Fake Teles and Strats can be hard to spot.

[Professor Tom]

I have a friend who is a serious collector and a man of great experience on these things and even he has been stiffed once or twice.
With vintage Fenders the only sure way is to avoid E-Bay or private sellers and buy from a dealer with a rock solid reputation.
Personally, I would go for originals with minor issues like, new pots, old refinishes, rewind pickups maybe, a refret done well etc. You can save a lot of money that way and the guitar will still play, feel and sound like it should.

[larryguitar]

I have a friend who is a serious collector and a man of great experience on these things and even he has been stiffed once or twice.
With vintage Fenders the only sure way is to avoid E-Bay or private sellers and buy from a dealer with a rock solid reputation.
Personally, I would go for originals with minor issues like, new pots, old refinishes, rewind pickups maybe, a refret done well etc. You can save a lot of money that way and the guitar will still play, feel and sound like it should.

+1

I think when you're talking about spending $5k and up, you're as much paying for the provenance and dealer's reputation as you are for the guitar. I've no doubt there are people out there with the knowledge, skills and equipment to make damned near perfect 'relics' and pass them off.

[germs]

Yes, yes there are.

I met one in a local music store a few months ago. The cocky sumbitch was arrogant enough to show me his pocketfull of waterslides and tell me how he buys Squiers, upgrades a few things (from some well-known aftermarket suppliers), and then relics them. He said (supposedly) that with minimal investment on upgrades, he can turn a $300 guitar into a $800-1000 guitar in two days on ebay.

I wish I had kicked him in the nuts.

[Bobby D]

Several issues these days with vintage Fender.

1. I have been buying them since the early 80s. How is it that there appears to be MORE of them now than there were then, especially the rare custom colors????:cop::cop::cop:

2. I would rather dig one up myself, and buy it from the owner, than to buy it from a dealer. Most guitars that have been in a "vintage marketplace" have been modded or messed with somehow.

3. Vintage Fender guitars are far too easy to make replicas of, especially if the buyer isn't too experienced.

Personally, there are some dealers I trust....and I trust my own judgement pretty well when it comes to vintage guitars...but it is starting to get REALLY hard to tell the shit from the shinola.

:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

[HighTower]

I just got a used MIM tele and looked up the SN# on Fender and it said the date # is " MZ2 followed by 5 digits" ; mine is followed by 6 digits.
What's with that??

[GuitarHitman]

I just got a used MIM tele and looked up the SN# on Fender and it said the date # is " MZ2 followed by 5 digits" ; mine is followed by 6 digits.
What's with that??

Mine is the same. I've got an FSR 60s Reverse Strat. I emailed Fender with the serial number and I was emailed back and the serial corresponded with the model.

I can't find anything else that suggests the guitar is fake. Fender logo looks flawless - it's not a crappy decal... weight seems good, spec matches Fender spec with hex key sizes and all.

I haven't taken the guitar apart but appears genuine enough to me.

[Force Majeure]

Several issues these days with vintage Fender.

1. I have been buying them since the early 80s. How is it that there appears to be MORE of them now than there were then, especially the rare custom colors????:cop::cop::cop:

Yeah, I constantly wonder about the massive amounts of vintage pre-CBS and late 60s early 70s necks, pickups and multitudes of other fender parts that is for sale on ebay every week. Some of them even have a price that is way too low for such an part. :confused:

Scary, I would never dare to buy an old fender, these days. :eek:

[GarysBlues]

You have to out of you mind to buy a Vin Strat off of E-Bay. The trully hinest dealers will post dozens of photo's and also ask that the guitar be picked up in person in many case's. Thats as close as I would go with E-Bay.

But I was in GC the other day and they a late 65 Strat on the wall with a Re-Fin laquer paint job in a Green I have never seen before. How could you trust thta? And the price was good at $10G?. Suposedly the rest of the guitar was original except the switch and the input jack.

Thats the way to buy a Vintage Strat to play. But now that GC has a Tech on sight, they want you to take HIS-WORD and NOT take the guitar apart?

I don't think so!

[notrfk]

Yes, yes there are.

I met one in a local music store a few months ago. The cocky sumbitch was arrogant enough to show me his pocketfull of waterslides and tell me how he buys Squiers, upgrades a few things (from some well-known aftermarket suppliers), and then relics them. He said (supposedly) that with minimal investment on upgrades, he can turn a $300 guitar into a $800-1000 guitar in two days on ebay.

I wish I had kicked him in the nuts.

I've met these guys as well. One guy got the bright idea after getting into the auto paint business and would use his spray booth to color match rare finish colors before having a buddy do the relic-job.

In your guy's case, at least you can rest assured that anyone who knows anything about vintage guitars should be able to spot aftermarket hardware replacements from AllParts or StewMac or whoever. Caveat emptor, I suppose.

Ebay used to be so much more useful before it became a haven for scammers.

[notrfk]

But I was in GC the other day and they a late 65 Strat on the wall with a Re-Fin laquer paint job in a Green I have never seen before. How could you trust thta? And the price was good at $10G?. Suposedly the rest of the guitar was original except the switch and the input jack.

Thats the way to buy a Vintage Strat to play. But now that GC has a Tech on sight, they want you to take HIS-WORD and NOT take the guitar apart!

Not a shocker from GC. That's the way they do things. For the most part they have no real vintage knowledge, and anything that has any loose connection to being a vintage piece gets a ridiculous price tag put on it. Then they will tell you that their vintage specialists have checked it and verified it -- that's BS. Many pieces labeled "vintage" at GC have no proof, documentation, or real verification behind them.

I would say "buyer beware," but when it comes to GC, I say "buyer run away!!!"

[Shooter1371]

Do actual vintage fenders (pre-CBS) have serial numbers? Does Fender keep a database to authenticate vintage fenders? There's a jaguar in my local GC that I'm not too sure about. It has all the appropriate wear and dings but its hanging about twenty feet up, and they won't let you inspect it. Its priced at about $6K.

[Screaming Stone]

Not a shocker from GC. That's the way they do things. For the most part they have no real vintage knowledge, and anything that has any loose connection to being a vintage piece gets a ridiculous price tag put on it. Then they will tell you that their vintage specialists have checked it and verified it -- that's BS. Many pieces labeled "vintage" at GC have no proof, documentation, or real verification behind them.

I would say "buyer beware," but when it comes to GC, I say "buyer run away!!!"

How are vintage pieces certified?

I ask because I used buy/sell vintage gear - and the only way we would be able to determine if it was authentic is by visually inspecting the piece and have as many knowledgeable gear-heads take a look - I'd also call other vintage experts and ask them what they thought and what to look for... but it still comes down to how do you actually know??? Because vintage serial numbers are listed, you can't rely on that. You can also forge original documents.

So how do you certify vintage? Or can you even certify it vintage (how expensive is carbon dating and is it accurate for items less than 100 years old??

[JetJaguar]

1. I have been buying them since the early 80s. How is it that there appears to be MORE of them now than there were then, especially the rare custom colors????:cop::cop::cop:


Reminds me of a quote I read the other day: about 1700 sunburst LP's were made between '58-'60, but there are about 3200 of them now on the vintage market.

[Screaming Stone]

How are vintage pieces certified?

I ask because I used buy/sell vintage gear - and the only way we would be able to determine if it was authentic is by visually inspecting the piece and have as many knowledgeable gear-heads take a look - I'd also call other vintage experts and ask them what they thought and what to look for... but it still comes down to how do you actually know??? Because vintage serial numbers are listed, you can't rely on that. You can also forge original documents.

So how do you certify vintage? Or can you even certify it vintage (how expensive is carbon dating and is it accurate for items less than 100 years old??

I need to add that I also spent some time working for GC (one of the Washington state stores.) They have one of, if not the best networks of vintage knowledgable employees available. You're crazy if you think corporate is going to let a salesguy use corporate funds to buy something that may not be actual vintage. Having been there - I'm more comfortable buying vintage from a GC than from some Ebay seller.

BUT - even with that being said - buyer beware when buying vintage. You better know everything about the piece you're buying and be completely satisfied leaving the store because most vintage sellers do not allow returns on vintage gear. It's not a game for noobs.

[BG76]

Several issues these days with vintage Fender.

1. I have been buying them since the early 80s. How is it that there appears to be MORE of them now than there were then, especially the rare custom colors????:cop::cop::cop:

2. I would rather dig one up myself, and buy it from the owner, than to buy it from a dealer. Most guitars that have been in a "vintage marketplace" have been modded or messed with somehow.

3. Vintage Fender guitars are far too easy to make replicas of, especially if the buyer isn't too experienced.

Personally, there are some dealers I trust....and I trust my own judgement pretty well when it comes to vintage guitars...but it is starting to get REALLY hard to tell the shit from the shinola.

:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

This is so true. I remember at the smaller shows in the 80s there would be a few 50s Strats and maybe a couple Teles, but the majority of what you saw were post-CBS stuff. Again, I'm not talking about the huge shows like NYC or Texas.

I remember seeing TONS of late 60s/70s Strats with changed pickups, brass nuts, Floyds and Khalers, etc....

Now I never see any of those converted guitars.

Logic would lead me to believe they are either sitting in cases in their owner's homes or they were covered up and sold. When was the last time you saw an early 70s Strat with a Khaler and Dimarzios being sold? They were EVERYWHERE!

I remember looking hard for 2 years for a 59 Junior in TV. I finally got one (from Guitar Broker) when I settled for a 60. Now I see them all over.

[Super Bass]

Reminds me of a quote I read the other day: about 1700 sunburst LP's were made between '58-'60, but there are about 3200 of them now on the vintage market.

I think that's because of conversions. There are a lot of people that "convert" their early 50's Les Pauls into 58's or 59's. Add to this you got guys making copies, some of which look more authentic than the real thing! :eek:

[GtrGeorge!]

Mybe this has been said before..but I havent seen it...but I'll state it here anyway.
before you lay out a large sum of money for a supposed Vintage Guitar, get it authenticated by a reputable person. George Gruhn, Ron DeMarino and others are experts at knowing what Fender did in their factories..I know this bevcause I have spent alot of time talking with Ron, for example.
its well worth paying them a few dollars..rather than buy a FAKE.

[sc4589]

This is one of my old guitars.

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a345/S65-AMG/1959%20Gibson%20Les%20Paul%20Special/IMG_3026.jpg

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a345/S65-AMG/1959%20Gibson%20Les%20Paul%20Special/IMG_3378.jpg

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a345/S65-AMG/1959%20Gibson%20Les%20Paul%20Special/IMG_3022.jpg

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a345/S65-AMG/1959%20Gibson%20Les%20Paul%20Special/IMG_3024.jpg

The most stunning replica I've ever owned. Swapped it with a guy for a genuine 1965 Fender Twin, and two weeks later saw him advertising it on eBay as a real '59.

[bobtec]

The only way I could tell was the soldering on the pot It would of faked me if not Nice job on Jr

[nickfromdtown]

quit tip
on gibson les pauls
the truss rod cover will have 2 screws and not 3
and the gibson logo will always be slanted
never horizontal
and on strats the only way to tell for 100% certain is to take off the neck and look at the serial number =[
so on strats and fenders its VERY tricky

[Chuck Carter]

I just got a used MIM tele and looked up the SN# on Fender and it said the date # is " MZ2 followed by 5 digits" ; mine is followed by 6 digits.
What's with that??
Your serial number indicates that the instrument is made in Mexico. That is not so bad since it is easily upgradeable with new aftermarket pickups, pots, pickguards available from a number of sources. Check out stewart MacDonald on line for parts and prices. The body on yours is solid wood as opposed to some Squiers that are made from laminate plywood. At least it is a genuine Fender.