Anybody been to the Kustom booth?

[noizemakr73]

I saw pics of the new Kustom "Double cross" Hi-gain head on their site. Did anyone play this at NAMM???? Anybody?!! I wanna know If James Brown hit a home run with this one.

[aortizjr]

NAMM has been over for a while now. But I was just lurking through.

I went by the Kustom booth. The Double Cross you would expect to be a super high gain amp. But according to the rep, it is just slightly more gain than the Coupe tube series. There are more tonal options with the "Double Cross" system, but it is definitely more geared to the non Death Metal stuff.

They weren't allowing general folks to try them. I think they may have had some demos but I didn't see them.

Even if you could try it out, you could get very loud at NAMM at all. So the tube amps would barely breathe anyway. NAMM unfortunately is not really the best venue for amp trying. It is a good way to get the information on the company, features, design principles, etc. But to hear the amps is a bit rough.

EDIT: As explained below I didn't get a full story from the Rep. So Please Read On!

[noizemakr73]

Thanks for the reply, I was hoping for the second coming of the xxx or 5150 I guess. I will just have to wait till I can try one at my local dealer when they show up.:thu:

[AmpTweaker]

[QUOTE=aortizjr;26296802]
I went by the Kustom booth. The Double Cross you would expect to be a super high gain amp. But according to the rep, it is just slightly more gain than the Coupe tube series. There are more tonal options with the "Double Cross" system, but it is definitely more geared to the non Death Metal stuff.

They weren't allowing general folks to try them.QUOTE]


Sorry our rep misdirected you on the Double Cross.....and the demo room. I demoed the amp all weekend at NAMM, and I would have loved to let you give it a whirl in our small soundroom.

It has a LOT more gain than the Coupe Hardtop, which has slightly less lead gain than the JSX lead channel. The thing that's interesting and different is the WAY the extra gain is added. I believe it simultaneously has the best tone of high gain and the best feel of lower gain amps, and we had plenty of 'Death Metal' guys who tried it and are lining up to get one.

Any time I've designed higher gain amps I've always noticed how the more gain you add in the traditional way, the more compressed the guitar gets. I used a XXX when I played gigs, and sometimes I felt like the harder I hit the strings the SOFTER the output would sound. Anyway, I felt like the Hardtop had just enough gain but not too much so that it reacted well to your touch and you could hear the guitar's pickup really well, so when I started on the higher-gain Double Cross I didn't want to lose the Hardtop's inherent dynamics.

The other compromise has always been dialing in how tight or loose the preamp distortion sounded. Many people like amps with floppier, thicker distortion, but others don't like the way it makes the attack feel so slow. In the past I had always had to tweak this characteristic carefully, even changing it specifically between the 5150 and 5150II to meet EVH's changing needs. After that I had many people requesting mods to change it back and forth, so I do know that it's a critical element of our tones.

So when I added the extra tube for gain, I tried something different ....mixing tube stages together that have different type of attack, so that you can actually hear those all at the same time without losing the original amp's basic feel/tone. It sounds a little bit like playing multiple amps that have different attack and feel all at once, where you hear the thickness of the heavier sounding one, but the slightly cleaner ones cut through. The resulting tone sort of tailors itself to whatever you're playing....if you play a power chord it sounds thick, but if you play single note runs and beat on it, it cuts through and is very aggressive, and if you play softly you can actually hear the difference. Anyone who has played a lot of different amps knows how difficult it is to get all 3.

The amp has 2 lead channels that are voiced slightly differently, and each has switches to add these extra 12AX7 gain stages in: 1 switch simply increases the gain in a traditional more compressed kind of way. a 2nd is labelled Tight Stage, which adds in a tube tweaked for a a chimey, extra-chunky attack. the 3rd is labelled Thick Stage, which adds another tube stage with a thicker, slightly sloppier feeling attack. Finally the Bright switch works just like the Hardtop, and it makes further adjustment to the chiminess and tightness of the attack. The cool part is that you can mix any or all of them together so for the first time in an amp, you don't have to trade off between tightness, cutting through, sustain, and thick rich distortion.

Combined with our Direct Out circuit that has a switch to select 412 straight or slant, footswitchable EFX loop, footswitchable Master Solo Boost, a special Tight input that makes the whole amp's attack even more agressive, and a clean channel with its own Master so you can get anything from crystal clean to Angus crunch, and I think it's the best amp I've ever designed.

As you can see by my 'long windedness' I'm pretty excited about this amp, and you might say that I've been working on it for over 20 years as I've learned various things about high gain amps and how they react to our hands. I'm final-tweaking some minor issues, and plan to finish it up in the next couple of months. Hopefully you guys will check it out and find that it's something different and quite special in a sea of heavy tube heads.

James B

[kent allard]

amptweaker,
sounds like you thought about this for a bit before you burnt solder;i like that.
is the amp on the kustom website?

[tws!]

Sounds interesting. I'm gonna go search it.

[AmpTweaker]

I do spend a lot of time thinking about amps, especially finding ways to make them more useful for live applications. I think you can work around little issues in the studio, but live is where the features all have to work together. So we always try to come up with things to make everybody's life easier at gigs.

The amp isn't in the product section yet, but the very first page of the site has a pdf with a bunch of info on it and other NAMM products.

Here's the link to it:
http://www.kustom.com/Content/20081/Kustom2008NewsWeb.pdf

Have fun!
James

[aortizjr]

Very cool! Amptweaker I am glad you saw this thread and jumped in. I am sad I missed you at the demo booth.

But this sounds like a killer amp!

[simplyjonny]

Hey amptweaker! My name is Jon and I'm the manager of a locally owned music store in Ann Arbor, Michigan. We are a Kustom dealer and recently, we had a '72 coupe 2x12 that I absolutely LOVED! I thought the clean tone was the warmest I'd ever heard and the gain was just enough for my heavy rock styles with a lot of distinction but great sustain.
Unfortunately, just a few days before I was going to buy it for myself, we were broken into and robbed and the coupe was one of the stolen items :cry:
Since then, I was looking at a '72 Hardtop. Well, to make a long story short, I went to the Kustom website and saw the Double Cross. After reading the article, I was very impressed and decided that this is most likely the amp that I NEED to use.
So here are my questions:
Since you designed the '72 coupe as well as the Double Cross, is the Double Cross essentially a '72 coupe with an extra lead channel and mod switches?
Also, what ohm-age does it run out at?
And lastly, how do you think the Double Cross would sound when run through a 4x12 with Celestion Vintage 30's?

Thanks a lot for letting us know a bit about your thought process!

Jon
Manager - Oz's Music

[AmpTweaker]

Hey amptweaker! My name is Jon and I'm the manager of a locally owned music store in Ann Arbor, Michigan......Unfortunately, just a few days before I was going to buy it(72Coupe) for myself, we were broken into and robbed and the coupe was one of the stolen items :cry:

So here are my questions:
Since you designed the '72 coupe as well as the Double Cross, is the Double Cross essentially a '72 coupe with an extra lead channel and mod switches?
Also, what ohm-age does it run out at?
And lastly, how do you think the Double Cross would sound when run through a 4x12 with Celestion Vintage 30's?

Thanks a lot for letting us know a bit about your thought process!

Jon
Manager - Oz's Music


Man, sorry to hear about you guys getting broken into at your store.

As for the Double Cross vs. 72 Coupe, yes the Double Cross is actually a modified version of the current 72 coupe Hardtop. I added the extra power tubes, the extra tube via the Cross switches on the lead channel, the Presence controls, and the separate EQs that are voiced specifically for the different tone capabilities. All Kustom tube amps have impedance selectors so you can switch it for different impedance loads, 16/8/4. And the Double Cross is specifically tweaked for our Coupe 412A/B cabs which feature Vintage 30 speakers. In fact, I used the prototype Coupe 412 cabinets to develop the direct out, so it would sound specifically like my original prototype designed cabinet. That way I know that you'll get the sound I was shooting for when tweaking the design.

I'm really fired up about the amp, and I think you guys are gonna be surprised by how unique and musical the distortion can be, when it simultaneously provides high gain thickness and tone, while also providing low gain dynamics and clarity....unlike any other tube amps on the market today.

James B

[simplyjonny]

Thank you so much for your response. This sounds like the amp that I need, so now comes the time to save up! Even with employee discount, it bites the wallet hard, haha.
Also, just wanted to add real quick that I saw 3 using the '72 hardtops when they opened up for Porcupine Tree and they sounded great!

[camer138]

sounds and looks like a killer amp.. im wondering what kind of footswitch jack it has, i want to be able to relay control my next amp with my g major. also what can you compare the clean tones of this amp to?

[Hulston Prickle]

No, I have not.

[simplyjonny]

sounds and looks like a killer amp.. im wondering what kind of footswitch jack it has, i want to be able to relay control my next amp with my g major. also what can you compare the clean tones of this amp to?


I can't really make a comparison, but I can tell you that the cleans, in my opinion, are NOTHING like Fender cleans. I always felt that Fender cleans were SO clean that they were tinny and high-pitched, almost piercing.
The cleans on the '72 coupe are warm and rich. There was nothing "piercing" about them. It was really a joy playing on the clean channels and I'm the kinda guy who loves his overdrive and distortion.

[AmpTweaker]

The footswitch on the 72 Coupe uses a stereo 1/4" plug to access the channels, solo boost, and effects(reverb or tremolo), and can be accessed using the G-major switching by using a circuit I've sent out to a few people. If you get the amp and want to do this, send an email in on the Kustom.com website, and I'll send it out to you.

In addition to a 1/4" footswitch cable for the included footswitch, the new Double Cross actually has a MIDI in jack on the back, which will allow you to program the amp's footswitch setting for each MIDI preset sent to it. You just send the MIDI preset, then footswitch the amp the way you want, then press and hold the SAVE button on the back. Next time that MIDI preset comes in, the amp will return to this setting.

The Channels, Effects loop, and Solo Boost can be selected this way, and their are LED back-lit words on the front of the amp so you always know what's happening.

Anyway, I felt like this method would give the most flexibility without adding confusion like some do by making you MIDI-Map. And the amp's regular footswitch will still operate the amp even if you're using the MIDI in.

James

[camer138]

oh that sounds awsome, now its all down to trying the amp out. when does it go in stores?

[PurpleStain]

I can't really make a comparison, but I can tell you that the cleans, in my opinion, are NOTHING like Fender cleans. I always felt that Fender cleans were SO clean that they were tinny and high-pitched, almost piercing.
The cleans on the '72 coupe are warm and rich. There was nothing "piercing" about them. It was really a joy playing on the clean channels and I'm the kinda guy who loves his overdrive and distortion.


what fender amplifiers have you played??? Fender Twins, at least the blackfaces, and reissues have fat lard cleans that have amazing bottom. The coveted fenders have always been known for having thick warm cleans that match well with brighter fender guitars. Never piercing.

[camer138]

Amptweaker, just to clarify.. would i set it up with my G major like this?

Gmajor Midi Out-->double cross midi in
Footswitch 1/4"-->double cross footswitch in

i want to be able to go from the Clean channel with Patch#1 on it to the lead channel with patch #2 on it in one stomp.

how exactly would i set this up if my way above is incorrect?

[AmpTweaker]

Amptweaker, just to clarify.. would i set it up with my G major like this?

Gmajor Midi Out-->double cross midi in
Footswitch 1/4"-->double cross footswitch in

i want to be able to go from the Clean channel with Patch#1 on it to the lead channel with patch #2 on it in one stomp.

how exactly would i set this up if my way above is incorrect?


Yes, you could hook it up like that. Typically, people who want to do Presets that include the effect choice and the amp's channel selection would also use a separate MIDI footswitch that would send that Preset Number to the Gmajor. At the same time, the Double Crosses footswitch would still be able to operate independently to change the amp's settings afterward.

So, to set the amp up like you suggested, you plug in the MIDI footswitch into the Gmajor MIDI IN. Then set the Gmajor MIDI OUT to the Double Cross MIDI IN. And connect the Double Crosses normal footswitch into that 1/4" jack. To program it: a) all you do is send Preset #1 using the MIDI footswitch, then set the Double Cross to the Rhythm Channel with the Boost off and the Effects Loop ON. Then press and hold the store button on the back of the amp. b) Now hit the Preset #2 on the MIDI footswitch, then set the Double Cross to one of its 2 Lead channels with the Boost off and the Effects Loop ON. Then press and hold the store button on the back of the amp.

That's it. After doing this, you could theoretically leave your amp's footswitch home and just use the Midi preset method. However, I think a lot of people would want to still be able to channel switch and Boost from any preset....kind of like how you would do if you were just using pedals.

I'm busily making final tweaks to the amp, getting rid of a couple of little buzzes and stuff (yeah, I know all tube amps buzz and hum, but I still want it to be as good as possible), and it currently looks like we'll have it out in a couple of months. At first they might be a little hard to find, because we have a lot of artists awaiting these......but we'll be getting them to the stores asap!

Thanks for your interest,
James B

[camer138]

wow thats alot easier than dealing with the regular load of midi stuff, more amps should be designed like this. i just hope i love the tone of this amp so it all works out for me

[camer138]

one last question, is the effects loop series or parallel?

[AmpTweaker]

one last question, is the effects loop series or parallel?

Series.

One last comment: I notice that you list the JSX in your gear. The Fat switch actually came out of a tweak session I did with Joe, where I was tweaking the attack to make it range from tighter to thicker. Though we settled on a 'normal' setting, the switch was added just in case somebody wanted to tweak it for their guitar or playing style.

I'm sure you've noticed how with the switch set to Fat, the attack is softer and has more noticeably thicker distortion....sounds heavier. But with the switch Off, the attack is chunky and tight, but sounds a bit cleaner. It's cool that you can get these choices, but unfortunately you can only have 1 at a time.

This is where the Double Cross has a really unique system...by adding the 'Cross' switches, you add the extra 12AX7 Tight Stage and extra 12AX7 Thick Stage either alone or together. A really simple way of thinking of this is if you could get the Fat switch on your JSX to switch BOTH ways at the same time. On the Double Cross, these stages work together in such a way that when you play palm muted chunky rhythms, the tight stage makes it tight and punchy, but when you strum a big power chord, the thick stage makes it sound more distorted and thick.

And the result is that the amp responds more like you play than any other conventional technology. I can't wait for people to get their hands on it, because I think they'll be able to quickly hear/feel the benefits.....so far all who have tried it get it.

Thanks,
James

[AmpTweaker]

Here's a pic of the Cross switches.
JB

[camer138]

sounds cool, cant wait to try it, a local dealer said theyre getting one in, i'll let you know how i like it

[B Money]

i've just become aware of this thread and must say this amp sounds promising.
One question, what are the 4 switches on the "cross"?
-tight stage ON/OFF
-thick stage ON/OFF
-bright ON/OFF ??
-gain boost ON/OFF??

each of the two lead channels has it's own "cross"? settings, they are not shared?
what is the expected street price of this new monster?

Thanks for the info, it's great to be able to communicate directly with the designer and not have to deal with marketing bozos

[AmpTweaker]

i've just become aware of this thread and must say this amp sounds promising.
One question, what are the 4 switches on the "cross"?
-tight stage ON/OFF
-thick stage ON/OFF
-bright ON/OFF ??
-gain boost ON/OFF??

each of the two lead channels has it's own "cross"? settings, they are not shared?
what is the expected street price of this new monster?

Thanks for the info, it's great to be able to communicate directly with the designer and not have to deal with marketing bozos


Yes, those are the 4 switches, and each of the two Lead channels has its own separate 'cross' of switches. We chose the 'cross' method to emphasize the fact that these things all kind of mix together, or cross the different tube stages in a rather unique way:

1) Bright Switch: Obviously adds some highs, but also tightens up the bottom....more of a British chunky attack when on, and more of a softer American attack when off.
2) Gain Switch: Adds more gain in a 'traditional' way, in a somewhat smoother compressed heavy gain.
3) Tight Stage: Adds an additional 12AX7 tube stage that is voiced for an even more aggressive attack. Very chimey and dynamic.
4) Thick Stage: Adds an additional 12AX7 tube stage that is voiced for more complex, thicker distortion.

And of course these all work together without reducing the effect of the others. It feels quite different than 'normal' high gain, since it really gets louder too when you really strike the strings harder, so it cuts through better when you want it to.

We're shooting for $2000 retail, so that should give you a pretty good idea what the typical street price would be. This amp gives you a lot of control over the tone/feel, but it's STILL easy to get a good sound(my biggest pet peave).

James B

[PurpleStain]

Yes, those are the 4 switches, and each of the two Lead channels has its own separate 'cross' of switches. We chose the 'cross' method to emphasize the fact that these things all kind of mix together, or cross the different tube stages in a rather unique way:

1) Bright Switch: Obviously adds some highs, but also tightens up the bottom....more of a British chunky attack when on, and more of a softer American attack when off.
2) Gain Switch: Adds more gain in a 'traditional' way, in a somewhat smoother compressed heavy gain.
3) Tight Stage: Adds an additional 12AX7 tube stage that is voiced for an even more aggressive attack. Very chimey and dynamic.
4) Thick Stage: Adds an additional 12AX7 tube stage that is voiced for more complex, thicker distortion.

And of course these all work together without reducing the effect of the others. It feels quite different than 'normal' high gain, since it really gets louder too when you really strike the strings harder, so it cuts through better when you want it to.

We're shooting for $2000 retail, so that should give you a pretty good idea what the typical street price would be. This amp gives you a lot of control over the tone/feel, but it's STILL easy to get a good sound(my biggest pet peave).

James B


I hope they're not made in China for that price.

[simplyjonny]

As far as I know, all Kustom amps are made in Ohio.

[PurpleStain]

As far as I know, all Kustom amps are made in Ohio.

They weren't in the 90's and early 2000's. The TRT 50, 100's tube amplifiers and the TRB bass amplifiers were made in china. Pretty sure all their solid state stuff is made there still.

[AmpTweaker]

They weren't in the 90's and early 2000's. The TRT 50, 100's tube amplifiers and the TRB bass amplifiers were made in china. Pretty sure all their solid state stuff is made there still.

Just like virtually every other manufacturer of competitive solid state guitar amps, Kustom does make all of our solid state amps in China.....however, the important difference is that this factory makes ONLY Kustom product and is not simply a job shop like most of our competitors use.

In fact, this relationship came about AFTER the time period you spoke of, and the result is a renewed level of quality and consistency that rivals many US manufacturers.....this has been a top priority of mine since I came to Kustom in 2004.

Back to the original question of the Double Crosses origin, if you look on the back of our Coupe and Double Cross models you'll see they are "Made in the USA with US and Imported Parts". By using some of our own Chinese manufacturing where appropriate for some tooled items such as handles, or labor intensive parts such as metal chassis....and the electronic assembly, transformers, tubes, burn-in, US-made cabinetry, US-made Eminence speakers, US-made Accutronics reverb pans, are all made and/or installed right here in Cincinnati....we're able to deliver some boutique quality product at prices comparable to other companies' production-line amps. In fact there are a handful of Chinese or Mexican made competitor amps that cost more than our US made amps.......

I am glad to see that issues like this are important to you consumers out there, and I can promise that I'm doing everything possible to make sure that any amp I am involved with can live up to your standards....no matter where we make it.....because they also have to meet mine. I have a lot of previous experience with designs like this and I've even 'upped the ante' by making sure that these amps are 'curved' against a standard. That way I can make sure that the amp you get sounds just like the one I tweaked.

James B

[PurpleStain]

Just like virtually every other manufacturer of competitive solid state guitar amps, Kustom does make all of our solid state amps in China.....however, the important difference is that this factory makes ONLY Kustom product and is not simply a job shop like most of our competitors use.

In fact, this relationship came about AFTER the time period you spoke of, and the result is a renewed level of quality and consistency that rivals many US manufacturers.....this has been a top priority of mine since I came to Kustom in 2004.

Back to the original question of the Double Crosses origin, if you look on the back of our Coupe and Double Cross models you'll see they are "Made in the USA with US and Imported Parts". By using some of our own Chinese manufacturing where appropriate for some tooled items such as handles, or labor intensive parts such as metal chassis....and the electronic assembly, transformers, tubes, burn-in, US-made cabinetry, US-made Eminence speakers, US-made Accutronics reverb pans, are all made and/or installed right here in Cincinnati....we're able to deliver some boutique quality product at prices comparable to other companies' production-line amps. In fact there are a handful of Chinese or Mexican made competitor amps that cost more than our US made amps.......

I am glad to see that issues like this are important to you consumers out there, and I can promise that I'm doing everything possible to make sure that any amp I am involved with can live up to your standards....no matter where we make it.....because they also have to meet mine. I have a lot of previous experience with designs like this and I've even 'upped the ante' by making sure that these amps are 'curved' against a standard. That way I can make sure that the amp you get sounds just like the one I tweaked.

James B


That sounds good to me. I'm not against chinese made products, I just expect them to carry at least some of the savings to me when things are made in china. I've got the all Chinese made Vox custom classic, and i've been perfectly happy with it. If these coupes and double crosses are assembled here, that's even better. In the end, the sound is what I care about, but I'd also prefer not to be gouged on price. That being said, the double cross appears to be reasonably priced. :thu:

[iroc]

Thanks for posting here mr brown, I can't wait to try your amp. I love it's features, it seems really versatile and well... cool. Thanks again:thu: