tendency to tense/close off the throat

[jerrye]

How do you deal with a tendency to tense/close off your throat just before and during phrases with higher notes? I sometimes go way low, in response, and still struggle to relax in the right places.

Thanks, Jerry

[search now]

you are right ! you should be relaxed and open ,no locked jaws, muscles loose in throat ,chest OPEN AND LOOSE. but push and tense from the gut.

remeber never sing consonants ,singing is different than talking

[orbm1]

you are right ! you should be relaxed and open ,no locked jaws, muscles loose in throat ,chest OPEN AND LOOSE. but push and tense from the gut.

remeber never sing consonants ,singing is different than talking

Hi,

Would you please elaborate about not singing consonants???

Thanks!

Omar :thu:

[SevenString]

Hi,

Would you please elaborate about not singing consonants???

Thanks!

Omar :thu:

Yeah, about that. Sorry, but I don't really agree with the "don't sing consonants" thing. To my ear, some of the best singers are the ones who sing VERY clearly and intelligibly.

One of my early influences, in terms of pronunciation, was a guy named Carl Albert. His diction was VERY crisp when he sang, yet his range was unbelievable and his delivery was effortless. My sense of diction was one of the things I picked up by listening to him.

Some of my current favorites, such as Jorn Lande and Russell Allen also pronounce their consonants very crisply.


That said, the relaxation thing is correct. One of the key problems people often have when going for the highs is when the larynx (adam's apple) "hikes up" in the throat. If you can relax and keep THIS from happening, much of the rest can fall into place automatically.

How to do this? Here are some exercises:

1) Sing a series of warmup scales and arpeggios using the "eh" sound with your mouth WIDE open, and sticking your tongue out as far as it will go. Sticking out the tongue keeps certain throat muscles from tensing up, so it helps keep that larynx down.

2) Lay down on the floor, on your back. Put a heavy book on your chest so you can really feel the rising and falling. Now, at a speaking volume, sing some vocal exercises, concentrating on keeping the volume even and your body relaxed, even as you go up in your range.

3) Lip rolls. Look 'em up on YouTube. It's worth it.

4) Watch yourself in a mirror or use your hand to GENTLY touch your adam's apple. Now, as you sing, if the larynx moves up AT ALL, stop what you are doing and concentrate on relaxing.


Fixing this tension problem will be fundamental to opening up your range. If you CAN, take a break from your "regular" singing regimen and focus on getting this fixed. Your "regular" singing will only re-enforce the bad habits, whereas taking a break from this and focusing on the relaxation issue will get you over this hurdle MUCH more quickly.

Finally, a good vocal coach can get you "fixed up" much more quickly than some advice over the internet. If you can find one and arrange for some lessons, with the specific idea of opening up your range, I recommend it highly.

[Aiken Drum]

Yeah, about that. Sorry, but I don't really agree with the "don't sing consonants" thing. To my ear, some of the best singers are the ones who sing VERY clearly and intelligibly.



Singing consonants involves holding on to the consonant, not with diction or pronunciation. The difference is like Mooooooom vs. MMMMoommmmmm. The vowels allow more airflow without going nasal.

[careful now]

Singing consonants involves holding on to the consonant, not with diction or pronunciation. The difference is like Mooooooom vs. MMMMoommmmmm. The vowels allow more airflow without going nasal.

then technically, the advice should be to not hold or sustain consonants, no? :poke: :lol:


:wave:

[GDan]

Best warmup for keeping the larynx low I find is ascending "goog"s. Keep the sound very low and dopey "ghhooooog", and cross in to headvoice soon rather than geting tense as you go high.

[SevenString]

Singing consonants involves holding on to the consonant, not with diction or pronunciation. The difference is like Mooooooom vs. MMMMoommmmmm. The vowels allow more airflow without going nasal.

Ah, now I get what it means. Interesting. In all my decades of singing, this is one piece of (what seems to me) obvious advice that I never heard, probably because I never had that issue. "Don't sing the consonants" is probably something heard in the context of voice lessons all the time, but I never heard or read it. Weird, now that I think about it.

Anyway, I guess I just misinterpreted the meaning in the way that the above "careful now" post is suggesting. I too would think you would say, "Don't sustain the consonants." for clarity's sake.


Anyway, yeah. Don't sing (sustain) the consonants! :lol:

[SevenString]

Best warmup for keeping the larynx low I find is ascending "goog"s. Keep the sound very low and dopey "ghhooooog", and cross in to headvoice soon rather than geting tense as you go high.

Yeah, good one! I forgot to post that. :thu:

[search now]

then technically, the advice should be to not hold or sustain consonants, no? :poke: :lol:


:wave:

try singing a melody with the consonant s...see? dont work

[Aiken Drum]

try singing a melody with the consonant s...see? dont work

Right. My example used "M" which people actually try to sing sometimes (and sometimes do effectively when they are making melodic noises between verses, etc.) Others that people try to "sing" or "sustain" often are N, L, R. S, not so much. D? Not at all. But, you get the idea.

[search now]

Right. My example used "M" which people actually try to sing sometimes (and sometimes do effectively when they are making melodic noises between verses, etc.) Others that people try to "sing" or "sustain" often are N, L, R. S, not so much. D? Not at all. But, you get the idea.

how about f or p? I sometimes hold an M to find my pitch before opening my mouth, sing a K for me.

[Al Koehn]

All sorts of good advice here. I agree with almost all of it. The "gug gug" exercise is the best I've come across to train your larynx to stay low in the throat when you go higher. Most of us don't have conscious control over their position (like we do with fingers and toes) so we need to train it through exercises. Just "thinking" the larynx down is very hard to do unless we've trained it. I described the "gug gug" exercise in another string, but I'll do it again. Using the sound "gug" on each note, sing a major arpeggio (broken or separated chord) For instance start on a low C and sing C-E-G-C -C-C-C-G-E-(back to low) C. After you've learned the melody, start the exercise on a low G. (G-B-D-G-G-G-G-D-B-C) and then move the melody up by half-steps. Have some fun with this by sounding kind of "Yogi Bearish". Feel the Gugs in the throat. As you move higher, mentally "look down" on the notes, rather than reaching for them. Try this a few times and you'll understand what I mean.

Then use "mum" instead of "Gug". And then other vowels starting them with a hard G or with an M. Remember to always inhale like you're beginning a yawn. This starts you off with the larynx in a low position. Get in the habit of always taking breath in for singing by feeling the yawn. You'll feel the back of your tongue (and larynx) go down and your uvula (the top of your throat opening) go up. Don't force any of this to happen. Use your imagination.

Remember that the sound of the voice, like all acoustic instruments is contoured from fatter low sounds to progressively thinner sounds as it sings higher. Thinner does not mean weaker. A big problem with many singers is that they try to keep the higher notes as fat as the lower ones. We can do that to some extent, but it limits the high range and damages the voice.

Concerning consonants: if you are having trouble with certain high notes try dropping your jaw more and softening the consonants. Crisp sounding consonants work very well until we move into the very high range. Instead of singing "Pretty", try singing more like "Britty." Instead of singing "Towel" sing something like "Dowel". Instead of singing "Cat" sing something like "Gat".

al

[jerrye]

Great advice, thanks!

[jerrye]

This is still excellent advice and I haven't seen the ggg and the tongue "extension" elsewhere. I haven't done these consistently, but the results feel right each time I do these exercises. My voice teacher never suggested anything that seemed as effective.

[Consume]

Gug and Mum never really worked for me.

If you suck on the inside of your bottom lip, once a second, and do it about 50 times in a row, it activates the swallowing muscles and will train your larynx to stay in a lowered position, without having to try to "hold the larynx down". So do this exercise every day and your larynx will train to stay in a lowered position.

[BigVoiceTenor]

A shot of Jack or Jim just before singing "that song".

1. It will relax the throat muscles a little.
2. Inhibates your tendancies to "NOT ALLOW YOURSELF THE NOTES"

I have 2 backup singers who at times may "draw back" for fear they "wont sounds as good" as me. However when they have a bit of "liquid courage" they're fine.

Technically I'll be shunned for this....

Realistically I may have a point....

Anyone (like Jersey Jack I'm guessing) may know what I mean.

~~~~

I thought twice about posting this...but I feel it has legitimate holdings.

Sometimes crude measures beat technical boundries

[Consume]

A shot of Jack or Jim just before singing "that song".

1. It will relax the throat muscles a little.
2. Inhibates your tendancies to "NOT ALLOW YOURSELF THE NOTES"

I have 2 backup singers who at times may "draw back" for fear they "wont sounds as good" as me. However when they have a bit of "liquid courage" they're fine.

Technically I'll be shunned for this....

Realistically I may have a point....

Anyone (like Jersey Jack I'm guessing) may know what I mean.

~~~~

I thought twice about posting this...but I feel it has legitimate holdings.

Sometimes crude measures beat technical boundries


I know what you are saying, but the problem with that concept is that the alcohol dries out your vocal cords. It does have some merit though because people who play in bars - do drink, and do get stage fright, but wouldn't it be better to have trained your voice to the point where you don't need any "liquid courage"?

We had a band here in town who used to do barbershop quartet style vocal practices of their songs, and a bunch of my friends laughed at them mocking them, that is, until they saw them live. Those guys had perfect harmonies live, better than anyone I've ever seen. They totally had the Def Leppard, Sweet (think "Love is like Oxygen") background vocals down to a T.
But they couldn't have pulled it off if they had needed alcohol.

And, if you're going to drink any alcohol, you need to make sure that you continue to drink lukewarm water onstage.

One reason that shot of alcohol helps, is that it thins out the blood a little, the flip-side of that is that it could cause you to rupture a vocal cord. I've seen a female singer rushed offstage, spitting up blood, because of that very thing.... so there can be danger to it if you've got somebody who is equating air pressure with volume.... she was a "belter" for a local metal band, and was a MAJOR alcoholic - the club she was playing in only served beer, and she had brought her own Jack Daniels and was putting it away as fast as she could.
Thy had to rush her to the hospital, and as far as I know that was the end of her singing career, because I've never seen her since.

[Jersey Jack]

A shot of Jack or Jim just before singing "that song".

Technically I'll be shunned for this....

Realistically I may have a point....

Anyone (like Jersey Jack I'm guessing) may know what I mean.

Yes, indeed, BigVoiceTenor--Although I stay away from Jack and Jim, a few sips of wine do the job nicely.

And by sipping wine I usually don't fall off the stage until well into the 3rd set!

Seriously, though, if it's good enough for Tom Waits...uh...:facepalm:

[blackeyed28]

hello, i'm new around these forums so i've been reading like mad for days and it's all very very helpful.

Concerning consonants: if you are having trouble with certain high notes try dropping your jaw more and softening the consonants. Crisp sounding consonants work very well until we move into the very high range. Instead of singing "Pretty", try singing more like "Britty." Instead of singing "Towel" sing something like "Dowel". Instead of singing "Cat" sing something like "Gat".

regarding consonants, ...this is very interesting and i'm anxious to try this technique. i have trouble on some high notes at the end of journey's "faithfully". i find the the "F" sound in "faithfully" very hard, ..so what i've been doing live is just dropping it and i move into the mic late, ..so you hear "aithfully" instead. sounds terrible, i know, ..but it makes it so much easier for me. any advice ?? thanks!

[blackeyed28]

here is a snipit (console recording) from last saturday's gig so you can hear what i'm talking about. leaving out the "Fah" in "Faithfully", for whatever reason, makes it so much easier on me.

FaithfullySnip.mp3 (http://www.blackeyedsusan.cc/FaithfullySnip.mp3)

[Consume]

hello, i'm new around these forums so i've been reading like mad for days and it's all very very helpful.


regarding consonants, ...this is very interesting and i'm anxious to try this technique. i have trouble on some high notes at the end of journey's "faithfully". i find the the "F" sound in "faithfully" very hard, ..so what i've been doing live is just dropping it and i move into the mic late, ..so you hear "aithfully" instead. sounds terrible, i know, ..but it makes it so much easier for me. any advice ?? thanks!

You can try a V instead of an F.

Consonant substitution is definitely something you need to take into consideration. For T you can use a D. In the context of a song,the people in the audience won't notice it - singers have been taught to do this for probably hundreds of years.

[stevolives]

Concerning consonants: if you are having trouble with certain high notes try dropping your jaw more and softening the consonants. Crisp sounding consonants work very well until we move into the very high range. Instead of singing "Pretty", try singing more like "Britty." Instead of singing "Towel" sing something like "Dowel". Instead of singing "Cat" sing something like "Gat".

al



Hi All, these are great tips, especially the discussion about using gat for cat and so forth, I think when done subtly, the listener generally has no idea. I have a question about a particular song, well phrase actually. I perform Billy Joels New York State of Mind in my vocal/piano shows and it is at the absolute top of my range. The first high phrase is one that continuously troubles me. It is "Hop a flight to Miami beach....' The word hop is on that high A and a very tough sound to keep the folds adducted, for me at least. I've heard some singers go so far as to sing "Take a flight to Miami beach.." Probably saying "Dake a flight to Miami Beach..." The next high part is never a problem, "Been high in the Rockies..." and I say been high almost like 1 word, Been-eye to the rockies... Is effortless compared to the hop a flight phrase. Don't know how to approach that. part of me thinks simply that, 'yes, it’s just a hard part of the song' but would like to know opinions/advice. Also, Billy lowers it generally 1 whole step now live. I know he can still hit the notes but I am curious why he chooses not to. Maybe he's just not that into it anymore, dunno. He used to have this great highish mix, so effortless, wish I could do that.

[SevenString]

I must be an oddball or something because vowel and consonant substitutions don't really do anything for me. :idk:

[romvert]

Gug and Mum never really worked for me.

If you suck on the inside of your bottom lip, once a second, and do it about 50 times in a row, it activates the swallowing muscles and will train your larynx to stay in a lowered position, without having to try to "hold the larynx down". So do this exercise every day and your larynx will train to stay in a lowered position.
Besides ending up with a red swollen lip, physical exercise will do no good; it's always the mind that we're trying to train and predispose here. It's all about the right sensation for the correct technique.

[brenda b]

I agree w/not using the "liquid courage." I'd rather train myself to overcome any vocal difficulties w/out the use of anything because then you might learn to rely on that method and what if you couldn't get any alcohol some night? You'd be terrified that you would't be successful. The best way is to overcome it yourself it's a natural self-confident booster to accomplish something all on your own.

[Al Koehn]

Good advice from Consume. Try singing "vaithfully". The "v" is a softer verision on the "f" and, when substituded is usually easier to sing on high notes.

"Hard" consonants are often more difficult to sing in the high range, and it helps to use their "softer' versions: "F" (change to) "V". "P" (change to) "B". "K" (change to ) "G". ("Kah" would change to "gah". "T" (change to) "D".

Al

[AzraelsWings]

hello, i'm new around these forums so i've been reading like mad for days and it's all very very helpful.



regarding consonants, ...this is very interesting and i'm anxious to try this technique. i have trouble on some high notes at the end of journey's "faithfully". i find the the "F" sound in "faithfully" very hard, ..so what i've been doing live is just dropping it and i move into the mic late, ..so you hear "aithfully" instead. sounds terrible, i know, ..but it makes it so much easier for me. any advice ?? thanks!

Place your bottom lip up against your upper teeth as it is in an f sound, exhale, in short bits of air, as lightly as possible. Slowly add more air until you get the lightest f sound possible. Sing it that way. Add air until its recognizable.

You could also try mentally focusing on the first vowel sound (ay) in the word faithfully.

[AzraelsWings]

Good advice from Consume. Try singing "vaithfully". The "v" is a softer verision on the "f" and, when substituded is usually easier to sing on high notes.

"Hard" consonants are often more difficult to sing in the high range, and it helps to use their "softer' versions: "F" (change to) "V". "P" (change to) "B". "K" (change to ) "G". ("Kah" would change to "gah". "T" (change to) "D".

Al

Fun fact—the "soft" consonants discussed are the voiced versions of their corresponding unvoiced "hard" ones. Voiced consonants are ones that require the vocal folds to vibrate. (B, V, D, G, R, J, L, Z, the voiced version of "sh" heard in vision). These consonants, along with the four nasals, are sometimes called singable consonants. They can be sung, purely, without making your vocal chords cease vibration. Thus, they are naturally easier to sing, as they blend more naturally into the vowel.

[Consume]

Besides ending up with a red swollen lip, physical exercise will do no good; it's always the mind that we're trying to train and predispose here. It's all about the right sensation for the correct technique.


I've never gotten a red swollen lip from doing this exercise and I do it a few hundred times a day.


You might think it is only the mind you are trying to train, but if you don't train the muscles within your throat and singing mechanism, then you are wasting your time. If you just think about singing all the time in an attempt to "train the mind" but don't actually practice vocalizing, you aren't going to have the same outcome as somebody who trains the muscles involved so that their muscles are able to coordinate well in the singing process.

[Consume]

Good advice from Consume. Try singing "vaithfully". The "v" is a softer verision on the "f" and, when substituded is usually easier to sing on high notes.

"Hard" consonants are often more difficult to sing in the high range, and it helps to use their "softer' versions: "F" (change to) "V". "P" (change to) "B". "K" (change to ) "G". ("Kah" would change to "gah". "T" (change to) "D".

Al

Actually Al,

I didn't know that you had already posted on Consonant Substitution in the thread.

BTW, you need to go kick Midnight's scrawny butt up between his shoulder blades. You gave him one of the greatest voices in metal and he's wasted it.
:cry:
He was a personal favorite of mine for years.

He gave me a complex for years because I couldn't hit up in the high end of my range. LOL