchy nothingness!

The tubes are a over a year old and have been well used. I hadn't plugged in the amp for a week or so before running the delay in the loop and I was making some crazy sounds.

Is this just a case of old tubes coming to the end of their life? Or did the delay push them over the edge? I put the amp on standby for a minute or two and the sound returned to normal once the tube had cooled a little.

I love this pedal - the tone is amazing - but I'm a bit concerned that its going to eat my tubes! What does the brotherhood reckon?

Peace

Alligator :)

Dann'sTheMan

08-01-2006, 06:22 AM

Originally posted by andershoeg

Well....ok guys: I took a trip to the local store today, tried the 2x12" 3/4-back cab with a single recto.....and with a f30 combo. I got to tell you something: wether it is the recto or the f30, this cab absolutely sounds FANTASTIC on both!!! The f30 is a nice amp in itself, but when i tried it with this cab the sound was ALOT fuller!!! I can imagine the experience Andy had with the thiele and a f30 combo....probably something like my experience: a full-bodied sound filling the room, nothing harsh, not missing a thing in the whole frequency-range. Just a full-sounding, nice tone!
Tried it with a single recto also: well....same as above, and no need to worry about it not being loud enough.....IT MATCHES THE SINGLE RECTO PERFECTLY! At least for my playing style, which is rock in the harder genre. I am amazed how this cab fills the room! Sometimes i think my marshall 1960a is so directional, and it annoyes me alot! This cab is sweeeeeeeet! It was standing on the ground, not lifted with boxes or anything, and the sound i got when standing up was almost the same as when sitting in front of the cab! Of course the 3/4-back has alot (everything) to do with this.
Well there i was, tried a fantastic cab that suits my playing-style, suits my two amps, and suits my bank! Do i need to tell you that.............................................. ................................................I BOUGHT THE CAB!!!

I'm going to rehearse tonight.........CANNOT WAIT!!!! :)

The only thing about the cab is, that it size-wise doesn't fit my f30, not even when putting it on its side. Whatever....it looks pretty good nevertheless.
have a look :) http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i145/andershoeg/cabf30.jpg

B.r. andershoeg

I was going to say that you needed to go audition them, but you don't need may stating the obvious! :p GREAT to hear you've found a cab that works for both of your rigs! :cool:

I like the look of the cab and prefer the smaller logo to the ones used on the vertical Recto 2x12s. I'm really keen to try one of those cabs with my F-50 - should be sweet! :thu:

Big smiles,

Andy.

Dann'sTheMan

08-01-2006, 06:26 AM

Originally posted by Alligator
Hello Peeps!

I'm the proud owner of a brand-spanking new Line 6 DL4 Delay Modeler / looper. I tried it out last night in the loop of my F50 and it sounded incredible! That is until one of my power tubes started glowing red hot and my sound disappeared into scratchy nothingness!

The tubes are a over a year old and have been well used. I hadn't plugged in the amp for a week or so before running the delay in the loop and I was making some crazy sounds.

Is this just a case of old tubes coming to the end of their life? Or did the delay push them over the edge? I put the amp on standby for a minute or two and the sound returned to normal once the tube had cooled a little.

I love this pedal - the tone is amazing - but I'm a bit concerned that its going to eat my tubes! What does the brotherhood reckon?

Peace

Alligator :)

Hi Alligator,

My feeling is that the tubes just came to the end of their natural life - chances are you were playing it a little more, as you were enjoying the tones from the Delay modeller.

The FX loop is actually part of the pre-amp circuit, and is buffered by the V3 pre-amp tube. Consequently, running a toy here shouldn't affect the Power amp. :cool:

Big smiles,

Andy.

GTM

08-01-2006, 06:31 AM

Originally posted by Dann'sTheMan

Regarding controlling volume, yep, an attenuator like the PowerBrake would work well, however I would also recommend trying a loop attenuation approach first. It's cheaper, and you may find it gives you all the control you need. I recommend trying the Mix pot approach that hal9000 beautifully details in his sig, and once you've tried that, then make a decision if such an approach works for you. :)

Doing this is not going to drive the power tubes. All your doing is reducing the preamp signal to the power tubes. In other words you could crank the master to "10" and send a tiny signal from the preamp, it's not driving the power tubes, not at all, nada. In my opinion the F-50 is voiced to get it's tone from driving the power tubes. The only way to do that and keep the volume down is to use an attenuator. I'm currently using a Hotplate and am very happy with the results. I use a rack effects processor in the effects loop and can reduce the volume the way described in the quote above but it is no where close to the tone I get from driving the power tubes with the full on signal from the preamp. The hotplate simply reduces the power to the speaker. In my opinion it's the real deal, the only way to reduce volume and still drive the power tubes. The key here is to hit the power tubes with a full on signal, to drive them. You are not going to do this by reducing the preamp signal with a volume control (pot) in the loop. My 2 cents.

hal9000

08-01-2006, 07:04 AM

Originally posted by andershoeg
Well....ok guys: I took a trip to the local store today, tried the 2x12" 3/4-back cab with a single recto.....and with a f30 combo.

<snip>

Do i need to tell you that.............................................. ................................................I BOUGHT THE CAB!!!

B.r. andershoeg Anders, excellent news! I'm glad you like the cab so much. I have some experience with this type of cab since it's basically what my F-100 combo is built around (2x12 3/4-back).

BTW, in looking at the proportions of your cab it seems to be much closer to the recto 2x12 (17.5" H x 30.125" W) compared to the 3/4-back (20.25" H x 26.625" W) :confused: Those numbers are from Mesa's cab specification PDF. If you had the 3/4-tuned back 2x12 Mesa states, it should fit very well on its side underneath the F-30.

Here's a scale drawing of the recto cab proportions with your F-30 combo:

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y34/afraiddave/hal9000AndersRigF-302x12Recto.png

Here's a scale drawing of the 3/4-tuned back 2x12 cab with your F-30 combo:

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y34/afraiddave/hal9000AndersRigF-302x12.png

Dann'sTheMan

08-01-2006, 07:20 AM

Originally posted by GTM

Doing this is not going to drive the power tubes. All your doing is reducing the preamp signal to the power tubes. In other words you could crank the master to "10" and send a tiny signal from the preamp, it's not driving the power tubes, not at all, nada. In my opinion the F-50 is voiced to get it's tone from driving the power tubes. The only way to do that and keep the volume down is to use an attenuator. I'm currently using a Hotplate and am very happy with the results. I use a rack effects processor in the effects loop and can reduce the volume the way described in the quote above but it is no where close to the tone I get from driving the power tubes with the full on signal from the preamp. The hotplate simply reduces the power to the speaker. In my opinion it's the real deal, the only way to reduce volume and still drive the power tubes. The key here is to hit the power tubes with a full on signal, to drive them. You are not going to do this by reducing the preamp signal with a volume control (pot) in the loop. My 2 cents.

Hi GTM,

I don't know if you've had the opportunity to follow some of the many discussions on this topic in this thread, but it has certainly been well explored.

The key thing is that no-one ever suggests that the reason why this loop attenuation approach works is because of increased power tube distortion - for the very same reason you've described. We've been blessed in this thread to have contributions from many technically astute brothers - encompassing both hands on and theoretical knowledge (FWIW I've a Masters in Elec Eng) - and I firmly believe one of the key reasons why this Lounge has become such a widely respected resource is because knowledege is so liberally shared here.

The only issue that I would challenge from your post is wrt the F-series voicing. Like most tube amps, the F-series certainly develops some of its mojo in its power amp - especially when drawing out more vintage tones; however, like many Mesas, the F-series owes much of its voicing to its cascading gain pre-amp. Mesa rose to popularity in the 70s as they demonstrated that an amp design can sound great without needing to pummel the power amp and thus generate ridiculous volumes. As a result, they became popular both in the studio and on the stage.

This brings me to the other key point. The loop attenuation approach simply works. How exactly? is open to speculation, but I suspect it's largely from overdriving V3 and perhaps V4. Does it sound or feel the same as power tube distortion - No. Does it sound good - yes, and most importantly, better than relying on the F-series' sensitive Channel Master controls (situated between V3a and V3b).

This experience - shared by many brothers, is the reason why this approach is often suggested in this thread. I've tried the Hotplate (see my post on 30 June 2006) and thought it sounded good. However, I A/Bed it against loop attenuation and decided that it wasn't enough of an improvement to warrant the extra cost and hassle of taking a speaker attenuator to a gig. hal9000 owns a Hotplate, and has stopped taking it to gigs because he's satisfied with the Loop attenuation approach.

For a long time, guitarists ignored the importance of the Power tube in getting tone. Thankfully those days are gone, however, I must admit that I feel the pendulum has swung too far in the other direction, with far too many players believing that the only way to great tone is with power tube distortion, and consequently ignoring the importance of the pre-amp. One of the reasons I respect Mesa is that they get a healthy balance, and a fantastically toneful interaction, between the two. :cool:

Big smiles,

Andy.

Alligator

08-01-2006, 07:29 AM

Originally posted by Dann'sTheMan

Hi Alligator,

My feeling is that the tubes just came to the end of their natural life - chances are you were playing it a little more, as you were enjoying the tones from the Delay modeller.

The FX loop is actually part of the pre-amp circuit, and is buffered by the V3 pre-amp tube. Consequently, running a toy here shouldn't affect the Power amp. :cool:

Big smiles,

Andy.

Thanks for the reassurance Andy,

While we’re on the subject, what would you say is the average life-span for pre-amp tubes?

I changed the power tubes just after I bought the amp but I still have the original set in the pre-amp. Though it was a power tube that was glowing red hot, would you say a dying pre-amp tube may have caused this?

Excuse my ignorance on the subject, any help is greatly appreciated

Peace

Alligator
:)

GTM

08-01-2006, 07:50 AM

Andy,
Thanks for your in depth reply. I have been following this thread for well over a year and have seen the many posts about hotplate attenuation vs the pot in the loop. I've owned 3 Mesa amps over the years, a Nomad 45 (1 x 12) combo, my F-50 and briefly a Mark IV (1 x 12). When I first bought the F-50 I was somewhat frustrated with the low volume "bedroom" tone. The amp seems to really shine when you can get the master volume up around 9:00 or higher. Time out=I'm speaking purely my opinion here. Thus "I" conclude this amp seems to be voiced to be played loud, drive the power tubes. I tried all kinds of pedals, effects, stuff in the loop, etc....nothing was working. I finally sprung for a Hotplate and bam!!! there it was, the low volume "bedroom" tone I was looking for. The Hotplate is a permanent part of my home rig. I gig every weekend and the Hoplate stays home, I don't need it on the job. In fact I never use the contour switch on gigs but I use it all the time at home. I have concluded based on my experience with the Mesa amps I have owned as well as all the accumulated experience I have gathered from over 30 yrs of guitar playing and thousands of dollars of gear that the F-50 in my opinion seems to be voiced as a working amp, an amp that wants to have it's power tubes driven by the excellent preamp Mesa has coupled it with. I'm an engineer by trade. I posted because maybe I can help some one save a lot of time and achieve the "bedroom" tone they are looking for by using a true "attenuator" like the Hotplate. If a pot in the loop works, great. But the readers of this thread should know all they are hearing is an over driven preamp, not power tube saturation. You can put the amp on 10, it doesn’t matter, you will not drive the power tubes with a pot in the loop. But if it works for some people here, great. It didn’t work for me.

markmann

08-01-2006, 08:12 AM

Alchemist

08-01-2006, 08:13 AM

Hal, just wondering if you have a 2 space rack and a Korg DTR-1000 tuner rendered already by any chance, I'd like to add it to that wonderfull rig pic you did for me:love:

Dann'sTheMan

08-01-2006, 08:23 AM

Originally posted by Alligator

Thanks for the reassurance Andy,

While we’re on the subject, what would you say is the average life-span for pre-amp tubes?

I changed the power tubes just after I bought the amp but I still have the original set in the pre-amp. Though it was a power tube that was glowing red hot, would you say a dying pre-amp tube may have caused this?

Excuse my ignorance on the subject, any help is greatly appreciated

Peace

Alligator
:)

The rule of thumb seems to be about 5 years with pre-amp tubes (assuming they don't die or go microphonic shortly after first use). However, as they are relatively inexpensive, a significant number of people just buy some in just to experiment.

Once again, I personally feel that it's unlikely that a pre-amp tube would cause a power tube to fail. In the UK, we refer to tubes as valves. Imagine a valve being turned to open and close the flow of water from a dam. If a crack appears in the dam wall - it's not necessarily anything to do with the valve back in the station building.

Big smiles,

Andy.

Dann'sTheMan

08-01-2006, 09:00 AM

Originally posted by GTM
Andy,
Thanks for your in depth reply. I have been following this thread for well over a year and have seen the many posts about hotplate attenuation vs the pot in the loop. I've owned 3 Mesa amps over the years, a Nomad 45 (1 x 12) combo, my F-50 and briefly a Mark IV (1 x 12). When I first bought the F-50 I was somewhat frustrated with the low volume "bedroom" tone. The amp seems to really shine when you can get the master volume up around 9:00 or higher. Time out=I'm speaking purely my opinion here. Thus "I" conclude this amp seems to be voiced to be played loud, drive the power tubes. I tried all kinds of pedals, effects, stuff in the loop, etc....nothing was working. I finally sprung for a Hotplate and bam!!! there it was, the low volume "bedroom" tone I was looking for. The Hotplate is a permanent part of my home rig. I gig every weekend and the Hoplate stays home, I don't need it on the job. In fact I never use the contour switch on gigs but I use it all the time at home. I have concluded based on my experience with the Mesa amps I have owned as well as all the accumulated experience I have gathered from over 30 yrs of guitar playing and thousands of dollars of gear that the F-50 in my opinion seems to be voiced as a working amp, an amp that wants to have it's power tubes driven by the excellent preamp Mesa has coupled it with. I'm an engineer by trade. I posted because maybe I can help some one save a lot of time and achieve the "bedroom" tone they are looking for by using a true "attenuator" like the Hotplate. If a pot in the loop works, great. But the readers of this thread should know all they are hearing is an over driven preamp, not power tube saturation. You can put the amp on 10, it doesn’t matter, you will not drive the power tubes with a pot in the loop. But if it works for some people here, great. It didn’t work for me.

Hi GTM,

Like you, I also find the F-50 doesn't start to sing until the Channel Masters are above 9 o'clock. Interestingly, this is also true when using the loop trick - so it may well be an issue in the pre-amp design.

Regardless, the key thing is that anyone trying to tame the F-series volume for home use, goes into it with their eyes wide open. Hopefully, this discussion will make people realise that the loop attenuation trick, although cheap and easy, should not be confused with established speaker attenuator approaches like the Hotplate and Weber Mass. :thu:

Big smiles,

Andy.

andershoeg

08-01-2006, 09:18 AM

hi guys. thank you all for your info, help and all.
Hal, thank you for the "drawings"! Looks NICE :cool:
About the dimensions; I think it definitely looks more like your rectodrawing than the other drawing! But I think you #2 drawing looks more like the 1x12" 3/4-back that e.g. markmann is using!? My cab is not as high as on the #2 drawing. My f30 is a little higher than the cab actually.....???????
Have to find out about this before using your drawing in my sig. :)
anders

andershoeg

08-01-2006, 09:31 AM

Aha. Hal, i just found the "problem"! you HAVE taken the dimensions for the 1x12" 3/4-back :) thats why it looks so high. The dimensions for the 2x12" is 17 3/8" x 26 1/2" x 12 1/4", according to THIS (http://www.guitar.com.au/amplifiers/electric/mesa_boogie/Cabinet_Selector.htm) site :) .
Would you mind do a new drawing for me, Hal....please.... ? :) And if you are really bored, one with my single recto on it also!? Too much to ask, maybe.... but i have to try! Those drawings looks so cool!

B.r. Anders

hal9000

08-01-2006, 09:46 AM

Originally posted by Alchemist
Hal, just wondering if you have a 2 space rack and a Korg DTR-1000 tuner rendered already by any chance, I'd like to add it to that wonderfull rig pic you did for me:love: http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y34/afraiddave/hal9000AlchemistsRigRevB.png

Alchemist

08-01-2006, 10:09 AM

Originally posted by hal9000
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y34/afraiddave/hal9000AlchemistsRigRevB.png

That is beautiful :love:, youre the man hal :thu:

markmann

08-01-2006, 10:24 AM

Originally posted by andershoeg

Well....ok guys: I took a trip to the local store today, tried the 2x12" 3/4-back cab with a single recto.....and with a f30 combo. I got to tell you something: wether it is the recto or the f30, this cab absolutely sounds FANTASTIC on both!!! The f30 is a nice amp in itself, but when i tried it with this cab the sound was ALOT fuller!!! I can imagine the experience Andy had with the thiele and a f30 combo....probably something like my experience: a full-bodied sound filling the room, nothing harsh, not missing a thing in the whole frequency-range. Just a full-sounding, nice tone!
Tried it with a single recto also: well....same as above, and no need to worry about it not being loud enough.....IT MATCHES THE SINGLE RECTO PERFECTLY! At least for my playing style, which is rock in the harder genre. I am amazed how this cab fills the room! Sometimes i think my marshall 1960a is so directional, and it annoyes me alot! This cab is sweeeeeeeet! It was standing on the ground, not lifted with boxes or anything, and the sound i got when standing up was almost the same as when sitting in front of the cab! Of course the 3/4-back has alot (everything) to do with this.
Well there i was, tried a fantastic cab that suits my playing-style, suits my two amps, and suits my bank! Do i need to tell you that.............................................. ................................................I BOUGHT THE CAB!!!

I'm going to rehearse tonight.........CANNOT WAIT!!!! :)

The only thing about the cab is, that it size-wise doesn't fit my f30, not even when putting it on its side. Whatever....it looks pretty good nevertheless.
have a look :) http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i145/andershoeg/cabf30.jpg

B.r. andershoeg Your rig looks excellent and I'm sure you'll put it to good use :thu:

Sorry my previous response came AFTER you bought the new cab.... I somehow missed an entire page when I replied! Got to be a speed reader to keep up with this thread though!

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i145/andershoeg/cabf30.jpg

hal9000

08-01-2006, 10:38 AM

Originally posted by andershoeg
Aha. Hal, i just found the "problem"! you HAVE taken the dimensions for the 1x12" 3/4-back :) thats why it looks so high. The dimensions for the 2x12" is 17 3/8" x 26 1/2" x 12 1/4", according to THIS (http://www.guitar.com.au/amplifiers/electric/mesa_boogie/Cabinet_Selector.htm) site :) .
Would you mind do a new drawing for me, Hal....please.... ? :) And if you are really bored, one with my single recto on it also!? Too much to ask, maybe.... but i have to try! Those drawings looks so cool!

B.r. Anders I'll see your Mesa site, and raise you another: http://www.mesaboogie.com/Product_Info/Product_Guide/ProdRef_0206.pdf

Both the 1x12 3/4 and 2x12 3/4 back on the site I referenced have the same size specifications. :confused: It's probably just a typo from Mesa.

Using the spec's from the site you posted I resized the cab. It looks right to me according to your pic.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y34/afraiddave/hal9000AndersRigF-302x12Cab.png

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y34/afraiddave/hal9000AndersRigSingleRecto2x12Cab.png

Tommi Inkila

08-01-2006, 12:06 PM

Hello!

Here's a tune I made for a game... I'll post more links in few days.

This is a "guitar hero" song and it's recorded with Vox AD15VT headphones out... I'm pretty happy with the results although it would have been cool to record with the F :cool:

http://www.scenerychannel.com/broadcast/Tommi Inkila - TWIBMPG.mp3

Let me know what you think :rolleyes:

"sasquatch"

08-01-2006, 12:31 PM

UsrName

08-01-2006, 12:34 PM

Nice work! My son just got that game. He had my wife playing it even! What's the name of the song?

hal9000

08-01-2006, 12:37 PM

Tommi Inkila

08-01-2006, 02:32 PM

Thanks for the replies!

The name of the song is "This Week I've Been Mostly Playing Guitar".

I'm a little bit surprised that the game is already there :)

I'm not actually a hired-gun yet although I'd be interested doing those things. The coder of the game is my room-mate and the game is "small scale" and basicly done for fun.

andershoeg

08-01-2006, 03:56 PM

Originally posted by markmann
Your rig looks excellent and I'm sure you'll put it to good use :thu:

Sorry my previous response came AFTER you bought the new cab.... I somehow missed an entire page when I replied! Got to be a speed reader to keep up with this thread though!

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i145/andershoeg/cabf30.jpg

Hi markmann! thank you very much. I will for sure put it to good use! :) Though I probably will use it primarily with my single recto, i will definitely use it with the f30 where i need a more spread out soundpicture!
b.r. andershoeg

andershoeg

08-01-2006, 04:01 PM

Originally posted by hal9000
I'll see your Mesa site, and raise you another: http://www.mesaboogie.com/Product_Info/Product_Guide/ProdRef_0206.pdf

Both the 1x12 3/4 and 2x12 3/4 back on the site I referenced have the same size specifications. :confused: It's probably just a typo from Mesa.

Using the spec's from the site you posted I resized the cab. It looks right to me according to your pic.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y34/afraiddave/hal9000AndersRigF-302x12Cab.png

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y34/afraiddave/hal9000AndersRigSingleRecto2x12Cab.png

Thank you so much, hal!with the new dimensions it looks just right! NICE!!! :cool:
Yes, it is probably a typo from mesa then. But you definitely got it right on this time! Thanks to you!!
b.r. andershoeg

andershoeg

08-01-2006, 04:12 PM

btw, guys: i just returned from rehearsing with my band, where i was using my new cab together with my single recto. I got to tell you, MAN this is a nice cab!!!!! Placed it on the floor, right where my 4x12" marshall was standing. looked weird at first, that little cab and a top. the guys in the band also had an extra look when entering the room! Well, turned it on, and BANG!!!: it absolutely smokes my marshall completely!! so small, yet so powerfull! the drummer said he could hear me a lot more than ever before (the 3/4-back does the trick :) ). Funny how a small cab can sound a lot better than a big. The projection is a lot wider, not nearly as directional as the marshall. And (here comes the craziest thing): the recto was not turned up as loud as it is with my marshall! Great cab, simple as that. You got to try it, guys!
b.r. andershoeg

andershoeg

08-01-2006, 04:22 PM

Originally posted by Tommi Inkila
Hello!

Here's a tune I made for a game... I'll post more links in few days.

This is a "guitar hero" song and it's recorded with Vox AD15VT headphones out... I'm pretty happy with the results although it would have been cool to record with the F :cool:

http://www.scenerychannel.com/broadcast/Tommi Inkila - TWIBMPG.mp3

Let me know what you think :rolleyes:

Hi Tommy. Great playing man! You definitely got some skills there!! About the song; reminds me a little of the early '90's joe satriani, "the extremist" maybe. Got the same feeling as "the summersong" i think. Nice :) A somewhat "happy" theme, and some nice shredding, tastefull tone and all. Don't know the game, but it is a song just right for some kind of "car-game" :) Some Nascar or something :cool:
Well, respect from here!
b.r. andershoeg, a scandinavian brother :D

Gazz

08-01-2006, 05:29 PM

Hi guys

sorry to repeat myself from a few days ago but has anyone tried an elctro harmonix holy grail through the loop of an F50 combo.

I do recall some time ago there being a bit of a discussion about the dryness of the built in reverb and wondered if anyone had tried it.

I have now ditched my zoom delay and reverb in the loop, it just sucked too much tone, and now use a really old boss dd3 which sounds stunning warm juicy, just need the reverb to do the same.
For some unknown ( to me ) reson it matches the loop impedence perfectly, you would have thought you could only use it front end, but no!

Any contributions greatlfully received

Gazz

UsrName

08-02-2006, 12:47 PM

Originally posted by andershoeg
btw, guys: i just returned from rehearsing with my band, where i was using my new cab together with my single recto. I got to tell you, MAN this is a nice cab!!!!! Placed it on the floor, right where my 4x12" marshall was standing. looked weird at first, that little cab and a top. the guys in the band also had an extra look when entering the room! Well, turned it on, and BANG!!!: it absolutely smokes my marshall completely!! so small, yet so powerfull! the drummer said he could hear me a lot more than ever before (the 3/4-back does the trick :) ). Funny how a small cab can sound a lot better than a big. The projection is a lot wider, not nearly as directional as the marshall. And (here comes the craziest thing): the recto was not turned up as loud as it is with my marshall! Great cab, simple as that. You got to try it, guys!
b.r. andershoeg

Does it still have a tight low end like that of a closed back cab?

andershoeg

08-02-2006, 02:48 PM

Originally posted by UsrName

Does it still have a tight low end like that of a closed back cab?

well, for our kind of music it has. i haven't tried it playing some death metal, but actually i think it has the bottom end for that too. With my setup it is right as it should be :) But guitars, pedals, tubes and so on has an impact on the sound, so..... but i can only think that you will find it tight enough. hard to tell.
b.r. andershoeg

markmann

08-03-2006, 10:17 AM

F50 brothers,

Question: I have a rack preamp and effects unit (Rocktron Piranha and Intellifex) that I use when I am not able to use my f50 and need to go direct to the board. I don't currently have a power amp at home so the only time I hear the rack stuff is when it's connected to a PA.

So I got to thinking that I should be able to use my f50 as a power amp, right? If I run a cable from the preamp out to the f50 loop in I think I'd be bypassing the f50 preamp and only be using the power amp?

I'm a little leary of testing this setup since there wouldn't be anything plugged into the guitar input of the f50.

Any of you guys tried this with a preamp or modeling pedal?

hal9000

08-03-2006, 10:28 AM

Originally posted by markmann
F50 brothers,

Question: I have a rack preamp and effects unit (Rocktron Piranha and Intellifex) that I use when I am not able to use my f50 and need to go direct to the board. I don't currently have a power amp at home so the only time I hear the rack stuff is when it's connected to a PA.

So I got to thinking that I should be able to use my f50 as a power amp, right? If I run a cable from the preamp out to the f50 loop in I think I'd be bypassing the f50 preamp and only be using the power amp?

I'm a little leary of testing this setup since there wouldn't be anything plugged into the guitar input of the f50.

Any of you guys tried this with a preamp or modeling pedal? Your setup sounds fine. However, you'll also need a dummy cable in the FX send to disconnect the parallel path around the FX loop.

I've run my PODxt Live into the return of the F-100 and it sounded like a blanket was over the speakers. Then, I remembered that the parallel path from the preamp bypasses the loop if nothing is in the FX send jack. Dummy cable in FX send jack = XTL sounded sweet through the F-100.

Also, just to rest your nerves about a setup like this, the preamp already has a load on it right before the FX loop, so even if something was plugged-in it still wouldn't mess it up. The preamp is mainly a voltage amplifier, so it doesn't have the same load sensitivity as the power amp/OT output stage.

What's really cool is using the F-50's preamp with a different power amp. I did a stereo setup one time where I was running my F-100's preamp through my Rivera R55's power amp. That was cool.

markmann

08-03-2006, 11:13 AM

Originally posted by hal9000
Your setup sounds fine. However, you'll also need a dummy cable in the FX send to disconnect the parallel path around the FX loop.

I've run my PODxt Live into the return of the F-100 and it sounded like a blanket was over the speakers. Then, I remembered that the parallel path from the preamp bypasses the loop if nothing is in the FX send jack. Dummy cable in FX send jack = XTL sounded sweet through the F-100.

Also, just to rest your nerves about a setup like this, the preamp already has a load on it right before the FX loop, so even if something was plugged-in it still wouldn't mess it up. The preamp is mainly a voltage amplifier, so it doesn't have the same load sensitivity as the power amp/OT output stage.

What's really cool is using the F-50's preamp with a different power amp. I did a stereo setup one time where I was running my F-100's preamp through my Rivera R55's power amp. That was cool. Excellent. Have I mentioned lately that you are the man?

So then the dummy jack needs no mod, just a plain ol' 1/4 ts?

OK, now that I know it will work I had one more amp fantasy but no idea if it's possible... that would be to switch between the f50 pre and the Piranha with both going through the f50 power amp.

Would it be possible to use an A-B splitter and route one cable to the f50 guitar input and the other to the Piranha and switch between the two? It seems obvious that the Piranha would work but what would happen when switched to the f50 input with the Piranha in the loop?

ashjn

08-03-2006, 11:29 AM

andershoeg,

I have had the same experience as you and have found the same results. Had a Marshall 1960B cabinet, then tried out the 2x12 3/4 back to go with my F-100 and bought it right there. It does look weak next to the 1960, but it smokes that cabinet. Much better sounding, and way less directional. I've found it sounds a lot better on the floor than elevated, and I have had no problems in hearing myself when doing this. Loved it so much I ended up buying another one....

Incase it hasn't been cleared up, the 2x12 3/4 back cabinet is the exact same width and depth has the F-100 head...

andershoeg

08-03-2006, 12:01 PM

Originally posted by ashjn
andershoeg,

I have had the same experience as you and have found the same results. Had a Marshall 1960B cabinet, then tried out the 2x12 3/4 back to go with my F-100 and bought it right there. It does look weak next to the 1960, but it smokes that cabinet. Much better sounding, and way less directional. I've found it sounds a lot better on the floor than elevated, and I have had no problems in hearing myself when doing this. Loved it so much I ended up buying another one....

Incase it hasn't been cleared up, the 2x12 3/4 back cabinet is the exact same width and depth has the F-100 head...

Hi ashjn! Great to hear you also have a great experience with that cab! How about live; is it enough for you at any stage, room, concert hall a.s.f.??
And.....I need to see a picture of your setup! Always fun to see other peoples setup! :)
B.R. andershoeg

hal9000

08-03-2006, 12:06 PM

Originally posted by markmann
Excellent. Have I mentioned lately that you are the man?

So then the dummy jack needs no mod, just a plain ol' 1/4 ts?

OK, now that I know it will work I had one more amp fantasy but no idea if it's possible... that would be to switch between the f50 pre and the Piranha with both going through the f50 power amp.

Would it be possible to use an A-B splitter and route one cable to the f50 guitar input and the other to the Piranha and switch between the two? It seems obvious that the Piranha would work but what would happen when switched to the f50 input with the Piranha in the loop? LOL! Thanks. I like to do my part. :)

Regarding two preamps to the same power amp:

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y34/afraiddave/hal9000GRX4ModelerSetup.jpg

If you follow the signal path, either the amp's preamp or modeler can go into the amp's FX Return. Then, you'd just use a MIDI controller to switch patches.

If you wanted to do this with only an A/B switch, you'd be best served to feed both the F-50 and preamp with a stereo out pedal, tuner, etc with two buffered outputs. Then, an A/B switch would select between the F-50's FX Send or the preamp's output which then goes to the F-50’s FX Return.

Make sense?

ashjn

08-03-2006, 12:16 PM

Originally posted by andershoeg

Hi ashjn! Great to hear you also have a great experience with that cab! How about live; is it enough for you at any stage, room, concert hall a.s.f.??
And.....I need to see a picture of your setup! Always fun to see other peoples setup! :)
B.R. andershoeg

It's been fine, never had to turn the amp's master over halfway when playing with a LOUD drummer. There is a picture on page 42 of the lounge...

andershoeg

08-03-2006, 12:32 PM

Originally posted by ashjn

It's been fine, never had to turn the amp's master over halfway when playing with a LOUD drummer. There is a picture on page 42 of the lounge...

That's good to hear! :) tried to find the pic. couldn't find it though. Nevermind.
b.r. andershoeg

musicdog400

08-03-2006, 12:34 PM

Hal's rig gives me serious envy.

hal9000

08-03-2006, 12:46 PM

Originally posted by musicdog400
Hal's rig gives me serious envy. The rig I just posted? The rig above is only partially mine. I did it as a prototype to see if I understood how the GRX4 worked. I'll probably buy one eventually so I can leave my pedals in the rack and have them switched remotely.

Or, this one?

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y34/afraiddave/hal9000GigRig7_10_06.png

markmann

08-03-2006, 01:26 PM

Originally posted by hal9000
LOL! Thanks. I like to do my part. :)

Regarding two preamps to the same power amp:

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y34/afraiddave/hal9000GRX4ModelerSetup.jpg

If you follow the signal path, either the amp's preamp or modeler can go into the amp's FX Return. Then, you'd just use a MIDI controller to switch patches.

If you wanted to do this with only an A/B switch, you'd be best served to feed both the F-50 and preamp with a stereo out pedal, tuner, etc with two buffered outputs. Then, an A/B switch would select between the F-50's FX Send or the preamp's output which then goes to the F-50’s FX Return.

Make sense? Thanks a lot, Neil, really appreciate the help. If I can work this out the tonal posibilities would be endless.

I can't say I totally comprehend it so I made a quick sketch of my interpretation of your explanation above plus my original thought. I'd like to start with an a-b box to see how the whole thing might work and go from there.

Here's my original idea:

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c144/markaland/a-b1.jpg

And here's my interpretation of your A-B box hook-up:

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c144/markaland/a-b.jpg

Am I in the ballpark?

"sasquatch"

08-03-2006, 01:44 PM

can anyone give me a price check on a NEW F-100 head/combo?

ashjn

08-03-2006, 02:00 PM

Originally posted by andershoeg

That's good to hear! :) tried to find the pic. couldn't find it though. Nevermind.
b.r. andershoeg

I think you commented on it when I originally posted, lol

ashjn

08-03-2006, 02:02 PM

Originally posted by doggage5050
can anyone give me a price check on a NEW F-100 head/combo?

I think the head is $1199 and the combo is $1399. http://forum.grailtone.com/viewtopic.php?t=3101

andershoeg

08-03-2006, 02:14 PM

Originally posted by ashjn

I think you commented on it when I originally posted, lol

:D Ok, i'll have to take another look! :)

NiCkMiLnE

08-03-2006, 02:18 PM

Originally posted by andershoeg

Hi Tommy. Great playing man! You definitely got some skills there!! About the song; reminds me a little of the early '90's joe satriani, "the extremist" maybe. Got the same feeling as "the summersong" i think. Nice :) A somewhat "happy" theme, and some nice shredding, tastefull tone and all. Don't know the game, but it is a song just right for some kind of "car-game" :) Some Nascar or something :cool:
Well, respect from here!
b.r. andershoeg, a scandinavian brother :D

tommi inkila is the PETRUCCI of these forums :thu:

hal9000

08-03-2006, 02:21 PM

Originally posted by markmann
Thanks a lot, Neil, really appreciate the help. If I can work this out the tonal posibilities would be endless.

I can't say I totally comprehend it so I made a quick sketch of my interpretation of your explanation above plus my original thought. I'd like to start with an a-b box to see how the whole thing might work and go from there.

Here's my original idea:

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c144/markaland/a-b1.jpg

And here's my interpretation of your A-B box hook-up:

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c144/markaland/a-b.jpg

Am I in the ballpark? Your first one just might work. Electrically, it's setup correctly, but I can't really estimate what will happen with the loop return attached to the preamp. The only problem I see is that you might need the FX send to have a dummy cable to make the preamp sound good, which negates the whole setup. If it works without the dummy cable you might have a winner.

As far as my suggestion, you need to have the A/B pedal inputs as 1) Preamp or 2) F-50's FX Send, and the output is F-50's FX Return. That should definitely work.

Alchemist

08-03-2006, 02:45 PM

andershoeg

08-04-2006, 06:39 AM

Hey ashjn! Found it...looks very nice! But i was thinking, in what situations do you feel the need for cab # 2?
B.r. andershoeg

Dann'sTheMan

08-04-2006, 06:47 AM

Originally posted by Tommi Inkila
Hello!

Here's a tune I made for a game... I'll post more links in few days.

This is a "guitar hero" song and it's recorded with Vox AD15VT headphones out... I'm pretty happy with the results although it would have been cool to record with the F :cool:

http://www.scenerychannel.com/broadcast/Tommi Inkila - TWIBMPG.mp3

Let me know what you think :rolleyes:

Thanks to the brothers for raising the profile of this clip, otherwise, I might have overlooked it! :o Awesome work (as usual) Tommi. I really liked the production, and stunning playing that put a grin on my face.

Tell us more about your involvement in the game project?

Big smiles,

Andy.

Big Hair

08-04-2006, 06:48 AM

this is the eternal HC thread :)

are there any older threads still on HC?

hal9000

08-04-2006, 06:50 AM

Originally posted by Big Hair
this is the eternal HC thread :)

are there any older threads still on HC? SS Posse perhaps? This is certainly the most informative and cordial thread I've ever taken part in. :)

Mark, you know you want an F-50 to go with your other stunning amps. :D

Antti Loponen

08-04-2006, 07:17 AM

Hey, listen to two more of Jermaine songs recorded with my F-30

Jermaine@MySpace (http://www.myspace.com/jermainerocks)

For "Tangles" I played my Gibson SG and got the Flanger effect from the POD XT Live like always. On "Draw the Line", I'm playing the verses on my PRS Santana SE and the other parts with our singer's Ibanez JetKing, because it kept the tune the best. The amp was miked with a single SM57 in an off-axis position. The other guitarist played supporting power chords with his Ibanez into a Laney LC50 combo.

:cool:

andershoeg

08-04-2006, 07:36 AM

Originally posted by Antti Loponen
Hey, listen to two more of Jermaine songs recorded with my F-30

Jermaine@MySpace (http://www.myspace.com/jermainerocks)

For "Tangles" I played my Gibson SG and got the Flanger effect from the POD XT Live like always. On "Draw the Line", I'm playing the verses on my PRS Santana SE and the other parts with our singer's Ibanez JetKing, because it kept the tune the best. The amp was miked with a single SM57 in an off-axis position. The other guitarist played supporting power chords with his Ibanez into a Laney LC50 combo.

:cool:

Hi Antti! That sounds great! Love the "dirty-ness" (sp?) of the f30, and in your band it certainly delivers! A real rock-machine. Good, compact sound. :thu:
B.r. andershoeg

markmann

08-04-2006, 07:49 AM

Originally posted by hal9000
Your first one just might work. Electrically, it's setup correctly, but I can't really estimate what will happen with the loop return attached to the preamp. The only problem I see is that you might need the FX send to have a dummy cable to make the preamp sound good, which negates the whole setup. If it works without the dummy cable you might have a winner.

As far as my suggestion, you need to have the A/B pedal inputs as 1) Preamp or 2) F-50's FX Send, and the output is F-50's FX Return. That should definitely work. OK, got it. I'll do some experimenting and evaluate the results. Thanks, Neil.

UsrName

08-04-2006, 07:53 AM

I was playing my F-30 at higher volumes the other day. I powered it up last night and it had a noticeable hum. It didn't have this hum before, or in the entire time I've had it.

When I played it louder, I had the masters around 10-10:30, and the gain about noon-2:00 on channel 2. I played for about an hour this way and powered down when I was done.

What do you guys think is going on? Has anyone ever had this happen to them? Did I fry a tube? I looked at all of the tubes and they seemed to be ok- none was glowing brighter than the others. I tapped on the power tubes but didn't really hear anything.

When I looked under the chassis, I noticed a long screw, about 4 inches, going through the chassis from bottom to top and sticking out about an inch on the bottom of the chassis. Does anyone know what this screw is for?

UsrName

08-04-2006, 09:53 AM

I also took it to the other side of the room and plugged it in. I made sure no appliances were running(washer, dryer, etc.). I even unplugged the upright freezer in my basement, which is where the combo is right now.

I tried it again this morning and the hum was still there. This is all with nothing plugged into the input. Also, it isn't there when the amp is in standby.

ostap_custom

08-04-2006, 10:38 AM

i'am not have mesa ..... i have this stack
guitar -> head switcher ->1 head - > line in 2 head(footswitch - on\off) -left channel speaker
head switcher -> 2 head (guitar input) -> line out - 3 head -> right channel speaker
crunch\distortion (mid gain) switch 2 and 3 head and lexicon 91 to send return
clean\distortion (more gain) switch 1 head and T.C. Electronics "G-Force" to send return

hal9000

08-04-2006, 11:41 AM

Originally posted by UsrName
I also took it to the other side of the room and plugged it in. I made sure no appliances were running(washer, dryer, etc.). I even unplugged the upright freezer in my basement, which is where the combo is right now.

I tried it again this morning and the hum was still there. This is all with nothing plugged into the input. Also, it isn't there when the amp is in standby. You probably just had a power tube go bad. If you have another set, try them out. If not, get another set. You can try to play with the order of the preamp tubes as well to see if one of them is the culprit. Since certain tubes are only used for certain channels you can isolate the problem. Check the manual for the tube task chart to see what I mean.

If you're within the initial 6 months of your new amp purchase, Mesa will send you new tubes under warranty, but you'll have to wait to call them on Monday.

UsrName

08-04-2006, 01:42 PM

Originally posted by hal9000
You probably just had a power tube go bad. If you have another set, try them out. If not, get another set. You can try to play with the order of the preamp tubes as well to see if one of them is the culprit. Since certain tubes are only used for certain channels you can isolate the problem. Check the manual for the tube task chart to see what I mean.

If you're within the initial 6 months of your new amp purchase, Mesa will send you new tubes under warranty, but you'll have to wait to call them on Monday.

Thanks Hal, I was kinda worried there for a second. I've only got 3 JJ preamp tubes that I got with the amp, which was used, so I'll try them first. I think it might be the power tubes, because all channels are affected.

insanemonkey

08-05-2006, 10:44 PM

Hey guys,
I've been thinking about upgrading to a tube amp from my current Trademark 60. I play in a prog rock/jam band so I don't need brutal metal tones, though I need some high gain with a great clean channel to work with and sometimes feed pedals into. So after reading a bit of the thread it seems like the F-30 or F-50 would be a good choice for me. I play a G&L ASAT Deluxe. Is it possible to coax a real smooth lead tone out of the F series (like Steve Morse, Steve Lukather, Jake Cinninger) as well as really defined overdriven chords? Also, I think I'm going to get a head and cab, though I'm not quite sure what cab I would get. I do play some jazz as well, so a closed back would be great for bass response. Would a semi-closed or closed 2x12 from Avatar with V30s fit my needs? Will the F-30 have enough clean headroom for me? Anything else I should know? Thanks.

andershoeg

08-06-2006, 04:19 AM

Originally posted by insanemonkey
Hey guys,
I've been thinking about upgrading to a tube amp from my current Trademark 60. I play in a prog rock/jam band so I don't need brutal metal tones, though I need some high gain with a great clean channel to work with and sometimes feed pedals into. So after reading a bit of the thread it seems like the F-30 or F-50 would be a good choice for me. I play a G&L ASAT Deluxe. Is it possible to coax a real smooth lead tone out of the F series (like Steve Morse, Steve Lukather, Jake Cinninger) as well as really defined overdriven chords? Also, I think I'm going to get a head and cab, though I'm not quite sure what cab I would get. I do play some jazz as well, so a closed back would be great for bass response. Would a semi-closed or closed 2x12 from Avatar with V30s fit my needs? Will the F-30 have enough clean headroom for me? Anything else I should know? Thanks.

Hi insanemonkey!
And welcome to the lounge! The needs you are describing sounds like you will be more than happy with a f-series amp. I can tell you, that i have got the f30 combo and just bought a extension cabinet, a mesa 2x12" 3/4-back, and those two are NICE together! Smooth leadtonen and defined overdriven chords (+NICE clean!) IS the f-series in a nutshell.
It is hard to tell what will precisely fit YOUR needs,as far as clean headroom is concerned, as the number of instruments in a band, loudness of the drummer, the acoustics of the specific room, gig-sizes, asf, do have a great impact on your overall sound. The combo in itself is JUST ABOUT enough for me in a rehearsal-situation, but only just about! But that is the combo.... and we are playing loud rock/prog-rock. I have actually not tried my combo WITH my cab in a band-sit, but uses the cab with my single recto mainly. I have a american fender tele deluxe, and that through the combo sounds amazing! Really three-dimensional....of course without being it ;)
But the head/cab idea is great, i think! Have a look around the lounge, as there are alot of good info in here....if you already haven't done that :)
But i can for sure tell you, that the tones you are looking for (as far as you have described your needs) is in the f30. The f50 is sounding a little different than the f30, but you still get the same kind of tones out of it....the f30 a little more british sounding, as it uses EL84 tubes, instead of the f50's 6L6, american voiced, tubes.
eventually, check out the very first post from Andy/Dann'stheman, as it is full of links to f-series-recordings! Very usefull!

B.r. andershoeg

Tommi Inkila

08-06-2006, 04:01 PM

Thanks everybody for checking the song out!

I just came back... nice 8 hours sitting in a car. I'll have to make a decent report about the game later.

Now gotta get some :bor:

Lt_Core

08-06-2006, 08:37 PM

Just got back from a week's vacation and 2 gigs this past weekend.

One thing was strange. I played the first set with my F-50 on an amp stand. It was the first time I've used one. I thought it sounded very nasal to me and our sound guy. The next set I put it on the ground and oh, boy, it was beautiful like always.. More bottom end, palm-muting chugging was defined, etc. Does this sound normal? To our ears it was a 100% improvement.

Overall, I'm thrilled with it and I always use the settings in this thread. Great stuff!

hal9000

08-07-2006, 04:40 AM

Originally posted by Lt_Core
Just got back from a week's vacation and 2 gigs this past weekend.

One thing was strange. I played the first set with my F-50 on an amp stand. It was the first time I've used one. I thought it sounded very nasal to me and our sound guy. The next set I put it on the ground and oh, boy, it was beautiful like always.. More bottom end, palm-muting chugging was defined, etc. Does this sound normal? To our ears it was a 100% improvement.

Overall, I'm thrilled with it and I always use the settings in this thread. Great stuff! Yup, a stand will take away bass because the amp is no longer coupled to the floor. If the amp is sounding nasal, it may actually be dialed-in that way, but this is the first time you've heard it in the dead center of the speaker. :) If you can, always try to dial in the amp by listening straight on to the speaker so you'll have a better idea of what the mic and audience are going to hear.

Woodstock1969

08-07-2006, 01:58 PM

What do you guys think I could score a used F-50 for. Are there any things to look out for incase of a dud? I know you shouldn't buy the first 400 production ones. Thanks.

hal9000

08-07-2006, 02:09 PM

Originally posted by Woodstock1969
What do you guys think I could score a used F-50 for. Are there any things to look out for incase of a dud? I know you shouldn't buy the first 400 production ones. Thanks. I would guess around $800 mint is a good price for a 1x12 combo. You can tell the early F-50s because they weren't in widebody combo form like the current versions. So, they look like an F-30 1x12 combo. Just make sure the seller removes the tubes, labels them, and packages them separately if you're getting an amp shipped.

liquid

08-07-2006, 11:54 PM

I'm looking for a backup amp for my f50 hopefully something I can carry around to different rehearsals more easily (light weight) and play small gigs/do recording with. Something with the f50 clean type sound. Any recommendations? Is the the mesa subway series not powerful enough or do they break up too easily?

hal9000

08-08-2006, 07:15 AM

I realized that I've never posted these clips before which is just remixed for another thread, so here you go.

These are from a couple years ago when we still had out first Bassist. I'm on the right channel with my Mesa F-100 (Fat Strat), and my singer is on the left channel with his Hot Rod Deluxe (LP on Unbreakable and '57 RI Strat on Better Dead).

Unbreakable's intro: http://www.64graphics.com/Afraid%20Dave-01-Unbreakable%20intro.mp3

Better Dead's intro: http://www.64graphics.com/Afraid%20Dave-05-Better%20Dead%20intro.mp3

Our tones and tunes have changed a lot since then, and my singer dropped the HRD for a Marshall TSL 100/1960A rig for a couple of years, but now he's using a Mark IV/1960A rig which we both like much better. He's learned a few things about tone from me. :D

CJCorcoran

08-10-2006, 10:29 AM

Hey guys, this seems like this problem should go here. I am starting to get into audio recording -- I have an Echo MIA MIDI, Cubase SE 3, and my F-50 amp. When I connect the amp's output in back to one of the MIA's inputs I get a strange, continuous line noise -- would this be impedence mismatch? Also, any recording advice you can give me is helpful because I am a new to this -- forums or webpages on recording and the like.

Thanks for the help.

--Chris

musicdog400

08-10-2006, 10:47 AM

I get a strange, continuous line noise

A couple questions:
-does it sound like 60Hz ? If so maybe a ground issue. Are your PC and amp plugged into the same outlet ?

-does it vary w amp volume ?

-does it go away when amp is switched to standby ?

CJCorcoran

08-10-2006, 11:53 AM

The amp and PC aren't in the same power outlet. Yes, it goes away when switched to standby. And it stays at the same volume whether or increase or decrease the volume.

seajay

08-10-2006, 01:07 PM

Surfcaster

08-10-2006, 08:10 PM

Originally posted by seajay

Why shouldn't you buy the first 400 production ones? :confused:

I'm wondering the same thing. I've got number 173 and have been really happy with it. Going on 3 years now (in my possession, I think it sat in the music store for a while before I bought it)...no problems and great tone. What have you heard about them?

Tommi Inkila

08-10-2006, 11:46 PM

Originally posted by hal9000
I realized that I've never posted these clips before which is just remixed for another thread, so here you go.

These are from a couple years ago when we still had out first Bassist. I'm on the right channel with my Mesa F-100 (Fat Strat), and my singer is on the left channel with his Hot Rod Deluxe (LP on Unbreakable and '57 RI Strat on Better Dead).

Unbreakable's intro: http://www.64graphics.com/Afraid%20Dave-01-Unbreakable%20intro.mp3

Better Dead's intro: http://www.64graphics.com/Afraid%20Dave-05-Better%20Dead%20intro.mp3

Our tones and tunes have changed a lot since then, and my singer dropped the HRD for a Marshall TSL 100/1960A rig for a couple of years, but now he's using a Mark IV/1960A rig which we both like much better. He's learned a few things about tone from me. :D
The F sounds much better and wider than the Fender (although we already knew that :P) ... Better Dead had slight tuning problem :) ... I guess you've noticed that, still, no worries there. We had even more horrible problem in 2001 I think. Second track of the album was in about 437hz where as the rest was 440hz. This was caused by a broken keyboard. Nice :)

YYZ

08-11-2006, 07:18 AM

Hi folks! I've had an F-30 combo for a few months now and I love it! I have a few questions for anyone using a TC Electronics G Major with their F-series amps.

Firstly, does it work well in a parallel loop? (can you get a wet only signal?)

Does it have a Delay and/or Reverb spill over feature?

I would be using this for mainly modulation, delays, and reverb. I'm hoping to make my setup as simple as possible without losing versatility. Thanks in advance for any help!

Dann'sTheMan

08-11-2006, 07:53 AM

Originally posted by YYZ
Hi folks! I've had an F-30 combo for a few months now and I love it! I have a few questions for anyone using a TC Electronics G Major with their F-series amps.

Firstly, does it work well in a parallel loop? (can you get a wet only signal?)

Does it have a Delay and/or Reverb spill over feature?

I would be using this for mainly modulation, delays, and reverb. I'm hoping to make my setup as simple as possible without losing versatility. Thanks in advance for any help!

Hi YYZ,

The G-Major is pretty popular amongst several of the brotherhood. I use mine with my F-50 and I love the versatility and ease of use it brings to my rig. :)

Regarding your questions:
* Yes the latest firmware version (v1.27) supports Kill Dry for use in parallel loops. Alternatively, there is a simple mod (resolder 1 wire) for making your parallel loop series. With all that said, however, I run my G-Major in my parallel loop (Mix at 90%) and it sounds great. The only minor foible is that when I rock the volume pedal off, there is still an audible signal - but it's faint enough not to annoy me.

* Yes the Reverbs and Delays can be set to spill over. When set to "FX Mute = Soft", then Delays will spill over and Reverbs will smoothly glide to the new setting.

* Delays and Reverbs are the G-Major's strength. The Chorus and Pitch/Detune FX are stunning too. Some of the other Modulation FX like Flange and Phase are usable, but not particularly special to my ears.

* "Making your rig as simple as possible without losing versatility" is one of the reasons I adore my set up. I have made up a custom cable to allow my G-Major to channel switch my F-series allowing both Amp sound (Rhythm/Lead/Contour) and FX patch to be selected with a single foot stomp. Couple this with the MIDI flexibility of my Behringer foot controller, and I get features like Solo boosts for every sound, Tap Tempo, Tuner Mutes etc all at my feet, and Boogie tone in my ears. :thu:

There's more on making up the F-series custom footswitch cable in the second post of this thread. For more on the flexibility of the G-Major, check out the G-Major Tips thread in my signature. :cool:

Big smiles,

Andy.

P.S. Here's how my rig hangs together:
http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/dannstheman/music2/hal9000Andy_sRigFinalSmallRevC.png

UsrName

08-11-2006, 08:10 AM

Is it me, or does anyone notice when the effects loop is used, the sound seems to become somewhat hollow? I've tried the fx loop master volume and also my Yamaha Magicstomp, but I didn't like what it did to my sound. I've also tried different levels with the mix control, but to no avail.

Would changing the loop to serial solve this, and will the mix level knob become unuseable?

Oh BTW, it's an F-30. :)

YYZ

08-11-2006, 08:47 AM

Thanks very much Andy! Actually, your rig looks very similar to what I'm trying to do (I'll use a volume pedal,wah, and a TS-9 in front and an effects unit in the loop for everything else). I was also wondering about what I would need for a cable to switch channels via the G-major, so thanks for that information as well!

xriffmasterx

08-12-2006, 08:49 AM

I finally gave in and purchased a Mesa F-30. I couldn't pass up the custom options, road case, and extra tubes.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/xcarnivorousveganx/DSC00984.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/xcarnivorousveganx/2aca63d8.jpg

This is definitely the most versatile amp I have ever owned.

Ogi-wan

08-12-2006, 09:31 AM

The result of swapping the 12AX7s in V1 and V2 with lower gain tubes is fairly obvious, but what would be the effect of putting lower gain tubes in V3 and V4?

Someone enlighten this poor tube amp newbie, please. :)

DanteDMC

08-12-2006, 10:06 AM

Hey guys, tell me if you've had a similar experience.

You may remember me bitching about how unclear my cleans were a week ago or so, but then I put my Boss DD-20 in the loop and it cleared it up totally. There's no reason for me to buy a new amp now, it's crazy.

ashjn

08-12-2006, 10:08 AM

Originally posted by DanteDMC
Hey guys, tell me if you've had a similar experience.

You may remember me bitching about how unclear my cleans were a week ago or so, but then I put my Boss DD-20 in the loop and it cleared it up totally. There's no reason for me to buy a new amp now, it's crazy.

I also have a DD-20 in my F-100's loop. What level do you set your masters and effects mix at?

UsrName

08-12-2006, 10:28 AM

Originally posted by xriffmasterx
I finally gave in and purchased a Mesa F-30. I couldn't pass up the custom options, road case, and extra tubes.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/xcarnivorousveganx/DSC00984.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/xcarnivorousveganx/2aca63d8.jpg

This is definitely the most versatile amp I have ever owned.

That is just beautiful, man! I'm jealous! Nice score, hope you have as much fun as I'm having with mine. :thu:

UsrName

08-12-2006, 10:39 AM

I replaced the Mesa power tubes in my F-30 with a pair of matched Sovtek EL84. They're rated 8 out of 12 for breakup. I also swapped out the PI for a JJ balanced ECC83. This has made a tremendous difference in the tone. It seems to "breathe" alot more and is more defined than before, more alive, if you will.

Although the hum is still there, I feel I'm getting closer to what I want from this little guy. When I got the amp, it came with 3 extra JJ ECC83. I'm going to swap a few more preamp tubes around tonight and see if I still get the hum. I can tell that the JJs are a lower gain variety than the stock Mesas.

I'm starting to think changing the FX loop tube might help with the strange tone I get when using it.

Anyone with experience in this department is more than welcome to chime in with results they have had as well. Thanks!

DanteDMC

08-12-2006, 10:46 AM

Originally posted by ashjn

I also have a DD-20 in my F-100's loop. What level do you set your masters and effects mix at?

At band practice, I usually have my dirty channel at about 11-12:00 and my cleans at about 3:00. And the mix is set all the way up.

ashjn

08-12-2006, 11:12 AM

Originally posted by DanteDMC

At band practice, I usually have my dirty channel at about 11-12:00 and my cleans at about 3:00. And the mix is set all the way up.

I set the mix all the way up too. Do you set the DD-20 volume level knob all the way up to?

Lt_Core

08-12-2006, 04:46 PM

I have my DD-20 in the front of my amp and it's pretty clear. I'm using the cheap 2 1/4" attenuation mod so I can't use my effects loop right now.

Someday I'll get a real attenuator but for now the DD-20 works great out of the loop. What type of noise/problems were you hearing?

Lt_Core

08-12-2006, 04:59 PM

Originally posted by LithiumZero
I've been using a Bad Monkey in front of my F-50 head for a few months now. It's a very transparent pedal which makes the F-50 much more versatile for live use. I run the pedal as follows:

Bass = 3:00
High = cranked
gain = 12:00

Found a used Bad Monkey for $25. Anyone use this pedal as a solo boost or just a plain OD on the clean channel?

Any other recommended settings?

Ogi-wan

08-13-2006, 12:03 AM

Well, I ended up taking back the OCD. Although it sounds sweet, it also sounded a bit lifeless, at least compared to playing the amp with no pedal.

I am liking this F-30 more and more. The clean channel gets used mostly for my piezo. Channel 2 gets used for mellow stuff, and Contour mode gives me my Marshall fix. :)

Originally posted by Ogi-wan
Hallo, I'm pretty new when it comes to electric guitars (or simply guitars, for that matter).

I've been playing an F-30, having upgraded from a Marshall AVT50. The F-30 is warm and alive compared to the AVT50, which I suppose is a feature of having all tubes vs. solid state.

But the F-30 has quite its own sound. Missing that "Marshall sound", I tried out a Fulltone OCD through the F-30's clean channel. It sounds great and gives me tones that I can't get from the F-30 alone.

Listening closely, I noticed that playing through the OCD (with it "on", of course) lacks warmth as compared to playing with the pedal "off". It's almost like going back to solid state.

Do my ears deceive me? If my experience-challenged brain is right about this, can I expect this loss of warmth with all (or most) pedals?

seajay

08-14-2006, 12:27 PM

Originally posted by seajay

Why shouldn't you buy the first 400 production ones? :confused:

Anybody?

rakester

08-14-2006, 12:34 PM

hi, ive heard the bad monkey is a good pedal for tightening up the F series. any1 else reccomend a good boost pedal? its for a modern metal band situation just for a little more kick. I do love my F-30 :)

"sasquatch"

08-14-2006, 12:35 PM

Originally posted by seajay

Anybody?

there were problems with them. mesa made some changes to the circuitry or something. i had #221, and it was a terd. it was the F50 in the F30 enclosure.

"sasquatch"

08-14-2006, 12:36 PM

Originally posted by rakester
hi, ive heard the bad monkey is a good pedal for tightening up the F series. any1 else reccomend a good boost pedal? its for a modern metal band situation just for a little more kick. I do love my F-30 :)

any tubescreamer-esque pedal (bad monkey, TS9, etc...).

GTM

08-14-2006, 12:58 PM

I use a Boss GE-7 graphic eg pedal for clean boost. I find my F-50 doesn't respond all that well to distortion pedals in the distortion chann. Besides I get all the OD I need from the amp. I use the GE-7 for boosting solo's. It works great, it pushs the preamp and gives me both volume and tone controls for the boost.

"sasquatch"

08-14-2006, 01:14 PM

Originally posted by GTM
I use a Boss GE-7 graphic eg pedal for clean boost. I find my F-50 doesn't respond all that well to distortion pedals in the distortion chann. Besides I get all the OD I need from the amp. I use the GE-7 for boosting solo's. It works great, it pushs the preamp and gives me both volume and tone controls for the boost.

it will, but you have to keep the gain between 9:00 and 10:00 or it will just be overkill.

GTM

08-14-2006, 01:20 PM

Originally posted by doggage5050

it will, but you have to keep the gain between 9:00 and 10:00 or it will just be overkill.

Your right about that. At home I can and do use a bunce of OD pedals and yes...I agree you have to keep the chann. volume down.

On gigs where I can crank up the master I don't even use the contour switch that much. I get all I need from the amp itself except that I like to boost up my solo's and push the preamp a little harder. I've tried a bunch of OD pedals set to clean for boost but none work as well (for me) as the GE-7 (at gig volumes).

UsrName

08-14-2006, 01:22 PM

I remember seeing a parallel to series loop mod somewhere in this huge thread. I've looked through about half of the pages, but couldn't find it. Does anyone have this diagram or the instructions or what page it's on? Thanks.

GTM

08-14-2006, 01:24 PM

musicdog400

08-14-2006, 02:30 PM

UsrName

08-14-2006, 02:32 PM

Originally posted by musicdog400

Parallel to series mod (http://www.oz.net/~markw/Nomad%20Loop%20Series%20Mod.pdf)

Thanks, appreciate it. :thu:

AshyLarry

08-15-2006, 11:34 AM

Well my F-30 arrived yesterday, after ups teased me by telling me it would be here last friday then rescheduling it to yesterday, and I love this thing. I had never played a F series before but I had played a Triple Rec w/ 4x12 cab that my friend owns. I have to say I am more than pleased with my choice. Its defiently not a triple rec, but I like it better. Sounds so amazing, I can't wait to get out of work and play all night. I guess I have about 100 pages of this thread to read so I can learn how to tweak it perfectly.

That's all, just wanted to share the excitement.

Dann'sTheMan

08-15-2006, 02:28 PM

Originally posted by AshyLarry
Well my F-30 arrived yesterday, after ups teased me by telling me it would be here last friday then rescheduling it to yesterday, and I love this thing. I had never played a F series before but I had played a Triple Rec w/ 4x12 cab that my friend owns. I have to say I am more than pleased with my choice. Its defiently not a triple rec, but I like it better. Sounds so amazing, I can't wait to get out of work and play all night. I guess I have about 100 pages of this thread to read so I can learn how to tweak it perfectly.

That's all, just wanted to share the excitement.

Congratulations AshyLarry,

and welcome to the F-series brotherhood! I hope it puts a grin on your face a mile wide! :cool:

Big smiles,

Andy.

Lt_Core

08-15-2006, 05:37 PM

Originally posted by GTM
I use a Boss GE-7 graphic eg pedal for clean boost. I find my F-50 doesn't respond all that well to distortion pedals in the distortion chann. Besides I get all the OD I need from the amp. I use the GE-7 for boosting solo's. It works great, it pushs the preamp and gives me both volume and tone controls for the boost.

I was also using this as well. I bumped up the mids, too. Works pretty good. I have to use mine in the guitar input pedal chain. I have the 1/4" TS attenuator mod so I can't use the effects loop. Might have to break down and get the Weber Mini Mass one of these days.

Dumo

08-15-2006, 09:36 PM

I've had my Mesa F30 for a year and a half to two years with little to no problems. This is one of the original 400 BTW but it's been serviced and fixed suppossedly. Just retubed it a couple days ago with new 12AX7s and the power tubes less than a couple months ago. So anyway, retubed it, was using an EB volume pedal in the loop and everything sounded rockin', perfect, no problems. Today went to play and no sound. Nothing. Lights on, tubes glowing like usual, just no sound. WTF? Any ideas? Thanks in advance.

Dumo

08-15-2006, 10:12 PM

Update: I noticed cranking the master to like 2-3 o'clock I started to get some sound and even more sound (bedroom levels) when I engaged my RAT pedal on the 2nd and contour channels. No clean. Is that V1 then of the brand new preamp tubes?

Dumo

08-15-2006, 10:51 PM

Final Update: I must be learning something on these damn forums. I was right bad V1. Thanks for all your help. LOL

GTM

08-16-2006, 05:42 AM

Originally posted by Lt_Core

I was also using this as well. I bumped up the mids, too. Works pretty good. I have to use mine in the guitar input pedal chain. I have the 1/4" TS attenuator mod so I can't use the effects loop. Might have to break down and get the Weber Mini Mass one of these days.

I prefer to use the GE-7 in the input. The whole idea (for me) is to boost up the signal to the preamp and push those tubes a little harder into harmonic distortion (plus get a little more volume for solo's). I use a Digitech 2120 rack effects processor in the loop as well as a Hotplate. The Hotplate is for home use only, I have never had a need to take the Hotplate out to a gig or rehearsal.

UsrName

08-16-2006, 07:58 AM

Originally posted by Dumo
Final Update: I must be learning something on these damn forums. I was right bad V1. Thanks for all your help. LOL

Glad it worked out. Trial and error is good for all of us sometimes as long as it doesn't blow anything up too bad. Now I know what to do if I have a similar problem. Thanks. :thu:

Lt_Core

08-16-2006, 08:28 AM

Originally posted by GTM
The Hotplate is for home use only, I have never had a need to take the Hotplate out to a gig or rehearsal.

That must be one loud rehearsal! :)

gagnon

08-16-2006, 08:42 AM

I A/B'd a Stilletto combo next to an F-50 at the store the other day. I thought the Stilletto sounded way better. Any comments on that from the folks that know? I'm not trying to be a troll. *looking for a smilie that shrugs*

hal9000

08-16-2006, 09:00 AM

Originally posted by gagnon
I A/B'd a Stilletto combo next to an F-50 at the store the other day. I thought the Stilletto sounded way better. Any comments on that from the folks that know? I'm not trying to be a troll. *looking for a smilie that shrugs* It's subjective, so your "way better" may be "not so much" depending on whose listening.

If you prefer the EL-34 British voicing of the Stiletto, then it makes sense you'd like it more than the F-50 which is American through and through.

I liked the Stiletto pretty well, but the first revision didn't have enough gain for me, the liquid mode was muddy, and the overdrive was very bright compared to what I like in an amp. To this day, the F-100 has my favorite voicing in the Mesa line for clean and mean.

I'd like to play an Ace sometime. However, before I would invest in that kind of amp, I'd seriously check out the Splawn Quickrod and Voodoo Hex which by all accounts are stunning.

"sasquatch"

08-16-2006, 09:27 AM

Originally posted by hal9000
It's subjective, so your "way better" may be "not so much" depending on whose listening.

If you prefer the EL-34 British voicing of the Stiletto, then it makes sense you'd like it more than the F-50 which is American through and through.

I liked the Stiletto pretty well, but the first revision didn't have enough gain for me, the liquid mode was muddy, and the overdrive was very bright compared to what I like in an amp. To this day, the F-100 has my favorite voicing in the Mesa line for clean and mean.

I'd like to play an Ace sometime. However, before I would invest in that kind of amp, I'd seriously check out the Splawn Quickrod and Voodoo Hex which by all accounts are stunning.

the new ace is fantastic. absolutely nails CLASSIC marshall sounds. stays in plexi territory, with not too much emphasis on new marshall. the cleans are outrageous; they are more open and dynamic and sound better than the F-series, imho. you have got to play one. VERY impressive.

Antti Loponen

08-16-2006, 10:15 AM

I've had my F-30 now since December, and I may need to retube it soon. Which tubes would you recommend? I could use some preamp tubes with less gain than the stock ones. If I buy any other brand than Mesa, do I need to have it biased? Is it worth the price of biasing to buy the Mesa tubes?

Ogi-wan

08-17-2006, 01:41 AM

If your F-30 is under warranty, it might be better to stay with Mesa tubes just to preserve your rights under that warranty.

As for biasing, there's no need to bias a Mesa amp, and it's generally not possible to do so anyway, at least not without a lot of effort and modification to the amp itself.

Originally posted by Antti Loponen
I've had my F-30 now since December, and I may need to retube it soon. Which tubes would you recommend? I could use some preamp tubes with less gain than the stock ones. If I buy any other brand than Mesa, do I need to have it biased? Is it worth the price of biasing to buy the Mesa tubes?

Antti Loponen

08-17-2006, 05:40 AM

Originally posted by Ogi-wan
If your F-30 is under warranty, it might be better to stay with Mesa tubes just to preserve your rights under that warranty.

As for biasing, there's no need to bias a Mesa amp, and it's generally not possible to do so anyway, at least not without a lot of effort and modification to the amp itself.

Yes, the warranty is a year so it ends in December. I thought that's when I'd retube my F-30.

I'd like to try the JJ tubes. Can I just throw in a matched pair without biasing?

Dann'sTheMan

08-17-2006, 06:00 AM

For pre-amp tubes, obviously they don't need any biasing at all. Just try whatever you fancy. For the power tubes, go to a reputable and experienced dealer and ask for tubes that fall within Mesa's specs. No biasing is required - indeed you cannot adjust the bias current in Mesa amps without modding the amp (simply replacing a normal resistor with a variable resistor). :)

Big smiles,

Andy.

UsrName

08-17-2006, 07:43 AM

Surfcaster

08-17-2006, 07:45 AM

Originally posted by gagnon
I A/B'd a Stilletto combo next to an F-50 at the store the other day. I thought the Stilletto sounded way better. Any comments on that from the folks that know? I'm not trying to be a troll. *looking for a smilie that shrugs*

I'm very interested in the new Stiletto Ace. The more time goes by the more I come to realize that I'm really a Plexi guy at heart. I was disappointed a few weeks ago when I was at the closest Mesa dealer (2 hours away) that carries a good selection of Mesa amps and they didn't have any in stock.

If it's really as good as people are saying, I think there may be one in my future! Don't know whether that means in place of my F50 or in addition to it...but if the clean channel is that good, it could well be in place of.

As it is, I do my little pre/post EQ thing to get more of that Plexi vibe with my F50.

UsrName

08-17-2006, 07:46 AM

Well, I replaced the power tubes with a brand new pair of Sovtek EL84s and swapped the preamp tubes around with some JJ 12AX7s I had. The hum is still there. It disappears when in standby and also when I put the speaker mute on.

Any ideas? Anyone? Please help!

"sasquatch"

08-17-2006, 09:13 AM

Originally posted by Surfcaster

I'm very interested in the new Stiletto Ace. The more time goes by the more I come to realize that I'm really a Plexi guy at heart. I was disappointed a few weeks ago when I was at the closest Mesa dealer (2 hours away) that carries a good selection of Mesa amps and they didn't have any in stock.

If it's really as good as people are saying, I think there may be one in my future! Don't know whether that means in place of my F50 or in addition to it...but if the clean channel is that good, it could well be in place of.

As it is, I do my little pre/post EQ thing to get more of that Plexi vibe with my F50.

aw man, you have got to play one. the cleans are better than the F-series; very sweet, very lively and dynamic. i even think they are better than the lonestar. it does a better job at blues and breakup sounds than the F as well. the liquid gain isn't as menacing as the F50 ch2 w/contour, but is every bit as sweet, with a nice british grind. crunch mode is so sweet with the tube rectifier and in tweed mode; so squishy and alive. you can probably get a wider amount of sounds from the F-series cleans, but, imho, they just aren't quite as good as stilletto cleans. i believe a stilletto ace and an F-series would complement each other REALLY well in a mix.

Joeytpg

08-17-2006, 10:40 AM

come on f-30 brothers......post your clips, pic, or reviews....i'm about to buy an f-30 and want to build more GAS! :D

AshyLarry

08-17-2006, 12:12 PM

Here's a pic of my F30, new to me for 4 days now. I love this thing. Put the Marshall its next to shame.

http://static.flickr.com/88/216553311_c6c5c8b9b7.jpg

seajay

08-17-2006, 12:29 PM

Originally posted by doggage5050

there were problems with them. mesa made some changes to the circuitry or something. i had #221, and it was a terd. it was the F50 in the F30 enclosure.

So is it the F-50s in the F-30 enclosures that suck?

"sasquatch"

08-17-2006, 12:34 PM

Originally posted by seajay

So is it the F-50s in the F-30 enclosures that suck?

i think they made the enclosure switch along with the revamp, but can't tell you for sure. it is the first 400 serial numbers that "sucked."

Lt_Core

08-17-2006, 02:18 PM

How many guys use their F-50 on an amp stand? I have to use mine on the floor to get the added chunk for palm mutes, hard rock, etc. Besides the bass, I just don't get why it sounds so different off the floor. Sounds like it's a different amp altogether. Tried all of the settings in this thread. Nasal-city. Just don't get it.

I really want to use a stand so the sound is more in my face during gigs but it just doesn't sound good on a stand. Singin' the F-50 blues :(

hal9000

08-17-2006, 02:26 PM

Originally posted by Lt_Core
How many guys use their F-50 on an amp stand? I have to use mine on the floor to get the added chunk for palm mutes, hard rock, etc. Besides the bass, I just don't get why it sounds so different off the floor. Sounds like it's a different amp altogether. Tried all of the settings in this thread. Nasal-city. Just don't get it.

I really want to use a stand so the sound is more in my face during gigs but it just doesn't sound good on a stand. Singin' the F-50 blues :( Every amp sounds different on a stand. In fact, you're probably hearing the amp correctly when it's on a stand as compared to the floor as far as treble is concerned. The floor adds a lot of bass due to coupling. If you really need more bass, put your amp on something that is well-coupled to the floor, like a roadcase or wooden box, etc. Or, you could put an EQ in the loop, leave the amp in the stand, and have more bass than the floor can give you.

Dann'sTheMan

08-17-2006, 04:47 PM

Originally posted by UsrName
Well, I replaced the power tubes with a brand new pair of Sovtek EL84s and swapped the preamp tubes around with some JJ 12AX7s I had. The hum is still there. It disappears when in standby and also when I put the speaker mute on.

Any ideas? Anyone? Please help!

Sounds like you burnt out a component - hopefully something inexpensive (especially as the amp is largely working). I think a warranty diagnosis/trip to the tech is in order. Hope everything works out smoothly for you. :)

Big smiles,

Andy.

UsrName

08-17-2006, 08:17 PM

Originally posted by Dann'sTheMan

Sounds like you burnt out a component - hopefully something inexpensive (especially as the amp is largely working). I think a warranty diagnosis/trip to the tech is in order. Hope everything works out smoothly for you. :)

Big smiles,

Andy.

I was trying to avoid that since I bought used and have no warranty. I guess those are the breaks when you go the used route, though. :(

I might have a look if I decide to convert the fx loop to serial. :idea:

Joeytpg

08-17-2006, 10:51 PM

Originally posted by UsrName

I might have a look if I decide to convert the fx loop to serial. :idea:

what's the benefit of doin' that? :confused:

Dann'sTheMan

08-18-2006, 04:55 AM

Originally posted by UsrName

I was trying to avoid that since I bought used and have no warranty. I guess those are the breaks when you go the used route, though. :(

I might have a look if I decide to convert the fx loop to serial. :idea:

How about giving Mesa a call directly? Perhaps they can guide you regarding next steps, and perhaps help you fault trace a little further.

Although Mesa are not obliged to help, I would hope they would be quite understanding, as you've done all the things you can do from your side, including trying new tubes - and it's not as if your were using the amp unreasonably: simply cranking it and rocking out. :)

Big smiles,

Andy.

GTM

08-18-2006, 05:34 AM

Originally posted by Joeytpg

what's the benefit of doin' that? :confused:

I'm wondering that too, what is the benefit of a serial fx loop??

1longhorn

08-18-2006, 05:48 AM

just picked up an f-50....very excited, but...
she just doesnt sound right: lifeless, flat and dull...
it's two years old, otherwise in excellent condition...
could it be time for a re-tube?...that's what i'm thinking...
maybe the hi-gain set from eurotubes....
whaddaya think?....

Dann'sTheMan

08-18-2006, 06:07 AM

Originally posted by Joeytpg

what's the benefit of doin' that? :confused:

The F-series' parallel loop only allows a wet mix of 90% (rather than 100%). This means there will always be some of the dry amp sound in the mix. This may cause a problem with certain FX that are running in the loop e.g. cannot fade to silence with a volume pedal, or EQ will only effect 90% of the sound. Perhaps the most serious issue that might occur is that digital FX run in the loop introduce a small timing delay, that when mixed back with the dry amp signal, can cause phasing problems.

Now, I run my the digital FX from my G-Major in my parallel F-50 loop (set at 90%), and I don't have any serious problems (including phasing issues). Some owners prefer to be cautious, and get the very simple serial mod done (disconnect one wire, and resolder another). :)

Big smiles,

Andy.

UsrName

08-18-2006, 07:47 AM

Originally posted by Dann'sTheMan

How about giving Mesa a call directly? Perhaps they can guide you regarding next steps, and perhaps help you fault trace a little further.

Although Mesa are not obliged to help, I would hope they would be quite understanding, as you've done all the things you can do from your side, including trying new tubes - and it's not as if your were using the amp unreasonably: simply cranking it and rocking out. :)

Big smiles,

Andy.

I did call Mesa first and the rep told me to check a few things and finally replace the tubes. I called back after the problem was still there and of course he said take it to a tech. :(

UsrName

08-18-2006, 07:51 AM

Originally posted by GTM

I'm wondering that too, what is the benefit of a serial fx loop??

All I know is that when I use the loop the tone changes, and not for the better - even with just the fx loop master plugged in.

I owned an amp that had both parallel and serial loop and when I used the parallel, the tone would change in the same way. When I used the series, I noticed no change at all. I figure it's only a couple of wires, so it's worth a shot.

hal9000

08-18-2006, 09:05 AM

Originally posted by 1longhorn
just picked up an f-50....very excited, but...
she just doesnt sound right: lifeless, flat and dull...
it's two years old, otherwise in excellent condition...
could it be time for a re-tube?...that's what i'm thinking...
maybe the hi-gain set from eurotubes....
whaddaya think?.... 1longhorn, welcome to the forum and the F-series Brotherhood! :)

Yeah, you'll probably want to get a new set of power tubes at the very least. Preamp tubes don't need to be replaced unless they actually go bad. However, since they are so easy to replace, buying a new set from Eurotubes is a good bet. Then, you can mix and match until you find the perfect setup for your tastes. Always use the lowest noise preamp tube first (V1) since every stage after that will amplify the noise. I'm sure you know after reading the manual that replacing power tubes is just like changing a light bulb and Eurotubes can match duets for you according to Mesa's spec's.

FWIW, I’ve stuck with Mesa tubes (2nd set of 6L6s, 1st set of 12AX7s minus 1 new) throughout my F-100’s 3.5 year lifespan and I’ve been happy. However, I’m going to order the Eurotubes set for my next change just to see what they are all about.

ashjn

08-19-2006, 09:37 AM

For guys that have tried both....

How does the FX loop attenuator sound in comparison to using a real attenuator such as the Hot Plate or similar?

Lt_Core

08-19-2006, 10:35 AM

Originally posted by ashjn
For guys that have tried both....

How does the FX loop attenuator sound in comparison to using a real attenuator such as the Hot Plate or similar?

Great question!!! I'm using the FX loop attenuator and don't want to drop more cash on a "real" attenuator if it's going to sound similar. Even though I miss using my effects loop for chorus, delay and tremelo.

LightHerUp

08-19-2006, 11:53 AM

I was wondering about that too. I'd actually like to hear some clips of the FX loop attenuator mod in action.

By the way how does that work exactly? I mean how do you EQ it? Crank the FX volume 100% and then adjust the rest? Does it wear out your tubes faster?

fritzreiser

08-19-2006, 06:16 PM

New F-30 owner here. I have 2 cabs for it; Earcandy 1x12 w/ Eminence Governor and an Avatar 2x12 with Celestion Classic Lead 80s. The rig in the picture will be my church rig. Very portable. Only pedal I am using right now will be a Bad Monkey as a boost for leads.

Tomorrow will be the first time for the F-30 at church after about 5 months of using a Valvetech VAC 25.

http://images.andale.com/f2/105/127/10793409/1156130599386_000_1096.JPG

ashjn

08-19-2006, 08:32 PM

Originally posted by Lt_Core

Great question!!! I'm using the FX loop attenuator and don't want to drop more cash on a "real" attenuator if it's going to sound similar. Even though I miss using my effects loop for chorus, delay and tremelo.

Me too. I just really miss my DD-20 in the loop. On Ch 2, it sounds like ASS infront of the amp

hal9000

08-20-2006, 06:17 AM

Originally posted by ashjn
For guys that have tried both....

How does the FX loop attenuator sound in comparison to using a real attenuator such as the Hot Plate or similar? In the manner that I use my F-100, the Hot Plate and loop attenuation sound very similar. If you're pushing the power stage more, then the Hot Plate sounds better, which is what it was designed for. I used to employ my Hot Plate on my F-100, but I've found that I get almost the same tone at practice and gig levels just using the G-Major for a final master. So, it's less to carry to a gig. I use my Hot Plate at home all the time with all of my amps. My bedroom volume solution is to use my Hot Plate as a load, run through a PODxt Live for cab sim and FX and reamplify through my computer speakers. My silent rig just substitutes headphones for speakers.

My best low volume tone still using my F-100's speakers is with both the Hot Plate and G-Major. I setup my Hot Plate for -12 dB. That's the most I like to go. Then, I'll bring down the rest of the level with my G-Major.

hal9000

08-20-2006, 06:24 AM

Originally posted by LightHerUp
I was wondering about that too. I'd actually like to hear some clips of the FX loop attenuator mod in action.

By the way how does that work exactly? I mean how do you EQ it? Crank the FX volume 100% and then adjust the rest? Does it wear out your tubes faster? The theory of operation for the mix pot master is on the diagram (sig). If you're wondering how best to use the mix pot once you've made the connections, start with it all the way down (fully dry). Then, adjust your OD master to roughly 9:00 or above. Finally, rotate the mix pot until you get to your desired volume.

No, the tubes shouldn't wear out any faster because of the loop mod. Your power tubes will actually wear a little less since there is a smaller signal pushing them.

hal9000

08-20-2006, 06:30 AM

Originally posted by Lt_Core

Great question!!! I'm using the FX loop attenuator and don't want to drop more cash on a "real" attenuator if it's going to sound similar. Even though I miss using my effects loop for chorus, delay and tremelo. If you have an output level control on any of your FX boxes, you may be able to get the same results as using the mix master volume. I get my attenuation from the G-Major in the loop of my F-100. You'll want to adjust the mix pot all the way to 90% (fully wet), and adjust the mix of each effect accordingly. Then, the box with a level control will allow you to take the overall signal down to what you need for volume. You can always build the box I detailed earlier in the thread or buy an EQ, volume pedal, etc. EQs are really nice to have by the way, especially in the loop.

hal9000

08-20-2006, 06:41 AM

Originally posted by fritzreiser
New F-30 owner here. I have 2 cabs for it; Earcandy 1x12 w/ Eminence Governor and an Avatar 2x12 with Celestion Classic Lead 80s. The rig in the picture will be my church rig. Very portable. Only pedal I am using right now will be a Bad Monkey as a boost for leads.

Tomorrow will be the first time for the F-30 at church after about 5 months of using a Valvetech VAC 25.

<snip>Welcome to the forum and the F-series Brotherhood frtizreiser! :)

Please tell us more about the kind of music you play and the rest of your gear.

I also have a VAC, but mine is 22 W. Does yours have 2x6V6s? Is yours the final revision F? How do you like it compared to your F-30?

hal9000

08-20-2006, 06:44 AM

Originally posted by ashjn

Me too. I just really miss my DD-20 in the loop. On Ch 2, it sounds like ASS infront of the amp IIRC, the DD-20 has a level control buried somewhere in the controls. You should be able to put it in the loop and get attenuation at the same time. Let us know how it works out for you.

Lt_Core

08-20-2006, 09:30 AM

Originally posted by hal9000
IIRC, the DD-20 has a level control buried somewhere in the controls. You should be able to put it in the loop and get attenuation at the same time. Let us know how it works out for you.

Seriously? Will have to look into that.

UsrName

08-20-2006, 12:10 PM

I got together with a drummer friend of mine last night. Of course, I brought along the F-30 and had no problem keeping up with him - he plays pretty damn loud, too. I had the master a bit past 9:00 and he told me to turn it down! So it stayed at 9:00 the whole time.

I like the tone, however, it gets a bit harsh as I turn the master up, with the gain around 12:00-2:00 and contour on. Do you think a retube kit from Eurotubes might help or is it just the nature of the EL84s?

hal9000

08-20-2006, 12:29 PM

Originally posted by UsrName
I got together with a drummer friend of mine last night. Of course, I brought along the F-30 and had no problem keeping up with him - he plays pretty damn loud, too. I had the master a bit past 9:00 and he told me to turn it down! So it stayed at 9:00 the whole time.

I like the tone, however, it gets a bit harsh as I turn the master up, with the gain around 12:00-2:00 and contour on. Do you think a retube kit from Eurotubes might help or is it just the nature of the EL84s? As I open up the master, I usually drop the treble and gain as well. You're hearing changes as the volume goes up and will become more sensitive to treble.

How about turning the treble down a bit? Also, I don't like playing with drummers without earplugs. I find that even moderate levels hurt my ears, especially the cymbals.

plumptone

08-21-2006, 06:16 AM

Hi brothers. Quick query, and any input would be appreciated. I got my F-50 a month or so ago. So far everything's going pretty well, now that I have spent some time with her. But there's one issue that's puzzling me.

I have noticed that the volume of the two channels is dramatically different. In the overdrive channel with the gain at 1:30 and master at about 10 o'clock, the amp is really nice. Loud enough for most of my applications, and generally very satisfying overall. However, in order to balance my clean channel in terms of overall output, I have to run the master for that channel at approximately 1:00 or 1:30 (with gain at about 1:00). Is this normal?

In addition, I find that I can actually stand in the same room and turn the amp ALL THE WAY UP in the clean channel. THere's very little discernible incremental difference in output once I get the master past 3 o'clock. It's loud, but definitely not ear-splitting. The reason I question this is that I also have a DC-3 (which is rated at 35 watts). If I run that amp in the clean channel with the gain at half way, and the master output at even close to half way, it is so loud it's almost impossible to stay in the same room. It doesn't seem to me like I'm getting full output from the amp based on this.

Since I had the unit custom ordered, and it arrived via UPS, I'm wondering if it's possible I have some tube issues.

Can anyone shed any light on how loud my amp should be when I'm running the clean channel? (And I realize it's next to impossible to describe volume in abstract terms - but any subjective help would be appreciated). Where do you guys find you have to put the master in the clean channel? I'm playing in mid-sized rooms (100 - 200 people - sometimes micing the amp - when it's no issue, and other times not micing - where it is an issue. For other festival-type gigs outside, I'm finding I have to run the amp pretty hard, and it feels a bit thin, and I get nervous that I'm running out of headroom. Thanks!

GTM

08-21-2006, 06:19 AM

Originally posted by ashjn
For guys that have tried both....

How does the FX loop attenuator sound in comparison to using a real attenuator such as the Hot Plate or similar?

First I'd like to say that there are big differences in tone if we're talking "bedroom volume" or "band practice/gig volume". So depending on which your trying to attenuate will yield different results.

At "bedroom volume with the FX loop atten. you are basically just cranking the preamp tubes and sending very little signal to the power tubes. It doesn't matter if you have the master volume on 10, your not pushing the power tubes. I’ve noticed with this mod that you loose a lot of “touch” dynamics. Again, depending on if your playing “bedroom” or gig volume, results will vary. I went this route and didn't like it. I prefer the Hotplate. The Hotplate allows you to send the full preamp signal to “cranked" power tubes allowing the amp to sound and respond just as it would a high volume. Well not exactly, you’re not pushing the speaker which is a big part of the sound. So hopefully in theory this explains the difference between the FX loop mod and using a Hotplate type attenuator. I suggest that if your interested in a Hotplate, do what I did, search online, there are some very good prices, then buy from Musiciansfriend (they will price match). If you’re not happy with the Hotplate, send it back, they will give you a full refund. It's the safest way to go.:thu:

hal9000

08-21-2006, 06:34 AM

Originally posted by plumptone
Hi brothers. Quick query, and any input would be appreciated. I got my F-50 a month or so ago. So far everything's going pretty well, now that I have spent some time with her. But there's one issue that's puzzling me.

I have noticed that the volume of the two channels is dramatically different. In the overdrive channel with the gain at 1:30 and master at about 10 o'clock, the amp is really nice. Loud enough for most of my applications, and generally very satisfying overall. However, in order to balance my clean channel in terms of overall output, I have to run the master for that channel at approximately 1:00 or 1:30 (with gain at about 1:00). Is this normal?

In addition, I find that I can actually stand in the same room and turn the amp ALL THE WAY UP in the clean channel. THere's very little discernible incremental difference in output once I get the master past 3 o'clock. It's loud, but definitely not ear-splitting. The reason I question this is that I also have a DC-3 (which is rated at 35 watts). If I run that amp in the clean channel with the gain at half way, and the master output at even close to half way, it is so loud it's almost impossible to stay in the same room. It doesn't seem to me like I'm getting full output from the amp based on this.

Since I had the unit custom ordered, and it arrived via UPS, I'm wondering if it's possible I have some tube issues.

Can anyone shed any light on how loud my amp should be when I'm running the clean channel? (And I realize it's next to impossible to describe volume in abstract terms - but any subjective help would be appreciated). Where do you guys find you have to put the master in the clean channel? I'm playing in mid-sized rooms (100 - 200 people - sometimes micing the amp - when it's no issue, and other times not micing - where it is an issue. For other festival-type gigs outside, I'm finding I have to run the amp pretty hard, and it feels a bit thin, and I get nervous that I'm running out of headroom. Thanks! It's definitely not normal to have to crank the volume on the clean channel to 1-1:30 to get it even with the OD master @ 10:00. I usually leave my OD master @ 10:00 as well using the SD Custom on my Ravelle, and with my Fat Strat's middle single coil, and the gain on clean @ 12:30, the clean master needs to be around 11:00 or so. It's normal that the clean would have to be higher on the master than the overdrive, but not as much as you're seeing.

You probably have a tube problem, and if all channels seem to be affected, then perhaps V1 is the culprit. If you have any known-good preamp tubes (like from your DC-3), substitute them until you find the problem. If that doesn't do it, you might want to try some new power tubes which should still be under warranty from Mesa. Give them a call and they'll send you a new set. Finally, make sure everything else in the signal chain is working properly, e.g. cables are good, there is nothing in the loop, guitar has volume @ 10, etc.

BTW, I've only had my F-100 up to about 12:00 on both channels which is about all I can stand even with earplugs in. It's so loud that your chest get beat like it stole something. :)

GTM

08-21-2006, 06:36 AM

fritzreiser

08-21-2006, 07:26 AM

Please tell us more about the kind of music you play and the rest of your gear.

I also have a VAC, but mine is 22 W. Does yours have 2x6V6s? Is yours the final revision F? How do you like it compared to your F-30? [/B]

Thanks for the welcome, Hal. Our praise band plays all kinds of Contemporary Christian stuff. From light (Chris Tomlin, etc.) to heavy (Kutless, etc.) I play Fender, Charvel and Jackson Strats.

I sold the VAC when I acquired the F-30. It was 2 6V6s with the F mod. It was a great sounding amp. But...I was using pedals to get all of my sounds. I also wanted to switch to EL-84s.

I love just about all of the F-series clips that I have heard in this thread, but the deal closers were Andershoeg's F-30 clips. As soon as I heard those, I knew that the F-30 was what I was looking for. I wanted an amp that would give a modern take on the EL-84 sound.

BTW, Hal, thanks for all of your settings and graphics. Very nice work.

Lt_Core

08-21-2006, 07:44 AM

hal9000

08-21-2006, 08:10 AM

Originally posted by Lt_Core

Same here, you're not alone. I bought mine used and the amp was purchased new in February of 2006 at GC. How much would a set of tubes cost from Mesa?

Also, how does the Hot Plate compare to the Weber Mini Mass? Thanks! Lt_Core, you can get the Mesa tubes for your amp from here: http://mesa.stores.yahoo.net/6l6str440.html They are $42 per matched duet.

You can also get any number of Mesa spec'd tubes from places like www.dougstubes.com and www.eurotubes.com.

GTM

08-21-2006, 08:10 AM

[B]Also, how does the Hot Plate compare to the Weber Mini Mass? Thanks! [B]

Have a good read. Scroll all the way down for info on Weber Mass.

THD Hotplate - Power Attenuator

The THD Hotplate is one of the finest power attuators on the market today. With a host of features at its disposal, it is by far the most comprehensive power attenuator on the market and its tuned network closely emulates the actual reactance found when driving a speaker cabinet!

$265.00 - Available in Store

What is a power attenuator?

A power attenuator is a device placed between the speaker output and the speaker cabinet. It acts like a huge master volume control and permits the amp to be turned up most or all the way while absorbing most of the power generated by the amplifier and turning this power into heat. It passes a small part of the power to the speaker.

Why do I want one?

Our customers use attenuators because their amps sound good at high volumes, especially with full distortion, but in rehearsal, small clubs, or at home, they can't turn the amp up. They are also used in recording studios for better separation between the instruments, and for use when the speaker sounds best at low levels, or if it can't handle the power output. The Hot Plate also makes a perfect dummy load.

How does a Hot Plate work?

A THD Hot Plate is a tuned network of capacitors, resistors and inductors which adjusts the overall EQ as the volume is turned down to compensate for the human ear's frequency response. Your ear perceives sounds differently at different volumes: the louder the sound, the more sensitive your ears are to highs and lows. As the volume drops, your ear becomes more sensitive to the mid-range, and less so for highs and lows. The Hot Plate compensates for this, working like the "Loudness" switch on a hi-fi. The THD Hot Plate is the first, and for now, the only attenuator that is frequency compensated.

How do I use it?

The THD Hot Plate is designed for use strictly with vacuum tube guitar amplifiers, and each version is optimized for a specific impedance (2, 4, 8, or 16 ohms.) These inductive loads are frequency compensated, which means it will give you the best possible sound for that impedance speaker and amplifier combination.

To use one: Connect the speaker output of the amp into the input of the Hot Plate, then connect the speaker cabinet to one of the two speaker outputs of the Hot Plate (doesn't matter which one). The amp thinks the Hot Plate is a speaker, so the sound stays true even when you turn the volume down.

What else does it do?

Built-in Noise Reduction
The THD Hot Plate is the only attenuator on the market with built-in noise reduction to reduce the hiss and hum between notes. A passive, single-ended noise reduction system which provides approximately 10 dB of broad band noise reduction without gating or pumping, and without affecting the tone of the amp. A by-product of the noise reduction circuit is that it generates light as you play. The harder you play, the brighter it glows.

Tone Controls
The Hot Plate is also the only attenuator offering a Bright switch and a Deep switch for tailoring your sound. The Bright switch gives you two different high frequency levels so you can compensate for an overly bright, or dull speaker cabinet. The Deep switch offers two distinct bass settings to help you fill out the bottom end, or reduce the bass in a cabinet with too much low end.

Adjustable Line Out
THD Hot Plates also feature a Line Out, which is adjustable by its own volume control giving it a wide range of applications. At higher settings, it can provide enough signal to drive the input of a separate power amp for slaving. The middle range of settings is useful for most rack mount effects. And turned most of the way down, the Hot Plate's Line Out will drive the instrument input of another guitar amplifier for extra power and volume.

Will it hurt my amp?

The THD Hot Plate will not damage your amplifier. When you play continuously at full output, you cause your tubes to age more quickly than they would at lower volumes. Using a Hot Plate will maintain the life of your tubes at exactly the same rate, no more or less, as when you play straight through the speaker.

Using a Hot Plate will also not hurt your transformer any more than playing through a speaker, as long as the impedances are matched (i.e. 8 ohm setting on the amp, 8 ohm speakers and an 8 ohm attenuator). If you are using a well-made amp, then the transformer should last indefinitely, regardless of whether you are driving a speaker or attenuator. If you are using an inferior amp and the transformer blows, it would have done this whether you play through a speaker or an attenuator. The Hot Plate puts the same load on the transformer as a speaker (which is why it makes such a good dummy load)

Where can I get one?

You can order a THD Hotplate available in 2, 4, 8 and 16 ohm versions online at the Jackson Ampworks Store.

Weber VST MiniMASS - Power Attenuator

The Weber MiniMASS Power Attenuator is similar to the THD Hotplate, except that the Weber Mini-MASS speaker load incorporates a loudspeaker as the load. It is not a fan motor with inductors, capacitors, and resistors, it is an actual loudspeaker. With that, you get a dynamic load reacting with the output of the amplifier it is connected to. All of the complexity and variations
in frequency response and impedance occur with the MASS since the speaker motor exhibits physical movement. Therefore, the MASS is just like
connecting to a speaker, only the MASS is quiet.

The MiniMASS comes standard with a switch for selecting either 4, 8, or 16 ohms, as well treble compensation, a bypass switch, and a line out tap for slaving to external FX processors or power amps.

Because of the unique design of the MASS, the speaker may be disconnected entirely when the MASS volume control is set at minimum. This allows the MASS to serve as a dummy load for testing amps, DI-only use, etc.

$100.00 - Available in Store
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