Real, or a pretty good fake? (eBay Les Paul)

[Alex_SF]

So this (http://cgi.ebay.com/Gibson-Les-Paul-Standard-Desert-Burst-New_W0QQitemZ190252469261QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item1 90252469261&_trkparms=72%3A1205|39%3A1|66%3A2|65%3A12|240%3A13 18&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14) (link to eBay auction) is supposedly a 2008 LP Standard in Desert Burst.

My first indication that it might be a phony: it's located in Asia (Singapore). That in itself is not necessarily a red flag (meaning "stop the race"), but it is definitely a waving yellow ("caution") flag, and grounds for a very close inspection.

If it's a fake, they've done a pretty good job at much of the usually-obvious stuff. The Gibson logo on the headstock is straight and appears to be inlaid pearl, it has a USA-looking bridge with no screw slots in the bridge posts, it's got an authentic-looking 2-hole truss rod cover, and the headstock shape looks pretty good. BUT:

* Looking closer at the headstock shape (http://images41.fotki.com/v1266/photos/9/993109/6598330/LPStandardheadstock-vi.jpg), the top part of it (the "butt-cleft" portion in the middle) appears to be raised a little higher relative to the "wings" at the sides than normal.

* The back (http://images39.fotki.com/v1290/photos/9/993109/6598330/LPStandardbackofbody-vi.jpg) is painted opaque gloss black instead of finished in natural mahogany. They don't do this on burst-finish LP Standards, do they?

* The serial number (http://images38.fotki.com/v1272/photos/9/993109/6598330/LPstandardbackofheadstock-vi.jpg) is not legible in the photos, and though they're not the greatest quality, I can't tell whether there's a "Made in USA" stamp on the back of the headstock either.

* The truss rod cover (http://images41.fotki.com/v1266/photos/9/993109/6598330/LPStandardheadstock-vi.jpg) butts right up against the nut. Is this an example of what larryguitar pointed out in this comment (http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/showpost.php?p=30212897&postcount=6) on the "Tips for Spotting a Fake Gibson" thread? Or is it just a bad-quality photo at a funny angle?

So what's the verdict? I've got my opinion; what do you all think?

[Screaming Stone]

I would question the seller on:
-Can't see "Made in USA" on back of headstock
-Zoom in on the frets - looks like binding was applied before frets (on Gibsons the binding is applied after the frets are put in and will cover the edge of the frets)

[Exdeath]

Looks like bound fret nibs, and Desert Bursts have black backs.

[sschultz242]

If it's a fake, it's a damn good one. Two things about it are bothering me. One is the gap on the "o" of the gibson logo. That's one thing that has always stood out to me on the fakes i've seen. Two, and this one im also not sure about, but aren't gibson tuners slightly angles to kinda curve with the headstock? Again i'm not positive here. But those are something's id wanna check out first

[Alex_SF]

I'm now a little less skeptical knowing they paint the backs of the Desert Bursts. The headstock could go either way, and maybe some of what looks funny to me is just bad photography. Would still ask for S/N and check it out with Gibson before bidding, but that's good policy in general.

[larryguitar]

So this (http://cgi.ebay.com/Gibson-Les-Paul-Standard-Desert-Burst-New_W0QQitemZ190252469261QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item1 90252469261&_trkparms=72%3A1205|39%3A1|66%3A2|65%3A12|240%3A13 18&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14) (link to eBay auction) is supposedly a 2008 LP Standard in Desert Burst.

My first indication that it might be a phony: it's located in Asia (Singapore). That in itself is not necessarily a red flag (meaning "stop the race"), but it is definitely a waving yellow ("caution") flag, and grounds for a very close inspection.

If it's a fake, they've done a pretty good job at much of the usually-obvious stuff. The Gibson logo on the headstock is straight and appears to be inlaid pearl, it has a USA-looking bridge with no screw slots in the bridge posts, it's got an authentic-looking 2-hole truss rod cover, and the headstock shape looks pretty good. BUT:

* Looking closer at the headstock shape (http://images41.fotki.com/v1266/photos/9/993109/6598330/LPStandardheadstock-vi.jpg), the top part of it (the "butt-cleft" portion in the middle) appears to be raised a little higher relative to the "wings" at the sides than normal.

* The back (http://images39.fotki.com/v1290/photos/9/993109/6598330/LPStandardbackofbody-vi.jpg) is painted opaque gloss black instead of finished in natural mahogany. They don't do this on burst-finish LP Standards, do they?

* The serial number (http://images38.fotki.com/v1272/photos/9/993109/6598330/LPstandardbackofheadstock-vi.jpg) is not legible in the photos, and though they're not the greatest quality, I can't tell whether there's a "Made in USA" stamp on the back of the headstock either.

* The truss rod cover (http://images41.fotki.com/v1266/photos/9/993109/6598330/LPStandardheadstock-vi.jpg) butts right up against the nut. Is this an example of what larryguitar pointed out in this comment (http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/showpost.php?p=30212897&postcount=6) on the "Tips for Spotting a Fake Gibson" thread? Or is it just a bad-quality photo at a funny angle?

So what's the verdict? I've got my opinion; what do you all think?

From that angle, it's hard to say. My best guess would be 'probably alright.'

Here's a legit headstock shot, where you can clearly see the gap between the nut and the TRC:
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y197/larry1096/LPSTFIGH_Les_Paul_Studio_HPheadstoc.jpg

[MV4824]

http://www.ennbr.com/images/Gibson%20LP%20Desert%20Burst.jpg

http://images37.fotki.com/v1259/photos/9/993109/6598330/LPstandardbody-vi.jpg

The top is real, the second is the ebay one. I can't help but notice that the bodies do not look identical on the left side of the body..

The Ebay looks nicely done, but it probably isn't a real one.

[omni]

Looks real to me, if not that is the best looking fake I have ever seen.:eek: I say it's the real deal.

[goodwater]

I'd say it's probably real

[strtdv]

I think the TRC cover thing is just glare from the flash.

The bad SN and 'Made in USA' stamp are an out of focus shot. I'd ask the seller to post a better one.

If it's a fake, its the best one I've seen.

From what I'm seeing, those photos are of a real LP. Whether this is what you'd get if you clicked 'buy it now' is another matter of course.

[Exdeath]

http://www.ennbr.com/images/Gibson%20LP%20Desert%20Burst.jpg

http://images37.fotki.com/v1259/photos/9/993109/6598330/LPstandardbody-vi.jpg

The top is real, the second is the ebay one. I can't help but notice that the bodies do not look identical on the left side of the body..

The Ebay looks nicely done, but it probably isn't a real one.

Desert burst on Standards looks different from what you linked. That's a Premium Plus, IIRC. (http://images.google.ca/images?hl=en&q=desert+burst&btnG=Search+Images&gbv=2)

[StratGuy22]

To me, the logo doesn't look precise enough, and I don't know about the grain of the guitar. I'd say its a fake.

[Alex_SF]

From what I'm seeing, those photos are of a real LP. Whether this is what you'd get if you clicked 'buy it now' is another matter of course.

I got the S/N from the seller and called Gibson. They said it matched up with an '08 LP Standard in Desert Burst, 60s neck, AA top. That seems pretty good to me -- I withdraw my skepticism about this guitar.

But it goes to show you that, despite some people thinking counterfeits are not a big deal, the number of them out there really hurts buyer confidence on the secondhand market.

[theblackkat]

From that angle, it's hard to say. My best guess would be 'probably alright.'

Here's a legit headstock shot, where you can clearly see the gap between the nut and the TRC:
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y197/larry1096/LPSTFIGH_Les_Paul_Studio_HPheadstoc.jpg

I see no such gap in said picture :poke:

[crewdog151]

[QUOTE=TRevMFB;30239851]not the place to start that, there's other threads here designed for politics.

let the guy have whatever he wants in his signature.



Your right, My apologies, I don't post on this particular forum much and wasn't thinking about that when I posted. Was mean to be light hearted but I can see how it could be thought of otherwise.:cop::poke::thu::thu::facepalm:

[dcallen]

it's not a 2008 Les Paul Standard, they look like this (http://www.gibson.com/en-us/divisions/gibson%20usa/products/lespaul/2008-standard/)...

Notice the "standard" in white letters on the headstock?

[larryguitar]

I see no such gap in said picture :poke:

Um-glasses?

[pluginbabies]

Hmm, it looks iffy to me, especially the headstock. The silk screened "Les Paul Model" is too close to the nut / truss rod cover compared to a legit one, and there's too much headstock above the tuners.

...and the frets look like they overlap the binding

[Bruce Bennett]

as an ex-Gibson Emp.
I would say that it's real...

too many of the fine details fit right. I blew the photos up and the fret nibs are there and correct..the logo is exactly correct. and yes the slot in the "O" is right... as is the dot high over the "i"... the TRC is right on for a 2008 model

if it's NOT real... then it's handmade by someone that deserves
"Gibson money" at the very least.


it's more likely that the " Ebay Auction" is fake and the guitar is just some photos of a real gibson some guy in singapore put up to scam your bucks...

but I've been wrong before, and I'll be wrong some more.

[catalinagoose]

Hmm, it looks iffy to me, especially the headstock. The silk screened "Les Paul Model" is too close to the nut / truss rod cover compared to a legit one, and there's too much headstock above the tuners.

...and the frets look like they overlap the binding

:lol: It's real

[Super Bass]

I say it's real. Check the sellers feedback, they've sold 3 other guitars recently and those look real. The buyers gave positive feedback too.

[IuseSG]

Keep in mind the angles that the pics were taking at. And as far as the serial number goes, alot of the new gibsons have them covered with paint the only ones that have them clearly visible are the worn ones. I see alot of those I work at a guitar store.

[AndThinkOfTexas]

If it's a fake, it's a damn good one. Two things about it are bothering me. One is the gap on the "o" of the gibson logo. That's one thing that has always stood out to me on the fakes i've seen. Two, and this one im also not sure about, but aren't gibson tuners slightly angles to kinda curve with the headstock? Again i'm not positive here. But those are something's id wanna check out first

I agree with nearly everything you've said...

The gap found on the top of the "o" is too large, IMO. Additionally - the "n" seems a bit too thin. Compare again:

REAL --> http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y197/larry1096/LPSTFIGH_Les_Paul_Studio_HPheadstoc.jpg

FAKE --> http://images41.fotki.com/v1266/photos/9/993109/6598330/LPStandardheadstock-vi.jpg

Am I seeing things?


Also - as the quote mentions, the tuners (I believe) are a bit slanted on true Les Pauls, as to add a more natural flow to the headstock. I'll search for pics as proof.

((EDIT))
Here's what I mean about the tuners...

REAL -->
http://www.protohost.com/images/gibson_es335_headstock_Sr.jpg

FAKE --> http://images38.fotki.com/v1272/photos/9/993109/6598330/LPstandardbackofheadstock-vi.jpg

Notice, on the "real" photo, how the tuners seems to line up to the edge a bit more? To me, they flow with the shape, so to speak. Again - I could be imagining things, but to me the ebay guitar's tuners look too straight.

[catalinagoose]

I agree with nearly everything you've said...

The gap found on the top of the "o" is too large, IMO. Additionally - the "n" seems a bit too thin. Compare again:

REAL --> http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y197/larry1096/LPSTFIGH_Les_Paul_Studio_HPheadstoc.jpg

FAKE --> http://images41.fotki.com/v1266/photos/9/993109/6598330/LPStandardheadstock-vi.jpg

Am I seeing things?


Also - as the quote mentions, the tuners (I believe) are a bit slanted on true Les Pauls, as to add a more natural flow to the headstock. I'll search for pics as proof.

((EDIT))
Here's what I mean about the tuners...


FAKE --> http://images38.fotki.com/v1272/photos/9/993109/6598330/LPstandardbackofheadstock-vi.jpg

Notice, on the "real" photo, how the tuners seems to line up to the edge a bit more? To me, they flow with the shape, so to speak. Again - I could be imagining things, but to me the ebay guitar's tuners look too straight.

I have my 2002 Standard sitting here and the tuners are in line just like the LP in the eBay ad. It has an identical pearl logo too.

[AndThinkOfTexas]

I have my 2002 Standard sitting here and the tuners are in line just like the LP in the eBay ad. It has an identical pearl logo too.

Well, like I said... I could be imagining the differences. But... if it were me, I'd consider all of the evidence against the guitar being real and ask myself whether it's all really just a coincidence. That's a lot going against one guitar: country or origin, yada yada.

[destroyed]

If it's a fake, it's a damn good one. Two things about it are bothering me. One is the gap on the "o" of the gibson logo. That's one thing that has always stood out to me on the fakes i've seen. Two, and this one im also not sure about, but aren't gibson tuners slightly angles to kinda curve with the headstock? Again i'm not positive here. But those are something's id wanna check out first


You can't go by the gap in the O. I have had an SG supreme and a les paul custon, both of which had the gap and they were both bought from the same very reputable dealer.

[GuitarHitman]

They're learning from us where they're going wrong :cry:

I wouldn't touch a single thing on eBay from that part of the globe. I kept telling my other half not to but she does and the house fill up with defective low quality crap :mad:

[hubberjub]

I don't know about the guitar but I think it's funny that the auction only offers UPS Ground shipping.

[Exdeath]

FYI, Singapore isn't a scam haven solely by virtue of it being in close proximity to countries in the same region that are. That's like me saying that America is full of cheap labor and people who wear sombreros just because it's right next to Mexico. It's more comparable to places like Japan than Indonesia.

The main reason I wouldn't buy anything from there, living here, is that shipping is an arm and a leg. But other than that.

[picothinker]

Dimly on-topic, I stumbled across a 1987 article from a guy who toured Fujigen Gakki factories in Japan. (http://jimshine.com/fuji/) It is translated from German, but you can follow it well enough.

The article is mostly about legit Fender manufacture, it doesn't specifically mention the lawsuit guitars, but near the very end it mentions;
The "kings of copying", Fernandez and Tokai had to narrow their product-line. The bankruptcy of Tokai certainly had its reason here.

The rest of that site, jimshine.com (http://jimshine.com) has lots of vintage Fender specs, etc. He also has some information about older Philipino copies, (http://www.jimshine.com/phillipino/vietnam_serviceman_copies.htm) some of which aren't even playable.

[les_paul]

You know, its much easier to buy a new guitar. That way you don't have to worry whether its fake or not. ;-)

[marcellis]

http://images41.fotki.com/v1266/photos/9/993109/6598330/LPStandardheadstock-vi.jpg

Are the inlays on the fretboard crooked? Or is that just the angle of the photo.
Maybe real Gibsons have crooked inlays. I don't know.

[thezealots]

you have to remember that although there are some small imperfections, gibson's qc is down the shitter right now.

[aliensporebomb]

The only thing about that guitar in the original pic showed seemed to have
the area with the toggle switch out of proportion with the bottom portion
of the guitar.

But it sounds like it's real, it probably had a lot to do with the angle of the
photography.

One good way to recognize fakes is some of the color schemes go at
odds with real Gibson color schemes.

But those producing the fakes may be aware of this now.

[lagger]

How nice of you to sign your posts with that!(obama/biden).......Lets everyone know that your not capable of logical thought! And your fellow villiagers may visit here and they will know where their IDIOT went!!! :poke::poke:
I fully expect a witty reply, so let the games begin.
let's see how you deal with mine

[stevejohnson]

But it sounds like it's real, it probably had a lot to do with the angle of the
photography.I'd consider all of the evidence against the guitar being real and ask myself whether it's all really just a coincidence.
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[wchua24]

the picture says it all.

[alphamarquis]

You know, its much easier to buy a new guitar. That way you don't have to worry whether its fake or not. ;-)


I agree whole-heartedly. If you are dropping this kind of money..at least to me...there is some assurance and pride with directly supporting the company you purchased from...even if it is Gibson...it still is an American company...

Thats why I decided to pay an extra $500 for a new Martin HD-28...not to mention a used one I almost bought ended up having a broken brace...

[stratotak]

It looks like the "." on the "i" in Gibson is higher than the one on the pic of a real Gibson headstock??