Anyone using MIDI guitar?

[Anderton]

I dunno...used to use it a lot back in the late 80s, when hard disk recording wasn't really happening yet, so you couldn't record guitar audio very easily. But lately, I'm finding that processed guitar (whether Variax or Dark Fire) is a lot more satisfying and responsive. Anyone really into MIDI guitar? How do you use it?

[aliensporebomb]

I have the capability to do it, but haven't as yet done it.

Back in 1982 I had a full blown Roland GR system and after I sold that
in 1988 I used the intervening years to learn to play real keyboards.

But I might give it a shot, always wanted to control my favorite softsynths
from my guitar itself.

[guitarhelper]

I use Midi Guitar quite alot. Mostly home recording. I also use it to input notes into Sibelius for handouts for teaching, etc.
Axon Ax-50 with a Brian Moore MC1p.13 into Logic on a Macbook. I've using midi guitar for awhile. Since early/mid 90's.

Plan on using Mainstage with Guitar Rig and instrument plugins with the Axon for a live setup.

Brian
www.guitarhelper.net

[slight-return]

I don't anymore (though I still have a hex system in a Godin)

I used to in the 24 pin days GR-700, Ibanez MC-1, etc

funny thing on that - since classical guitar was my native and used a lot of "clean" techniques (where incidental sounds are minimized and notes are fully articulated not a value judgement, "dirty" style are just as valid, and not any easier - in many ways, I think control over those 'incidental sounds' can be harder)the early pitch-to-glitch work pretty OK for me (don't get me wrong, it still glitched at times)

As far as a sound production system, I eventually abandoned it. Not just because of poor tracking.
One thing I've noticed about "tracking" complaints of some of those earlier systems.
There were certainly tracking problems (both glitching and latency), but sometimes when guys complained about "tracking", well the pitch identification was working OK, but a lot of the other timbre information gets scrubbed - guitarists (esp, "dirty" guitarists) get used to producing a lot of sounds that are easily broken down to discrete parameters (half damped notes, timbre variation from changing how a note is plucked and fingered, etc) and that information would just get tossed. So the note would sound, but it could feel removed from the player
(a common trick was to mix in a little std guitar signal in, even if you were going for a fully "synth" sound)

I kind of went the way of (hex) processing -- I mean much of classic (subtractive style) synthesis really is processing of the oscillators anyway.
The old GR-100 kind of that approach
and even the GR-300 was like that with the hex fuzz in most of the G series guitars and the onboard tracking oscillators were kinda sorta a type of signal processor (the control was an audio signal NOT an abstracted control signal) --sorta kinda like a trad flip-flop octave divider

the VG-8 series stuff was a (radical) update of that sort of philosophy. I was hoping for more toward the HRM than the guitar modelling out of those, it seemed like they even dumped some of the HRM in the VG-88.


I never really used my MIDI stuff for transcription, though perhaps that would have been a better area to use those early system.
Though maybe I should revisit the technology

[Nik]

Been using MIDIguitar for about 20 years. Originally a Roland G303 guitar into a GM70 guitar to MIDI converter. Then a Yamaha G50 for a few months. Now Axon products driven by a Godin LGXT.

Live, I've played bass and keybord parts both layered with the natural guitar sound and alone. Including Sax and Hammond solos and using the Axon's arpegiator to generate bass lines on the fly.

In my little bedroom studio I use it as a featured instrument and also for programming sequences.

Latency and feel were a problem i the early days, but after so many years and with the fast tracking of the Axon, I just pick it up and play.

[daku]

I've been eyeing the new Sonuus G2M ($100)

translates your electric guitar to mono-phonic midi and could control soft synths

I am looking for stand alone sound modules that would provide strings or organs tones for my live rig but am woefully ignorant of available options

[slight-return]

One thing that concerns me about the monophonic solutions (and this problem dates back...trying to attack the problem monophonically isn't new)

is that guitar tends to have a lot of, even inadvertent polyphony -- one of the classic areas where the mono systems (the G2M I haven't tried) is string crossing -- where, esp if playing in a legato style you can have "overlap" (of two strings ringing) as you change strings, so it can require some change n technique which can be really annoying to some)

for your specific application, I am concerned that a monophonic solution might be limiting with things like organ patches (where you might find yourself really wanting to do chords)

eh, just something to consider - nothing set in stone there

[girevik]

Animal Collective already beat me to it, but I'm still going to try plugging the MIDI output of my VG-99 into the MIDI IN of my Korg M3 while it's running a KARMA combi/program and see what happens.

Generally, I've been more satisfied with getting various tones from audio processing rather than MIDI guitar. I am however interested in exploring interactive music making with a generative program like KARMA receiving MIDI input from the guitar.

[bdegrande]

Parker MIDIFly. I like it for its simplicity, the conversion is done on the guitar itself, so the output is a normal 5 pin MIDI and not the 13 pin. The company that made the electronics went out of business, though.

I also prefer the Variax and use it far more often.

[strings&things]

I've been eyeing the new Sonuus G2M ($100)



+1

this device appeals to me, also ..... it's small, compact .... and no special guitar is needed .... no modifications needed to the guitar .....

[aliensporebomb]

I don't anymore (though I still have a hex system in a Godin)

I used to in the 24 pin days GR-700, Ibanez MC-1, etc

funny thing on that - since classical guitar was my native and used a lot of "clean" techniques (where incidental sounds are minimized and notes are fully articulated not a value judgement, "dirty" style are just as valid, and not any easier - in many ways, I think control over those 'incidental sounds' can be harder)the early pitch-to-glitch work pretty OK for me (don't get me wrong, it still glitched at times)

As far as a sound production system, I eventually abandoned it. Not just because of poor tracking.
One thing I've noticed about "tracking" complaints of some of those earlier systems.
There were certainly tracking problems (both glitching and latency), but sometimes when guys complained about "tracking", well the pitch identification was working OK, but a lot of the other timbre information gets scrubbed - guitarists (esp, "dirty" guitarists) get used to producing a lot of sounds that are easily broken down to discrete parameters (half damped notes, timbre variation from changing how a note is plucked and fingered, etc) and that information would just get tossed. So the note would sound, but it could feel removed from the player
(a common trick was to mix in a little std guitar signal in, even if you were going for a fully "synth" sound)

I kind of went the way of (hex) processing -- I mean much of classic (subtractive style) synthesis really is processing of the oscillators anyway.
The old GR-100 kind of that approach
and even the GR-300 was like that with the hex fuzz in most of the G series guitars and the onboard tracking oscillators were kinda sorta a type of signal processor (the control was an audio signal NOT an abstracted control signal) --sorta kinda like a trad flip-flop octave divider

the VG-8 series stuff was a (radical) update of that sort of philosophy. I was hoping for more toward the HRM than the guitar modelling out of those, it seemed like they even dumped some of the HRM in the VG-88.


I never really used my MIDI stuff for transcription, though perhaps that would have been a better area to use those early system.
Though maybe I should revisit the technology

Yeah, the biggest thing I missed about my old GR100 module is the hexfuzz and I hear at least one preset in the VG99 that's a total re-do of my old
hex-fuzz sound. Really happy about that one because an old tune some friends and I did relied on that sound and the last remaining tape got
eaten so I can redo that particular track if necessary.

The nicest side effect of the old pitch-to-voltage days though (I had an early electro-harmonix guitar synth as well as the GR system) was
that my technique got a lot cleaner. It had to!

[doug osborne]

Roland GR-09 (fine/bad '80s sounds, good tracking with internal sounds)
GK-2 (currently on ES-340)
Roland GI-20 - MIDI to computer (much faster than GR-09)
Graphtech Hexpander system, waiting to finish tele project.

I used this to some extent back in the day, but my life got turned upside down and this was the last gear to be resurrected.

I tracked some guitar last night with the mag pickups into Guitar Rig 3, doubled with some synth sounds from Rapture and V-Sampler. It's great to create fantasy sounds with precise doubling of effected guitar and synth.

I downloaded the demos of NI's Kontakt 3 and Even Harmonic's GTAK Kontakt script. This is a match made in heaven for MIDI guitarists - the script makes all the Kontakt sounds come alive. The GTAK programmer has done his homework. Now I have to get the full versions of Kontkt and GTAK. $$$. :-(

MIDI guitar, as has been said, is a completely different instrument than either a guitar or a keyboard, and different technique has to be developed. But it's not that hard, and it is rewarding.

[Anderton]

I've been eyeing the new Sonuus G2M ($100)


I have one here. For the price, you can't beat it - just don't expect miracles. As with all guitar-to-MIDI converters your technique has to be very clean. But if all you want to do is lay down a quick single-note solo or bass line, that's probably the simplest/easiest way to go.

[Hard Truth]

I have the Sonuus and agree with Anderton's asessment. I'll start a thread on it with more info.

[gtrbass]

Live, I use a Godin w/ RMC system into an Axon AX100 mkII, driving an E-MU Vintage Pro (expanded with the B-3, Extreme Lead, and Sounds of the ZR ROM's).

This is quite a formidable live rig. I also play keys, but Live it is quite cool to have keyboard sounds blended in, but no keyboard onstage.

[jimbles]

Another Godin/Axon user here... Really need to have more of a fiddle around and maybe get some soft synths on the go (anyone know of any good open source ones???). At the moment I mostly just use it for pads and stuff, but ould like to delve more deeply into the sorta stuff you see Burr Johnson doing in the demo videos...

[Anderton]

The best MIDI guitar I ever played in terms of tracking was the Beetle Quantar, which squirted an ultrasonic signal down the neck and measured the reflection time to where your finger was. Brilliant. Yamaha used the same technology in the G10 (affectionately known as the "MIDI DustBuster" owing to its shape) and it was almost as good. Apparently, though, there were two big problems:

1. People couldn't stand having to use all "G" strings (a necessary part of the technology - you couldn't use wound strings). The strings were just there to provide a place to fret, so the ultrasonic detectors could do their thing.
2. Because of that, you couldn't layer guitar parts with MIDI sounds.

It would be nice if someone resurrected this technology, though...

[kenact]

I use a Godin LGXT with a Roland GR-20. Typically run the synth out to the pa and run the guitar out to a Fender Twin. I also record using a GI-20 into Cubase4.

Live, you can't really strum for most of the instruments. Have you ever heard anyone try to strum a sax? It ain't pretty. :) But you can strum chords for some of the string and organ patches. You can also pick chords for a lot of the other patches. Finger picking some of the pianos can be terrific.

It does take some time to get used to it and you do have to adjust your style, but it opens up a slew of new instruments to the player. I love it.

[germanicus2112]

I dunno...used to use it a lot back in the late 80s, when hard disk recording wasn't really happening yet, so you couldn't record guitar audio very easily. But lately, I'm finding that processed guitar (whether Variax or Dark Fire) is a lot more satisfying and responsive. Anyone really into MIDI guitar? How do you use it?

I use midi and modelling guitars quite often.
My rig is centered around Rolands vg99 system, a laptop or gr33, an rc50 and a traynor k4 keyboard amp. I drive the vg99 with a Godin LGXT and a few Variax's (600 and the 700 acoustic) equipped with gk systems.

The vg99 is incredible versatile. What many fail to realize is that its a rather great computer interface with extremely low latency. I use it live with a laptop to drive softsynths (Gmedia's M-tron) and also to record directly using the USB.

I also use a roland gr33 (as a sound module, I let the 99 do the actual conversion) live sometimes instead of the laptop if im more nervous about bringing a laptop to a certain gig.

[Valtyr]

I have a Line 6 Variax with a Roland GK Midi Pickup installed. I run the Variax through a POD XTL and a Roland GR-33.

I am mostly focused on home recording and love the versatility of this setup. I tend to use it for cleaner tones or adding synth parts to my recordings.

I prefer a more conventional rig for overdriven/distorted guitar leads.

[ggm1960]

It may have been 10 years ago (at the same time I'd built a 400Mhz pentium 2 system) I bought some cheapo guitar to midi type converter. I recall it had the Fender name attached to it and it was rather proprietary in that it didn't do midi out but had to be connected to a box that then connected to the computer.

It worked but it really was crap with poor tracking. It doesn't seem to be around anymore and must have gotten thrown out.

I haven't mic-ed an amp for recording in a long time. I'd used my Digitech RP2000 to record guitar for a long while. Now I typically use my Line 6 KB37 (POD Farm) and after buying a new Digitech GSP1101/Control 2 system I'm not even using an amp for live gigs anymore, yeah!

As far as converting guitar to midi, however, I've never had much desire or reason to do that because I'm pretty comfortable doing any of that with my keyboards.

[Karma1]

I've been into this kind of thing for a long time. I started in the mid 90's with a Casio PG 380 midi guitar synth - a Strat-style guitar with built-in synth module and midi out. A very cool instrument which I just recently sold. After that I got a Roland GR50, then a GR30, and now use a GR33. About two months ago I got a Roland VG-99, which I really love so far. I trigger them with a Fender Roland-ready Strat w/ Lace Sensors, or a modded-out PRS Santana SE with Sustainiac, GK2A, Duncan humbucker with 3 way switching, etc. I've also got about a dozen synths and modules that I can midi out to including the Korg M3, Roland V-Synth, and others. Lots of trippy effects too like the M Audio Black Box w/ Adrenalinn, SMMH, Lexicon Vortex, Kaoss Pad, Ebow, etc.

I use them all for recording and performing ambient electronic/ new age music mainly, although one of the bands I play in is more rock/funk oriented. For samples of my music:
www.myspace.com/michaeldiamondmusic

http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/diamondsound/PRS.jpg

[stratovarious]

Craig I think this forum is a great idea. While I don't expect it to have the same traffic as the other guitar forums it's definitely focused on my current interests.
I just bought a GR-20 and I'm still in the learning stages. I know it's gotten some bad reviews, but it seems pretty cool to me. I like the option of going straight into the DAW with the "line out" or driving a VST with MIDI out.

[IamBurnout]

I have a Casio MG510.

The guitar part is much nicer than the MIDI, but at least it has a real MIDI out.

Usually it goes into an old Roland MT-32.

[aliensporebomb]

Been experimenting this weekend:

My Soloist SL2 with GK3.
into GK99 + FC300 + Mesa StuPre + Lexicon Vortex + TC G Sharp
into various softsynths and a Yamaha CS1X synthesizer.

Had my guitar set-up like this:

-Low E - bass synth
-A growly kind of synth
-D sampled reverb piano
-G sampled steel pans
-B lush strings
-E sampled boys choir

I sounded like the ABC Afterschool Special soundtrack orchestra but I must admit layering this
with my VG99 sounds + my magnetic and piezo pickup sounds gave me a hugely layered sound.

Tracking wasn't really a problem at all.

[girevik]

Anybody using fretless guitar with MIDI?

I had a Fernandes Fretless with fretlines and a Roland pickup. The problem I had with a Roland GI-20 was if I turned off Pitch Bend and stopped the string even just a tiny flat compared to the A line, the GI-20 sent out the MIDI Note Number for Ab, even though the stopped note's pitch was much closer to A!

[Nik]

Anybody using fretless guitar with MIDI?

I had a Fernandes Fretless with fretlines and a Roland pickup. The problem I had with a Roland GI-20 was if I turned off Pitch Bend and stopped the string even just a tiny flat compared to the A line, the GI-20 sent out the MIDI Note Number for Ab, even though the stopped note's pitch was much closer to A!

So tune the guitar sharp! :poke:

[girevik]

So tune the guitar sharp! :poke:

Cool! Then I can poke your eye out with it! :lol:

[aliensporebomb]

This is what I'm using:

http://pod.ath.cx/vg99/guitarincase.JPG

I may go for those Ghost setups for some of my other guitars.

[drmaybe]

I've been using a Godin LGXT with a Roland GR-30 on the floor for years (this replaced my Casio MG midi guitar, which, while pretty revolutionary in its day, at least in bang for the buck, was a nightmare of poor tracking). Although I occasionally use the midi sounds alone (flute-like timbres seem to work well for me), most of the time I'm blending the guitar with the midi. Even though the Godin tracks exceptionally well, there are the occasional slight glitches, but they tend to be unnoticeable when the guitar sound is blended in.

I've found the combination of clean, sustained leads with string pads underneath to be a real winner, and the string pads sound pretty good when chording as well.

[usrsbin]

As follows:

A Godin XTSA, hooked up to:

Roland US-20, from which the "A" channel goes to -

Roland GR-1/often on #28, a blank MIDI channel which then goes directly to a UNO MIDI Interface hooked up to some form of a Mac running Garage Band with the plethora of custom patches I've created in there

"B" Channel goes to -
Roland GI-20, which is connected to a
Roland XV-2020 ...

I try to avoid using any of the MIDI to emulate existing instruments, though I sometimes will slip in a little violin or cello for monophonic lines.

I take the GR-1's "Guitar Out" to an A/B switch, with "Both" selected and run that to a stereo volume pedal, which then goes to my guitar-processor rack.

[johndaly]

I have two Godins that I use with a GR-33, and that gives me some guitar-ish tools.
Let me explain.
First of all, I'm a guitarist, pure and simple. Since I heard ELP and Yes for the first time, I've been fascinated by synthesis; it has led to a career in computer networking and a lot of work in the music field with electronic music production and sound design. But, as a colleague told me a while ago, even when I use synthesizers, I haven't lost the essential GUITARNESS of it all; I've always been a lousy keyboard player, and I don't try to be. So when I'm playing a flute patch, I try to articulate it as a flute; same with horns or strings. My favorite patches, though, are the ones that either enhance the guitar (a chorused sawtooth solo tone with a screaming Marshall tone is fun), or enhances the guitar (my 12-string is the acoustic output of the Godin with the additional unison/octave strings being applied by the synth). Even Queen triple-guitar solos are possible with harmonized synthesized guitar patches, but the guitar is the central reference point. So do I use MIDI guitar? Couldn't tell ya...

[jeremy_green]

I Have the Roland GR-20. I got it several years back after seeing Steve Morse use a synth to absolutely ridiculous levels. Havent used it much as it is a bit of a PTA having just more gear to lug - so i let the keyboard player do it : )

Here is a track i did with it a long time back. All the sounds (other than the GTR Bass Drums) were triggered by the GR-20. Some of them came from a Roland Super JV synth module. Oh yeah the "seagulls" at the end were done with a slide and volume swells with delay.

I still use it to input difficult keyboard parts but this is the most complete tune I did with it

http://www.box.net/shared/49poktbha9

[BryanMichael]

I've gone back and forth over this for a few years, having a Godin LGXT and VG-88 for awhile, then selling and "getting back to basics" with stompboxes, but last year decided to chuck all of that and get a VG-99 and a Godin Freeway SA. I got the Godin on Ebay (new) and the VG on Ebay from Sweetwater as a used demo- it was immacculate! A trip down to Guitar Center where they were blowing out the ROLAND stand for the VG for like $50 because a new model was coming out- and I was back in business for less than $1300 for everything! I sold off my stompboxes, my Gibson, and my Boss FX unit- now I just have the VG-99 and two dirt boxes, a BOSS FS-6 footswitch and an EV-5 expression pedal. It's actually quite nice...

[Polaris20]

I'm using an Ibanez RG421 (MIJ) with the Graphtech Ghost system coupled with a Roland GI-20, going into a unibody MacBook Pro running GarageBand and Reason, but also using it for guitar lessons with Notion's Progression.

Quite cool, although technique has to be spanking clean, as already mentioned. The ability to record midi from my guitar, change instruments on the fly, layer the same midi track with multiple instruments, etc. is mind-blowing.

[ZenFly]

I've been using a RMC equipped Parker Fly > US20> GR33>VG8ex > a small crappy mixer and Mackie SRM450 speakers for about 7 years now. This along with a H&K zenTera is my rig for gigs, recording etc. I play in a three piece band that covers Steely Dan, Little Feat, 80's material that benifits from a taste of organ , piano, sitar, horn stabs, or synths along with "normal" guitar.

I've had 3 power supplies and a circuit board fix on the GR33 but other than that, it rocks. I think if it goes down again, I'm getting a VG99 or GI20 to interface with a laptop and vsti's! Still for less than 6bills a GR33 has been a great addition.

For studio I tend to use keyboard controllers for synth rather than guitar.

[Lucky #9]

I have a Casio MG510.

The guitar part is much nicer than the MIDI, but at least it has a real MIDI out.

Usually it goes into an old Roland MT-32.

Burnout...

How well/fast does the old Casio track?

I picked one up some time ago but have yet to get into it.

[ieso]

Yes, I have a NiteFly + GK-2A that I run into a GI-20 and then a Yamaha Motif Rack ES -- I take the analog out into my RME multiface and record it that way -- as an audio track not a midi track. I hate futzing around with midi data in my recording software so I just record the performance in real time

[rackvax]

I've seen people comparing MIDI to Variax and related DSP technologies and just wanted to add to the discussion some information I hope will be helpful.

We have really two distinct uses for polyphonic/divided pickups:

1. Pitch recognition
2. Parallel processing

Variax falls under the parallel processing category, while pitch-to-MIDI falls under pitch recognition.

Pitch-to-MIDI is useful to play synthesizers and samplers from a guitar. If you're not a keyboard player, it's a great way to broaden your palette of sounds.

In pitch-to-MIDI, the recognition of what you're playing (including pitch and dynamics) is converted into MIDI data and used to drive the synthesizers or samplers. This is what "tracking" means.

Note that calling a guitar with a divided/polyphonic pickup a "MIDI guitar" is a misnomer. A separate pitch-to-MIDI converter is needed in most cases to convert the pickup signals from your guitar to MIDI. There are examples of guitars that have this capability built-in, but they are rare. Guitars with divided-pickups are not really MIDI guitars per se.

But there are a lot more uses for divided pickups than just pitch-to-MIDI.

Parallel processing is a whole world of its own. A simple form of parallel processing would be having each one of your strings hooked to a different guitar amplifier--the guitar amplifiers are the sound processors in this situation. However, there do exist plenty of polyphonic guitar processors on the market, many of which are from Roland. The VG-99 is one example (Note: the VG-99 has pitch-to-MIDI capabilities). The Variax is another. An entire new world of possibilities is opened up when you have the capability to process each string separately.

To bring polyphonic guitar to the mainstream, this is going to have to become common knowledge. It will also require gadgets and hardware that are as transparent and easy to use as possible.

The esoteric nature of the old generation of hardware has been the limiting factor in the past. But just look at the Variax. Most people don't know it is just a cheap guitar with a (piezo) hex pickup system and a built-in guitar modeling processor. That's because it's all packaged in a familiar and easy to use format.

I think we have however reached a turning point. It's good to see a lot of you are taking advantage of this technology and having fun with it!

[dcsween2006]

I'm glad to find this forum- I've been using a GR-1 for the past 3 years or so, and have recently bought both a GR-9 and a GR-50. The seller of the GR-9 sold me the GKP4 splitter as well. the GR-9 and GR-1 together are great,
'holding' one patch while playing over the other is pretty cool; horns, different organ tones together- very fun. The GR50 has some pretty good sounds, but it's a bit complicated, i'm the impatient guitar player who can't be bothered to learn enough about midi and synthesis 'rules' to get the most out of it. It's pretty much the GR-9 for me these days- simple to access patches, tracks well and is small enough to fit in the pedalboard bag pocket.
I've had a GK2 for 3 years, just got the gk3 and it seems to track better. I need to mount the gk3 in my electric- the double tape/poster putty route just don't work that great anymore, slips out of place and wreaks havoc on my sound. i'm using a hartke km-200 as my monitor, out to the pa. haven't used the amp in a true live setting yet, but i'm optimistic it's going to work fine, bumped the 250Hz down a bit, rolled bass a bit back too, and it sounds sweet. Anyway, just wanted to share my experiences with this gear.

[TieDyedDevil]

I have a Sonuus G2M. I use the Sonuus to drive a Roland SH-32. I've also used it via a MIDI-to-USB interface to record MIDI tracks in Garage Band.

As noted, the Sonuus does require a significant adaptation in technique, particularly when crossing strings.

[Cavadge]

I've been experimenting with MIDI guitar for about four years. I started with a GR-30, then a GI-20, driving either a soft synth or a Roland XV3080 synth. Tracking and latency issues led me to my current rig, an Axon AX100 into the XV3080. The possibilities are limitless.

I have two capable guitars - a Godin LGXT, and a Jackson DK2S (with Sustainiac) fitted with a GK3. The Godin tracks a little better, but is more sensitive to playing style, while the Jackson, with the Sustaniac, adds another dimension to the possibilities.

I generally look for patches that allow me to play the guitar along/over the synth sounds being generated. Alone or in the mix, it can sound huge. And nothing else I've do generates quite the response from people as playing the drums, strings, horns, pads, or a B-3 on my guitar. At first they look confused, then their eyes light up and they freak. :thu:

[acousticglue]

I have went through the GR-30 and GR-33, the VG8EX and other various pedals and have now landed into VG99, Pod XT Pro, VST amp sims and software synths. The trip is fun and educational. I use Godin XTsa and used to own a Godin LGXT. I also have strat for the Pod. I plan on fitting it with a Gk-3 at some point. Wusikstation has politely placed a global off for pitch bend as a parameter in newest release of software and works wonderfully on patches that gave issues.

[ToneZappa]

I,ve been using midi guitar since 97 I still use the old Roland GI-10 with the old Hex PU. I find once its set up its no problem to use. Here are a couple of tracks using only midi guitar (Godin and Maton guitars) Read the info on the links.

Call It Fusion (http://soundclick.com/share?songid=6085921)

Mad Easter (http://soundclick.com/share?songid=5910888)

Aquarium (http://soundclick.com/share?songid=6604024)

Jumbuck (http://soundclick.com/share?songid=5750571)

90% of the sounds on my SoundClick page are from midi guitar. Atually I,m looking for a good bass guitar sound if anyone can recommend a program that would be great. I did post something here but as yet nobody has replied.

[StompboxMan]

The 1988 Roland GR-50 can play up to 12 sounds on 6 strings. The GR-50 also transmit on 12 MIDI Channels. I have it triggering a Korg SR Wavestation. I can play multiple WS sounds on each string of my guitar.

Roland is making a new Guitar Synth that will have that GR-50 feature expanded to play 4 different internal sounds on each string. Yeah! :thu:

[Annoying Twit]

I have a Sonuus G2M. I use the Sonuus to drive a Roland SH-32. I've also used it via a MIDI-to-USB interface to record MIDI tracks in Garage Band.

As noted, the Sonuus does require a significant adaptation in technique, particularly when crossing strings.

I'm very seriously considering getting a Sonuus as a combination novelty/practice tool. I have synths lying around I can use, and I'm thinking that learning even a very particular kind of discipline, would benefit in the long run.

Any thoughts/comments?

[Karma1]

Roland is making a new Guitar Synth that will have that GR-50 feature expanded to play 4 different internal sounds on each string. Yeah! :thu:

Damn Roland! Just when I was satisfied with my GR33, they're going to come out with something else I "have to have".

[aliensporebomb]

The 1988 Roland GR-50 can play up to 12 sounds on 6 strings. The GR-50 also transmit on 12 MIDI Channels. I have it triggering a Korg SR Wavestation. I can play multiple WS sounds on each string of my guitar.

Roland is making a new Guitar Synth that will have that GR-50 feature expanded to play 4 different internal sounds on each string. Yeah! :thu:

Link regarding this new guitar synth? Where did you hear this?

[aliensporebomb]

My latest midi guitar experiment, live to two track:

VZabQjGHLe8

[StompboxMan]

Link regarding this new guitar synth? Where did you hear this?

No Link yet! Heard it at NAMM 2 years ago. It's due maybe next year!

[arise]

Back in '95, I picked up a GR-1. Ultimately, it wasn't what I wanted, because I was trying to make a 'better' distortion timbre. Not really 'distortion', but something that I really dug in a similar way that could replace it, while affording me true volume dynamics. Which would enable a more dynamic environment, a more-easily textured one, particularly with (timbral) counterpoint in mind.

Several years ago, I heard that Axon smoked everything in existence. And it's always been cheaper than comparable Roland gear, yet is (or was) obscure in the market. But I've never jumped on it, because essentially the timbre I'm wanting doesn't simply exist, and I'm not sure the technology exists to create it, even still.

Supplementally, that sonic tech sounds like a winner, tracking and articulation-wise.

[Karma1]

No Link yet! Heard it at NAMM 2 years ago. It's due maybe next year!

Regarding a new Roland GR guitar synth, I could be wrong (and I hope I am) but my guess is that it is vaporware that will never see the light of day. I don't think that Roland has ever done very well with their GR line over the years and I doubt that especially in this economy that they would put a lot into developing a new one. But maybe they will - and if they do I'll be first in line to check it out, being a long time GR user (GR50, GR30, and currently a GR33) as well as VG99.

[Verne Andru]

I have a Godin Multiac and a GR-33. I record the analog audio along with the MIDI then edit the MIDI/assign patches for background pads and other instruments. It's a great head-start as the changes are already recorded.

I also find the Godin/33 combo works great for solo finger-style gigs.

I have a GK-2 I'm putting on the 12 side of my Danelectro double. It sounds absolutely HUGE!

I talked to Roland years ago when I got the 33 about the tracking issues. They claimed the problem was the processors weren't powerful enough to keep up. I would think that problem has become moot over the past 8 or so years and look forward to a new offering soon.

[Verne Andru]

I don't think that Roland has ever done very well with their GR line over the years and I doubt that especially in this economy that they would put a lot into developing a new one.

I had a conversation with Richard [the R in RMC] some years back. He was working closely with Roland to tweak his pups to their system. At that point he stated Roland was the best selling guitar synth and their annual worldwide shipments were under 1000 units.

From my conversations with Roland it appears they thought there was a bigger market perusing the MIDI/Modeling technologies ala VG-99 than pure MIDI as they were having technical issues with processors keeping up with the data streams so tracking was transparent. This was a number of years ago, so things may have changed in the interim.

[Jerry_L]

Anyone familiar with the Shadow Quick Mount Guitar to MIDI Converter System?

I'd like to be able to use one of my existing guitars, with sound modules I already have or computer-based samples, and it seems the Shadow would work for me.

Not available until 10/31, though. :(

[forrest roush]

i use some midi to trigger softsynths from my vg 99 but i mainly use midi the other way around with abletons dummy clips and 3rd party vst midi lfo's to modulate the vg 99

for example this copied from the vg99 forum explaining my "tb303 guitar"
http://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php/topic,1646.0.html

"here is what i am doing so far.
i made a very simple patch on the VG using the GR300 model
i set up each string to respond to midi CC#'s to turn the volume on or off in a rhythmic pattern.
i also set up a CC# to control the pitch to achieve 303 type glides.

the CC#s for the patch are as follows.
CC 80 = 6th string
CC 81 = 5th string
CC 82 = 4th string
CC 83 = 3rd string
CC 84 = 2nd string
CC 85 = 1st string
CC 90 = pitch control on pitch A of the GR300
EXP ped = filter cutoff

i also attached a new basic mp3.
it is very rough but it is just to demo the concept.
the first part of each demo is to show off each strings pattern.....in this case E, A, and D
then followed is a off the cuff "jam" to demo what it sounds like.

it is all pretty simple stuff but i see a HUGE use for this playing live.
with the VG one can modulate ANYTHING with a CC# so it can become very interesting.
i am already using live and my laptop on stage so this is a natural progression.
the nice thing is if i am in a situation where we are playing without a click i
can just tap the tempo into live via my fc1010 and get in sync ....VERY COOL.
i can also scroll through scenes with the foot controller and launch them so i don't even have
to use a mouse....not that i mind using a mouse every now and again on stage

it is like live is just a part of the VG at that point"
here is a proof of concept example
http://soundcloud.com/forrest/tb303test2

i am really blown away with what the vg99 can do and i make all my own patches from scratch but sometimes i need midi for sounds i can't make or haven't figured out how to make
i wish roland would have made 1 synth that was full blown instead of a bunch that are half way there but hell....at the end of the day i am a very happy camper =)

vg99 users can download my first patch collection here
http://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php/topic,1581.0.html

thanks for this place craig.....you are correct there is a new wave of guitar players out there even if some of us are "old"

forrest "fuzz"

[aliensporebomb]

Forrest - that's great, I can indeed see a live use for that! Very cool.

[Karma1]

vg99 users can download my first patch collection here
http://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php/topic,1581.0.html

thanks for this place craig.....you are correct there is a new wave of guitar players out there even if some of us are "old"

forrest "fuzz"


Sorry for the newb question, but how do I transfer those sounds from my computer to my VG99?

[StompboxMan]

Regarding a new Roland GR guitar synth, I could be wrong (and I hope I am) but my guess is that it is vaporware that will never see the light of day. I don't think that Roland has ever done very well with their GR line over the years and I doubt that especially in this economy that they would put a lot into developing a new one. But maybe they will - and if they do I'll be first in line to check it out, being a long time GR user (GR50, GR30, and currently a GR33) as well as VG99.

I know the head of the Roland Guitar Synth Dept. He told me it was coming. Next year or the one after that, it's coming. I know cause I suggested 4 sounds per string and they are implementing that type of multi sound feature from the GR-50.

The GR-50 can still play on 12 MIDI channels but that requires other synths. Roland knows GR users like myself who wanted 24 or more internal sounds over 6 strings. The new Roland Guitar Synth will need loads of polyphony and that will raise the price, at least like the GR-50 in 1988, about $1495. This is their grand slam after all the years making guitar synths. Despite the economy this one product could revolutionize music creation. :)

[germanicus2112]

Id like to have them release a box that simply converts to midi and lets you use other gear for synths playback, ala an updated gi-20/axon 50 type deal with better tracking, velocity triggering, or picking zone triggering. They have velocity triggering already implemented in the vg99. Better tracking/zone triggering who knows if they are able to improve without licensing tech from axon.

Buying a unit with built in sounds is not really cost effective or as versatile as using soft synths/samplers, not to mention you can still use hardware modules and 'upgrade' your sounds. I realize thought that for many its nice having it all in one unit for stage performance.

I hope $1500 is incorrect, that seems extremely excessive. You can get a vg99 system for much less, which does a ton more. Polyphony in and of itself doesnt justify this type of cost. A rackmount motif xs (pretty much top of the line in technical capabilities for a synth) goes for $1200 and that unit has magnitudes of features that would not be used/needed in a guitar synth. Even if your stacking 6 different elements per string, thats still only 64 note polyphony maximum, which my old 15 year old alesis nanosynth can handle no problem.

[aliensporebomb]

I know the head of the Roland Guitar Synth Dept. He told me it was coming. Next year or the one after that, it's coming. I know cause I suggested 4 sounds per string and they are implementing that type of multi sound feature from the GR-50.

The GR-50 can still play on 12 MIDI channels but that requires other synths. Roland knows GR users like myself who wanted 24 or more internal sounds over 6 strings. The new Roland Guitar Synth will need loads of polyphony and that will raise the price, at least like the GR-50 in 1988, about $1495. This is their grand slam after all the years making guitar synths. Despite the economy this one product could revolutionize music creation. :)

Oh very cool. I suppose there's no news of a firmware update for the VG-99?

And yes, 24-or more would be fantastic because the tracking on the internal sounds is always better than what gets triggered via midi.

I'll look forward to what they put out.

[GuitarPlayerFL]

I know the head of the Roland Guitar Synth Dept. He told me it was coming. Next year or the one after that, it's coming. I know cause I suggested 4 sounds per string and they are implementing that type of multi sound feature from the GR-50.

The GR-50 can still play on 12 MIDI channels but that requires other synths. Roland knows GR users like myself who wanted 24 or more internal sounds over 6 strings. The new Roland Guitar Synth will need loads of polyphony and that will raise the price, at least like the GR-50 in 1988, about $1495. This is their grand slam after all the years making guitar synths. Despite the economy this one product could revolutionize music creation. :)

Is it going to track as well as the Axon ESPECIALLY on the low strings? The Roland is useless for playing repeated notes on the low strings.

If not, none of the other stuff is going to matter to me.

Q8ESf-0iGQE

[StompboxMan]

Is it going to track as well as the Axon ESPECIALLY on the low strings? The Roland is useless for playing repeated notes on the low strings. If not, none of the other stuff is going to matter to me.

I've played an Axon. I liked it's Pitch To Voltage converter input, very handy thing!

I guess if I can strum organ sounds on the GR-30, 33 and 20, the low strings track just fine. Even my GR-50 tracked low strings as good as the Axon.

Is that you on You Tube?

[gtrbass]

I have the Roland GI-20 and the Axon AX-100. I must say that the axon tracks better then the GI-20. The difference is not huge per se, but it is noticeable on the lower strings. I use a Godin with RMC pickup system.

[cincy_cosmo]

I know the head of the Roland Guitar Synth Dept. He told me it was coming. Next year or the one after that, it's coming. I know cause I suggested 4 sounds per string and they are implementing that type of multi sound feature from the GR-50.

The GR-50 can still play on 12 MIDI channels but that requires other synths. Roland knows GR users like myself who wanted 24 or more internal sounds over 6 strings. The new Roland Guitar Synth will need loads of polyphony and that will raise the price, at least like the GR-50 in 1988, about $1495. This is their grand slam after all the years making guitar synths. Despite the economy this one product could revolutionize music creation. :)
I'm already saving for it! I hope it will be as good of unit for MIDI as the VG-99 is to processors (which is stunningly good). If they could nail the tracking to the point you don't have adjust style it will be awsome...extra points if they can grab some features from the Fantom keyboards (expandability, sequencer, sampler maybe?, and or add effect/amp modeling for the guitar signal) and keep it in a VG-99 style form factor.

[GuitarPlayerFL]

I've played an Axon. I liked it's Pitch To Voltage converter input, very handy thing!

I guess if I can strum organ sounds on the GR-30, 33 and 20, the low strings track just fine. Even my GR-50 tracked low strings as good as the Axon.

Is that you on You Tube?

No, not me. :lol:

I'm talking about repeated attacks on the same string....in particular the 6th string. On either my GR-33 or GR-20, I have to play bass parts an octave higher on the fretboard to reduce glitching because the string vibrates faster. If you look at that video (around 1:00 into it), this man plays repeated notes on the same low string and it tracks perfectly.

If you've ever seen the Roland demo videos online, they never play that low on the guitar and attempt that kind of playing.

This is probably why the Yamaha G-10 (I had one) used plain .016 strings...they vibrated faster and the tracking was faster.

[aliensporebomb]

Back in '95, I picked up a GR-1. Ultimately, it wasn't what I wanted, because I was trying to make a 'better' distortion timbre. Not really 'distortion', but something that I really dug in a similar way that could replace it, while affording me true volume dynamics. Which would enable a more dynamic environment, a more-easily textured one, particularly with (timbral) counterpoint in mind.

Several years ago, I heard that Axon smoked everything in existence. And it's always been cheaper than comparable Roland gear, yet is (or was) obscure in the market. But I've never jumped on it, because essentially the timbre I'm wanting doesn't simply exist, and I'm not sure the technology exists to create it, even still.

Supplementally, that sonic tech sounds like a winner, tracking and articulation-wise.

What's the closest to the timbre you are searching for? I'm curious.

Interesting Axon video. I'll see what tracking I can get on my VG-99 with the guitar to midi,
I've actually done a test and it seemed to track pretty well.

But we'll see if I can get in the neighborhood of the Axon.

[StompboxMan]

No, not me. :lol:

I'm talking about repeated attacks on the same string....in particular the 6th string. On either my GR-33 or GR-20, I have to play bass parts an octave higher on the fretboard to reduce glitching because the string vibrates faster. If you look at that video (around 1:00 into it), this man plays repeated notes on the same low string and it tracks perfectly.

If you've ever seen the Roland demo videos online, they never play that low on the guitar and attempt that kind of playing.

This is probably why the Yamaha G-10 (I had one) used plain .016 strings...they vibrated faster and the tracking was faster.

I can program a bass Patch with the high E,B,G two octaves down. Using the high string's shorter waveform cycle improves lag time. Sometimes running two different bass tones, one octave and two octaves down.

I can play GR bass in time with a tempo as my technique adjusts timing to trigger the ms lag in time, like some mysterious ms anticipation. :)

[cincy_cosmo]

I can program a bass Patch with the high E,B,G two octaves down. Using the high string's shorter waveform cycle improves lag time. Sometimes running two different bass tones, one octave and two octaves down.

I can play GR bass in time with a tempo as my technique adjusts timing to trigger the ms lag in time, like some mysterious ms anticipation. :)
When I had a GR-33 previously, I did exactly the technique above. I always got better tracking playing mid neck. I'm in the process of building patches on my 'new-to-me' Gr-33 this week.

[Chumly]

I have a Brain Moore i2.13 triggering an Axon AX100sb MIDI'ed to a Roland JV1010 (with orchestral expansion board). I am thinking about a laptop running a soft synth and was wondering which would be the best configuration for the most realistic instruments.

Something that would blow away the Roland JV1010 (with orchestral expansion board) for live use getting as realistic instruments as possible.

[germanicus2112]

A soft sampler will give you the most realistic instruments. Ie Kontact running orchestral libraries such as Vienna Symphonic Library volumes or Project Sam libraries. There are many great libraries available.

Its the best for realism as they arent synthesized, you are playing back the real thing, not approximations.

What specific instruments are you after?

[Chumly]

A soft sampler will give you the most realistic instruments. Ie Kontact running orchestral libraries such as Vienna Symphonic Library volumes or Project Sam libraries. There are many great libraries available.

Its the best for realism as they arent synthesized, you are playing back the real thing, not approximations.

What specific instruments are you after?The JV1010 is a ROM'pler albeit more limited than PC based sample playback, so it's not a question of synthesis versus sample playback per se.

My questions were:

1) "Which would be the best configuration for the most realistic instruments". Thus "configuration" would take the entire chain into account.

2) "Something that would blow away the Roland JV1010 (with orchestral expansion board) for live use getting as realistic instruments as possible" This infers you would need direct familiarity with the JV sound-sets as compared to soft-synths.

Also synthesis is not simply "approximations", and sample playback is not simply "the real thing".

[bluzgtr]

I've tried several MIDI guitars over the years, and never been happy with the results. Yeah, sure, I'm not what you'd call a real precise player, so a big chunk of it is me. But I've found a different approach that works. I play the part with whatever guitar I feel like using. I load the track into Melodyne Studio (I think cre8 does this, too). Then I clean it up, if necessary. Finally, I use the audio to MIDI function of Melodyne to create a MIDI track. Presto, no glitches, no latency, just nice, clean synth tracks.

Larry

[raagam]

I have a Roland GR-1, and the GK-2 (ebay purchase a few years ago). Use with a Fender Bullet USA (nice little guitar I bought new in the early 1980s).

Tracking indeed is the biggest problem with this set-up. I am sure I could improve it with some time tweaking the pickup position more precisely. As well, the playing technique feels different. I'm not really a guitarist, so that doesn't bother me; I'm willing to play it as needed to make it work. Suppose more accurate tracking and better handling of bent pitches would make it all more seamless.

A couple of years ago, I used the GR-1 as part of live musical accompaniment for a theater production for which I was musical director. Mostly played pads and sustained tones, also did a 'trumpet' solo. Added volume pedal and an expression pedal to control the filter, which has a dramatic effect on the tone. I understand not all models of GR series have a filter; it's a great feature.

[mygolfcart123]

I started out using a Roland GK2 pickup on a cheap peavey guitar with a Roland GR 33. Later on, I tried a Fender with the GK pickup built in, but it STILL tracked HORRIBLY!

So I finally got a Brian Moore 81.13 guitar with a RMC pickup in the bridge....WOW! It was like night and day in the difference between the two tracking....and fore those that would say I did not have the GK 2 Set up right, I would say you are wrong! I tried various combinations with the GK2 and you can only move one side or the other up or down, so there is little room for making improvements with it's tracking.

A RMC or GHOST system bridge setup is MUCH better, because you can adjust each of the strings and not have to worry about string height.

But then I read that the BEST tracking you can possibly get, is from a classical guitar with a 13 pin pickup. Because the classical strings track much better than steel strings.

So when I sold some land and I came into some money, I got my dream MIDI guitar setup.......a Godin ACS SA classical going into a Axon AX 100 Mark II for my converter. (The NEW model of axon...I do not use the internal axon sounds though, they sound horrible to me) Then I got a Yamaha Motif XS rack unit for my sounds.

This rig is one of the best tracking and sounding MIDI guitar units I have played on ever! I am constantly amazed at what I can do NOW with this new setup!

It cost, but boy was it worth it!