what musical style tends to have the best lyricists?

[tramampoline]

Well?....hmmm????

[Lord Lucifer]

i guess that just depends on what you consider good lyrics. How about What makes lyrics good?

[tramampoline]

It really is a matter of personal perception and understanding of what the lyricist is trying to get across. No matter what style or era, the defining characteristic of a good songwriter is an ability to connect with the listener. I'm just kind of taking note of some bands nowadays that really have dull or two-dimensional lyrics...but I suppose that's always been around. I guess it was a stupid question

[Lord Lucifer]

its not stupid. I think death metal lyrics about killing then raping women are absolutley retarded. i love metal with a passion but not the the certain bands who sing about that stuff in cookie monster voices. metal has some great lyrics too, just like all other styles of music. I think it just depends on the artist, not the style.

[tramampoline]

Yeah, you bring up another good point. Passion is necessary when writing or singing a song. You can connect to people lyrically without being passionate, but in the end it'll just be a sound and nothing more.

[Metalcore4christ825]

I think it all depends on the artist, you have good lyricists in metal, like bruce fitzhugh (living sacrifice), or james hetfield (metallica), then you also have good lyricists in alternative like Billy Corgan(Smashing Pumpkins, Zwan), and Kurt Cobain (Nirvana), however one genre that has NO good lyrics is Rap, can't stand that "music" whatsoever.

[tramampoline]

Yes
Rap=bad

Every rap song I've heard has horrible lyrics really. There's really not too much to like about the entire genre unless you dig on rappers "singin" bout' knockin someone's girlfriend up. My lord. The only thing that ever catches my ear in terms of rap at times is the rhythm, and even that is extremely rare. Oh yeah, it's good to see a Living Sacrifice fan on the forum. Good band with great lyrics (also, they're pretty good on the ole' geetar as well)

[thelonius74]

I'd say showtunes. they have to tell the story, get to the point, make it melodic, make the lyrics and music flow.


Tramampoline, I'm not saying this to flame you, but that is a very naive and narrowminded post you have written. I mean just the fact that it starts out with rap=bad.

I'm not asking you to like rap, but your stereotypes about rappers are a bit dated and do not serve you well.

Did you see Lauryn Hill's show she did on MTV with that acoustic band? great lyrics, great performance.

I will admit that most rap on MTV is trash, but there is loads of good lyrics out there. and everyone who says that even a genre of 'gangsta rap' is about shooting people are making it apparent that they are not really listening to the whole songs. People like Public Enemy and N.W.A. were writing extremely socially revelant songs and were ahead of their time.

[tramampoline]

Sorry if I appeared naive Thelonius. I do admit that bands like Public Enemy do put out some good stuff. Apologies. I am but a rookie at this posting business.

[Bossa]

First of all, let's admit that most lyrics suck. Take Britney Spears ''Oops,'' Steve Miller's ''Abracadabra,'' and Van Halen's ``Jump'' as almost random examples. The lyrics of these songs are inane and non-poetic, and they'd never stand up as written word. The key is, they don't have to. Songs aren't poems and lyrics often times have the sole function of creating mood - that's why you can throw a 'yeah, baby' into most songs without damaging them. Nowadays we find the lyrics in CD liner notes, but they don't really have to be there. When a song lacks both good lyrics and melody it's dead in the water, but one or the other is enough to make it good. If you listen to the radio you know that most songs are about love. Even the songs that aren't about love really are. I'm a songwriter and not a hopeless romantic, but it doesn't take a genius to understand that interpretations of love are generally what make people sing, and listen to songs. So how do you evoke those interpretations in your lyrics. Arguably, the best ingredient of any love song is nostalgia. This is what Springsteen, Dire Straits, Bob Dylan, John Prine, Lyle Lovett do superbly. But take a pop icon not in that pantheon of great lyricits: Bryan Adams. If you can write a song as simple and nostalgic as ''Summer of 69'' then you'll have to fuck up to not become a millionaire.

[Rage Bass Dude]

Originally posted by Metalcore4christ825
however one genre that has NO good lyrics is Rap, can't stand that "music" whatsoever.

I'm sorry but Chuck D (Public Enemy), he's a good songwritter

[Non-Sequitur]

Originally posted by Metalcore4christ825
... however one genre that has NO good lyrics is Rap, can't stand that "music" whatsoever.

Rock music has shitty lyrics. I'm qualified to make this statement because I just listened to Limp Bizkit and Blink 182 on MTV. All rock music must be like that.

[SteveNutz]

For some good lyrics, check out Ani DiFranco. She writes some very memorable and quotable stuff. And in my limited opinion, quotability is a genuine sign of good lyrics.

Also, believe it or not (and I know it's hard), there is actually good rap out there. A recent example, Nas - One Life. It actually has lyrics that mean something and a good dynamic structure.

[electricmel]

Any style of music has its share of unbeleivably prolific lyric writers.

Including rap, country and aggro-death metal.

To say that one genre does not have "any good lyrics, dude" shows a revealing level of immaturity.

Sorry

[tramampoline]

Yeah dude, Ani DiFranco has some really thoughtful lyrics with some pretty inspirational music to back them up! She's most definately one of my most highly recommended artists to take a listen to (also, she's kinda cute, but that's another opinion)! I'd like to apologize again for the generalization about rap music I made above. It's just unfair to completely dismiss a whole genre as being uninspired lyrically. That's just poor logic, and unfortuantely, it can be pretty common. And I hate to say that at times, even I fall victim to it. Further proof that humanity is just a bunch of mental patients with day passes and really nice haircuts (usually).

[Nza]

Good lyricists appear in every genre of music, as do bad lyricists. The only difference is a ratio of about 1:200, good to bad:

For every Mos Def (an amazing lyricist), you've got about 200 Puff Daddies.

For every Willie Nelson, you've got about 200 Billy Ray Cyrus's.

For every Ani DiFranco, you've got about 200 Indigo Girls.

For every Bob Dylan, you've got about 200

Now, as lyricists go, there are many amazing ones, past and present. Right now, my favorites are Gift of Gab/Tim Parker (from the rap group Blackaliscious), the already mentioned Ani DiFranco, Beck Hanson (aka Beck), and Jeff Tweedy from Wilco (especially the line "I assassin down the avenue").

Now, if only lyricism was genetic, Jacob Dylan might have something going for him:)

[fiver22]

Originally posted by Metalcore4christ825
I think it all depends on the artist, you have good lyricists in metal, like bruce fitzhugh (living sacrifice), or james hetfield (metallica), then you also have good lyricists in alternative like Billy Corgan(Smashing Pumpkins, Zwan), and Kurt Cobain (Nirvana), however one genre that has NO good lyrics is Rap, can't stand that "music" whatsoever.

You seem like a pretty open-minded person: it's surprising to hear you cast such a broad net. While lots of MTV/radio lyrics are ridiculous (as are all other genres') there are lots of wonderful lyricists in rap/hip-hop. If you're interested at all I'd suggest checking out your local independent record store for things that you've never seen on tv or radio.
As for wondering about deathmetal/grindcore: check out the lyrics for the song Heartwork by Carcass (wonderful lyrics) -a little mainstream for some die hard fans but still great music and great lyrics. It IS a very aggressive musical form so keep that in mind while judging it.
Of course it's all a matter of taste -I can't stand James Hetfield's lyrics (well most of them, anyway).
-522

[crazydave]

speed metal :D

[Nza]

As far as metal bands go, it seems like a lot of them get away with not-very-interesting lyrics (what with the can't-understand-a-word-they're-saying-Cookie-Monster-delivery). I don't know if you could call them "metal" exactly, but Mr. Bungle has some of the most amazing lyrics I can think of. (Note: not just those written by Mike Patton; Trey Spruance and Trevor Dunn, the guitarist and bassist, write a whole lot of the lyrics too).

I particularly dislike James Hetfield's writing style. It's like this:

take a line from a nursery rhyme, add scary words, repeat

I think the majority of songwriters, though, have horrible lyrics. Gwen Stefani, god, every song she writes sounds like it's her first, and she's still 13 years old. Fred Durst sounds like he ate White Castle and shat his lyrics out.

However, I think my absolute, all-time fav lyricist is probably Angelo Moore from Fishbone, with David Byrne and Bjork tying for second.

[spoonless]

In my opinion show tunes tend to have the most perfectly crafted lyrics. Although I do not tend to like them much there are some very talented people writing lyrics on Brodway.

[tramampoline]

Originally posted by Nza

I particularly dislike James Hetfield's writing style. It's like this:

take a line from a nursery rhyme, add scary words, repeat



Sorry, I couldn't help but chuckle at this a little, and I kind of like SOME of Metallica's stuff (not a major fan mind you).

[PuppetMaster]

I like James Hetfields lyrics quite a bit. he's got a very good handle on how to use metaphors IMO. But the definition of good lyrics is different for everyone. I personally think that a lot of punk lyrics are pretty stupid although I like some of the music, but I have friends who think a lot of those same lyrics are amazing and that the lyrics from bands that I listen to suck. To each his own.

It just depends on what you look for in songs. Some people like lyrics that just sound intelligent, even though they may not know what they mean, which seems to be the case with a lot of metal lyrics these days. Most people seem to connect with more realistic lyrics that are about human life. I personally like lyrics that are a little more abstract.

For example, I like how Jon Schaffer from Iced Earth can take a simple/cliche`/old idea and look at it from a different perspective. The song Jack is about Jack the Ripper, a concept that has been done countless times by metal bands, most notably by Judas Priest. But Schaffer looks at it differently. he writes the song from Jack's perspective and he tells why he became what he did. Or on the song Melancholy, which is about the death of Jesus Christ, he writes the song from the point of view of Jesus. But he portrays him as questioning why he has to die for people who do not believe in him. Schaffers lyrics probably wouldn't stand alone as poetry, and he doesn't use a lot of metaphors or anything like that, but just the perspective he writes from makes them good IMO.

It all depends on what you look for in song lyrics. Every genre has great lyricists, and every genre has infinitely more who are unbelievably shitty.