How do you practice?

[WowieZowie]

I think that this would really help all of us. We may hear things that we could work into our routine. I am very interested in duration, frequency, per day/week. Other commitments obviously limit what some are able to do. So, you could give what you would like to do if you could.

I also want to hear about technique. Scales? With instrument? Or Acapella? Standing, sitting? Perhaps you use backing tracks like me? Or, maybe you use several different methods?

The more info you can provide the better. Even if it is rather unorthadox, please let us hear. Some people will only have the time to practice while driving to work. These people use what they have time-wise and make things work to the best of their ability.

Personally, I find that using backing tracks is the best way to grow as a vocalist. Using backing tracks allows me to focus on my vocals solely. (as apposed to me playing guitar, or piano during practice.) I Set up my PA every time. I stand when I sing. (I really think that practicing using gear that you are going to use during the show is important.) Further, learning better mic technique is all part of the process. I also learn a lot more about effects since I tweek these during practice. Warm up for me is probably not like some other folks here. I like to sing softly at first. That is how I warm up. I pick a song that is fun, but rather easy for me to sing. Fun is important for me. That is why scales don't really do it for me. A fun song gets the juices flowing. For me, that is the engine that makes me want to sing in the first place.:thu:

I sing for about 2 hours a day. I take a break at the one hour mark, (Well, I try to do this, but I am usually so into it, that I forget. :) )

I miss days, but I am pretty consistent. Especially since I got my own PA. I have two of them now actually. I believe that this is an essential thing for singers to have. Even if it is just a small practice set up. (for a couple hundred dollars.) Owning a PA legitimatizes your position as a singer. It may sound funny. But to some people this is important. I was a guitarist/singer, before I got my PA. Now, I am a singer who plays guitar. People ask me what instrument I play, I state that I am a singer. This has been a big thing for me.

[Bajazz]

- SingStar (software that tracks your pitch on popular songs)
- Lot's of playlists with different themes: Warmup, Falsetto songs, heavy metal screaming, low, easy, difficult, excercises etc.... I sing along to those while spending time in front of PC, doing housework, driving my car etc....
- I spend much time singing songs

[jive4005]

Putting together new blues/soul band. 4 pieces w/me fronting on vocs. We do ev. Thursday night and every other Sunday. In 3 wks we learned 16 tunes, not solid but playable and we'll tighten 'em up at some local clubs (at low $) so we should be up and runnin' smooth come '09.

I find keeping notes on arrangements helps.

[Silverfox]

1. Find a song I like
2. Analyzing it
3. Warming up
4. Covering the song

That's basically it.

When it comes to technique I'm such a rookie that I concentrate on singing with my diaphragm standing up.

[Jersey Jack]

I do about 2-3 minutes of breathing exercizes, followed by about 10 minutes of scales. (I'm often tempted to go 15, even 20 minutes on the scales, as I get obsessed with getting them just right. I now limited myself to 10 minutes. :cop:)

I then simply run through some of my songs, focusing on the following:

1. volume (I'm a belter by nature, but my voice sounds a lot better when I try to reduce the volme)

2. relaxing my neck and jaw; keeping my ribs expanded

3. phrasing--I have a tendency to think in terms of hitting notes, which is a technical concern; thinking in phrases forces me to engage creatively with the song.

Finally, I always record myself. There is no better tool than listening to oneself and adjusting to improve the sound. That's how one learns to play one's instrument!

If I'm performing, I do some lip and tongue trills, as this usually gets the breathing going.

Great topic! :thu:

Jersey Jack

[WowieZowie]

Great topic! :thu:
Jersey Jack

Thanks!

I think that recording is also a great tool.

I think that this topic will give some of us ideas about things that can make us better singers. Thanks for the input. Good stuff.

[strat2]

Warm ups for me should be lip trills and light sirens, but I usually pick easy songs instead, and work up from there, if there is a tougher section in a fairly easy tune, I'll skip it and just reapeat a verse of whatever.
I think usually it takes me about a 1/2 hour to an hour to be 100% warmed up, some days are different.
Lately I try to start about 1 pm and go 3 hours or so, I'd prefer to sing all day, and sometimes do, but that's generally a very bad idea.
I play guitar along with my singing.

I agree with the use of pa if that's what you use when you perform, + that's half the fun of singing for me is singing through a decent sounding pa.
I leave the pa and go outside from time to time and sing dry for a few minutes then go back in of the pa, just to reasure myself a different environment isn't triggering bad signals.

Note: You can also put your vocals through your headphones, and dial the vocal lower-to non existent through the main speakers, if you/me don't want the neighors to hear us thrashing about ....:lol:

For people that sing Bel Canto style, your very best tone will often sound like absolute crap inside your head, in other words when it's sounds the worst in you head , you may well be on the right track....LOL, so this for me is another place where the PA helps, it let's me hear more or less what an audience will be hearing.

Practice for me is also a time where I make sure, I know exactly what notes I'm singing , I don't just guess.
I didn't always do that, and I was occsaionally off key because of it, not taking the time to understand the exact notes was doing myself a disservice.
The guitar is what I use to determine the scale, and then make sure I'm in it.
Probably half my practice time is spent also learning new tunes.
I learn the rendition I'm trying to cover note for note , (which is a lot easier than it sounds), then go from there, changing the melody if I want to.

[5THSINGER]

Practice????What the hell is that???;)

[WowieZowie]

Practice????What the hell is that???;)

Nice!!!!!!!!!!!

Actually, that is when I be in da chowa. Wid da wada wunnin down da drain.

[Consume]

I use the program laid out in Raise Your Voice by Jaime Vendera. I know some people think his glassbreaking thing is a gimmick of sorts, but his techniques gained me an octave and a half of Full voice on the high end. It allowed me to be able to hit everything I could once hit in falsetto, in Full voice. So now I've got over 4 octaves of range without any breaks.
It still amazes me that I went from not being able to carry a tune in a bucket (accoring to my brother) with a muddy tone, to having a crystal clear voice with a wide range. I put in a minimum of 30 minutes a day, seven days a week, and before I go on stage I do the full 30 minute routine, but I do a 10 minute breathing routine first using this breathing thing I bought that increases your lung power. I'm pissed though, I just found out they lowered the price of it - after I already spent $50 on the same thing!
Argh!
:facepalm:

Oh well, I should have checked Vendera's website before I bought it.

I would say any vocal practice is better than none, but I have to admit that before I got his book, I was kind of wandering blindly when it came to setting up a practice routine.

C

[Jersey Jack]

Let me get this straight--You went from not being able to carry a tune, with poor tone, to a clear voice with FOUR OCTAVES? (I assume you can also carry a tune now.)

And this from working with a BOOK? :rolleyes:

Well, as someone who has always struggled with his voice, and who has taken two years of private voice lessons with a great instructor, and who practices regularly at least 30 minutes a day--and who is still not a great singer and who possesses on a good day about an octave and a half of usable notes--let's say I'm skeptical.

Your post is either :thu::thu::thu: or :blah::blah::blah:

Don't get me wrong, I own and I've read Jaime's book and I do believe it's good (despite what seems to me a misplaced emphasis on extending range); but your claims are, well, a bit extreme, no?

Perhaps you're right, I don't know. I hope so, as it would mean there is genuine hope for all of us who struggle with singing. Maybe you're exaggerating how bad you were up front, rather than how good you've become.

Can you post a sound clip? Something using the 4th octave would be nice!

[WowieZowie]

Warm ups for me should be lip trills and light sirens, but I usually pick easy songs instead, and work up from there, if there is a tougher section in a fairly easy tune, I'll skip it and just reapeat a verse of whatever.
I think usually it takes me about a 1/2 hour to an hour to be 100% warmed up, some days are different.
Lately I try to start about 1 pm and go 3 hours or so, I'd prefer to sing all day, and sometimes do, but that's generally a very bad idea.
I play guitar along with my singing.

I agree with the use of pa if that's what you use when you perform, + that's half the fun of singing for me is singing through a decent sounding pa.
I leave the pa and go outside from time to time and sing dry for a few minutes then go back in of the pa, just to reasure myself a different environment isn't triggering bad signals.

Note: You can also put your vocals through your headphones, and dial the vocal lower-to non existent through the main speakers, if you/me don't want the neighors to hear us thrashing about ....:lol:

For people that sing Bel Canto style, your very best tone will often sound like absolute crap inside your head, in other words when it's sounds the worst in you head , you may well be on the right track....LOL, so this for me is another place where the PA helps, it let's me hear more or less what an audience will be hearing.

Practice for me is also a time where I make sure, I know exactly what notes I'm singing , I don't just guess.
I didn't always do that, and I was occsaionally off key because of it, not taking the time to understand the exact notes was doing myself a disservice.
The guitar is what I use to determine the scale, and then make sure I'm in it.
Probably half my practice time is spent also learning new tunes.
I learn the rendition I'm trying to cover note for note , (which is a lot easier than it sounds), then go from there, changing the melody if I want to.

I am really learning that I need to add some of the techniques you and others have mentioned here.

I don't really know what Bel Canto style is.

My neighbor stopped me one day and told me how much she loved my singing and that I could do it any time, and was wondering how much I would charge to sing at a party. Well, it was her birthday party at this church, and I did it for free. I kinda can't do wrong now. She wants to be my manager. lol. (be advised, I live in a place that resembles mars, and has the cultural depth of a zip lock bag. So, it ain't tough to sparkle.)

[Consume]

Let me get this straight--You went from not being able to carry a tune, with poor tone, to a clear voice with FOUR OCTAVES? (I assume you can also carry a tune now.)

And this from working with a BOOK? :rolleyes:

Well, as someone who has always struggled with his voice, and who has taken two years of private voice lessons with a great instructor, and who practices regularly at least 30 minutes a day--and who is still not a great singer and who possesses on a good day about an octave and a half of usable notes--let's say I'm skeptical.

Your post is either :thu::thu::thu: or :blah::blah::blah:

Don't get me wrong, I own and I've read Jaime's book and I do believe it's good (despite what seems to me a misplaced emphasis on extending range); but your claims are, well, a bit extreme, no?

Perhaps you're right, I don't know. I hope so, as it would mean there is genuine hope for all of us who struggle with singing. Maybe you're exaggerating how bad you were up front, rather than how good you've become.

Can you post a sound clip? Something using the 4th octave would be nice!


I bought the book several years ago - multiply 6 days a week of practicing Jaime's program, for a minimum of 30 minutes per day, for over 2 years - that's a LOT of vocal practice, and that is just vocalizing the exercises, not including singing any songs. Initally I took each exercise in the program, and I practiced each one for 2 hours a day for entire week before moving on to the next exercise.

Trust me - I was pretty awful! LOL

I had some falsetto above Middle C, but literally could not get a full voice note up there - I was down in Jim Morrison land; actually, he and Elvis probably could hit notes quite a bit higher than I could.
But I made a lot of changes to my life, such as:
I was a 2-pack a day smoker, which I finally quit doing. As I used to say - Bailey's (http://www.baileyscigarettes.com/) - when you can't afford two packs of Marlboro's!:lol:
I also eliminated all dairy, wheat and sugar products from my diet. I also no longer drink alcohol, softdrinks or coffee, and essentially I just drink room temperature water.

Eliminating all of that from my diet took care of the tone. Hay fever+allergic to just about everything= "mucus tone".


So, I'm sure it was a combination of all of those things - coupled with the desire to be the best singer I could be - but I give the credit to Jaime Vendera because without my purchasing his book, I never would have gotten where I am today.
I saw him on Mythbusters, but couldn't remember his name and I didn't have net access at the time. I forgot about him being on there, and one of my friends found a video of him online and sent me a link and called me and said,"Dude check your E-mail, you won't believe this - this guy can break a glass with his voice!" So, I went over to my parents and got online to see what he was talking about.And then I remembered seeing him on Mythbusters, and ordered his book right then and there.

And that changed my life.

I don't know how to get music on here. Sadly, I don't have access to the Internet on a regular basis - No computer. I'm staying at my ex's apartment while she's out of town at a wedding; I'm Dog and cat sitting, and since I'm off today, I've been up all night playing around online.
:p

I never could get this forum to work when I had a PC, for some reason HC always locked up on me when I tried to post. (Just look at my join date and look at my first post date - I couldn't actually post until last night. LOL)



C

[Bajazz]

Let me get this straight--You went from not being able to carry a tune, with poor tone, to a clear voice with FOUR OCTAVES? (I assume you can also carry a tune now.)

And this from working with a BOOK? :rolleyes:I have pretty much the same experience, but with another book. Problem for me is that the first book did very little for range, as it stated that when you've reached the range wall, you can't go beyond it. But technique, sound and pitch-wise I revolutioned my voice in few weeks. It's not something I just imagine, friends come up and ask what the hell I have done with my voice.

The range-work came later when i started using Brett Mannings material, and I too extended the 4 octaves range. (See attached file of a range check I did for some sceptics on another board) It took me some work and time only because I was very sceptical if it was possible...

Using books to learn is very possible if you're very disciplined. Actually I jumped of my vocal lessons at this time, cause I found out I could improve faster if i spent gas money on instruction material and driving time + lesson time on self study. Then again I'm the typical self study guy.Well, as someone who has always struggled with his voice, and who has taken two years of private voice lessons with a great instructor, and who practices regularly at least 30 minutes a day--and who is still not a great singer and who possesses on a good day about an octave and a half of usable notes--let's say I'm skeptical.A good start is using those 30 minutes on range work and try to get rid of the sceptism.Don't get me wrong, I own and I've read Jaime's book and I do believe it's good (despite what seems to me a misplaced emphasis on extending range); but your claims are, well, a bit extreme, no?

Perhaps you're right, I don't know. I hope so, as it would mean there is genuine hope for all of us who struggle with singing. Maybe you're exaggerating how bad you were up front, rather than how good you've become.There are lots of people who have a wider range than a piano. Everyone with healthy cords can acomplish this with lots of work. Well it might be a bit freakish, but it's possible. 4 octaves is no problem FOR SOMEONE WHO DO THE WORK AND BELIEVE IT.

[Bajazz]

I put in a minimum of 30 minutes a day, seven days a week, and before I go on stage I do the full 30 minute routine, but I do a 10 minute breathing routine first using this breathing thing I bought that increases your lung power. I'm pissed though, I just found out they lowered the price of it - after I already spent $50 on the same thing!
Argh!
:facepalm:CBut ask yourself: Is it worth $50??? I thought so...:thu:

BTW, can you tell me a bit about your practice routine? Do you use the VSR drill?

[Consume]

But ask yourself: Is it worth $50??? I thought so...:thu:

BTW, can you tell me a bit about your practice routine? Do you use the VSR drill?


Is it worth it? I guess that depends on your goal. I can sustain notes for over 20 seconds. I will assure you that this training program is definitely the reason why; I saw no major gains in my ability to sustain notes, just using RYV's programs. They gave me range, but not the longevity I am interested in having and maintaining. So for me it has been worth the $50. When I first started tryingto sing, I took voice lessons from this woman who was a trainer from Nashville, or as I call it Gnashville. The lessons were $50 for an hour. The only thing I got out of her, was that she didn't actually have a clue about Rock singing, didn't know how to scream, and she assumed all men wanted to sing like Clay Aiken. Meanwhile, I'm trying to figure out how I can hurt other people with my voice.:p You know, maximum volume sustained over a long perod of time. Paying her $50 an hour was a waste of $50, but buying this thing really wasnt' - I just hatet he fact that if I had waited I could have gotten it on sale for $30 something - but I haven't seen an advertisement for it on The Voice Connection, but one of my friends told me Jaime Vendera is endorsing this breathing program.

Yes, I use the VSR for approximately 15 minutes before practice, Just as Jaime Vendera advises in "Raise Your Voice". Then, depending upon my schedule, I practice between 30 and 45 minutes per day, but it's 30 minutes at a minimum.




C

[Jersey Jack]

Well, okay then: :thu::thu::thu: it is!!!!

I have cast aside my skepticism and look forward to hearing these octaves at some point.

The problem with books/DVDs is that they provide no feedback. Because the sounds we hear inside our heads differ so dramatically from the sounds that others hear when we sing, it's very hard to tell whether one is making progress on exercizes. Recording oneself helps, but (as I said in another thread) one normally requires quite a bit of time to learn how to appreciate the sound of one's own voice. And only then can one focus fully on the quality of voice in the exercizes.

A more philosophical question: Why the focus on accumulating octaves? It seems gimicky to me, as does Jaime's glass-breaking--impressive no doubt, but so is a juggler or a dancing monkey.

Where's the art in this? Would someone singing a fine song in octave four move me emotionally, or would I be focused instead on the singer's awesome talent. :bor: The singer should serve the song, with the primary goal of engaging or moving the audience emotionally. To focus too much on the singer's ability is to compromise the performance (which is why I was always bored by guitar shredding, drum solos, and verbal gymnastics as in Celine Dion).

But to each his own. A goal is a goal, and reaching it is a true accomplishment. I mean that! :thu:

[Bajazz]

The problem with books/DVDs is that they provide no feedback. Because the sounds we hear inside our heads differ so dramatically from the sounds that others hear when we sing, it's very hard to tell whether one is making progress on exercizes. Recording oneself helps, but (as I said in another thread) one normally requires quite a bit of time to learn how to appreciate the sound of one's own voice. And only then can one focus fully on the quality of voice in the exercizes.Actually, when you buy the book you get access to a great online forum where Jaimie takes time to listen to clips, comment and answer quiestions.

A more philosophical question: Why the focus on accumulating octaves? It seems gimicky to me, as does Jaime's glass-breaking--impressive no doubt, but so is a juggler or a dancing monkey.It's not a gimmick to have a wide range. I travel around playing gigs and when you sing Johnny Cash tunes and AC/DC songs you simply just need the range as a tool doing your job.Where's the art in this? Would someone singing a fine song in octave four move me emotionally, or would I be focused instead on the singer's awesome talent. The singer should serve the song, with the primary goal of engaging or moving the audience emotionally. To focus too much on the singer's ability is to compromise the performance (which is why I was always bored by guitar shredding, drum solos, and verbal gymnastics as in Celine Dion).As mentioned, range is one of many tools in singing. Some songs are deep bass low and move the listener, say by a sad feel. Then a High vocals with lots of energy moves another listener to another feeling with adrenalie kicks. That's art.

I agree on the wanking stuff, shredders do nothing for me. But shredding as a effect in one solo on the night is fine and can make a point. I like variation. And by all means: Lot's of singers do fine with a smaller range! There's much things you can do with your voice. And being not-techniqual is OK also. Someone needs to write great lyrics too.... :thu:

[Consume]

Well, okay then: :thu::thu::thu: it is!!!!

I have cast aside my skepticism and look forward to hearing these octaves at some point.

The problem with books/DVDs is that they provide no feedback. Because the sounds we hear inside our heads differ so dramatically from the sounds that others hear when we sing, it's very hard to tell whether one is making progress on exercizes. Recording oneself helps, but (as I said in another thread) one normally requires quite a bit of time to learn how to appreciate the sound of one's own voice. And only then can one focus fully on the quality of voice in the exercizes.

A more philosophical question: Why the focus on accumulating octaves? It seems gimicky to me, as does Jaime's glass-breaking--impressive no doubt, but so is a juggler or a dancing monkey.

Where's the art in this? Would someone singing a fine song in octave four move me emotionally, or would I be focused instead on the singer's awesome talent. :bor: The singer should serve the song, with the primary goal of engaging or moving the audience emotionally. To focus too much on the singer's ability is to compromise the performance (which is why I was always bored by guitar shredding, drum solos, and verbal gymnastics as in Celine Dion).

But to each his own. A goal is a goal, and reaching it is a true accomplishment. I mean that! :thu:

Ultimately, it depends upon what your goal is, and what kind of music you are into.

For me, my goal was to be the best possible singer I could be. And that means, to be able to hold out notes for extended periods of time, to be as loud as possible (which requires a very strong vocal mechanism) and to have the widest range possible. You can only go so low, because you can only loosen/slacken your vocal chords so much, but you can tighten them enough to be able to sing all the way off a keyboard IF you choose to put in the practice time and get up in the top of the Whistle register. (Whistle is that Mariah Carey dolphin thing. LOL Lot's of men can do it, and some hit it higher than she does.... but most of the guys who can do it are vocal coaches.

Most rock singers, actually my experience has been most singers in general, have little to no training, and don't have a clue how to take care of their instrument.

Musically, what I'm into is essentially modern "Opera", backed by a Metal band. So for me, it is worth it to put in the time to have complete control of my voice. and for my own pleasure I sing Broadway style pieces like "Gethsemane" from Jesus Christ Superstar (the best version to me is the John Farnham version. Farnham was the singer of The Little River band for some time. the guy has a simply incredible and passionate voice and delivery.) and things that Classical singer Michael Ball sings.

Whereas, for you - because I'm not sure what you are doing musically - it may not be of interest to you to have an extremely wide range. I mean, let's face it - Neil Young does what Neil Young does and he I doubt his training to the point where he had a super wide range would do him any good, because he sings with a ton of emotion and passion and people connect with that.... and for the type of music he's doing, he doesn't really need a supred wide vocal range, but for what I'm trying to do.. Think of it this way:

It's Wagnerian Opera-influenced Heavy Metal.

I know, sounds nuts.

LOL

[strat2]

I am really learning that I need to add some of the techniques you and others have mentioned here.

I don't really know what Bel Canto style is.

My neighbor stopped me one day and told me how much she loved my singing and that I could do it any time, and was wondering how much I would charge to sing at a party. Well, it was her birthday party at this church, and I did it for free. I kinda can't do wrong now. She wants to be my manager. lol. (be advised, I live in a place that resembles mars, and has the cultural depth of a zip lock bag. So, it ain't tough to sparkle.)

I use the term loosely, it refers to a style started about 100 years or so ago, It's the drawn out melodic style used by guys like Mario Lanza, Not quite opera but draws from some of the rich harmonic technique. I use the term for anything real singy-traditional form Lanza to Jack Jones, but not things Like Beatles or anything obviously in Hard Rock Genre, though some Rock singers do benefit from understanding shared principles.

Your neighbor.....:idea: does she do house calls? I could use neighbors like that.....:looks for $5 bill: :lol:



☺

[loveyourstarfish]

I start by doing lip trills, and then moving through some different vowel sounds like "gug", "nay" "goo" "gee", etc with differing consanants. I go through these with different scale exercises for about 15-20 mins to warm up a bit. Then I may go through some songs that are in different areas of my voice to see how my voice is feeling at that point. I try to focus on being relaxed and loose during this as I have a bad tendency to bring back bad habits before I started training. Usually I'm doing this in my car haha.

I've had some odd looks doing lip trills in rush hour

:p

[SevenString]

1) I do a half hour of vocal exercises/warm-ups during my morning shower.

2) I work on individual songs (melody, phrasing, dynamics, pronunciation) as needed.

rinse and repeat.

[Andrew JD]

I might be able to add something to this-

My blood flows in the metal vein....I mix up the singing/screaming thing.

Many out there generally put everything with a scream in it in the trash bin with the "No talent" tag....and for a while I thought way myself.

I grew up on Queensryche, Dream Theater, Alice In Chains, Fates Warning...etc...Faith No More...King's X...

Got older...got heavier....Pantera, Mudvayne, Tool, Killswitch Engage, Trivium...

I've been playing guitar for 15 years now....but really wanted to focus on vocals.

Here's what I sound like-
http://soundclick.com/share?songid=7017573

My warm up routine-

3-4 hours before a practice/performance I start what I call rev-ups. I stole it from the Melissa Cross DVD (search youtube). You basically put your lips together and hum hmmmmMMMMMMMMAAAAAYYYY, hhhhhMMMMMMMMBBBBBEEEEEEE....

As long as your teeth start rattling, you're doing it right. Just start slow....most often, I drink a cup of tea and just do the MMMMMmmmm's without the letters.

If you're going aggressive, I throw some stuff in about an hour after the rev-ups....just a little, "Hhhhheeeeeeeeyyyyyyyyyaaaa"....that's with the Lamb of God-ish type voice.....only a couple of those...rest about 15 mins....do some more revs...

I'll pull out an acoustic and do some light stuff, generally Alice In Chains "Nutshell" and "Down In A Hole"....and then "Simple Man".

Then ya chill for a while....essentially, you're voice is warmed up at this point....but it won't be for long...

I give it a good hour-hour and a half before doing anything else....

In the past year I've stood through 7 hour recording sessions, hours upon hours of livetime screaming/singing my ass off...

[MikeFairbrother]

Yeah, I generally practice in the car to and from work every day (Mon-Sun):

-In the morning on the way to work, I will usually do basic technical exercises: breathing exercises, scales, lip trills, sirens, etc... (ten minutes).

-In the afternoon on the way home, I will sing a couple of my favorite songs (either to a CD or a cappella)... (ten minutes).

-Then in the evening, driving my wife to work, ten more minutes of exercises, and on the way home, ten minutes of songs. And the same thing for when I pick her up from work.

So, that is about an hours worth of practice split up over the course of the day.