So, does it have to have lyrics to be considered a song?

[Wes_Powell]

Personally, I much prefer instrumental music. But, I'll leave it to you guys.

-wp

[Sam Therapy]

A song? Yes, I'd say so. You wouldn't call Beethoven's 5th a song, would you? A piece of music, a composition, or whatever. But a song must have lyrics, IMO.

I also like instrumental music, but I think I generally prefer music with lyrics. Different types for different moods, I guess.

[mcflytrap]

Sam has a good point. But I'd probably find myself calling a composition a song anyway...just cause I'm dumb. :)

[Lord Lucifer]

yeah I think technically das is right, instrumentals are instrumentals and songs have words.

[Reposki]

Yeah, I figure song(sing, sang)=vocals... But that's just being technical about it.

Here's something I found over at Dictionary.com to support my position on this:




song Pronunciation Key (sông, sng)
n.
Music.
A brief composition written or adapted for singing.
The act or art of singing: broke into song.
A distinctive or characteristic sound made by an animal, such as a bird or an insect.

Poetry; verse.
A lyric poem or ballad.


\Song\ (?; 115), n. [AS. song, sang, fr. singan to sing; akin to D. zang, G. sang, Icel. s["o]ngr, Goeth. sagws. See Sing.] 1. That which is sung or uttered with musical modulations of the voice, whether of a human being or of a bird, insect, etc. ``That most ethereal of all sounds, the song of crickets.'' --Hawthorne.


song

n 1: a short musical composition with words; "a successful musical must have at least three good songs" 2: a distinctive or characteristic sound; "the song of bullets was in the air"; "the song of the wind"; "the wheels sang their song as the train rocketed ahead" 3: the act of singing; "with a shout and a song they marched up to the gates" [syn: strain] 4: the characteristic sound produced by a bird; "a bird will not learn its song unless it hears it at an early age" [syn: birdcall, call, birdsong] 5: a very small sum; "he bought it for a song"



...All sources say songs have lyrics. But, like mcflytrap, if somebody asked me to play a song I wouldn't hesitate to play something instrumental either...

[Kingnome]

So that means if all you write is instrumentals, you're not a songwriter, you're a composer ?

[ninja of love]

Originally posted by Wes_Powell
I'd feel kind of pretentious calling myself a composer.

Oh well.

-wp
Nothing's ever stopped you before.:)

[Roadstar II]

To me, lyrics can sometimes ruin songs. On the other hand, they can make a song. I dont think that a piece of music requires lyrics in order to be a song, but if written or sang well, they can be beneficial.

[Umbra]

What if the vocals in the song/composition/whateveryoucallit are not recognizable as vocals? Is it still a "song" or is it now something between a song and a composition? I do a lot of vocoder stuff and it's not always recognizable as vocals.

[Nza]

What if you are a "composer", but you use the human voice as an instrument? It has no words, so it should be called an "instrumental", but it's using the human voice as an instrument (singing), so is it a "song"?

What if it has words, but no "verse/chorus" thing, like, a poem set to music...is that a "song"?

What about hip-hop...most of y'all probably don't even consider that music to begin with, what do you call a hip-hop "piece"?

There is a fine line between song and sonata, hippy jam and Indian raga. What the f*** ever, it's all music.

[Nza]

Think about it like this:

The Meters "Sissy Strut"...is that a "composition" or a "song"?
Booker T and the MGs "Green Onions"...is that a "composition" or a "song"?
Edgar Winter "Frankenstein"...is that a "composition" or a "song"?

I call everything a song, cause it's only one syllable and faster to say.

:)

[Scheming Demon]

Most posts seem to be arguing over semantics or the definition of song. To me a song is a piece of music, lyrics or not. So a song does not have to have lyrics to be considered a song IMO.

[SomeGuyNamedRob]

Originally posted by das Nichts
Uh, a song is something that is sung. Otherwise, it's an instrumental. Pretty basic stuff...

Ok, what if a song has a solo instrument that would otherwise take the place of a vocal melody?

[Kingnome]

Originally posted by SomeGuyNamedRob


Ok, what if a song has a solo instrument that would otherwise take the place of a vocal melody?

That's called Muzak, elevator music, frozen foods section music, etc....

[Non-Sequitur]

I think technically a song has to have singing, but I consider instrumentals songs as well. I just don't see the distinction as being all that important.

[Kingnome]

Don't you hate it when you come up with what you're sure is a really good instrumental, and then, when people hear it they say, "I think you should write some words".

[SomeGuyNamedRob]

Originally posted by Kingnome
Don't you hate it when you come up with what you're sure is a really good instrumental, and then, when people hear it they say, "I think you should write some words".

If the arrangement is full enough, there really wouldn't be any empty space left for words.

Hell, I've heard lots of songs with lyrics that would sound a whole lot better without the vocal track and left as an instrumental.

[PuppetMaster]

Originally posted by Kingnome
Don't you hate it when you come up with what you're sure is a really good instrumental, and then, when people hear it they say, "I think you should write some words".

take into consideration what kind of people say this and what kind of music they listen to. My guess is it's mostly people that listen to pop/rap or some other type of music that is based predominantly on the singer, instead of rock, metal, punk, whatever, where the guitar tends to be more important

[b alen]

for God's sake, they're all songs. That said....here's some instrumental bands everyone should know about

Don Caballero-can't even explain how cool they are
Dirty Three-guitar, drums and violin. if you ask me the violin in
their music sings better than any person could
Wadsworth-band from Portland, OR

i can't think of any more off the top of my head, i know there are many more. Anyone actually heard of any of these guys???

[Nza]

Originally posted by PuppetMaster


take into consideration what kind of people say this and what kind of music they listen to. My guess is it's mostly people that listen to pop/rap or some other type of music that is based predominantly on the singer, instead of rock, metal, punk, whatever, where the guitar tends to be more important

I hate to sound like a whiny bitch ( ;) ), but you should also take into consideration that not all bands have guitars.

Most people, if they don't hear a guitar in a song, will even attribute another instrument's riff (keyboard, mandolin, whatever) to guitar. I guess nobody thinks about the fact that guitar is only one of many, many instruments that you can have in a band.

However, how many POPULAR bands don't have guitarists? The most recent I can think of was Ben Folds Five (too bad they broke up). :(

[Mr.Talent]

herre is some good progressive instrumental songs.

http://thegregfreymanproject.iuma.com

[Kingnome]

Originally posted by Nza


I hate to sound like a whiny bitch ( ;) ), but how many POPULAR bands don't have guitarists? The most recent I can think of was Ben Folds Five (too bad they broke up). :(

I think you made your point. ;) Both points, actually. ;) ;)

[ninja of love]

Originally posted by Wes_Powell
Interesting. I hadn't checked this thread in about a week and it's still a topic. Cool. Almost 80% feel that a song does not need vocals. I agree. Personally, I don't need it spelled out for me. I much prefer to derive my own thoughts about what the music is saying to having some singer lead me around by the nose.

-wp I forgot. You're above all that.:rolleyes:

[6String Diablo]

I think it all depends really. Like, most of the tracks off a Satch or Vai album can't really be considered songs - they feel more like a long assed solo thrown on top of a guitar riff. Same as a Malmsteen or Stratovarius instrumental. No structure - just an endless guitar solo.

However, things like "In The Hall Of The Mountain King" from Grieg, "Sirius" from Alan Parsons Project, or "Moondance" from Nightwish, are great examples of songs with no words.

So I voted 'no' - it doesn't have to have lyrics to be considered a song. What it needs is a STRUCTURE.

Cheers,
Kev

[JiveJust]

MY GOD PEOPLE ARE STUPID!!! LOOK UP THE DEFINITION OF A SONG!!! IT HAS TO HAVE WORDS TO BE A SONG!!! WHAT THE HELL DO YOU THINK SONGWRITING IS? EVERYONE THAT VOTED FOR "WITHOUT LYRICS" IS A DAMN MORON!!! IDIOTS!!!

[JiveJust]

Pronunciation: 'so[ng]
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Old English sang; akin to Old English singan to sing
Date: before 12th century
1 : the act or art of singing
2 : poetical composition
3 a : a short musical composition of words and music b : a collection of such compositions
4 : a distinctive or characteristic sound or series of sounds (as of a bird or insect)
5 a : a melody for a lyric poem or ballad b : a poem easily set to music
6 a : a habitual or characteristic manner b : a violent, abusive, or noisy reaction <put up quite a song>
7 : a small amount <sold for a song>

[Lurid]

Originally posted by jivejust
MY GOD PEOPLE ARE STUPID!!! LOOK UP THE DEFINITION OF A SONG!!! IT HAS TO HAVE WORDS TO BE A SONG!!! WHAT THE HELL DO YOU THINK SONGWRITING IS? EVERYONE THAT VOTED FOR "WITHOUT LYRICS" IS A DAMN MORON!!! IDIOTS!!!

Calm down, buddy! Don't make me call the nice men in the white coats...:D

[b alen]

Originally posted by jivejust
Pronunciation: 'so[ng]
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Old English sang; akin to Old English singan to sing
Date: before 12th century
1 : the act or art of singing
2 : poetical composition
3 a : a short musical composition of words and music b : a collection of such compositions
4 : a distinctive or characteristic sound or series of sounds (as of a bird or insect)
5 a : a melody for a lyric poem or ballad b : a poem easily set to music
6 a : a habitual or characteristic manner b : a violent, abusive, or noisy reaction <put up quite a song>
7 : a small amount <sold for a song>

Jesus man, it's okay. I think we can all think on our own. i realize it's in the dictionary, but that doesn't mean it won't eventually be modified. After all it is written by humans and not the all knowing gods of vocabulary. I believe 20 years ago it was incorrect to spell Catsup "Ketchup"

Who the hell decided to spell it Catsup in the first place?????

[JiveJust]

Originally posted by b alen


Jesus man, it's okay. I think we can all think on our own. i realize it's in the dictionary, but that doesn't mean it won't eventually be modified. After all it is written by humans and not the all knowing gods of vocabulary. I believe 20 years ago it was incorrect to spell Catsup "Ketchup"

Who the hell decided to spell it Catsup in the first place?????

Not when it comes to publishing royalties. The money from a song comes from the lyrics not the music. This is similar to a poem or a book. Instrumentalswork a bit different. The problem is when a band finally starts making money and they don't understand how that money is made. Pretty soon everyone in the band thinks that they are a songwriter.....even the drummer. :D How a band splits up the money is secondary to how that income is create.

Ketchup and Catsup is trademade issue NOT a spelling issue kinda of like Cat's and Kat'z.

[JiveJust]

Originally posted by Lurid


Calm down, buddy! Don't make me call the nice men in the white coats...:D

:D

Songs must have words. If they do not they are instrumentals or symphonies etc. Let's not act like drummers. ;)

[ninja of love]

Originally posted by Wes_Powell


Yes.

-wp
Please tell me the story of your ego.

[gascap]

Ok...so I'll poke the beast a little more.....

First off, a "song" has to have words AND a melody. To be safe I just call everything a "tune".

BUT..............

what about rap?

[ninja of love]

Originally posted by Wes_Powell


It all began out of modest means...

-wp And?

[ninja of love]

Originally posted by Wes_Powell
Stayed there. I never talk about my own playing except to say I think it sucks. I don't compare shit bands to me. I compare them to good bands.

Where people get off thinking otherwise I have no idea.

-wp
When did it dawn on you that you were right and everyone else was wrong?

[JiveJust]

Originally posted by Wes_Powell
Once I thought I was wrong.I was mistaken.

-wp

You were mistaken when you thought that songs do not need words to be songs. A song by definition is WORDS set to music.

This thread can now be deleted.

[SomeGuyNamedRob]

Originally posted by Wes_Powell
I don't know man. 80% seem to disagree with you.

I'll delete it when I choose. Thanks though.

-wp

You go Wes! You da MAN! :D

[JiveJust]

Originally posted by Wes_Powell
I don't know man. 80% seem to disagree with you.

I'll delete it when I choose. Thanks though.

-wp

Then by default you are the King of the uneducated idiots. Congrats.