line6 vetta, no more racks?

[Catalyst]

i was a disbeliever. i never liked modeling amps, until i played a vetta. kind of shocking expirience for me.

i have:

powerbrite pro11
korg dtr2
triaxis
2:90
g-force
and other stuff, so i think i may compare them.

this amp came so close to some of my sounds, it scared me...
maybe the time is come to let go of the rack, and go for an digital amp. this is only the begin i think. kind of cassetes / lp's and cd's

if you can check one out, please do so.



this

[dano22]

Hey Brother,

I have the same feeling.
Like I told you before I'm trying to build a rack
with VHT 2:50, Lexi MPX-G2 and a pre-amp which I couldn't find.
No pre-amp would suit my needs.....

Until I heard the Vetta....WOW.
Amazing, I never liked the cleans of the LINE6 series, but this is a new world. And the heavy sounds are really that good to me.

So maybe I'm also looking to buy a Vetta in future.....

But I find it's very dificult to make a decision.

keep me informed....

[crazydave]

ok ... lets all just calm down and think clearly ok !!!


tubes = tone !

[Mr. Kent]

yeah...everyone needs to calm down here and get back to their senses...digital is digital...

Try cranking one LOUD!! Sure they sound cool in the store at low to moderate volumes...but remember, it is after all is said and done a SOLID-STATE AMP!!! The louder you crank it, the crappier it will sound!

I've played through one at the store before, and yes...it was impressive. Heck, I even cranked it up pretty loud (w/ 200 watts you have plenty of headroom), but c'mon...the "warmth" of tubes just can't be replicated.

Granted, it blows away the Flextone II series, and the ability to run a separate amp model on each side simultaneously is cool...BUT still...solid-state just doesn't push speakers like tube power does...NO comparison!

Okay now...nothing to see here...everyone go about your business!! ;)

[jem777az]

I tried the Vetta combo yesterday at GC for a good hour. While it certainly is the best Line 6 has to offer, I was not impressed considering its hefty pricetag. It sounds way too digital to me, it has too much in there. Too many amp types and effects. I think they tried to cram everything and the kitchen sink inside and it sacrificed the tone.

If you guys really want to get a modeling amp that actually sounds warm and tubelike, try the Hughes and Kettner Zentera. Its $2500, but its like night and day between it and anything else in that category. Hughes and Kettner also has a less expensive version called the Zenamp, which has 2x12" speakers in a 1x12" housing (they staggered the speakers to fit them). The Zenamp is slightly cheaper than the Vetta, and while it doesn't have as many bells and whistles or amp types or effects, etc. I was absolutely impressed how great it sounded. If you closed your eyes, you'd swear you were playing through a tube amp, its that good.

Go to www.zentera.net and see how H&K built the Zentera and Zenamp and tell me they aren't better built than the Line 6 stuff. Its like apples and oranges to compare the two.

[Catalyst]

i guess you have to be open minded. and how can a this amp "have to much". i really dig the digital models on the vetta so i think i will purchace the head, and off course, keep my rack. only the last 20 years there where racks. things evolve. mark my words, in 10 years everybody is playing digital...why are all those company's busy making there own digital "thing"? because they know...

why is "digital" a dirty word around here?

[morris]

Hey Catalyst,

seriously:
Try a vetta on a gig BEFORE you buy it!
I bet after that you will have changed your mind, believe me.

Morris

[Catalyst]

morris,

can you be more specific?
i played one on a loud volume, and it sounded great.

did you play one on a gig?

groetjes.

[morris]

Originally posted by Catalyst
morris,

can you be more specific?
i played one on a loud volume, and it sounded great.

did you play one on a gig?

groetjes.

Yeah, playing alone you will not experience it, but with a band is a totally different story. Transistor doesn't really cut through and the sound has the tendency to get lost on stage, as where tube really stands out on stage. For small venues I used to have similar modeling combo's like the vetta (replitone/Johnson), and they all behave the same. I sold them all and I only use tubes....
Also, I really hate the whole modeling concept. It is just NOT possible to put 20 different amplifiers in one box, no matter how digital it is. Do you really think a plexi or a twin reverb or an AC30 sounds like the way the Vetta produces it?
Never. Also, with these crappy amplifiers everyone sounds the same. Instant sound out of the box. Nahhh not for me guys.

Concluding: they can come in handy for practice or recording some ideas, but it doesn't come even close to the real thing.

Don't shoot me, just my two cents....

[Mr. Kent]

Morris is right...digital sounds good alone...heck, the Vetta even sounds good cranked while it's alone...BUT they just don't "cut through" in a band mix like tube amps... ;)

[bang!]

I suppose you could always use the line outs to a tube power amp. ..

[ScottWMF]

an amp doesn't need to have tubes to have tone. it's a matter of personal preference and convemience. I personally don't have time to worry about the tubes blowing or the amp needing to warm up, so I'm building a digital/solid state rig

[richedie]

I have owned a Marshall JCM 800, Peavey Ultra PLus head and a Mesa dual rectifier for a short period. I now have the Vetta head and love it.

The versatility is unmatched and it sounds great. I can't tell much difference between this and my Mesa when I had it. The big difference is now I can get a great solo tone or whatever else I want. I also feel it sounds much better at higher volumes than low volumes....amazing.

Sure it's not tube but it sounds wonderful and oh so versatile.

I evenplayed witha guy who owns a Mesa single recto and a slew of pedals and after playing through my Vetta at a rehearsal studio....decided to sell his Mesa and get the Vetta.

I have tried modelling amps in the past and this is the first I have played or tested that gave me the thump, cut, and feell of a tube amp....well very close! I don't miss tubes.
It cuts through fine...nice and thick.

I still am going to buy another tube amp......I want both.;)

[richedie]

bump

[El Grinder]

Great thread; I haven't tried any of the line 6 stuff myself and am not sure I want to, but, I'll go a little deeper into explaining. (Bare with me here, I'm gonna be arguing for and against modeling amps. :)

The only experience that I do have with Line 6 is hearing two bands I listen to quite a bit (Fear Factory and Meshuggah) both switch to Line 6 units. Both bands are non-traditional. Both downtune quite a bit (Dino of FF moved to 7 strings on Obsolete, the guitarists of Meshuggah both used 8 string guitars on Nothing.).

So, when you're trying to play non-traditional stuff on non-traditional guitars then Line6 is definitely a non-traditional option.

I actually DO like the clean tones on Fear Factory's Digimortal release, but, IMO the distortion tones were extremely weak compared to the hot-rodded Marshall JCM800 head that Dino had previously used. The high-gain sounds were not as crunchy, defined or distinct in the mix.

However, Meshuggah's Nothing has some great crunch tones and exquisitly transparent clean sounds. Also, with the lowest strings on the 8 string guitars there are some VERY punchy almost-slap-bass sounding tones. I was impressed by the tones on that album.

Someone had mentioned that the more you turn it up, the more the transistors will be likely to clip and lose sound quality. That is true, but, has anyone tried a POD preamp or Vetta head running through a tube power section?

Personally I like my Triaxis & Strategy for tube sounds (clean & high gain) and can get a few good low volume crunch sounds from my old Crate GX combo and DOD Corrosion distortion box (although the cleans through that setup suck completely).

I don't feel the need to get experimental with tones beyond what my processor can do to my current preamp tones yet. I can definitely see where the Line 6 amps can be used for extreme music though. I just fear that day when every other 15 year old kid has a cheapy guitar and a low-end Line 6 and think that they rock. That's the last thing that I want to be hearing...

[TexGtr]

here is my take:

i have no problems with technology. Obviously they (Line 6) are doing somethign right, otherwise there wouldnt be a market for such a device.

Now, as for the vetta sounding weak live.. i am goiong to have to debate you on that topic. A few local bands use them here in Lubbock Tx. at a variety of venues (bars, but all with differing layouts, materials for walls/floor etc..) and honestly, sitting 30 feet back from the stage (no Pa other than vox ).. the sound was DAMN nice.

The band was able to pull off some jazz/Blues in the style of Robben Ford then take off into a cover of mr Brownstone with no problem. The tones were fine as an audience member. When i first saw them load the Vettas on stage i was disappointed and bitched about the very real possibility of "crap tone".. after 10 minutes, they proved me wrong.. quite loudly at that.

dont get me wrong, I LOVE vacuum tube technology in my amps, but you know, those new digital amps are starting to sound pretty sweet as well.

[Cornflakeofdeath]

Originally posted by El Grinder
has anyone tried a POD preamp or Vetta head running through a tube power section?

The basic core of my rig (not including FX or pedals that is) is either a POD Pro into the line inputs on my JC120 or a POD Pro into a Mesa 2:90 into a Marshall 2x12. I bought the 2:90 used about a month or two after I got it and it had some problems (like arching when I would take it off standby. Not good.) it's taken me six months to finally get it working. Long story. It sounds good. Not as good as a good tube amp, but still good and It offers me a great deal of versatility. I tried the Vetta combo and and thought it sounded good, but it can't replace all the stuff in my rack. I'm really curious how the PODxt will sound through Mesa, but I'm holding out for a PODxt Pro or a rackmount Vetta pre or whatever they end up doing.

[jtroska]

This is a true story: About a week ago (or so), I watched a bunch of guys jamming. There was a large PA system amplifying everything... Everything except the Vetta Combo, that is. When they stopped, I had to ask if the Vetta was going through the PA. I mean, it didn't seem to be coming from the PA's speakers, but it was so loud. I didn't think there was any way a little combo could compete with that PA without sounding shrill. Well, the Vetta was, in fact, holding its own with the PA.

Anybody who thinks the Vetta can't cut it through a band just doesn't try to play tastefully. I can't see any reason to push the Vetta anywhere near its limits. The Vetta can be loud enough and it can be TOO loud if you want it to be.

I think the biggest difference between tube and digital at this point is physiological. Sure, it's fun playing through an amp that glows. But I bet most tube snobs couldn't HEAR the difference in a blind-fold test. I have a lot of experience working behind the mixing desk and Vettas SOUND damn good.

[Jaded Faith]

Tube snobs is the right term all the way. I spent the past 15 years on some very high quality tube gear. I also have an engineers background, so I know all the technical arguementsfor tube and solid state.

Bottom Line is the Vetta can sound just as good as the best tube amp and I would challenge many tube purists to a blindfold test. The difference is you need some know-how and patience to find your tone from the Vetta. Granted many prefer the "plug in a handfull of pedals and turn the 7 knobs on a tube head" approach to dialing in tone and thats cool with me too. Just don't knock on Line 6 unless you have spent the quality one-on-one time with one of their amps. You may not find what you want right out of the box, but it is in there.

[skinny]

In 1988 guitarists were talking about how Keyboard sounds were getting so good that by 2000 we would no longer have a need for guitar players. ha Now we talk about how in 10 years no one will need tube amps because the modeling sounds are getting so good.
There will never be a replacement for guitarists or tube amps as long as people like the sound of them.

[chrisbechtel]

As a player that has been on both sides of this debate I can see both sides. What I experienced was what I liked to call "Line 6 Blindness". I went from a 2 channel tube head and rack of effects with cab to a Line 6 rig and I was absolutely in love. I had mor sounds then I could ever use and it was so simple and tweakable and lovable. I played that way for about two years. Man, I preached the gospel of Line 6. I told everybody I knew how great they were and sounded like a walking Line 6 ad.

And then on a road trip to a metro area my and my boys stopped into one of those "Guitar Chain" stores to peek around. So out of boredom I picked up a guitar and plugged right in to the closest amp I could find to kill some time. It happened to be a Dual Recto. Strangely enough, this was the very head I had played pre Line 6.

Now you should know that for the first six months of going modeled I used like 36 amp tones a night. Playing in a cover band I pretty much played every song with its respective tone. I was crazy with the Vox for this and Plexi for that. The next 6 months I started really developing my favorite amps models and getting into them. The last year I pretty much copped a Mesa rig in my Line 6. I had several clean tones and then all my rhythm and lead tones were based on the varying Mesa models.

Anyway, here I am playing with this beautiful Mesa. And something happened. I started noticing things that I had ignored for a long time. The most important thing I heard was that sweet thing that all tube snobs love. I noticed dynamics that I had always admitted the Line 6 lacked. And mmmmm Rectifier lag. Everyhing sounded so alive. Yeah, its a lot easier to Line 6.

What I realized was that I was having so much fun tweaking and having so many choices that I overlooked the little things about modeling that I didn't like. Now I'll admit I haven't owned a Vetta and I haven't sat down with one long enough to really qualify an opinion. So I'm sure the advances in tech are astounding but I'm back with my rack and head and quite happy. I do miss the floorboard though.

I guess to sum up my rant I think which ever route you choose there are downsides and although tube vs modeled have totally different issues I think it's more about what you can ignore.:D

[richedie]

Originally posted by chrisbechtel
As a player that has been on both sides of this debate I can see both sides. What I experienced was what I liked to call "Line 6 Blindness". I went from a 2 channel tube head and rack of effects with cab to a Line 6 rig and I was absolutely in love. I had mor sounds then I could ever use and it was so simple and tweakable and lovable. I played that way for about two years. Man, I preached the gospel of Line 6. I told everybody I knew how great they were and sounded like a walking Line 6 ad.

And then on a road trip to a metro area my and my boys stopped into one of those "Guitar Chain" stores to peek around. So out of boredom I picked up a guitar and plugged right in to the closest amp I could find to kill some time. It happened to be a Dual Recto. Strangely enough, this was the very head I had played pre Line 6.

Now you should know that for the first six months of going modeled I used like 36 amp tones a night. Playing in a cover band I pretty much played every song with its respective tone. I was crazy with the Vox for this and Plexi for that. The next 6 months I started really developing my favorite amps models and getting into them. The last year I pretty much copped a Mesa rig in my Line 6. I had several clean tones and then all my rhythm and lead tones were based on the varying Mesa models.

Anyway, here I am playing with this beautiful Mesa. And something happened. I started noticing things that I had ignored for a long time. The most important thing I heard was that sweet thing that all tube snobs love. I noticed dynamics that I had always admitted the Line 6 lacked. And mmmmm Rectifier lag. Everyhing sounded so alive. Yeah, its a lot easier to Line 6.

What I realized was that I was having so much fun tweaking and having so many choices that I overlooked the little things about modeling that I didn't like. Now I'll admit I haven't owned a Vetta and I haven't sat down with one long enough to really qualify an opinion. So I'm sure the advances in tech are astounding but I'm back with my rack and head and quite happy. I do miss the floorboard though.

I guess to sum up my rant I think which ever route you choose there are downsides and although tube vs modeled have totally different issues I think it's more about what you can ignore.:D

I also came from a Mesa DR head and loved it but not as much as the Vetta with the latest software. I was not the biggest fan of the vetta with the first version of the software but this latest upgrade has made me a Line 6 believer and I still absolutely love the versatility and the ease of set-up. Not to mention I get great compliments on tone and this is a fun amp to play. Plus, the tone can be had a a variety of volume levels and something more managable in small clubs. This stuff gets better all the time.

I wouldn't mind stoping in a few stores to give a few tube amps a whirl but we'll see.

[tonedoctor1]

I have a PODxt and it`s a great little device for what it is. I use it for project studio dates and certain rehearsals and to get song ideas down. I would possibly even use it on a live date but only if it was like a couple of songs and almost no setup time. Under these conditions it wouldn`t be worth setting up either of my other two rigs.

I have to say though I`ve played thru essentially all the digital stuff out there and none of it can do what my big rig can. The vetta is ok and actually the vtwin is not bad and neither is the vox modeling amp.

I don`t know what kind of tube rigs and effects some of you are playing through but if a digital modeling amp nails your sound then maybe something is not quite right with your tube rig and it needs some further attention. Many people have decent gear but don`t use a mixer or switching system or interfaces, or buffers or any of the other things that are necessary to make the most of the core gear they are using. This is a downfall in lot`s of conventional rigs, and rack systems. If you run a tube preamp section straight thru a digital effects processor without a mixer then you may as well have a digital modeler.
Digital just is not there yet.....................


Look at recording for instance;
I`ve done all sorts of sessions and digital is big but look how many people are starting to go back to analog at least at various points in the signal chain. Look how digital has completely jumpstarted the tube industry again. Everyone`s wanting tube front end to warm up digital recording gear.
Look how plugin`s took off and are still big but how the really serious cats are still saying that you still can`t beat the power of really serious outboard gear.
This is not just me talking. This info is out there all over the net.

Tubes are really even more critical in an electric guitar application.

Anyone considering giving up tubes for digital with respect to guitar should think long and hard before doing so.
If you see the digital stuff as just another tool to get certain jobs done then more power to you. That`s how I look at it.


Tom


btw, here`s my main rig gear list:

Furman pl plus
CAE 3+ SE preamp(suhr modded)
Vht 2502 poweramp
TC M2000 (reverb)
2 TC Dtwo`s (stereo delays)
2 TC scf`s (stereo chorus)
Eventide H3000 (pitch)
CAD cgm2 (compressor)
Switchblade GL (switching and mixing)
GCX (pedal switcher)
Axess CFX-4 (preamp switching)
DMC system mix+ (interface, and VCA)
3 Custom built interface boxes (used for interconnects between two a 12 space and a 10 space rack and to speaker cabs)
The following pedals are mounted on a sliding pedal tray with a Voodoo labs PP2
Voodoo labs;
Analog chorus (leslie effect)
Tremolo
microvibe
sparkle drive (keeley modded)
Boss blues driver (keeley modded)
Arion sch-1 (alternative chorus sound)

Pedalboard;

DMC GCP
CAE modded vox wah
Axess BS-2 buffer/splitter
Voodoo labs PP2
Boss tu12H
Boss 300L vol/exp pedal (used to control VCA in mix+ via midi)
Custom tap tempo footswitch (tempo for 2 Dtwo`s)

This system runs into 2 Rivera v30 loaded 4-12`s.

[Flat Fifth Fury]

For some players the Vetta is everything that they could ever want. For others it's a joke. Personally I love the idea of the modeling amps but the reality doesn't work for me at all. That's me and you milage may, will!, vary.

I played with the Vetta last year for my Guitarmageddon performance and quickly learned that it doesn't sound right or feel right and it's very hard to tweek. I spent two hours trying to dial in one, yes one, solo tone and it never got "right". If I was to be given a Plexi with an effects loop, good sounding 4x12 cab, a Tube Screamer, and a modulating digital delay I could have a killer tone in about 15 minutes tops. With the Vetta it was many variations of "Eeehhhh ... nope! (Twist-fiddle-twist-poke-twist) Hmmm ... nope!"

As Morris said it does a lot but it has no character and it's character that many guitarists are after. I'd love to ditch my 10 space rack of processing for my 1/2 stack and just use something like the Vetta but it's not going to happen for quite some time. But then that's me.

[Imzadimark2004]

I played with another guitarist for about six month who used a line 6 (Not sure what model, but it was top of the line). Playing side by side at soundcheck with no band, his amp smoked. As soon as we started playing together(with the band) my Rivera ate his lunch..........................bad. Great sounding amp by itself but just couldn't cut it in a band situation.
My 2 cents.
:)

[miker2c]

I have a friend who uses a line 6 rackmount pod. Yes, he has an endorsement from them, but I have heard him play literally hundreds of times, and his rig sounds fantastic--better than the bands that preceded him with REAL dual rectos!

I believe that, since they are a modern metal band, that possibly, like some of you have pointed out, the digital stuff lacks dynamics. They pretty much play at one volume.

Of course, now he has a Diezel endorsement, but the POD is still in his rack and he uses it for certain effects. It is also his backup if the Diezel croaks, as it has once or twice.

Yes, his sound is exquisite with the Diezel, but the POD still sounded great compared to everything else out there that other bands had, from vintage Marshalls, to Mesa's, etc. Not necessarily better sounding, but it held it's own.

I am a tube guy, and I won't by one of those modeling amps, unless it is just for direct recording. But, that is just because that is my preference, not because I don't think they sound good!

Mike

[richedie]

The latest software in the new vetta II and the HD 147 smoke even in live situations. I gig with the Vetta head and I also have friends who gig with the Vetta. We all come from ybe gear and all get killer live tones. I have played many shows where I was told the vetta had the best tone of the night. these comments from the crown and other guitarists always blows me away because I had the hardest time leaving my tube heads behind.

The lack of cut is a tired old argument.

Mike, are you referring to Noosphere?? I loved his tone with the Pod Pro into the Mesa power amp.

[miker2c]

Originally posted by richedie
The latest software in the new vetta II and the HD 147 smoke even in live situations. I gig with the Vetta head and I also have friends who gig with the Vetta. We all come from ybe gear and all get killer live tones. I have played many shows where I was told the vetta had the best tone of the night. these comments from the crown and other guitarists always blows me away because I had the hardest time leaving my tube heads behind.

The lack of cut is a tired old argument.

Mike, are you referring to Noosphere?? I loved his tone with the Pod Pro into the Mesa power amp.

You are correct! Kevin is a very good friend of mine! I'm going to see them tonight down at the Hard Rock in Philly! They are going to tear that place apart!

Mike

[richedie]

they are playing the Hard Rock? I would love to play that place! I wish I could go tonight but I have to watch the baby.:D

anyway, i am in a local band called Paper Soul and hope to also start playing the Philly clubs....so far we've been a regular at places like the Nail and other suburban clubs but it's time to hit Philly.

Hey, is he using the Herbert head?

[miker2c]

Originally posted by richedie
they are playing the Hard Rock? I would love to play that place! I wish I could go tonight but I have to watch the baby.:D

anyway, i am in a local band called Paper Soul and hope to also start playing the Philly clubs....so far we've been a regular at places like the Nail and other suburban clubs but it's time to hit Philly.

Hey, is he using the Herbert head?

That's cool. The Nail is one of my favorite places!! And, that's where my band will be starting out, if I can ever find the musicians that I need. We do original prog rock/metal stuff, and no one seem to be interested in playing it:mad: or maybe just aren't up to playing it!:)

Kevin is using the stereo VH4, primarily the 1st and 3rd channels. He runs his effected sound through a Line 6 2X12 and his dry sound through a Diezel 4X12, I think.

Mike

[Elric]

Myself and several others have been begging L6 to make a fuggin' Vetta Rack Preamp. The Vetta just sooooo WANTs to be rack mounted. Then you could have a the current ultimate modeller and still have a rack. :cool:

For those who are curious, the XT "Pro" Pre blows dog compared to the Vetta, btw.

[somata]

i made the switch from modeling (johnson millenium head) to tube/rack about a year ago...

and really, i did it a bit on a whim, after lurking around here for awhile and doing some research, my curiousity in a new rig was peaked, and i picked up my access-just by chance really(that's Terri's "bad" influence for you)--i was mostly happy with my millenium (i was wanting a bit more gain out of it). i then proceeded to put together my rack..picking up a mesa 50/50, buying a g-major, getting the ground control version one, upgrading to the gc pro this past fall, adding a wah and expression pedals, culminating in trading up to the h&k vs250 a few weeks ago (thanks gtrboy01!). and really all i've been doing is trying to get the flexibility of the millenium in a rack set-up...i've pretty much accomplished that, and now i have a killer all tube set-up...but i spent a ton of money and time getting it all together. don't get me wrong, i love my current set-up and its definitely been the right choice for me, but modelers definitely make it easier...the sounds may not be 100% accurate, but the interface and sounds are designed in such a way that they're really user friendly and useable (which lets face it, we're in this forum because we get a sick masochistic glee from set-ups that aren't exactly user friendly and require a degree of tweaking and effort akin to performing a jedi mind trick while chewing gum and riding a bicycle backwards to stephen hawking's house :D :D :D :D ).

as for the volume debate, it really depends on the amp and how it's set-up, i had no problem keeping up with a super loud grind drummer and the other guitar player's marshall tsl with the millenium (250w when run in stereo into a 4ohm per side stereo cab). the biggest difference is in dynamics, the ability to roll the volume back and clean up the sound with the tube set-up was a revelation to me. you can of course approximate it with expression pedal functions on a modeling amp, but its not really the same. and to me the accuracy of the modeling was always beside the point. i didn't expect the millenium to nail all the tones that it purported to-nor did i care if it did. i always saw it as merely offering a huge range of sounds, that would let me dial in my own sounds.

so i sold the millenium last summer, and now i kind of regret it. it would have been a good backup amp, and i actually preferred it for my 7 string. i felt that the tightness and lack of sag that solid state gives, really worked well with that low b...

and a millenium preamp would have been killer...seeing as how the fx were essentially the digitech 2120, it should have been easy...oh well...

[ocnor]

somata
selling the "Junkson Millenium" was a good move. Those amps sound very sterille. As for the FX the 2120 kicks its ass because it has 2 S-Discs instead of 1 .

Whether an amp can model a specific amp means nothing to me. The bottom line is that it sounds good or it doesn't. I can see the attraction of modeling amps due to the ease of use and lack of maintenance. Besides being way overpriced the Line6 gear " To my ears" doesn't sound any better than a Gorrilla or Marshall Valvestate. As for amp modelling the Behinger V-amp smokes anything Line6 has but it still falls short of a tube preamp and power amp rig.

[superpoo]

Originally posted by El Grinder


So, when you're trying to play non-traditional stuff on non-traditional guitars then Line6 is definitely a non-traditional option.



:D

[Shask]

I kinda agree with a post above, and that is that It kinda makes you just sound "generic".

I love the Digital stuff, and think it sounds good, but say for recording, If I mic an amp or something, I can get a very orginal, unique tone.

If I use my POD, Its just a kind of generic "Ive heard it everywhere else" Tone.

Thats my main real complaint about them.

[DaveT]

I come from using a Pod Pro and before that a two channel Marshall. I missed the dynamics (loss of a singing note), feedback-controlled (if you know what I mean), and warmth of tubes (what I would call the "kiss" of the tube). I accepted the digital for the convenience and ease. To achieve a close second, I would sometimes use a tube power amp with the pod, but basically used the Pod into the PA. It worked and easy after using the deep editing with a computer attached. I agree with the comments "generic" sound and I received positive comments on tone when playing out. I felt like it no big deal, it's digital modeling that's what it's suppose to do. Vetta II may currently be different, but Line6 itself has become as snobbish as it says of people who like tubes. It is a company vs. independent musician's opinions looking for true tones, the source. Why did I go back to tubes? Simple, we were listening to our tracks recorded in the studio ("generic" yes, absolutely), but as we listened to the tracks at a very slow speeds the tone or sound that came together out of static (I mean static), especially dirty tones. To visualize it, it's like a digital picture that you sometimes see on TV when the signal is in jeopardy of being lost. Hence, above the term "kiss" of the tube even with dirty tracks. We then compared some clean tracks with a real fender twin and even the JMP-1, which was laying around at the time then a Mesa Quad. Don't start because I know Line6 modeled the JMP-1 on a Vetta. Picky, yes. It's all what you want to deal with and accept. I got used to having a variety of tones with the Pod, a Marshall, a Mesa, and a Fender. So, my alternative was going rack with multiple preamps and it is just as easy to plug in except for a 6 space and 2 space instead of 4 space. So, here I am and much happier. Good luck to the modeling, but I do like the true tone generator that those companies copy. Digital modeling also requires a good electrical current as a computer does, hence I always use a AR 1215 with modeling, because the Pod has gone south as far as tone in bad wiring environments especially where a lot of current is used for house lighting (my first negative digital experience, but that's another story). Long live the "kiss".


Just my $.02 cents.

[richedie]

What do you guys think of these tones?

www.jadedfaith.com (http://www.jadedfaith.com)

I think they sound great.

[richedie]

what do you guys think of these tone? Check their website and listen to the MP3s if you have time...


Jaded Faith (http://www.jadedfaith.com)

[KarmicApexIntel]

Ok, I have owned a Vetta HD for 2 years now almost, and here's the thing that people have to know about making it sound great at any volume....First of all, NO ONE I know who owns a Vetta uses the factory preset tone-patches as-is; they all find one that's somewhat close, and then alter it to suit their own tastes....If you create a patch at a low volume that sounds great at a low volume, it will be likely that it will sound like crap at a higher volume! If you want a great-sounding patch at high volume with a Vetta, you have to create a patch AT THE INTENDED VOLUME YOU WANT IT TO SOUND GOOD AT! It takes a little bit of tweaking the various (!) choices of amp models, cabinet models, effects models and FX chain, mic models, etc etc., to get it sounding the way you want it to. I always make sure that a high volume patch I create always has a volume pedal at the beginning of the FX chain, because when I turn it down THAT way, it seems to still sound great at the lower volumes I have altered using the floorboard's volume pedal; don't know why that is, but if it ain't broke, don't try and fix it, I always say! There are few pro-guitarists out there touring using Vettas as of yet, but given some time, we'll hear some reviews from the road, I am sure. Micheal Romeo from Symphony X now tours using a Vetta as his primary amp now, so I will be curious to hear what he has to say on the amp's reliability on the road.....

[richedie]

I love my Vetta.

I gave the link above because that guy uses the Vetta for gigs and his live tone is inspiring. Those tracks were also recorded using an earlier software version of the vetta.

The guitarsist of Tantric tours with the Vetta II head also.

[AlainC]

I was invited to play with a band a few months ago. As I was just trying out, I asked wether I could just hook up my POD (the 2.0) to a P.A. and jam, instead of bringing my rack. No problem. When I got there, they were looking at me like "WTF, he's gonna play this funny shaped thing". When I hooked it up, total disbelief.That funny thing blew them away. When we started jamming, my POD just didn't come out at all. I had to do the leads, so I had to be heard, I jsut couldn't cut trough,... problems.... I now brought my rack... total difference. I'm clearly heard, clear sound. I'll use the POD for any recording or home recording, but live: rack! I'm back to the rack ;)

[KarmicApexIntel]

Originally posted by richedie
I love my Vetta.

I gave the link above because that guy uses the Vetta for gigs and his live tone is inspiring. Those tracks were also recorded using an earlier software version of the vetta.

The guitarsist of Incubus tours with the Vetta II head also.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Heyyyy Richie, I know you from AZ's forum!:D Yeah, Jaded's definitely a good example of a guitarist who gigs with a Vetta on a weekly basis, and has been quite happy with it, and not only that, gets a very impressive live sound from what I have heard, as well...Didn't know the Incubus guitarist tours with a Vetta now too; cool!

[richedie]

Originally posted by KarmicApexIntel

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Heyyyy Richie, I know you from AZ's forum!:D Yeah, Jaded's definitely a good example of a guitarist who gigs with a Vetta on a weekly basis, and has been quite happy with it, and not only that, gets a very impressive live sound from what I have heard, as well...Didn't know the Incubus guitarist tours with a Vetta now too; cool!

Yes, I have seen Rob live and with Mesas and Marshalls on stage. One of the guys with the Marshall is now looking into the Vetta because he was so blown away by the many awesome tones Rob had on that night. He really did sound huge and thick. No issues hearing him. The cut issue has to die.:D

Yes, both guitarists of Tantric (not Incubus - sorry) use Line 6. The lead guitarist uses the Vetta II head and cab. I think it is the singer or rhythm guitarists??? who runs the HD 147 and cab. I didn't see them live so I can't say.

I know Michael Romeo of Symphony X uses a Vetta and rips.

[Flat Fifth Fury]

Romeo uses the Vetta live but real amps in the studio. "The Odyssey" was done with an Engl Powerball. I saw them twice on their last tour and was front row infront of Michael both times. He was running a single Vetta head and two old metal grill Mesa cabs. He sounded pretty much like the album but not quite. He also had his old rack sitting next to the Vetta as a backup. It was a POD Pro with a Rocktron Intellifex and Mesa 50/50 poweramp. For the "V" tour he used a dual channel recto but still had the POD Pro backup rig.

[Terrorizer]

No no my friend.
In 20 years I wont be playing digital.:rolleyes:
:rolleyes:
:rolleyes: :rolleyes:
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
:rolleyes: :rolleyes:
:rolleyes:

[chrisaxeman]

Originally posted by somata
i made the switch from modeling (johnson millenium head) to tube/rack about a year ago...

and really, i did it a bit on a whim, after lurking around here for awhile and doing some research, my curiousity in a new rig was peaked, and i picked up my access-just by chance really(that's Terri's "bad" influence for you)--i was mostly happy with my millenium (i was wanting a bit more gain out of it). i then proceeded to put together my rack..picking up a mesa 50/50, buying a g-major, getting the ground control version one, upgrading to the gc pro this past fall, adding a wah and expression pedals, culminating in trading up to the h&k vs250 a few weeks ago (thanks gtrboy01!). and really all i've been doing is trying to get the flexibility of the millenium in a rack set-up...i've pretty much accomplished that, and now i have a killer all tube set-up...but i spent a ton of money and time getting it all together. don't get me wrong, i love my current set-up and its definitely been the right choice for me, but modelers definitely make it easier...the sounds may not be 100% accurate, but the interface and sounds are designed in such a way that they're really user friendly and useable (which lets face it, we're in this forum because we get a sick masochistic glee from set-ups that aren't exactly user friendly and require a degree of tweaking and effort akin to performing a jedi mind trick while chewing gum and riding a bicycle backwards to stephen hawking's house :D :D :D :D ).

as for the volume debate, it really depends on the amp and how it's set-up, i had no problem keeping up with a super loud grind drummer and the other guitar player's marshall tsl with the millenium (250w when run in stereo into a 4ohm per side stereo cab). the biggest difference is in dynamics, the ability to roll the volume back and clean up the sound with the tube set-up was a revelation to me. you can of course approximate it with expression pedal functions on a modeling amp, but its not really the same. and to me the accuracy of the modeling was always beside the point. i didn't expect the millenium to nail all the tones that it purported to-nor did i care if it did. i always saw it as merely offering a huge range of sounds, that would let me dial in my own sounds.

so i sold the millenium last summer, and now i kind of regret it. it would have been a good backup amp, and i actually preferred it for my 7 string. i felt that the tightness and lack of sag that solid state gives, really worked well with that low b...

and a millenium preamp would have been killer...seeing as how the fx were essentially the digitech 2120, it should have been easy...oh well...

Did similar.

I was for years a MV head and cord guy.I then started writing and recording tunes with this guy,and bought a J-Station so as to help speed up the recording process and get a bunch of different tones and FX.Straight up the flexability,easy interface and setup grab you with modelling units........ :)

When we started to reherse other players,once I tried using the J-Station,it became obvious pretty quickly that it lacked in one area-tone!Sraight back to the valves!

I was addicted to the flexbilty and interface,but it is obvious that you can select the (real)gear you want and control it easily if your willing to spend the money........for the time being anyway is a better tone option than digital,but I accept it is only a matter of time that we'll be all playing digi-amps.

Guitarists are pretty slow at accepting new tech,but one look at how much software based gear has replaced stand alone rack gear in the studio is a big advertisement that change is on its way!

$0.02

Chris...........

[Travelin' Dude]

Originally posted by jem777az
I tried the Vetta combo yesterday at GC for a good hour. While it certainly is the best Line 6 has to offer, I was not impressed considering its hefty pricetag. It sounds way too digital to me, it has too much in there. Too many amp types and effects. I think they tried to cram everything and the kitchen sink inside and it sacrificed the tone.

If you guys really want to get a modeling amp that actually sounds warm and tubelike, try the Hughes and Kettner Zentera. Its $2500, but its like night and day between it and anything else in that category. Hughes and Kettner also has a less expensive version called the Zenamp, which has 2x12" speakers in a 1x12" housing (they staggered the speakers to fit them). The Zenamp is slightly cheaper than the Vetta, and while it doesn't have as many bells and whistles or amp types or effects, etc. I was absolutely impressed how great it sounded. If you closed your eyes, you'd swear you were playing through a tube amp, its that good.

Go to www.zentera.net and see how H&K built the Zentera and Zenamp and tell me they aren't better built than the Line 6 stuff. Its like apples and oranges to compare the two.

I'm not gonna knock the Vetta, but I preferred the "feel" of the Zentera overall, when I was shopping for a modeler two years ago. So I nagged the US rep for H&K for the better part of 9 months, waiting for the Zentera head version to be released in the US. I was lucky to be the first to get the Zen head in the States, as a "demo" model... previous owner was allegedy Alex Lifeson (his management got 2 new ones, with the updated software, vers. 2.03, for the Vapor Trails tour).

All in all, it's a fantastic modeler. I recently aquired a Savage 120 head as well, which I think is definitely more "organic" and does an amazing job of getting great cleans on Channel 1, as well as the best Marshally OD I've heard on a tube amp at bedroom volumes, but it's still a tube amp... it needs to breathe a bit, and be opened up to really sing. This is why I won't be ditching the Zentera; 95% of my playing is at bedroom volumes, and you can't crank the Savage in a luxury apartment complex, without getting evicted.

All that being said, the Zentera will never be mistaken for a great tube amp, to a purist. Yes, it does a great job, especially with some of the higher-gain stuff, and even the hot-rodded AC-30 models, but it's no Matchless or blackface Twin. Matter of fact, I find the clean models (ie Twin or lo-gain Tweed) somewhat lackluster, regardless of how you set up your patches, at any volume.

I won't be ditching the Zentera any time soon, but this is my opinion of it. It's great, but not likely to fool anyone with an ear, that it's a perfect (or near-perfect) replica of the amps it's attempting to model. FWIW, I still enjoy playing it a lot more than my Triaxis/2:90 setup, which has been in storage for over 2 years now. ;)

--T.D.

[PorridgeOfHate]

O.K., I'm throwing down the gaunlet to those tube snobs.

Go to this site: http://www.digidesign.com/digizine/archive/digizine_may04/guitartools/#

And take the quiz, see if you can tell the difference between the "real" amps and the PODs & software plugins.

Bet you can't!