the process

[cool_E]

We went through Pat Pattison's book which ended
with a summary that outlined a writing process.
A similar process is proposed in the "12 Steps"
thread. I have experimented with this process
and have found it to be quite helpful.

Here's what I propose as an exercise for our
own edification & growth as well as for the
benefit of those who might tune in...

Let's each create a song thread and go through
the process outlined below. By doing this in
public we'll be creating opportunities for dialog
along the way, both about the song and the
process. We'll also be able to see how a lyric
evolves from a basic idea through to a finished
work. We'll be able to experiment with processes
that we haven't used before and see how they work,
or don't work.

If you are game just start a thread indicating
who you are ("cool_E's Song" for example).

Please post all your work in the thread and
be open to discussion & comment from all
observers.

Peace...
==============================
Step 1: Concept

Create a song concept. Basically write, in one
or two sentences, what the song will be about.

Step 2: Object writing

Write, in free form prose, everthing you can think
of that relates to the topic. If there is a scene
envision the scene in detail. Write down associations
possible metaphores, feelings. Try to keep things
"sense bound" but don't stifle your creativity.
The important thing here is to generate some
ideas to explore as you develop the lyric.

Step 3: Worksheet

Pull out key words. Add related words from
a thesaurus. Add rhyming words from your
rhyming dictionary. Include near or slant
rhymes. I've found the rhyming dictionary to
be a wonderful tool for breaking through
those spots where you get stuck.

Step 4: Writing

Put down some lyrical idea. It's ok at this
point if they are not metered well, or that they
don't rhyme. We're trying to put together the
framework of the lyric and the flow of the song.
Make sure the verses set up the title & chorus.
Make sure there is movement throughout the lyric.
Ensure that the chorus does it's job and that
there is good development and flow throughout.
Remember to put key ideas in power positions.
You are building.

At this point you should end up with a hook and
good basics for the various parts of the song. You
should also have decided on the lyric structure,
rhyme scheme, point of view and overall treatment
or approach.

Step 5 - ??: Re-writing

Now that you've gotten this far go back and
evaluate your work. What is good? What is
weak? Is there good flow? Could it be better
if...? Experiment with new ideas. Lose cliches
in favor of original phrases (extracted from the
object writing). Refine the meter. Try other
points of view and structures. Which is most
effective? What about continuity? Clarity?

Step 6: STOP

At some point here you'll get a lyric that you
are happy with. It tells a good story in an
interesting and unique way. It is well crafted
and obviously the work of a professional.
Congratulations & well done!

[ocnor]

That sounds like the way some anal scientist would go about
a song writing experiment. If you are an "artist" then the song
will just flow from you as if turning on an internal radio. The
words should just rush into your head faster than you can write
them down.
It's the same as an artist painting a picture it just sort of comes
together on the canvas without any methodical thinking. The
painter doesn't choose which colors to use ahead of time.



http://artists.iuma.com/IUMA/Bands/Jerry_Ronco/

[John61480]

Well, in some way, people achieve these steps, even though they personally aren't concious about it. I think it is a safe procedure, nothing wrong with that.
I personally do this:

Get lyrics written

Create melody for either chorus or verse

If it is good enough, complete it.

Simple eh? But what I do involves more and probably kinda similiar to the approach stated. The problem most people get stuck on including me, is when your all spent. When songs begin sounding the same as previous songs written. That's when alternating methods come into play. You get a book with different steps and it "helps" get you out of the rut by thinking in a different way.

[BryanMichael]

Pats Book is the BEST I've ever read on the subject and EXTREMELY helpful to the art of crafting songs without stepping on your own style. It's nice that you broke it down like this.

Ocnor-
While I respect your opinion I think that this is the big myth that all people buy into with regard to creativity- ALthough this may be the case with various endeavors and can be a wonderful experience, Creativity doesn't always just pour out of you AND just becuase it DOESN'T at a certain point doesn't make you less of an "artist" - For the record, I worked for the Greater Columbus Arts Council for two years in various teams with 27 other "real" (i.e WORKING and making a living ) artists of various disciplines (I'm an actor, writer, and musician and I work with Video & Film AND music for a living). Sometimes the creativity can flow from people and sometimes it doesn't- But in MANY MANY MANY projects there was LOTS and LOTS of planning, development, preliminary sketches, test paintings, drawings, dialogue re-writes, miniatures and models (for sculptors) etc. etc. etc. that were part of the process, the "bang -zoom lightning" was the rare exception to the creativity, not the rule. The idea is to get the creative side working and stay in that zone-
Try reading Pats book- (Writing Better Lyrics) It's fun!
some others I'd suggest are:
The Artist's Way
Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain

Both are about creativity, The Artists Way is a workbook-
Do you think Michaelangelo just went up and painted the Sistine Chapel without a disciplined process???

B

[ocnor]

I didn't mean to imply that a person in a "Dry Spell'' is any
less "Artistic". To me looking for song writing inspiration in
a book is akin to reading a sexual positions book inspire
me in the bedroom. My inspiration comes from things that
stir my emotions. Then as my emotions build up inside of
me I release them in the form of music which rushes out
of me sometimes faster than I can write it down. This is
the way that I always write so for me it is the rule not the
exception. Music is the sound of what you feel and emotions
are not always logical. This in itself defies the use of a robotic
song writing method.
If you guys provide links to songs that you have written using
your methods I would be happy to listen to them as I hope you
will listen to mine.

P.S.
I really couldn't say about Michealangelo but it sure did take
him a long time to finish.

http://artists.iuma.com/IUMA/Bands/Jerry_Ronco/

[BryanMichael]

Again Ocnor,
I think you are missing the point-
I agree with John61480. Most people are going through this process unconsciously. I can't tell you at what point my songwriting moves from pure "inspiration" into "process" and back again. Cool_E was simply breaking down an excellent book into 12 steps. In general, music itself comes easier to me (more "pure" inspiration) than lyrics do, because I feel I need to "craft" them into something, which is why I make a better arranger/ sideman than frontman. THere is nothing "robotic" about going through the process outlined in Cool_E 's post. In fact you OBVIOUSLY went through that process in crafting your own songs, but maybe quicker and less academically than some (and more unconciously)-I mean you had to pick a topic, right?
You had to develop some ideas about it...right?
I listened to your stuff online and it isn't bad- it sounds like Rush and Blue Oyster Cult meet Queensrÿche and I mean that in a positive way, but your songs seem to "suffer" from the same things that those bands often do (or did) They revolve around a point instead of progressing on a line (which is a fine way to write, but sometimes leaves people cold-I used to be a HUGE Rush fan, but as I matured I needed to feel some kind of communication was taking place between me and the singer- Rush (Neil) always tended to "objectify" things and describe them...which is fine, but is simply observation and not really interesting after a certain point. I began to appreciate the subtle brilliance of people like Springsteen that can describe an ordinary day and infuse it with two key phases that leave you aching).

Where this process really shines is when you get stuck or need to progress and say something different. Object writing is a GREAT exercise for ANY creative person (like journaling) that can get the thoughts out so they can be played with without worrying about getting lost. Object writing is "lightning" time- the thoughts come faster than you can put them down. Crafting the lyric comes out of that. Designers work that way as well, they will pull a bunch of images from catalogs, magazines, photos, etc. that CONVEY the message they are goin gfor with their product / design (a friend of mine is an industrial designer) and use them for inspiration (what part of this says "sleek" ? are questions they ask themselves...)
Anyway- I wish I had an mp3 to direct you to as an example of my own songwriting, but I don't have anything on the web or finished here (I have a box of cassettes somewhere! :mad: )
But I have a couple of places to direct you and I can post a lyric-
you tell me if I wrote it in 5 minutes of pure inspiration or through a "process"-

Me playing bass on this track / album (Blue Rose records- Germany)-
www.fredharing.com

I wrote the closing credits song for this film:

http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?cgiurl=http%3A%2F%2Fcgi.ebay.com%2Fws%2 F&krd=1&from=R8&MfcISAPICommand=GetResult&ht=1&SortProperty=MetaEndSort&query=bullethead
ww

OR:
http://s1.amazon.com/exec/varzea/search-handle-url/103-9620677-1193462?ix=fixed-price&rank=%2Dbfp&fqp=org-unit-id%014%02site-org-unit-id%014%02status%01open%02keywords%01bullethead&nsp=spt%011&sz=50&pg=1&full-results=1

I sing on the soundtrack for this film which was on the independent film channel last month "Breaking Up with Maggie Moore"






Flame away-
B

[ocnor]

First I'd like to say I don't mean to sound like I am flamming
anyone. When you compare my music to those bands I
take that as a great compliment. My point was that when
I write I never pick a topic or develop ideas. The song just
seems to flow from my mind as if it were already written.
Maybe it's just my semi-abstract style that dictates writting
this way.
I guess that I understand why you might use the "method"
for writting "Springsteen" types of songs. I find those types
of songs very boring and "ordinary" but that is the appeal
to some people. They don't want to have to think about the
song's meaning. They want the meaning to be self-explanitory.
I think this is due to the fact that in this age of technology,
peoples attention spans are getting shorter. They don't take
the time like we did back in the 70's to sit and listen to an
album side to side and then contemplate the meaning.
Lyrics from bands such as Pink Floyd seem to strike a chord
differently in each person. This is what makes semi-abstract
writting much more appealing to me than the "Sprigsteen"
style.


http://artists.iuma.com/IUMA/Bands/Jerry_Ronco/

[BryanMichael]

Hmmm......
Well,
again-
I was a huge Rush Fan and I understand your points,
but I don't think it has anything to do with attention span-
Springsteen was popular in the 70's as well-
and I don't find your lyrics "abstract" so much as observational.
To say you didn't "pick a topic" seems strange to me since your songs ARE about something. It's not like I conciously sit down with these "12 steps" in front of me and say "hey I'm going to write a song...so let's see, step one...." But I'm sure it could be a good motivator to do it that way- as stated, it's a way to get your brain mocing from one side to the other so you CAN be in that "creative zone". Whe I was younger, I spent alot more time in that creative zone and I would write songs in about 20 minutes (sometimes) but as I got older and life got more complicated, I needed ways to shift my brain from left to right brain thinking- somtimes it's just playing guitar for an hour, sometimes it's listening to other music, somtimes it's sitting down and writing everything as it pours out of my head (like object writing)....
Like I said, you are following a process in your head whether you are aware of it or not- it's great that it is so "transparent" for you-
but without flaming you either, your lyrics don't sound any "more inspired" or "abstract" than a guy with a rhyming dictionary and a thesaurus sitting in front of him. It's very difficult to judge a song by lyrical content alone, and I admire that you put your stuff on the web- ery high quality demo recordings by the way (although a bit too overproduced ;) but that's another field altogether from songwriting) and these are just my opinions- the reason I got "bored" with lyrics by bands such as Rush is because they describe everything from a distance (observational) and not from a perspective. When songwirters put themselves in the song, they bring the audience into the song- I do understand WHY you may find the "Springsteen" song styles "boring and ordinary" because they are a more traditional style- but as I stated before, as I matured I began to seek out those personal connections and things like Rush didn't provide them. I don't know how old you are and I'm not trying to suggest that you are somehow "immature" so please don't take it that way, but like i stated before, I don't find much in your lyrics or songwriting that seems so out of the ordinary either, you have relatively traditional song structures and relatively prog-rock cliche lyrics..although well done for the style.
peace,
B

[ocnor]

Ok now that makes more sense. I thought you were saying
that you sit down with the 12 steps in front of you to write
a song. That's why I made the "scientist" comment in my
earlier post. I would never make it through step 1 because
I never know what the song is about until I'm done. You are
right I'm sure that I do have some sort of process that is
transparent to me. Being only 42 years old I guess that I
have not grow out of listening to the more cerebral type
of music like Rush. I like the "observational" type of lyrics
as you put it because often when you step back from a
situation you can see things more clearly. I hated Springsteen
even back in the 70's . He sings like he has a noose around his
neck. I was more into Led Zep,Styx,Floyd,and Black Sabbath.
As for my lyrics I never claimed that I was great just that my
system is different. Those 2 "overproduced" demos are my
first attempt at writing,performing and recording all of the
parts myself on my home computer. I hope to do even better
on the next ones.

http://artists.iuma.com/IUMA/Bands/Jerry_Ronco/

[BryanMichael]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by ocnor
[B] He sings like he has a noose around his
neck. [QUOTE]

That's it!!
That's the sound!

I love that description man-
dead on.
I didn' mean "mature" as in age, I meant as a songwriter.
I'm 32 so ya got ten years on me.
-B

[cool_E]

oncor, do you practice playing your instrument or do the
notes just flow out from you?

this is supposed to be an exercise. Think of it like forcing
yourself to play 8 different scales everyday to make your
lead work shine. I don't go through the steps rigorously
with every song but I have found that forcing myself to
write has made me a better writer. I've also found that
doing these exercises from time to time helps to make
me more conscience of how to get good results fast.
I've also gotten lots of inspiration (read new song ideas)
from working on exercises.

most people are just too lazy to actually want to WORK
at being a good writer.

[ocnor]

Well pretty much the notes just flow. I play by ear and have had
no formal training. After playing for more than 25 years I play by
"Feel". I can play chords and scales all day long but if you asked
me the names of anything other than basic chords I wouldn't be
able to tell you. When I write I do it just as informally. It's kind of
like going for a drive and not knowing where you are going until
you get there. When you drive a car most of your actions are
done unconsciously because you have done it so many times.
I'm not trying to cut down your "process" If it works for you then
that's great. I'm just saying that it seems alien to me as I try not
use the thinking part of my brain when I write. This lets my artistic
nature take over so the music can "Flow"


http://artists.iuma.com/IUMA/Bands/Jerry_Ronco/

[cool_E]

I can appreciate that. I try to let things flow as well.
What I'm trying to get to is the notion that to become
better requires work. Do you practice with the instrument
you play? How many hours per day? How do you practice?
Without many hours/days/weeks/years of practice would
you be a competent musician?

Now ask the same questions with respect to writing.

It seems to me that many people seem to think that
opening their mouths and speaking is about as close
to practicing the discipline of writing that they ever
get.

I wonder if we asked some successful songwriters
how many hours a day they are working at writing
what answers we'd get? Perhaps I'd be surprised
to hear that some have the writing gene and brilliance
simply tumbles through their fingers and onto the
page. They crank out hit after hit without even a single
re-write. If that's true then I don't have a hope.