MixWiz and Aux Fed Subs

[RoadRanger]

I've been using a MixWiz and "turned on" the aux 6 to mono out option to run aux fed subs. Only problem is I lose two channels as I can no longer use a stereo aux return for the break music :(. I'd also like to be able to use a talkback mic without giving up one of the 16 channels - but that I can use an aux return for with a small mic preamp. Anyways how do you all deal with these issues using aux fed subs on a MixWiz? What do you all use for a crossover frequency? I was using 80Hz so that the vocals and guitars wouldn't be "missing" their lowest possible notes. BTW using aux fed subs really helps with wind "rumble" outside, especially when you have 5-6 open vocal mics - I didn't have to get the "Mic Condoms" out yesterday :lol:.

[agedhorse]

The crossover frequency will depend on the speakers you are using, and the relative power bandwidth matching between the subs and everything else.

[RoadRanger]

The crossover frequency will depend on the speakers you are using, and the relative power bandwidth matching between the subs and everything else.Don't you "lose" everything below the crossover frequency on those channels that aren't put into the subs? I would normally cross over at 125Hz but wouldn't that cut everything below 125Hz out of the vocals and guitars? This is one issue with aux fed subs I've never seen addressed...

[dboomer]

I would normally cross over at 125Hz but wouldn't that cut everything below 125Hz out of the vocals and guitars?

Not "everything". A crossover is not a "stop" but the point where it rolls off and the lower speaker rolls in. There is no one way only to do this. The higher you cross (well you don't actually crossover with Aux subs) them more control from unintended wash you'll get but at the cost of some lows to the other sources. In my book there is no need for flat to 80 Hz on a vocal channel and while a guitar's fundemental is close to 80 Hz it is the first harmonic that gives a guitar it's timbre.

So try it both ways (or something in between) and just pick out what appeals to you.

[agedhorse]

Talkback mic is a non-issue, I wouldn't worry about any of this in subs anyway.

If your aux returns won't allow signal routing to aux 6, then that's a tradeoff you need to make. If I am short on channels, I return my playback music in mono to a single channel anyway. In fact, generally I L+R mono my playback channels anyway because sometimes there are surprises on a CD that I want to be sure come out over both channels.

[RoadRanger]

Talkback mic is a non-issue, I wouldn't worry about any of this in subs anyway.Sorry if I didn't make it clear that this was an unrelated "issue" I was asking about. Obviously it shouldn't be in the subs but I was wondering how other folks connect a talkback mic to a MixWiz without giving up one of the 16 channels :(.

[RoadRanger]

... sometimes there are surprises on a CD ...???

[RoadRanger]

In my book there is no need for flat to 80 Hz on a vocal channel and while a guitar's fundemental is close to 80 Hz it is the first harmonic that gives a guitar it's timbre.So, what crossover frequency would you use assuming I'm not "speaker limited"? In reality the system with the MixWiz I'm using is somewhere between 2x and 4x shy on the subs (Mains rated at 800wrms total, subs rated at 400wrms total) so crossing over as low as possible to limit the power to the subs is important and maybe 80Hz (frequency of the channel HPF's) would be the proper choice?

[agedhorse]

Unexpected surprises on CDs are things like one channel missing or vocals on one channel and music or trax on the other channel.

Where you are limited in output on one band, then shifting the crossover so as more power goes to the other band will help with performance (mostly). It's importantthat you are not speaker limited in the other band of course or you are just shifting your problem around.

[Dookietwo]

Don't you "lose" everything below the crossover frequency on those channels that aren't put into the subs? I would normally cross over at 125Hz but wouldn't that cut everything below 125Hz out of the vocals and guitars? This is one issue with aux fed subs I've never seen addressed...

Its up to you if you want 125hz and below from each channel feeding the sub. Think of it as a post fade monitor send but to the low freq section of a crossover. If you set it up so your channel Aux send is at unity for the correct mid/high to sub blend then all you have to do is turn it up to unity or all the way down on the channel. At unity it is the same as a normal crossover. As others have stated you may not need allot below 100hz or so on the vocals,snare,first tom etc. I like aux fed subs with a 80hz crossover point. But higher will work. You could always turn up the aux send a little and see if you like the results.

I did an outside show today for David Mallett.
http://www.davidmallett.com/
Because of the wind today I ended up using the 18db per octave sweepable low cut on most inputs at 200hz. Sounded fine. Still I was glad the bass had a DI on it:thu: . But the sound was good even for a windy day. Try it and see if aux subs work for you. Some like it some don't.

Dookietwo

[Shaster]

Late night/morning but I'll try to tackle the CD issue.

Although I've had no real need to use the aux returns on the MixWiz, I have had to use aux returns as an emergency channel(s) on other boards. If I'm using aux 1 and aux 2 for monitor sends, I can normally still use aux returns 1 and 2 for emergency "ins".

Using the Aux 6 fader might change this for aux 5 & 6 but you should still have access to other "open" aux returns. I'm still a bit foggy but I hope this makes sense.

Next.... I've used aux fed subs where the tops were crossed over, but the powered subs were only crossed over by their internal xover. I've also crossed over both the tops (one Driverack channel) and the aux signal (the other Driverack channel).

At present I'm back to running stereo (nothing panned). I've found that at the relatively lower volumes I run at, and crossing over at 90hz, vocals... in my subs aren't much of an issue BUT I'm not usually running at "Rock" volumes. No doubt, your mileage will vary.

[6Imzadi]

I run my aux fed sub through aux 6 as well. I cross at approx. 110hz. That's what sounds the best for my subs.

I then cross the tops at 135hz. I don't miss the little space of "missing" frequencies at all.

I never put the vocals in the subs. I don't want the rumble from the vocal mics in the subs wasting the power.

My mixer has a CD input that when a button is pressed, cuts off the signal from all the channels and subgroups and instead routes the CD directly to the main out. I don't use that because I sometimes have announcements that need to be made. I just manually "duck" the break music while the announcement is made. But both can be on at the same time if the CD is in a couple of channels.

[Unalaska]

First off I'm not using any aux fed sub getups in any of of my systems. I like running L/R from FOH, driverack in the amp rack and let the processing take care of system (not room) EQ and crossover delay etc. Aux fed subs may work for some people but in my systems I don't find a need to clear up the bottom end at all. That's my situation and YMMV.

Road Ranger, for the benifit of me and others not knowing, what is the crossover/amp/speaker combination you're using. And what levels are they at?

[RoadRanger]

First off I'm not using any aux fed sub getups in any of of my systems. I like running L/R from FOH, driverack in the amp rack and let the processing take care of system (not room) EQ and crossover delay etc. Aux fed subs may work for some people but in my systems I don't find a need to clear up the bottom end at all. That's my situation and YMMV.I'm "exploring" it:
1) Because I can :)
2) Reduces wind noise outdoors
3) Severe lack of subs
Road Ranger, for the benefit of me and others not knowing, what is the crossover/amp/speaker combination you're using. And what levels are they at?This particular system is mostly owned by a band I'm mixing for but I drew the line at their "modded" EV Eliminator i mains (really sound messed up) so am using my Behringer B412DSP's with their pair of Peavey PV118's run in stereo off an RMX2450 set full gain. To get the levels to "match" I've got the Behringers turned down maybe 6dB from where I normally set them and the low outputs on the Behringer CX3400 crossover all the way up +6dB. Then I'm still running the mono (aux6) output of the MixWiz +10dB over the L&R faders. I really need to spend some time with a signal generator and meter to find out why the gain structure seems completely whack - I can't really believe the subs need that much more drive than the mains. Outdoors I'm not seeing the clip limiters "flash" on the sub amp even though I'm not really babying them - I cluster them on one side and they seem to couple nicely. If (when?) the PV118's fry we'll reload the cabs with something that is rated at more than the present 200w drivers - the band says they are OK with me blowing them if it happens :lol:. The RMX2450 is rated at 500w/ch into them which is more than their program rating even :eek:!