nuB q - Technics...Reputaion: Hype or Real?

[Pitchfork^666]

O.k., I've been reading this forum enough to know that most people say that the Gemini DJ starter packs are crap and the Stanton ones can be good but not good enough.

The universal feeling seems to be save money, and buy Technics.

...but I could buy one of these starter packs for less than a single Technics and start to learn, and replace each table and the mixer as I can afford to.

So what makes the Technics SO much better than the other tables? I mean, is it really such an incredably noticable difference? Or is it one of those things that is probably, in fact, better; but not as drastically as everyone says it is?

If it is so much better as everyone says...why?

Thank you

[Pitchfork^666]

Oh, my needs are for home use at first to learn, and mostly mixing (probably not much scratching...more jungle/D&B type stuff)

[This message has been edited by Pitchfork^666 (edited April 28, 2002).]

[bigsplendor]

Okay here's the deal. Technics have been the best turntables since the '70's. Granted, they may not look as cool as some of the new plastic decks, but no other deck has the durability and consistancy of Technics. You can start to learn on a starter pack, but you must realize that these packs are going to make it very difficult for you to learn. The turntables will speed up and slow down (more noticable on belt drive decks, but happens with the cheap direct drive motors too). This is going to make it extremely difficult for you to learn how to beatmatch. Also the mixers are generally crap. Your fader will bleed through and crackle, etc. So you have two choices...

1) Get a starter pack for a couple hundred dollars and spend months getting frustrated, or...

2) Save some money get some decent turntables and enjoy the art of DJ'ing.

However, before you do either find someone with a set of decks and ask them to let you try it out. Most Dj's are more than happy to spread the knowledge and enjoyment of Dj'ing. Make sure that this is something you really want to do before you make any investments.

I hope this helps, if not sorry. Good Luck & Happy Spinning! :)

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Who am I to judge one's perspective? -Common

[djsynrgy]

I have issues with starter packs. More often than not either the decks or the mixer, and in some cases BOTH are crap. Usually the mixer. I have yet to see an official 'starter pack' with both good decks and good mixer.

I think people put too much emphasis on starting with the best equipment. It's my personal opinion that if you start with decks that are less than the ever coveted 1200s, you have to work harder to achieve the same results, and you'll have a better appreciation for what good decks are when you finally do get them.

Me, I started to learn on a friends gemini xl-500s, not very good decks, but better than most belt drives.. I used them just enough to figure out that I wanted to REALLY learn DJing very badly. I fell in love instantly.

So I had a technics belt drive as part of my stereo, and that became the first part of my initial set up. Then I bought a used Gemini PT-1000 for $100, and a Numark DM-2000 mixer for about $150. My 'starter' kit cost me $250. It kept me going for my first year. I'm actually STILL using the PT-1000 and the numark, but I've replaced the belt drive with a stanton str8-80.

My advice to you is this: You're just starting out, and for all we know, you may end up deciding that you don't really like mixing much. There's no sense in blowing $1000 on equipment you won't appreciate yet. I say just try to get your hands on any used direct drive decks, and a decent mixer. I can give you specific reccomendations if you want, but it would help to know what kind of records you're planning on mixing. Whatever you do, just don't forget that records cost money too, and if you blow all your money on equipment, you'll be without records until you can afford to make another purchase. If you don't have a local DJ record shop, I reccomend either www.groovetech.com, (http://www.groovetech.com,) or www.planetxusa.com. (http://www.planetxusa.com.) I use groovetech on a regular basis, and their turnaround is excellent. Haven't used planetx, but I have friends that do, and they swear by it.

Technics 1200s/1210s are awesome decks, nobody is questioning that, but if you're just trying to learn, you don't need to go all out yet. Just my opinion. If there's anything at all I can do to assist you just let me know.

[bigsplendor]

Originally posted by djsynrgy:

You're just starting out, and for all we know, you may end up deciding that you don't really like mixing much. There's no sense in blowing $1000 on equipment you won't appreciate yet.

Good advice (as always ;)) but if you decide to go this route you should keep the limitations of your equiptment in mind. You don't want to jump in with horrible equiptment, get frustrated with it, and decide to give up. If you're able to learn and not get frustrated with a starter pack then you will be even better when you get a hold of some real decks like synergy said.

Peace

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Who am I to judge one's perspective? -Common

[Pitchfork^666]

Originally posted by djsynrgy:
I can give you specific reccomendations if you want, but it would help to know what kind of records you're planning on mixing.

You don't want to jump in with horrible equiptment, get frustrated with it, and decide to give up.

Wow! Thanks a lot you guys! This'll get me started. :)
So I guess what I need to know is what is good starter equipment that won't break the bank, but also won't be completely atrocious to learn on.

This'll be a bit difficult unfortunately because I have three separate goals.
First, I'm going to start spinning my ample obscure 80's record collection at my friend's club next year for money. Stuff that's not on CD (rare limited edition 12" Siousxie and the Banshees, The Cure, Depeche Mode, etc.)

Second (and more important to me), I'm going to be trying to put a set together mixing Powernoise and the more heavy industrial. I think most industrial DJs in my town dissapoint the crowd, so I want to see if I can do it better :) Get a good groove going for the G-ravers.

(Last, and least important, I'm kind of interested in using the Turn Tables as an intrument for my music project. Learning how to use the scratches as procussion and also mixing great Jungle and D&B breakbeats to back up the music that my band plays (heavy-loud-punkish stuff). I know it sounds like nu-metal...but honest, what's in my brain is something different.)

I listed my desires in order of what I think would be easiest to hardest. The most important to me is the second one, because I think it would be fun; and the first one, because I'll get a little money coming in from my friend. The last one is just something I'm planning down the road. Maybe 2-3 years from now.

I hope this is a help.

[This message has been edited by Pitchfork^666 (edited April 28, 2002).]

[bigsplendor]

That helps alot. In the clubs you'll be using some decent gear so it sounds like you just need some middle of the road gear to learn and practice on. I would get a pair of decent direct drive decks (check out the NUMARK TT-200's--I haven't got to try them myself, but I've heard good things. Plus they have straight & S-shaped tone arms). Then get a quality mixer. For spinning it's important to have good eq's & for scratching it's important to have good faders. Since you'll be doing both (like me :)) I would recommend my favorite mixers; the Numark SM series.

So for the decks your looking at $600 for both. And you could get the Numark SM-2 for $499 (keep in mind it has an optical crossfader that will never need to be replaced). You may want to get a chepaper mixer though. One thing I would stay away from is the Pioneer DJM300. Most Techno DJ use the Pioneer DJM series and recommend the DJM300 for beginners and practiceing, but I try to discourage it since it has a built in BPM counter for each channel. This sounds good, but you need to learn how to beat match without a BPM counter.

Anyways let me know if this fits into your budget or not & I'll try to help you out some more.

Peace

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Who am I to judge one's perspective? -Common

[djsynrgy]

how long have you had your numark splendor? Just curious.

I have to disagree with everything he told you. Not saying he's wrong, just saying I have a different opinion. Here's why:

I've tried a lot of numark stuff. A LOT. Damn near their full product range. As I stated before, I own a numark mixer. It was great for 6 months, and it still works, kinda, but the faders and eqs bleed badly. I have come to discover through speaking with other DJs that used numarks, that this is a common problem with numark mixers. Their faders just don't last.

As for their turntables, yes, I guess they're fine, but I think on your budget and need for versatility, you might be better served with stantons. Look into the str8-80 or str8-100, or if you can find it, the st-100 (s shaped tone arm instead of straight). You can get a str8-80 for around $200 easy, and I can tell you from personal experience (I own and still abuse one) that they get the job done. It's still not a technics, still not a vestax, but certainly as good if not better than the numarks (except the new tt-x, MAYBE but that thing looks so horribly gimmicky...) and at a cheaper price.

As for your mixer, I still reccomend vestax. I have lots of good valid general reasons for you;
they have premium faders and eqs, and most models have optional rotary volume dials, like world circuit club mixers. very versatile, will work well for both your mixing and your scratching, when you reach that point.
There's also the resell value - Decide you don't wanna DJ after all? You can get almost as much as you paid for it on ebay or classifieds. they're built like fucking tanks. (kinda like technics.) Alot of headz bought a vestax mixer 10 years ago and still use it today.

you could probably find a used vestax pmc170 for about $150. Brand new you could get a pcv175 (new optical pcv fader version of pmc170) for around $300. not bad.

Another option, as long as we're talking about ebay, is to search for technics there.. Sometimes you can get a pair of them for less than $600. Of course, could have same kinda luck with stantons or numarks, etc.

Anyway, these are just my opinions, and I'm just an opinionated asshole like everybody else, so don't just take my word for it. Go to your local shops, even guitar center has DJ shit now, and try different stuff out. I'm sure you have DJ friends, see if they'll help you learn some of the basics on their stuff. Look at the hard data on turntables. Most of the manafacturers websites have technical information on their decks. You can see in black and white what the differences between technics and vestax and numark and gemini and so on are. You just gotta get your own feel to best serve yourself.

[Pitchfork^666]

I can get a Stanton 8-80 (with digital output...if that makes a difference) new for $210. Does that sound like a good deal? That's definately more around my price range. I'll take up your suggestion and go to a local DJ shop&friend and try things out first. That sounds like the smart way to shop :)

I need a new turn table anyway. I just brought the one from my old stereo system from home, and it was powered by the rest of the system. There's a cable on back of the TT that connected to the reciever and powered it (no plug for the wall). Now that I no longer have the reciever, the TT is useless. What a shame!

[Suburbanite]

Big ups to pitchfork for asking the questions that I usually have a hard time extracting from my brain in such detail. An additional question to add: seeing as how I know very few DJ's personally, how hard would it be to learn beatmatching to the point where I am semi-able to mix records at a party or sumting? How long did it take you guys? I myself will be going straight for the 1200's, not a starter kit. Thanks Pitchfork and everyone else.

[chris_chrys]

I recently got a Vestax pdx2000 after 6 years with a Set of Technics. I don't know about the durability/wear and tear etc but they seem to be the dogs bollox so far. I Do a lot of scratching but I also do long mixes and this Deck caters for all perfectly, even better than the Technics. again though, I don't know how durable they are so I can't give an opinion on that. suits me so far anyhoo.

As for the suburbanite, i'd say it'll take you over 10 hours to learn to beat match properly depending on your i.q. and willingness to learn It could take a lot less if you get someone to help you. Here's a good site to learn it all -

http://music.hyperreal.org/ - go to Vinyl handling - very good tutorial, best i've seen yet and i'm a champion mixer:P

[ae5]

i stand by 1200's. i started out on them. but then i knew i wanted to do this too. hell, if you live in new england and want to try some out you can come to my place and try mine out to see if you really want to drop the $1500 on a good setup.

[Pitchfork^666]

Originally posted by ae5:
i stand by 1200's. i started out on them. but then i knew i wanted to do this too. hell, if you live in new england and want to try some out you can come to my place and try mine out to see if you really want to drop the $1500 on a good setup.

That's a mighty nice offer. Too bad I couldn't live in what is almost the furthest place from you in the US. I'm down in San Diego. :( Thanks any way :)

[bigsplendor]

Hey Synrgy,

I've owned some crappy Numark stuff too. I had a 3002x mixer a few months ago and I went through two faders the first month I owned it. So I can understand your view on Numark stuff. However, the SM series is awesome. Don't knock 'em if you haven't tried 'em. They have an optical crossfader that is mounted on ball bearings. It never wears out, ever bleeds, never crackles, & if I blow on the fader it'll move. I have had no problems with my SM-3. I'm not sure why you disagree with EVERYTHING I said, but hey, to each his own.

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Who am I to judge one's perspective? -Common

[electro303]

Had the Stantons-good for home use. Sold em.
Got the 1200's-now I understand.
Timing is everything...

[Hades25]

hey ... my 3002 never gives me problems....the fader is good to go , too......