Duron, Athlon....which one???

[Basslord1124]

After my final decision on what mobo (Asus A7A266), the question now lies with what processor. My mobo supports either Duron or Athlon processors up to 1.2 GHz and I'll probably shoot for a 1.2. But is there really much difference between the Duron or Athlon performance wise? Not much difference price wise I've seen. Any AMD peeps wish to give me some info or recommendations. Thanks.

[Dell]

If you can afford it the athlon is the faster cpu.

Even better would be the Athlon XP, if budget permits.

Hope this helped.

Dell

[P.Sound]

For audio use, there is a significant difference. I’d question whether you are going the Athlon-C route, which is the newer version running at 266Mhz, or the plain Athlon @ 200Mhz. Also the Duron at 1000 is of a newer design, but in the end, the Athlon is designed very specifically for superior floating point applications (i.e. Plugins and audio stuff).


…these two chips (meaning Athlon vs Duron) are very similar. Both are built on the same 0.18 process. Both use the Socket A form factor, with its 462 pin interface, and both feature the famed K7 core. Both chips use a 100MHz DDR front side bus, with the effective bandwidth of a 200MHz bus. Both have 128K of L1 cache, and both use AMD's enhanced 3DNow! instructions.

Given all these similarities, the list of differences is fairly small. The first is technological: While the T-Bird has 256K of on-chip L2 cache, the Duron is only equipped with 64K. The additional cache on the T-Bird is there to give the high-end chip a performance edge over its value oriented sibling. For similar reasons, the T-bird is available at speeds up to 1.2GHz, while the Duron tops out at 800MHz. The final difference is the obvious one: price. Being the performance line, the T-Birds sell for a premium over the Duron.

Although the T-Bird is available at a lofty 1.2 GHz, many PC freaks go for a couple of steps down from the fastest processor available.

Read the rest at Athlon vs Duron (http://www.tech-report.com/reviews/2000q4/athlon-vs-duron/)


You can also get great and specific CPU and chipset info at Geek.com (http://www.geek.com/procspec/procspec.htm)

You just as well face it, if you’re going to build it, you’ll become a “geek”.

[Styrerra]

Vote for Athlon here

Limited cache on Duron that is all you need to know for starters

[Basslord1124]

Hey thanks for the info P. Sound...hmm should I tell you or not...ok I'll tell you....I just remember I've got that Athlon Duron article saved as a word file on my PC doh!. Of course from looking at it, it didn't appear to help much...but then again I'm new to this. I remember the mobo said something 266mhz FSB (I remember it's something bus, like front side bus, ughh I can't remember) or something like that...don't know if that has anything to do with that or not...I would guess it would but that's just an assumption. And I wouldn't be afraid to be called a geek...although my friend's helping me build since he knows more...but I'm sure I could do a lot of the basics (hook up hard drives, install ram, soundcard, etc.) Just the processor and that 1st boot up is what would scare me. Speaking of geeks, ever watched Beat The Geeks on Comedy Central? Cool game, my mom has got me watching it. :)

Not sure about the XP version dell...lowest I've seen it go was 1.3Ghz or something like that, is that right? The mobo I picked said something for processors up to 1.2...I don't know if something a little over would hurt or not...but regardless 1.2 is a nice number for me...originally I was just going to shoot for a gig but guess it never to hurts to have a little extra :)

Thanks guys, I'm thinking I might go ahead and order the mobo here soon. Got a little bit of cash and figured to at least get one of the big things out of the way. Oh, what's a good brand for computer cases? I've been told to stick with ATX and a 300W to 350W power supply. Which brand is best or does it really matter? Thanks again. Peace.

[rightsaidbob]

I'm working on a 1.4 Ghz Athlon with an ECS K7VZA 3.0 motherboard, and it's no less than spectacular. Go to www.pricewatch.com (http://www.pricewatch.com) for the best prices on everything that can even be remotely associated with computers. You won't get the 266 Mhz FSB unless you use DDR Ram, so if you want that, make sure you get a motherboard that supports DDR. Also make sure you get an AMD approved power supply, the Athlon has a tendency to start doing nifty tricks if the power supply isn't up to snuff. A good heat sing and CPU cooling fan are also highly recommended.

That's all I have to say.

[petefromengland]

Just to widen debate slightly... can anyone shed any light on whether AMD or Intel chips should be used ??? Was thinking of Athlon 1800 but a few people recently have said P4 is much better. Does it make any difference ??? help !

[Styrerra]

Originally posted by Basslord1124:
And I wouldn't be afraid to be called a geek...although my friend's helping me build since he knows more...but I'm sure I could do a lot of the basics (hook up hard drives, install ram, soundcard, etc.) Just the processor and that 1st boot up is what would scare me. Speaking of geeks, ever watched Beat The Geeks on Comedy Central? Cool game, my mom has got me watching it. :)



This is no longer a geek domain ;) only the really stupid ppl don't know about the 'on' button are being left behind. I started having to know this stuff from an office job and it just snowballed after that. I was 'unsatisfied' with just listening to music :D

------------------
Win 98se - 600mhz - 512mbr - VIA chipset with - SBPlatinum

~ Support ingeniuty in music, tune in to your local community radio ~

[This message has been edited by Styrerra (edited February 16, 2002).]

[GretschGuy]

The Athlon is the superior processor. The difference between the Athlon and Duron is very simple, the Duron has a very small L1 cache (on the chip). The Duron is like a Celeron, great for an office workstation but not cut out for audio use.

Also, I would like to comment on the above mentioned "266Mhz" buss speed. AMD uses a double pumped buss to acheive this. I don't know if calling it 266 is truly acurate.

Never the less, the Atlon is a great chip, far less buggy than a P4. I hope this helps!

[ozraves]

you can use a duron 1 gHz or faster for audio but i say why bother given the prices of other more appropriate cpus.

the three cpus for audio are pentium iii, pentium 4 and athlon xp. i'd check the recommended hardware for the software you plan to use before purchasing.

for some reason, logic lists athlon xp as a recommended cpu but doesn't list athlon. interesting...

the mobo you've selected looks very nice to me. you've managed to stay away from the evil via chipsets. also check with the audio card maker you are planning to buy and ask about any known issues with the mobo.

sometimes asus lists that a mobo has a certain upward limit such as 1.2 gHz cpu. you ought to check and see if that is indeed true for this one as i'd recommend a minimum of an amd athlon xp 1700+ at this point in time.


[This message has been edited by ozraves (edited February 16, 2002).]

[FishEye]

Just to widen debate slightly... can anyone shed any light on whether AMD or Intel chips
should be used ??? Was thinking of Athlon 1800 but a few people recently have said P4
is much better. Does it make any difference ??? help !

I have not done a personal comparison, but from my research I think the AMD will perform better than the Intel. The P4 claims higher clock speeds, but they changed the instruction set, so it is getting less work done per clock cycle than the AMD. I hear the Athlon has
a better floating point unit, also.

My next box will run on AMD.

[P.Sound]

Originally posted by petefromengland:
Just to widen debate slightly... can anyone shed any light on whether AMD or Intel chips should be used ??? Was thinking of Athlon 1800 but a few people recently have said P4 is much better. Does it make any difference ??? help !

It's seems to me, that the use of an Athlon over a Pentium was an issue that was truly meaningful maybe 18 to 24 months ago because there were enough problems with heat and in DAW use that one could clearly say, steer away from an AMD chip.

Today however, it more of a chipset issue and the use of the processor is not an issue over using the wrong one, its just which is the better processor for the money? Both the P4 and Athlons work great as far as compatibility. Actually, the same is true for P3, Celron and Duron.

I think the debate should always be there, and the answer will always depend upon the sum of the parts, not just one. They both work, but more often its the chipset that will cause problems (rather than the CPU), and that changes weekly with new drivers and patches.

As you get deep into it, you realize its the package that dictates performance, not any one part. Although one part, can create a significant road-block. This too changes because people are prone to trying to by the latest and fastest, and the manufacturers are prone to releasing things that are no longer truly tested, we are the testers. So often, just a driver or BIOS update fixes incompatibilities. So if you are going to be a tester, then you take your chances and many times, pay the price.

I think you can get equally compelling arguments for using the P4 over the Athlon, and the Athlon over the P4. P4 proponents will argue that more stable motherboards are available because they lack the VIA chipset in many cases. And this is true, as Intel has an extremly close relationship with Microsoft, and they tend to get the inside stuff first and have a more stable coherent platform. They boot faster. And given the operating system is the first layer, this compatibility with the operating system is a big argument in favor of the P4.

On the Athlon side, the reality is the XP suffix appears to be marketing hype for the most part from users who have experienced say a 1600MP vs a 1600XP. But technically, there is a 3-7% increase in performance for the XP. But the real difference is that the "XP" has 20% less power consumption. AMD states that the Athlon is essentially old technology that they are capitalizing on and have a problem in that consumers focus on megahertz ratings rather than performance. They are getting ready to release a new chips that they hope can be based upon a new rating system to level the playing feild. But for now, the Athlon floating point unit is superior to even the fastest version of the P4 based upon the .18 technology (see my comment in a post below which I hope clarifies this). Test after test prove that. Intel, to compete increased the density of the transistors, and upped the core voltage to get the chip to run faster and acheive competitive results. Because of AMD's advantage in the FPU, it typically shines where software demands FPU calcualtions, like that of DAW, Photo and CAD/CAM, etc. On business apps like WORD, Excel, etc., this is a non-issue and Duron and Celron machines work just fine. So on a spec for spec basis, where you are comparing a P4 1.6 to and Athlon 1.6, the Athlon will usually win where FPU calculations are involved.

You will gain far more by taking the $200 state-of-the-art price difference and putting it into better a better mic, converters, more memory, another hard drive (if less than 2), faster hard drive (if less than 7,200) or a motherboard that has the faster buss speeds than you will to by a faster chip (assuming all the other stuff is not in order yet).

[This message has been edited by P.Sound (edited February 18, 2002).]

[Basslord1124]

Originally posted by ozraves:
i'd check the recommended hardware for the software you plan to use before purchasing...

The closest I've done to this is email midiman (getting the Audiophile 2496 for the soundcard) and asked them about recommended mobo's and chipsets. They sent me a list of mobo's and chipsets that, they say, work the best with their soundcard. From that list is where I picked the mobo I plan on getting. As far as software I plan to use, it'll probably be Ntrack and Cool Edit Pro.

the mobo you've selected looks very nice to me. you've managed to stay away from the evil via chipsets. also check with the audio card maker you are planning to buy and ask about any known issues with the mobo.

Hehe, I know, sweet mobo, isn't she :) Originally I was going with the 133 but the 266 wasn't much higher and I'm sure I could use the extra speed (even though I have no idea what FSB is). Actually what's funny is when I contacted Midiman about the soundcard compatibility I mentioned that I heard certain AMD setups did not work well for audio recording (referring to the VIA chipsets although I did not come out and say it was the VIA chipsets) and the irony is one of the boards/chipsets they recommended was a VIA chipset...I figured better to be safe than sorry and stick with something that wasn't a VIA chipset which is why I chose the mobo that I did.

sometimes asus lists that a mobo has a certain upward limit such as 1.2 gHz cpu. you ought to check and see if that is indeed true for this one as i'd recommend a minimum of an amd athlon xp 1700+ at this point in time.


I'll give it a try to see but I just sort of feel a 1.2 is fine. I think for my purposes in audio recording I could probably get by with a much slower processor than a 1.2 but I figured what the hell, might as well have the extra processing power just in case. I figure 20 tracks would be all I'd ever max on. But I'll go ahead and contact asus to see. Thanks.




[This message has been edited by Basslord1124 (edited February 17, 2002).]

[Styrerra]

If you go with the Athlon; your next need for an upgrade (if any) will be further down the line. Think of it that way.

That Athlon XP's I heard do not have the via \ sound problem. I have a via chipset on my 600mhz and I do not have this problem so I guess that's why I would recommend the AMD (from personal experiance) but I have heard of others having problems. But then again I tweaked the heck out of it before I came to NOISE creation~

------------------
Win 98se - 600mhz - 512mbr - SB Platinum - [Advance 5/133E MoBo]Via chipset
10GB 5400RPM(OS and Plug-ins)
80GB 7200RPM on PCI CARD(Audio and setup files)
20GB 5400RPM offline (amendments off 80GB)

~Support independance and ingenuity in music; tune into your local community radio~

[This message has been edited by Styrerra (edited February 17, 2002).]

[P.Sound]

I wanted to mention as an update to my previous post (because I'm not sure I got the message across I wanted), that the new Intel P4's with an "a" designation are up to speed with the Athlon FPU's. These are CPU's built on the 0.13 micron process.

These coupled with a board employing one of the SiS chipsets, is also a very good combination because there is no VIA southbridge, there is actually an improved Sis southbridge called the 961 which has some unique technology to it that suppose to eliminate soem buss bottlenecks. And, compatibility is virtually assured without any VIA chipsets. The 961 is associated with a number of the SiS chipset numbers, but the mainboards employing the 645 & 650 will vary in the amount and style of memory they can use. See SiS (http://www.sis.com/products/chipsets/oa/pentium4/645.htm) for more info.

Several manufacturers make SiS 645/650 northbridge coupled 961 southbridge based P4 boards in the sub $100 range, such as the MSI 645 Ultra (MS-6547 6547-010) P4 supporting DDR 333 @ 400MHz for $73.00. Some are available with RAID as well like the EPOX EP-4SDA+ SiS645 P4 DDR IDE RAID ATA/133 for $99.00. Couple this with a P4 - 1.6a at arund $150, buy a decent video card, some good RAM, disable the audio, and you've got one smokin system that is very future compatible.

With this in mind, I quickly spec'd a system for those wanting to know costs:

PLEXTOR PX-W2410TA-BPS 24x10x40 CD-RW $132.00 Mushkin DDR PC2700=333 512Mb • CL=2.5 $211.00 ANTEC SX635 with 350 Watt $79.00 MSI 645 Ultra (MS-6547-010) P4 DDR 333 $73.00 Pentium 4 1.6A GHz 512K $149.00 MAXTOR 6L020L1 20GB 7200RPM $71.00 MAXTOR 6L060L3 60GB 7200RPM $113.00 MATROX G450 32MB DDR 4X AGP $79.00 Zalman CNP6500SA-CU Cooler w/Grease $59.00 Add a cable, some op software and your in there around $1,050.00

[Nico de Roode]

Intel makes less noise