Late at rehearsals: feedbacks needed!

[bennyleb]

For the second time since I joined my band, 3 months ago, I'm having some spicy discussion with the other members of my band. The problem is that some of them - and one in particular - are almost always late at rehearsals.

In the beginning, we set the time of the rehearsal at 7:30pm. The guys kept arriving between 7:40-8:00, then they would plug in - I'm the drummer - and then we would begin to play around 8:30-8:45.

To me, that doesn't make sense. For a 7:30 rehearsal, I would arrive to the studio at 7:10-7:15, get me some water, make some last-minute tuning and then I would be ready to start jamming at 7:30-7:40. If I have some major setting up or tuning to do, I would get there an hour or so earlier, depending of the extend of the setting up to do.

My view on this? I think that punctuality is very important and if a musician cannot get on time and show some respect to the other members (i.e. doesn't waste their time), the problem will only get bigger and bigger and then, it will have a negative effect on the image and the profesionnalism of the band. My time is very valuable and I don't have any to waste. My motto is that if you wanna be a pro, act like a pro. Show up on time and know your songs, but don't waste my time.

The singer is one part of the problem: he's ALWAYS late (I'm talking up to half an hour to 1:30 after the scheduled time) for no justified reason and he makes phone calls on his cell between songs. Since we usually practice in the evening and that I have to get up early to get to my job, it's a problem for me. He was also late in almost every other situation I could witness: at a gig to set up the equipment, at the studio where we recorded our demo.

My concern with all this is that, first, I can't cope with this situation anymore and second, after two discussions and numerous moments of frustrations, the other guys will not change. I don't expect anybody to change and, quite honestly, it is not my damn business, but by their actions, these guys will never have access to a certain level of profesionnalism and success, simply because they don't see the point in all this.

What do you think? Any advice or opinion will be greatly appreciated!

[drummerjoe]

Man thats tough. Singers are an odd bunch arent they? They are almost like girls. Well.... if you have talked to them and they dont care, im not sure what more you can do. I agree that its only get worse. Late to practice is bad, but late to recording and gigs is inexcusable. I mean ask them... is this a part time hobby to your band? Cause they are NOT treating it like a job. And your time IS valueable. Does anyone in the band agree with you? I had this same problems with my first 3 bands. The band im in now gets there before I do! Like 30 mins before I show up 30 mins early! Its so nice! And its not because they are super serious, they just cant wait to play! Some people are in bands for the love of the music (you), and some just fall in love with the idea (them). I would talk to them again and be very serious... tell them what you want to come of the band and how you see it happening... then just ask them how they see it. If it dosent work out, then I would play with them long enough to find another band, and get the hell out. But man, I totally understand. And its hard to see potential go to waste. My band actually has some set rules if you wanna hear them for practice...

1) cell phones get left in the car
2) show up on time.
3) when practice starts, it starts... be ready to play
4) no friends can come to practice

thats pretty much our guidelines.... But honestly.. it sounds like a band means more to you than it does to them. I just get off on playing and its the hi light of my day. Good luck man, and I think any serious musician has been where you are before!

[bennyleb]

Hey drumerjoe, and thanks for your view on this.

Each member of the band say that they are very serious with this band and thay they all want to do originals songs, then a demo, etc. We are even close to hiring a manager. You see why I need some advice! Because they all wanna get serious and they're not wise enough to see where it all begins.

And you know what the funny part is: I'm the one in the band who's doig it simply because I love playing drums and playing music. I started playing when I was strong enough to hold cooking spoons and to hit my mom's pots and pans! Recently I completly stopped playing for 4-5 years (I was establishing my “other” career as a graphic designer) and started playing again 2 years ago because I missed playing music so much. Right now, I don't need to get successful, I have a job that I like, a beautiful and intelligent girfriend, I'm a pretty happy guy! I only play because I like it and these guys are ruining it. You bet I'm gonna ditch them when I find some more “mature” musiciens. The other members are 27/25/33 years old and I'm also 33.

By the way, the singer only does this because he likes to be seen. He has an ego problem and I don't have time to fu** with.

Your band's rules are great. I'll apply them... with my next band!!

Thanks again.

[TeleScreamer]

maybe it's a dumb question, but do you have a time scheduled for the END of the rehearsal?

One thing that could work: Have your rehearsals on a studio room, so you'll surely have a frozen period to start and to finish yous sessions.

[6am eternal]

Man, you're the DRUMMER!!! Bang on your bogos like crazy from 7:30 on, whoever's in the room. If they complain (and they will), tell them you started the rehearsal.

Or....if the schedule rehearsal is 7:30, show up at 8:30.

Seriously, though, I agree that it's a total lack of respect. I hate people who are late. And living in L.A., I know quite a few. Usually, if I have an appointment at 8pm, I'll be late and arrive around 8:20pm, and be the first at the appointment anyway, with the others arriving between 8:35 and 9:10. Go figure.

[cavemanic]

Dude tell them practise is at 6:30 but make it 7 with the space if you pay or the time you arrive
so either
a.they'll arrive at 7 with you on time (not really but..:D )
b.you will get there at 7 and they'll already be there(highly unlikely) and be pissed at you (may make them realise)
c.they'll still be late :D

I once had this dickhead guitarist that could only see things from his point of view ,a classic

He had been late forever and sometimes wouldn't show up no phone calls nothing ,so he came in one day and we went off

Anyway one time i came to practice 5 MINUTES LATE ( I still needed a lift in those days)and he went off his head going "if I showed up to work late it wouldn't matter if it was 5 min's or a hour" So i got stuck in and the whole band was at each others throats ,god love those days...

[swingset]

If you're in any kind of business dealing with musicians, you had better get used to them being late, or not showing up at all.

I expect it, plan on it, and use my superior intellect to bend them to my will.:p

[Kingnome]

It's time to find a new band. You won't get anywhere with those guys. Good luck !

[Outkaster]

Really I know it is a pain in the ass but if "Blustrat sees this thread he will give advise.:confused:

[grutko]

Communication is very important when you are in a band. Don't assume others should know what your thinking. Get the members of the band together and discuss this problem with them. If they are serious about music, they will get to rehearsal on time. If not, I would suggest looking for other musicians that have the same goals as you. Don't waste time banging your head on a wall.

Try to set aside some time every couple of weeks and discuss band matters.

::grutko::

[JTR]

If you're paying for rehearsal space by the hour it's a pain in the ass if people show up late. A lot of people figure that if you're booked from 7-10 for example then to show up sometime between those hours is OK. IT"S NOT!
I think the best solution if they won't make the effort is to tell them you have it booked earlier than you really do. Some people just don't see punctuality as important at all. I'm lucky that the guys I'm playing with now all show up early, that's because they can't wait to get started. Lateness and flakiness seem to be the accepted norm here in LA and it sucks.

[BLACKWINGEDBEING]

Originally posted by drummerjoe
Man thats tough. Singers are an odd bunch arent they? They are almost like girls.........

and drummers don't know shit about music.
Any more dumbass generalities you care to share?

[Paool]

I agree with most of drummerjoe's first post. Some people will be playing music because they like the idea of, well...themselves playing music. Others do it because they just sincerely enjoy it. I always felt that when band members wander into practice 30, 45, 60 minutes late, it's really disrespectful of everyone else. People who are chronically late to practice are basically communicating the notion that their time is more important than mine, and I can just wait (and waste my time) because they are poor managers of their time. Hey, if someone is an hour late, the band is either (1) going to have to stay an hour later or (2) not get as much practice in.

Bah! It's just rude any way you slice it.

[Scheming Demon]

Unfortunately this is an all too common occurrence. Too many people don't look at a band like it's a job and act professionally. Those that do are more likely to succeed. Those that don't complain the rest of us are too anal.

There's no middle ground as far as I'm concerned. You either put up with it or replace the offending members if they can't or refuse to change their habits.

I also agree it is rude, highly unprofessional and demonstrates a serious lack of dedication. 5-15 minutes late you can let slide but when it is consistently 1 hour or more late that is inexcusable.

I hate when people pull that crap:mad: .

[drummerjoe]

Originally posted by BLACKWINGEDBEING


and drummers don't know shit about music.
Any more dumbass generalities you care to share? Hhaha strike a nerve? In this case it looks like the singer is the one that cand handle things, so simmer down.

[rangerkarlos]

I like the idea of a quitting time. Then, when these clowns finally figuer out which end of the mic to sing into, and which SRV tone they've dialed in, you look at your watch and say "Later, taters. It be quittin time". And leave.

Our practices are 2 hours 7:00 - 9:00. Strict, like clockwork.

You're right about "be pro- act pro". This includes manners, clothing, punctuality, finesse, attitude, humor, sobriety, gear maintenence...the list goes on.

This is showBUSINESS, not air guitar in the bedroom.

The whole "stroll in with attitude and kiss my ass" scenario is fictional for the working band.

Once one is over that hump, it's like any other activity. Work hard, get good, do your best every time, and good things will come.

Anything less is pure selfish bullshit. With apologies to the one who said "get used to musicians being late"- wrong.

Pros are pros. I'd rather work with a good reliable musician than a great playing jerk-off any day of the week and twice on Saturday nights.

The reliable guy is going to help you get and keep gigs, no doubt about it.

Karlos

[BLACKWINGEDBEING]

Originally posted by drummerjoe
Hhaha strike a nerve? In this case it looks like the singer is the one that cand handle things, so simmer down.

I'll simmer down if you stop being such a great example of a "drummer"!
What an ass!

[drummerjoe]

Originally posted by BLACKWINGEDBEING


I'll simmer down if you stop being such a great example of a "drummer"!
What an ass! hahaaha... dosent bother me at all man. there are plenty of execptions to the rule, but generally singers are ninnies. Needy, whiny and slefish. Take it for what its worth... Just an opinion, from a stranger on an online message board... dont get to riled up.

[BLACKWINGEDBEING]

Originally posted by drummerjoe
hahaaha... dosent bother me at all man. there are plenty of execptions to the rule, but generally singers are ninnies. Needy, whiny and slefish. Take it for what its worth... Just an opinion, from a stranger on an online message board... dont get to riled up.


Drummers :rolleyes:

[drummerjoe]

Originally posted by BLACKWINGEDBEING



Drummers :rolleyes: HAHAHahahaha


ahahHaha
hAhAH
AhHAahehehehe
ehEHhe


hehehehe
hEhh GOOD ONE!
AHHhhhahahaha
ahaha hehahahah



seriously!


AHhahah hahahaha hehehehehe hehehe lol lol
ROFLMAO!!!

AAAAAAAAAAhhhhhh DRUMMMERS!!!! GET IT?!


AHAHAHhaha aaAAAhahshehehehehehehe
OOOOOOOOOOoHHHHHHHHHhhahahahahah ah



haha hehehehe



hehehe ahahahaha
hahah
hahahahaha lol.

[Fafnir777]

Find another band.

They obviously aren't as serious and/or dedicated as you are.

Tell them point blank that it's nothing personal, but you need to be in a situation with people who are dedicated to playing music, which includes showing up to practice on time.

Find yourself another band, and make sure the guys are dedicated, or build a band...create a profile of what you wish to accomplish, and then go for it.

For example, I don't do drugs, and I don't drink.
I've had my time wasted enough over the years. Yeah, I know I'm a hard ass, but that's just the way that it is. I have close to $30K in musical, live sound, and recording equipment of my own money. I'm very serious about what I do.
I don't play with drunks or drug users (and that includes pot smokers.. I just simply don't do it, and I'm not going to get in trouble for hanging around with people who do it. I do not associate with drug users. Period.)

And I don't play with musicians who can't sing. I studied Opera for several years, and I feel that it is "beneath" me to play with people who are only HALF of a musician....Sure you can play Yngwie licks like mad, but the real question is can you sing lead vocals if the lead singer gets sick?

So, I say hit the music stores, classified ads, etc. and find some guys who are serious about playing music.


Tim

[Kingnome]

Originally posted by Fafnir777
And I don't play with musicians who can't sing. I studied Opera for several years, and I feel that it is "beneath" me to play with people who are only HALF of a musician....Sure you can play Yngwie licks like mad, but the real question is can you sing lead vocals if the lead singer gets sick?


Tim

Whoa ..... that's a bit rough, isn't it ? I'm the most anal person I know when it comes to low tolerance for BS in bands, but that "must sing lead" thing ? "Half a musician" ? Well, at least my other half is serious.

[Fafnir777]

Originally posted by Kingnome


Whoa ..... that's a bit rough, isn't it ? I'm the most anal person I know when it comes to low tolerance for BS in bands, but that "must sing lead" thing ? "Half a musician" ? Well, at least my other half is serious.

Well, think about it this way.

How would Queen, Kansas, Yes, Asia or any of the other bands that have awesome harmonies have turned out if only the lead singer could sing? The odds are that they would not have been signed.
The same goes for Def Leppard....of course, some people would see THAT one as a blessing!:D:D:D


Tim

[Kingnome]

Originally posted by Fafnir777


Well, think about it this way.

How would Queen, Kansas, Yes, Asia or any of the other bands that have awesome harmonies have turned out if only the lead singer could sing?
In the world of bar-bands, country bands, etc., I can almost see your point, but major rock acts cancel when their singer can't sing.
Why? Because he's the singer.

The odds are that most of the vocals on recordings were done by the lead singer (ie Freddy Mercury, and Steve Walsh ), and/or pro back-up vocalists. Live, many bands use pro back-up vocalists.Why? Because it sounds better that way.
How can you possibly expect EVERYONE in a band to be a lead vocalist?

The Eagles are a rare exception, and that was then...In todays music business, who even cares for harmonies, anyway ?

I, like many people, play more than a couple of instuments. How many of us would make one musician?

Thank you for letting me kneel at your feet and share.

[BLACKWINGEDBEING]

Originally posted by drummerjoe
HAHAHahahaha


ahahHaha
hAhAH
AhHAahehehehe
ehEHhe


hehehehe
hEhh GOOD ONE!
AHHhhhahahaha
ahaha hehahahah



seriously!


AHhahah hahahaha hehehehehe hehehe lol lol
ROFLMAO!!!

AAAAAAAAAAhhhhhh DRUMMMERS!!!! GET IT?!


AHAHAHhaha aaAAAhahshehehehehehehe
OOOOOOOOOOoHHHHHHHHHhhahahahahah ah



haha hehehehe




hehehe ahahahaha
hahah
hahahahaha lol.

So eloquent..............................Drummers :rolleyes:

[ORomero]

Originally posted by drummerjoe
hahaaha... dosent bother me at all man. there are plenty of execptions to the rule, but generally singers are ninnies. Needy, whiny and slefish. Take it for what its worth... Just an opinion, from a stranger on an online message board... dont get to riled up.


How old are you? 12?
:rolleyes:

[Scheming Demon]

Originally posted by Kingnome
How can you possibly expect EVERYONE in a band to be a lead vocalist?

Have to agree with the King here. It's certainly a tremendous bonus to have multiple singers in the same band but it is rare. Journey & Yes are few and far between.

There have been many successful bands with only one main singer, there is no iron clad rule. Just finding decent musicians is hard enough but to find decent musicians that can also sing well is a lot harder. Unless your music is utter simplicity itself where you can look for good singers and hope to teach them how to play an instrument. Of course, you still have to find the good singers and that's not too easy nowadays either.

Imagine all those egos in the same room together. The entire region you're in might just implode.

Iron Maiden, Judas Priest, Black Sabbath, Dream Theater, Rush (to name a few) did pretty well with only one singer. Dream Theater only recently added harmonies live and they really shouldn't. If there are any harmony vocals in these types of bands they are almost always done by the lead singer and left out of the live versions.

[kimba]

Right on rangerkarlos. I use to watch our lead singer walk through the door an hour late for three weeks. What did I do? I quit. Bass players don't have to put up with that crap. When members start doing that crap, it's time to find serious musicians.

[agt5]

This is funny, I came to this forum with plans on posting about the problems with my tardy singer. Here is the situation.

4pc Rock band, vox-guitar/guitar-backup vox/bass/drums

We have all known each other forever, we were in the same graduating class. The drummer and I were in a successful local band for 3 years. The bassist filled in for the last year of that. The singer has never been in a band that has done anything, he was in a small garage band with the drummer a few years ago, but it didn't work out, and they barely played. They were just in it for fun at 15.

The drummer, bassist, and myself are always ontime, and ready to go within 20 minutes of the set practice time. But we are always at least in the building on time. The singer is very rarely on time. He has been between 30min to 3 hours late. When he gets there, he still has to setup, plugin, get his song lists, notes...yadayada. Meantime, we are all sitting around, with guitars strapped on ready to go.

We had a gig Saturday, we unloaded at the bar, setup, went home to change and clean up, and were to meet back at the bar at 9, to start at 10. He didn't show up until 10:30. People were getting restless, they came out to see us, and we weren't starting. The three "ontimers" had to make excuses for him. When he got there, he acted like it wasn't a big deal, and just wanted to start as normal.

We all sat down the other day at practice, a few days before this gig, and talked about everyone's time. I explained that I'm dealing with over an hour commute to get to the jam house to practice, and I didn't appreciate waisting an hour waiting on his ass. I have altered my work schedule to fit in to the band, and sacrafice a lot to make it there, and put my time and talent into it. The drummer goes to college two hours away. He is willing to transfer here, or even break for a year, to see what we are capable of doing. This is how much we love playing music. I explained the reason that the drummer and I enjoyed moderate local success in our old band. We were all dedicated, and knew what we had to do to get things in order, and keep them efficient.

We have only had this new band for about 2 months. I have made a deal with the drummer, that we are going to give the singer one more chance. After that, it's over. This is a hard thing to do, because I really see a lot of potential in what is here. He is a great singer, looks good, good frontman attitude, good songwriter, decent guitar player. He just will not fall into a group setting. We don't want to quit, but we are going to have to do something to get it through his head. We have practice tonight at 6:30. We are going to have a discussion if he is ontime or not, because of what happened Saturday. We are going to see how he responds to our outlook, and comments. If he is late we are not practicing, and we are going to give him the ultimatum of shape up or get out. It's not his band, it's not anyone's band, but the problem will be fixed one way or another. What sucks is, we don't have anyone for a singer, and it is a royal pain in the ass looking for one. Hopefully he can come around, so we can move on, and unlock some of this potential that I think is there. I'll let you know the outcome. WISH US LUCK!!!

[benleb]

Good luck, agt5, and keep us posted on how it went.

I'm the instigator of this post (bennyleb is at home and benleb is at work) and my situation is that I'm the only one in the band who has the guts to complain about the singer being late.

When I tell them how I feel about the situation, they all agree (except the singer, of course, he has an ego problem and he doesn't really care) but they don't back me up when on a regular basis. I think they are some kind of sissies when it comes to giving their opinions up front, and that's a very big problem, believe me. I feel like I'm always the only one who's complaining when, in fact, I'm the only one who's acting like a professional.

As a band, we sound great, just like yours, agt5. The singer has a good voice, he however needs some lessons on the technical side to correct his bad habits. We put up a tribute band (It's a beautiful day...) and we sound exactly like the original. Now that this is established, we do original in rehearsal and we play live with our tribute set so we it's easier to be booked and make some money out of it.

In my particular situation, there is no future with this band. Why? Because the singer has a controlling effect on the two others members (guit/bass) because this pinead has a big mouth and he knows how to manupulate them... and believe me, they don't see him coming at all. But I do, and I don't need and I don't want that shit in my life. Since I stand up to him, he always takes his revenge and stab me in the back, that's his game.

All I can do is look for other mature and professionnal - in their acting, first and foremost - musicians and leave this band when the time will come.

[Kingnome]

Originally posted by kimba
What did I do? I quit. Bass players don't have to put up with that crap.


That is a classic !!

[EcHoplex]

My concern with all this is that, first, I can't cope with this situation anymore and second, after two discussions and numerous moments of frustrations, the other guys will not change. I don't expect anybody to change and, quite honestly, it is not my damn business, but by their actions, these guys will never have access to a certain level of profesionnalism and success, simply because they don't see the point in all this.

What do you think? Any advice or opinion will be greatly appreciated!



Ben - here's the thing. Obviously your in a catch22. Your dealing with band members - who for lack of a better term...don't give a shit. It sucks but, if I were you I'd leave. Fuck'em....who needs that kind of nonsense. Imagine if things are this bad now...how bad are the gonna be down the road you know? Obviously, they are not reliable and cannot be counted upon to do their job and hold up their end of the responsibilties. Besides, you said you've talked to them numerous times about all of this and nothing has changed so I think you know the only way this can be handled.
Consider it a lesson learned and good riddance on your part to get on with your career.

As far as punctuality goes - my motto: To be early is to be on time ...to be on time is to be late!

[Terry Allan Hall]

Best advice? Join a band of PROFESSIONALS!!!!

Pros ARE on time, and they DON'T waste time!

Wonder if I could trade my drummer (who shares a lot of your lead vox's annoying habits) to your band for you? :confused:

Then everyone would have what they want! :D

[justcrash]

Originally posted by Terry Allan Hall
Best advice? Join a band of PROFESSIONALS!!!!

Pros ARE on time, and they DON'T waste time!



Exactly. I take over $6000 worth of equipment to EVERY gig. Me. Personally. Not counting all of my other gear at home and our rehearsal area. I do not work with immature indiviudals and I will not tolerate anything but professionalism when it comes to music. I've had my time wasted to much in the past when I've made exceptions.

[fuge]

Originally posted by justcrash


Exactly. I take over $6000 worth of equipment to EVERY gig. Me. Personally. Not counting all of my other gear at home and our rehearsal area. I do not work with immature indiviudals and I will not tolerate anything but professionalism when it comes to music. I've had my time wasted to much in the past when I've made exceptions.
Agreed!

[TheSandwich]

You should all go solo...it's fun.