Is doing your own vocal effects live really practical?

[GDan]

Or is it the kind of ting thats going to end up with every soundman you meet hating your guts?

I'm talking about stuff like the TC helicon create pedal http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DVmjyg56Bs&feature=related thing is, isnt this going to be stepping on the toes of whoever would normally be processing your signal, leading to some awful live sound?

I dont want crazy robot noise or anything, I just want a time synced echo for some songs. Kind of like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bseorRGnfBE

[Bryan316]

Just tell the sound guy, "Hey I've got a vocal processor with effects programmed along with our songs. You won't need bother with any vocal effects. Here, here's a beer, enjoy." I have NEVER had a problem with a sound guy after buying him a warmup beer.

[JacieFB]

Considering we run our own sound and at the nucleus of that sound is a Behringer board with built-in "effects" , having a floor processor is pretty helpful for me. I'm using the Digitech Vocalist 4. It has some nice effects. As I am not playing guitar in this band, and the guitarist is critical of how "robotic" the harmonyzer is, I don't use that. I wish there was a better way of using delay. I honestly bought it so that I could be more effective with delays and actually get them reasonably sync'd to the music. As it stands, I just have a couple of different ones programmed and I use them each sparingly. The voice doubler is very nice, though.

Is it practical? Well, that depends on your ear for effects and their applications. Also, if you're tap dancing on a pedal, that can certainly take away from the vocal performance.

[Jersey Jack]

Guitarists always control their sound through pedals--and tube amplifiers for that matter. No reason why vocalists shouldn't also control the tone of their instruments!

[Consume]

Guitarists always control their sound through pedals--and tube amplifiers for that matter. No reason why vocalists shouldn't also control the tone of their instruments!

I just wish they made rack mounted Tube power amps that I could use for PA that were affordable, and not so bulky. I know Ampeg made a 400 watt at 2/4/8 ohm (maybe 16 as well - I'd have to look on the back of it - my brother has one in his bass rig) Rack mounted all Tube power amp - that thing KILLS, but it is an enormous mono Amp.

I wish I could have like 4 of those things to run cabinets for vocals.
I think you could do without a lot of EQ tweaking (other than feedback) and get that sweet Tube sound all the way though the PA system.

I know Carvin makes a 100 Watt Stereo one that isn't bad, but 100 watts isn't really enough for me for vocals. We had to have 2,000 Watts in the band-room just to get the vocals up over the guitars. (Guitarist has a 100 Watt Laney, and he expects to play with it at full blast at band practice. I'm thinking about losing him because he is a prima donna.. You know, he's got that "I'm THE star in the band.' And I was going," Who wrote the songs you're playing?" (none of them are his, because he can't write. Th bass player and I write them as a team.)

But -man, I'd love to be able to have an all Tube path for a vocal sub-system. (i.e, have a set of mains for the music, and then fly some small boxes aimed at the audience with just vocals and vocal effects being carried by those speakers.)




C

[jerrye]

I hope it catches on. 1, tap tempo delay; 2, bypass betwwen songs, if the vocalist expects anyone to understand the banter with the crowd.

[BLACKWINGEDBEING]

All singers should use effects. Whatever makes possible the presentation you're trying to get accross can only help.

[AdamCh311]

I just wish the made rack mounted Tube power amps that I could use for PA that were affordable, and not so bulky. I know Ampeg made a 400 watt at 2/4/8 ohm (maybe 16 as well - I'd have to look on the back of it - my brother has one in his bass rig) Rack mounted all Tube power amp - that thing KILLS, but it is an enormous mono Amp.

I wish I could havbe like 4 of those things to run cabinets for vocals.
I think you could do without a lot of EQ tweaking (other than feedback) and gat that sweet Tube sound all the way though the PA system.

I know Carvin makes a 100 Watt Stereo one that isn't bad, but 100 watts isn't really enough for me for vocals. We had to have 2,000 Watts in the bandroom just to geth the vocals up over the guitars. (Guitarist has a 100 Watt Laney, and he expects to play with it at full blast at band practice. I'm thinking about losing him because he is a prima donna.. You know, he's got that "I'm THE star in the band.' And I was going," Who wrote the songs you're playing?" (none of them are his, because he can't write. Th bass player and I write them as a team.)

But -man, I'd love to be able to have an all Tube path for a vocal sub-system. (i.e, have a set of mains for the music, and then fly some small boxes aimed at the audience with just vocals and vocal effects being carried by those speakers.)




C

Tubes are used by guitar players for the way they break up/distort. Distortion is typically a bad thing when it comes to vocals. Using high powered solid state amps for PA use is entirely practical. If they thought people would buy them, they would make higher powered tube amps, I promise you.

[WowieZowie]

Tubes are used by guitar players for the way they break up/distort. Distortion is typically a bad thing when it comes to vocals. Using high powered solid state amps for PA use is entirely practical. If they thought people would buy them, they would make higher powered tube amps, I promise you.

Yeah, but some of the best warm clean sounds come from tube amps.

[AdamCh311]

Yeah, but some of the best warm clean sounds come from tube amps.

What you are talking about can come from a good tube preamp as well. You are talking about coloring the sound, and a PA needs to color the sound as little as possible.

[cherri]

All singers should use effects. Whatever makes possible the presentation you're trying to get accross can only help. Disagree. Some styles of music lend themselves to vocal processors, but not all. Getting a song across vocally should be a combination of pitch, expression, interpretation, tone, emotionality....etc.

Yesterday we were in the car with a child who wanted to listen to the disney channel on the satellite radio. Each voice on those tunes was processed, and these are tunes that are receiving mainstream airplay as well. Every song sounded phony, glitchy, and overproduced. Even the DJ was speaking through a vocal processor that made her sound younger. It was like a series of musical cartoons ... I guess that's the point of disney channel.

Personally I can't stand the sound of a processed voice. I want to hear what the singer is doing to express the song, not the tricks a machine can do with a voice.

[Consume]

Tubes are used by guitar players for the way they break up/distort. Distortion is typically a bad thing when it comes to vocals. Using high powered solid state amps for PA use is entirely practical. If they thought people would buy them, they would make higher powered tube amps, I promise you.


Why do you think Tube Mic's and Tube Mic preamps are used for recording vocals? because The Tubes add a warmth that can't really be replicated any other way as far as I'm concerned.

[Consume]

What you are talking about can come from a good tube preamp as well. You are talking about coloring the sound, and a PA needs to color the sound as little as possible.

If that's the case, then you should not EQ ANYTHING at all in the PA, and sing through a test mic which is perfectly flat.

But if you did it, you would quickly find that the sound would be very brittle and sterile sounding. (We tried it one time when we were flattening out the PA system. with a spectrum analyzer and graphic EQ.

[satannica]

I can't sing and I growl in a metal band... Vocal effects are great (for me).

[AdamCh311]

Using an eq is not coloring the sound. Coloring the sound is like a guitar amp. With a flat eq setting you would still have guitar amps sounding different. Because they are designed to have a certain sound. Its impossible to have no coloring of sound. You adjust levels in a pa to fit the room. Trust me, you do not want tubes to run your 2000 watt PA system. Solid state is much more efficient and a provides for a much cleaner sound. You want your PA to reproduce the back line as clean as it possibly can, otherwise all that work you've done on your tone will go out the window when the pa makes it hit the room.

[Bajazz]

Disagree. Some styles of music lend themselves to vocal processors, but not all. Getting a song across vocally should be a combination of pitch, expression, interpretation, tone, emotionality....etc. .
.
.
.
.
Personally I can't stand the sound of a processed voice. I want to hear what the singer is doing to express the song, not the tricks a machine can do with a voice.Agreed. I've tried different vocal processing from time to time and still get back to flat eq and dry sound. I guess I've learned to use the effects I need with my instrument.

[Jersey Jack]

Disagree. Some styles of music lend themselves to vocal processors, but not all. Getting a song across vocally should be a combination of pitch, expression, interpretation, tone, emotionality....etc.

Yesterday we were in the car with a child who wanted to listen to the disney channel on the satellite radio. Each voice on those tunes was processed, and these are tunes that are receiving mainstream airplay as well. Every song sounded phony, glitchy, and overproduced. Even the DJ was speaking through a vocal processor that made her sound younger. It was like a series of musical cartoons ... I guess that's the point of disney channel.

Personally I can't stand the sound of a processed voice. I want to hear what the singer is doing to express the song, not the tricks a machine can do with a voice.

+1 on the Disney Channel stuff :eek: :eek: :eek: My daughter is addicted, I'm afraid. (I guess I should be happy that she's becoming interested in music, but still....)

But the primary problem here is excessive pitch correction. There's nothing wrong, it seems to me, with other forms of digital processing, which have been used in analog form for decades: reverb, delay, compression, EQ, etc.

[scredly]

If you teach your soundman what you want, it will take away the distraction of FX switching and allow you to focus on singing and the audience.

If you have the soundman du jour -then do it yourself for consistency.

If you run sound from stage- well you really don't have any other options.

I think these whiz-bang FX boxes can be a distraction. If you read the threads for the various Vocalist Live products (I own one), all of a sudden a solo singer/songwriter HAS to use every freakin' function of the box and wants a bigger mixer to mix each harmony voice separately and wants pitch correction and chorusing, different harmonies in the verse and the chorus. It's crazy, tap dancing on pedals through the song and not concentrating on performing and the audience. So much for the organic aspect of acoustic music.

FX are tools to enhance a performance. Keep it simple. Add a little to put some polish on but don't loose track of the actual vocal performance and interacting with the audience. That's what it's all about. It's easy to get caught up in the technology and how "good" it sounds and all the new capabilities that excite musicians but the audience generally don't perceive.

[Terry Allan Hall]

Just tell the sound guy, "Hey I've got a vocal processor with effects programmed along with our songs. You won't need bother with any vocal effects. Here, here's a beer, enjoy." I have NEVER had a problem with a sound guy after buying him a warmup beer.

Absolute agreement! :thu:

[Andrew JD]

I control my effects live. I use a Voodoo Labs Ground Control Pro with an expression pedal that switches effects on a TC Electronics G-Force.

Yep, it's a guitar processor, but with a direct box, it works just fine for vocals.

I only use a few different presets; the main one has some verb on it, however I can turn other effects on and off within that one preset. So at any point, I can hit the delay button on the MIDI pedal and now I've got delay...same goes with chorus/flange/pitch, etc.

I have the Exp. pedal set up so I can adjust effect mixes/output in real time. So say if I've got a nice big scream coming up, I'll slam the pedal down, cranking up the verb and delay that'll enhance it a little bit.

I don't mess with much pitch stuff, one of my guitarist sings and I hate fake harmonies anyway. However, I have the pitch block set up for about an octave lower, so if I'm hitting a pretty high scream, you'll hear a nice low one in the background.

There's a tap tempo on the MIDI pedal as well, so I never have to worry about re-programming a tempo, I just tap it in with the count off of the tune.

All in all, I'm not switching THAT much....maybe once or twice in a tune....when I played guitar, I had it much worse.

[jerrye]

control my effects live. I use a Voodoo Labs Ground Control Pro with an expression pedal that switches effects on a TC Electronics G-Force

That's cool! It's about time the lead singers take on more gadget responsibilities. I can't get mine to use a kill switch, tuner, or volume pedal to stop his acoustic from feeding back, every time he puts the thing down.

[modulusman]

Consume, If tube amps were the way to go don't you think touring sound companies would use them. Maybe you don't know what your talking about.

[WynnD]

When I've found myself mixing a punk group, the singers that brought their own modules always sounded best. (Not to my mind, but than it is their music, not mine.) If there had been more time, I would have liked to see what they were using. Generally looked like two or three single space units. No idea what they were doing. (Screaming singers are the hardest to run sound for. Whispers are the second hardest.)

[Andrew JD]

Gettin' a good 'screamer' sound with a mic isn't too hard really...crank up the compressor, get the input turned up quite a bit, and bring the output down, really high ratio rate...

Roll down the high's a pinch more than ya normally would and you're good to go for the most part. If ya got someone singing/screaming, that's a little tougher...gotta work the gate more to allow to softer vocal stuff to get through.