Can someone please help me on putting this on? (G-Major related)

[FuhrerKurtKraut]

Hello guys

I want to hook up a G-Major with a mixing board, and then my amp. It would be like this:
Guitar --> mixing console (like little Behringer ones) --> G-Major --> My Amp
But I don't know how I should hook up everything... So, I will start with a few questions:

1- Why can't I plug my guitar directly into G-Major??? Because the guitar is high impedance or because it is low level??

2- The G-Major's inputs are:
Impedance: 21kOhm Balanced / 13kOhm Unbalanced
Max Input Level: +24 dBu

And the mixer outputs are:
Main mix max output: +22dBu
Aux Send max output: +22dBu
But the mixer's manual doesn't refer nothing about impedance... So, how should I know if I can connect the G-Major's input to any of these outputs??? Does impedance have to match or this is the case just with speakers??? Or does the output impedance have to be lower than the input impedance???

IF I can connect the G-Major to the AUX Send, should I put the AUX before or after the fader??? Why??? Someone told me to put before the fader, so I will have line levels to the G-Major... How's that???

Can someone really help me here?!??!

Thanks in advance
C'ya
FKK

[Yek]

It won't work. You can't plug the guitar into the mixer without a pre-amp between the both.

Form tcelectronic.com: "You should not plug your guitar straight into the G-Major, as the input stage is not made to accept input from sources with high impedance. Instead we recommend that you go through a preamp first."

Why would you want to use that mixer anyway?

[FuhrerKurtKraut]

Originally posted by Yek
It won't work. You can't plug the guitar into the mixer without a pre-amp between the both.

Form tcelectronic.com: "You should not plug your guitar straight into the G-Major, as the input stage is not made to accept input from sources with high impedance. Instead we recommend that you go through a preamp first."

Why would you want to use that mixer anyway?

But it says that I can't plug the guitar directly because it is a high impedance source... And I emailed TC Electronics support and Quinton Nixon, from TCE, said that I could use it this way, but he didn't say why...

C'ya
FKK

[Yek]

Because you CAN plug the guitar into the G-Major but it wiill just sound shit and not usable.

[tubefreak]

Both impedance and level is the problem.

The impedance of a guitar is between 500k and 3M depending on a lot of factors. It prefers to see an input impedance of about 1M, otherwise the unit will load down the pickup and cause your signal to loose high frequencies. This is a drastic affect!

The other problem is levels. Guitar generaly don't produce much output, they've very weak, no wonder cause they're passive. A G-Major expects a signal which is A LOT louder. A weak signal from your guitar causes the G-Major to add a lot of hiss and noise and it's tuner will mostlikely not function as well.

You could easily built a small opamp design to boost your signal level. It could have a high impedance input and a low impedance output which would solve your problems.

But one important question still leaves to be answered. WHY DO YOU WANT TO DO THIS?

Maarten

[FuhrerKurtKraut]

Because I don't want to buy a pre-amp right now and want to use the G-Major without dry signal passing through, which would happen when using it on the FX Loop of my comboamp... Then I thought about a mixer, wich features 120Ohms outputs, and line levels, I think...

c'ya
FKK

[tubefreak]

It's not really worth a try because I've read various reports from people who tried it before. It seems the G-Major isn't great if you use it only for wet signals and feed it with dry signals.

But I haven't tried it myself, but various people have and most of them had troubles with it. You might find some on this subject at hugeracksinc forum.

I've worked with 2 different rigs with the G-Major in series connected and in both cases it did sound very nice. I know dry/wet mixing is better, but unless you really know what you're doing and use really good gear it pays off. Otherwise it can introduce hum, noise, hiss and a lot of programming horror !!

Maarten

[Yek]

Originally posted by FuhrerKurtKraut
Because I don't want to buy a pre-amp right now and want to use the G-Major without dry signal passing through, which would happen when using it on the FX Loop of my comboamp... Then I thought about a mixer, wich features 120Ohms outputs, and line levels, I think...
c'ya
FKK

???
If you're using the amp's fx loop, you can have it block the dry signal. This happens anyway in a series fx loop. In a parallel fx loop you have to set the mix control to 100% wet to keep the dry (unaffected) signal from coming through. Then, to allow only the fx sounds to come through, set the effect to 100% in the G_Major's menus.
BTW, the G-Major isn't suited anyway to be used as a parallel fx device (Maarten states just the same thing above, if you want to check it for yourself: visit www.tcelectronic.com and go to the Interactive Support forum).

[FuhrerKurtKraut]

Originally posted by tubefreak
It's not really worth a try because I've read various reports from people who tried it before. It seems the G-Major isn't great if you use it only for wet signals and feed it with dry signals.


What did you mean here????? I didn't get it... There are some situations in which is better to no dry signal comes out, so I don't want to use it in a parallel FX loop...



But I haven't tried it myself, but various people have and most of them had troubles with it. You might find some on this subject at hugeracksinc forum.

I've worked with 2 different rigs with the G-Major in series connected and in both cases it did sound very nice. I know dry/wet mixing is better, but unless you really know what you're doing and use really good gear it pays off. Otherwise it can introduce hum, noise, hiss and a lot of programming horror !!

Maarten


c'ya
FKK

[FuhrerKurtKraut]

Originally posted by Yek


???
If you're using the amp's fx loop, you can have it block the dry signal. This happens anyway in a series fx loop. In a parallel fx loop you have to set the mix control to 100% wet to keep the dry (unaffected) signal from coming through. Then, to allow only the fx sounds to come through, set the effect to 100% in the G_Major's menus.


But if using in a parallel FX loop, even when settin the mix control at 100%, there still will be dry signal coming out, not out of G-Major, but signal passing "outside" the FX loop... And this signal is not possible to remove with the G-Major, so I'm trying to get a work-around, without having to spend lots of money on a good pre-amp, like JMP-1 that I want to buy in the future...


BTW, the G-Major isn't suited anyway to be used as a parallel fx device (Maarten states just the same thing above, if you want to check it for yourself: visit www.tcelectronic.com and go to the Interactive Support forum).

That's what I'm saying... So I was thinking about using a mixer to increase guitar level and lower impedance, and use one of it's outputs do plug into G-Major, then from G-Major to my amp.....
But If this doesn't work, what do you guys think I can use?? Is there any cheap but good pre-amp, just to amplify my signal to G-Major???? One with MIDI, but that's not strictly necessary...I want to control my tone, to EQ it and other stuff on my comboamp...
How good is Rocktron Gainiac??

Thanks a lot guys
C'ya
FKK

[miker2c]

Everyone is talking about the front end of you rig, but I also think that you will have a problem with the back end. Are you still planning to plug the out from the G-Major into the guitar input of your amp? If you are, it really won't work because of the same problems that you are having on the front end: The G-Major puts out a line level signal (hotter than instrument level), and the amp is looking for an instrument level signal. The only way it would work is for you to route it into the effects return of your effects loop, but then you will lose your whole preamp section on your amp.

You may end up needing to break down and purchase a preamp, and then run through the preamp into the G-Major and into the effects return on your amp so you will just be using the power section of the amp. I don't know that there is any way to get around that.

Mike

[FuhrerKurtKraut]

Originally posted by miker2c
Everyone is talking about the front end of you rig, but I also think that you will have a problem with the back end. Are you still planning to plug the out from the G-Major into the guitar input of your amp? If you are, it really won't work because of the same problems that you are having on the front end: The G-Major puts out a line level signal (hotter than instrument level), and the amp is looking for an instrument level signal. The only way it would work is for you to route it into the effects return of your effects loop, but then you will lose your whole preamp section on your amp.

You may end up needing to break down and purchase a preamp, and then run through the preamp into the G-Major and into the effects return on your amp so you will just be using the power section of the amp. I don't know that there is any way to get around that.

Mike

That1s a good point. But if you look at the G-Major's manual, in "Basic Setups" section, you will find the following:


Serial Setup with Preamp and one or two Combo Amps
- Connect the Output of your preamp to the Input of the G-Major.
- Connect the Output of the G-Major to either the Input or the Loop Return of the Combo or Combos.
- To be able to switch preamp channels with G-Major, connect the Relay Jack connection on the G-Major to the channel switching jacks in the preamo. (this does not apply for MIDI preamps).

Using the return on the Combo's effect loop will in most cases give you a seput similar to the power-amp setup described above.
Using the regular Input on the Combo gives you a "double-preamp" setup where you can use the tone controls on the Combo to color your sound. This introduces more noise than when using the Effect Return connection, but has become a popular setup with amplifiers like Vox AC 30, Fender Bassman etc.


So, what do you think?? The manual says that I can connect the G-Major's output to the amp's input......

FKK

[buckwheat]

The manual does say that you can hock it up to the input of the amp and have a "double preamp setup". I think that if you keep the output of the G-major set at a resonable level you won't overdrive the input of the combo amp. Remember, as long as you don't hookup something "dangerously" (i.e. poweramp output into combo amp, etc...). There aren't really any rules that can't be broken and new and interesting sounds created. Just because someone says, "That's not the way you do it!!", doesn't mean that you can't and shouldn't experiment to see what sounds best to you. Try different setups and see what works best.

[miker2c]

Well, I guess if it is in the manual then it is possible. I was thinking theoretically, since it is the same issue that you are dealing with going into the imput of the G-Major.

Mike

[Yek]

Originally posted by FuhrerKurtKraut
But if using in a parallel FX loop, even when settin the mix control at 100%, there still will be dry signal coming out, not out of G-Major, but signal passing "outside" the FX loop... And this signal is not possible to remove with the G-Major, so I'm trying to get a work-around, without having to spend lots of money on a good pre-amp, like JMP-1 that I want to buy in the future...
[/B]

No, that's not the case. If you set the MIX control to 100%, there's no dry sigal that bypasses the loop anymore. In other words, all sound goes thru the processor.
Of course inside the G-Major there still will be uneffected (but digitized) signal passing through. It's a feature (or rather annoyance) that the G-Major doesn't allow to kill all dry signal internally! That's why it's better suited for series fx loops.

If you do want to put a small pre-amp in front and doesn't need to be a 19" unit, consider the H&K Tubeman. I't's a great sounding device.

[tonedoctor1]

Try searching this forum first before posting yet another version of the same thing. This subject has only been discussed a million times. Here`s your answer.


http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=463875