Randall RM4 or Rocktron VP4?

[Rocinante]

I've decided I'm going to bite the bullet and get one or the other of these instead of purchasing a second-rate preamp I'll only get dissatisfied with later. (I've lately considered MP-1, JMP-1, GT Trio, and a bunch of other preamps, but I've drawn a blank with all of them.)

Both of these were co-designed by Bruce Egnater, but which one would be a better buy?

Randall upsides: Stereo FX loop; more versatile; I've heard what it can do.
Randall downsides: Hi-gain modules sound less than stellar; impossible to sell s/h modules in UK.

Rocktron upsides: Cheaper.
Rocktron downsides: No FX loop; I haven't heard it.

Given that the price difference won't be that great, I am mostly of the opinion that I should stick with what I know best, which is the Randall. However, by all accounts the VP4 should carry similar voicings to the Top Boost/SL+ modules, given that they share the same designer, plus the VP4's higher-gain tones might actually sound better. The reviews of the Vendetta head are A+++.

Any views?

[buckwheat]

Egnater M4:D

[Tom Manning]

Have you really tried out all the alternatives?

What about a Mesa Quad? If you're anywhere near either Guildford or Stafford let me know and you could check out mine.

[Rocinante]

Originally posted by buckwheat
Egnater M4:D Too expensive.

[Rocinante]

Originally posted by Tom Manning
Have you really tried out all the alternatives?

What about a Mesa Quad? If you're anywhere near either Guildford or Stafford let me know and you could check out mine. Hi Tom. That's very kind, although I'm in Cambridgeshire and don't presently have any wheels. Didn't you recently put your Quad on eBay with a Mesa power amp?

[Tom Manning]

Originally posted by Rocinante
Hi Tom. That's very kind, although I'm in Cambridgeshire and don't presently have any wheels. Didn't you recently put your Quad on eBay with a Mesa power amp?

No, that wasn't me.

[Rocinante]

It looks like the decision's been made for me. I can't find a US dealer who'll send me a Randall, as the shipping makes it prohibitive.

I can get hold of a VP4, but the total cost inc. shipping, import duty and VAT comes to about £830! :eek:
Would you guys ever consider spending this much money on gear you'd never heard?

What are the alternatives? MP-1 (very vanilla sounding to me), JMP-1 (doesn't seem to have much going for it), various Mesas (might be worth a shot, but also very expensive for a second-choice), GT Trio (been there), or various digital preamps (I really don't want to go there).

This amp search is getting really tedious and frustrating.

[miker2c]

Originally posted by Rocinante
It looks like the decision's been made for me. I can't find a US dealer who'll send me a Randall, as the shipping makes it prohibitive.

I can get hold of a VP4, but the total cost inc. shipping, import duty and VAT comes to about £830! :eek:
Would you guys ever consider spending this much money on gear you'd never heard?

What are the alternatives? MP-1 (very vanilla sounding to me), JMP-1 (doesn't seem to have much going for it), various Mesas (might be worth a shot, but also very expensive for a second-choice), GT Trio (been there), or various digital preamps (I really don't want to go there).

This amp search is getting really tedious and frustrating.

I would recommend the Engl E530. They are relatively inexpensive and have an incredible sound quality. They run the range of really nice cleans to nearly as much distortion as you could want. Engl calls it four channels, but it is really two channels--clean and distortion--with a gain boost for each channel. There is also a contour or mid-boost on the gain channel for another type of sound. And the gain channel splits the mid voicing into a high mid and low mid control for incredible versatility.

Mike

[Rocinante]

Originally posted by miker2c


I would recommend the Engl E530. They are relatively inexpensive and have an incredible sound quality. They run the range of really nice cleans to nearly as much distortion as you could want. Engl calls it four channels, but it is really two channels--clean and distortion--with a gain boost for each channel. There is also a contour or mid-boost on the gain channel for another type of sound. And the gain channel splits the mid voicing into a high mid and low mid control for incredible versatility.

Mike Hmm. How would you describe the sound compared to the various heads? I really don't care for the 'hi-fi' cleans on those amps, and I haven't yet heard a convincing classic rock sound in anybody's clips. I played with a Screamer combo and a Thunder head, and personally I found them on the brittle side. But thanks for the suggestion. I'll look out for one, and maybe I'll get a chance to try it. I must say I like the idea of a 2-band mid control.

[miker2c]

Originally posted by Rocinante
Hmm. How would you describe the sound compared to the various heads? I really don't care for the 'hi-fi' cleans on those amps, and I haven't yet heard a convincing classic rock sound in anybody's clips. I played with a Screamer combo and a Thunder head, and personally I found them on the brittle side. But thanks for the suggestion. I'll look out for one, and maybe I'll get a chance to try it. I must say I like the idea of a 2-band mid control.

I find with mine that as I boost the upper mid control the sound become more modern, but if I am more conservative on the upper mid and boost the low mid, it gives a more classic rock/vintage-type sound.

As for the cleans, I love them! I played around with the eq on the clean channel one day and found that as I boosted the mid control to around 12:00 the sound out of my solid body electic became so acoustic sounding it was unbelievable! That was with the inner coils of my hums in parallel--like John Petrucci's middle position.

I also think that a good tube power amp is integral--although, I must say that I have never run mine through a SS poweramp. I run mine through a Mesa 20/20--it doesn't have the best bottom end, but it isn't bad at all, either. I am thinking of going to a VHT 2-50-2 power amp, not for any extra power (the 20/20 is plenty LOUD!), but just to see what EL 34's do to the sound. But, then again, I have so much on my list of "need to buy's" that the power amp won't come soon, since I am very happy with the 20/20 anyway.

If you get a chance to try one out, make sure that you have a good bit of time. It is not a difficult unit to dial in, but the eq's work a little differently than I was used to. On the gain channel, the actual amount of gain is more in the mid controls than the gain control! It doesn't sound like you are a scooped mid kind of guy, but I did the mid scoop thing when I first plugged mine in--put both the low and high mid controls down around 7-8:00, the bass to 12:00 and the treble to 3:00, and I put the gain control at 3:00. I was a little shocked that there was very little distortion! As I raised the mid controls, the distortion came on like gang busters!!

Good luck with your search!

Mike

[Rocinante]

Well, I found some old clips of the Engl 530 preamp, and after listening to them again I would say that the clean and heavy ends of the spectrum are damn good in a modern kind of way. However, I didn't care for what I heard of the slightly crunchy tones. I guess I prefer a browner sound in that gain range, but it wouldn't be impossible to fix that with an EQ pedal.

You're right about my not being a scooped-mids guy, Mike! Actually, I did cut my teeth on thrash (amongst other things) and I do want a preamp that can do metal, but these days I vastly prefer the classic rock sound. As regards using the mids to get distortion, I used a mid-boost for years to get my distortion before I bought an SD-1, so I'm very familiar with what you describe. I am surprised that boosting the upper mids on the 530 produces a more modern voicing -- that's the opposite of what I would expect!

Anyhow, I'll definitely look out for one on eBay, as it has all the other features I'm looking for. If I can get one for a good price, it'll be well worth spending some time experimenting with. Thanks a lot for the suggestion!

[Tom Manning]

See if you can get any mid-gain soundclips of the Mesa Quad or (failing that) a Mark II, III or IV Boogie. The Quad will nail those tones but I'm not sure if that's quite what you're looking for. If you can try out a Mark IV go for it and see if you like it.

The Quad can be got for around £400 depending on how lucky you get. Mine was about £450 shipped from France is in really nice condition.

[Rocinante]

Originally posted by Tom Manning
See if you can get any mid-gain soundclips of the Mesa Quad or (failing that) a Mark II, III or IV Boogie. The Quad will nail those tones but I'm not sure if that's quite what you're looking for. If you can try out a Mark IV go for it and see if you like it.

The Quad can be got for around £400 depending on how lucky you get. Mine was about £450 shipped from France is in really nice condition. Are the Mark series amps available as rack preamps? I used to play a Mark IV combo. At the time I didn't know what to do with all the knobs, and the small 1x12 package probably didn't help to give me an accurate impression of what they can do.

I have been doing eBay searches for Mesa. The trouble is, unless I've had a chance to hear an amp, there's a limit to what I'm prepared to pay for it. £450 is a lot of money to gamble. (But hell, so is £830!)

Hey Tom, any chance of you posting some clips of your Quad? :D

[PaulA]

Hi

How about a VHT GP3? Three channels and lots of extras. You could hear one at Trevor Durrants in Colchester or Chandler's in Kew, and then save some money and buy mine! Less than £830 for sure!!

Why am I selling? I play a church gig, common sense says take a Fender Deluxe type combo and a chorus pedal.

Best Wishes

Paul A

[Tom Manning]

Originally posted by Rocinante
Are the Mark series amps available as rack preamps? I used to play a Mark IV combo. At the time I didn't know what to do with all the knobs, and the small 1x12 package probably didn't help to give me an accurate impression of what they can do.

I have been doing eBay searches for Mesa. The trouble is, unless I've had a chance to hear an amp, there's a limit to what I'm prepared to pay for it. £450 is a lot of money to gamble. (But hell, so is £830!)

Hey Tom, any chance of you posting some clips of your Quad? :D

Actually the Quad and the Studio really are the Mark series preamps. The Studio is based on the MarkII and the Quad is based on the MarkIIC (channel 1) and the Mark III (channel 2).

The only samples I have are these two clips from a Dream Theater tribute project I played on. Unfortunately it's my takes over the original song so it isn't the best to listen to but it's something at least.

To Live Forever Solo (http://www.digitalsoundplanet.com/Members/000110328_000003581_000000664.mp3)

To Live Forever Sample (http://www.digitalsoundplanet.com/Members/000110328_000003581_000000665.mp3)

[Rocinante]

Originally posted by Tom Manning
The only samples I have are these two clips from a Dream Theater tribute project I played on. Unfortunately it's my takes over the original song so it isn't the best to listen to but it's something at least. Thanks for those. Nice, clear recordings, and the tone's really happening. -- I'll have to keep an eye out for another Quad.

[Rocinante]

Originally posted by PaulA
How about a VHT GP3? Three channels and lots of extras. You could hear one at Trevor Durrants in Colchester or Chandler's in Kew, and then save some money and buy mine! Less than £830 for sure!! I've heard the GP3, and I felt it was voiced primarily for metal. Can it do classic rock IYO?

[Tom Manning]

Originally posted by Rocinante
Thanks for those. Nice, clear recordings, and the tone's really happening. -- I'll have to keep an eye out for another Quad.

Thanks. Unfortunately when I recorded those tracks I couldn't crank it so they were done at loud bedroom levels. It really smoothens out when it's cranked.

[PaulA]

I think the GP3 can definitely cover the classic rock tones as well as the metal tones more associated with the VHT brand. The main feature of the GP3 is dialling in the 3 channels for the usual clean -crunch- solo combination and then using the boost, EQ, Fat and Bright options to get variations on the basic tone. Within the 2 dirty channels, there is an EQ shift called Deep , a switch to select the number of preamp gain stages ( either 3 or 4) and there is a control to vary the amount of boost for soloing.

I used the GP3 with the gain switch on 3 stages for the crunch channel and 4 for the lead channel. It gave a nice Marshall crunch and a smoother Boogie type lead sound.

Best Regards

Paul