Need advice on backing tracks hardware

[kbitz]

Hi all, hope this is the right forum...

I play guitar and work with a female singer (irrelevent, but interesting)... Anyway, planning to try a live gig or two. I work up backing tracks on computer, MIDI and MP3 - usually just drums/bass with maybe a bit of piano thrown in. I'd like to be able to play these while I play guitar and the singer sings.

I'm really a beginner in this area. Looked at products like Roland SonicCell but unsure how to go about this. Just an MP3 player plugged into an amp? What setups are favourite? Your advice really appreciated...

[Crownman]

I'm going to assume that you will have at least one monitor for the two of you to share.

Once you have the complete backing tracks, put them on an MP3 player. Plug the player into whatever mixer you are using and run what you need to the main speakers and then a little into your monitor so you can hear it. That's the easiest way to go about it.

[xmlguy]

A sampler like the SP-404 is a better choice than an MP3 player because you can control the backing track better. For example, you could record an intro, different fills, and endings that you can trigger during the performance. Plus it allows you to sample different parts as loops that you can layer in the performance to give a much more dynamic sound than possible by simply pressing play on an MP3 player. The SP-404 also has effects like reverbs and delays.

Another option would be players specifically designed for musical accompaniment, such as Boss Micro BR, which has four tracks, effects, drum patterns, guitar effects and built-in tuner.

[UMT]

I recorded all the backing tracks (mostly keyboards) for my 3 piece band on a BR600 and they sound great! I tried the MP3 player thing but the problem was that I could not find A SINGLE ONE that would play one song and stop. Everyone I saw was setup to cruise from one song into another. I even recorded a 15 second 'blank' song and tried to insert it into the 'playlist' so I had time to end a song, stop the MP3 player and then get it set for the next tune. Not as easy as it sounds and then I had the damn thing hang up on me right in the middle of a tune, so I decided to look for something else.

I got a Gemini single disk - disc jockey style rack mount CD player and it works great. About $100.00 online. Single song setting. Can 'back up/forward/cue' at will. Has pitch controls but I don't use them. Also can set up a 'set list' . Has a remote but I haven't used that yet either.

I know there is argument about audio quality but I don't like the sound of MP3's compared to almost anything else that's lossless. I use MediaMonkey which is a fabulous 'swiss army knife' of audio players/convertors/etc... LOTS of tools. There is a free version also but it will restrict you converting WAV to MP3 (example) after a certain period of time. It was only $20.00 for the full version. Love it.

[stos2]

I am currently doing this, and playing out solo. I play guitar and sing, and I use backing tracks on most songs. I usually only have bass and drums, but occasionally I may add keys/steel drum/sax on select songs. What I use is my iPod connected to my PA. I don't go direct from the iPod to PA, although you certainly could. I use an Alesis iMultimix mixer, which gives me a nice interface for the iPod. I don't have to play around with the tiny iPod buttons in the dark enviroment. It also gives me some nice effects that my PA doesn't have, and I can record straight to the iPod if I want to. That's actually how I made my demo cd for my promo pack. I usually plug my guitar into an amp, but I could also plug it into the iMultimix, and have both guitar and vocals coming from the PA.

Anyway ... that's what I do, and it has been working just fine for over a year now. The only side note: Use an MP3 player that has RAM-based memory, and not a hard drive. The Gen5/Video iPods have hard drives, and can sometimes skip if there is harsh vibrations, like if you set it on top of a speaker or amplifier. The hard drives also sometimes emit a high pitch sound, similar to the sound of the old casette tapes when they rewind, when the hard drive engages. The iPod Nanos are an excellent choice. That's what I use, and have never had any problems what so ever.

The hardware is out there. There are many different ways to skin this cat, this is the approach I took. I like to keep it simple. The sound is excellent as long as the backing tracks are recorded at a high resolution. Good Luck!

[UMT]

I am currently doing this, and playing out solo. I play guitar and sing, and I use backing tracks on most songs. I usually only have bass and drums, but occasionally I may add keys/steel drum/sax on select songs. What I use is my iPod connected to my PA. I don't go direct from the iPod to PA, although you certainly could. I use an Alesis iMultimix mixer, which gives me a nice interface for the iPod. I don't have to play around with the tiny iPod buttons in the dark enviroment. It also gives me some nice effects that my PA doesn't have, and I can record straight to the iPod if I want to. That's actually how I made my demo cd for my promo pack. I usually plug my guitar into an amp, but I could also plug it into the iMultimix, and have both guitar and vocals coming from the PA.

Anyway ... that's what I do, and it has been working just fine for over a year now. The only side note: Use an MP3 player that has RAM-based memory, and not a hard drive. The Gen5/Video iPods have hard drives, and can sometimes skip if there is harsh vibrations, like if you set it on top of a speaker or amplifier. The hard drives also sometimes emit a high pitch sound, similar to the sound of the old casette tapes when they rewind, when the hard drive engages. The iPod Nanos are an excellent choice. That's what I use, and have never had any problems what so ever.

The hardware is out there. There are many different ways to skin this cat, this is the approach I took. I like to keep it simple. The sound is excellent as long as the backing tracks are recorded at a high resolution. Good Luck!

Will your IPod play one song and stop? If not, how did you get around this issue?

[trevcda]

One thing not covered yet; redundancy. Always have two of what ever you decide to go with. Two MP3 players, two CD players (I have a single disc 2ru and discman style for a back up), etc.

The work around for MP3 is adding an additional 15 (or whatever works for you) seconds of time at the end of you MP3s so you have time to stop the playbac or skip to the next track.

[stos2]

UMT - You make some good points. The iPods do not stop after each song, which is indeed a pain. I was also frustrated at this. One way around it, which I did not do, is to make each song its own playlist. However, it then takes several button pushes on the MP3 player to go to the next one. I did what TREVCDA suggests, that is, add a long silence at the end of each song. That way, it gives you plenty of time to stop and then advance to the next tune.

I'll have to check out MediaMonkey. I've never heard of it until now. I used the CD approach before the iPod. It worked well too. I just got tired of always burning new cd's when I changed the set list or the order of tunes. I like my set lists in order. I don't usually have the need to deviate from my setlist, unless I get multiple requests during the evening. It happens, just not that much. Also, I always had a spare CD because eventually, they would get scratched. I didn't always catch the scratch before the gig, and it would skip, which is tragic. Also, most CD players are at least a little susceptable to vibration. I've also used minidisc players, which worked really well, just that the iPod approach was so easy. Plus, the iMultimix made for the perfect interface for me. It's what finally hooked me. I'm not familiar with the Gemini, but it sounds like a good solution if it's easy to navigate and assign song order on the fly.

Finally, I agree with TREVCDA regarding back up. I have two cheap iPods nano players. I bought the ones with the least memory, since I don't need thousands of songs for a gig. That keeps the $$ down. I don't know how to play that many songs.

Anyway ... sorry for the novel. Like I said, there are many ways to skin a cat. Gotta go and check out the SP-404, MediaMonkey and Gemini. Hope this post doesn't cost me more money (ha ha). Keep the ideas coming.

[UMT]

Yeah, I've always had the 'redundancy' thing down. 2 disks, 2 players and a Sansa MP3 style player PLUS the BR600 if things really go to hell. Never had had a problem...

I just wasn't happy with the MP3 player although I wish I could've made it work. Sooner or later somebody will come up with something that will.

In the meantime, the things I mentioned are the best I've been able to come up with without blowing a ton of cash. I'm happy with the results but always looking to make the whole process easier/better.

[moody]

I recorded all the backing tracks (mostly keyboards) for my 3 piece band on a BR600 and they sound great! I tried the MP3 player thing but the problem was that I could not find A SINGLE ONE that would play one song and stop. Everyone I saw was setup to cruise from one song into another. I even recorded a 15 second 'blank' song and tried to insert it into the 'playlist' so I had time to end a song, stop the MP3 player and then get it set for the next tune. Not as easy as it sounds and then I had the damn thing hang up on me right in the middle of a tune, so I decided to look for something else.

Simple solution. Include a blank period after each song. E.g. 25 seconds blank after song. When you are ready for the next song then hit skip forward.

[kbitz]

Thanks everyone for your detailed and thoughtful responses :)

Really like the iPod Nano/iMultimix idea, sounds like an effective and reasonably priced solution, one I would never have thought of myself.

[Rmusic100]

Hey,
Was wondering if one use a laptop to play the MP3 backing tracks?
R

[GCDEF]

Hey,
Was wondering if one use a laptop to play the MP3 backing tracks?
R

I do.

[charlie13]

I use a laptop, but I run straight midi files. The software sequencer I use is called Showplay3 (Win98SE). The later versions run XP or Vista, but I haven't had the need to upgrade as of yet. It's from Canada. Here's their website: www.pridecorp.com I can create set lists. I can change tempo, key, patches, and mute parts.... all while the song is playing. I can view scrolling lyrics or karoake lyrics, whichever I want. And, I can definitely stop and sart sequences at will. This software is setup for the 'live" midi user. I have used Showplay for going on 5 years and it has never crashed. Very stable. Uses limited drive space. Extremely functional.

[The Real MC]

I use a laptop, but I run straight midi files. The software sequencer I use is called Showplay3 (Win98SE). The later versions run XP or Vista, but I haven't had the need to upgrade as of yet. It's from Canada. Here's their website: www.pridecorp.com I can create set lists. I can change tempo, key, patches, and mute parts.... all while the song is playing. I can view scrolling lyrics or karoake lyrics, whichever I want. And, I can definitely stop and sart sequences at will. This software is setup for the 'live" midi user. I have used Showplay for going on 5 years and it has never crashed. Very stable. Uses limited drive space. Extremely functional.

Correct website is http://www.pride-corp.com/

[agedhorse]

Stable on YOUR computer system, it's hard to make a general comment with this type of product IME. It may not be stable on my computer.

[charlie13]

Sorry...The Real MC has it right. BTW, their tech support is excellent.

[sodium]

I use a laptop, but I run straight midi files. The software sequencer I use is called Showplay3 (Win98SE). The later versions run XP or Vista, but I haven't had the need to upgrade as of yet. It's from Canada. Here's their website: www.pridecorp.com I can create set lists. I can change tempo, key, patches, and mute parts.... all while the song is playing. I can view scrolling lyrics or karoake lyrics, whichever I want. And, I can definitely stop and sart sequences at will. This software is setup for the 'live" midi user. I have used Showplay for going on 5 years and it has never crashed. Very stable. Uses limited drive space. Extremely functional.

Could not agree more, Charlie. I've used Showplay for nearly 5 years now @ 150 gigs year and it is rock solid.

Latest versions plays mp3 as well. Just add audio file, then drop your chord/lyric chart in and it syncs it up. Amazing software.

And yes, *incredible* support. International emails returned in a matter of hours, if not minutes.

In fact we (some other pro players and myself) have the only Showplay web forum on the net at our small private pro forum, dedicated to working musos with solo/duo/small band type acts. Members from all sorts of countries, including USA, UK, France, DK, Australia, New Zealand and even Queensland...:lol:

If anyone is interested in joining and seeing what is on offer, please feel free to do so here:
www.real-gigs.com

Most of us there are also long time Showplay Beta Testers, so there is lots of great info from pro users there.Anyhow hope its okay to mention that and maybe see we'll some of you guys who are interested in Showplay (and other pretty cool gigging know-how and equipment) popping in over there..;P)

Cheers,
na.

[ned911]

Since I just crashed our old PC and just bought a Asus Netbook. The little sucker screams. Has no problem running Light Jockey which also runs our backing tracks. Use a Presonus AudioBox for sound since it powers via the USB.

Best part about the netbook is it runs WinXP!!!

[UMT]

My buddy had a old HP laptop that his daughter used. I completely erased the harddrive, loaded it with XP and WinAmp and have used this for about a half dozen shows now and it works flawlessly. Set lists are pre-arranged. Set to stop when I want it too. Works great! I did have to purchase a Turtle Beach USB 'sound card' and THAT really works nice also and, as I only needed the basic model, it was only $30.00.....

[charlie13]

Hi Sodium,

I have Showplay 3.1 and it's never crashed. Really good software for gigging. I am thinking about uprading to the latest version 4.12 (I think) but there are a couple of questions I have, and I hope you can answer them. Can the latest version do looping? For example, you're doing a song and half way through the song some folks decide thay want to dance. I would like to be able to go back to the first verse and then play the sequence through. Is that possible? Secondly, and this is not a question directly related to Showplay, but if I were to run MP3's instead of midi files could I use a sound module or software (Turtle Beach, etc) to get a more authentic sound as opposed to let's say sounds I am currently using in a Yamaha QY700? If that be the case, then what sound module or software would you recommend?

Thanking you in advance for any help you may send my way...

Charlie

P.S. I have signed up to the link you provided to real-gigs.com.

[jayare]

Hi all..Ive used a Digitech Jamman for about 2 yrs ..Flawless!...I use the 2GB flash card---It will hold 99 songs!After recording your backing,transfer to the Jamman.There is a display that shows current song number(from 1 to 99).There are 2 pedals on the Jamman..start,and stop.Also,while the current song is playing,you can cue up the next one if you want. Although it wasnt intended to be used this way..A friend of mine from Texas(Thanks JD!) told me about this ,and it has worked out great
John

[cappttenron]

I am just starting to do the same thing and my solution is using the digitech JamMan. It holds about 3 hours of music on 99 patches. What I will do is record about 10 common drum loops and the songs that have hard stops or need the fills I will record the whole drum track. You can get a foot switch for this unit that will let you scroll through your set list.

I didnt want to go the computer route and I can also make acoustic bass drum sounds on the fly with my stompin bass pedal.

Havent seen anyone use this idea yet plenty of players using loopers though.