Vietnamese & Chinese Guitars

[marcellis]

One of the major industries here is counterfeiting stuff, watches, handbags, shirts, I-Pods, athletic shoes, inter alia.
You name it - they can fake it.

Here is what they cannot yet fake on guitars though.

1. Tuners. The tuners on the fakes will not be Grovers, Schallers, Gotohs, and nobody has yet learned to fake these to my knowledge.
Check the shape of the keys, angle & location of tuners too. Tune it up. Play something. Does it hold?

2. Setup. The guitars here may sound fabulous. But very few of them will play very well.
Of course, I've seen real Gibsons in the store that have frets like railroad ties. My son bought an new SG in GC
that he had to spend $200 at Jimmie Foster's shop to get the frets usable.

3. The fonts on labels, decals. Check for spelling errors too. English is not their native language.

4. The font on the serial numbers (on the label and engraved behind the headstock in the case of Guilds.)

5. The serial numbers themselves. Check it against manufacturer's serial numbers & the years the guitars were
manufactured. The counterfeiters aren't yet that careful.

I've seen fake Les Pauls for sale here a few times. One look at the price was enough to know it was a fake.
But taking a second look at the tuners and that was all you needed to see.

Here is what they do extremely well:

1. Woods - the woods on local guitars (legit & counterfeit), are as good or better than the woods on the brands in GC.
They have been working with wood, laquer and inlay for thousands of years over here. They're really good.

2. Sound - the best guitars from this part of the world sound as good as anything GC sells today.

3. Pickups - Korean counterfeiters have mastered fake pickups. I'd rather have a Korean counterfeit Fishman Prefix than a real one.

4. Inlay: Another way to spot a fake guitar is the inlay. The inlay artists here are better than the ones working in the West.
But sometimes, they are too good. If you see a Gibson, Martin, Guild, inter alia, and the inlay dazzles you - it may be a Vietnamese fake.

Here is a photo of a real Marcellis brand Archtop. It's an off-brand. Nobody has yet counterfeited it
to my knowledge.

http://music.marcellis.net/full_view.JPG

That brings up a final point, prevention.

1. Don't buy from the internet unless it is a well-known dealer.

2. Don't buy brands or models that are commonly faked.

In Vietnam, I've seen fake Martin D-28's, Gibson Les Pauls & Fender Strats. That's all.
I don't think they know about a lot of the other premium brands or models yet.

[Anderton]

Great tips, thanks.

[marcellis]

I forgot something important - neck shape.*

For some reason, I don't think they've mastered the fast neck over here yet. So if you run into a Les Paul with a thick, clunky neck that otherwise looks and sounds perfect, it's a fake.

My luthier is one of the best around. He liked my F-65ce Guild and wanted to build a guitar that incorporated a couple of the strong points of the Guild. Note: As you can see, he did not counterfeit it.)

He built a really beautiful guitar. But the one area where it falls short is the neck. He couldn't duplicate the fast neck of the F-65ce. So he made his hybrid guitar into an quasi-archtop and used an archtop neck.

http://music.marcellis.net/hybrid_natural_w-guild.JPG

[TRevMFB]

not sure how others feel, but personally say I wanted to pickup a gibson sg.

yet my wallet prevents me to do so, I'd rather buy a vietnamese "gibson" than a real Epiphone SG.

a friend of mine has a classic les paul knockoff that plays and sounds pretty close to the real thing.

yet of course, this would be me willingly knowing I was buying a fake, and would never try to sell it off as a real.

[marcellis]

not sure how others feel, but personally say I wanted to pickup a gibson sg.

yet my wallet prevents me to do so, I'd rather buy a vietnamese "gibson" than a real Epiphone SG.

Legality and ethics aside, I'll bet the Epiphone has a faster neck.
Fortunately, shipping costs are so high, it makes no sense to ship a
fake Gibson from Vietnam to the US. The only way it makes economic
sense is if the buyer is on the ground here, or if the guitar is already where
he or she lives.

They make some really great guitars here - stunning in fact.
There's no need to buy a knock-off of a name brand when you can
buy a guitar that's utterly unique to you. For instance, my marcellis
brand archtop. It's the only one in the world.

It's not an L-5. But it's a keeper. I geh-ron-tee.

[PurpleStain]

Legality and ethics aside, I'll bet the Epiphone has a faster neck.
Fortunately, shipping costs are so high, it makes no sense to ship a
fake Gibson from Vietnam to the US. The only way it makes economic
sense is if one is on the ground here, or if the guitar is already where
you live.

They make some really great guitars here - stunning in fact.
There's no need to buy a knock-off of a name brand when you can
buy a guitar that's utterly unique to you. For instance, my marcellis
brand archtop. It's the only one in the world.

It's not an L-5. But it's a keeper. I geh-ron-tee.

Ha, why do you keep interjecting your marcellis? :cop:

[marcellis]

Purple Stain: "Ha, why do you keep interjecting your marcellis? "

Sorry.

I guess I'm a show-off, a narcissist, a megalomaniac.

But that's just me. :idk:

I could have bought a fake Les Paul I suppose.
But my name isn't Les Paul.

TRevMFB:"not sure how others feel, but personally say I wanted to pickup a gibson sg.

yet my wallet prevents me to do so, I'd rather buy a vietnamese "gibson" than a real Epiphone SG."

I forgot something. There are no Vietnamese Gibson guitars. So buying one would be impossible.
There are Vietnamese guitars that counterfeit Gibson logos & infringe upon Gibson designs.

But as you know, they're not Gibsons.

If you're going to buy a Vietnamese guitar. Put your name on the headstock, like I did with my
one-of-a-kind Marcellis archtop (http://music.marcellis.net/full_view.JPG).

[TRevMFB]

on the few I've played, the neck felt better than my Gibson SG-X which is an extremely fatneck for the 24 frets.


Fortunately, shipping costs are so high, it makes no sense to ship a
fake Gibson from Vietnam to the US. The only way it makes economic
sense is if the buyer is on the ground here, or if the guitar is already where
he or she lives.


the 2 companies I'm thinking of off the top of my head, on average are just under $400 shipped to the united states per guitar.

[TRevMFB]

Purple Stain:


I forgot something. There are no Vietnamese Gibson guitars. So buying one would be impossible.
There are Vietnamese guitars that counterfeit Gibson logos & infringe upon Gibson designs.

But as you know, they're not Gibsons.

If you're going to buy a Vietnamese guitar. Put your name on the headstock, like I did with my
one-of-a-kind Marcellis archtop (http://music.marcellis.net/full_view.JPG).

I should've said Chinese made instead.

[marcellis]

"on the few I've played, the neck felt better than my Gibson SG-X which is an extremely fatneck for the 24 frets. "

The US-made Gibson SG that my son bought had some of the worst
frets I'd ever seen on a "good" guitar. He got a good price on it.
I think he paid $550 or something - new at GC. They just wanted to
get rid of it I think.

It had a fat neck too. But the frets were truly horrendous.
I'm not ragging Gibson. Some of their guitars are fabulous,
the L-5 for instance or a burst J-200. But I'd rather have my
name on the headstock than have a counterfeit "Gibson" or
Fender logo.

[fuzztone]

Here is a link to an interesting webpage about Vietnam "Serviceman" copies made in the 60's and 70's (http://www.jimshine.com/phillipino/vietnam_serviceman_copies.htm)

[marcellis]

Thanks Fuzztone. Come to think of it, I've seen SG-styled guitars here.
But I've never seen counterfeit SG's with logos that present them as Gibsons.

Whoah! That page has a counterfeit Fender Jaguar. I've never seen one
over here.

http://www.jimshine.com/phillipino/Fake%20Jaguar3.jpg

TRevMFB: "the 2 companies I'm thinking of off the top of my head, on average are just under $400 shipped to the united states per guitar."

Is that guitar and shipping? Or is that just shipping?

There are all sorts of problems with buying counterfeit stuff. I'll give you an example.

My GF bought a bunch of shirts for my sons back in the US. She thinks I pay too much
for shirts. So I let her do the shopping one time. She came back with a bunch of horrendous
counterfeit Polos & La Costes.

I noticed a lot of them had labels that said 100% Cotton.
The shirts weren't cotton. They were polyester.

OK. The labels said they were Polo & LaCoste.
But they weren't Polo & LaCoste. They were fakes.

Since the shirts were counterfeit to begin with, the manufacturer may have figured,
"What's the harm in putting one more label on it to tell the rubes it's 100% cotton?"

I wouldn't buy a counterfeit guitar. I'd rather buy an original one and put my name
on the headstock.

[TRevMFB]

TRevMFB:

Is that guitar and shipping? Or is that just shipping?

fully shipped, the average is $280 for the guitar and flat rate $110 for shipping.

[marcellis]

I wouldn't do it. First off, it's not a real Gibson. Secondly, it's illegal.
The seller is engaging in a criminal enterprise. If something goes wrong,
it's not reasonable to rely on him to make it right.

What happens for instance, if it never shows up? How are you going to pay?
By credit card? Is it reasonable to give your cc number to a criminal?

Thirdly, even if it does show up, you'll be getting polyester when the label says 100% cotton.

All of that hassle for a fake logo on a headstock?

I'd rather have my name inlaid on a headstock.

[Runn3r]

...the best vietnamese guitars,imo, have no alphabets or numerals...

...they have dragons...birds...planets...fire inlays which are quite incredible if done by hand though i suspect much is done by CNC...

...great value items for those who dunt like alphabets or numerals on their guitars....

[marcellis]

runner3: " ...the best vietnamese guitars,imo, have no alphabets or numerals...

...they have dragons...birds...planets...fire inlays which are quite incredible if done by hand though i suspect much is done by CNC...

...great value items for those who dunt like alphabets or numerals on their guitars.... ...the best vietnamese guitars,imo, have no alphabets or numerals...


I agree.

That is why I pointed out earlier that one should look for printing & font
errors in counterfeit guitars from this part of the world. It's stuff we
take for granted. But it is dead accurate in spotting a fake.

One of the best-sounding guitars I ever owned was a Vietnamese
Maple with dragons all over the place. Want to hear it?

Here it is. (http://marcellis.net/music/park_the_car_(Instrumental)by_Marc_Ellis.mp3)

People who hear it think it's one of my Guilds.
Uh uh. It's a Vietnamese hand-made with dragons
on the fretboard. I gave it away to a local singer.
(I'll need a favor from her down the road.)

But the proof is in the recording. It's a fantastic
recording guitar.

One of the favorite guitars I stilll own is a Rosewood B&S & Cedar
top, jumbo-cutaway slot-head.

(Yes. You read it right. It's a jumbo-cutaway slot-head.)
I was in a mood. I told the luthier to make me a jumbo cutaway
slot-head.

It's got dueling dragons on the back. It sounds incredible.
I've never heard any guitars that sound like it, except on
Eagles' records.

[HoobaStunk]

About 3 or 4 years ago, wasn't there an US-based guitar outfit that decided to move their production from China to Viet Nam -- or at least add production in Viet Nam?

[marcellis]

About 3 or 4 years ago, wasn't there an US-based guitar outfit that decided to move their production from China to Viet Nam -- or at least add production in Viet Nam?

I don't know which company. But you can put it in the bank -
US companies will be building guitars here soon - if they're
not already here.

Cost of skilled labor? $50-100 per month.
Cost of material? Low. There is an abundance of exotic woods
like Rosewood and Mahogany over here.

[Runn3r]

...ever seen rosewood like this?!... :p

...asian rosewood...

http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff77/Runn3r_01/100_0294.jpg

http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff77/Runn3r_01/100_0295.jpg

[marcellis]

"...ever seen rosewood like this?!... "

Yeah. I think so.

It looks like SE Asian or "Vietnamese" Rosewood.
VN Rosewood has a more reddish tint than IR.

Am I right?

As far as B&S tonewoods go, VN Rosewood has a sweet sound.
More subdued and less metallic than IR. It has more high & low end
than Mahogany and a looser mid-range than Mahogany. But it won't overwhelm you
like IR and local Maple can overwhelm you.

My favorite B&S tonewoods from Vietnam are:

1. Maple
2. (tie) IR & VNR
3. Hog

The Maple B&S guitars here will knock your socks off.
They're the best-sounding Maples anywhere*.
They blow away Hog & Rosewood.
And I'm not the only one who thinks so.

You want to hear a Vietnamese Maple dreadnought?

HERE: (http://marcellis.net/music/park_the_car_(Instrumental)by_Marc_Ellis.mp3)

What a great guitar!

(* I suspect it's the high humidity.)

[Runn3r]

"...ever seen rosewood like this?!... "

Yeah. I think so.

It looks like SE Asian or "Vietnamese" Rosewood.
VN Rosewood has a more reddish tint than IR.

Am I right?

As far as B&S tonewoods go, VN Rosewood has a sweet sound.
More subdued and less metallic than IR. It has more high & low end
than Mahogany and a looser mid-range than Mahogany. But it won't overwhelm you
like IR and local Maple can overwhelm you.

My favorite B&S tonewoods from Vietnam are:

1. Maple
2. (tie) IR & VNR
3. Hog

The Maple B&S guitars here will knock your socks off.
They're the best-sounding Maples anywhere*.
They blow away Hog & Rosewood.
And I'm not the only one who thinks so.

You want to hear a Vietnamese Maple dreadnought?

HERE: (http://marcellis.net/music/park_the_car_(Instrumental)by_Marc_Ellis.mp3)

What a great guitar!

(* I suspect it's the high humidity.)

indeed marcellis

this came from Vietnam and i was told it was Vietnamese rosewood....

it has the same type of open pores at the polished stage like any other rosewood but this piece has a strong fiddleback figuring i have only seen in the less dense woods like maple...

and it is much redder than typical indian rw....like a paduak type of red...

i suspect it is not a dalbergia species but it is very hard indeed

[marcellis]

I like VN Rosewood a lot. It's much more beautiful than Indian Rosewood.
It doesn't have the big sound. But it has a lovely sound, nonetheless.
When I get a classical made here, I'll get it made with VNR.

Here are three guitars I bought in 2006. I gave the VNR to my son.
It was my favorite of the 3. I just loved how it looked & felt. You can see
it has the same reddish tint as the neck photo you posted.

I gave the IR to a client. It sounded better than the VNR.

And I kept the Maple Dragon because it sounded better than the other two
put together. Later on, I gave it to a local VN singer, after I bought a Maple Guild F-65ce.

http://music.marcellis.net/3guitars.JPG

[Runn3r]

absolutely beautiful guitars and inlays ... marcellis

i am a huge fan of such artistry

http://s238.photobucket.com/albums/ff77/Runn3r_01/?start=60

is my photobucket of pics ...just some samples of wht i accumulated when AUD was real high last yr and earlier this yr...

now if only i can get some of the VNR lumber in wide enough sizes to make a body of it....preferably with tht exquisite flame on me tele neck...but geez...it must be rare as hen's teeth

p.s. i am going for a bright guitar and i reckon this vnr neck will be just wht i am looking for...it not going to be acoustic so volume off the wood not important...

[AndThinkOfTexas]

So how does one in the US go about obtaining a custom, one of a kind acoustic such as those posted above? I'd much rather have one of those, opposed to the knock-offs - plus, I think the craftsmanship is superb.

[Runn3r]

i got my guitars from ebay...if you search for 'inlay guitar' you should be able to hit some of the sellers moving these pieces...some from vietnam ...some from taiwan...

majority are electric but there are also acoustics listed with similar designs/inlays

however, since marcellis lives in vietnam, he should be able to put you in touch with the actual luthiers/craftspeople doing this stuff who might be able to do a custom guitar for you ...

[marcellis]

"i got my guitars from ebay...if you search for 'inlay guitar' you should be able to hit some of the sellers moving these pieces...some from vietnam ...some from taiwan...

majority are electric but there are also acoustics listed with similar designs/inlays

however, since marcellis lives in vietnam, he should be able to put you in touch with the actual luthiers/craftspeople doing this stuff who might be able to do a custom guitar for you ...
"

There is a Taiwanese entrepreneur who is building here and shipping from Taiwan. I forget his name.
I tried to find his factory once. I couldn't locate the address. I found the street. But the address was wrong.

I would buy custom parts from him. I'd be very wary about buying guitars mail order from Vietnam.
Yes. I can put people in touch with my luthier. No problem.

"So how does one in the US go about obtaining a custom, one of a kind acoustic such as those posted above? I'd much rather have one of those, opposed to the knock-offs - plus, I think the craftsmanship is superb."

I'll put you in touch with my luthier if you email me.

But understand, this is very small scale. English isn't their first language.
And Texas is 12,000 miles away from Saigon. Shipping costs at least
$200...more if you do it Fed-EX or DHL.

So what happens if it arrives and there is something wrong?
You pay the shipping back?

The best way is order in advance. Fly here to pick it up.
You'll get a great vacation and a great guitar. Based on my experience,
I wouldn't do this mail order. And I've given it some hard thought.

[Runn3r]

There is a Taiwanese entrepreneur who is building here and shipping from Taiwan. I forget his name.
I tried to find his factory once. I couldn't locate the address. I found the street. But the address was wrong.

I would buy custom parts from him. I'd be very wary about buying guitars mail order from Vietnam.
Yes. I can put people in touch with my luthier. No problem.



I'll put you in touch with my luthier if you email me.

But understand, this is very small scale. English isn't their first language.
And Texas is 12,000 miles away from Saigon. Shipping costs at least
$200...more if you do it Fed-EX or DHL.

So what happens if it arrives and there is something wrong?
You pay the shipping back?

The best way is order in advance. Fly here to pick it up.
You'll get a great vacation and a great guitar. Based on my experience,
I wouldn't do this mail order. And I've given it some hard thought.

...aye marcellis...i was at first worried too when i bought off ebay but i have to tell you that my experience has been wonderful generally ...my main worry initially was shipping time

however, the guitars come in super fast! sometimes within a few days of end of auction/paypal payment ...even my local aussie suppliers interstate dont work this fast

i was also worried about acoustic instruments but all mine arrived safely and quickly ...and the wood did not crack or anything ...but then again i am in perth,aus which dont get as cold as some other more temperate climates

[marcellis]

runn3r,

If you're in Oz, you can fly here pretty cheap.

I know a seller in Oz who buys a lot of guitars here.
I think he has his own retail shops down under.

He told me he has a 10% return rate.
That's not bad.

I wouldn't hesitate to buy parts here.
I'd wouldn't want to buy the whole instrument
mail order though.

Any guitar bought here needs to be humidified in
most places. Saigon's average annual relative humidity is 80%.
Houston is 77%. New Orleans is 75%.

So unless someone lives in Houston or New Orleans,
these guitars will dry out if you ship them to the States.

But they make some instruments here that
sound as good or better than anything you can buy in
the West. The materials are better than most premium
brands because the woods are already here & inexpensive.
The labor is better in some ways, not in others. For better
and worse, they're still making them by hand here.

[Runn3r]

fly there?!?! the cost would amount to about 3 ebay guitars or 4 if i am lucky! heh

and as for re-badging of these items for western markets ...i am certain there are quite a few entrepenuers in the mix doing their thang

you are right in noting some of the deficiencies in the craftmanship espc in the area of frets but it dunt take much to rectify if you are handy with a flat file and sandpaper and metal polish :)

bought all my ebay guitars sight unseen(apart from the auction photos) and very few regrets...at the low prices i got them for i did not lose any sleep over the few not up to par pieces...

[marcellis]

You have the right attitude toward buying guitars from here. If everyone was like you,
I'd be selling guitars on EBay. Unfortunately, most people think ordering a guitar from Vietnam is like
ordering one from MF.

It's not.

No warranties. No free shipping if the buyer is not satisfied. If the guitar
arrives and the buyer isn't happy, he or she will pay to have it
fixed locally...or else pay to ship it back.

That's why I don't sell guitars. I know what to expect. And the money
is not worth the hassle, AFAIC.

[Runn3r]

...well..if everyone was like me i wouldnt have been able to get the pieces at resonably attractive prices now would i?! :p

...but seriously...if this occurs in future wherein folks learn enough to have the capacity to fix simple issues...espc ones requiring non power tools and ordinary household tools might be sufficient...i cant see how these affordable prices (currently on ebay) can be beat

afaic..the margins on these things are most likely very small even taking into account low wage rates and thus would be surprised to see a better value for money anywhere else where higher margins are the norm...

[marcellis]

I agree. The bargains are incredible. Buyers need to understand that they aren't buying from MF
when the order a guitar from Vietnam. There are no warranties. If something is wrong on arrival,
either they fix it where they live, or they negotiate with the insurance company.

I've priced shipping. Shipping to Oz is cheaper than shipping to the US.
I may be asking for too much. But I would insist on trackable shipping.

The way the company you bought your VN Rosewood neck from
manages shipping, is that it ships from VN to Taiwan (non trackable),
and from Taiwan to its final destination - trackable. It may be different for Oz.
But that's how they do it for the US.

Trackable shipping from VN to the USA costs a fortune. It was this,
coupled with the inevitable problems involved with dealing with musicians,
that persuaded me NOT to export guitars to the US. They can come here on vacations &
I'll help them out.

You are one of the lucky ones who realize what incredible bargains
there are to be had over here.

[Runn3r]

I agree. The bargains are incredible. Buyers need to understand that they aren't buying from MF
when the order a guitar from Vietnam. There are no warranties. If something is wrong on arrival,
either they fix it where they live, or they negotiate with the insurance company.

I've priced shipping. Shipping to Oz is cheaper than shipping to the US.
I may be asking for too much. But I would insist on trackable shipping.

The way the company you bought your VN Rosewood neck from
manages shipping, is that it ships from VN to Taiwan (non trackable),
and from Taiwan to its final destination - trackable. It may be different for Oz.
But that's how they do it for the US.

Trackable shipping from VN to the USA costs a fortune. It was this,
coupled with the inevitable problems involved with dealing with musicians,
that persuaded me NOT to export guitars to the US. They can come here on vacations &
I'll help them out.

You are one of the lucky ones who realize what incredible bargains
there are to be had over here.

the shipping i paid was roughly 100USD each guitar to aus and each time i won the auction and paid with paypal i was emailed a tracking number which is to be used for the local (aus) delivery company tracking website..i get to see each node of the shipping path and the date the item arrives at that node...so i can shoo away any unwanted attention at home incase disapproval is in the air ! :p

the sellers do make mistakes from time to time espc during times when they are really moving big volumes but the mistakes are usually ommission from latest delivery runs which is easily rectified...only consequence is a little delay

ironically i was prepared for all sorts of shenanigans at first so i checked out paypal protection...the only time i had to exercise the paypal refund process ..it was on an item NOT bought off ebay ...an interweb merchant who also used paypal...heh

[marcellis]

Wow! Those are some stunning instruments runn3r.
Are they Vietnamese?

http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff77/Runn3r_01/100_1009.jpg

http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff77/Runn3r_01/100_1065.jpg

Is that a Mosrite clone or the real thing?

I love Mosrites.

http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff77/Runn3r_01/100_1083.jpg

[Runn3r]

Wow! Those are some stunning instruments runn3r.
Are they Vietnamese?

http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff77/Runn3r_01/100_1009.jpg

http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff77/Runn3r_01/100_1065.jpg

Is that a Mosrite clone or the real thing?

I love Mosrites.

http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff77/Runn3r_01/100_1083.jpg

the green mando guitar (full size 25.5" scale length) is by Bruce Wei who is at pains to say he is from Taiwan and NOT from Vietnam due to some ebay confusion wiv another very popular inlay guitar seller from Vietnam (from whom i have also bought lots of guitars from :p)

this mando-guitar however appears to be a new design by SOMEONE who has made quite a few of them last yr and distributed them thru the ebay sellers who have added their own touches to em (mainly exquisite inlays)

u have seen the front ...the back is here

http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff77/Runn3r_01/100_0996.jpg

http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff77/Runn3r_01/100_0967.jpg

i installed gold frets on it (originally it came with typical frets which was quite poorly done) and it really looks a stunna now

i have a few of these mando guitars btw though they have dragons heh

as for the cuatro ..tht is a small sized 10 stringer which i have still to figure out how to tune up! lol

tht one is from vietnam from the antoniotsai 'brand' ..again thru ebay seller

the mosrite is a copy from antoniotsai/inlaidartist as well and i dunt play it tht much but collected it cos i think i got it for sumthin like a hundred bucks...basically just paid for shipping...

[marcellis]

I thought Bruce Wei has his instruments made in Vietnam. He ships them to Taiwan.
Then he ships trackable from TW to where-ever.

He saves money on shipping that way. That's what I remember reading
once in one of his EBay ads.

Are there two Bruce Wei's?

Those are some stunning instruments.

[Runn3r]

I thought Bruce Wei has his instruments made in Vietnam. He ships them to Taiwan.
Then he ships trackable from TW to where-ever.

He saves money on shipping that way. That's what I remember reading
once in one of his EBay ads.

Are there two Bruce Wei's?

Those are some stunning instruments.

..i would have little trouble believing wht you have said since the instruments are similar to those offered by antoniotsai/inlaidartist..

..as far as i know there is only one bruce wei...and he does inlays for shure!

this is one of my fave bruce wei guitars (originally only had the dragons on the fretboard and the fire on the body...so i asked Bruce to put 2 more dragons on the front and a big one on the back...this took a while but it well wurth it!)

http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff77/Runn3r_01/100_0845.jpg

http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff77/Runn3r_01/100_0849.jpg

another fave though i took the original neck off and bought a different tele neck from brucewei which happened to match the body perfectly...the tele body has rosewood 1/4" top and back with rock maple in the middle

http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff77/Runn3r_01/100_0859.jpg

[marcellis]

Aha! I was right.

Here is language from his EBAY site: (http://cgi.ebay.com/Indian-Rosewood-Acoustic-Bass-Guitar-w-ArtInlay-2379_W0QQitemZ350108640461QQihZ022QQcategoryZ2385Q QtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItem)

"Please Note :

1 / My workshop in Vietnam , because the express shipping charge too high in Vietnam ( by DHL , UPS , Fedex , or EMS ) , so I found the best way with lower price to help my customer saving for shipping charge .

This item will be shipped out from Vietnam to Taiwan first ( by air cargo ), then from Taiwan transfer to Buyer via EMS ( Taiwan ) express service, I will inform to buyer the tracking number when I ship it out ."
--

One of the two reasons I decided not to export guitars from here was the high cost of shipping.
Wei & Tsai have a built-in advantage if they transship from Taiwan after building in Vietnam.

The other reason was that I don't want to deal with musicians. Too many
of them don't have reasonable expectations. They may think ordering a guitar
from Vietnam is like ordering a guitar from Sweetwater or Musicians' Friend.

I don't need that headache. I may export oil paintings from here though.
That's more manageable and I think it would be a more rational clientele.

I have some fantastic ideas for that business.

[Runn3r]

Aha! I was right.

Here is language from his EBAY site: (http://cgi.ebay.com/Indian-Rosewood-Acoustic-Bass-Guitar-w-ArtInlay-2379_W0QQitemZ350108640461QQihZ022QQcategoryZ2385Q QtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItem)


--

One of the two reasons I decided not to export guitars from here was the high cost of shipping.
Wei & Tsai have a built-in advantage if they transship from Taiwan after building in Vietnam.

The other reason was that I don't want to deal with musicians. Too many
of them don't have reasonable expectations. They may think ordering a guitar
from Vietnam is like ordering a guitar from Sweetwater or Musicians' Friend.

I don't need that headache. I may export oil paintings from here though.
That's more manageable and I think it would be a more rational clientele.

I have some fantastic ideas for that business.

..you are quite right about the 'musician' issue regarding these items espc in the past ...

...however i think attitudes have changed due to changing economic circumstances....

..imo...during times when the 'flipping market' is apparently frozen, ppl tend to then buy lower priced items to use and not to flip...

...in the better times of pre-financial apocalypse...tht is pre-july 2008 ...there was a tendency to purchase items that were easily resold...and ppl did not quibble about high prices the way they do now...

..ppl had the expectation of always being able to dispose of their high priced crap at near da high prices they paid for em...there was really no tendency towards discriminating value...just a lemming like tendency towards branded items because they DID have a better resale market...

...now dat the music has stopped...attitudes have taken a turn towards more discrimination in purchases and far more skepticism of the 'usual' branded crap...

...i think you will do well with exotic art stuff marcellis and current conditions might well work in your favour

..good luck :thu:

[Raymond55]

I stumbled on Bruce Wei Art (acoustic) guitars on eBay a few weeks ago and was immediately impressed with the inlays. Some are almost overdone, but others are more tasteful. I dismissed them pretty quickly thinking that they can't be decent guitars when they sell for $75 with all that inlay work. Frankly, I imagined receiving a plywood guitar with open seams and a warped neck. Are you saying that the tone woods and workmanship are of high quality? I appreciate what you say about not expecting a GC purchase experience, but if one can buy a well-made nicely decorated guitar for a couple hundred dollars, even if it needs another $100 in tweaking locally, it sounds almost too good. I like some of the Luna guitars with their laser etched top designs but I can imagine something even better with a similar MOP inlay on the top. So what are the guitars like under all the inlay? Is there any consistency or are these made by random craftsmen and you never can tell what you might get? His prices seem to range all over the board. I just watched one end for $76.99 and it doesn't look a lot different than one listed for $600 Buy It Now. Are there really good Bruce Wei guitars and really bad ones? The emphasis seems to be on the inlays. Is that what drives the price? Is it possible to get something with less overall bling but with a nice design set in the top or fingerboard? What about import duties? How much does that add to the cost? This thread which I first discovered this evening, is very interesting and you guys seem to know a bit about these guitars. So, what can I expect if I were to buy one?

[Runn3r]

I stumbled on Bruce Wei Art (acoustic) guitars on eBay a few weeks ago and was immediately impressed with the inlays. Some are almost overdone, but others are more tasteful. I dismissed them pretty quickly thinking that they can't be decent guitars when they sell for $75 with all that inlay work. Frankly, I imagined receiving a plywood guitar with open seams and a warped neck.

1) Are you saying that the tone woods and workmanship are of high quality?

I appreciate what you say about not expecting a GC purchase experience, but if one can buy a well-made nicely decorated guitar for a couple hundred dollars, even if it needs another $100 in tweaking locally, it sounds almost too good. I like some of the Luna guitars with their laser etched top designs but I can imagine something even better with a similar MOP inlay on the top.
2) So what are the guitars like under all the inlay?

3) Is there any consistency or are these made by random craftsmen and you never can tell what you might get?

His prices seem to range all over the board. I just watched one end for $76.99 and it doesn't look a lot different than one listed for $600 Buy It Now.

4) Are there really good Bruce Wei guitars and really bad ones? The emphasis seems to be on the inlays.

5) Is that what drives the price?

6) Is it possible to get something with less overall bling but with a nice design set in the top or fingerboard?

7) What about import duties?

8) How much does that add to the cost? This thread which I first discovered this evening, is very interesting and you guys seem to know a bit about these guitars.

9)So, what can I expect if I were to buy one?

1) the tonewoods are no different to the tonewoods of various branded imported guitars cos they are all sourcing from the same pool of materials tht is in Asia...materials have been flowing there for the industrial process of which they have dominated since a decade or so ago

none of my Bruce Wei guitars are 'plywood' or have 'warped necks'
this is an outgrowth of previous eras which now is used to demean foreign/imported/unknown guitars as part of negative PR/campaign work usually spread virally through 'opinion pages' like forums and whtnot

2) see 1)

3) i pretty much expect to do some fret work espc at the fret ends and shining them up and occasionally a bit of fret levelling

4) of course...like most brands some are exceptional and some need a lot of work..yes the emphasis is on the inlays

5) imo yes...but in a negative sense...because it appears ppl DON'T like inlays and have actually put a DISCOUNT on the items as a result ...not a premium

the anti-bling crowd has kept prices low through their shunning of bliing

this causes a price advantage for those who are not rabidly anti-bliing or anti-foreign products and wht not

imo this is a temporary state of insanity

6) i would think so but...you can always email Bruce and ask...i suspect he gets the blanks (without any inlays) and he puts them on before he sells em

7) i have never paid any import duties on any guitars from Bruce...but i am in Aus and it might be different in another country though i would doubt it...import duties imo tend to come into play when declared item price in in the 4 digits or morebut i could be wrong here...check

8) see 7)

9) imo...great value but a bit of work but if you are averse to handiwork with files and sandpaper it might be best to avoid...

if you are into bliing, there are very few sellers/makers/luthiers who can compete on price or artistry

[Perfessor]

About 3 or 4 years ago, wasn't there an US-based guitar outfit that decided to move their production from China to Viet Nam -- or at least add production in Viet Nam?

Washburn makes T24 basses in Viet Nam. They are very well made neck throughs.

[marcellis]

Runn3r has obviously bought some stunners from Bruce Wei. I'm on the ground in Saigon,
so I can pick up fine instruments without going through him.

My opinion is that you can't go wrong buying inlaid component parts from dealers like Bruce Wei. Necks, fingerboards, bridges, etc. In fact, you will do much better buying from him than from most stateside dealers.

But if you buy guitars from Vietnam, you need to understand that you're not ordering from Musicians Friend. You're taking a chance. You're going to need a setup. You're going to need new tuners. And you're going to have to worry about humidity. Guitars made in Saigon were born in a place that has 80% relative humidity on average. That's fine for Houston or New Orleans. Most other places are dryer than that.

And I haven't even talked about what happens if the instrument is damaged in the long trip
from VN to the consumer. Who pays the shipping costs? How much will they be?


But I've bought some really fantastic instruments here. So has Runn3r.

[Stachelschwein]

Amazing:
The whole thread reminds me of a time back in the seventies, when japanese guitar copies by Ibanez started to flood the markets and all well reputated luthiers and guitar manufactures would not touch "those things" with a ten foot pole... and a few years later those very same people had to struggle for their survival.
However:This lead to a renaissance of quality awareness in some places - others - like german Framus or Hoyer guitars - vanished from the market.
Remember: Paul Reed Smith , among other facts, found his chance on the market due to the fact, that domestic produced quality was still available...!

[saxcop2]

I bought an electric guitar from Inaid artist. It shipped from vietnam. Shipping was very fast.
The thing was spalted and neck thru. It had alot of inlay on the neck. I found it distracting to play as they didnt line up the flowers on the vine on where the dots markers are.

The tuners were poor, but it was a licensed floyd so I didnt care. The thing needed just a little more sanding in some places.

The frets needed polished and had a couple sharp edges to file off.

other than that it was amazing to look at. I traded it for a nice Reverend.

I bought a pickguard from Bruce in Taiwan. very nice work.

I dont think I'd buy an acoustic. I've heard alot of stories of wood cracking.

[walleyealx]

im in shanghai right now.

I've seen fakes of:

Ibanez's (JEM's included), BC RICH, Squier, Fender, Gretsch White Falcons, and dubious amounts of gibsons.

Most of them are pretty horridly copied, but some could potentially be passed off as real.

[lina2001]

I've seen fake Les Pauls for sale here a few times. One look at the price was enough to know it was a fake.
But taking a second look at the tuners and that was all you needed to see.

Here is what they do extremely well:

1. Woods - the woods on local guitars (legit & counterfeit), are as good or better than the woods on the brands in GC.
They have been working with wood, laquer and inlay for thousands of years over here. They're really good.

2. Sound - the best guitars from this part of the world sound as good as anything GC sells today.

3. Pickups - Korean counterfeiters have mastered fake pickups. I'd rather have a Korean counterfeit Fishman Prefix than a real one.

[marcellis]

walleyealx: "im in shanghai right now.

I've seen fakes of:

Ibanez's (JEM's included), BC RICH, Squier, Fender, Gretsch White Falcons, and dubious amounts of gibsons.

Most of them are pretty horridly copied, but some could potentially be passed off as real.
__________________"

Jeez...they're even faking Ibanez & Squiers now?

I wonder how much a counterfeit Squier would sell for.

[Runn3r]

...hey marcellis...

...an epilogue to the viet rosewood Tele neck ...

...finally got around to building the body for it and the guitar appeared as thus

http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff77/Runn3r_01/100_1477.jpg

http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff77/Runn3r_01/100_1511.jpg

http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff77/Runn3r_01/100_1510.jpg

http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff77/Runn3r_01/100_1475.jpg

http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff77/Runn3r_01/100_1479.jpg

[marcellis]

It's spectacular.

The neck is really lovely. I've never seen VN Rosewood
used for a neck before.

I'm going to have a classical made with VN Rosewood B&S.

[amp_surgeon]

Xin chào!

Hey marcellis,

I've been lurking this thread for a couple of months, and finally decided to post.

I'm going to be in Viet Nam in April. I'm mostly going to be in Hue, but I usually spend a day in Sai Gon before heading back to the states. I'd be happy to spring for a big lunch and a bucket of Heineken if you could show me and my fiancee some of those guitars. Even better, if you could show me where to get one! :thu:

[marcellis]

Chao anh.

Just PM me before you come. I'm coming back to the States for awhile in May. But I plan to be here in April.

BTW, Mr. Binh is from Hue.

[Runn3r]

It's spectacular.

The neck is really lovely. I've never seen VN Rosewood
used for a neck before.

I'm going to have a classical made with VN Rosewood B&S.

thank you marcellis

if you ever see dried viet r/w like this (and it is actually quartersawn to boot! very very stiff) PM me asap :D

maybe ask your luthier or something too but dunt let on like it any good or anything ...hehehe:lol:

[02-fatboy]

Ok so this is a very fascinating post with lots of interesting information and some very beautiful guitars. I have heard several complaints about Gibson both on Harmony central and from other people and it kind of shocks me, Are they just going completely downhill? I have three Gibsons myself personally right now, a 62 melody maker, a 94 les paul studio and a 08 explorer.

I have only seen a few Gibson's which I was not overly impressed with. If I were to complain about gibson I would say that my les paul and my explorer could probably use a bone nut rather than the cheap sythetic stuff they use now days but otherwise I don't really have a lot of complaints.

[02-fatboy]

So my favorite guitar to play is my Japanese Yairi DY51 from 1981 it is probably the most beat up guitar I own but it is definitely one of the best sounding acoustics I have ever played. I think there is definitely something to be said for guitars made in other countries, The have some very beautiful work and at some super cheap prices. But I feel you really have to watch what you buy because I have seen complete garbage come from overseas and I have seen some very amazing guitars come for over seas as well. To be honest its to bad that more people remember the bad guitars than the good ones. Oh well I guess it just comes down to looking very carefully at a guitar no matter where it has come from before you buy it. Apparently they make crap both in the USA and in other countries

[02-fatboy]

Oh one last thing I have a Japanese tele and many people claim that the paint and the pickups on these were better than the american ones at the time. These guitars have been getting more credit over the last several years but its to bad so many beautiful guitars are so under rated. Personally I don't care where a guitar comes from as long as it sounds good and plays good.

[02-fatboy]

buy the way I am not bashing the USA or Gibson I am very greatful for both I just noticed that I have heard a lot of people complain about Gibson in the last several years. It seems like if you want to get a really nice guitar you just need to spend a ton of money, I paid 600 dollars for my Les Paul studio and yeah its legit not a fake. If the worst think I have to do to a guitar is spend another 50 dollars to have a custom bone nut made oh well big deal. I know my 62 melody maker has a bone nut but who knows if thats original even LOL. Does any company out there even make guitars that come with a bone nut? Almost all the newer guitars I see have synthetic nuts of some sort. I prefer bone and don't see why anyone else wouldn't (they seem to have less problems and stay in tune better) Not that my guitars have been terrible with the synthetic nut.

[amp_surgeon]

Hey, 02-fatboy.

I haven't really noticed any serious Gibson bashing, but I hang out mostly in the effects forum when I'm here. Gibsons are still very popular there, especially the Epi Sheraton and Dot. I've always lusted after Fender guitars, but there are two Gibsons on my ultimate collection "to buy" list - a Studio Les Paul, and an SG.

I have three Fenders, but spend 99% of my electric time on my American Strat. I guess you'd say my hands have molded to fit the neck! :D

I also have several acoustics, but usually play an early 70's Eko Ranger VI when I'm in an acoustic mood. I also have a mid 60's Ranger VI, but the action just isn't as nice. (Both have bone saddles, since you seem to have an affinity for bone...)

Anyway, my interest in Viet made guitars isn't so much to get another "players" guitar. I'm happy playing the guitars I already have, and have several that I hardly ever pick up. I'm just really blown away by the beauty of the craftsmanship on these things. The abalone inlay is stunning. I already have a few Asian paintings and embroideries hanging on my studio wall. Having one or two of those guitars would turn the room into an oriental garden of music!

Frankly, I wouldn't care if it played horribly. Heck, I saw some handmade guitars in Hue City that were beatifully crafted, from a woodworking perspective, but were obviously made by someone who either didn't know anything about actually building a playable guitar, or they didn't intend the guitar to be played. I even saw some with beautifully painted artwork on the soundboard, but they had a one-piece soft wood bridge and saddle, and the frets were wood and sculpted into the fingerboard! :eek:

Still, I think of them more as a canvas for art - a tribute to a beautiful guitar, rather than a functional instrument. I'd rather have one of those on my studio wall than another cheezy neon guitar clock.

I have a couple of friends in Sai Gon, but they are clueless about musical instruments, and have no idea where to find stuff like this. It's good to know there are HC folks who know where to go. :thu:

[02-fatboy]

Thanks for the input, I agree these are some really pretty guitars. I hope you find what you are looking for, Althought the guitars that are posted here appear to be that they were made to be playable. As far as guitar bashing goes I have yet to hear of a poorly crafted Fender unless your talking about some of the sqiers etc. But seeing the guy posting about the SG with poor fretwork is not the first time I have seen complaints posted about Gibsons. All of my acoustics have bone saddles buy the way I haven't went the extra trouble to put a bone nut on my electrics yet as it more seems to affect the tuning than it does the sound but I definitley would spend the money on a bone saddle for an acoustic. (unless its a classical guitar then I am not so sure that it matters????)

I only have 1 guitar out of 15 that I really don't play and I have told myself several times I should sell it but when it comes down to it the think is like and old relic and I can't bring myself to part with it. That guitar would be my 1962 Melody maker signed by BB King. I have heard a lot of people say they make good slide guitars but to be the sounds is not the best out of it and I just don't seem to play it. I guess I keep it more for a wall ornament, or for a converasation piece. There is a beauty about it I just can't explain the finish is all checkered from age and it just looks cool as hell. Actually my son like to play it because it has such a skinny neck and is such a small little light guitar but other than that it barely gets used. I had a guy offer me 1200 dollars for it once and turned him down. I don't know why but I just keep it for the beauty of it I guess. Sorry that probably not nearly as pretty as the guitars you guys have posted but to me its a differnt kind of beauty.

There just something about an old guitar thats got a few dings, and the finish is checkered and turns that yellowish brown color that just makes it look awesome. So by all means spend some money on a gutiar to hang on the wall but keep in mind if you can play it too it might be a little cooler to have around.

[02-fatboy]

Man do I jump around alot when I post LOL I need to organize my thoughts better.

[amp_surgeon]

There just something about an old guitar thats got a few dings, and the finish is checkered and turns that yellowish brown color that just makes it look awesome. So by all means spend some money on a gutiar to hang on the wall but keep in mind if you can play it too it might be a little cooler to have around.

Yeah, I hear what you're saying. My oldest Eko has some very thick lacquer, and a considerable amount of checking as a result. The finish doesn't initially give the impression of being yellow until you see where it's chipped off of the upper bout in one spot, and the binding underneath is bright white, while the binding beneath the lacquer is almost amber.

The checking and wear definitely give the guitar some "personality", and a certain kind of vintage beauty. As it gets older I'm sure the finish will continue to develop more lacquer cracks and chips, and that will just contribute to the personality of the guitar. I do play that guitar, but I play the slightly newer Eko more simply because it plays better.

On the other hand, these Viet guitars are more than just craftsmanship - they're art. I wouldn't want to see a lot of lacquer checking on one. I think it would diminish the beauty. I'd really be crushed if it started shedding bits of the inlays, as well. That doesn't mean I wouldn't spend a little time and money to optimize the playability (as long as it didn't affect the art), and I'd still take it down and play it occasionally, give it some new strings, and polish it. But it wouldn't become an "everyday" guitar for me. It would spend most of it's time on the wall just making the room a better place to be in, which is really the function of any piece of art. And, for my studio, I'd rather see art on a guitar than a canvas or vase.

[02-fatboy]

If you get a chance google Peavey Proximity Rotor. Its not nearly as beautiful as some the guitars listed in this posting but I own a Peavey Rotor Proximity guitar which is based upon the comic book and its a very cool peice of artwork if you look at how the face of the guitar is covered with scenes from the actual comic book. I can say I don't own any guitars quite as pretty as the ones posted here but I do have a few really cool looking guitars.

My 4 favorite guitars for looks that I own are my Peavey Proximity rotor for the comic book artwork, My 2002 custom shop American strat, It has a birdseye maple neck and a really cool flame finish it which you can actually see through the red color of the guitar to the wood grain underneath. My Breedlove AC25 SR plus has some really beatiful abalone inlays and binding on it. And my 1996 Jap tele is very cool because of the Pearl binding that goes around the body with all the gold hardware. The color of the guitar was white when it was purchased new but for some reason as it gets old the white has actually yellowed and turned to a very pretty cream color. Oh and I suppose I cant forget my Yairi DY 51 there is something about Burled Mahogony that is just super beautiful its almost like looking at a hologram the way the wood is kind of like 3D. My Yairi is probably one of the best sounding acoustics I have ever played and it very beautiful as well that is if you can get past the few bumps and bruises it has. Nothing to major thought for a guitar thats from 1981. I have seen newer guitars in worse shape sad to say.

[amp_surgeon]

The Proximity Effect Rotor is definitely a very cool looking guitar, but I think there's a difference between aesthetic beauty and "art". With a couple of exceptions, most of the guitars I own are quite beautiful to look at (at least to me), but they are production guitars so they're no more or less beautiful than any other guitar of the same make and model.

I think that's a little different from a guitar that was hand crafted and singularly unique. As marcellis noted, his "signature" guitar is the only one like it in the world. For me, a guitar like that would deserve exceptional care and treatment. That doesn't mean I would never play it, but if I came home from a particularly difficult day at work, and I wanted to sit down and bang out some of my frustrations, I doubt that would be the guitar I picked up. I have an Ovation Celebrity that's perfect for that sort of thing.

I think there's a good analogy between guitar collectors and car collectors. If I had a perfectly restored '65 Mustang then I'd take extra care of it, but I'd still take it out and drive it. On the other hand, if it had a custom paint job with airbrushed murals and hand-painted pin striping, then I'd probably just take it to car shows on the weekend and let it be admired.

[02-fatboy]

Actually I agree with you there is a huge difference between art and a one of a kind hand made guitar. Having a hand made guitar is awesome and they are extremely beautiful. As for the analogy with cars and custom paint (LOL) I have a 1955 chevy that I hope to one day restore, I haven't driven the thing since like 2000 and and after I restore it one day I will probably do just like you said take out for a Sunday Drive and thats probably about it.

I also have a 02 Harley Davidson Fatboy (LOL) with custom painted artwork on it that is one of a kind, my mother and I painted it (I used to work in a body shop on cars bikes etc went to school for that but got tired of the people and BS in that industry so am going back to school right now and working) My motorcycle has dragons on it and its very cool. However I do drive it as many places as I can and I have even put in a few shows.

I am not saying play a guitar all the time I am saying that just as you had stated to play it when you come home from a long day etc. I was actually looking at your website, I should read up on it more do you hand make pedals? It's a terrible thing about the guy who died of Cancer that kind of thing really sucks, I know I have had lots of people in my family with cancer and I watched by best friends dad slowly Die of Brain Cancer, its a terrible thing. I guess life can be short so try to live it to the fullest and make the best of the time you got here.

I hope you find a guitar you looking for, I admit there are some of the nicest looking most original guitars I have ever seen here on this post, If you want a one off custom guitar and don't care how much money you spend check out Jimmy Naggy, he makes some awesome guitars I have seen his work first hand as I had a teacher who he had made a one of a kind guitar for. If you want more info on his guitars or his contact info or if you even want to swap pics of your gear and I can send some of mine as well, PM me and I can get you Jimmy Naggys email address. I do happen to have some pics of his guitars in a book but I don't know how well they would turn out if I used my digital camera to send them to you or if I scanned them and then sent them. I keep having problems trying to post my pics here cuz it says the size limit is too big. So thats why I suggesting email.

[02-fatboy]

One more thing I have often toyed with the idea of making my own one of custom guitar but this seems like it might be a hard thing to do? I could probably do the paint part an or staining of the body, or neck depending on the finish with out a problem but cutting a body to the right size and fitting it for a neck and even just making a neck for a guitar those seem like they could be very complex tasks. I give a lot of credit to the people who can build something and make it look so beautiful even if the neck is not very fast there are some very wonderful 1 of guitars posted here and I gotta say you guys really know how to make some really beautiful looking guitars.

[amp_surgeon]

Hi 02-fatboy.

Our pedals are hand made, but we don't make the blank printed circuit boards or the sheet metal enclosures. We hire a company in Chicago to make our blank circuit boards, and we hire a local sheet metal shop here in California to make our enclosures. Doing either of those things with a professional level of quality requires some expensive equipment that we don't have, so we leave that kind of work to the professionals.

However, we do solder the circuit boards by hand. We then test each circuit board, wire them into the enclosures by hand, and then test the finished pedals. I personally only build a small percentage of the pedals - we have a couple of electronic assemblers who work for us as contractors, and they build most of the pedals. I do play every pedal before it leaves the shop, though. I also design the electronics, layout the printed circuit boards, design the enclosures and art, write the assembly and test procedures, write the manuals, take the orders, ship the pedals, do the accounting, answer the phones, and sweep the floors! :thu:

It's only a part time gig right now. I have a "real" job as an audio software engineer.

There were actually two well known boutique pedal makers who died of cancer in the past year; Keith Aramat, and Bob Sweet. Both were awesome builders, and highly respected by both their customers and other pedal makers. I've known Bob Sweet since 1987, back when he was a working musician in Detroit. He was a genuinely great guy, and will be sorely missed.

Anyway, I became interested in the Vietnamese guitars because I knew I was going to be making a couple of trips to Viet Nam last year, and have several more trips planned this year. It looked like a opportunity to pick up a unique and beautiful guitar that I would probably never be able to get without actually going there. With a little luck, maybe I'll get a chance to meet marcellis' luthier and place a custom order.

[02-fatboy]

I hope you do get a custom made guitar well your there. I would like to see some pics of it if you do get one.

[Angry Old Man]

I,ladend you your a kag you waht you can

[WERNER1]

Can someone post some names to search for to find sellers of these acoustics and electric guitars made abroad? ...

I am very familiar with the knock off Gibson's as I own two of them as well as a knock off Jem.... a few notes on that if you will...

1. The finish work is exceptional, .. as are the woods,.

2. The Hardware is the biggest down fall IMO,. I've replaced all the hardware with OEM and or quality aftermarket hardware.

3. Fret work/ Set up - This is the next biggest downfall IMO. As soon as these guitars came in I did a full fret level/ recrown/ and polish to them. Now they play much better than any of their off the wall counter parts.

4. Electronics - All of the electronics (Pots, Jacks, switches, wiring, and pickups are of poor quality - The pickups for some might be fine, but for me again went with either OEM, or quality aftermarket stuff - I gutted the electronics and redid everything using CTS and switchcraft parts

5. Communication - This was one of the biggest problems that I had with my transactions. There were months of emails back and forth and ton's of pictures, diagrams, and infomation sent. ... and even then I wasn't 100% confident that what I ordered was what I was going to be getting. Not only was the communication a bit of a problem,.. but there was also the fact that the person I was dealing with was not technical at all, and all of the information that I was seeking or wanting to have done had to be ran though their "Factory" guys,.. and then relayed back to me. .... Not only did this take extra time,.. but a lot of times the answers were lost in the translation,.. or I never was able to nail them down on what I wanted..

6. Shipping was "Make your head spin fast"!!! ... I mean from China to my door step in 5 days flat on all three transactions! ... Big Plus for that!

7. Upgrades - I'd have to say that trying to have some upgrades or Spec. changes was the biggest hurdle to overcome... for instance I wanted a simple upgrade from a Rosewood FB to an Ebony one on the LP Supreme that I ordered ... when it arrived, it was rosewood :( - But at least they were willing to try and make it right to some degree as they gave me a heck of a deal on my Jem :) - NOTE: I think for someone wanting to order one of these knock off guitars, I'd try and stick to items that were in stock. If you try and go outside the box,.. well that's just more time and aggravation than it's worth.

8. Wait time(s) - Since on two of the guitars I added some "Upgrades",.. I paid the price in "wait time" as they had to fit that into their production schedule. They quoted like 3 weeks,.. but it was more like 6 before the item shipped each time.... which in all honesty is not that bad considering.


In the end I had mixed feelings on my "Fake" purchases. Would I do it again,... probably (Especially knowing what I know now, and how the system "works" ) Are the guitars as good as the real thing,.. in some ways better,... in other ways no even close. For the money and time invested was it a good purchase? - Yes! (For me anyway as I went in with very low expectations.. and was pleasantly surprised.

Anyway,.. that's my take on the Fakes coming out of China,.. and keep in mind that there are a LOT of fakes coming from there and some are just pathetic,.. but if you know what to look for, and really "Know" your guitars, you can spot the good ones from the bad..

Rick

[marcellis]

Werner1: I'm not going to help anybody buy counterfeit name-brand guitars.
If I found out my luthier was doing s*it like that, I'd sever all ties and publicly denounce him.

That's why I'm reluctant to give out his contact information.

I just don't get it. Yes. This part of the world makes some fine guitars.
You're exactly right the guitars can be great. But the hardware needs
to be replaced and the set-up probably won't be optimum.

But why do it? The name "Gibson" on a headstock means nothing to me.
I got my own name inlaid on my arch top. It's custom. It doesn't look
like any other arch top. It's unique. More important, it's legal.

http://music.marcellis.net/ready2gig.JPG

I can't understand why someone would break the law just to own a guitar
with a brand name on the head stock.

I've owned several Guild acoustics. But I would NEVER buy a counterfeit Guild.
Why? It wouldn't be a Guild.

I'm not singling you out. But I've seen others who would buy
a fake Gibson just because it's got the name on the head stock.

I don't get it.

[02-fatboy]

I completely agree with you man I mean the copy of a Guild that your luthier made was exactly that a Copy not a counterfeit. Your Luthier makes very beautiful guitars and copying the craftsmanship of others it ok if you are not trying to make a fake (for example if you look at the guild that your luthier had made in the earlier picture there were still some differences such as the fretboard comes down father over the soundhole, or the headstock was not exactly the same as your Guild etc. They are all very beautiful guitars and I give more respect to a guy who can make something his own and unique not just a copy.

I wish I would be able to play your guitars and hear the sound of them. I mean its one thing to have such beauty in a guitar but the sound can sometimes even bring the most beat up guitar to life. I personally look at 2 things when I buy a guitar, beauty and the sound of it. However I have bought guitars just because of there beauty. There a many differnt form of beauty when buying guitars, some find the beauty in the inlays and type of wood and the grain of it etc. Other find beauty in a custom paint job or in the age of a guitar I personally love when a lacquer on a guitar checks and cracks from age or when it turned that dark brown over time. These are things that I find beautiful but man the work on your guitars are very beautiful as well. I wish I owned something that looked like that.

[marcellis]

You're right.

No one should confuse inspiration with counterfeiting.

My luthier did not copy my Guild. He was inspired by it. Then he riffed
off (not ripped off) it. He made some significant changes in the design
to come up with something of his own creation.

Differences:

1. He made a guitar with a floating bridge.

2. My Guild has a fixed bridge.

3. The head stocks are different.

4. His guitar has a tail piece. The Guild does not.

5. And the neck on my F-65ce is not only different, it's a dream. The necks on his two oval sound-hole guitars (inspired by my F-65ce) are like the neck on my own arch top. Pretty good - but not the thrill of a lifetime to play.

Similarities:

1. The back & sides on both models are Maple laminate.

2. The bodies are both thin. His guitar is maybe 1/2" deeper than my Guild.

3. They're both Venetian cutaways.

4. They both have Spruce tops.

5. They both have oval-shaped sound holes.

6. Neither guitar has any internal bracing*.


(*That is the genius of using Maple laminate with a thin body. No need for bracing. There is nothing to interrupt the flow of sound waves.That means you can get a big acoustic sound out of a thin-body guitar. )

But as anyone can see, the other differences are numerous. Grover tuners?
Inlay design on the fretboard? Headstock shape? Mr. Binh, as good
as he is, could not duplicate Guild's Antique Burst finish. And he could
not equal the action on the F-65ce.

Not yet anyway.

http://music.marcellis.net/hybrid_natural_w-guild.JPG

They're completely different guitars.

Counterfeiting occurs when there is intentional patent,
copyright or trade-name infringement.

[02-fatboy]

Ah but there are both very beautiful and unique. So here is a question for you. Do you have any experience with Yairi's? I have 3 acoutics that I primarily play, I have a Martin Graphite II its probably the durable guitar I have ever owned the graphite top makes it really awesome as far as looks and it even sounds decent I like not having to worry so much about how climate can affect an acoustic with this as well. However this guitar really doesn't shine throught until its plugged in. Thats where it wins points

I have played probably 30 different Martins and I liked all of them My Graphite II is probably the quietest Martin I have played but like I said its meant to be plugged in. Anyways I believe Martin guitars rank pretty high, I am amazed at how large of a sound you can get out of some of them.

Ok So what about Breedloves? I have an a breedlove Atlas AC25 SR plus. For a Korean made guitar it blows my mind away, Its almost as good if not better then several of the middle of the road Martins that I have played but the higher end Martins blow it away. Either way it has a very bright tone about it.

To be honest I have always been a very big Martin fan and until I bought my Yairi I was blown away by Martins, I can honestly say that I have played several different Yairi's and the new ones are ok but they seem kind of pricey and to be honest of the few new Yairis's I would probably still say a Martin is a better guitar. Of course I am talking the higher end Martin's as the Yairi's I played would most like blow the Mexican made martins and the middle of the line ones out of the water.

Sorry got carried away back to my point, What is your view on Yairis? Do you feel that the older ones were better made? Do you have any experience with them? I ended up buying a 1981 Yairi DY51 and it is probably the best sounding nices acoustic I have yet to play. To be honest it ranks right up there with a couple of the higher end Martins I have played and its so hard to say which is a superior guitar. Personally I like my Yairi better then some of the Higher end Martins I played but I guess thats all a matter of opinion.

Either way I know my Yairi has way better projection than several of my friends Martins and I am just amazed by this guitar, I can't tell if age has had something to do with or if its the guitar itself, it has a few bumps and bruises, not cracks or repairs, but I honestly don't know what I would do if something happened to my Yairi. It's my favorite guitar. It kind of reminds me of a Johhny cash kind of sounding guitar its got enough bass but not to much. I mean some guitars I have played have to much bass and other just don't have enough. To me my Yairi is perfect.

I know its so hard to say with out playing a guitar but if you have any expericene on Yairi's or anything I would love to hear it. I like your guild to but my personal expereince with the few guilds I played was that most of them had to much bass but I have never played a model like yours. If sound like because there is not bracing this guitar would have some great projection. I wish I could acually play it to hear for myself.

If I ever see a Guild like yours I will have to play it. The few Guilds I played were made in china, The were ok for the price but I wasn't overly impressed.
Actually now that I think about I may have only played the chinese guilds.
Hmmm may have to pick up and play some other ones.

[marcellis]

This is something important from the musoland site is down (http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2194092) thread.

When you read this consider:

1. 2 Guitar dealers in China have been raided by the Chinese police.

2. The owners are being questioned by the Chinese police. (It may not be gentle questioning. There is no Due Process clause in the PRC constitution.)

3. Is it possible that one of the questions might be "Who did you sell to?"

4. Might the Chinese police be examining the shipping records?

5. Baker-McKenzie is one of the biggest law firms on the planet.

6. Is it possible the Chinese authorities might turn over the shipping invoices to Baker-McKenzie?

7. Baker-McKenzie could then sue the recipients of counterfeit guitars in the same way the RIAA has sued hapless MP3 downloaders.

All for a stupid name on a head stock?

Fight Against Counterfeit Guitars
January 15, 2009 by NAMM

Increasing reports and complaints from music stores and musicians about the explosion of counterfeit guitars spreading like plague, four of the top known names in the musical instrument business, Ibanez, Gretsch, Fender and Paul Reed Smith (PRS), teamed up in March 2008 to develop the Electric Guitar Anti-Counterfeiting Coalition (EGACC) to petition government authorities for enforcing their intellectual property laws against unauthorized counterfeiting.

Sources tell us that complaints were pursued with the Public Security Bureau (PSB) in Beijing, China concerning the activities of two Chinese companies operating as paylessguitar.com.cn and musoland.com.cn. The two companies were believed to be in violation for distributing and sales of counterfeit guitars through several websites targeting overseas consumers. The four members of the EGACC had all received several complaints about the sites from both consumers and musical instrument retail stores, many of who were on the receiving end of acquiring instruments that turned out to be illegal counterfeits.

The four guitar manufacturers of the EGACC are also collectively working with the international intellectual-property and antitrust law firm, Baker and McKenzie. Baker and McKenzie petitioned the Chinese enforcement authorities for law enforcement assistance. Following numerous months of intensive investigations, the Xuanwu District PSB in Beijing, initiated simultaneous raids on November 26, 2008, against the retail operations and warhouse of both Paylessguitar and Musoland in Beijing.

During this intensive operation, the PSB seized over 1,200 counterfeit guitars and other musical instruments not only counterfeiting all four EGACC group member brands but also those of several other renowned electric guitar manufacturers. Sources tell us that a number of individuals including the owners of these businesses were detained by the PSB during the raids. The EGACC is collaborating with the PSB and prosecutors in their follow-up investigations and prosecution. Should the prosecution prevail, those convicted could face extensive fines and jail time.

[02-fatboy]

Come on be original make your own guitar. I mean really why buy a counterfit guitar. If you want it that bad save your money and then buy the real thing. Or try buying used it saves you some money. I am glad that they caught these guys.

[marcellis]

You might want to ask in the acoustic forum.

I haven't played a Yairi in 30 years probably. I know they made great guitars.
They probably still do.

I've never been much on Martins. But I do like the lower-priced Martin 15 series. I think that is a real bargain. It's going to be a guitar for the ages.

I also think the Martin DX 12 string is a bargain. I played one.

Martin is getting its act together. But there is no way I'd even consider
a higher-priced Martin. There are too many other guitars available.

Although if I were rich, I might like that leather covered Martin (http://www.samash.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_D28M%20Elvis%20Presley%20Limited%20Edition %20Acoustic%20Guitar_-1_10052_10002_-49958723_cmCategorySA555068) like Elvis played in the 1950's.

At <$10K, it's a steal.

[amp_surgeon]

When Werner1 talks about "knock off" Gibsons I can't tell for certain whether he's talking about copycat guitars built to look like Gibsons, or counterfeit guitars with an actual Gibson logo on the headstock.

If he's talking about the former, then I suppose I can understand the motives. There are a ton of guitars that legally copy the Les Paul body design (for example), and cost substantially less than the real thing. The only thing Gibson has trademarked is it's "open book" headstock, and this was the basis for the only real "lawsuit" knockoff of a Gibson guitar (according to an article I read). As long as the customer knows he's getting a knockoff and not a genuine Gibson, then I don't see any real foul here. I know some players who buy off-brand guitars for gigging, and then clean them up with decent hardware and setup. They keep their expensive brand name gear in the studio.

If he's talking about the latter, then I'm more than a little surprised. The only motive I could see for wanting counterfeit guitars is if the original buyer was planning on flipping them for a profit, with the unsuspecting consumer believing he was getting a real Gibson guitar. That would be just plain sleazy. Legitimate manufacturers work hard to build a reputation for their brands. Once that reputation is established, putting that brand name on a product adds value to that product. For another manufacturer to artificially inflate the value of their own products by applying somebody elses reputable brand name to it is the worst kind of corporate theft. Any dealer who knowingly buys these counterfeits and resells them to unsuspecting consumers is a scumbag.

[WERNER1]

I've had my eye on a Taylor 414CE lately,... still saving up for that one though :(

Back to the fakes.. ..

Well back in the day one of my First guitars was a Hondo II LP copy... multi-ply body with what I would assume was a laminate top ... for what it was, it was a pretty decent guitar for me back then,...played real well and sounded pretty darn good through the rig(s) that I was using back then..

Over the past 25 years I've been collecting guitars and amps as the fundage and wife would permit... That collection has reached 20 guitars and 10 amps... and I think I'm at my limit now,... I'm running out of space :) ...

But in that collection I've got a 1964 SG, '82 LP Custom Silver Burst, 50th Ann. American Deluxe Strat, Custom Shop Jackson Soloist, a time capsule Dean '79 ML, .. 86' Kramer, Ibanez Prestige, ... and so on and so forth... ... I mention all of that just to clear up that I"m no stranger to "Good" guitars .... ..

About 6 Years ago I stumbled onto an Agile LesPaul copy,... and was blown away by it,... I did some research and decided I could afford to "waste" 350 bucks to see if this was a quality piece,.. or if it was junk... Much to my surprise it was a very nice instrument (I ended up getting an AL3000 ) .. .. These were being made out of Korea at the time,... and I have to say the fit, finish, and overall package was a very good deal regardless of the price...

Then about a year or so ago I was doing some research on these Jem copies/fakes as I was looking for a Jem at the time for a project guitar.. Making a long story short I ended up finding a supplier and after a long time of communication and details I decided I'd give it a whirl.... My biggest concern was that I'd send this person 1/2 way around the world my money and not end up getting anything in return... But once again I figured I had 350'ish to burn so I did it...

I think the biggest thing that had my curiosity was that I kept wondering how much I would have to put into it to make it "Usable" .... and in the end I found that all the hardware and electronics had to be replaced to make the guitar worth anything... Then there needed to be a complete Fret level/ recrown / and polish (And full set up of course...) ..

These were purchased for me, and only me,...not for any resale or anything,.. but to satisfy my curiosity and to give me the satisfaction of taking something that was of Marginal quality over all and making it into a very nice, and very playable guitar ..... ..

I'm sorry if that offends anyone,... and I'm sure if you dig deep enough there are all types of Legal issues that have been stomped on in the process,.. ... but I'm not the type of person to try and pass something off as something it's not... I call it like it is,... and in the end... it's a Fake (But a pretty cool one at that ;) )

Rick

[amp_surgeon]

Hi Werner1.

I'm sure there are legal issues involved, and it's way outside of my areas of expertise to even begin to guess what those legal issues are. I would still personally have moral issues with what you've done. By buying their products, you are supporting a business which is obviously involved in something which is illegal. If nobody was buying them, they wouldn't be building and selling them.

marcellis also has a good point about possible culpability. Somewhere in the records of that company, or the distributor you dealt with, there is a paper trail that leads to you and other people who purchased those instruments. If the Chinese government decides to cooperate with the American law firm that initiated the investigation, then you could find a law enforcement officer standing at your door with a warrant in hand. Since you didn't try to resell the instrument, you could probably claim to have been a victim of the scam, but you'd still likely end up losing the instrument even after having put so much work and money into it.

I just don't see how any of this is worth it when you could probably get an instrument that was equally inexpensive and comparable quality, but with a brand name on the headstock that the manufacturer had the legal right to use.

[02-fatboy]

I was not trying to rip on you for buying a fake guitar, if you are really using if for your own personal gain then I don't see that as a huge problem. However the deeper issue is that of course you are supporting the organization that was selling the fake guitars which really gets into a question of morales and ethics. Regardless I am sure your a decent person I was not trying to question your charachter but I personally would not buy a guitar like the one you described.

Now the Agile, that is a completely different story. I actually really like the Agile guitars they are a great bargain for the price but keep in mind you get what you pay for. I learned this the hard way. The number one problem with Agile guitars is they put cheap electronics in them and that ultimitley affects the sound which to me is very important.

I bought an Agile 200 for 200 dollars. I played it and it felt and played very well I was pleasanlty suprised. The sound sucked though so I then invested about 250 dollars if I remember correctly to have a set of Seymour Duncan 1959 PAF pickups installed. It then sounded amazing. But think about this I now had 450 dollars into a fake Les Paul. In the end I eventually sold the Agile with Seymour Duncan pickups in it on Ebay for 250 dollars with a gibson Hardshell case. So basically I ended up loosing money.

Oh well I just recently picked up a used 94 Les Paul Studio for 600 dollars. I wouldn't buy the Agile again. I am much happier with my Actual Les Paul. Not it was a valuable learning experience for me and so it was worth that but my personal recommendation to anyone out there is if you really want a guitar just wait save your money and buy the real thing in the end you will probably be much happier. At least thats my opinoin. But to each there own.

[WERNER1]

All's good :)

Agile - I think the older and lower end models did have a lot of issues with the Hardware and electronics,... With mine being a "3000" model,... it came factory with real grover tuners, Wilkinson pups, better wire and pots,.. real maple cap,..bone nut, ebony fretboard .... so it really was ready to go right out of the box so to speak.. I think at that time the cost was like 365.00 or something... not too bad,... I eventually re-did the electronics and wiring (CTS and Switchcraft stuff...) but I left the Wilkinson pups in there as they are quite good in that guitar..

Part of me feels bad about the whole fake purchases,.. but with all the goofy info out there on the net,... I wanted to see first hand what the quality of these really was ... and that is now done. I don't see me buying any more of them in the future,.. . but the ones that I have do serve a purpose,.. and I do use them on a regular basis,..

Rick

[yollyp]

There's no substitute really for the "original". Fake may only be good for "gift-giving" purposes :p (just kidding). I was once a victim of this fake thing, but was lucky enough to have acquired "the good quality fake" :confused: because up to now I'm still using it and it's still giving me satisfaction. (My original Gibson was stolen long time ago).

[archdevil]

http://music.marcellis.net/ready2gig.JPG


Dude!! Where exactly did you get these beautiful guitars made? I run a Vietnamese guitar forum and I have never heard of these things! I'm staying in Vietnam for a few months and would love to get some custom guitars like these. Are you in Saigon now?

Thanks for spreading the words, yes, we do great craftsmanship especially with woods. :)

[marcellis]

The Guild was made in Westerly Rhode Island.

The arch top is Vietnamese.

I'll PM you my email & phone. Are you in Saigon?

[archdevil]

The Guild was made in Westerly Rhode Island.

The arch top is Vietnamese.

I'll PM you my email & phone. Are you in Saigon?

Got your PM, thanks. No I'm in Hanoi but I may visit Saigon soon. Hope you're enjoying it there.

[marcellis]

There is one very famous luthier in Hanoi.
I'm sorry. I don't remember his name. But he's probably the most
famous luthier in Vietnam and his prices reflect it.

You shouldn't need to travel to Saigon to buy a good guitar.
But be careful.

But I know the quality of Mr. Binh's work in Saigon District 3.
I'm very happy with it.

[marcellis]

These aren't counterfeit. They're the real deal, I guarantee.

From Mr. Binh's shop:

http://music.marcellis.net/images/cambodianrosewoodback1.jpg

http://music.marcellis.net/images/cambodianrosewoodback2.jpg

http://music.marcellis.net/images/cambodianrosewoodside1.jpg

http://music.marcellis.net/images/cambodianrosewoodtop.jpg
---
This Maple dread has stunning tone. It's the best-sounding acoustic
I've played in a long, long time.


http://music.marcellis.net/images/mapledreadback1.jpg

http://music.marcellis.net/images/mapledreadside1.jpg

http://music.marcellis.net/images/mapledreadfront1.jpg

No phony names on the headstocks either.

[IBDBB]

those antoniostai and bruce wei guitars do look pretty, and pretty tempting..
but, @ $350ish shipped, i am hesitant.
I don't want it to turn into wall art with no resale value...

[marcellis]

I would buy parts, exotic wood bodies, fingerboards, inlay, etc from Wei.
I would not buy a finished guitar from him, although
others have had good luck.

Here is a site with complaints about Antonio Tsai's products.

http://www.chionline.com/Antoniotsai/index.html

[IBDBB]

I would buy parts, exotic wood bodies, fingerboards, inlay, etc from Wei.
I would not buy a finished guitar from him, although
others have had good luck.

Here is a site with complaints about Antonio Tsai's products.

http://www.chionline.com/Antoniotsai/index.html

thanks!
Wei is out of my price range and it seems AntonioTsai's stuff is not too well thought of...
The only guitars I was interested in on Tsai's site was the neck through Tele's.

[cloudswinger]

I'd take the site with tsai's complaints with a grain of salt. A lot of the complaints are undated, but the ones with bad comments are from 2005-2007, while there are a few good ones from 2008. So hopefully he's improved in the past 4 years. I personally will just buy my vietnamese intruments in vietnam, next time I go, although I did hear that there are a lot of good instrument makers in Hue, but maybe that's for traditional intruments?

[amp_surgeon]

I'd take the site with tsai's complaints with a grain of salt. A lot of the complaints are undated, but the ones with bad comments are from 2005-2007, while there are a few good ones from 2008. So hopefully he's improved in the past 4 years. I personally will just buy my vietnamese intruments in vietnam, next time I go, although I did hear that there are a lot of good instrument makers in Hue, but maybe that's for traditional intruments?

If you find out where those luthiers are in Hue please post it here. The locals I know in Hue had no clue where to find decent guitars in town. The only shops they could show me were the ones in the shopping district near the Citadel, and the instruments in those shops were awful. Even the inlay work wasn't very good. Even the guitar specialty shops were selling the same junk they sell at the shops at Dong Ba market to the tourists. Seriously, some of those guitars had a one-piece bridge (saddle included) that look like it was hand carved from soft wood.

[Runn3r]

...hey fellas

...here is antoniotsai neck i used in me new homebrew

...it had a backbow and i had to sand the dragon inlay off and refret it but it is well worth it

...wood like this is pretty rare

http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff77/Runn3r_01/100_1686.jpg

http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff77/Runn3r_01/100_1691.jpg

the original neck looked like this

http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff77/Runn3r_01/origneck.jpg

...i bought this neck along with a tele neck made of the same type of viet rosewood

..the tele neck neck is straight as an arrow ...already in a homebrew but this one had a nasty backbow which meant the dragon had to go ...also had to sand the neck join area to correct the angle disruption caused by the backbow

[cloudswinger]

Does Mr Binh make ukuleles? How long did it take to have the guitar made? How much oversight did you do?

[marcellis]

He makes a lot of mandolins. That's his big export, I think.
I may have seen one or two ukes there. I don't recall.

I have zero oversight - zero business connection with him.
Pretty soon though, I'm going to visit the factory. I've never
been there before. I'll take some pic's.

If someone requests, I'll visually inspect an instrument
before he ships it. But I don't have any financial interest in this.

He's my luthier. I just try to help him out.

Come to think of it though - I've brought him so much business,
that one of these days, I might lean on him for a free guitar.
Haven't tried yet though.

[cloudswinger]

Well, I was more thinking along the lines of having a custom ukulele made. I was planning on visiting again in a year or two(just got back from there in Jan) and wanted to know if I could have the whole build done while I was there(maybe 3-4 weeks usually), or have it started beforehand and pick it up myself.

[jackbart1960]

I've recently played a couple of the Baden guitars that are being made in Viet Nam. These are not cheap POS's. They're a grand+ and very nice instuments.
They really didn't bite me in the but, as I'm in the market for a good acoustic these days, with that said they're a nice guitar and very competitive in the price point.
Oh ya my take on the counterfit guitar thing. It's a crime plain and simple. By buying these instument you are furthering a criminal enterprise. What other schemes are they involed in? Drugs,human traficing, fake pharma., it has to be stopped and why not start with your discretional spending. Peace. J.J.B.

[marcellis]

I looked at the Baden Guitars website. (http://www.badenguitars.com)

A grand is too much. You can do much better on Luthier Street in Saigon.
You can buy two comparable guitars for that kind of money. $500 is
about the top price I've seen right now.

Of course, then you have to ship them. That's what kills you.

Their jumbo looks pretty nice though.

[metalScorpion7]

[QUOTE=marcellis;30224473]One of the major industries here is counterfeiting stuff, watches, handbags, shirts, I-Pods, athletic shoes, inter alia.
You name it - they can fake it.

Here is what they cannot yet fake on guitars though.

1. Tuners. The tuners on the fakes will not be Grovers, Schallers, Gotohs, and nobody has yet learned to fake these to my knowledge.
Check the shape of the keys, angle & location of tuners too. Tune it up. Play something. Does it hold?

2. Setup. The guitars here may sound fabulous. But very few of them will play very well.
Of course, I've seen real Gibsons in the store that have frets like railroad ties. My son bought an new SG in GC
that he had to spend $200 at Jimmie Foster's shop to get the frets usable.

3. The fonts on labels, decals. Check for spelling errors too. English is not their native language.

4. The font on the serial numbers (on the label and engraved behind the headstock in the case of Guilds.)

5. The serial numbers themselves. Check it against manufacturer's serial numbers & the years the guitars were
manufactured. The counterfeiters aren't yet that careful.

I've seen fake Les Pauls for sale here a few times. One look at the price was enough to know it was a fake.
But taking a second look at the tuners and that was all you needed to see.

Here is what they do extremely well:

1. Woods - the woods on local guitars (legit & counterfeit), are as good or better than the woods on the brands in GC.
They have been working with wood, laquer and inlay for thousands of years over here. They're really good.

2. Sound - the best guitars from this part of the world sound as good as anything GC sells today.

3. Pickups - Korean counterfeiters have mastered fake pickups. I'd rather have a Korean counterfeit Fishman Prefix than a real one.

4. Inlay: Another way to spot a fake guitar is the inlay. The inlay artists here are better than the ones working in the West.
But sometimes, they are too good. If you see a Gibson, Martin, Guild, inter alia, and the inlay dazzles you - it may be a Vietnamese fake.

Here is a photo of a real Marcellis brand Archtop. It's an off-brand. Nobody has yet counterfeited it
to my knowledge.

http://music.marcellis.net/full_view.JPG

That brings up a final point, prevention.

1. Don't buy from the internet unless it is a well-known dealer.

2. Don't buy brands or models that are commonly faked.

In Vietnam, I've seen fake Martin D-28's, Gibson Les Pauls & Fender Strats. That's all.
I don't think they know about a lot of the other premium brands or models yet.[/yeah they also make fake esp's and ibanez now:mad: ]

[marcellis]

What's an ESP? I'm not familiar with that brand.

It seems stupid to build fake low-price guitars.
It makes more sense to counterfeit a Gibson or a Martin.

But maybe they're doing it in volume.

They're not being sold in Binh's shop though.
I'd stop shopping there and I'd publicly denounce him
if they were.

BTW, an expat friend of mine just had an archtop made there.
It had his name inlaid on the top.

It is an incredible beauty. I'll try to get a pic.

[Chuck Carter]

In looking for guitars, if it looks too good to be true it probably is. Having been recently stung by TradeTang with counterfeit fake Rickenbackers I can tell you it is not always easy to spot a fake. Know this, the English words "Bait and Switch" do not translate into Chinese. Neither do the words "Consumer Protection".

If you buy from them you do so knowing full well that your guitar was probably made on a Friday before the annual Yak festival by angry Mongols in the Gobi Desert. In other words, Quality Control just went out the window.

While the Koreans and Japanese have mastered craftsman ship that rivals anything we produce here, the Chinese have only mastered getting your dollar any way possible and will even show you pictures of American made merchandise to lure your in then send you driftwood with strings calling it an original.

On fakes you probably will not find a stamp indicating where the guitar was made. You also may not find a serial number that you can trace. Logos that are embossed on an original may be hand painted in poor English on a fake.
My counterfiet "RIC's" are 12 strings that use 6 string trapese tailpieces instead of the proper 12 slotted ones and lack the trademark "R" on the tailpiece. They just put 2 strings in each tailpiece hole and did not think that the tailpiece was overstressed. You probably will not receive a case or certificate of authenticity with the fake either.

Buyer beware - be very aware!

[birrudpla]

Works great! Thank you for posting this.

[Chuck Carter]

Works great! Thank you for posting this.
It is my hope in posting this warning that others will avoid the TradeTang site and not be ripped off. Maybe, just maybe, U.S. Customs will do their job and protect American copyrights from predatory mercnants like these by actually inspecting the packages that enter our borders instead of reading only the shipping labels and alert us to fakes before we get stuck with them. Lets send a strong message to China and send their counterfeit merchandise home.
I don't mind equal trade but this is blatent deception with the aim of undermining our economy. If they had only provided the merchandise they show in the photos and stood behind the consumer this would never have been an issue and might have blossemed into a lasting relationship between customer and merchant. As it stands, it appears to be a national pastime ripping off Americans sanctioned by the Chinese government and I have now made it my crusade to prevent this from happening to others. More to follow - this ain't done yet folks, not by a long shot.