CAKEWALK SONAR 7 - NOW WITH CONCLUSIONS!

[Anderton]

We did Pro Reviews of Sonar 5 and Sonar 6, and they were some of the better received ones we've done. And now we have Sonar 7, and as a habitual Sonar user, I'm definitely looking forward to this.

Pro Reviews tend to take their own course, because really, I have no idea what kind of questions people are going to ask, what problems I'll run into, and what gems lie undiscovered just beneath the surface. The Sonar 6 one was very different, as it was really more of a tutorial than a revew. The program had two giant new features - AudioSnap and ACT - and there was a lot of confusion about them. The Pro Review was a perfect place to explain how these work, with audio examples and lots of graphics.

You've probably heard that Sonar 7 is not the same kind of blockbuster release as Sonar 6, and in many ways, I'd agree. However, there are lots of reasons to update a program - not all of them spectacular. For example, even though AudioSnap and ACT got the attention for Sonar 6, it was the customization options that have had the most profound effect on my workflow, because they affect every part of the program.

This won't be a long intro, because I'm getting a late start due to trying to wrap my head around the best plan of action for this review. Here's the order in which I plan to cover topics, subject of course to any course corrections you contribute:

1. MIDI enhancements. If you work with MIDI, this is a totally cool and very important aspect of the update. For many, this willjustify the cost of the upgrade.

2. Step sequencer. This is another update that, like MIDI, will be a godsend to some while others won't care. Step sequencing is something that Sonar has never done, and now, it's doing it very well. We'll get into what this new module can do, but also, give some ideas on how to use step sequencing.

3. The new processors. These, and some other enhancements, put Sonar into the near-mastering tool class. The LP series EQ and compressor seem ideal for bus processing - we'll find out.

4. The new instruments. We already did a Rapture Pro Review (where by the end, I was totally sold on the thing and still am), but this will give us a chance to go over the Z3TZ+, Dimension, DropZone, etc.

5. Miscellaneous goodies. We'll go through the various additions, and rate them as to usefulness.

6. The publisher module. This is very intriguing, given the meteoric rise of digital distribution.

7. Sonar 7 meets Vista! Once we have this sorted yet, I'm going to take the plunge and install the 64-bit version with 64-bit Vista, and see what happens. This will be interesting indeed.

Now, the only real problem is that AES falls right in the middle of this, which means my actitivity is non-existent while at the show, and when I return, a lot of my "Harmony Central" time goes toward doing videos from the show. I hope to get the MIDI enhancements section wrapped up before I go, as that's a lot to take in anyway.

On with the review!

[flatfinger]

Geeze,
Why do all the developers release simultainiously? (stupid trade shows), reaper 2.0(user beta) and samp 10 also out just recently. How is a DAW Drunk supposed to inbibe it all in a single chug?? ( I'll take the Buss home!). Don't forget to investigate the side chain options in sonar!! The new Midi stuff could be the thing that takes me into the Cake- walking world!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[johndefiore]

Wow, great news that you're starting this review already, Craig. I've been playing with S7PE for the last two days and I think it's a significant upgrade. The external delay compensation plug, the MIDI workflow improvements, the new instruments and plugs, pitch to MIDI in V-Vocal, and sidechaining are all great new features. It seems very stable so far too.

Thanks,

John

[Hasting's Point]

Good luck with the review

Much Love,

Hasting's Point

[digital lofi]

In the day or so I've spent with it, I'm pretty stoked. Not "Holy Crap" stoked, like with Audio Snap, but some of the best things are hidden beneath the hood. Step Sequencer, works as advertised and integrates perfectly. Controller lanes, awesome. But there are a couple CPU switches. MIDI activity meters, translucent peak markers. I'm still getting the hang of configuring the Smart MIDI tool, and the MIDI magnifier seems to take a little while to get the hang of but they're very cool.

For those curious but don't have the manual and the read me, I culled a list of additional improvements, additions and fixes. It's an impressive list.

Digital LoFi: Sonar 7: Day 2. (http://www.digitallofi.com/words/2007/09/21/sonar-7-day-2/)

In some ways this an update for the power user. A lot more control over the operations of the program. Of course new users will get the benefit and all the other great features Cake have been integrating into the program for years.

[Anderton]

Yes - sidechaining and external hardware compensation. That goes on the to-do list as well :)

The thing about the MIDI magnifier is that at first, it seems like a bit of a moving target, like trying to get something into the OS X trash can. What's important to remember is to look "through" the magnification because the cursor will be at the point on the track where you want to make the modification.

Reading that over, it doesn't seem to make much sense...I'm taking the screen shots for the MIDI stuff now, it might get too late to post the text tonight but it will be up soon.

[Alndln2]

Yes - sidechaining and external hardware compensation. That goes on the to-do list as well :)
:thu:

[digital lofi]

By the by, that list is culled the Sonar forums, no special insider info or transcribing from the readme.txt. But I want to keep accumulating great under/undocumented features - for my own selfish reasons - you know, to use 'em. So I'm looking forward to you getting your hands mucky with this one Craig. You won't mind if I pull a few for my big list?

[p750souza]

3. The new processors. These, and some other enhancements, put Sonar into the near-mastering tool class. The LP series EQ and compressor seem ideal for bus processing - we'll find out.



:poke:Definitely I think that Sonar must improove to the Bob Katz K System -20, -18, -14... metering, that is pretty helpfull on mastering process.

[madFloyd]

I'm really looking forward to checking out this new release. I have higher hopes than last release (which I was really, really looking forward to at the time but never got AudioSnap or ACT to work).

[RadiationNation]

Step Sequencer :love:

I've always wished Sonar would put in some kind of step sequencer. This is gonna make my life so much easier. :rawk:

[Anderton]

I'm really looking forward to checking out this new release. I have higher hopes than last release (which I was really, really looking forward to at the time but never got AudioSnap or ACT to work).

That's really a shame, because they're great features and they DO work. First of all, you really need to be at 6.2 if you aren't already. Second, in the Pro Review for Sonar 6, I did a couple tutorials on AudioSnap and ACT that people found very helpful. Check them out, both features really are cool once you get them going. (For what it's worth, it took me a while to wrap my head around both of those, and it also took Cakewalk a couple point releases to trim things up as well.)

[AW - Cakewalk]

Yes - sidechaining and external hardware compensation. That goes on the to-do list as well :)

The thing about the MIDI magnifier is that at first, it seems like a bit of a moving target, like trying to get something into the OS X trash can. What's important to remember is to look "through" the magnification because the cursor will be at the point on the track where you want to make the modification.

Reading that over, it doesn't seem to make much sense...I'm taking the screen shots for the MIDI stuff now, it might get too late to post the text tonight but it will be up soon.

Two comments from me that might help:


The magnifier/microscope does have some customization options (Options | PRV Tool Configuration) to suit each person's style.
Here's an alternative use: in that same options dialog, you can set the microscope note height threshold to its maximum (20), so that the microscope will likely be on all the time. Then, assign a key binding to "Microscope Mode", so that you can turn it on and off at will with your own key binding, instead of having SONAR do it automatically.

[Anderton]

When Sonar introduced the in-track piano roll view for MIDI tracks in Track View, I saw it mostly as a way to have a sense of what was going on with the MIDI tracks. Even though you could edit it by resizing the track and such, I pretty much always found it easier to just go to the standard piano roll window to do any serious editing.

Sonar's MIDI Microscope feature is designed to overcome this limitation to some extent. But before you do anything, I recommend making sure this is on your Track View toolbar (the toolbar doesn't default to having it, near as I can tell). To do this, refer to the first attached image and:

1. Right-click on the PRV Mode button.
2. Select Customize.
3. When the Customize Toolbar: Track View window appears, click on Microscope Mode.
4. Click on Add.
5. Once it’s added, the button appears in the right-hand pane. Drag it where you want on the toolbar by dragging it within the right pane (I parked it between the PRV Mode button and a separator). Then, click on close
6. Done! Now you can easily toggle Microscope mode on and off.

The second attached image shows Microscope mode in action. Note how it saw that there's a mistake toward the middle: Two notes a half-step apart hit at the same place. You can now use your standard MIDI tools to move, erase, lengthen, etc.; I just clicked on the note and hit Delete. Without the microscope, the extra note was almost impossible to see.

The Microscope also works in the Piano Roll window. Even during the short time I've been using Sonar 7, it seems that the best option with the inline track view is to use the Microscope as a quick way to "proof" a track. If you want to do detailed editing, I still find it better to go to the Piano roll. But the big difference here is that you don't have to spend a lot of time zooming; the magnifier will do most of the heavy lifting for you if you want to "zoom in" without actually having to zoom in.

It does take a bit to get the hang of using the microscope. You need to remember that the pencil (or whatever tool you're using) is "pointing through" the microscope to the track below. Also, if the track is zoomed out too far, it becomes difficult to know exactly where you're pointing.

But once you've established a good "default" zoom for MIDI tracks that is also microscope-friendly, you'll find this feature very useful - especially for "proofing" tracks, where you want to see, for example, if there are ghost notes or other issues possibly gumming up the works.

[Anderton]

Great tip, Alex! That's one better than having it on the toolbar. To do this, go Options > Key Bindings, the for Type of Keys, click on Computer so you can choose a keyboard command. Then in the Bind Context drop-down menu, choose Track View. From there, scroll down to select Microscope Mode, then select the desired key binding.

See the attached image for details.

[Anderton]

Sonar has always had three main MIDI tools you could select with key commands: Select, Draw, and Erase. But Sonar 7 beefs up these three tools so you can add functions by using modifier keys (Ctrl, Shift, and Alt, singly or in combination) and mouse buttons (Left, Middle, Right).

I still have my key bindings set up so S = Select, D = Draw, and E = Erase. But now, each one calls up a tool set, not individual tools.

The way you configure each tool is by going Options > PRV Tool Configuration (see first attached image). Under Preset, you can save your own or call up tool configurations that are equivalent to those used in Cubase, Digital Performer, or Logic Pro 7.

As one example of custom configuration, with the select tool, clicking on the left mouse button lets me select notes. So, wouldn't it make sense (as that's the tool I use the most) to place some other common functions on there as well? The second attached image shows that I'm assigning Erase Sweep to the Select tool to be active if the Ctrl key is selected while the left mouse button is down.

But wouldn't it make more sense to assign that function to the Erase tool? Well, you can have overlap -- I have the same option assigned to the Erase tool, too. I also assigned the Glue tool to Shift-left click, thereby putting the three functions I use the most on the same tool. I'm still trying to think up a good candidate for the Alt key...

What's more, you can also invoke functions based on context. For example, with the Erase tool, I specified that if the cursor is over any part of the note itself, and I hold down Crtl, the cursor turns into the Scissors (split) tool. To my way of thinking, splitting belongs with the erase tool because you're "erasing" the connection between the notes you're splitting. That's just me, of course. I also spiffed up the Draw tool by adding in the option to draw (linear or free)...you get the idea.

So is this useful? Yes! With one hand on the mouse and one hand on the keyboard, you can really move fast around the piano roll editor (either window or in-line). The only suggestion I have is don't go nuts and assign a zillion things to the various tools. Make a few key configurations, live with those for a while until you've learned them (and made sure they fit your workflow), then move on to the next configurations. Remember, just because you can assign a bunch of tool options doesn't mean you have to use them all. Also, do check out the defaults before you stray too far from them; they may suit your needs "as is."

[Rabid]

My request for those of us that skip versions. Is there any software included in Sonar 6P that is not in 7P? Cakewalk has always been good about setting up install disks so that on a reinstall you can put in old versions and only install extras that are not included on newer versions. I just wonder if I am missing anything by not having the version 6P disks.

Edit: - to be more clear for all users so skip versions, if something was dropped in the transition from 6 to 7, in what version was it introduced? Example: The BlueMoon effects package (not a real package) was dropped in version 7P but can be installed if you have a version between 3P and 6P.

By the way, I'm glad you are an actual Cakewalk/Sonar user. It makes things easier being able to read tips here and in SoS from someone that really uses the product.

Robert

[rasputin1963]

re: SPE6:

ACT I haven't yet figured out.... it seems awfully abstruse to me at this point... and I spent a good three or four hours experimenting with it last night. I'm not 100% sure what the advantage is, ie., what it can do that I couldn't do another way just as easily.

But AudioSnap really is the best thing that's happened to DAW's in a long time... my mixes have never been tighter. It's great to Quantize to audio, as well as to simply have the freedom to slip audio slices back-and-forth in time very easily and intuitively.

[subtlearts]

My request for those of us that skip versions. Is there any software included in Sonar 6P that is not in 7P? ... I just wonder if I am missing anything by not having the version 6P disks.


Cakewalk have verified that there is nothing in 6PE that is not in 7PE. If I recall correctly that was also the case for the 5-6 upgrade - nothing dropped, only additions. Nice!

So you won't miss anything - but goodness me, you have a lot in store for you! Christmas is coming early!

[garrigus]

That's true. S7 has everything that S6 had and of course more.

Scott

--
Scott R. Garrigus - Author of Cakewalk, Sound Forge 6, 7/8 and SONAR 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 Power books.
** Get Sonar 6 Power & Sound Forge 8 Power - Today! **
http://www.garrigus.com/

Publisher of DigiFreq. Win a free Absynth 3 or Kontakt 2 DVD Tutorial and learn cool music technology tips and techniques by getting a FREE subscription to DigiFreq... over 20,000 readers can't be wrong! Go to:
http://www.digifreq.com/digifreq/

[Anderton]

While the Tool option and the Microscope are the big deal, there are quite a few other MIDI enhancements. The first attached image shows two things: MIDI note colorization based on velocity, and the ability to do multiple controller lanes. The notes shown in the piano roll go from a velocity of 10 to 127 in increments of ten. The colorization effect is relatively subtle, but if you find it distracting (which I really doubt would be an issue), you can turn it off in the CAKEWALK.INI file.

The second attached image shows how Cubase 4 handles colorizing. I find it more obvious, but there's a fundamental difference between the way the two programs handle this process. Sonar does colorization based on a variation of the clip color, whereas Cubase applies the same colorization to any track, regardless of clip color. So, while I feel Cubase does a more obvious job on individual tracks, with Sonar it's easier to parse which track you're editing...six of one, half dozen of the other.

TIP: Speaking of colors, here's a tip for checking out different color configurations. Go Options > Colors, and click on the Presets drop-down menu "downward triangle" but don't select anything. Use your computer keyboard's Up/Down arrows to step through the different presets, and observe the effect this has on your project.

The Multiple Controller lane concept should be pretty obvious, as just about every other program has it...this qualifies as a "catch-up" update, but it's welcome nonetheless. It's obvious to use: Click on the little + sign in the lower left of a controller lane, and it opens up another lane. Click on the - sign to hide a lane.

[Anderton]

Sonar now has specific tools for split (scissors tool), glue notes (glue tube), and mute.

Split works the same way as placing the cursor on a clip and typing S, but it can also be assigned as a mouse tool (as can the other new tools). Glue (which of course applies only to notes of the same pitch) is something I've been wanting for a while, and I'm glad it's here. When you choose the Glue tool, you just drag it over the notes you want to glue and they become one note. However, unlike Mute (described next) this works only on notes: Gluing controller events together produces a "fatal error" screen, and Sonar crashes after asking you if you want to save your work before it goes bye-bye.

TIP: If glue notes with different velocities, whichever one you drag over first in the gluing process sets the velocity for the final, glued note.

The Mute tool can apply to individual events, and when muted, an event not only plays back but doesn't register on the meters, either. You can use this on events as well, which is helpful. Personally, I don't find the Mute tool as useful as the other two, but as I work more with Sonar 7 I'll see if it gets more use. One more mute feature: Sonar 7 now lets you hide the events in muted clips; previously, muted events would still show, which could be confusing. However, you can still use this protocol if you prefer.

[Anderton]

re: SPE6:

ACT I haven't yet figured out.... it seems awfully abstruse to me at this point... and I spent a good three or four hours experimenting with it last night. I'm not 100% sure what the advantage is, ie., what it can do that I couldn't do another way just as easily.

Did you check out the tutorials on ACT in the Sonar 6 Pro Review? You might find them helpful. Also, I think there's info on the Cake site as well.

What you can do with it that you can't do easily with other means (except something like Kore) is that you can have one control surface and it affects whatever has the focus. I think those who have problems with ACT try to do too much with it. For example, if you just assign ONE fader or knob to resonance, you can use it to control filter resonance in a soft synth, feedback in a delay signal processor, or bandpass in a bandpass filter. If you try to assign a zillion parameters to ACT and remember all of them as you work with a control surface, you brain will explode.

The other way I use ACT is to map onscreen controls in a way that seems obvious to me. For example, with "rack-looking" effects, the controls typically go in a line from left to right. So I assign those to the knobs on my hardware controller so they go from left to right on the control, and there's an easy correlation between the control surface in front of me and the knobs I see on-screen.

But you're not wrong not to use ACT. Not everyone needs it, but for those who are deep into control surfaces, it can be very helpful.

[Anderton]

That's true. S7 has everything that S6 had and of course more.

Scott

Welcome Scott! Great to have you stop by. If you feel like contributing your considerable expertise to the thread, consider yourself invited.

[Anderton]

Another one of those "It's about time, thanks!" features is the ability to have controller data travel with notes. You could do this with Sonar before, but only if you moved a clip in Track View (anything in the clip moved). But now in Piano Roll view, if you choose "Select Controllers within Note Duration" and move a note(s), any controller events that fall during the note duration move with the note. This is very helpful, because a lot of times I'll have (for example) pitch bend working perfectly with a note. Before, if I wanted to move just that note, unless I isolated it into a clip in Track View the pitch had to be cut and pasted separately, and there was no guarantee I'd paste it in exactly the right place. About the only thing you have to watch out for with this feature is if you have a controller value before the note designed to affect that note; you can either move it under the note, or add a "bogus" note above the controller that you remove after completing the move.

I also really like the drag-quantize option because I'm a huge fan of quantization strength, and this option lets you adjust quantization strength without having to open up the quantization menu.

The way it works is you just select a group of notes, click on one of them (default is with the middle mouse button, using the select tool) and drag up to move the notes closer to the specified quantize value, and down to move them further away. Note that if a selected note is already quantized, it won't move; this function affects only notes that are not on a quantization boundary.

Sonar 7 adds a lot of other, more subtle features. So that we can move on to other things, I'll just give a quickie description...if anyone has questions or wants more elaboration, just holler.

Adjust velocity with changing the controller type. Sonar 7 now considers velocity to be a data type separate from controllers. So if you're editing a controller and want to make a quick velocity adjustment, you can do so without having the current Edit Type switch to Velocity: Just adjust the tail and when you stop adjusting, the velocity tail goes away and all you'll see displayed is the particular controller.

Show velocity only for selected notes. Now when you have a bunch of stacked notes, you can easily adjust velocity for individual notes by choosing "Show Velocity on Select Notes." I've been hassling Cakewalk for so long about this ("Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet?") they may have put this in just to shut me up :) The first attached image shows the option being selected, as well as one selected note from a chord and its associated velocity tail.

Selection sensitive velocity editing. This is a somewhat related feature in that if you're drawing velocities, you can choose to affect only selected notes.

Note/controller or controller velocity painting, freehand or linear. These functions can now be assigned to your programmable mouse PRV tool options. It's very handy to just hold down, say, a control key and then be able to draw freehand controllers with your mouse.

Erase tool change. With previous versions of Sonar, if you erased a note, it was gone. With Sonar 7, erasing a note selects it for erasing, and it changes color (see second attached image). When you release the mouse note, they actually become erased. This doesn't mean you can change your mind by, for example, moving back over an erased note; but you can see all the notes you plan to erase before they actually go away, which can be helpful sometimes.

Easier editing of overlapping notes. If notes overlaps, Sonar 7 will apply some "intelligence" in determining which is the one you want to edit. For example, if the cursor is hovering over a note thats overlapped by another note and you see the trim end tool, when you click on the note the hidden end will be revealed, and when you trim, this visible end is what will be trimmed.

Finally, the Velocity Audition functions, while unchanged, are now easier to access as they've been moved to the PRV Tool Configuration dialog.

[Anderton]

Yup, Sonar now has MIDI playback meters. They look just like the audio meters, with the only exception being that the audio meter clipping indicator is replaced by a MIDI activity indicator (which is the same color as the meter), and the main meter indicates the highest note velocity being played back. The separation of MIDI activity and note velocity is very useful, as you can see if a track has, for example, mod wheel data happening even if there aren't any notes.

That pretty much wraps up the MIDI editing options. The only remaining MIDI-related "biggies" are pitch-to-MIDI conversion in V-Vocal, and the Step Sequencer, which we'll get into next.

[garrigus]

Welcome Scott! Great to have you stop by. If you feel like contributing your considerable expertise to the thread, consider yourself invited.

Thanks, Craig! Will do...

I'm not sure if you covered them in your last review, but Cakewalk added some other features during the incremental version 6 updates. These include MIDI Input Quantize, X-Ray Windows, the Bit Meter plug-in, Track View Time Display, Friendly MIDI Hardware Port Names, etc.

You might want to cover those here as well if you didn't before...

Best regards,
Scott

--
Scott R. Garrigus - Author of Cakewalk, Sound Forge 6, 7/8 and SONAR 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 Power books.
** Get Sonar 6 Power & Sound Forge 8 Power - Today! **
http://www.garrigus.com/

Publisher of DigiFreq. Win a free Absynth 3 or Kontakt 2 DVD Tutorial and learn cool music technology tips and techniques by getting a FREE subscription to DigiFreq... over 20,000 readers can't be wrong! Go to:
http://www.digifreq.com/digifreq/

[AW - Cakewalk]

The Multiple Controller lane concept should be pretty obvious, as just about every other program has it...this qualifies as a "catch-up" update, but it's welcome nonetheless. It's obvious to use: Click on the little + sign in the lower left of a controller lane, and it opens up another lane. Click on the - sign to hide a lane.
SONAR 7, however, still allows you to assign multiple controllers to the same lane. Other apps force one controller per lane. So, we give you the best of both. :)

[flatfinger]

Thanks, Craig! Will do...

I'm not sure if you covered them in your last review, but Cakewalk added some other features during the incremental version 6 updates. These include MIDI Input Quantize, X-Ray Windows, the Bit Meter plug-in, Track View Time Display, Friendly MIDI Hardware Port Names, etc.

You might want to cover those here as well if you didn't before...

Best regards,
Scott

--
Scott R. Garrigus - Author of Cakewalk, Sound Forge 6, 7/8 and SONAR 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 Power books.
** Get Sonar 6 Power & Sound Forge 8 Power - Today! **
http://www.garrigus.com/

Publisher of DigiFreq. Win a free Absynth 3 or Kontakt 2 DVD Tutorial and learn cool music technology tips and techniques by getting a FREE subscription to DigiFreq... over 20,000 readers can't be wrong! Go to:
http://www.digifreq.com/digifreq/



Dude ,
You quit wasting time on the web and get the version 7 guide out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Hurry!!

(kidding):poke:

[Olly Oddball]

Looking forward to that Craig - you music God. Could you please post your computer spec.

xx
Olly

[garrigus]

Dude ,
You quit wasting time on the web and get the version 7 guide out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Hurry!!

(kidding):poke:

Hey Flatfinger,

Ha! Yeah man, I'm workin' on it. It'll be out around mid-November. You can be sure I'll be spreadin' the word as soon as the book is ready. Actually, maybe sooner... It should be up on Amazon for pre-order very soon.

Thanks!
Scott

--
Scott R. Garrigus - Author of Cakewalk, Sound Forge 6, 7/8 and SONAR 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 Power books.
** Get Sonar 6 Power & Sound Forge 8 Power - Today! **
http://www.garrigus.com/

Publisher of DigiFreq. Win a free Absynth 3 or Kontakt 2 DVD Tutorial and learn cool music technology tips and techniques by getting a FREE subscription to DigiFreq... over 20,000 readers can't be wrong! Go to:
http://www.digifreq.com/digifreq/

[tradivoro1]

Also, can someone talk about keying and ducking with compressors and gates. I can't for hte life of me figure out how to do this in previous versions of Sonar, and I"m just wondering if it's very easy to do it in version 7.

[garrigus]

Yes, this is a new feature in Sonar 7. It is called side-chaining and it is now built-into Sonar. Previous versions did not have this ability.

Scott

--
Scott R. Garrigus - Author of Cakewalk, Sound Forge 6, 7/8 and SONAR 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 Power books.
** Get Sonar 6 Power & Sound Forge 8 Power - Today! **
http://www.garrigus.com/

Publisher of DigiFreq. Win a free Absynth 3 or Kontakt 2 DVD Tutorial and learn cool music technology tips and techniques by getting a FREE subscription to DigiFreq... over 20,000 readers can't be wrong! Go to:
http://www.digifreq.com/digifreq/

[Leonardus]

As long as we're still on midi..

There is a midi feature buried deep within Sonar 7 called Pattern Brush. It's for creating drum tracks. Craig, would you look at this and comment? It seems simple enough, but I could not conceive a way to use Pattern Brush effectively. I know Pattern Brush is dated; it was introduced in Sonar 2. Still, I'd love for you to have a go at it, just to see how you would break it down and put it to use.
Perhaps more interesting than Pattern Brush itself is seeing how Craig Anderton would put Pattern Brush to work. This, I'd love to see! :)
Craig, will you please give it a go? Thank you. Leonard

[AW - Cakewalk]

Sonar now has specific tools for split (scissors tool), glue notes (glue tube), and mute.

Split works the same way as placing the cursor on a clip and typing S, but it can also be assigned as a mouse tool (as can the other new tools). Glue (which of course applies only to notes of the same pitch) is something I've been wanting for a while, and I'm glad it's here. When you choose the Glue tool, you just drag it over the notes you want to glue and they become one note. However, unlike Mute (described next) this works only on notes: Gluing controller events together produces a "fatal error" screen, and Sonar crashes after asking you if you want to save your work before it goes bye-bye.
Oops! We'll try to fix that in the first patch.

[garrigus]

A quick Pattern Brush primer...

1) Assign a Drum Map to your MIDI track and open that track in the Piano Roll View.
2) Choose the Pattern Brush tool.
3) Click the down arrow next to the tool and activate the following options: Use Pattern Velocities and Use Pattern Polyphony. Using these options will make your 'painted' parts conform exactly to the data in the pattern.
4) Click the down arrow again and choose a pattern from the list.

Now just click/hold the left mouse button (starting at the point you want the pattern to be created) and drag to the right. Also, you don't need to line up your mouse with a particular drum instrument because Sonar will automatically fill in the notes with the appropriate instrumentation (as per the previous activated options and the pattern you selected).

The patterns included with Sonar conform to the General MIDI standard so you can use any GM synth (that includes drum kits) to generate sound (like the Cakewalk TTS-1 or Session Drummer 2).

Scott

--
Scott R. Garrigus - Author of Cakewalk, Sound Forge 6, 7/8 and SONAR 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 Power books.
** Get Sonar 6 Power & Sound Forge 8 Power - Today! **
http://www.garrigus.com/

Publisher of DigiFreq. Win a free Absynth 3 or Kontakt 2 DVD Tutorial and learn cool music technology tips and techniques by getting a FREE subscription to DigiFreq... over 20,000 readers can't be wrong! Go to:
http://www.digifreq.com/digifreq/

[Anderton]

Thanks Scott! My main use fot the pattern brush has been to create 16th-note high-hat patterns for techno tunes. I draw the 16th notes at a relatively low velocity, then use the filter to selectively boost velocity for all notes that hit on the beat. Then I use the filter again to boost velocity for all notes that hit on the beginning of a measure. Sometimes I'll randomize VERY slightly the start time of those notes that don't land on a beat...adds a little more interest.

[Anderton]

Oops! We'll try to fix that in the first patch.

One of my favorite Pro Review moments was finding a bug in Sonar 5, and you fixing it before the review was over! Makes me feel useful :)

[BuleriaChk]

Lots more flexibility, but you can't call up the erase simply by moving the draw button over the note (auto erase) in context as in SP6. There is an "auto sweep", but it is no accurate for individual notes, unless there is something I'm missing in the PRV Tool Configuration.....

I much prefer that; no big deal, but for quick correction of mistakes, that was the fastest, IMO.....

Chuck


Sonar has always had three main MIDI tools you could select with key commands: Select, Draw, and Erase. But Sonar 7 beefs up these three tools so you can add functions by using modifier keys (Ctrl, Shift, and Alt, singly or in combination) and mouse buttons (Left, Middle, Right).

[Leonardus]

Thanks Scott! ..then use the filter to selectively boost velocity for all notes that hit on the beat. Then I use the filter again to boost velocity for all notes that hit on the beginning of a measure..

Thank you, Scott. I'm looking forward to Sonar 7 Power. :)

Craig-Thank you for showing how Pattern Brush can be effectively used. Your detailed description on how you go about subtly breaking up static rhythm is particularly useful. Thank you. Leonard

Aha!! So that's what you can do with midi filters! Man, that filter interface has always looked stiff and foreboding. But, now that I have a better understanding..

[garrigus]

Thank you, Scott. I'm looking forward to Sonar 7 Power. :)

Aha!! So that's what you can do with midi filters! Man, that filter interface has always looked stiff and foreboding. But, now that I have a better understanding..

Thanks, Leonard! I'm workin' on it. :)

If you have one of my previous books... for example Sonar 6 Power... check out pages 95 to 98 and 233 to 235 for info on the select filter and the Interpolate function.

Scott

--
Scott R. Garrigus - Author of Cakewalk, Sound Forge 6, 7/8 and SONAR 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 Power books.
** Get Sonar 6 Power & Sound Forge 8 Power - Today! **
http://www.garrigus.com/

Publisher of DigiFreq. Win a free Absynth 3 or Kontakt 2 DVD Tutorial and learn cool music technology tips and techniques by getting a FREE subscription to DigiFreq... over 20,000 readers can't be wrong! Go to:
http://www.digifreq.com/digifreq/

[AW - Cakewalk]

One of my favorite Pro Review moments was finding a bug in Sonar 5, and you fixing it before the review was over! Makes me feel useful :)

Haha, excellent, I'm up for a repeat. :)

[Anderton]

Hey Alex - another heads-up - if I try to insert Steinberg Hypersonic as a soft synth using the insert > soft synths menu, it crashes Sonar. If I insert it by right-clicking in the effects bin and choosing Hypersonic, it loads okay.

[digital lofi]

Probably not the place, but this is one bug I'm in the middle of crushing - been around since Sonar6. Names missing from Plugin Menus!:mad:

I'm not sure when it began to rear it's ugly head, but sometime last year certain VST plugins just wouldn't show up in any Plugin Manager menu, no matter what I did. I first noticed with microTonic, a plug I use a lot. I can see it in the list of installed VSTs, and it's in the menu editor. But where it counts it just doesn't show up. Oatmeal & V-Station are two others I know of off the top of my head that have gone MIA. I can get to some through track templates (yea for remembering to create them), but I can't figure out how to get V-Station into a Sonar Project.

I was hoping 7 would be the magic number and it would all be good. Nope.

In frustration, I ripped all my versions of Sonar off the computer, along with a whole lot of old software. Old Project 5. Gone. I didn't touch my plugins too much, including Dimension Pro and Rapture, but all those versions of Sonar I had going back to version 2 - outta there. I washed the registry several times with two different registry cleaners, including by hand. I was careful but thorough. But no luck.

So today I'm thinking of strategies to clean out my plugin folder. Granted, there's a lot of detritus in there. I'm pretty good at deleting what I don't want, but there's freebies I thought were cool, mag-ware I might have used once or twice, some of the lesser SynthEdit creations. I'm going to whittle it down to just the commercial plugins and the free/donation-ware I know works and use a lot. I guess I'll create a 2nd vst foler that sits right next to the current where I'll move most of this stuff, so I can still use it in other programs; perhaps bring it into Sonar with eXT as a plugin. I also think I'm going to toss any overall folder structure ("c:\program files\audio_plugins\instruments\samplers\..") and go with just splitting them up by developer and project ("c:\program files\audio_plugins\u-he\zebra2\..").

Anyway, I just needed to rant. If anyone knows where exactly in the registry I could look to see what's not show up that would be great.

[garrigus]

Hey Alex - another heads-up - if I try to insert Steinberg Hypersonic as a soft synth using the insert > soft synths menu, it crashes Sonar. If I insert it by right-clicking in the effects bin and choosing Hypersonic, it loads okay.

I heard about someone having the same problem with Session Drummer 2 over on the DigiFreq Forums (http://www.digifreq.com/digifreq/discuss/), but I haven't experienced it myself. Bugs are weird little critters, aren't they? :)

Scott

--
Scott R. Garrigus - Author of Cakewalk, Sound Forge 6, 7/8 and SONAR 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 Power books.
** Get Sonar 6 Power & Sound Forge 8 Power - Today! **
http://www.garrigus.com/

Publisher of DigiFreq. Win a free Absynth 3 or Kontakt 2 DVD Tutorial and learn cool music technology tips and techniques by getting a FREE subscription to DigiFreq... over 20,000 readers can't be wrong! Go to:
http://www.digifreq.com/digifreq/

[photon]

:)

[BuleriaChk]

FWIW, Amplitube 2 still crashes (for me) as a VST in Sonar 7 (for me), as it does in Live 6 - after about 5 seconds. Every other plugin I have is rock solid (including Guitar Rig 2 and Revalver MkII). I can only get AT2 to run if I use the Revalver MkII as a VST wrapper - it then will run all day and night).

The problem obviously is with IKMultimedia's VST implementation, but just though I'd update vis a vis Sonar 7. I have done extensive research into buffers, drivers, etc., but IK doesn not have good stability reputation.

Pity, because I think AT2 has the best sims available (although GR2 and Revalver are very, very close indeed.)

Best Regards,

Chuck

[digital lofi]

Just following up my post.

I did a thorough cleaning of my plugin folder, pulling everything that wasn't commercial or a plugin I use frequently. I created a 2nd audio_plugin folder in which to dump everything, so I could still experiment and have access to it through eXT or other hosts, but my Sonar 7 install would be clean. I simplified the directory structure. Then I went into the registry and cleaned out a lot of registry entries, some of which probably dated back to when I was using the fxpansion VST wrapper!:eek: A lot of crap buried down in the windows system registry .

So now my Sonar 7 is a lean, mean plugin machine.:thu:

I'm not a big advocate of moderation when it comes to plugins - whatever you can afford, why not? - but there is something both cathartic and useful in really simplifying your plugin structure.

[Anderton]

FWIW, Amplitube 2 still crashes (for me) as a VST in Sonar 7.

I'm sorry to hear that, it works fine in Sonar 7 at this end using AMD X2, as well as in Sonar 6 on my laptop using Intel. You do have the latest AT2 update, right? And you instantiate it as a signal processor, not a soft synth?

Consider re-installing it just in case it got corrupted. I used to have problems with AT2 but not since downloading the latest version.

[Anderton]

This one threw me a little bit at first. Is it an instrument? A track? A pattern generator where you drag MIDI files into the Track View? A MIDI effect? The answer is none of the above: It generates a step sequencer clip on a MIDI track.

Like other step sequencers (see the attached image), this one has a matrix, with horizontal rows representing a particular note and vertical columns representing a particular beat or sub-division thereof. You click at the junction of a row and column when you want to drop a particular note (or drum hit, or whatever) at a particular time. As step sequencers are often used with drums, it's not surprising that this one integrates with Sonar's drum map feature.

The step sequencer has a seemingly unlimited number of rows (after inserting 130 of them, I lost patience and figured that's enough!). You can mute and solo individual rows, and set a velocity offset or multiply all velocities by a constant. To change this, you click and drag up and down on the number, or type in a value.

Although the screen shot shows only four beats to save space, the sequence can be up to 64 beats long, with up to 16 steps per beat. So not only can you have step sequences, but they can be pretty long and have some pretty fast notes chugging along. This to me is the most important Step Sequencer feature; you're not limited to, say, 4 beats of 16th notes.

There are controls for Articulation, Swing, and Portamento (with an associated on-off switch; of course, the instrument you're controlling needs to support portamento for this to matter). A Mode switch chooses between Poly (being able to enter several notes in the same column and Mono (only one note per column is allowed).

I loaded up Session Drummer 2, and all seemed well at first. But while the sequencer was playing, clicking around too fast on the different tracks to audition the drum sounds caused Sonar to freeze. So I re-booted, and of course, wanted to see if I could make it happen again. It did, and more specifically, I found it happened if I double-clicked on the note name. This was repeatable, so I figured okay, I'll double-click on the note name to bring up the Drum Map Manager only while it's stopped until either I find out that a) there's a fix, or b) there's a problem with my particular system that needs to be tweaked.

Once I sorted that out, everything worked great so let's get to the rest of the features.

I was initially disappointed that when you dropped a note in place, it defaulted to a velocity value and it seemed you couldn't drag the numerical-you had to type it in. Turns out that you can change the value with your mouse scroll wheel, as well as use Shift as a "fine tuning" modifier. Cool! However, next rev, I'd like to see the velocity value darker; it doesn't show up that well against the background.

Another great feature is that you can tie notes together very easily: Just click between them, and hit enter. The series of notes plays as one note, using the first note's velocity.

The Step Sequencer also includes a controller strip along the bottom where you can do the same kind of controller manipulation as in Piano Roll view, which is definitely a most useful addition.

The final feature is a "Fit to quarter note" option, where you can take a four-beat clip and force it to fit into a specific number of quarter notes. This is kind of like "time-stretching" as the notes get stretched to fit into a larger number of quarter notes, and shrunk to fit into a smaller number. For example, if you have an 8-beat, 4/4 sequence and make it fit 16 quarter notes, the sequence plays back at half time.

So is it cool? Yes. I like that you can trigger playback independently of the transport by clicking the Play button on the Step Sequencer itself. I also like that if you make copies of Step Sequencer clips, editing one copy affects them all-unless you specify that one should be unlinked, at which point you can edit it independently.

You can convert an existing MIDI clip into a Step Sequencer clip simply by clicking on it and selecting "Convert MIDI Clip to Step Sequencer." This is useful if you create a drum part from hitting keys or using a controller, then decide you could work more efficiently if you were using the Step Sequencer.

And if it wasn't clear before, you can have as many Step Sequence clips going as you want, even opening up several Step Sequencer clips on a single track.

[Anderton]

One thing you can't do with the Step Sequencer is "lasso" a bunch of notes, then move them around-either to a different row, or different time within the same row. This could be very useful if you came up with a decent pattern with the Step Sequencer, but upon (for example) overdubbing additional parts, you decided you want to retain some of the Step Sequencer part but do a serious overhaul to the rest. Here's an easy way to do it:

1. Select the Step Sequencer clip and go Edit > Bounce to Clip. This converts the Step Sequencer clip into a standard MIDI clip.
2. Open the clip in the Piano Roll view, and edit away.
3. Close the Piano Roll view.
4. Right-click on the clip and select "Convert MIDI Clip(s) to Step Sequencer."
5. Now the Step Sequencer will reflect the edits you made.

The only thing that seems a bit odd is that when you convert back to a Step Sequence, the order of notes is reversed in the rows-low notes are on the top, high ones on the bottom. Then again, you can reorder them but I'd prefer if the notes stayed in the same places they were originally.

[BuleriaChk]

Hi, Craig,

Thanks much for your response; I've tried everything! (And it crashes in Live 6 also). Tried it again (loading as a sfx, not a soft synth) and it crashed again.)

I am on an Intel Dual Core E6700, Asus MB, etc. and everything else runs flawlessly. I am using ASIO, though come to think of it. I'll try WDM and see what happens.....

But it does run smoothly within Revalver, which certainly makes the VST implementation suspect, IMO....

Chuck


I'm sorry to hear that, it works fine in Sonar 7 at this end using AMD X2, as well as in Sonar 6 on my laptop using Intel. You do have the latest AT2 update, right? And you instantiate it as a signal processor, not a soft synth?

Consider re-installing it just in case it got corrupted. I used to have problems with AT2 but not since downloading the latest version.

[siguitar]

Hi Craig,

I was wondering if you use any of the new East West PLAY vst's and if so, can you talk about how well or poorly they work in Sonar 7? I have a couple of them and they are a bit touchy as it is...:lol: I suppose if there are others who've had experience with using these vst's in particular with S7, perhaps they can comment here or start a separate thread?


Thanks,

Andy

[Anderton]

Hi Craig,

I was wondering if you use any of the new East West PLAY vst's and if so, can you talk about how well or poorly they work in Sonar 7? I have a couple of them and they are a bit touchy as it is...:lol: I suppose if there are others who've had experience with using these vst's in particular with S7, perhaps they can comment here or start a separate thread?

There should be some coming here soon for review, but they're not here yet. But if anyone has any experience with these, please post about them here so that everything related using things with Sonar 7 is in one place.

[wwwill]

OK, a couple of questions about the Step Sequencer:

- Can each row send on different MIDI channels/ports? Sometimes I want a pattern to drive multiple kits on a multitimbral(sp) synth/sample. Sometimes I want to use specific sounds from different synths/samplers.

- Can I switch patterns? Am I only limited to having 1 pattern play per instance or are the "banks" of patterns? Can I switch patterns with MIDI keys from a controller?

- Can I record the MIDI output (in realtime)? Lots of times I build arrangements on the fly. Can I record a MIDI track (or multiple takes/tracks) in realtime (while switching patterns, see above)?

Right now I am using SonicBytes ERA as my step sequencer; but I am evaluating solutions for drum pattern/song creation. I was thinking about another (rewire) app like Guru, Fruity, Project5, Live, Reason, etc., I don't like the idea of getting another full fledge app; all I really need is a MIDI drum pattern tool.

If these things are possible I'll be really happy to upgrade; I have 4 Prod on my machine and 6 Prod upgrade never installed. This looks like a great upgrade anyway; sidechaining, z3ta/dimension le/rapture le, external signal processsing, and the linear phase/boost11(?) are probably worth it alone. Really impressive.

Oh and by the way. I really like the way community "insiders" like Anderton and Garrigus are present. Makes me feel really nice.

Well done all.

[garrigus]

1. Can each row send on different MIDI channels/ports?

Yes. The SS uses drum maps. Double-click the name of the row to bring up its properties and there you can assign a new channel and/or out port. You can also do it in the Drum Manager.

2. Can I switch patterns?

No. One pattern per instance. But you can have more than one SS clip (pattern) per track. Each new pattern gets its own SS view.

3. Can I record the MIDI output (in realtime)?

I'm not exactly sure what you mean here, but I'm thinking no, you can't do that with the SS view.

Scott

--
Scott R. Garrigus - Author of Cakewalk, Sound Forge 6, 7/8 and SONAR 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 Power books.
** Get Sonar 6 Power & Sound Forge 8 Power - Today! **
http://www.garrigus.com/

Publisher of DigiFreq. Win a free Absynth 3 or Kontakt 2 DVD Tutorial and learn cool music technology tips and techniques by getting a FREE subscription to DigiFreq... over 20,000 readers can't be wrong! Go to:
http://www.digifreq.com/digifreq/

[SF_Green]

Geeze,
Why do all the developers release simultainiously? (stupid trade shows), reaper 2.0(user beta) and samp 10 also out just recently. How is a DAW Drunk supposed to inbibe it all in a single chug?? ( I'll take the Buss home!). Don't forget to investigate the side chain options in sonar!! The new Midi stuff could be the thing that takes me into the Cake- walking world!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You forgot another huge one - I got the Reason 4 upgrade within days of my Sonar7PE upgrade. I guess I'll sleep when I'm dead! :freak:

[Anderton]

2. Can I switch patterns?

No. One pattern per instance. But you can have more than one SS clip (pattern) per track. Each new pattern gets its own SS view.

Scott's right, but there's another workaround: Save each pattern on its own MIDI track. Then you can mute/solo the tracks to change "presets."

3. Can I record the MIDI output (in realtime)?

I'm not exactly sure what you mean here, but I'm thinking no, you can't do that with the SS view.

I think he means Groove Agent-type capabilities, where you can mess with the sequencer and record the results while you make changes. I'm on the road so my test options are limited, but perhaps you send the output to a hardware MIDI out port, and loop it back to a MIDI in? Or use the Hubi's MIDI loopback or something?

[ChristopherMo]

Oops! We'll try to fix that in the first patch.

Although I can understand why it is not acceptable fro S7 to crash in these circumstances, what would be the practical use of gluing controller events? As they are essentially modal events, gluing them would not increase their effect, would it? The end result would presumably be like using the old "thin controllers" cal.

[ChristopherMo]

One thing you can't do with the Step Sequencer is "lasso" a bunch of notes, then move them around-either to a different row, or different time within the same row. This could be very useful if you came up with a decent pattern with the Step Sequencer, but upon (for example) overdubbing additional parts, you decided you want to retain some of the Step Sequencer part but do a serious overhaul to the rest. Here's an easy way to do it:

1. Select the Step Sequencer clip and go Edit > Bounce to Clip. This converts the Step Sequencer clip into a standard MIDI clip.
2. Open the clip in the Piano Roll view, and edit away.
3. Close the Piano Roll view.
4. Right-click on the clip and select "Convert MIDI Clip(s) to Step Sequencer."
5. Now the Step Sequencer will reflect the edits you made.

The only thing that seems a bit odd is that when you convert back to a Step Sequence, the order of notes is reversed in the rows-low notes are on the top, high ones on the bottom. Then again, you can reorder them but I'd prefer if the notes stayed in the same places they were originally.

Switching from a MIDI clip to a step sequencer clip seems to delete any CC events that are in the clip, which is unfortunate.

Also, apart from switching back and forth between step sequence clip and normal MIDI clip, is there anyway of transposing and/or re-basing the step sequencer's root note? For example, if I want to work in a different register, how can I shift all of the rows up, by, say, one octave? As far as I can see, the step sequencer does not recognise any relationship between rows, so each one has to be altered separately.

[garrigus]

Also, apart from switching back and forth between step sequence clip and normal MIDI clip, is there anyway of transposing and/or re-basing the step sequencer's root note? For example, if I want to work in a different register, how can I shift all of the rows up, by, say, one octave? As far as I can see, the step sequencer does not recognise any relationship between rows, so each one has to be altered separately.

You can't. But a couple workarounds would be to load a new drum map that is already configured for the changes or you can add the Transpose MIDI effect to the Fx bin of the SS clip and use that to transpose the notes in real time.

Scott

--
Scott R. Garrigus - Author of Cakewalk, Sound Forge 6, 7/8 and SONAR 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 Power books.
** Get Sonar 6 Power & Sound Forge 8 Power - Today! **
http://www.garrigus.com/

Publisher of DigiFreq. Win a free Absynth 3 or Kontakt 2 DVD Tutorial and learn cool music technology tips and techniques by getting a FREE subscription to DigiFreq... over 20,000 readers can't be wrong! Go to:
http://www.digifreq.com/digifreq/

[pbognar]

I'm sorry to hear that, it works fine in Sonar 7 at this end using AMD X2, as well as in Sonar 6 on my laptop using Intel. You do have the latest AT2 update, right? And you instantiate it as a signal processor, not a soft synth?

Consider re-installing it just in case it got corrupted. I used to have problems with AT2 but not since downloading the latest version.

Craig,

I thought it was in this thread where you mentioned what MIDI keyboard controller and audio interface you were using to perform this review of Sonar 7. Could have sworn it was either the Line 6 KB-37 or the M-Audio Ozonic - maybe I'm hallucinating...

Also, I'm very interested in hearing about Dimension LE versus Dimension Pro (a $99 upgrade until the end of October if you buy Sonar 7). I'm curious how it stacks up against Sample Tank and plugs like that.

Thanks

[Mick@itc]

:poke:Definitely I think that Sonar must improove to the Bob Katz K System -20, -18, -14... metering, that is pretty helpfull on mastering process.

How hard would adopting the K-System be:confused:...really, not a smart-ass comment, just wondering why it has not been adopted?:thu:

Mick

[Anderton]

I thought it was in this thread where you mentioned what MIDI keyboard controller and audio interface you were using to perform this review of Sonar 7. Could have sworn it was either the Line 6 KB-37 or the M-Audio Ozonic - maybe I'm hallucinating...

Also, I'm very interested in hearing about Dimension LE versus Dimension Pro (a $99 upgrade until the end of October if you buy Sonar 7). I'm curious how it stacks up against Sample Tank and plugs like that.

Thanks

You're not hallucinating. While I was at home, I was using the KB-37. Now that I'm at AES in New York, I'm using Bome's MIDI keyboard I.e., using the laptop QWERTY keyboard as a "keyboard") and ASIO4ALL - a less than optimum combination :) but sufficient for the (very) limited amount of Sonar time I have.

Haven't been able to compare Dimension LE vs Dimension Pro, but my experience with Rapture is that Rapture LE will play back anything created for Rapture, but is much more limited. So if you're just interested in playback back patches, you have no need for Rapture. But if you want to create patches, you're better off upgrading.

[pbognar]

You're not hallucinating. While I was at home, I was using the KB-37. Now that I'm at AES in New York, I'm using Bome's MIDI keyboard I.e., using the laptop QWERTY keyboard as a "keyboard") and ASIO4ALL - a less than optimum combination :) but sufficient for the (very) limited amount of Sonar time I have.

Haven't been able to compare Dimension LE vs Dimension Pro, but my experience with Rapture is that Rapture LE will play back anything created for Rapture, but is much more limited. So if you're just interested in playback back patches, you have no need for Rapture. But if you want to create patches, you're better off upgrading.

So for casual home use (less than 12 audio tracks) , the audio interface in the KB-37 is ok?

[Keith-Cakewalk]

Hi Craig,

Thanks for all the comments! Have fun at AES!

One thing you can't do with the Step Sequencer is "lasso" a bunch of notes, then move them around-either to a different row, or different time within the same row.

You can do different time per row. To do that the shortcut is alt + left/right. It also appears in a context menu for the steps row. What it does is shift all the steps left or right a step at a time.

Shifting one row up or down is simply changing the note it plays. Can use mouse wheel for that too.

As stated elsewhere, using track transpose will shift the whole thing (as well as anything else on the track). What's easy to do is to put a Transpose clip effect on the SS clip and shift it around. Then it only applies to that one clip and nothing else.

As far as the convert inverting the order of notes? Good catch. We'll look into fixing that one.

Keith

[Anderton]

So for casual home use (less than 12 audio tracks) , the audio interface in the KB-37 is ok?

Check out this review (http://www.eqmag.com/article/line-6-kb37/jul-07/29588) I wrote for EQ magazine. I estimate I use the KB37 for about two-thirds of the projects I do in my studio, because the workflow is so exceptional. The mic pres aren't $2,000 boutique mic pres, but they're way better than what you would expect for the price.

[DJMillsy]

Hi Guys,

This is the first time i've seen one of your interactive reviews and it's absolutely superb.

I have been a Cubase user for around 8 years and have now decided to look at new DAW's. As it stands I think Sonar has seduced me enough to warrant a cross grade but I do have a quick questions.

Whilst using the Soanr 6 online Demo I noted that it is not possible to cut and paste VSTi automation in the track view. People have mentioned it is a bug and the only way arund it is to use midi controllers in the clip view or drop a single output VSTi into the bin on an audio track.

Has this issue been resolved in Sonar 7??

I will still probably buy it anyway but it would be nice;)

[Mick@itc]

Hi Guys,

This is the first time i've seen one of your interactive reviews and it's absolutely superb.

I have been a Cubase user for around 8 years and have now decided to look at new DAW's. As it stands I think Sonar has seduced me enough to warrant a cross grade but I do have a quick questions.

Whilst using the Soanr 6 online Demo I noted that it is not possible to cut and paste VSTi automation in the track view. People have mentioned it is a bug and the only way arund it is to use midi controllers in the clip view or drop a single output VSTi into the bin on an audio track.

Has this issue been resolved in Sonar 7??

I will still probably buy it anyway but it would be nice;)

Suggest you search or ask on the SONAR forum, they are very active;)


Mick

[pbognar]

Check out this review (http://www.eqmag.com/article/line-6-kb37/jul-07/29588) I wrote for EQ magazine. I estimate I use the KB37 for about two-thirds of the projects I do in my studio, because the workflow is so exceptional. The mic pres aren't $2,000 boutique mic pres, but they're way better than what you would expect for the price.

Thanks for the link, Craig. The idea of an all-in-one solution for audio/guitar processing/MIDI input in a small package is definitely appealing :D

And would be nice to be able to move to any of 3 computers in the house with just this one device :thu:

It's not USB 2.0, but if it gets the job done for my needs - that's what counts.

[soundcreations]

Hey Alex - another heads-up - if I try to insert Steinberg Hypersonic as a soft synth using the insert > soft synths menu, it crashes Sonar. If I insert it by right-clicking in the effects bin and choosing Hypersonic, it loads okay.

Craig,
The crashing Hypersonic VST has been a long standing issue. I think it is a Syncrosoft issue somehow. I never tried loading the vst in the effects bin as I am used to using the Synth Rack.

The DXi is version is very stable and lets you pull up Bank and Patch information in the track view which is nice.

[Anderton]

Whilst using the Soanr 6 online Demo I noted that it is not possible to cut and paste VSTi automation in the track view. People have mentioned it is a bug and the only way arund it is to use midi controllers in the clip view or drop a single output VSTi into the bin on an audio track.

Has this issue been resolved in Sonar 7??

I have not found any way to cut/paste VST automation in Track view. However, it is now much easier to copy MIDI controller data among multiple lanes. This is particularly handy if you want to use the same controller curve for two different parameters.

BTW I'm back from AES and while my time will remain somewhat limited for the Pro Reviews because I'm cranking out videos as fast as I can for the Theater part of the site, I'm working my way back into Pro Review mode :)

[Anderton]

It's not USB 2.0, but if it gets the job done for my needs - that's what counts.

It doesn't really stream enough tracks to justify USB 2.0. I should also mention that it will work at higher sample rates (88.2/96).

[DJMillsy]

I have not found any way to cut/paste VST automation in Track view. However, it is now much easier to copy MIDI controller data among multiple lanes. This is particularly handy if you want to use the same controller curve for two different parameters.
:)

Thanks Craig, I really appreciate the info. I am on the verge of converting to Sonar and Cakewalk will owe you a fee because your review is getting me over the line. ;)

[ZOUNDMAN72]

That's really a shame, because they're great features and they DO work. First of all, you really need to be at 6.2 if you aren't already. Second, in the Pro Review for Sonar 6, I did a couple tutorials on AudioSnap and ACT that people found very helpful. Check them out, both features really are cool once you get them going. (For what it's worth, it took me a while to wrap my head around both of those, and it also took Cakewalk a couple point releases to trim things up as well.)
FYI - 6.22 is for Home Studio only - it can't help us sad sacks that are struggling with SE or PE on Vista64. Today I destroyed the colourful keyboard that I got with my 6.21/keyboard bundle out of sheer frustration - it never worked right anyway - it's in fractured pieces now but I actually do feel better. 'Guess that was the real value of the thing cause typing on it was almost pointless. Workflow? You'd have to be able to do some work first - and I'm still working on that ...

Anyway - stay tuned for further reports. I actually got in touch with someone at Cakewalk recently that professes to be able to help me - and it only took me 3.5 hours of being on hold and talking to first level support staff as they walked me through a bunch of stuff that didn't help at all. I know it's necessary to do that from a trouble shooting perspective but how about shipping software that actually works as it's supposed to in the first place. To be fair - I'm pretty sure that Vista64 is the weak link. My bad for living on the bleeding edge. 'Want my advice? Stick to 32 bit Winders or maybe XP64 is finally working now after 4 years on the market. Do I sound bitter? Yeah sorry but today I lost yet another 2 hours of work - but I'm here to tell you that tequila definitely helps. An hour ago I wouldn't have been able to type as I was incapacited with rage! Anyway I suggest Anejo in a tumbler. Never mind the ice.

Keep on keepin' on

the Zoundman

[BuleriaChk]

I may be repeating myself, but I installed the following updates for multicore and AT2 no longer crashes Live 6, although it still crashes SONAR. These are updates not covered in SP2 or any of the automatic updates. The first two actually solved the problem -live 6 ran for 24 hours without crashing.

(Sonar crashed in the first 2 minutes, as usual.. Nevertheless, I do think the issue is IK instability, not Sonar, since both Live and Sonar run without issue with any other plugin I've tried to date....

Hope this helps - for anyone with multicores, the updates may be worth it on general principles, but read first and backup your system before you try... YMMV....

Best Regards,

Chuck

http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.asp?m=1174423
KB896256
KB936357
kb2005243

http://www.cakewalk.com/support/kb/kb2005243.asp
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=c2ab5a48-8240-4934-bbd8-34fb8a0fce3b&DisplayLang=en



Hi, Craig,

Thanks much for your response; I've tried everything! (And it crashes in Live 6 also). Tried it again (loading as a sfx, not a soft synth) and it crashed again.)

I am on an Intel Dual Core E6700, Asus MB, etc. and everything else runs flawlessly. I am using ASIO, though come to think of it. I'll try WDM and see what happens.....

But it does run smoothly within Revalver, which certainly makes the VST implementation suspect, IMO....

Chuck

[pbognar]

Sort of off topic, but I had to pull the trigger and upgrade from Music Creator 3 to Sonar Home Studio 6 XL for $79 (October special - too hard to pass up - Cakewalk, you got GOT me!!!).

Looks like an incredible value, and I assume that some of the Sonar 7 or 8 features will trickle down to Home Studio in the future, besides, SE and PE are probably overkill for me at this point.

[Anderton]

Still cranking on the AES videos...but getting back to Sonar.

Meanwhile, version 7.0.1 has been released with bug fixes and such, in particular, some Step Sequencer weirdnesses have been addressed. Here's the official word from Cakewalk:

Cakewalk Releases Free SONAR 7.0.1 Update

Boston, MA (October 16, 2007) - Cakewalk, the world's leading developer of powerful and easy to use products for music creation and recording, today announces availability of a free update for SONAR 7 Producer Edition and SONAR 7 Studio Edition. The 7.0.1 updates for both Windows XP and native Vista (32-bit and x64) versions of SONAR 7 Producer Edition and SONAR 7 Studio Edition are available as free downloads for registered SONAR 7 customers at http://www.cakewalk.com/Support/SONAR/default.asp.

The SONAR 7.0.1 Update addresses various performance and stability issues across the entire application, along with specific Step Sequencer functionality/usability enhancements, and numerous plug-ins and component optimizations. In addition, the update addresses several issues reported by customers after SONAR 7's initial release. A comprehensive list of what's included in the SONAR 7.0.1 update can be found at: http://www.cakewalk.com/support/kb/kb20071015.asp.

Many of the new and exciting features found in SONAR 7 are a direct result of active dialog with our users. Furthermore, Cakewalk's delivery of timely product updates is an extension of Cakewalk's commitment in providing the very best in product support for our customers.

Availability

The SONAR 7.0.1 Update is available as a free download from www.cakewalk.com for all registered SONAR 7 Producer Edition and Studio Edition customers.

[Anderton]

Boost 11 is a loudness maximizer (as in, "it goes up to 11" - the famous quote from the movie Spinal Tap, which was also the inspiration for Digidesign's "Eleven" guitar amp plug-in). Loudness maximizer is basically a fancy term for a limiter, and like all limiters, it can give a volume lift to a sound but if overused, produces the kind of nasty effect that seems to afflict most recordings these days: A squashed, flattened sound with no dynamics and audible dynamics.

Referring to the first image, Boost 11 has the same basic control set as similar plug-ins, including the freebie (and actually, extremely good) George Yohng's W1 limiter; but the Boost 11's metering is a big plus here.

The way the Boost 11 works is you boost the input (using the Boost control, natch) for the desired degree of squashing -- I mean, limiting. The input meter shows what's coming in, the output meter shows what's coming out, and the Reduction meter in the center shows the amount of reduction being applied.

Of even more use is the scrolling display of the inputs and output waveforms. Note the red peaks in the display on the left (although unfortunately, they're hard to see because of the image compression algorithm -- they're much more obvious in real life): These are the peaks that get limited in order to raise the overall average level, thus producing a louder sound. If you only see a few red peaks, then you're probably not doing too much violence to the signal. But if you see a lot of red, back off the boost.

The slider to the left of the waveform in display duplicates the Boost control, and the slider to the right of the waveform display duplicates the Output control. The Output control sets a "ceiling," which is set here to 0.1dB -- in other words, the output will be clamped so that nothing goes above 0.1dB.

The second image shows a piece of music without Boost11 (middle strip), with Boost11 (lower strip), and with too much Boost 11 (upper strip). All of them have the same peak level (0.1dB), but it's clear that the musical excerpt with Boost11 is louder signal than the one without Boost11. As for the one with too much Boost11, note the "flattening" of the signal between 25-30 seconds. As you'll hear in the next post, this produces an audibly unpleasant sound.

[Anderton]

Well, the proof is in the listening :)

Attached are three audio examples: A file without boost, one with a judicious amount of Boost 11 (about 3dB), and the third with what I consider to be way too much boost (about 6dB). I think the one with a little boost sounds pretty good; it doesn't affect the signal much or make it sound "squeezed," but definitely gives a hotter level. The one with too much isn't terrible, per se, but you can hear it has a hard time handling the big brass swells toward the end. However, the electric guitar peak on the first note gets reduced quite a lot, and you don't really hear that as unnatural.

[Anderton]

These days, you need some kind of limiter/level maximizer, or the squashing crowd isn't happy. Boost 11 is pretty efficient; while the typical use for this type of processor is on buses, I personally find it most useful on individual tracks to tame something like a resonant filter-induced peak from a synth, as well as to make narration really stand out with vocals. Boost 11 doesn't have any "miracle technology" that other maximizers don't have; like the rest of them, push it too hard, and it won't be able to cope (not unlike people, I guess). You'll end up with a gritty, distorted sound on the louder peaks.

But really, if you're pushing it THAT hard, you're abusing loudness maximization. In fact, regarding a wish list, I'd like it if the metering and controls were a bit more finely-tuned. For example, the Reduction meter goes up to -24. Whoa! That's a lot. I'd rather have a meter that went to -10dB or so, and any more reduction would trigger a message that says "Learn how to use this freakin' thing, okay?" Well, maybe not something that obvious. Still, I can't help but feel that some people will see the Reduction meter barely moving, and figure they aren't hitting the thing hard enough. Ditto the Output and Boost controls: I'd give up range for resolution. and overall, I'd rather see a bigger scrolling waveform display and smaller knobs.

Admittedly, this is getting pretty picky. Fact is, Boost 11 does what it's supposed to do, and does it well. I guess it's just that in a world where there's so much overcompression, I'd like to see Boost 11 sort of gently lead the user into not pushing audio too hard.

Oh, one other VERY cool thing: The Boost 11 is not specifically tied to Sonar 7, and you can load it into any VST host you'd like. I've used it with Wavelab and Sound Forge, for example, and it gives a very good account of itself. The Linear Phase signal processors play well with others, too; we'll get into those next.

[Anderton]

I mentioned earlier that you can't cut/paste VST automation data between tracks, but that copying MIDI controller data is now much easier. Both of these statements are true, but I should also add that non-VST automation data -- mix levels, panning, send levels, and the like -- can be cut, copied, and pasted easily among tracks.

[Montanna1053]

I need some help, maybe you or someone in this forum can help. I am new to the forum thing so please pardon my ignorance on posting and replying and format.

Here is an email I sent to Tech support at Cakewalk.com:

I followed your instructions and removed the VST adapter, restarted the computer, went to Sonar 7_OPTIONS/GLOBAL/VST PLUGINS and deleted everything in the directory and put in C:/Program Files/Cakewalk/Vstplugins.

You told me to click on the SCAN button, but it is still greyed out and not selectable. I did check the boxes to scan on startup, rescan failed plugins and scan exixting plugins. No change.

My Sample content folder is located in the Windows directory in a hidden file, along with the folders from Sonar 3, 5 and 6. I thought when I did the uninstall those folders might have been uninstalled also. Could that be the problem? Sonar 3 and 5 folder seems to be empty excepty for 1 or 2 files, but Sonar 6 folder has all the files in it still. I don't have the exact path yet, but I will send that to you when I get home and boot up my laptop.

I also remember deleting a file or entry in the initialization file by accident. I was hoping that uninstalling Sonar 7 and running a registry cleaner to clean out orphan files might correct that. I have tried to uninstall and reinstall Sonar 7 about 4 times now. I noticed that someone else had an entry in a forum somewhere sayting they had the same problem that I have.

No one has responded to this message yet as of 5:27 PM Arizona time.

I anxiously await your reply and possible solution to my problem.

I hope you can help.

Thank you

[Anderton]

As I don't have that problem, I can't find a solution. Obviously Sonar isn't finding the VST directory, but I don't know why. Have you asked this question over at the Cakewalk forums?

[Anderton]

Sonar is inching ever-closer to being a mastering program (probably for some people, it's already there) and part of what makes that possible are two new processors: The LP64 EQ and LP64 Multiband (compressor). We'll cover the EQ first.

First off, these are quite different compared to the Sonitus track EQs. They are hungrier for CPU; I inserted 16 of the LP64s in a track, and the CPU power spiked as high as 33%, with fairly wide fluctuations. With 16 Sonitus EQs, the CPU power never went above 1%.

They also have long look-ahead buffers, which allow for lowering gain just before a peak occurs; there's about 20ms of delay through the plug-in. Because of this, both processors are slow to respond to edits you make. With the LP64, if you alter a parameter with the graphical interface, the output will mute while the parameter is moving (the muting function seems to be new with 7.01; previously, it did noisy glitching). This makes the LP64 unsuitable for automation, so you'll likely not use it as a track EQ, unless it's to make a permanent change to a track. Really, the LP effects are designed to be bus effects, particularly if you want to spruce up your master output.

To compare the LP64 and Sonitus EQ, I copied a four-bar clip of music, opened an effects bin in each clip, then inserted the LP64 in the first clip and the Sonitus EQ in the second clip. Both clips were looped so one would play right after the other, and both EQs were set to the same numeric settings; check out the attached picture.

My first surprise was that the two EQs affected the sound very similarly in terms of frequencies and gain. However, their "personalities" are audibly different, which I think is apparent even in the attached MP3 file. The Sonitus has a certain quality in the upper midrange that adds a bit of an edge, whereas the LP64 is more neutral in how it affects the sound.

Interestingly, a thorough audition of the LP64 didn't make me want to get rid of the Sonitus EQ, which has a distinctive sound that can be used to great advantage on tracks. But when you want the EQ to be as neutral as possible, and leave your mix pretty much alone except for whatever changes you program in, the LP64 gets the nod. I wish it could be automated, but I can cope . . . I can break a file down into objects, and insert an LP64 in each one, with stepped changes.

How useful is the LP64 to you if you're upgrading? I'd rate the LP64 as a very useful tool to have in your bag of tricks, even if it gets plugged in only on the master bus. It has a natural, honest sound that lends itself very well to bus EQ.

[ogeva]

I think the step sequencer is still buggy, despite the fixes on 7.0.1. I was hoping it would be better with the patch, and in some ways it is.
But still - sometimes when I copy a clip and paste it elsewhere, unlink it from the original and update some of the beats, openning it again shows the original pattern and not the correct one. You hear the correct one, but since the original is displayed it's impossible to edit it.
Also, when copying step sequencer clips to a different project, they are copied as step sequencer clips, but openning them shows no data. The work just the same, but uneditable.
I wish they would have a facility to convert a step sequencer clip back to regular midi, it would solve all of these issues.
Oren

[Anderton]

I wish they would have a facility to convert a step sequencer clip back to regular midi, it would solve all of these issues.
Oren

That's easy to do: Just right-click on the Step Sequencer clip and select "Bounce to Clip(s)," or select it and go Edit > Bounce to Clip(s). The Step Sequence will be a MIDI clip, and if you double-click on it, it will open to the Piano Roll view.

[ogeva]

Thanks! I don't know how I missed that one.
It's an easy fix to the step sequencer quirks. Just bounce to clip and make it a step sequencer and it's the correct step sequencer clip :wave:

[Anderton]

Now let’s look at the LP64 Multiband Compressor; check out the attached image. For those not familiar with multiband compressors, they’re extremely useful tools for dynamics control as they split the signal into multiple bands, then allow compressing the bands individually. Thus, what’s happening in, say, the bass range doesn’t affect the midrange or treble, and vice-versa. As a result, there’s less potential for pumping and breathing, and more precise control.

The LP64 Multiband offers five bands of compression. Each band has buttons to select the band, solo it (very useful, so you can hear exactly what a band does to the sound), and band enable. You can also adjust the center frequency and amplitude of each band via a graphic user interface, and there’s a line of knobs along the bottom for Attack, Release, Threshold, Ratio, and Gain for the selected band. However, these also can be controlled by an “All” button, so if you want, for example, the same attack on all bands, click All and adjust the Attack – it will affect every band. You can also enable “Program Dependent Release” for the Release parameter, which chooses a release time automatically, based on the program material entering the compressor. Finally, there are input and output meters, as well as input and output level controls.

I presume the filters that split the signal into the five bands are based on the ones used in the LP64 EQ, as they exhibit the same “gapping” problem when you edit them in real time. And again, the LP64 Multiband likes sucking on the CPU. In a project with four Rapture LEs inserted, without the LP64 Multiband the CPU meter would peak at 42%, spending most of its time in the 25-40% range. With the LP64 Multiband inserted, peaks hit at 55% and the usual consumption was around 35-50%. So like the LP64 EQ, you’d mostly want to use this as a bus processor; or if you did use it on a track, bounce it so you could free up CPU power. (I did crash Sonar with it once by wildly varying one of the band’s frequencies, but wasn’t able to duplicate this so it may have been some combination of other factors.)

Okay, so how easy is it to use? Basically, it’s as easy or difficult to tweak as any other multiband – there’s a lot of interaction among the various stages, and you need to be careful to keep things under control. My modus operandi for tweaking a multiband compressor is to first decide how to deal with the high and low ends, which are covered by shelving filters (the three midrange bands use bandpass filters). I like to add a decent amount of compression to the low bass range, but not touch the lower midrange; that’s why it’s good to be able to solo individual bands.

Let me also add that you should not try to use a multiband compressor to fix problems with the mix! Get the mix as close to perfect as possible, and use compression only to fix problems that can’t be addressed through mixing alone.

The attached audio example shows a loop with and without multiband compression (using the settings shown in the screen shot). I felt the high end needed a lift, but EQ alone didn’t do it; I wanted the high end to have some more punch as well. The low end had a nice tone, but was a bit too dynamic – I wanted a “flatter” sound. Lowering the bass just via EQ caused the sound to lose some strength, so I decided to compress it; that way, when I lowered its level a bit, there was still a nice, strong sustain.

As you can see from the screen shot, the bass peak was moved quite a bit to the right to “grab” the bass range up to about 200Hz. Similarly, the high end was moved down to about 6kHz. The high-mid range I wanted to compress ended up being centered at around 3.10kHz. The other two bands were not enabled.

You’ll note that the bass band level came down by a few dB, while the high-mid and high bands were brought up. In the audio example, the first four bars don’t use the LP 64 multiband, while the last four bars do. You’ll note the processed section’s high end has a lot more presence, and the bass is tamed and brought into a better perspective with the rest of the parts.

As with the LP64 EQ, the LP64 Multiband is not keyed specifically to Sonar and works with other hosts…which is nice, because it does have a very transparent, open, desirable sound that avoids the “claustrophobic” effect some compressors can impart. Put the two LP processors in your stereo bus, and with some judicious tweaking, you can really improve the sound without adding undesirable coloration. Actually, make that “without adding coloration,” period. I would go so far as to say that with these two processors, Cakewalk has brought its audio processors to a new level, one inhabited mostly by “designer plug-in” companies. Good show – even taking into account the glitching that can occur when making edits. I can live with that, given the exceptional sound quality.

[Anderton]

Whenever doing a Pro Review, I try to be working on a "real-world" project in parallel using the product being reviewed. Not only does this serve as a test bed to check out various aspects of the program, but it lets me have a more "global" view than just looking at the individual parts.

In this case, the real-world project is a sample library of chill-type loops -- sort of Kraftwerk meets Eno, with a slight veneer of New Age. I must say that Sonar has been a piece of cake (sorry, couldn't resist) to work with. Crashes have been few and far between, and come to think of it, have occurred only when I've been really pushing the program to test something out, not in the course of creating the loops.

While working on the project, I've been tweaking the colors. I'm trying for a highly readable color scheme that's still not too violent on the eyes, making a little tweak from time to time, and living with it for a while. Once I have it nailed down, I'll post it here.

At this point I'm still mostly recording and tracking, but here are some of the new features that I've really found particularly useful:

The new MIDI toolsets. This is effing great for editing parts, and I can edit much more efficiently now. I'm not using the magnifier that much in piano roll view, but use it quite a bit when doing in-track MIDI editing. This usually happens after I've recorded most or all of the tracks for the loop, and want to get a more global view of the MIDI data in all the tracks.

Select controllers within note duration. This is a life-saver. I'm recording these tracks as spontaneously as possible to keep a good "feel," which means my timing isn't always spot on. Being able to have the controller data from my live performance motions "travel" with the clip is great.

Other MIDI tweaks. These are the little things - note glue, note split, multiple controller lanes, etc. that once assimilated into your workflow, make life a lot easier.

Dim Solo mode. It's very cool to be able to focus on a track, but in context. And a lot easier than adjusting a zillion level controls...

As I get further away from working on this project in the MIDI domain and moving more into audio (saving out loops, editing them, acidizing, etc.) I'm sure I'll find some other favorite goodies.

[Anderton]

Sonar now has an External Insert plug-in, like Cubase. The purpose of this is to let you use external hardware with Sonar that looks and acts like a software plug-in (although of course, you can only instantiate one instance of a hardware plug-in if there's only one piece of hardware). Actually, Sonar could always do this, but it was relatively complicated: You had to send a track to a bus terminating in an unused audio interface output, patch that to the effect input, patch the effect output to an unused audio interface input, record that to a track, then shift the track in time as needed to compensate for the delays caused by going out to an external device, then coming back in again. And you had to mute the original track, too. The plug-in concept is a lot easier.

The attached image shows the GUI for the "External Insert" plug-in. You specify the external audio interface output in the send section (you can also choose to send the left, right, or mono signal), and where the effect is coming back in the Return section. In this case, I was using the Dock 1 ports from the E-Mu 1820m interface. You also have level controls for the sends and returns, as well as the option to invert the phase of the return signal.

The part in the middle is the Delay block, which compensates automatically for delays through the system and effect: Click on the upper delay button, and Sonar "pings" the effects loop, and sets a delay compensation time.

To test this out, I loaded a drum loop into one track, and the drum loop processed through an external effect (DigiTech RP250, set to bypass) into another track, then listened. Without delay compensation (the default setting), there was audible slapback echo. Clicking on the delay button gave 79 ms of delay, and the slapback echo effect disappeared. I then threw the second track out of phase, to see if the timing was precise enough that it would cancel. It was close, but not exact; I used the manual offset option to add 860 samples (about 20 ms) and they cancelled. That's pretty close, and in most cases, 20 ms wouldn't be a big deal.

The implementation on this is painless. The send and receive block out any options that can't be used, but you can send two tracks into the same effect; however, you can't use the same outputs, although you could bring the right output back into one track, and the left into another. But that's kind of a hassle...I think you're better off just sticking to one hardware effect per insert.

One more thing: The send and return gains, phase invert option, left mute, right mute, and mono are all automatable parameters. Overall, I'd say for those who want to use external processors with Sonar, this feature makes it very easy.

[garrigus]

advantage on tracks. But when you want the EQ to be as neutral as possible, and leave your mix pretty much alone except for whatever changes you program in, the LP64 gets the nod. I wish it could be automated, but I can cope . . . I can break a file down into objects, and insert an LP64 in each one, with stepped changes.


Craig,

You should be able to automate it with a track envelope...

Scott

--
Scott R. Garrigus - Author of Cakewalk, Sound Forge 6, 7/8 and SONAR 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 Power books.
** Sonar 7 Power - Coming this month! ***
http://www.garrigus.com/

Publisher of DigiFreq. Win a free Absynth 3 or Kontakt 2 DVD Tutorial and learn cool music technology tips and techniques by getting a FREE subscription to DigiFreq... over 20,000 readers can't be wrong! Go to:
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[Anderton]

Yes, it's physically possible to automate it, but you get the same gapping problems as if you adjust it manually, making it more or less useless for automation unless you can make your changes during passages where no audio is happening.

[andyw_nz]

I've been using Sonar 6 Pro for a while now, and I'm really happy with most of it. The one thing that lets it down for me is the stave notation view - I would really like to be able to create a decent lead sheet for songs. Features like 'repeats', multiple lyric lines and articulations etc. would be incredibly helpful. I've been using Finale for my lead sheets, but it isn't my favourite bit of software!

I've even considered changing to Cubase because it is a feature that is so important to me, and from what I can tell, Cubase does it a whole lot better!

Does Sonar 7 have any improvements in this area or will I need to continue battling with Finale to get my lead sheets?

[strav100]

I was wondering how the new features in Sonar 7 would allow better integration with the Creamware Scope Professional card? Ableton Live 7 looks like it will have support for external effect/instruments . how does this feature in Sonar 7 shape up?

[Anderton]

Go back a few posts and you'll see I covered the external effects thing. Any questions on what I wrote? As to external instruments, I always figured hey, give it a MIDI out, and record the audio...

As to SCOPE, what kind of integration are you looking for? It already does a good job as far as I'm concerned...I'm a big fan of the SCOPE system.

[Anderton]

A sidechain effect, at least in terms of software, is an effect with a standard audio input along with a second input that allows audio other than the primary audio input to control some aspect of the effect's sound.

One classic example is a noise gate with a "key" input. This allows an audio signal separate from the one feeding the input of the noise gate to open and close the gate. For example, the output of a kick drum could provide the sidechain signal for a bass line going through the noise gate. This would "lock" the bass to the kick, making it sound like the world's tightest rhythm section.

Another classic example is compression. For example, suppose you're recording a singer/songwriter and you put rhythm guitar through a compressor. By feeding the vocal into the compressor's sidechain input, compression will occur if the vocal, not the guitar, exceeds the compression threshold. Thus, the guitar will be compressed when the singer is singing, but otherwise returns to its uncompressed state if there are no vocals.

You can think of vocoders as having a sidechain input-the input for the modulator. Sonar doesn't include a vocoder per se (although you can use the Pentagon soft synth as a vocoder, as described in the Pro Review for Sonar 6), I just mention it for sake of example.

Yet another use for sidechaining is to use a processed version of the effect's input signal to control the effect. Again using compression with a vocal as an example, you can do de-essing by feeding a copy of the input vocal with a massive treble boost into the sidechain input. The trebly parts will kick in the compression, while the sections without a lot of treble will remain uncompressed.

[Anderton]

Sonar 7 includes three modified versions of previously-available effects that do chaining: Sonitus:Gate, Sonitus: Compressor, and Vintage Channel VC-64. Of these, the VC-64 definitely has the most complex implementation, so we'll deal with that last and start off with gating.

When you insert one of these effects into the effects bin, the sidechain input becomes available as a destination for a track or bus. Referring to the attached image, the Sonitus:gate is inserted in a track called Pad_HugeBrass+Strings, which plays a continuous, sustained pad. The track Kit_ClassicElectro (shown in the Inspector) has a drum part that goes to the main out, but also has a send to a bus called Bus > Gate (circled in red for clarity). The bus output's destination is the Sonitus:Gate side input (circled in orange for clarity).

So the signal flow is that both audio tracks feed the main output, but the drum track also feeds a bus, which provides the control signal for the Gate's sidechain input. As a result, the drum track "chops" the pad track, making it sound more rhythmic-as you'll hear if you listen to the audio example, which includes the drum sound and the "chopped" pad sound.

Note that you can also just route an audio track out to the sidechain, but in that case, it won't be going to the main out. However, this implies you can come up with audio tracks designed solely to control sidechain inputs that never appear in the main output.

[johndefiore]

Hi Craig,

Going back to the external insert plug-in, have you been able to get good results with the plug on a bus? Do you get consistent pings every time? Have you tried it with several other plugs in the same effects bin? These seem to be problematic areas for many people. I know Cakewalk has promised an improvement in stability for a future update, but in the meantime it's useful to know who is having problems with what. The following thread on the CW forum describes some of the issues:

External Insert Thread (http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.asp?m=1193142&mpage=1&key=&#1208199)

Thanks,

John

[Anderton]

I have yet to try this with a bus, I've just done tracks so far. But I'll check it out as soon as I finish up the section on sidechaining.

As to the "inconsistent ping" issue, usually it hits a number and stays there. If I keep pinging, I can get it to change but if I ping a few more times, it settles down to a consistent number. It doesn't nail the delay perfectly (see my original post above, I needed to tweak for best results) but 20ms seems close enough for most parts. I don't know if using the E-Mu interface has anything to do with the overall stability I'm experiencing; maybe it's a factor.

So while I wouldn't say the external insert thing is flawless, I certainly haven't even come close to experiencing some of the issues others have. But I'll try the bus insert and see if I can break that :)

[Anderton]

I think you’re really going to like this example…let’s check out sidechaining with the Sonitus:Compressor. In this setup, the tracks and assignments are the same as for the noise gate, except that compression is being applied to a jazz double bass loop (courtesy Big Fish Audio).

The first audio example is the sound of the bass compressing itself. In other words, the bass signal controls the compression – this is the way compression normally works.

In the second audio example, the drum part provides the control signal for the compression. This means that compression happens only when the drums are playing. So, some offbeat hits come through louder, making for a more dynamic part. Also note that despite being more "present" this part doesn’t “step on” the drums at all, because it’s compressed when the drums hit.

[Anderton]

Now, this is where it gets interesting. The third audio example plays the first and second examples at the same time, but with one flipped out of phase so you can hear the difference between the two tracks more clearly. You’ll notice lots of bass peaks – this is how much louder the bass peaks sound on the track where the compression is controlled by the drums. Interesting, eh?

This is of course just one example of sidechained compression at work, but it's a concept that lends itself to experimentation. Just have a bus set up and ready to go to at any time, and you can check out sidechaining using the type of setup we've described.

[Anderton]

The VC-64 channel strip also has a sidechain input, and the two compressors as well as the EQs all have Key switches which, when enabled, allow them to be fed with the sidechain signal. The instrument routings that use compression work like the examples given above for the Sonitus:Compressor, and are useful for the same types of effects.

However, with the VC-64 you can "double" the effect. For example, you could load a VC-64 patch that incorporates two series compressors (like the Instrument Setup), and make the effect even more radical by keying both compressors to the sidechain. In the audio example, you'll hear just that: Drums double-compressing an organ loop, with a short attack time so that there's almost an "attack delay" effect from the drum hits temporarily squashing the signal to near-nothingness.

[Anderton]

Using sidechain with EQ is a different matter, as the results depend on which EQ you have set to Key, and the routing. The following isn't mentioned anywhere that I could find in the documentation, but here's the way it works.

Instrument Setup: Sidechain replaces input signal if EQ1 and/or EQ2 is set to key.

Vocal Setup: Sidechain replaces input signal if EQ1 or both EQs are set to key, and mixes with input signal if EQ2 is set to key.

Two Band Compression: Sidechain replaces input if both EQs are set to key, or mixes with input if one EQ is set to key.

Filtered Compression: With EQ2 set to key, the sidechain signal goes to EQ2 on the way to controlling the compressor. With EQ1 set to key, the sidechain signal replaces the input signal.

Mix and Master Setup: Setting EQ1 and/or EQ2 to key replaces the input signal with the sidechain signal.

Parallel Compression: Same as Mix and Master Setup.

Selective Compression: With EQ1(or EQ1 and EQ2) set to key, the sidechain signal replaces the input signal. With EQ2, the sidechain signal gets mixed in after going through EQ2.

Selective with Sidechain Filter: Setting EQ1 to key does nothing. Setting only EQ2 can produce some really interesting compression-meets-gating effects, depending on how you adjust the C2 compressor settings. The audio example has the organ kind of gating along with the drums (and to make it more interesting, I'm sweeping the EQ2 frequency too). As far as I'm concerned, this setup is the most convincing argument for the VC-64 having a sidechain in. Setting EQ1 and EQ2 to key mixes the sidechain and input signals, with the sidechain going through EQ2.

Split Stereo Setup: With EQ1 set to key and EQ2 off, the sidechain signal comes out of the left channel and the input signal comes out of the right. With the opposite EQ key settings, the sidechain comes out of the right and the input signal out of the left. With both EQ1 and EQ2 on, the sidechain signal replaces the input signal.

Mid-Side Setup: This does various combinations of mixing and stereo effects. In the audio example, EQ1 is set to key, so the sidechain (drums) signal is mixed in with the organ. The organ is going through EQ2, which has the same automation as in the Selective with Sidechain Filter example.

[Anderton]

I found another good use for Boost 11: To bring up room sound mics. I just tried this on a classical harpsichord recording (I'm serious). There's only a dB or two of reduction, but the slight boost helps it co-exist better with the direct harpsichord sound.

[Anderton]

Hi Craig,

Going back to the external insert plug-in, have you been able to get good results with the plug on a bus?

I've spent several hours tonight messing with the external insert and buses. For whatever reason, I can't break it. I keep referencing to another track that has just the audio without any processing, and I'm using drums to make it easier to determine audibly if there's any slapback delay. But it's working just fine. Maybe one useful tip is that I ping when the effect is bypassed.

Do you get consistent pings every time?

No, sometimes if I ping repeatedly I get different values. Basically I ping and if it works, fine (this happens most of the time). If it doesn't, I ping again.

Have you tried it with several other plugs in the same effects bin?

I've tried it with other software plugs in the bin, but have not tried inserting multiple external inserts because it makes more sense to me to just string any external effects together, and treat the collection as one insert.

Bottom line is that while every now and then I'll get inconsistent pings, that's pretty much the only anomaly I'm getting with external inserts. I have no idea why I'm not experiencing problems, maybe my computer just likes me :)

[Anderton]

BTW I'm thinking of doing the included instruments next, then the V-Vocal MIDI capabilities. Before moving on, do y'all have any questions on material that's already been covered?

[Anderton]

In case you wondered where I've been...a couple days ago, the motherboard in my faithful ADK Athlon x2 machine finally bit the dust. All my data was intact (and backed up, of course!) but it was time for a new computer and I am now running a PC Audio Labs dual quad-core Intel machine. Yes, that's right, eight cores! This is a whole other world, frankly. Performance with Sonar is stellar. Check out the attached image for a picture of what eight cores look like in the Transport's CPU meter...

The PCAL computer has a removable OS drive, and Vista is on the second one. So this is also the computer I'll be using when we reach the Vista portion of this Pro Review.

Of course, I'm going to fix the ADK because it still performs just fine. And now that Sony Vegas does distributed rendering, I have a serious reason to network the two computers and really save some time when doing videos. But in any event, from now on, I'll be reviewing Sonar 7 on an eight-core machine (and loving every minute). Now, on to the instruments that are new to Sonar 7.

[Anderton]

Rapture is one of my favorite soft synths (check out the Pro Review (http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1188738) of Rapture for details about the instrument with lots of audio examples), so I have mixed feelings about the LE version. It can play back any standard Rapture patches, which is great, but if someone judges Rapture based on the LE version, they won't be getting an accurate picture of what the instrument can really do.

To give you some background on the full version, Rapture (first attached image) is based around six "elements." Each one loads a waveform or multisample, and the audio engine is exceptionally good in terms of minimizing aliasing. Note that each waveform or multisample can be "multiplied" within an individual element to as many as nine voices, spread in stereo. That's a lot for one element.

You can do keyranges for the elements if you're into splits (layering is inherent: just add more elements). There's also an extensive DSP section with filtering and various processors including distortion, bit reduction, sample rate decimation, and the like; what's more, these can be patched in a variety of fixed configurations, including series, parallel, and series/parallel.

The middle section is where the modulation action occurs, with step sequencer, envelope, and LFO. Each of these is available for Pitch, Filter Cutoff 1, Resonance 1, Filter Cutoff 2, Resonance 2, Pan, and Amp.

Continuing down the signal chain, there are three EQs for each element along with insert effects. A mixer chooses level and pan for each element, but there are also additional pages. A Global page has two sets of global effects, master effects, three more EQs, and left/right Global Step Generators that affect the overall sound. Another page presents a modulation matrix, and there's a virtual X-Y pad controller.

So what do you lose with the LE version (second attached image)? Although there's still a section in the upper left section that shows key ranges, transposition, tuning, polyphony, and so on, you can't vary any of these, except for pulling in different waveforms. I can understand Cakewalk not wanting to give away the store, but at the very least, tuning should have been adjustable-using Rapture LE with acoustic instruments could be asking for trouble if the players tuned to each other rather than concert pitch.

The DSP section remains intact (including the 20 different filter responses), which is appreciated. But modulation is cut down to step sequencing only-no envelope or LFO. While the step sequencing is a very cool aspect of Rapture LE, having only that is a limitation. Also gone: All effects (including the ones on the global page), the modulation matrix, and X-Y controller. You still have the mix/pan/on-off switches for the mixer section, of course. Finally, note that there are fewer programs for the LE version (third attached image).

The bottom line is that it's great that Rapture LE can play back any patches designed for the full version, even if you can't edit them, especially because Cakewalk is putting a major push on support and additional patches/samples for their soft synths. So if you subscribe to the "I don't want to program, I just want to play" philosophy, Rapture LE makes a lot of sense and is all you'll need. But if you're a tweaker (or need to do fine-tuning!), then you'll want the full version of Rapture. (One other fine point: I may be mistaken, but it seems that Rapture LE actually requires a bit more CPU power than Rapture).

From Cakewalk's perspective, I'm not sure if Rapture LE is the best possible advertisement for the full version because you won't know what you're missing if all you use is Rapture LE. I think it would be really cool if you got to use the full version of Rapture for 30 days after buying Sonar, and then you had the option of scaling back to the LE version or purchasing the whole enchilada.

[Anderton]

This is a cut-down version of Dimension Pro, and my opinions regarding Rapture LE vs. Rapture pretty much apply here as well: Great that it plays back all Dimension Pro patches, but in terms of editing, it's much more limited.

Dimension Pro (first attached image) is simpler architecturally than Rapture, as it's designed more for sample playback than pureplay synthesis. It has four elements, again with mixer, but in addition to level and pan there are two FX buses and the ability to select an FX sub-page for these buses with two effects category choices: Modulation (chorus, phaser, symphonic, chorus/phaser) and Reverb (seven algorithms). Like Rapture, it has a comprehensive modulation matrix and a virtual X-Y controller pad.

As to modulators, you can apply an envelope or LFO to each element, which can affect Pitch, Filter Cutoff, Resonance, Pan, and Amp. Each element also has three bands of EQ and an insert FX (with 24 algorithms-delays, reverbs, pan, distortion, etc.), and there are three DSP sections: Lo-fi, Filter, and Drive.

Dimension LE (second attached image) loses the modulators, EQs, insert effect, X-Y controller, modulation matrix, and ability to vary the parameters in the upper left like key range and (again) tuning. Also note that as with Rapture, there are fewer patches included (third attached image).

So my conclusions are the same as for Rapture. Dimension Pro and Rapture are truly excellent soft synths; they have a clean audio engine, and Rapture in particular is rich in programming options. It's very cool to have playback engines that can play back the increasing sets of patches available for these two instruments, but I suspect that many users will choose to upgrade to the full version of at least one of these synths.

[Anderton]

The z3ta+ (which the People of Cakewalk pronounce "zeta") is a full version, not a lite version, of a synthesizer that's been around for several years (first attached image). Although you can see that a lot of its architecture provided the foundation for Dimension Pro and Rapture, it's a different kind of synth that makes its own contribution to Sonar 7. As it is a full version, we'll cover it in more detail than the Rapture LE and Dimension LE instruments.

Don't expect a ground-breaking type of synthesis; you've seen almost all the elements before, like oscillators, filters, effects, LFOs, etc. (Well, you probably haven't seen anything like the waveshaper or the morphable LFOs, but we'll get to those shortly.) However, the z3ta+ takes each of those elements far further than the average synth. The oscillators don't have a few waveforms; they have 59. Each filter has a limiter to tame resonant peaks. There's not just one block of delay effects, but three. Phase-lock options abound, and the z3ta+ isn't content to ring modulate or sync just a single pair of oscillators: A novel "circular" structure allows the oscillators to modulate each other in a way I haven't seen before.

There are two main pages, one with sound generating parameters, and one with effects (second attached image). The two have a common Master Section, which contains several buttons: output limiter on/off, switch between main pages, bank and program management, and open spectrum analyzer window. A pop-up Options menu lets you choose from 11 velocity curves, enable audio input through the processors (cool!), and see a listing of which controls are tied to which MIDI controller numbers, along with ranges and control polarity.

The Master Section also shows the master level control with metering, and five parameters: control name (pass your mouse over a control, and the detailed name shows up here), control value (provides useful feedback, in real units like dB and Hz, when editing a parameter), draft/normal/high rendering quality, polyphony, and number of voices in use.

As to the oscillators, although there are 59 waveforms, it's possible to warp those in so many ways (e.g., the waveshaper shown toward the right of the first image, as well as the fact that waveform width is independently modulatable for each oscillator) there are, for all practical purposes, an infinite supply of waveforms. You'll find the usual controls for each oscillator: semitone and octave transposition, fine tuning, phase control, and level. But a Multi mode (like the voice multiplication feature in Rapture) converts each oscillator to eight oscillators (four stereo), with a detune control-much like the Unison modes of old

Multi isn't the only mode; others allow the oscillator phase to start at the point specified by the phase control setting with each note-on (or phase can be inverted), or free-run so the phase doesn't restart. (Even the Multi option can be phase-synced or free-running.)

The sync/ring modulation options are richer than Bill Gates, as the oscillators can form a modulation circle where oscillator 1 modulates oscillator 2, which can modulate oscillator 3, which can modulate oscillator 4, etc. Oscillator 6 can even "close the loop" and modulate oscillator 1, so all the oscillators are doing perverse things to each other. Each oscillator pair can have a different modulation type: ring, hard sync, phase modulation, and frequency modulation. You can get some frighteningly complex sounds with these routings.

Let's look at the waveshaper a bit more: This lets you twist, bend, fold, staple, and mutilate waveforms with functions such as bit reduction, symmetry change, high or lowpass filtering, overdrive, and several others too bizarre to even attempt to describe here. You can even copy shapes to other oscillators, and any transformations get stored with the program.

The filters are fairly conventional, with one big difference: Tthe 24dB/octave filters consist of two 12dB/octave blocks, and the separation between the cutoff frequencies can be modulated (the 36dB/octave lowpass has three blocks with a similar separation option). Probably the coolest filter trick is wiggling the cutoff in formant mode to get highly "vocal" effects, although the resonance boost switch, which gives whistling self-oscillation effects, is pretty wonderful too.

I wouldn't consider the filter sound as particularly warm; it falls more on the clean, precise side of the fence. However, using the Smart Shaper option in the Distortion effect can add a nice roundness if you turn the distortion tone all the way up, and keep the distortion gain under about 6dB or so.

[Anderton]

Of the six LFOs, four are global and affect all voices, while two are local, with each note having its own LFO. Each LFO can have two waveforms, which can morph from one to the other over a variable amount of time, or be subject to mathematical functions, such as add to each other, subtract from each other, choose the first half cycle from one and the second from the other, multiply their values, take the lowest or highest instantaneous value of the two, and more. Other controls include offset amount (changes the LFO "baseline" level), delay, fade-in, rate (when not being tempo-synced), and phase (alters the phase angle, in 45 degree increments, for the waveform's starting point with each note-on). Phase can also be turned off for free-running LFO effects.

The LFO section may seem like overkill, but think beyond vibrato and tremolo: with all these options, it's possible to generate very complex control signals that evolve over time. You can make patches that are like little electronic music compositions, where you just hold down a key and listen to all kinds of weird things happen over the next minute or two.

The final LFO page contains an arpeggiator. It's fairly simple, but is tempo-synced and tracks tempo changes (or runs free, if that's your thing). Settings are stored with the patch, making it valuable for rhythmic, pulsating effects. Patterns are somewhat limited (up, down, up/down with either last note repeated or dropped, and my personal favorite, random), but the range extends from one to six octaves, a length control sets the note duration, and there's a velocity control that determines how the arpeggiator will affect a patch programmed to receive velocity.

The six general purpose envelopes and single amp envelope share the same parameters: Delay before envelope onset, attack time, slope time to attain an adjustable slope level, decay time to a sustain level, and release time. The overall envelope amount can go positive or negative, for inverse envelope effects. Furthermore, the attack, slope, decay, and release curves can be linear, concave, or convex.

The pitch envelope page is similar, but has controls for delay, start level (initial value after the delay is complete), attack time, attack level, decay time, release time, release level (final level after note off), and amount. Note that the start and release levels can be positive or negative.

As to routing all these modulation options, there's a modulation matrix with 16 "slots" where you can link up modulation sources to modulation destinations, and process the source through different curves and controllers. The choice of control curves is extensive. Some examples are bipolar processing, unipolar processing (with reverse options), "slow" (the source will be applied to a lesser degree when control values are small), pitch curves that cover a specific pitch range, and so on.

Some destinations are notable for their absence: you can't modulate any envelope parameters, the only modulatable LFO parameter is speed, delay feedback isn't supported, reverb has only one controllable parameter (level), and for the oscillators, your only options are pitch and pulse width. For example, if you want to control the envelope decay time by keyboard note number so times get shorter as you move up the keyboard . . . sorry. The mitigating factor is that almost every parameter has an easy-to-use MIDI learn function, so you can at least automate those changes and build them into the sequence. But you can't build them into the patch.

[Anderton]

On-board effects include distortion, modulation, compressor, delay, reverb, and equalizer/simulator. Distortion has six different algorithms, with my favorite being Smart Shaper because the drive characteristics change depending on the input signal. Distortion is applied to the filters, so if filters aren't used in a patch, distortion has no effect. Finally, a post-distortion tone control takes out some of the "bite" to warm things up.

The compressor has a choice of fast, mid, or slow attack, with separate controls for threshold and ratio. Unfortunately, the latter two use virtual sliders, so you can't see their values in the master page readout. Like the distortion, this is good for setting up some quick effects, but it also is useful when processing external audio signals.

The reverb is okay for its intended purpose-just don't expect Reverb of the Gods. The four algorithms are small room, mid hall, large hall, and plate, with parameters for size, damping, low frequency EQ, high frequency EQ, and wet/dry blend. The 7-band EQ, on the other hand, is a home run. The most innovative feature is that there are 12 EQ modes available, which change the band frequencies. For example, the "wide" settings spread out the bands uniformly over low to high frequencies, while the "high" setting places bands at 5, 6.3, 8, 10, 12, 15, and 18kHz. A separate "simulation mode" parameter basically creates curves you can't do manually to obtain specific effects-15" speaker, radio, generic amp, high frequency stimulator-30 in all. This is an extremely useful module (and the slider for each band can be a modulation destination).

The Modulation section also scores highly with mono, stereo, and 6-voice chorus; mono and stereo flanger; mono and stereo phaser; quad phaser; and chorus/phaser. Finally, the delay section offers three individual delay modules, each with four modes (stereo delay, ping-pong, cross delay, and LRC delay) along with sync to tempo options, a feedback control, and three EQ sliders, whose center frequencies are set by one of the six EQ modes. When not syncing to tempo, there are individual controls for left and right delay times.

[King Conga]

Craig,

Hate to be late to class, but I never read the Sonar 6 review/tutorial just because at the time I knew I couldn't afford it, so why get hot and bothered for nothing. However, I just got a new, and much better job, and will be upgrading my entire system. I promise I'll ask more pertinent questions when I come back if you could be so kind as to post that link again.

Tanx,
KC

[Anderton]

Craig,

Hate to be late to class, but I never read the Sonar 6 review/tutorial just because at the time I knew I couldn't afford it, so why get hot and bothered for nothing. However, I just got a new, and much better job, and will be upgrading my entire system. I promise I'll ask more pertinent questions when I come back if you could be so kind as to post that link again.

Tanx,
KC

It's right here in the Pro Review section at http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1438357.

Sonar rocks...I don't think you'll be disappointed.

[pbognar]

This is a cut-down version of Dimension Pro, and my opinions regarding Rapture LE vs. Rapture pretty much apply here as well: Great that it plays back all Dimension Pro patches, but in terms of editing, it's much more limited.



Craig, you mentioned that Dim LE plays back Dim Pro patches, but how do you get the Dim Pro patches if you don't own Dim Pro?

Are there other people selling Dim Pro patches? I got Dim LE with Home Studio 6 XL - I suspect that the Dim LE which came with Sonar Studio/Producer came with much more content (I was underwhelmed...)

And now I come to find that the Proteus Packs, including Proteus 2000 are compatible with Dim LE.

What to do for bread and butter sounds? Wait for Dim Pro to go on sale again for $99 (more than I paid for SHS6XL), get the Proteus 2000 pack for $79, or find Dim Pro content / patches elsewhere?

[flatfinger]

Probably the only thing you could do is buy the expansion packs ( CW or 3rd party ) these also have the waveforms you need to run the patches.

By the way , I agree with Craig that you need the ability to tweak those patches ! It's quite rare indeed to find one that just happens to fit in your mix. Lots of them are spectrum hogs , and although you can carve them down with eq, it's not the same.
Lots of times you'll find one thats in the ball park and then makes some small changes, like say in the attack or lfo speed , then it works much better.

[Anderton]

Craig, you mentioned that Dim LE plays back Dim Pro patches, but how do you get the Dim Pro patches if you don't own Dim Pro?

Are there other people selling Dim Pro patches? I got Dim LE with Home Studio 6 XL - I suspect that the Dim LE which came with Sonar Studio/Producer came with much more content (I was underwhelmed...)

And now I come to find that the Proteus Packs, including Proteus 2000 are compatible with Dim LE.

What to do for bread and butter sounds? Wait for Dim Pro to go on sale again for $99 (more than I paid for SHS6XL), get the Proteus 2000 pack for $79, or find Dim Pro content / patches elsewhere?

Cakewalk is getting aggressive about expansion packs for Dimension Pro and Rapture. Apparently the instruments are doing well, and Cakewalk wants to "fuel the fire." I have no idea whether the original Dim Pro patches will be made available separately, but if the instruments continue to do well, I expect that you will see more support for them.

[Anderton]

Hey, here's an idea: Why doesn't Cakewalk add a world-class sampler to Sonar 8 by offering E-Mu something for the Emulator X2? Just a thought. Meanwhile, we have DropZone, which is a basic sample playback instrument.

Previous versions of Sonar (as well as Sonar 7, of course) had the SFZ player, which could play SFZ, WAV, and Ogg Vorbis files and had the additional advantage of being multitimbral-you could stick a sample (or SFZ multisample) in each MIDI channel. According to the help, it also has a multimode filter, envelopes, and other synth-type modules, but I've never been able to find them and I suspect that the help is out of sync with the product itself. Whatever.

In any event, DropZone is much more sophisticated than the SFZ player. It can load WAV, SFZ, and Ogg Vorbis files, but also AIFF and REX files. With the latter (see first attached image), you can trigger the full REX loop, or individual slices, depending on where you play on the keyboard. It also comes with a bunch of SFZ multisamples and programs, so you're not limited to rolling your own.

The samples get loaded into one or both elements, and each has a lot of options: One of 16 different filter types (with cutoff, resonance, and cutoff response to velocity, keyboard note, and mod wheel), and separate ADSR envelopes (with depth and velocity response controls) for pitch, filter cutoff, and amp. The LFO, also separate for pitch, filter cutoff, and amp, has 9 different waveforms, frequency and depth controls, and the LFO depth responds to velocity, keyboard note, and mod wheel. The second attached image shows the filter options.

Each element has a volume and pan control, as well as the option to set keyrange, velocity range switching, root note, fine tuning, keyboard tracking, and polyphony limit. You can set a start and end time for the sample, but more importantly, you can loop any portion of the waveform (the sound plays through to the loop, then loops). Once you've established a loop, you can slide it left or right in the waveform, as well as change direction (forward, backward, forward/backward) and set a crossfade time to minimize any clicks caused by the loop repeating.

Finally, you'll find a virtual X-Y pad that controls pitch and vibrato. It has "virtual spring loading" so you can "flick" it with your mouse, and it will return to center with a certain amount of inertia. You can see it to the left of the filter drop-down menu in the second attached image, which also shows an AIF waveform being forward/reverse looped.

[Anderton]

One of Dimension LE's strong points is that it can read the Garritan Pocket Orchestra library that ships with Sonar 7. Garritan's sounds are always welcome, and while the breadth of instruments doesn't come close to the Garritan Personal Orchestra, it's a nice taste of orchestral sounds.

I've already mentioned that Rapture LE and Dimension LE are great because they can play back content, but they're obviously limited compared to the full versions. Not so the z3ta+, which is the full version. It's a very tasty, capable, and underrated synthesizer that adds considerable value to the Sonar 7 package. DropZone is not going to make the designers of Kontakt/MachFive/EX24/etc. lose any sleep, but once I got into it, I will say it's a fast way to grab a sample, loop it, and play it. The main way I use it is for developing grooves when I'm in a hurry.

Ultimately, if you have a good collection of soft synths, this aspect of the Sonar 7 upgrade probably won't get you too excited. Even if you have Dimension Pro and Rapture, though, the z3ta+ makes sounds that aren't quite like anything else. And as more and more content appears for Dimension Pro and Rapture, they'll be increasing value in having these playback engines.

My one complaint involves patch storage and organization, which I find highly confusing. For example, the DropZone content (including multisamples) is located in the DropZone folder in the VSTplugins folder. Fair enough. But if you want to deposit some custom Rapture patches for Rapture LE to read, I found content for Rapture LE in Documents and Settings\All Users\Application Data\Cakewalk\Rapture LE\Programs. But the Multisamples it reads from go in Program Files\Cakewalk\Rapture LE\Multisamples-and if you have Rapture installed, its multisamples go elsewhereWhen I created some patches for Rapture, I couldn't figure out where to put them so they'd show up in both the Rapture LE and Rapture browsers (answer: you can't get them to show up in both places, or at least I don't think you can, unless you put the programs in two places where both Rapture LE and Rapture can see them). Documentation for the instruments is scattered around as well.

From what I understand part of this patch chaos is Windows-related, in order to work with Vista. Still, there's gotta be a better way to organize patches and multisamples for these excellent instruments. Does anyone have a solution? Or can someone from Cakewalk explain the logic behind where different instruments store their patches?

[Anderton]

I said we'd close out this review with testing Sonar 7 on 64-bit Vista, but although we still need to cover some additional aspects of Sonar 7 (the export and delivery enhancements, for example, and some of the "smaller" updates), I wanted to move up the Vista aspect a bit in the review because I'm finding it pretty interesting.

First, the basics. I'm running Vista Ultimate in 64-bit mode on a PC Audio Labs computer with dual quad-core Intel 3.0 GHz processors and 8GB of RAM. In other words, if this was a car, it would be a Lamborghini. However, the graphics card is a Matrox triple-head, which is great for audio but is not deemed sufficient to run Aero (the Vista feature that gives fancy, glassy graphics). In fact, solely because of the audio card, this computer scores a "1" on Microsoft's "Windows experience" scale of wonderfulness. No matter; I'm more interested in performance than the Windows experience, and the Matrox performs very well. Besides, once you've used multiple monitors, you don't want to go back.

Second, about Vista. It has not been a smashing success the way XP was, and I doubt that its sales (and the number of people upgrading) have met Microsoft's expectations. This is both understandable and unfortunate. Understandable because XP has proven itself to be a reliable, sturdy system with a huge amount of hardware and software support. And, Microsoft didn't help matters by releasing several versions of Vista with varying capabilities (not to mention 32- and 64-bit versions), thus confusing the marketplace, and pricing the software relatively high. Nor did they fully manage to communicate what advantages Vista offers over XP, which I believe in some ways is due to the "moving target" nature of Vista: What it was promised to do several years ago falls short of what we actually have in our hands. As one example, the whole premise that Vista would have a database-driven file system that would radically change how we find and manage files turned out to be unattainable for now. The reality we're left with is a search system that just barely manages to catch up to the Mac's spotlight function, and even then, doesn't organize the search results as elegantly as the Mac.

The unfortunate aspect is that Vista doesn't deserve the way it's been dismissed. Although some of it reeks of "Mac envy" (Sidebar is just like the Mac widgets), overall I find it a cleaner, more developed (albeit initially more confusing) system than XP. The built-in speech recognition capabilities are excellent, the search function is at the very least a big improvement over XP, the system is much more secure (I actually felt okay hooking my music computer up to the net), and some of the consumer-oriented aspects--being able to make movies, DVDs, and organize photos--are convenient. Stability is as good on this initial release as it was with XP, if not better. Furthermore, you know Microsoft isn't going to go down without a fight. When the service packs start arriving, and there's more support, people will feel more comfortable with Vista.

But what's of real interest here is the 64-bit aspect, MMCSS, and WaveRT-all of which hold great promise for the future for pro audio, even though that potential is not yet realized. At present, 64-bit computing represents a transitional point, and transitions are never easy (just ask the Mac fans who endured the switch from System 9 to OS X, and from PPC to Intel--yet despite the difficulty of the transition, I don't think anyone would want to go back to the way it was). 64-bit Vista requires 64-bit processors and drivers designed specifically for 64 bits. I certainly didn't like seeing my beloved Creamware SCOPE system become useless in a 64-bit world, nor did I like not being able to use the Line 6 KB37 interface (a very, very cool songwriting tool)--sorry, 32-bit Vista only.

However, support is on the way...here's what I experienced.

[Anderton]

The first thing I needed was an audio interface. Having found MOTU's interfaces to be rock-solid in the past, and having had good luck with the MOTU Ultralite on both XP and Mac, I downloaded the Vista 64 bit drivers. But while the Ultralite showed up in the control panel sounds, device manager, and Sonar, and everything seemed to be in order, I couldn't get an output from Sonar or Windows Media Player. I'm assuming it's pilot error of some kind (I thought maybe it was the FireWire chip set, but it's a TI set as recommended by MOTU) but rather than pursue it, I thought I'd move on.

Next up: The E-Mu 1820m. E-Mu has beta 64-bit drivers on their site, and they work very well. The PatchMix DSP runs under a 32-bit shell, but it's functioning well, too. And I must say, it was a kick plugging a mic into it and using the speech recognition function to control Sonar. Both ASIO and WDM worked surprisingly well, given the beta nature of the drivers; although some users report problems with ASIO under Vista 64, and think WDM works better, I was able to get fairly reliable latencies around 2-3 ms with ASIO. I throttled back to 10 ms for security's sake and Sonar has performed very reliably.

PreSonus has real, signed, ready-for-prime-time drivers for the FireBox and other PreSonus products, so I installed the FireBox drivers. This required a firmware update, but in typical PreSonus fashion, they've made the updating process painless and obvious. Both ASIO and WDM were solid, although there were two WDM quirks: I couldn't get latencies under 12 ms, and Sonar defaulted to the wrong stream so my initial tests gave nasty, spiky, unuseable audio. The fix is simple-go Options > Audio > Driver Profiles tab, and change stream to 32-bit PCM, left-justified.

One advantage to WDM is you can use multiple interfaces simultaneously (something that Mac fans think was invented by Apple with the "aggregation" process in Core Audio, but was available long before that on Windows).

Interestingly, for some reason, "10 ms" latency in Vista 64 seems more consistent than "10 ms" latency in XP. It might be my imagination, but I don't think so. Hmmm...

[Anderton]

After a bit of effort and head-scratching, I was "on the air" with 64-bit Sonar in a 64-bit world. As much as I'd like to report I had a religious experience, Sonar ended up working pretty much as it does under XP. It seemed a bit zippier, actually, and even a bit "smoother," but there was no fantastic change that made me go "wow, this 64-bit stuff is fabulous!" And not being able to use some of my favorite hardware was a major drag. And yet...

Getting back to the car analogy, I felt like I indeed had a Lamborghini, but in a world where there were few roads. Sure, it was great to gas the accelerator on a straightaway, but I would need two things to make this system really zoom: An interface with WaveRT drivers (which I'm convinced have the potential to revolutionize how we deal with audio on computers), and the ability to turn some of my RAM into a virtual drive so I could record and edit in that--no hard drive required. (The MMCSS scheduling service is another important element, but it has more to do with keeping other programs from hassling Sonar than improving Sonar's performance per se.)

The Big Deal about WaveRT is not that it lowers latency--that depends on how many sample buffers you're using--but that it promises to lower the latency you can get without stressing out your CPU. I'm sure many of you have had the experience of setting a low latency value, only to find that as you started adding tracks and instruments, the CPU started red-lining and you had to increase latency. The promise of WaveRT is that you will be able to run low latencies without needing excessive CPU resources.

Some have said that WaveRT will never take off because it's a Microsoft standard. Yet it's a standard that was developed in close cooperation with the audio community, not something where Microsoft said "here, take it or leave it." It deserves a shot at becoming a standard.

The ability to access huge amounts of RAM, another Vista goodie, holds promise in two areas: Samplers (no more streaming from hard disk, unless you want to) and the possibility to record right into RAM and edit there as well. Between that and WaveRT, we can expect to see a day--hopefully before too long--when the CPU and disk meters don't register very high, even with fairly complex projects.

Ultimately, other aspects of Vista come into play: A better search function will make it easier to find files, projects, and samples, and the built-in backup and imaging functions should make it increasingly difficult for people to use the "I didn't back up my data!" excuse. And if you're not afraid to put your music computer on the net, that makes the whole online collaboration thang a lot more believable.

[Anderton]

I don't have to make that decision, as the PC Audio Labs computer comes with a removable system drive so I can boot into XP or Vista 64. You could also have a dual boot system with separate partitions (I prefer the removable drive approach, because if a hard drive fails, you can carry on with the other system until you restore your imaged backup.)

However, a crucial consideration here is that Sonar is a bit different from the norm: It's a complete 64-bit system with some bitchin' instruments and plug-ins, as well as the sequencer itself. There are many times I don't need to go "outside" Sonar to do a project, and for those times, there's no reason not to go 64-bit. It is the way computing is going, so why not get a head start?

Having said that, though, I think the majority of people are going to stick with XP and 32-bit Sonar until they see some demonstrably obvious advantage to going 64-bit. That could be when WaveRT drivers hit, when their current hardware gets updated drivers, or when more programs start appearing that take advantage of 64-bit operation, like TASCAM's GigaStudio 4.

I'm in a somewhat unusual situation because there are two aspects to my musical life: The purely musical, "I-need-to-hit-the-Fed-Ex-dropoff" part, and the "journalist-exploring-new-frontiers" part. Each one now lives on its own boot drive :). I don't find Vista anywhere near as puzzling as others do; it seems to me like a logical evolution of XP, although you do have to wrap your head around some changes. And when I boot up in 64 bits, I can't help but feel I'm on the threshold of the next era in computing. I'm not exactly sure where it's going to take us--and who knows, maybe it will end up being the computer equivalent of the SACD and fizzle in the face of consumer resistance--but I have high hopes.

Meanwhile, given that Sonar can install as a 32-bit or 64-bit application, you can find out for yourself whether the next step is worth taking (assuming, of course, you have a system that can support 64-bit operation). "Always in motion, the future..." I'm digging the 64-bit thing, but that doesn't mean I recommend it--especially if you have a system that works just fine, and you have tight deadlines to meet. But I do think that one day, you'll end up in a 64-bit world. And it may very well be AMD...although that's a separate discussion!

[Anderton]

Every Pro Review has a different gestalt, but this one puzzles me a bit. We have over 36,000 page views, which means a lot of people are reading this review...yet there are very few questions or comments. I haven't seen Alex from Cakewalk poke his head in here for some time, either. Maybe this means I'm doing such a wonderful job no one feels the need to ask any questions, and the lack of comments simply means that everyone agrees with me. :) But this is in the internet! You're supposed to be making suggestions about what should be in future versions, telling me what I don't "get," and describing some of your own experiences.

As long as the page views keep increasing steadily, I'll keep posting but please, if you have anything to say, don't be shy!

We'll be wrapping this up soon as we delve into the remaining new features in Sonar 7, and then we'll present some conclusions.

[tarsier]

Hey, here's an idea: Why doesn't Cakewalk add a world-class sampler to Sonar 8 by offering E-Mu something for the Emulator X2? Just a thought. Meanwhile, we have DropZone, which is a basic sample playback instrument.

DropZone is far more than a basic sample playback instrument. Its power comes from the SFZ format. Do you want a different sample on each key with a different sample for each velocity with all sorts of filters, keyswitching, and bank seletion? DropZone can do it with an SFZ file.

The problem is that all the power is hidden in the SFZ text file and only accessible by editing that file--which DropZone, Dimension LE and others don't let you do. So the power goes to waste.

Any chance you could explore the SFZ format in more detail in this review?

[flatfinger]

Tarsier,
The info your wanting is in a book by Simon Cann called"cakewalk Synths, from preset user to power user " ( name may not be exact)

It goes into great detail on how to get the most from SFZ( you may Already know this , but I put it up for others out there who may benefit)

[Anderton]

Here's an excellent and comprehensive reference on SFZ files:

http://www.cakewalk.com/DevXchange/sfz.asp

[Anderton]

Also, in the Sonar 6 PE Pro Review, I gave a brief tutorial on using the SFZ format to create custom drum kits for Session Drummer 2, which starts on the following page:

http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1438357&page=6

[aleeann]

Thanks for a wonderful write up. Very insightful and swayed me back over to Sonar for future production.

As I'm going through many of the capabilities of Sonar, particularly midi implementation, I've stumbled upon an issue that seems odd to be overlooked by Cakewalk...the ability to have Sonar "remember" your specific controller assignments made within the Synth Rack view after assigning controls through remote control/learn. I recently made over 15 midi assignments using my hardware controller within Synth Rack, then saved the project, came back the next day, opened the project and Sonar didn't save or "remember" any of the knob or slider assignments I made.

Am I missing something here? With Reason, Live, Logic, etc. this just happens automatically. I know a little about ACT, but feel it's too clunky at this point and only interrupts my creativity.

Here's a workaround found on the web, but doesn't really address what my end needs would be.

"Here's the way around it: don't use the Synth Rack. You'll have to right-click/load the synth into the FX Bin of an audio track. Then point the output of a MIDI track to that (synth) audio track. (I'm using 6.2.0 here).

Next to "Display" at the bottom of the Track Inspector (the three-arrow Module Options -> Fx), check "Show Assignable Controls". Then do all of your Remote Control assignments (and re-assignments) from the exposed 'widgets' now visble in the Track Inspector. "

I'm curious if anyone else has encountered this or maybe I'm overlooking something.
Thanks!

[ducatibruce]

<snip>
My one complaint involves patch storage and organization, which I find highly confusing. For example, the DropZone content (including multisamples) is located in the DropZone folder in the VSTplugins folder. Fair enough. But if you want to deposit some custom Rapture patches for Rapture LE to read, I found content for Rapture LE in Documents and Settings\All Users\Application Data\Cakewalk\Rapture LE\Programs. But the Multisamples it reads from go in Program Files\Cakewalk\Rapture LE\Multisamples-and if you have Rapture installed, its multisamples go elsewhereWhen I created some patches for Rapture, I couldn't figure out where to put them so they'd show up in both the Rapture LE and Rapture browsers (answer: you can't get them to show up in both places, or at least I don't think you can, unless you put the programs in two places where both Rapture LE and Rapture can see them). Documentation for the instruments is scattered around as well.

From what I understand part of this patch chaos is Windows-related, in order to work with Vista. Still, there's gotta be a better way to organize patches and multisamples for these excellent instruments. Does anyone have a solution? Or can someone from Cakewalk explain the logic behind where different instruments store their patches?

The Project5 wikii contains this entry which details default file location & the registry entry to modify to relocate multisample folders here http://p5.sonarama.com/p5/index.php/ExpressionEngine_Multisample_Relocation

[Anderton]

Thanks very much for the info, I'm glad there's a workaround but it seems awkward to have to hack the registry to do something as simple as point the instrument to a particular set of samples. Sonar itself lets you specify file paths for pretty much everything; I'd like to see the instruments have similar options.

[garrigus]

Am I missing something here? With Reason, Live, Logic, etc. this just happens automatically. I know a little about ACT, but feel it's too clunky at this point and only interrupts my creativity.



When you insert the soft synth using the Insert > Soft Synths menu, did you put a checkmark next to the option Recall Assignable Controls in the Insert Soft Synth Options dialog box?

Also, when you save and close the file, make sure you keep the Synth Rack view open. That way it will appear when you open the project again. I just tried it and if you don't keep the Synth Rack open, it loses the assignment values (must be a bug), but if you keep it open then the values stay.

Scott

--
Scott R. Garrigus - Author of the Cakewalk Sonar and Sony Sound Forge Power book series. Get Sonar 7 Power & Sound Forge 8 Power - Today! Go to: http://www.garrigus.com/

Publisher of DigiFreq - free music technology newsletter. Win a free Absynth 3 or Kontakt 2 DVD Tutorial, go to: http://www.digifreq.com/digifreq/

Publisher of NewTechReview - free consumer technology newsletter. Win a free WWF Slam Cam digital camera, go to: http://www.newtechreview.com/newtechreview/

[ross g]

ok, here's a question regarding the External Insert: i haven't tried it with an actual external audio processoer yet, but i was looking it over last night and i couldn't figure out how to get a stereo return (i was getting a stereo send) using an Emu 1820/Patch Mix...also: do you see any pros/cons to using Sonar's External Insert over setting up an external insert in Patch Mix?

btw: i like the idea of X2 being included/integrated with Sonar...

[AW - Cakewalk]

Every Pro Review has a different gestalt, but this one puzzles me a bit. We have over 36,000 page views, which means a lot of people are reading this review...yet there are very few questions or comments. I haven't seen Alex from Cakewalk poke his head in here for some time, either. Maybe this means I'm doing such a wonderful job no one feels the need to ask any questions, and the lack of comments simply means that everyone agrees with me. :) But this is in the internet! You're supposed to be making suggestions about what should be in future versions, telling me what I don't "get," and describing some of your own experiences.

As long as the page views keep increasing steadily, I'll keep posting but please, if you have anything to say, don't be shy!

We'll be wrapping this up soon as we delve into the remaining new features in Sonar 7, and then we'll present some conclusions.
:wave:

I try not to get in the way. I believe you're doing an excellent job explaining the in's and out's of SONAR 7.

[aleeann]

When you insert the soft synth using the Insert > Soft Synths menu, did you put a checkmark next to the option Recall Assignable Controls in the Insert Soft Synth Options dialog box?

Also, when you save and close the file, make sure you keep the Synth Rack view open. That way it will appear when you open the project again. I just tried it and if you don't keep the Synth Rack open, it loses the assignment values (must be a bug), but if you keep it open then the values stay.

Scott

--
Scott R. Garrigus - Author of the Cakewalk Sonar and Sony Sound Forge Power book series. Get Sonar 7 Power & Sound Forge 8 Power - Today! Go to: http://www.garrigus.com/

Publisher of DigiFreq - free music technology newsletter. Win a free Absynth 3 or Kontakt 2 DVD Tutorial, go to: http://www.digifreq.com/digifreq/

Publisher of NewTechReview - free consumer technology newsletter. Win a free WWF Slam Cam digital camera, go to: http://www.newtechreview.com/newtechreview/

Thanks Scott - yes, I have the Recall Assignable Controls check box checked. Even after saving and reopening it remains checked.

The issue really isn't recalling the actual controls within the Synth Rack, but rather recalling the controls as they are mapped to the particular knobs on a hardware controller. After saving, then reopening, all of those routings to the physical knobs, sliders, etc. are lost and you have to go through the entire process again and every time after.

Is this a bug? I'm not a programmer, but maybe it's a simple fix?

a

[garrigus]

The issue really isn't recalling the actual controls within the Synth Rack, but rather recalling the controls as they are mapped to the particular knobs on a hardware controller. After saving, then reopening, all of those routings to the physical knobs, sliders, etc. are lost and you have to go through the entire process again and every time after.

Is this a bug? I'm not a programmer, but maybe it's a simple fix?

a

Oh, okay... I didn't realize this was a hardware controller issue. How exactly are you making the assignments?

Scott

--
Scott R. Garrigus - Author of the Cakewalk Sonar and Sony Sound Forge Power book series. Get Sonar 7 Power & Sound Forge 8 Power - Today! Go to: http://www.garrigus.com/

Publisher of DigiFreq - free music technology newsletter. Win a free Absynth 3 or Kontakt 2 DVD Tutorial, go to: http://www.digifreq.com/digifreq/

Publisher of NewTechReview - free consumer technology newsletter. Win a free WWF Slam Cam digital camera, go to: http://www.newtechreview.com/newtechreview/

[aleeann]

Oh, okay... I didn't realize this was a hardware controller issue. How exactly are you making the assignments?

Scott

--
Scott R. Garrigus - Author of the Cakewalk Sonar and Sony Sound Forge Power book series. Get Sonar 7 Power & Sound Forge 8 Power - Today! Go to: http://www.garrigus.com/

Publisher of DigiFreq - free music technology newsletter. Win a free Absynth 3 or Kontakt 2 DVD Tutorial, go to: http://www.digifreq.com/digifreq/

Publisher of NewTechReview - free consumer technology newsletter. Win a free WWF Slam Cam digital camera, go to: http://www.newtechreview.com/newtechreview/

No worries. :)

I am making the assignments within the synth rack, creating controllers in the specific VST GUI, then doing a learn for each hardware controller. It works like a charm and I love being able to set-up all of my controllers like this. I save the project, then reopen and all of the VST controllers are there, however, the routing to the hardware is gone and moving the physical knob on the respective controller does nothing. The path from the controller within the GUI to the hardware control surface is lost. :confused:

BTW, I ordered your book and it should arrive tomorrow. Looking forward to diving into it!

[garrigus]

Thanks very much! I hope you enjoy the book.

So you're right-clicking on the controller knobs in the Synth Rack view and using the Remote Control feature to make hardware control assignments?

Scott

--
Scott R. Garrigus - Author of the Cakewalk Sonar and Sony Sound Forge Power book series. Get Sonar 7 Power & Sound Forge 8 Power - Today! Go to: http://www.garrigus.com/

Publisher of DigiFreq - free music technology newsletter. Win a free Absynth 3 or Kontakt 2 DVD Tutorial, go to: http://www.digifreq.com/digifreq/

Publisher of NewTechReview - free consumer technology newsletter. Win a free WWF Slam Cam digital camera, go to: http://www.newtechreview.com/newtechreview/

[aleeann]

Thanks very much! I hope you enjoy the book.

So you're right-clicking on the controller knobs in the Synth Rack view and using the Remote Control feature to make hardware control assignments?

Scott



Yes, indeed.

[garrigus]

Ah, ha... okay, well if the assignments are not being saved, then you may have found a bug. You should report that to Cakewalk when you have a chance.

In the meantime, ACT has pretty much replaced that older method for assigning hardware controllers. It's not too difficult to use. It's just the initial setup that can be a little confusing. After that, you make controller assignments in a similar manner by using ACT Learn. Turn it on, mouse over some controls then move some hardware controls (in the same order you want them assigned), turn ACT Learn off and confirm the assignments when Sonar asks. That's it. There's a section in my book about ACT so you might want to take a look at that and see if it helps to get you going with it.

Scott

--
Scott R. Garrigus - Author of the Cakewalk Sonar and Sony Sound Forge Power book series. Get Sonar 7 Power & Sound Forge 8 Power - Today! Go to: http://www.garrigus.com/

Publisher of DigiFreq - free music technology newsletter. Win a free Absynth 3 or Kontakt 2 DVD Tutorial, go to: http://www.digifreq.com/digifreq/

Publisher of NewTechReview - free consumer technology newsletter. Win a free WWF Slam Cam digital camera, go to: http://www.newtechreview.com/newtechreview/

[Anderton]

There's also quite a bit about using ACT in the Sonar 6 pro review...more of a tutorial about ACT than a review, actually. I agree with Scott that once you get it figured out, it's smooth sailing. It just takes a while to figure it out :)

[aleeann]

Thanks guys!

I'll "play" with ACT some more and I've already reported this possible bug to Cakewalk.

I'll let you know if I hear anything back on this.

Best,
a

[ross g]

ok, here's a question regarding the External Insert: i haven't tried it with an actual external audio processoer yet, but i was looking it over last night and i couldn't figure out how to get a stereo return (i was getting a stereo send) using an Emu 1820/Patch Mix...also: do you see any pros/cons to using Sonar's External Insert over setting up an external insert in Patch Mix?

btw: i like the idea of X2 being included/integrated with Sonar...


bumping myself here....

[Anderton]

Funny you should mention the E-Mu 1820, because I used an 1820m to test Sonar's external output feature. IIRC I sent the outs via dock outs 2 or 3, and returned via the A line and B line ins or dock ins 1...I didn't take notes because it was all pretty painless. You just want to make sure that: 1) you're sending through outs you're not using for anything else, 2) you're receiving through ins you're not using for anything else, and 3) you have the corresponding drivers enabled in Sonar.

As to pros/cons, the Sonar External Insert pings for delay and compensates. I don't know if the 1820m does this or not, but I don't think so.

Hope this helps!

[mhaigh]

hi Craig
great thread as usual. just a couple of things on soundcards - echo have perfectly usable vista x64 drivers. maybe worth a look. of more interest is their WaveRT drivers for the 3g series pci cards. although there have been some issues with sonar (see the CW forums) that echo are currently working to fix. however several forumites have seen an improvement in ASIO function in vista using this.
the main problem with WaveRT is that it does not support USB or Firewire devices, only PCI/PCIe/x. which makes it useless for many people.

finally, did you apply the intel multi-core patch which made such a big difference to latency in WDM mode?

thanks
mark

[ross g]

Funny you should mention the E-Mu 1820, because I used an 1820m to test Sonar's external output feature. IIRC I sent the outs via dock outs 2 or 3, and returned via the A line and B line ins or dock ins 1...I didn't take notes because it was all pretty painless. You just want to make sure that: 1) you're sending through outs you're not using for anything else, 2) you're receiving through ins you're not using for anything else, and 3) you have the corresponding drivers enabled in Sonar.

As to pros/cons, the Sonar External Insert pings for delay and compensates. I don't know if the 1820m does this or not, but I don't think so.

Hope this helps!

think i got it figured out, i had to set up the correct ASIO paths in Patchmix...

as far as delay compensation, i was under the impression the Patchmix app would provide "zero latency" with an external insert and therefor need no "pinging"...i'll test it out and post results when i get a chance...regardless, i 'm guessing once set up correctly, the Ext Ins in Sonar 7 would end up being more convienient anyway...

[ChristopherMo]

Why doesn't Cakewalk add a world-class sampler to Sonar 8 by offering E-Mu something for the Emulator X2?

Because (IMHExperience) Sonar and X2 don't get along too well. Sonar frequently suffers the White Screen of Sloth when I load X2, and sometimes just doesn't make it, forcing me to "kill app" or even to reboot. Then loading one of E-MUs copy-protected (C-Dilla) libraries is the next hurdle. I actively avoid using X2 with Sonar, unless it's the only way to achieve something.

In fairness, I have heard no-one else complaining about this, although many users seem to have problems with Proteus X2, which I presume shares a lot of code with Emulator X2.

Sorry to respond so late to your post!

[Anderton]

hi Craig
great thread as usual. just a couple of things on soundcards - echo have perfectly usable vista x64 drivers. maybe worth a look. of more interest is their WaveRT drivers for the 3g series pci cards. although there have been some issues with sonar (see the CW forums) that echo are currently working to fix. however several forumites have seen an improvement in ASIO function in vista using this.
the main problem with WaveRT is that it does not support USB or Firewire devices, only PCI/PCIe/x. which makes it useless for many people.

Thanks very much for the info, I wasn't aware of the "no USB/Firewire" with WaveRT. Although after doing several pro reviews on Firewire interfaces, I'm beginning to think PCI cards are a better choice...

finally, did you apply the intel multi-core patch which made such a big difference to latency in WDM mode?

thanks
mark

No I haven't, but I think it's likely that PC Audio Labs already applied it unless it just came out within the past couple months. Do you know where to find the patch, and also, how to tell if it's installed on my machine?

Thanks again.

[Anderton]

As far as delay compensation, i was under the impression the Patchmix app would provide "zero latency" with an external insert and therefor need no "pinging"...i'll test it out and post results when i get a chance...regardless, i 'm guessing once set up correctly, the Ext Ins in Sonar 7 would end up being more convienient anyway...

I'd be interested in those results. I would think there might not be additional latency, but I would think there would be the latency of going through the interface and any delays caused by A/D-D/A conversion if the external effect is digital with analog I/O.

[ross g]

Because (IMHExperience) Sonar and X2 don't get along too well. Sonar frequently suffers the White Screen of Sloth when I load X2, and sometimes just doesn't make it, forcing me to "kill app" or even to reboot. Then loading one of E-MUs copy-protected (C-Dilla) libraries is the next hurdle. I actively avoid using X2 with Sonar, unless it's the only way to achieve something.

In fairness, I have heard no-one else complaining about this, although many users seem to have problems with Proteus X2, which I presume shares a lot of code with Emulator X2.

Sorry to respond so late to your post!

so far i haven't noticed any problems...X2 seems to load pretty slow all the time for me ...

[garrigus]

No I haven't, but I think it's likely that PC Audio Labs already applied it unless it just came out within the past couple months. Do you know where to find the patch, and also, how to tell if it's installed on my machine?

Thanks again.

Hey Craig,

Check out this link:
http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=60416

Best,
Scott

--
Scott R. Garrigus - Author of the Cakewalk Sonar and Sony Sound Forge Power book series. Get Sonar 7 Power & Sound Forge 8 Power - Today! Go to: http://www.garrigus.com/

Publisher of DigiFreq - free music technology newsletter. Win a free Absynth 3 or Kontakt 2 DVD Tutorial, go to: http://www.digifreq.com/digifreq/

Publisher of NewTechReview - free consumer technology newsletter. Win a free WWF Slam Cam digital camera, go to: http://www.newtechreview.com/newtechreview/

[Anderton]

Thanks Scott! I'll check out adding the hotfix.

[pbognar]

Cakewalk is getting aggressive about expansion packs for Dimension Pro and Rapture. Apparently the instruments are doing well, and Cakewalk wants to "fuel the fire." I have no idea whether the original Dim Pro patches will be made available separately, but if the instruments continue to do well, I expect that you will see more support for them.

I almost thought I had a second chance to upgrade to Dim Pro for $99 from the Dim LE which came with my Sonar Home Studio 6 XL with a confusing 5 day offer from Cakewalk, but it appears that you have to also buy/upgarde to Sonar 7 to qualify.

How is the content which comes with Dimension Pro out of the box? I know this is subjective, but if it is really that great, maybe it's even worth the normal customer price of $149 - but I have nothing to compare it to.

[rcorujo]

Hello everyone,

I am new to this forum and was hoping that I could get some answers to the following questions:

1) Does SONAR 7 allow you to create a professional sounding recording using strictly MIDI (e.g. no audio input from keyboards)? I have an $80 software package called Magix Midi Studio and the standard patches don't sound very realistic so I was wondering if purchasing the more expensive SONAR 7 instead of a super expensive workstation like the Roland G70 is enough.

2) Does SONAR 7 have a vocal harmonizer and is it any good?

3) Does SONAR 7 have anything to enhance your vocals like, for example, automatically adjust the vocals should you momentarily go out of pitch?

4) Does SONAR 7 have anything to alter your vocals like make a man's voice sound like a woman's voice, for example?

5) Does SONAR 7 do MIDI to WAV without you actually having to take the output on the sound card and feed it into the input on the sound card? Magix MIDI studio does something called "bouncing" but only on audio tracks, not MIDI tracks. The Magix FAQs say that you can't bounce MIDI. Does SONAR 7 have a way to do this?

6) Does SONAR 7 have real electric guitar sounding patches and does it mimic downstrokes and upstrokes?

7) I assume that, in the end, the realism of the sounds really depend on the sound card. What sound card would best produce realistic sounds from MIDI?

8) Can SONAR 7 change your voice from one key to another without speeding up or slowing down the recording?

Thank you.

Rigoberto

[garrigus]

1) Yes, you'll find some acoustic sounds in Dimension LE and DropZone, however, if you're looking for super-realistic (as in 24-bit samples with many different articulations, you'll have to invest in an expensive sound library like the ones available from East West). Either that or you can also use audio loops that provide pre-recorded realistic performances.

2) Not something that is automatic, but you can experiment with the included V-Vocal to create your own harmonies.

3) Yes, the built-in V-Vocal processor.

4) No, not really. Again, you can experiment with V-Vocal to change the pitch and formant of the vocal part to get various results.

5) Yes, you can easily bounce or freeze a MIDI track that is driving a software synth, which converts it to audio automatically.

6) Same answer as #1.

7) No, it depends on the quality of the sample library of the soft synth that you are using for MIDI playback. However, a good soundcard is needed for high-quality audio output of your final production. Cakewalk has a list of recommended cards on their site at:
http://www.cakewalk.com/Tips/audiohw.asp

8) Yes, you can use V-Vocal for that.

I'm sure you'll get some more info from others here as well, but suffice it to say, Sonar is an excellent piece of software.

Scott

--
Scott R. Garrigus - Author of the Cakewalk Sonar and Sony Sound Forge Power book series. Get Sonar 7 Power & Sound Forge 8 Power - Today! Go to: http://www.garrigus.com/

Publisher of DigiFreq - free music technology newsletter. Win a free Absynth 3 or Kontakt 2 DVD Tutorial, go to: http://www.digifreq.com/digifreq/

Publisher of NewTechReview - free consumer technology newsletter. Win a free WWF Slam Cam digital camera, go to: http://www.newtechreview.com/newtechreview/

[Healing Spirit]

Hi

I'm brand new to this forum and to Sonar 7, having escaped from Cubase which I found tough to get on with. I almost gave up but was told that Sonar is far more intuitive.

Thanks so much for this thread - I've learned a lot from it.

I have also ordered Scott's book, which I'm sure will also be a great.

I'll not ask any questions yet, as I havent finished the user's guide and I know how irritating questions can be when the obvious answer is RT(F)M!

I am confused, however. Several posts have referred to a 'VST folder'. Looking at my Sonar 7 folder in Windows Explorer, I can't see it as a first level folder; I'm worried that I may have not installed everything correctly, but will keep looking.

Thanks again to everyone; I must say that a) not having to use a USB dongle, b) the laid back and friendly attitude of everyone compared to the Cubase forum, c) the readability of the user guide and d) Cakewalk's generosity in the competitive cross-grade price, have all made for a great first impression

[Anderton]

Hello everyone,

I am new to this forum and was hoping that I could get some answers to the following questions:

Scott pretty much covered the answers, but here are some additional comments.

1) Does SONAR 7 allow you to create a professional sounding recording using strictly MIDI (e.g. no audio input from keyboards)?

Scott assumed that by "realistic" you mean acoustic sounds, but be aware that Sonar lets you make a lot of realistic synth sounds, like Minimoog emulations.

2) Does SONAR 7 have a vocal harmonizer and is it any good?

3) Does SONAR 7 have anything to enhance your vocals like, for example, automatically adjust the vocals should you momentarily go out of pitch?

4) Does SONAR 7 have anything to alter your vocals like make a man's voice sound like a woman's voice, for example?

8) Can SONAR 7 change your voice from one key to another without speeding up or slowing down the recording?

These all relate to the V-Vocal vocal processor. Remember that these types of products can only do so much. If you want to transpose your voice a fifth above, you're not going to get very realistic results but if you just need to fix some pitch issues here and there, it works just fine. Also in terms of enhancing vocals, Sonar has compressors, equalizers, reverb and the like, which can also improve the sound of vocals.

7) I assume that, in the end, the realism of the sounds really depend on the sound card. What sound card would best produce realistic sounds from MIDI?

You might be assuming a sound card with built-in sounds...but with Sonar, the TTS-1 synthesizer provides a decent set of General MIDI sounds (piano, guitar, strings, brass, etc.) so you want a sound card that's optimized for audio quality.

In addition to looking on the Cakewalk site, I've found the Line 6 KB37 to be an all-around useful interface. It includes audio interfacing but also a keyboard that's useful for entering MIDI parts.

[rcorujo]

Thank you Scott and Craig for your very informative answers.

Rigoberto

[garrigus]

I have also ordered Scott's book, which I'm sure will also be a great.

I'll not ask any questions yet, as I havent finished the user's guide and I know how irritating questions can be when the obvious answer is RT(F)M!

I am confused, however. Several posts have referred to a 'VST folder'. Looking at my Sonar 7 folder in Windows Explorer, I can't see it as a first level folder; I'm worried that I may have not installed everything correctly, but will keep looking.


Hi Healing Spirit,

Thanks for purchasing my book! I hope you enjoy it.

To find the VST folders that Sonar is using on your system, in Sonar choose Options > Global > VST Plug-Ins. That box lists all the VST folders that Sonar looks to find any VST plug-ins you are using. You can also change the folders, add new folders, etc.

Scott

--
Scott R. Garrigus - Author of the Cakewalk Sonar and Sony Sound Forge Power book series. Get Sonar 7 Power & Sound Forge 8 Power - Today! Go to: http://www.garrigus.com/

Publisher of DigiFreq - free music technology newsletter. Win a free Absynth 3 or Kontakt 2 DVD Tutorial, go to: http://www.digifreq.com/digifreq/

Publisher of NewTechReview - free consumer technology newsletter. Win a free WWF Slam Cam digital camera, go to: http://www.newtechreview.com/newtechreview/

[Anderton]

Be aware that programs often install their own folders for VST plug-ins. For example, Cubase will install one in the Steinberg folder.

What I do is create a single VST plug-ins folder within the Programs folder on the root drive (i.e., C:\Programs\VSTplugins). When I install a program, I always choose that as the place to install VST plug-ins, and tell the programs that's where to look for VST plug-ins by setting the file path (as Scott describes above for Sonar).

Another consideration is that most programs let you specify more than one VST plug-ins folder. This is very useful if you encounter plug-ins that work in some programs but not in others: I have a "problematic plug-ins" folder that some programs look in for plug-ins, but which is excluded from other programs.

However, in that respect, note that Sonar has sophisticated plug-in management options that let you exclude, rename, re-order, etc. plug-ins. This is part of the extensive customization that Sonar allows, and to me, is one of the program's strongest points.

[Healing Spirit]

Thank you kind sirs!

I look forward to hours of fun learning this prog... I'm sure I'll be asking for help before long!

[Anderton]

Well, you've found the right place to ask :) But let me also remind you that the Cakewalk forums are excellent. Many people consider them a valuable extra "feature" of the program.

And again, props to Scott for his participation!

[garrigus]

And again, props to Scott for his participation!

Hey Craig,

No problem. I'm glad to help out...

By the way, nice job on the December issue of EQ. I really enjoyed your Sounds of the Psychedelic Era article. Very groovy, man... :cool:

Scott

--
Scott R. Garrigus - Author of the Cakewalk Sonar and Sony Sound Forge Power book series. Get Sonar 7 Power & Sound Forge 8 Power - Today! Go to: http://www.garrigus.com/

Publisher of DigiFreq - free music technology newsletter. Win a free Absynth 3 or Kontakt 2 DVD Tutorial, go to: http://www.digifreq.com/digifreq/

Publisher of NewTechReview - free consumer technology newsletter. Win a free WWF Slam Cam digital camera, go to: http://www.newtechreview.com/newtechreview/

[Anderton]

Thanks Scott, the December issue of EQ is getting a very strong and favorable response so you're not alone!

We now return to our regularly scheduled programming. Let's get into how V-Vocal does pitch-to-MIDI....

[M4Ever]

In the meantime, ACT has pretty much replaced that older method for assigning hardware controllers. It's not too difficult to use. It's just the initial setup that can be a little confusing. After that, you make controller assignments in a similar manner by using ACT Learn. Turn it on, mouse over some controls then move some hardware controls (in the same order you want them assigned), turn ACT Learn off and confirm the assignments when Sonar asks. That's it. There's a section in my book about ACT so you might want to take a look at that and see if it helps to get you going with it.

Scott

--
Scott R. Garrigus - Author of the Cakewalk Sonar and Sony Sound Forge Power book series. Get Sonar 7 Power & Sound Forge 8 Power - Today! Go to: http://www.garrigus.com/

Publisher of DigiFreq - free music technology newsletter. Win a free Absynth 3 or Kontakt 2 DVD Tutorial, go to: http://www.digifreq.com/digifreq/

Publisher of NewTechReview - free consumer technology newsletter. Win a free WWF Slam Cam digital camera, go to: http://www.newtechreview.com/newtechreview/

Hello

I have Sonar PE 7.0 and just got an Edirol PCR-800. It was really easy to set up for ACT. I started to learn about how to assign buttons, faders and knobs to plugins. I practiced ACT Learn on Sonitus fx Gate and i assigned 2 faders S7 and S8 to Gain and Threshold. It was very easy.
But then i wanted to undo it, since i don't want to keep these assigments (it was just for practicing).
And here comes my problem. I can't figure it out, how can i unassign anything or how can i delete a whole ACT layout for a plugin if i wnt to change it? I didn't find anything in the help file, the Sonar manual or anywhere else about undo an assigment in ACT Learn. I asked that on the Cakewalk forum but no answer yet. :confused:
I tried the same thing in Sonar PE 6.21 with the Sonitus Gate and Izotope Vinyl plugins. So easy to assign them, but can't find a way to unassign anything. It's just strange to me that there is no info about it at all (or i'm just so blind
Probably it's a very simple step, just i'm missing something here.
Please someone help me!:idea:

[garrigus]

In Sonar, use the Tools menu and choose the control surface you are using from the list to open the Properties windows for that surface. Then click the Options tab and use either the Default button or Clear MIDI Learn button to erase your control assignments.

Scott

--
Scott R. Garrigus - Author of the Cakewalk Sonar and Sony Sound Forge Power book series. Get Sonar 7 Power & Sound Forge 8 Power - Today! Go to: http://www.garrigus.com/

Publisher of DigiFreq - free music technology newsletter. Win a free Absynth 3 or Kontakt 2 DVD Tutorial, go to: http://www.digifreq.com/digifreq/

Publisher of NewTechReview - free consumer technology newsletter. Win a free WWF Slam Cam digital camera, go to: http://www.newtechreview.com/newtechreview/

[King Conga]

Craig,

Was there anywhere in your review that you commented on the chipsets, and/or the MOBO that you used to test Sonar (either ver 6 or 7)? If so, pardon me for revisiting it; otherwise could you enlightened me. I'm researching the issue as diligently as I can.

Thanks for the help,
KC

[Anderton]

I used a dual-core AMD Athlon computer from ADK for the Sonar 6 review, and am using a dual quad-core Intel computer from PC Audio Labs for Sonar 7 as it lets me evaluate both the 64-bit and standard versions of Sonar.

[M4Ever]

In Sonar, use the Tools menu and choose the control surface you are using from the list to open the Properties windows for that surface. Then click the Options tab and use either the Default button or Clear MIDI Learn button to erase your control assignments.

Scott

--
Scott R. Garrigus - Author of the Cakewalk Sonar and Sony Sound Forge Power book series. Get Sonar 7 Power & Sound Forge 8 Power - Today! Go to: http://www.garrigus.com/

Publisher of DigiFreq - free music technology newsletter. Win a free Absynth 3 or Kontakt 2 DVD Tutorial, go to: http://www.digifreq.com/digifreq/

Publisher of NewTechReview - free consumer technology newsletter. Win a free WWF Slam Cam digital camera, go to: http://www.newtechreview.com/newtechreview/

Thanks for the reply, Scott!

I tried the default button before and it doesn't do anything with the plugin control assigments as far as i can tell. If i press F1 for the help file it says: "...Defaults button--click this button to restore all the fields and checkboxes on the Options tab to their default values...." which has no effect on the blue boxes (plugin assigments) on the Controllers tab only for the green boxes (they can be set from the Options tab).

Here is how i did my set up, maybe it clears up what i'm doing wrong:
1. Turn on the PCR-800 (connected via USB), then start Sonar 6.21 or 7.0 (same thing in both case)
2. Options Menu / MIDI Devices /
Input:Edirol PCR 1 and Edirol PCR 2, Output: Edirol PCR
3. Options / Controllers-Surfaces / Add New Surfaces
I choose the Edirol PCR-300 template, Input Port: EDIROL PCR 2, Output Port:--None- (I read it from Brandon Ryan in a post to set it to none but it doesn't make any different if i set it to EDIROL PCR)
4. Now i go to Tools menu and click on Edirol PCR-300 - 1 . It opens up and now the control assigments visible on the Controllers tab. There are blue and green boxes.
The blue boxes are assignable to plugins. I insert the Izotope Vinyl plugin in the Master Bus track Fx bin (or any other plugin into any other fx bin) The sliders and knobs are assigned immediately into those blue boxes on the Controllers tab. But I want them in a different setup. So I set them up the way I want them. And here comes my question.
In this example I assigned accidentally (or just change my mind later on) S7 and S8 sliders to control the same button (Vinyl: RPM) in Izotope Vinyl (see picture below). How can I clear S8’s blue box, so if I move the S8 slider on the PCR-800 it won’t control the Vinyl: RPM button in the plugin? I can assign it to a different button or slider in the plugin with no problem but I don’t know how to “empty” it completely if I don’t want the S8 slider to control anything within this plugin!

The only way I found it to do is to edit the xml file in the ACT Data folder but it has to be an easier way to do it from within Sonar, I suppose. However I couldn’t find anything in the help files, the manual or even the Sonar 6 Power! Book about this so far! It’s always only how to assign controllers but not how to dump unwanted assignments.

Any suggestion? Thanks in advance.

[K705]

As long as the page views keep increasing steadily, I'll keep posting but please, if you have anything to say, don't be shy!

Hi Craig,

I evaluated Sonar7 for the past two weeks (and ordered it today). Your review has been an important help to sort out what I want and what Sonar delivers. Especially the instruments section was useful as they don't show up in the demo version. Thanks a lot. :-)

K705
(still reading here)

[garrigus]

Thanks for the reply, Scott!

I tried the default button before and it doesn't do anything with the plugin control assigments as far as i can tell. If i press F1 for the help file it says: "...Defaults button--click this button to restore all the fields and checkboxes on the Options tab to their default values...." which has no effect on the blue boxes (plugin assigments) on the Controllers tab only for the green boxes (they can be set from the Options tab).


Ah... okay. I see what you mean. Well, it looks like Cakewalk assumed that people would want all their controls assigned, because it looks like the only way to totally delete an assignment is to do what you did... edit the XML file.

Scott

--
Scott R. Garrigus - Author of the Cakewalk Sonar and Sony Sound Forge Power book series. Get Sonar 7 Power & Sound Forge 8 Power - Today! Go to: http://www.garrigus.com/

Publisher of DigiFreq - free music technology newsletter. Win a free Absynth 3 or Kontakt 2 DVD Tutorial, go to: http://www.digifreq.com/digifreq/

Publisher of NewTechReview - free consumer technology newsletter. Win a free WWF Slam Cam digital camera, go to: http://www.newtechreview.com/newtechreview/

[zinoff]

I remember reading somewhere, but can't figure out where...

..That there was a shortcut combination in Sonar7 that would allow you to slow down the screen updates in order to free up even more CPU resources, I remember as well reading that there is no indicator that shows whether this option is active or not.

Does anyone know more about this? How to enable/disable this functionality?

Thanks a lot!

[Anderton]

Use the QWERTY keyboard'sPause key, and yes, there is no indicator other than a sluggish GUI - the UI gets updated only once per second in this mode, but it saves quite a bit of CPU power.

Thanks for reminding me to mention this!

[Surfer11May]

Regarding the Roland V-Vocal 1.5, now with Pitch to MIDI conversion:

Will this work for polyphonic tracks?
Can four part harmony be picked out of a vocal audio track?
What about a few trumpets, a vocal, and some strings?

On another topic, I'm picking up a new computer with quad core and preinstalled Vista Home Premium. For a second boot drive, should I try XP 64 or Vista Ultimate 64? Or would XP Pro and Vista Ultimate 64 be a better combination for a removable dirve two boot system?

Thanks for the Thread.

[mhaigh]

the v-vocal to midi will only work on clean monophonic sources, with a 4 part harmony on a busy audio track your pc will probably cough violently, fall over and die....

As MS has dropped support for xp64, you can only get vistax64 now, and sonar 7 only officially supports this.

[Columbian]

I'm new here, and I gotta say it's great to see how seriously you guys take this. This is a great, no-nonsense forum.

I'm hoping you can help me find a couple features that may or may not exist in Sonar 7.

Does sonar have anything like a MIDI compressor? I need a fast way to set a threshold and have velocities above that be all reduced by a percent I specify, and then, to boost the overall velocity level.

I've found things in Sonar that sort of do these things, but require 3 or 4 steps.

Anyone have a one-step solution?

And since I use a MIDI wind controller, I need to do that with MIDI breath controller values too.

thanks for any help.

[garrigus]

Not sure if this is what you need, but check out this article...

* Compressing MIDI Velocities in Cakewalk
http://www.digifreq.com/digifreq/tip.asp?ID=1

And find more articles here:
http://www.digifreq.com/digifreq/articles.asp

As referenced in the article, the Interpolate feature should work with breath controller values too... just specify it using the Control parameters.

For real-time MIDI velocity control, you can add the MIDI Plugins > Cakewalk FX > Velocity plug-in to the Fx bin of a MIDI track.

Scott

--
Scott R. Garrigus - Author of the Cakewalk Sonar and Sony Sound Forge Power book series. Get Sonar 7 Power & Sound Forge 8 Power - Today! Go to: http://www.garrigus.com/

Publisher of DigiFreq - free music technology newsletter. Win a free Absynth 3 or Kontakt 2 DVD Tutorial, go to: http://www.digifreq.com/digifreq/

Publisher of NewTechReview - free consumer technology newsletter. Win a free WWF Slam Cam digital camera, go to: http://www.newtechreview.com/newtechreview/

[Columbian]

Scott:

Thank you for that tip. The interpolate process does do the job, as you suggested, for both velocities and controllers, including breath of course. and I was pleasantly surprised to find that if you give the "replace" side of it a range of values, it will scale your selection smoothly. You really do know this program.

It's a pretty tweaky and distracting process, though, and slows down the work flow. What I had in mind was something more like the MIDI plugin for velocity that Sonar already has. It's got a relatively intuitive GUI and can Limit, Scale, fade, and set to spec'd value.

It's not quite a real compressor / limiter, but it's real close. All it needs really is a threshold setting. The rest of the needed functions are already there: "Change" functions like a level boost; and "Scale" is close enough to a ratio setting. It's really more a question of their paradigm, and I'm actually surprised they haven't already cobbled this into a MIDI Comp/ Limiter.

Oh, yeah, and it should be able to do this to controllers, not just velocity.

Just my Christmas list.

Thanks again for the tip. I'll use it til a groundswell forces Cakewalk's hand. (ho, ho.)

[garrigus]

Glad I could help... yeah, it would definitely be nice to have something like the Interpolate function as a real-time plug-in. That would be seriously powerful.

In the meantime, Cakewalk does take user requests seriously and you can send in a feature request using the following page:
http://www.cakewalk.com/support/featurerequest.asp

Scott

--
Scott R. Garrigus - Author of the Cakewalk Sonar and Sony Sound Forge Power book series. Get Sonar 7 Power & Sound Forge 8 Power - Today! Go to: http://www.garrigus.com/

Publisher of DigiFreq - free music technology newsletter. Win a free Absynth 3 or Kontakt 2 DVD Tutorial, go to: http://www.digifreq.com/digifreq/

Publisher of NewTechReview - free consumer technology newsletter. Win a free WWF Slam Cam digital camera, go to: http://www.newtechreview.com/newtechreview/

[Columbian]

Okay, I took your suggestion and went and submitted a feature request to Cakewalk. time will tell.

thanx again for your consideration.

[Anderton]

Here's a quickie compression option for 2:1 compression:

1. Divide all values by 2.
2. Add 64 to all values.

[Anderton]

For "limiting," just add a constant to all values.

[MoonMix]

Craig...

Going back to the External Insert Plug-In for a moment...the main reason I upgraded to v7 was for this ability. I simply wanted to be able to master w/ one machine (PC.) Then I read your post back on page 3 or 4 or wherever; & found that I can do the same thing in earlier versions of SONAR ???

This is pretty disconcerting...considering I'm running SONAR5 right now (haven't opened v7's box yet)...but judging from 7's trial version...I'm not real happy w/ the quality of the text (compared w/ v5). Specifically, the text in the Control Windows (In the Audio & MIDI Track control modules...at the left...Input, Output, FX Bin, Vol, Pan, etc.) looks cheap & jagged. I suppose it's because they've gone for a more streamlined approach...but the fonts look too linear...like the letters & numbers are displayed in straight line-stroke segments...[instead of smooth & radial (like in SONAR5)].

[This is merely a disappointment, mind you...not a big bitch or anything. It's just that I'm a huge graphics meister; & was hoping for better font quality.]

But having said all this...since you've also said this is not a 'major' upgrade...aside from the MIDI enhancements (which I'll probably use), I'm a bit miffed (or at least scratching my head as to why I upgraded).

Oh...on the mastering thing...I wanted to be able to route the full, stereo mix from a project, out & thru a hardware compressor/limiter; & recapture it in an adjacent stereo audio track...no big deal? (&; w/ a final mastering approach such as this...delay or latency doesn't matter.)

But...can this be accomplished cleanly (in 7...or even prior versions)?

Thanks,

MoonMix

[Anderton]

Yes, I do that kind of thing all the time. BTW it's true you could always use external effects in Sonar, BUT they didn't have delay compensation (you had to do it manually), and also, you couldn't use them as insert plug-ins -- you always had to go out to a bus, then bring the processed sound in through a separate track. So the insert thing in S7 is more about making it convenient and more accessible, than being some breakthrough new thing you could never do before.

However, the addition of the sidechainable effects, which is is big deal in terms of the upgrade, obviates about 70% of the reason I needed to use external effects.

[Anderton]

As to the fonts...that's something I never really noticed, and I don't find it problematic.

Since you're running Sonar 5, I strongly suggest installing Sonar 7!!! It's not just about what's been added in 7, but also, all the stuff that was added in 6. The cumulative effect of the two updates is huge. After using 7 for the past couple months I would not want to go back to 5. And actually, given how much I use MIDI, I wouldn't want to go back to 6 either.

[nivek_yoccm]

First, Craig, I really appreciate your reviews and keep them on my shelf right next to Scott Garrigus' books as well as your Sonar Insider! So thanks.

Have you (or anyone else) had big problems loading certain Z3TA+ programs? Particularly, the bank C 002 program, "superstring"? BEFORE TRYING, please turn off your monitors and unplug headphones--just watch the meters. . . If you get the sound I get, it's horrendously loud and like someone blowing air out really quickly. It always kills the audio engine and a few times has caused a fatal error and Sonar crash.

Will some readers try this and let me know? I can't imagine what it could be in my system (a brand new quad core w 4G RAM from a top DAW builder with an RME FF400 interface). I've even eliminated my controller (M-Audio Axiom) by just triggering the Z3TA+ program with the ribbon at the bottom of the GUI. Unfortunately, this seems to happen in quite a few Z3TA+ programs (at least quite a few in the C bank).

Please let me know if anyone can recreate this. Thanks very much!!! :wave:

Kevin

[garrigus]

The Superstring program works fine for me. Just tried it...

Thanks for reading my books!
Scott

--
Scott R. Garrigus - Author of the Cakewalk Sonar and Sony Sound Forge Power book series. Get Sonar 7 Power & Sound Forge 8 Power - Today! Go to: http://www.garrigus.com/

Publisher of DigiFreq - free music technology newsletter. Win a free Absynth 3 or Kontakt 2 DVD Tutorial, go to: http://www.digifreq.com/digifreq/

Publisher of NewTechReview - free consumer technology newsletter. Win a free WWF Slam Cam digital camera, go to: http://www.newtechreview.com/newtechreview/

[Anderton]

Same here. Maybe re-install the content?

[nivek_yoccm]

Same here. Maybe re-install the content?

Thanks guys. I reinstalled Z3TA+ and same problem. I also had this problem on my last DAW (one of the reasons I got this new one. . .); so I've recreated this problem on two systems. Totally baffled as just about the only things that have been consistent between systems are: me, the RME Fireface (that shouldn't affect Z3TA+ though?), and the Sonar/Z3TA+ installations (I've eliminated the controller). I'm starting to suspect an actual error on my disc. I also just had the same problem when I brought Z3TA+ up in Project5.

[Anderton]

Try increaseing latency, or using WDM instead of ASIO drivers. Check for new drivers...might be an audio-related issue.

[garrigus]

What sampling rate are you using in your projects? I've found that for some reason (and I don't know why) that Dimension Pro (and possibly Rapture, but I don't recall at the moment) doesn't like to play properly at sampling rates above 48kHz. The same problem might occur with z3ta+, but I haven't tested it.

Scott

--
Scott R. Garrigus - Author of the Cakewalk Sonar and Sony Sound Forge Power book series. Get Sonar 7 Power & Sound Forge 8 Power - Today! Go to: http://www.garrigus.com/

Publisher of DigiFreq - free music technology newsletter. Win a free Absynth 3 or Kontakt 2 DVD Tutorial, go to: http://www.digifreq.com/digifreq/

Publisher of NewTechReview - free consumer technology newsletter. Win a free WWF Slam Cam digital camera, go to: http://www.newtechreview.com/newtechreview/

[mhaigh]

i had also found z3ta+ to be very loud when i firste got it - however now it's no too bad, maybe since i installed the 7.01 patch? try that and see if it works...

[nivek_yoccm]

Thanks MHaigh, Craig, and Scott. That's definitely helped--ever since I got the Fireface and had problems with WDM, I switched to ASIO and stopped thinking about drivers entirely. I can get the (mostly C bank) programs to work; but only when I'm using WDM and at 48K. I'm actually very relieved that there is some progress! I am kind of concerned with being stuck using 48K though as I almost always work at 96K. . . It does still seem like a driver problem since CPU doesn't ramp up normally, but spikes instantly. In fact, just switching to certain programs (@ 96K), not even triggering a note, will trigger 100% CPU and maxing of levels (including the Master w fader set all the way down). Surely this is some kind of driver incompatability with these programs and 96K. . . I guess I need to try to get RME to duplicate this. I'd rather not be stuck in 48K whenever I want to use some programs (?).

Thanks very much, again. Just seeing some changes really helps; I was pretty bummed, having gotten a new DAW and still seeing these same problems.

Kevin

[Anderton]

Pitch-to-MIDI! Cool! Let's see how well it works.

I decided to start with something simple, yet possibly challenging: Creating a kick drum part for triggering Session Drummer 2. I inserted an audio track, plugged in a mic, clicked record, and started going "dum dum dum dum da-dum dum da-da-da-da-da-dum etc." (you get the idea).

The way pitch-to-MIDI works is decidedly easy. After you record the audio, you right-click on the audio clip and select V-Vocal > Create V-Vocal Clip, as shown in the first image. Then if you want to set up pitch range and amount of ticks between pitch bend events, you right-click on the V-Vocal Edit Window and call up Pitch-to-MIDI settings (we'll get into this a bit more later). Then, you drag the MIDI note icon (the bottom icon in the vertical toolbar shown in the left of the second image) into a MIDI track, and there's your converted clip.

But...it seems my "dums" weren't a consistent enough pitch (or actually no pitch at all), because the notes - while representing the correct rhythm - were all over the map, pitch-wise. This wasn't real good for triggering a kick drum, so before continuing, I had to figure out a way to transpose them all to the same pitch. Which brings us to a brief detour into...

[Anderton]

I first tried the transpose command, but there isn't a "transpose to a single note" option. Ditto the Transpose MIDI plug-in. So I figured that maybe the MIDI filter could be of some help.

Hey!! Wait a minute...I don't know where/when they sneaked this into the program, but somewhere along the line, the old MIDI filter became a powerful search-and-replace tool for MIDI data. I didn't see anything in the "What's New" portion of the documentation to indicate this was new to Sonar 7, so maybe it slipped into Sonar 6 and I didn't notice it. Whatever. In any event, go Process >Interpolate, and the Event Filter - Search screen appears, where I selected all notes at all velocities (first image). After clicking on OK, this screen turns into the Replace screen. Here, I specified that all notes be replaced with C3, while retaining velocity; see the second image.

This is huge, people. I'd seen Scott mention "Interpolate" and wasn't quite sure what he was talking about, but now I know. This is a wonderful feature that once again shows just how much better Sonar's MIDI implementation has become.

[Anderton]

This actually turned out to be pretty uneventful. All the notes turned into kick drums, and I thought that was pretty cool. There was no false triggering, and after a little judicious quantization, I had a vocally-generated kick drum part. While this was more about proof of concept than anything else, it got me thinking that this might be a very good way to do percussion parts with "finger drumming."

So I rested the mic on the table, and tried triggering with my fingers. This didn't work well at all; there were a lot of missed notes. I even tried gating and using Boost 11, but I guess "V-Vocal" is serious about seeing something at least vaguely vocally-oriented.

Then I tried singing the part with a "doo-doo-doo-doo"-type tonal sound. This worked much, much better; V-Vocal got confused only when I tried to do 16th notes, which I thought was because I couldn't articulate them clearly enough for V-Vocal to parse that they were separate notes. To check this, I slowed down the tempo and not only did V-Vocal translate my "mouth percussion part," it translated perfectly. Next time I need a conga part, I think I might sing it instead of play it.

[Anderton]

So I thought I'd try a bass part next, triggered from guitar. It worked reasonably well; the attached clip plays the unedited conversion from V-Vocal to MIDI clip for the first eight measures, then the edited version for the next eight. Editing basically involved removing about a half dozen short, false triggers - not bad, really. In fact, all these triggers were short enough that if I'd just told Sonar to remove all MIDI notes of less than a sixteenth-note duration, that would have pretty much done the job.

I also tried some lead guitar parts with lots of bending and nuance; V-Vocal couldn't really keep up, as when a note bent up to a new one, V-Vocal just assumed it was a new note. The pitch bending was kind of ragged too, as there were lots of little glitches. I tried tailoring the pitch bend data density using the Time Resolution parameter in the pitch-to-MIDI settings, but didn't have much better luck. I had much better results when playing straight chords on my Digital Les Paul, and sent each string to its own channel.

[Anderton]

So what's the bottom line? The V-Vocal pitch-to-MIDI function seems to work flat out best with (perhaps not surprisingly!) vocals. If you sing well and V-Vocal can track your vocals, it will translate that well into a MIDI part. Note, though, that making changes in V-Vocal (e.g., transposition, pitch correction) does not carry through if you convert the part to MIDI; only the original part gets converted.

Although my experiments with lead guitar weren't very successful, if I play cleanly (and of course, monophonically) and don't count on pitch bending, the results can be pretty good, as evidenced by the bass clip. Something like horn stabs would work well, if you were willing to build up a chord a line at a time. And I must say that doing drum parts with my voice worked well, once I figured out that V-Vocal wanted a tone, not just a burst of sound.

If you're looking for the ultimate pitch-to-MIDI converter, this isn't it. However, if you'll settle for converting voice parts to MIDI, this feature does the job much better than expected. I suspect it would work well on monophonic wind instruments as well, but I'm not a wind player, so perhaps someone else can weigh in on the subject.

The last point worth mentioning is that when V-Vocal was first introduced, it was a pretty squirrely little critter. Those days seem to be behind us; all the times I've used V-Vocal in Sonar 7 it has been stable and predictable.

BTW if anyone else has had either exceptionally good or exceptionally bad experiences with the pitch-to-MIDI function, let us know.

[Healing Spirit]

Although some of this thread is well above my current level of understanding, I have understood enough of it to:

1. Buy 7PE (Taking advantage of Cakewalk's generous competitive crossgrade offer)

2. Buy Scott's book. (It's now arrived... wow! Scott, what with writing such a massive tome, and authoring the Sound Forge book, when do you still find time to create music!)

So thanks guys, now the learning begins.

[Anderton]

If there are aspects that are "above your current level of understanding," you can bet it's the same for others. You're welcome to ask questions here, and don't forget that the Cakewalk Sonar forum is a great, and hospitable, source of information.

[Anderton]

Sonar now lets you burn audio CDs using a playlist-style interface, as shown in the first image. It's all quite straightforward: You add tracks, then move them up or down in the order, delete from the playlist if needed, then burn. When you hit the burn menu, it makes a CD, and keeps you advised of what percentage of blocks has been burned, as well as which track is currently being burned. The help information says that there's a test burn function that tests and verifies that the CD can be burned correctly, but I couldn't find that option. Nor did I see any verify option after the CD was burned, so I guess you either need to take it on faith that everything burned okay, or the program does it automatically in the background.

The CD burning facility is welcome, but what I'd really like to see is the ability to burn an audio CD directly from the track view, with a new type of marker added to the track view called something like "CD Track Marker." This would let you arrange songs within the track view, crossfade them, change their levels, add effects, whatever - then put a CD track marker in front of each one prior to burning. Basically, this would add capabilities to Sonar very much like Sony's CD Architect, but with more tracks. Also, as far as I can tell, there's no way to enter CD Text information. That would also be high on my list of priorities for the next update.

And while I'm making my wish list...why not create a "back up to CD/DVD" feature? You would call this up from within a project, and Sonar would take care of collecting all the files used in a project and burning them, along with the .CWP project, to your storage medium of choice.

So while the CD-burning capability is convenient to have, there's room for growth and beefing up this function would be a great addition to Sonar 8.

[ogeva]

Craig,
Did you (or anyone else) had a chance to try Waves GTR 3.0 in Sonar 7?
I cannot work it within the program at all, the GUI is simply stuck.
Disabling X-ray helped other plugins from Waves, but not GTR 3.0.

[Anderton]

I have not tried GTR 3.0 yet. Is it possible to try different versions, like DirectX vs. wrapped VST?

[garrigus]

So while the CD-burning capability is convenient to have, there's room for growth and beefing up this function would be a great addition to Sonar 8.

Hey Craig,

One other thing is that the SONAR CD burning feature only does TAO (Track-At-Once) burning. This is fine for test CDs, but DAO (Disk-At-Once) is more compatible with CD players and it's also required if you're going to send your disc out for duplication. So, unfortunately, users will still need a different program to do their final CD master discs. Cakewalk Pyro 5 does DAO, plus some of the things that Sony CD Architect does (though not everything).

Just a little extra info...

Scott

--
Scott R. Garrigus - Author of the Cakewalk Sonar and Sony Sound Forge Power book series. Get Sonar 7 Power & Sound Forge 8 Power - Today! Go to: http://www.garrigus.com/

Publisher of DigiFreq - free music technology newsletter. Win a free Absynth 3 or Kontakt 2 DVD Tutorial, go to: http://www.digifreq.com/digifreq/

Publisher of NewTechReview - free consumer technology newsletter. Win a free WWF Slam Cam digital camera, go to: http://www.newtechreview.com/newtechreview/

[garrigus]

2. Buy Scott's book. (It's now arrived... wow! Scott, what with writing such a massive tome, and authoring the Sound Forge book, when do you still find time to create music!)

So thanks guys, now the learning begins.

Thanks, Healing Spirit! Time is tight, but I always make time for music. :cool:

I hope you enjoy the book...

Scott

--
Scott R. Garrigus - Author of the Cakewalk Sonar and Sony Sound Forge Power book series. Get Sonar 7 Power & Sound Forge 8 Power - Today! Go to: http://www.garrigus.com/

Publisher of DigiFreq - free music technology newsletter. Win a free Absynth 3 or Kontakt 2 DVD Tutorial, go to: http://www.digifreq.com/digifreq/

Publisher of NewTechReview - free consumer technology newsletter. Win a free WWF Slam Cam digital camera, go to: http://www.newtechreview.com/newtechreview/

[Anderton]

Cakewalk Publisher is essentially an FTP wrapper that, according to the Sonar 7 help file, lets you "create a customized streaming music player with a playlist of your music, upload the player to your personal or band's web site, and embed it in any other web site. You can also update your playlist with album art, links (URLs), and artist, track, and album information.

"Publisher works by connecting to your web site host's FTP account and uploading files to a location of your choosing. Once these files are successfully transferred to your web site, Publisher generates a simple HTML tag that you can past into any other web site to embed and display your audio player. For those familiar with it, the process is similar to selecting images that are originally hosted on one web site and displaying them on a different web site."

While I'd love to tell my experiences with this part of the program, I'm going to have to excuse myself. Although I have a web site at www.craiganderton.com, I do not have the time to maintain or modify it (I have my hands full with the forums here!), so I don't even know how to access the thing. What I can do is provide a screen shot of the interface (which shows the Options menu for host configuration), and invite people who have used this to comment. I will say, however, that this is pretty tried-and-true technology at this point, and I think it's pretty safe to assume it works as advertised.

I took a look at the Cakewalk forum and the general reaction to Publisher seems to be "It's not easy to figure out, but when you do, it works and it's worth the effort." Comments from those who have used this feature would be highly welcome!

[Anderton]

First question: Why doesn't Microsoft Word have this? But I digress.

Ever had Sonar refuse to open a project? The "open in safe mode" concept from Sonar 5 could help by letting you bypass the loading of corrupt plug-ins or plug-ins that weren't on the system. File Recovery Mode replaces Safe Mode (and works the same way - hold down the Shift key when opening a project), and is intended to do everything Safe Mode did as well as recover files that have corruption to such a degree (hard disk issues, crash during file save, etc.) that Sonar thinks it's not a compatible Sonar file.

Once invoked, File Recovery Mode opens a file in Track View only, lets you enable plug-ins one at a time, ignores error-checking options that might prevent a file from loading, and skips over chunks of data that the program determines to be invalid. That's the good news. The bad news is that once the file is loaded, you have to check it over very carefully to see whether the fact that Sonar has given a pass to a lot of possible errors has caused any problems. For example, if data for a Track was corrupted, it might not be there. As a result, after recovering a file, you should really open a new file and copy the data from the recovered file into it. At that point, you can save the new file and work with it, knowing that whatever you've recovered is not corrupted (and the new file shouldn't be either).

[Anderton]

The RIFF WAV file format limits WAV file size to 2GB, which seems like a lot unless you're recording long files (like environmental sounds, interviews, live festivals) at high sample rates - remember, Sonar can go up to 192kHz. Sonar 7 supports Sony's Wave-64 format, which allows files sizes over 8 terabytes.

Does this matter? Well, at 192kHz, you can record 46 minutes of a 16-bit stereo WAV file...or over 3,000,000,000 days with a Sony Wave-64 file. That should take care of you.

At first, I thought this didn't really mean much as I don't record files that last more than, say, 100,000 days (kidding!! Really). However, in the past, I have been unable to save some .CWB bundle files and could never figure out why. Now I know: Because the sum total of all the WAV files in the file exceeded 2GB. With the Wave-64 support, Sonar will automatically convert those files to Wave-64 format so that the huge bundle can, in fact, be saved. What's really cool is that all this happens in the background. If fact, if you can start a project as a RIFF file but if it exceeds 2GB, Sonar will automatically switch over to the Wave-64 format. You can also save a file in the Wave-64 format, as seen in the attached image. The file then has a .W64 suffix.

Sonar 7 also supports additional file formats for import and export: NeXT/Sun (.AU and .SND), Sound Designer II (.SD2), and Core Audio Format (.CAF). Add this to .AIF, and I'm starting to think quite a few Mac fans are running Sonar under Boot Camp...hmm...also, Sonar and import and export FLAC (Free Lossless Audio Codec) format files, which compress files to some degree but without any loss or compromise in fidelity. Sonar can also export in .RAW format. If anyone ever uses this, let me know.

Another new import feature: You can preview what you're importing on any Sonar bus, as selected by a Preview Bus drop-down menu.

[Anderton]

We've covered the big features for Sonar 7, and it's getting to be time to present some conclusions. First, though, there are a ton of little features that may not be as glamorous, but can be extremely useful to some people (as well as being of no interest to others). So, let's do a brief discussion of the biggest of the little features.

Import audio or MIDI files by the Clips pane context menu. Right-click in a track where you want to import the file, and select MIDI or Audio, depending on the track type (see the attached image, which shows importing a MIDI file). This is faster than the previous method, which involved positioning the Now time where you wanted to import the file, selecting the track into which you wanted it imported, then going up to the file menu and choosing "Import" - although you can still use this approach if you want.

Additional MIDI features.[/I] We've covered the main ones in detail, but there are lots of other MIDI improvements that really put Sonar 7 into a class of its own with respect to MIDI editing. These include features like show/hide events in muted clips, the ability to do velocity edits while working with a different type of MIDI controller (before, you had to switch over to a velocity editing mode), selection-sensitive velocity drawing where velocity painting affects only notes that are selected, and several others, MIDI activity indicators and MIDI velocity meters for both track view and console view, and more.

[b]An "It's About Time" Synth Rack feature. I often have projects with several instances of Rapture (like 12 or so), which would appear in the Synth Rack as Rapture 1, Rapture 2, Rapture 3, Rapture 4, etc. - not very distinctive. Now, you can rename them.

An "It's About Time" track/bus feature. You can copy EQ settings from one track or bus to another. Why do I like this? Because a lot of times there will be an overdub on one track that's the same as an instrument on another track, and I didn't have the foresight to clone the track originally. It used to be that matching EQs on the two tracks meant an elaborate manual copying procedure, but no more.

Audible real-time bounce. This is great when you're using an external effect and want to tweak the effect's controls while bouncing. Basically, it disables the fast bounce option in favor of a real-time bounce process you can monitor or not, as you see fit.

Playback with no data. If you've ever wanted to trigger an external drum box as you started working on a project, then found that Sonar wouldn't play because it didn't have any data in its tracks, that's no longer a problem.

[Anderton]

When I write a Pro Review of software, I have two monitors in front of me. The one on the left connects to my music computer, and the one on the right, to my Powermac for writing the review itself, as well as connecting to the net for uploading the text, images, and audio examples (there's also a switch for the right monitor so I can have two monitors for the music computer as needed). So, the software being reviewed is always sitting in front of me, and I realized that since updating to V7.01, Sonar hasn't crashed - and it's gotten a lot of use. That's particularly impressive because doing a Pro Review isn't like just laying down tracks for a song; I'm trying different things, doing weird stuff like copying something a zillion times to load up on tracks, and of course, trying to find ways to "break" the program.

But back to the conclusions. First of all, Sonar is a flat-out excellent DAW. Sleek, stable, and versatile, it also represents excellent value, thanks to the bundled instruments and processors. It can handle just about any type of file, and is at home in a variety of musical styles - from multitrack emulation for recording a rock band, to digital audio editor-type editing for classical performances, to a loop-oriented approach for electronica. Couple that with the 64-bit audio engine (whether it helps the sound audibly is a subject of debate, but check out the Bit Meter Cakewalk includes - there's a lot going on in those least significant bits), and tight integration with both 32-bit and 64-bit operating systems, and you have a program that need make no excuses from a technical or artistic standpoint.

Whether Sonar 7 is a spectacular update to you or not depends on how much you use MIDI. There's no question the MIDI improvements are the star of this particular update; they make working with MIDI far smoother and more flexible. Some might argue that an improved MIDI implementation is long overdue for Sonar, but in typical Cakewalk fashion, they elected to make one giant leap that gave more than people expected. (This reminds me of how they did their surround update: They were among the last major DAWs to implement surround, but they came up with a superb implemention, including their Surround Bridge feature that meant you didn't have to invest in a whole new suite of surround plug-ins.) Let's not overlook the step sequencer, either; it's good for more than just programming drum parts, and the implementation is quite good.

And there are plenty of new instruments to go along with the improved MIDI, although I can't help but think that at some point, some users will look at Rapture LE and Dimension LE and either stop using them due to their limitations (no fine tuning? c'mon!) or spring for the full versions. Personally, I feel Rapture is one of the most interesting and useful soft synths to be released in quite some time; while I'm not sure you'd know that from the LE version, I think anyone who upgrades wouldn't be disappointed. I can't get quite as excited about Dimension, as there are already quite a few excellent competitive "workstation" programs. If you have one of these, you may not feel the need for a full-blown Dimension. But Rapture is unique.

So is the z3ta+, though, and it is a full version with much to offer. It's a clever and efficient little synth with a unique sound and plenty of programmability for those who like to tweak. DropZone is a nice addition too, as it can do some things that even more expensive samplers can't do. Don't uninstall Kontakt or anything, but don't overlook DropZone, either.

As to the audio plug-ins, Boost 11 is one of those plug-ins that as long as you don't abuse, it you'll never think about it once you dial in the settings you like. The linear phase EQ and multiband compressor are sweet, although misunderstood - a lot of people don't quite seem to get that you can't put one of these on each track. They're for bus insertions and mastering, which of course, also indicates (along with the publishing and CD burning options) where Cakewalk is heading with the program. Actually, the CD burning is a bit of a disappointment; it doesn't do much more than you can do with the Windows CD burner, which you have by definition if you're running Cakewalk on Windows. I would really like to see it become an alternative to CD Architect, which is a great program with one flaw: No ASIO support.

And before we move away from signal processors, the sidechaining feature is great, and much remains to be mined from it. The importance of this is dimished somewhat by the fact that other programs have implemented sidechaining as well - this is not a "Sonar-only" thing. But play with it for a while, and you'll be glad it's part of the program. Very glad, in fact.

Some of the features of Sonar 6 are now more mature. ACT is more together, and the colorization options have taken a step forward. AudioSnap has benefited from some updates as well. Furthermore, despite the negative buzz around Vista (which I don't feel is justified, but that's another subject), Sonar lives happily in a 64-bit world. Very happily, as a matter of fact, and I'm glad that this review dragged me into Vista world - I like it. I just wish the rest of the world would catch up. However, because Sonar 7 has so many instruments and plug-ins, you can boot into Vista-64, never leave Sonar, and still get done what you need to do.

So should you upgrade? If you're running Sonar 5, yes. The cumulative changes in 6 and 7 add up to a huge increase in functionality (not big, huge). If you're happy with Sonar 6, don't use MIDI a lot, already have the soft synths you need, and don't need "mastering" EQ and compression, Sonar 7 isn't that compelling an upgrade; you'll probably want to wait until Sonar 8 (although to be fair, several of the smaller tweaks might be enough to justify the upgrade cost by themselves, depending on your needs and workflow). However, Cakewalk's upgrade offers are pretty decent. I think it highly likely that after upgrading, a dedicated Sonar user would feel it was worth the bucks.

All in all, I would describe this update as what happens to a sculpture during its final phases of creation: The shape is basically the same, but now it's polished to a higher luster, and put in a place in the gallery where the pin spots shine on it just right. Sure, there's still room for improvement in Sonar 8: In addition to overcoming the CD-burning limitations, I'd like to see a better sampler, a drum machine that goes beyond Session Drummer 2, more MIDI effects (not just a velocity compressor/expander but also a resurrection of some of those great CAL routines that seem to have gotten lost along the way), and some algorithmic composition options - the first Session Drummer MIDI plug-in was on to something. While I understand why they went to Session Drummer 2, it would be nice to pursue the original Session Drummer concept as well, and extend it to bass and other parts.

Finally, I think Cakewalk should check out the various freebie amp guitar sims out there, pick the best one, give the developer some bucks to take it to the next level, and include it with Sonar. Then you really would have "one-stop shopping."

But the bottom line is that Sonar is a great program, and version 7 is just that much better. While it's not the mind-boggling upgrade delta that happened between 5 and 6, those types of upgrades don't come along very often. What we have is a mature program that is more stable, more accessorized, and has a better workflow than ever. Sonar fans will not be disappointed; those thinking of switching to Sonar now have a very compelling set of reasons to do so.

[Anderton]

This concludes my formal "review," but of course, the thread will remain open so that you can make additional comments, ask questions, etc. Also, I believe a 7.02 update isn't too far away, so we'll see what that's about if/when it happens.

I'd like to thank Scott Garrigus for contributing his expertise (hey, I'm sure this sold some books for ya!) and Alex Westner at Cakewalk for participating in the thread. It's always a bit of a risk for a manufacturer to get involved in a Pro Review, but this one turned out to be pretty benign -- seems there are a lot of happy Sonar owners out there.

[Columbian]

Here's a quickie compression option for 2:1 compression:

1. Divide all values by 2.
2. Add 64 to all values.

Anderton.

That is a very cute trick, though I'm finding I like to add, maybe 50, instead of 64. Leaves a little headroom and doesn't always trigger the highest-velocity sample in the patch, or pin the max-velocity timbral change. But I'm still impressed with the mathematical approach. how did you come up with that?

BTW, do you have any tips on audio snap? Seems like a great idea, but maybe is trickier than it looks...?

[Anderton]

Anderton.

That is a very cute trick, though I'm finding I like to add, maybe 50, instead of 64. Leaves a little headroom and doesn't always trigger the highest-velocity sample in the patch, or pin the max-velocity timbral change. But I'm still impressed with the mathematical approach. how did you come up with that?

That's a trick I've been using since the days of Master Tracks Pro on the Mac Plus. I don't remember exactly how I came up with it, but I do remember I realized that you could do "limiting" simply by adding a constant. From there it was a short step to thinking about how I could apply the same principle to compression and expansion.

BTW, do you have any tips on audio snap? Seems like a great idea, but maybe is trickier than it looks...?

There's a lot of material about AudioSnap in the Sonar 6 Pro Review, it's almost more like a tutorial than a review.

[HKSblade1]

Any plans to add Impulse Response? this seems to be gaining ground in VST's and DAW

[garrigus]

I'd like to thank Scott Garrigus for contributing his expertise (hey, I'm sure this sold some books for ya!)

Thanks, Craig! I'm glad I could help... and thanks for letting spread the word about the book. :cool:

By the way, you mentioned Cakewalk Publisher earlier. That feature somehow got overlooked in the book, but to make up for it I'll be publishing an article over at DigiFreq. I'll drop another note here as soon as the article is ready and it should clear up some of the confusion for other people trying to use that feature.

Scott

--
Scott R. Garrigus - Author of the Cakewalk Sonar and Sony Sound Forge Power book series. Get Sonar 7 Power & Sound Forge 8 Power - Today! Go to: http://www.garrigus.com/

Publisher of DigiFreq - free music technology newsletter. Win a free Absynth 3 or Kontakt 2 DVD Tutorial, go to: http://www.digifreq.com/digifreq/

Publisher of NewTechReview - free consumer technology newsletter. Win a free WWF Slam Cam digital camera, go to: http://www.newtechreview.com/newtechreview/

[garrigus]

Anderton.
BTW, do you have any tips on audio snap? Seems like a great idea, but maybe is trickier than it looks...?

You can also check out this article for some info...

* Using the Cakewalk Sonar AudioSnap Feature
http://www.digifreq.com/digifreq/article.asp?ID=68

Scott

--
Scott R. Garrigus - Author of the Cakewalk Sonar and Sony Sound Forge Power book series. Get Sonar 7 Power & Sound Forge 8 Power - Today! Go to: http://www.garrigus.com/

Publisher of DigiFreq - free music technology newsletter. Win a free Absynth 3 or Kontakt 2 DVD Tutorial, go to: http://www.digifreq.com/digifreq/

Publisher of NewTechReview - free consumer technology newsletter. Win a free WWF Slam Cam digital camera, go to: http://www.newtechreview.com/newtechreview/

[garrigus]

Any plans to add Impulse Response? this seems to be gaining ground in VST's and DAW

Cakewalk includes the Perfect Space Convolution Reverb effect with which you can load IR files and apply them to your audio data.

Scott

--
Scott R. Garrigus - Author of the Cakewalk Sonar and Sony Sound Forge Power book series. Get Sonar 7 Power & Sound Forge 8 Power - Today! Go to: http://www.garrigus.com/

Publisher of DigiFreq - free music technology newsletter. Win a free Absynth 3 or Kontakt 2 DVD Tutorial, go to: http://www.digifreq.com/digifreq/

Publisher of NewTechReview - free consumer technology newsletter. Win a free WWF Slam Cam digital camera, go to: http://www.newtechreview.com/newtechreview/

[Anderton]

Any plans to add Impulse Response? this seems to be gaining ground in VST's and DAW

Sonar added a convolution reverb in Sonar 6. It's a very worthwhile addition, I believe it's based on the Voxengo reverb.

[Columbian]

andereton:

thanks for that. but I gotta ask: is there a feature in Sonar7 where I can take an audio or MIDI clip and use its feel as the basis for quantizing other performances? Like if I have a funky sixteenth-note kind of guitar clip where the 16s aren't really on the normal grid locations, can i tell Sonar to set up the timing grid for the whole rest of the project so I can quantize to that?

thanks again, man. I'll sheck out your Sonar 6 review.

[Anderton]

andereton:

thanks for that. but I gotta ask: is there a feature in Sonar7 where I can take an audio or MIDI clip and use its feel as the basis for quantizing other performances?

There are actually a couple ways you can do that. If you want to extract a "groove" from audio and apply it to audio, AudioSnap will do the job. If you want to apply a groove from an audio clip and apply it to MIDI, there's a feature for creating "groove templates" that can become part of your quantization options.

The one thing you can't do easily is transfer feel from a MIDI clip to audio. But I've used a workaround: Line up the MIDI track (using the inline PRV view) to the audio, and use AudioSnap to align audio to MIDI notes visually.

[rcorujo]

Hello,

I just bought SONAR 7 and am very pleases so far. Does anyone know if there are any plugins for the "Audio Effects" which will change your voice to sound like a different person, but not robotic? If possible, I'd like to make my voice sound like a female for background vocals.

Thank you.

Rigoberto

[Anderton]

You can Antares AVOX package. It has a program that can synthesize various voice characteristics. I haven't tried it for female vocals, although I believe that's something it can do...I use it mostly for a "crusty old blues guy" effect.

[Xichael]

Great review! I wish they could all be so interactive...

I'm new to music production and have been reading (to no end) about all the different DAW options. I've more or less narrowed it down to Sonar and Ableton Live. Seeing as you are an experienced user of both, how do you feel Live compares with Sonar for use in production? I'm anticipating recording and editing plenty of both audio and MIDI in the creation of an electronic/jazz/world fusion sound. I'm leaning more toward Live for its intuitive, uncluttered interface and integration with live performance, but toward Sonar for its more complete feature set. Assuming Live will eventually catch up with Sonar's functionality, and considering the effort required to learn/relearn to use such complex software - based on your experience with the the workflow and overall design of each program, if you were just starting out, which would you choose?

I know this type of question can be a tough one, with too many variables to properly answer, but any insight coming from an expert such as yourself will be invaluably helpful. I just can't wait to end my (re)search and start making music!

[Columbian]

What a great source of info this forum is turning out to be.

I'm going to push my luck and ask where I can find a good tutorial on mastering:

basic goals
use of compressor and /or limiter and what kind to use
Use of EQ
other tools or techniques

and, most confusingly,

LFE/subwoofer practices and procedures

I know this is asking a LOT, but I think you guys are a good place to start.

[garrigus]

I'm going to push my luck and ask where I can find a good tutorial on mastering:


Check out this book:

* Mastering Audio: The Art and the Science
http://www.digifreq.com/digifreq/newsinfo.asp?NewsID=3071

Scott

--
Scott R. Garrigus - Author of the Cakewalk Sonar and Sony Sound Forge Power book series. Get Sonar 7 Power & Sound Forge 8 Power - Today! Go to: http://www.garrigus.com/

Publisher of DigiFreq - free music technology newsletter. Win a free Cakewalk Loops Drumatic drum loops collection, go to: http://www.digifreq.com/digifreq/

Publisher of NewTechReview - free consumer technology newsletter. Win a free WWF Slam Cam digital camera, go to: http://www.newtechreview.com/newtechreview/

[Columbian]

[QUOTE=Anderton;25558418]There are actually a couple ways you can do that. If you want to extract a "groove" from audio and apply it to audio, AudioSnap will do the job. If you want to apply a groove from an audio clip and apply it to MIDI, there's a feature for creating "groove templates" that can become part of your quantization options.

this sounds like it's what I'm looking for. But I can't fine "Groove Template" in the help file. where do i read about this?

Thanks again

[Columbian]

Thanks scott. I will. do you know if it covers setting studio subwoofer level?

[garrigus]

Thanks scott. I will. do you know if it covers setting studio subwoofer level?

Yes, it has an entire chapter on monitor calibration including the subwoofer.

Scott

--
Scott R. Garrigus - Author of the Cakewalk Sonar and Sony Sound Forge Power book series. Get Sonar 7 Power & Sound Forge 8 Power - Today! Go to: http://www.garrigus.com/

Publisher of DigiFreq - free music technology newsletter. Win a free Cakewalk Loops Drumatic drum loops collection, go to: http://www.digifreq.com/digifreq/

Publisher of NewTechReview - free consumer technology newsletter. Win a free WWF Slam Cam digital camera, go to: http://www.newtechreview.com/newtechreview/

[rcorujo]

Hi Craig,

Merry Christmas. Thanks for recommending Antares AVOX for vocal processing. I went to their web site and it looks exactly like what I need. For a price of around $500 it seems well worth it. However, the System Requirements say "Windows XP". I have Windows Vista and was wondering whether they mean that "Windows XP" is the minimum requirement or whether it will ONLY work on "Windows XP".

Does anyone know if this software will work properly with Windows Vista?

Thank you.

Rigoberto

[Anderton]

Does anyone know if this software will work properly with Windows Vista?



I suggest you contact Anatares as that sort of thing is always subject to change without notice :) I would think the answer is yes, but you had best contact them for the definitive response.

[Anderton]

[QUOTE=Anderton;25558418]There are actually a couple ways you can do that. If you want to extract a "groove" from audio and apply it to audio, AudioSnap will do the job. If you want to apply a groove from an audio clip and apply it to MIDI, there's a feature for creating "groove templates" that can become part of your quantization options.

this sounds like it's what I'm looking for. But I can't fine "Groove Template" in the help file. where do i read about this?

Thanks again

Sorry, look under "groove Quantize." Do a search in the help file under quantize, and you'll see groove quantize in there.

[Columbian]

I swear, I have more trouble finding stuff in the Sonar Help files...

But I aint gonna complain. with your recommendation, I dug and dug and finally found what I've been looking for--a tan, long-legged, blond....no, wait. Wrong forum. sorry.

I found our how to put those audio snap markers into a clip, push them around so they line up with the hits, and then save the clip (or whatever really gets saved...?) as a groove template. Zingo! I put up a bernard Purdie loop I got a while ago, did all the snapping etc, then played a simple bass line with it--Pretty sloppy and sounding like crap. But when I quantized it to the groove I'd sucked off the Purdie groove, it put the bass notes RIGHT on top of the drum hits and it sounded like a hot, tight rhythm section. Used to be, I'd have to show both tracks in the piano roll and push notes around one at a time. BIG pita. this is great. It's a little tedious making and saving the groove, but man, does it save time and make good music on the back side.

thanks again for pointing me right.

One thing still eludes me big time: what exactly is the "pool"? and where is it? and how big is it? and what all is in it, and how long does it stay there? Can I get an infection from it?

It almost sounds like the regular clipboard, but Cakewalk wouldn't make up a new name for something, just to confuse us. Would it?

anyway, thanks again. Merry Christmas. Happy new year.

[Anderton]

One thing still eludes me big time: what exactly is the "pool"? and where is it? and how big is it? and what all is in it, and how long does it stay there? Can I get an infection from it?

It almost sounds like the regular clipboard, but Cakewalk wouldn't make up a new name for something, just to confuse us. Would it?

Actually you can think of the "pool" as a pool of transients. I think (not sure, though, so don't quote me) that Cubase also uses this term for a collection of audio clips. It might be a situation where Cakewalk choose the closest existing term rather than invent a new one.

[Anderton]

FYI - I've been editing a classical harpsichord album, working at 96kHz/24-bit with the 64-bit Sonar engine. I must say Sonar 7 has not crashed once, and in terms of putting together pieces of different performances to create a composite performance, the auto crossfades and markers have been great. I've also used the LP EQ to get rid of a nasty "bump" at 50Hz caused by (it seems) resonances within the body of the harpsichord. This is my second major project since upgrading to Sonar 7, and it's been a real workhorse.

I also came up with a nice color scheme I might post here when it's complete...it uses lots of blues and grays, with the intention of being as easy on the eyes as possible over long periods of time.

[rcorujo]

Hello,

I wrote a song that I would like to be sung in a particular key but since I'm not that great a singer and can't hit those high notes, I sound like Peter Brady singing "When it's time to change".

I was thinking about transposing my MIDI notes to a lower key and slowing down the tempo and then increasing the tempo after the vocals have been recorded to get them to a higher key. However, speeding up the tempo only speeds up the MIDI part but not the audio part.

Does SONAR 7 have any options that will help me with what I want to accomplish?

Thank you.

Rigoberto

[Anderton]

You can use V-Vocal to change the pitch of your voice. There are also pitch-stretching algorithms, but V-Vocal is optimized for voice. For example, I've used it to generate a harmony from a lead vocal.

[rcorujo]

Thanks Craig,

I had fooled around with V-Vocal but it made the voice sound kinda robotic. Perhaps I just didn't know what I was doing. I'll take a look at the V-Vocal videos on youtube and see if I can figure out where I'm going wrong.

Rigoberto

[Anderton]

Check the formant options. The natural tendency of any pitch transposing software is to sound robotic, so you need to work on it to make it sound natural.

[804Jazz]

Maybe u covered this earlier; if so please forgive me for asking again.. What virtual instruments other than those included with Sonar 7 are known to have GOOD x64 compatibility and drivers? Thanks

[Anderton]

When running Vista-64, I mostly use what comes with Sonar although I do know that GigaStudio 4 works well in a true 64-bit environment. Can anyone else chime in with an answer?

[Paul G]

Sonar added a convolution reverb in Sonar 6. It's a very worthwhile addition, I believe it's based on the Voxengo reverb.
It was Sonar 5. I remember because I had just bought Pristine Space Lt from Voxengo before I upgraded. :lol:

I really appreciate this review, Craig. What's your take on the File Versioning feature? Thanks.

Paul:D

[regular guy]

When running Vista-64, I mostly use what comes with Sonar although I do know that GigaStudio 4 works well in a true 64-bit environment. Can anyone else chime in with an answer?

So it will work with Vista? At last something that works on Vista!!!

[804Jazz]

Craig another question... What else can I do to optmize the new laptop... would a 7200 rpm internal drive give significant better performance over the 5400 Serial ATA drive that came with the HP Laptop???

My system is an HP DV6000 series AMD TL-64 2.2ghz running Vista Ultimate 64bit (1 week old) Sonar 7 Producer 64 bit install..

I'm switching the SODIMMS from 2 1-GIG DIMMS to 2 2GIG DIMMS this week. Which will take it to 4 - GIGs which I think is max for the motherboard? If there is anyway to step up higher than 4GIGs I'd like to know...

The question again is: Should I upgrade the HD to a 7200 rpm HD? I have a 320 gig Freeagent that I can use as an external. I also saw a pcexpress card with 2 firewire 800 ports... Should I consider getting the PC express Firewire 800 and hooking up a superfast Firewire 800 drive.

I am eventually hoping to move totally away from the three Dell desktops that I've used the last few years to make my latest CD's. I've been telling people that with the power of the new dual core laptops the day of the desktop's demise is soon at hand.... Am I crazy?

I'm running SONAR 7 in 64 bit mode but have not really stressed it yet until I upgrade from 2gig Ram to 4gig....

Tell me what you recommend to maximize this Laptop configuration...

Anyone else who can help me take this Laptop to the next level I would love to hear from you also.... thanks

[Anderton]

So it will work with Vista? At last something that works on Vista!!!

Sonar 7 works really well with 64-bit Vista. Once I got suitable 64-bit drivers (for the PreSonus FireBox), it was smooth sailing.

[Anderton]

Craig another question... What else can I do to optmize the new laptop... would a 7200 rpm internal drive give significant better performance over the 5400 Serial ATA drive that came with the HP Laptop???


I think you'll find the extra memory makes a huge difference. Are you running XP or Vista 32-bit or Vista-64? I believe there are issues with trying to address more than 2GB of RAM with a 32-bit OS but I'll let the computer experts weigh in on that. I know there's some kind of mod that allows the OS to see over 3GB of RAM, however the memory limitation of 32-bit addressing is one of the main reasons that operating systems have evolved to 64 bits.

As to the hard drive, it all depends on which program you use, how many tracks you need to stream, do you plan to use samplers that stream long samples from a hard drive, etc. 5400 is on the low end of the scale for disk performance, you'd be better off with a 7200 RPM internal drive or even a fast external drive.

[garrigus]

Windows 32-bit can address up to 4GB, but each application run can only address up to 2GB unless you apply the /3GB switch. It's really not necessary though unless you're running some memory hungry soft samplers... even then you probably won't need it because most samplers do disk streaming now.

You probably don't need to replace the internal drive, but a fast external drive is definitely necessary for storing your project files and audio data separate from Windows and Sonar.

Scott

--
Scott R. Garrigus - Author of the Cakewalk Sonar and Sony Sound Forge Power book series. Get Sonar 7 Power & Sound Forge 8 Power - Today! Go to: http://www.garrigus.com/

Publisher of DigiFreq - free music technology newsletter. Win a free Cakewalk Loops Drumatic drum loops collection, go to: http://www.digifreq.com/digifreq/

Publisher of NewTechReview - free consumer technology newsletter. Win a free WWF Slam Cam digital camera, go to: http://www.newtechreview.com/newtechreview/

[garrigus]

Yep, most of the plug-ins will run under Vista (unless there are compatibility issues), but they will run as 32-bit apps. You need apps that are specifically written for 64-bit to run as 64-bit in XP64 or Vista64. Unfortunately, there aren't many out there yet. East West is coming on strong in this area though with their new Play libraries, which have been optimized for 64-bit...

EastWest PLAY Products: http://www.digifreq.com/digifreq/bloginfo.asp?ID=674

Scott

--
Scott R. Garrigus - Author of the Cakewalk Sonar and Sony Sound Forge Power book series. Get Sonar 7 Power & Sound Forge 8 Power - Today! Go to: http://www.garrigus.com/

Publisher of DigiFreq - free music technology newsletter. Win a free Cakewalk Loops Drumatic drum loops collection, go to: http://www.digifreq.com/digifreq/

Publisher of NewTechReview - free consumer technology newsletter. Win a free WWF Slam Cam digital camera, go to: http://www.newtechreview.com/newtechreview/

[awinn002]

can someone please explain to me the differences with the audiosnap feature between the studio edition and the producer edition. I am aware that both versions have the audiosnap feature but the producer edition has other options not available on the SE.

[804Jazz]

Thanks Scott and Craig... I'm running Vista Ultimate x64.. I do need plug in FXs probably more than Soft Synths... Scott you say the 4 gig won't give me alot of improvement?

Did you say External 7200 drive or a firewire 800 drive?