Hey mshifflett... I went with the 20/20 :)

[Godsguitarist73]

Hey guys! Just wanted to let you know that I went with the 20/20 and couldn't be happier. :) Well, if I get another 4x12, I'm a little concerned, but I don't think I will. Anyways, it came in, I used it the first night, and was honestly kind of disappointed. I was used to solid-state "pristine-ness" and, as would be expected the mesa didn't have it. It actually sounded kinda muddy. I finally tweaked my POD and changed my pickup and got a decent sound. I had to take all of the bass out of my channels, tho, as it was farting my speakers out. And then I made a world of difference. I called thetubestore.com up to see what they would recommend and ordered some JJ/Tesla's. HOLY COW!!! What a difference!!!! These tubes sound BEAUTIFUL!! They're MUCH more clear and open sounding than the stock Mesa's (of which, to my knowledge, are Sovteks). WOW!! NOW, and ONLY NOW, am I happy. :D So my advice, get some JJ's for your EL84 amps. :) Thanks for all the help I received here. I'm glad I didn't go with a 50/50 because of the weight... heh. I'm running a Jackson/Charvel with h-s-h config into a POD, into my 20/20 into a Marshall 1960BV w/V-30's. Works AWESOME and sounds GREAT. I'm thinking about upgrading preamps next, with at least a PODPro or maybe a PODxt or a Triaxis. Gonna research. I'm kind of reluctant on the Triaxis because it seems hard to edit, but that's a different post. ;) Thanks again!

Brandon <><

[mshifflett]

Great news Brandon! I am glad you like your 20/20. I also run JJ's in mine and I am sooooooooooooooooo happy with the tone that I get from that little monster. With all of the bottom end you are talking about maybe it already has the deep mod done to it?

[Godsguitarist73]

I don't think so because with the JJ's, it cleared up. It was only with those Mesa's that it had an INSANE amount of bottom end. Now it seems to be just right. ;) It is only about 7 months old... it could POSSIBLY have the deep mod done on it, but I'm thinking it probably doesn't... if I was to open it up, where would I look to tell? Thanks.

Brandon <><

[mshifflett]

Send me your email address in a private message and I will send you the information on it.


Marty

[El Grinder]

attached is a picture of the 20/20's deep mod..

I know you said "that's another post" but dude, the Triaxis is stupidly simple to edit. It's like "hmm, I want more bass" you hit the "up" button below bass to increase bass.

You want a totally different mode/sound, you hit mode to toggle through modes.

You want to save it? You hit enter twice.

It's WAY stupidly simple and pretty intuitive for the basic playability... :)

[Godsguitarist73]

Hey guys! Email addy I'll get to right after this. As far as the Triaxis, I put that wrong. :) I understand it's easy to edit, but I've heard it's hard to get a good sound out of it. I know that that is very subject to opinion as far as what "good sound" is, but I prolly just need to go to GC and try one out (if they'll let me... heh). If anyone has any opinions on the Triaxis, shoot away. :) I'll prolly start another thread soon on it, though, if I feel like it. Thanks for all the help and comments!

Brandon <><

[miker2c]

As far as the Triaxis goes, man...I know its subjective to each individual's ears, but I can't imagine not getting a good sound out of it. Check the ratings on it in the HC reviews. Not to mention that there are an incredible number of professional and hobby level musicians using it. Some good friends of mine use them in their band--both guitarists, and they sound awesome. And, with the sweep of types of musicians--from John Petrucci to Al di Meola and other jazz fusion guys. It really isn't just a metal preamp.

When you really think about it, most preamps are based on the model of one amp--you may be able to save lots of presets, but they are all based off of one particular type a circuitry, or one preamp configuration, while the triaxis is based off many different amps in the Mesa line. It has to be one of the most versatile preamps out there!

Now, like I said in the beginning, it is a matter of personal taste. If you do not like the Mesa sound in general, then you probably won't be too happy with it. And, from what I have heard, it does take a lot of tweaking. But, now, I believe there are artist presets online available from Mesa that can be downloaded--that may help with initial programming. And, there are plentey of users on this forum who can steer you to the sounds that you are looking for--if you get one.

Right now, I'm in the process of saving for an additional preamp--I have an Engl 530, and I love it, but I want more midi versatility--so I can have many different distortion sounds and lots of different clean sounds. Once I have the money, I am going to weigh the pros, cons and sounds of the VHT GP3 and the triaxis. The VHT isn't as versatile as the Triaxis, but I loved the sound of the old VHT 50CL I used to have.

And, of course, all of these are tempory until I can afford an Engl 580!!!!!!!!!! But, who knows when that will be!

Mike

[mikeSF]

Originally posted by El Grinder
attached is a picture of the 20/20's deep mod..

I know you said "that's another post" but dude, the Triaxis is stupidly simple to edit. It's like "hmm, I want more bass" you hit the "up" button below bass to increase bass.

You want a totally different mode/sound, you hit mode to toggle through modes.

You want to save it? You hit enter twice.

It's WAY stupidly simple and pretty intuitive for the basic playability... :)

yeah, i went with the JJ's too and really love the sound. BTW, that is my amp in the deep mod picture.

[Iceblade]

Hey Marty,

Which mesa preamp are you using with your 20/20? I took a look at your setlist on your band's site, but it seems like I am after a pretty different tone in terms of what you guys play. I'm after a more high gain thrash, death, progressive metal tone... seems like Mirage does more of the pop/rock thing. I'm having the darnedest time squeezing what I want out of my TriAxis plus 20/20 setup. I just got JJ's last night... but haven't stuck them in yet... still waiting to hear from Bob concerning the fact that I only have one tube marked for the phase inverter socket and I have TWO phase inverter sockets. :(

Thanks,
Jeff


Originally posted by mshifflett
Great news Brandon! I am glad you like your 20/20. I also run JJ's in mine and I am sooooooooooooooooo happy with the tone that I get from that little monster. With all of the bottom end you are talking about maybe it already has the deep mod done to it?

[Godsguitarist73]

If I remember correctly, the 20/20 uses one 12ax7 for both phase inverters. I haven't replaced my 12ax7's, only my EL84's with JJs. :) Man, what a difference those tubes make, tho. I'm using a POD in a metal band and I'm getting a great sound. It was WAY too bassy, and then I discovered I was feeding a 4x12 emulated model into a 4x12... lol... that doesn't work real well. It sounds bad, now. Anyways, good luck to you in your quest for your sound. :)

Brandon <><

[mshifflett]

Originally posted by Iceblade
Hey Marty,

Which mesa preamp are you using with your 20/20? I took a look at your setlist on your band's site, but it seems like I am after a pretty different tone in terms of what you guys play. I'm after a more high gain thrash, death, progressive metal tone... seems like Mirage does more of the pop/rock thing. I'm having the darnedest time squeezing what I want out of my TriAxis plus 20/20 setup. I just got JJ's last night... but haven't stuck them in yet... still waiting to hear from Bob concerning the fact that I only have one tube marked for the phase inverter socket and I have TWO phase inverter sockets. :(

Thanks,
Jeff




I am using the Mesa Quad in my rack right now. Yeah you are right, we tend to stick to the lighter side for playing out in the clubs, I myself like the harder stuff. The Quad can go pretty extreme in the gain department. I have never went above 50% of its potential with the stuff we play.

[Slave 2 the Axe]

Triaxis...

Well, I had one and recently got rid of it. (Of course I kept my 2:90) Don't get me wrong...It IS a great unit, and there are a LOT of great sounds in it, but the thing I couldn't deal with was tweaking for HOURS trying to find those sounds...and then when I found something good, I could never get it to sound EXACTLY the way I wanted. There seemed to be something missing all the time. I tried different tubes numerous times...I don't know...it just wasn't for me I guess. A lot of people suggested eq's and such to help shape the sound better, but for $1600.00, I shouldn't NEED to go buy more gear for it to sound good.

After a lot of searching and trying out different preamps, I found my holy grail in the most unlikely of places...
The Line 6 PODxt PRO
That's right...I've turned to the dark side..."Digital Modeling"
Paired with my 2:90 this thing gives me every sound I'm looking for and tons more.

So there you have it...

Listen to your ears

[Iceblade]

Hey Brandon,

Thanks for the thoughts. Looking at my schematic for the 20/20, it clearly says that V2 and V7 are the phase inverters for Channel B and Channel A, respectively. On a POSITIVE note, I contacted Bob and he told me that while only one of the boxes for the tubes is marked, they are all matched and balanced, so any one of the tubes can go in any of the sockets with no difference in tone. YAY! Time to install these puppies and see if there is any difference.

Later,
Jeff


Originally posted by Godsguitarist73
If I remember correctly, the 20/20 uses one 12ax7 for both phase inverters. I haven't replaced my 12ax7's, only my EL84's with JJs. :) Man, what a difference those tubes make, tho. I'm using a POD in a metal band and I'm getting a great sound. It was WAY too bassy, and then I discovered I was feeding a 4x12 emulated model into a 4x12... lol... that doesn't work real well. It sounds bad, now. Anyways, good luck to you in your quest for your sound. :)

Brandon <><

[Godsguitarist73]

Rock on, man. :) Maybe it's one 12ax7 for the gain stage... I know one 12ax7 serves the same purpose for both channels somewhere... lol... or maybe I'm totally off... who knows? :) Make sure to reply back and let us know how much of a difference, or how much of not a difference (bad english, I know... heh). :) I am curious as to how it will affect the sound. :) Later!

Brandon <><

[Iceblade]

You bet, dude. Just got the tubes installed, but can't fire them up yet since my daughter is in bed. I'll be trying them out tomorrow though, for sure!!

I'll keep everyone in the loop as to what I hear.

Thanks,
Jeff


Originally posted by Godsguitarist73
Rock on, man. :) Maybe it's one 12ax7 for the gain stage... I know one 12ax7 serves the same purpose for both channels somewhere... lol... or maybe I'm totally off... who knows? :) Make sure to reply back and let us know how much of a difference, or how much of not a difference (bad english, I know... heh). :) I am curious as to how it will affect the sound. :) Later!

Brandon <><

[Godsguitarist73]

Sweet. :cool: I look forward to hearing back from ya. :)

Brandon <><

[Dave T]

Great thread. I recently re-tubed my 20/20 with EL 84 JJ's and EH 12AX7's. I wasn't entirely satisfied so I'm going to try swappping out the EH 12AX7's and go back to the Mesa 12AX7's. Anyone know "what kind" of 12Ax7's Mesa are using. Just curious and trying to understand the change. Tks.!

[El Grinder]

Look on the side of your Mesa 12AX7's. If they say "Russian-2" they are Sovteks. If they say something other than that, they might be Chinese.

[Tom Manning]

Originally posted by Godsguitarist73
If I remember correctly, the 20/20 uses one 12ax7 for both phase inverters. I haven't replaced my 12ax7's, only my EL84's with JJs. :) Man, what a difference those tubes make, tho. I'm using a POD in a metal band and I'm getting a great sound. It was WAY too bassy, and then I discovered I was feeding a 4x12 emulated model into a 4x12... lol... that doesn't work real well. It sounds bad, now. Anyways, good luck to you in your quest for your sound. :)

Brandon <><

What settings are you running now with cab sims and stuff? I like to play around with my POD pro through my 20/20 some times. Some of the models sounded great but a lot are far too bass heavy. I usually run a Mesa Quad through there too.

[Iceblade]

Well, I fired up the 20/20 with the new JJ tubes the other day through my TriAxis and mesa cab... it sounds a LITTLE better than the stock tubes did (Mesa branded Sovteks i.e. "Russian-2"), but it's still not what I am looking for. I am wondering if I just have no choice but to crank the amp to get the tone I want. If that's the case, then I am totally screwed. Even though I have double paned windows and stuff, the sound carries right through my home and my neighbors can hear it fairly well even when I am playing at "1" i.e. about 8:00 or 9:00 oclock on the volume dial. I run my triaxis outputs at "3" as instructed by the manual. Anyone know about using the slave outs to do direct recording? Is that possible? I may just call Mesa today and see what's what. Like I said, I use a DMC CabTone simulator sometimes and I know that they are like across the street from the Mesa factory. Maybe I can get the tone I want using the slave outs of the 20/20 into the Cabtone. Man, this is just a pain!

I'll keep everyone updated.

Later,
Jeff

[Dave T]

Yes those little Mesas are loud! I run mine with a Rocktron Prophesy to a 2X12 Avatar cab. I run the Mesa at 11 oclock and the Rocktron between 9 and 11 oclock depending on where I'm playing. I like it better when I'm pushing the Mesa a little. I didn't like the tone as much when I ran the Mesa at the levels you are describing. Guess you need to push it a bit and then edit your preamp patches to compensate. I've always been told to prepare my patches and eQ'ing for "gig volume levels". So that's what I do and it's a great way to empty the house of people... :-)

[Iceblade]

Hey Dave,

Well... see, that's the thing. Right now, I run the TA's output at "3" out of "10", which is what the manual suggests. My main volume is set from 3.5 to 4.5 depending on the patch. I'm afraid if I take any of these too much lower, I will be sacrificing tone at the preamp stage instead of the power amp... but I'll see what I can tweak later this week in terms of lowering things on the preamp side so I can raise them on the power amp.

Thanks,
Jeff

PS - BTW, you have any clips of that prophesy plus the 20/20? One of the bands I listen to, Adagio, used the Prophesy to do all the lead work on their first cd "Sanctus Ignis". Good stuff.

Originally posted by Dave T
Yes those little Mesas are loud! I run mine with a Rocktron Prophesy to a 2X12 Avatar cab. I run the Mesa at 11 oclock and the Rocktron between 9 and 11 oclock depending on where I'm playing. I like it better when I'm pushing the Mesa a little. I didn't like the tone as much when I ran the Mesa at the levels you are describing. Guess you need to push it a bit and then edit your preamp patches to compensate. I've always been told to prepare my patches and eQ'ing for "gig volume levels". So that's what I do and it's a great way to empty the house of people... :-)

[Dave T]

I might have some clips. My last band recorded every show to minidisk. We mic everything and worked hard on the sound so these "boardmixes" are usually decent. Now the tough part... finding them. If I have any left I'll let you know.

In any case, I've been using Rocktron gear for a long time and the Prophesy is a very good unit. It's a little tough to edit. There are pre and post EQ's plus regular Eq's and Global Eqs. It's a little intimidating at first but once you get a handle on it there are a lot of tones available.

I've been playing in 2 and 1/2 bands. One is mostly covers, bands such as Nickelback, Creed, Fuel, Collective Soul. The other is a Blues band where I need Clean patches and slightly overdriven stuff. And the "1/2" band is more of a jamband thing where my tone would be all over the place but often in the style of Joe Satriani's tone off of the Live in San Fran CD. The big secret with my gear for getting Satriani's tone is to simply turn it up.

I often get people checking out my rig and I think that they are somewhat disappointed. It's just the Mesa, The Prophesy and the Avatar 2X12. Hey, it only took me about 20 years to get something I like... :-)

[EVH Wolfgang]

Just out of currious if you left your cabinet emulation on?

If so, that would be a good thing to turn off!