Shafted by the band!!

[billiam]

I just read about what people were making for gigs on the bass forum, and I was wondering what I should be getting for what I do. Here's the deal, I am the bass player and I own the PA. There are four other members in the band. We usually split the money evenly when we do play out. I know I'm getting shafted, but everyone always bitches when it comes to money. I have five thousand into PA and another three or so into my various bass gear. I want to call the PA another band member and get that cut too, I got an earfu!! Then I said, "Well, we can rent a lame PA for $100, so at least give me that!!" No way!! The people who complain the most are 1.The lead singer who owns a mike and 2.The rest who spend their money on dope and beer and cancer. They also argue that they have money into their guitar, amp etc. It's a no win with them, what should I do??!! I'm always the bad guy when I bring this up and the others can't see past their paltry B.S.

[bassknave]

Depends on how bad you want to play with these guys. IIWY, I'd walk, and let them see what it's like with no PA. The resentment will pull the band apart eventually, anyway--and with the next band you form, you can work outthe deal on the front end. If I didn't get bux and bennies for my rig (over $25K in it), I wouldn't be playing with these guys.

Phil

[Skid Devlin]

Interesting subject. I'm the bass player and singer of 99% of the songs and I own the PA too. Mine is only a Mackie 808S powered mixer and EON 15"mains. (The guitarist just bought the monitors off me for $200). I don't mind because the other member's do a huge part of the marketing and get all the job's and the people out to the shows. Besides, I'm the singer.

In your case, I'd demand a cut for the PA or walk. Sounds like your with cheapskates and with a PA, can easily find others.

Oh, by the way, stay away from dopers and you'll find that the new memberswill think a little more rationally and will be happy to contribute to the till.

LOL.

[Sir H C]

Well, I would "Take it in for repair" when a gig is coming up and say it isn't around we will have to rent. Do that a couple times and either they will see the light or walk. Honestly, it doesn't matter how much each of you has in your individual equipment, that is your decision to buy or not but the PA is for everyone (especially the singer) and so everyone should pay. I have to admit you are being used.

[flanc]

The whole concept of how the band gets paid can be the end of a good band. Personally, I like laying it all out up front and not having any surprises. Certainly, beyond a small club, the PA is to reinforce the entire band and it wouldn't be fair for one member to purchase and maintain it. There are other band chores like marketing/booking, music direction etc. that may take time over and above what the a lesser member has to put in, if all he does is show up to practice and gigs. In our band, I own and run the PA, along with being the male lead and rhythm guitarist. I take an extra cut of the gross for the PA; it's only a partial cut, but it takes care of routine maintenance and then some. Other members get extra percentages for handling the marketing/booking. It works for us!

Even if everyone has a good day job and no one is playing "for the money", everyone cares what their perceived value is too the band relative to the other members. I've been in bands that nearly melted down because we paid a light man/roady $100 (he got $100 every gig-no more, no less) and the singer got less on a night where we accepted a crappy paying gig. Now she didn't need the money; and she agreed to pay the light guy (and roadie) $100 a gig; and she agreed to take this low paying gig; but, it hurt her to the core that she practiced for free and invested in microphones and showed up and performed for less money that our paid help. We kinda saw her point, but thought she should have broke out the calculator before agreeing to set his fee at $100 or before she agreed to take a gig that would result in her making less. Bottom line...there can be a lot of drama and everyone has an opinion on their worth and it can make a fun band, not so fun!

[5slinger]

Well,
Like Phil said and Terry (Flanc I like your suggestion too. Sometimes ya gotta play hardball)here's what I do.
I play bass and own the PA/mics/monitors etc. When we play gigs I take 15% before taxes etc off the top for equipment maintenence (ie $350 a night = roughly $55.00)I own everything except the drums and guitar players amps (even own a couple of the guitars). We then have decided on 10% for band trans and recording = 35.00. We then split 4 ways equally. If they don't like it play hardball and tell them to rent a system. Three nighter for what I have is about 400.000 to 500.00. The 55.00 is way cheaper.
We also practice at my studio so I pay the electric and insurance. If they can't handle it, like Phil says DUMP there ASSES!!!
You need to lay this kind of stuff out front so there is no latitude or interpretation problems later on. Also ask them what happens when a piece of your gear goes down? They gonna chip in on the repair/replacement?
Doubt it. Stand up for yourself and tell them that's how it is.
And BTW tell your singer to shove his "mic" up his dorsal. When you count your gear in it all equals out. A decent bass rig cost at least or more than a FKN Marshall or Line 6 rig. Plus ever wonder why good basses cost more than good guitars. The only legitimate bitch anyone would have is the drummer. Mine has a kit that cost about 3900.00.

CJ

[This message has been edited by 5slinger (edited March 22, 2002).]

[J the D]

Guys:

In my day job I am a CPA with my own accounting practice. What is happening here is common in any enterprise where things are not worked out in advance. In a band you are a member of a partnership in a business enterprise. Having a written partnerhip (or band) agreement only means everyone knows exactly how things are going to happen. It has to be written for two reasons:

1) If it is not written down "I never said that!" Written agreements keep agreements from being too variable. Some people like things to change each time you talk with them. I don't. Write it down. If it is not written down it never happened. If it is written down it doesn't change from day to day.

2) You will tend to agree to appropriate, fair and friendly terms for dissolution if you decide on them while you are still friends. If you wait to determine how to break up until you do break up it is everyman for himself in the jungle. Decide on things like who gets the name, rights to publishing or for the band to continue the use of music and material written by someone who is leaving the band.

Nobody invests several thousands dollars into an interprise (like buying PA equipment for a band) and does not expect a reasonable return on that investment. If you know anyone that doesn't think this way please introduce me to them because I have just the deal for them down here in Florida. Something to do with swamps and allogators I think.

Like was said before, you have let them mooch off you and that has become the expectation. It is not fair to you but you have not worried about it yet so why worry now, right? Wrong. Points in talking with the band:

1) The PA costs $x per night or rent a system from someone else. Your price should be attractive for both you and for the band. Like Terry said that is only fair. Anyone that has a problem with this is probably not someone who you wnat to be in business (or a band) with.

2) You will not charge them for the previous use of the PA which would amount to $x,xxx.

3) You want to address other issues in the band and reduce things to writing so there are no problems later. Reason for wanting it written down is so that everyone sees what is being done which will promote and enhance the long term harmony and success of the band.

If they don't agree to that you have to decide just how bad do you want to play with these guys. YMMV.

[5slinger]

J the D,
A FKN MEN!!!!!!!!

CJ

[byrnes]

what kind of band relationship do you have? Are you all just out for the money, or is it more of a collective bond hippie-style arrangement?

[tlbonehead]

I own pretty much all of our PA gear,maybe $10,000-12,000 invested since some was bought used. Small/medium sized club system w/about 3500 watts on subs and 1400 on mid/highs. I also own and pay insurance,etc on the vehicle to transport it to the gigs. I usually take 10% off the top for that.(doesn't cover it,but it helps)So I usually get $45-60 extra per gig. Personally,I think you are asking for way too much,but that's not my call.

[billiam]

Thanks very much on the input on handling these matters. I'm pretty laid back, but enough is enough. The band started out in fun and people actually said, "We don't care about the money! We make enough at our day job." Well, come first paid gig, "friends" of the band ordered food and drinks, courtesy of the band. The $300 we were supposed to get went down to maybe $100 and the singer and his girlfriend, the keyboard player, pocketed that because they "got" the gig. HELL, WHERE'S MY $20??!! The band has touchy personalities, so maybe the trick about my "broken rig" will learn them. Or I could be a man and tell them the deal. Some of the members will agree with me and some not.
I don't compensate my bass abilities by purchasing gear. I like twiddling knobs and such. Some take it to be a power struggle, i.e. "If we get gear then we have control!!" Not to toot my own horn, but I feel I hold this whole freakin' thing together and I definitely do them a service, s***, I even have to set up some of their amps!!. Luckily I'm in another band of people who are definitely a step above and much more professional, they keep me running home to practice!!

[5slinger]

Hey TBL,
Yea gotta agree the kid should do like above and take a reasonable share.
As far as "hippy relationship vs for the bucks" the difference is YUPPIES.
Hipies turned into money grubbin' me first types. At least with business dicks you get it upfront.

CJ

[fuel truck]

Hey Billiam where in Vermont are you located? My situation is exactly the same except I play rythem and lead guitar. If you cant solve the problem with your current band we should talk!

[tlbonehead]

Originally posted by 5slinger:
Hey TBL,
Yea gotta agree the kid should do like above and take a reasonable share.
As far as "hippy relationship vs for the bucks" the difference is YUPPIES.
Hipies turned into money grubbin' me first types. At least with business dicks you get it upfront.

CJNobody cares about the money until they get a little smell of it. Everything changes then. But ya,he definitely should get something for it and they're being pricks for not realizing that.

[Stingray5]

Originally posted by billiam:
I just read about what people were making for gigs on the bass forum, and I was wondering what I should be getting for what I do. Here's the deal, I am the bass player and I own the PA. There are four other members in the band. We usually split the money evenly when we do play out. I know I'm getting shafted, but everyone always bitches when it comes to money. I have five thousand into PA and another three or so into my various bass gear. I want to call the PA another band member and get that cut too, I got an earfu!! Then I said, "Well, we can rent a lame PA for $100, so at least give me that!!" No way!! The people who complain the most are 1.The lead singer who owns a mike and 2.The rest who spend their money on dope and beer and cancer. They also argue that they have money into their guitar, amp etc. It's a no win with them, what should I do??!! I'm always the bad guy when I bring this up and the others can't see past their paltry B.S.And I suppose, the same ones that complain about the money, sit there and watch while you set up the sound equiptment, and probably don't help tear down the equipment either. When it comes to PA I have ment more people with bad backs than, I care to know. Just tell them like it is,and if they don't like it, base players are hard to find, anyway, it'll be their loss! Denny

[Stingray5]

Originally posted by Stingray5:
Originally posted by billiam:
I just read about what people were making for gigs on the bass forum, and I was wondering what I should be getting for what I do. Here's the deal, I am the bass player and I own the PA. There are four other members in the band. We usually split the money evenly when we do play out. I know I'm getting shafted, but everyone always bitches when it comes to money. I have five thousand into PA and another three or so into my various bass gear. I want to call the PA another band member and get that cut too, I got an earfu!! Then I said, "Well, we can rent a lame PA for $100, so at least give me that!!" No way!! The people who complain the most are 1.The lead singer who owns a mike and 2.The rest who spend their money on dope and beer and cancer. They also argue that they have money into their guitar, amp etc. It's a no win with them, what should I do??!! I'm always the bad guy when I bring this up and the others can't see past their paltry B.S.And I suppose, the same ones that complain about the money, sit there and watch while you set up the sound equiptment, and probably don't help tear down the equipment either. When it comes to PA I have ment more people with bad backs than, I care to know. Just tell them like it is,and if they don't like it, base players are hard to find, anyway, it'll be their loss! Denny I mean Bass players not base oopsss

[thunderpaw]

Just spotted the trend. Bass player. Owns PA. Humps the gear. Does all the techie s##t.
Yup. It fits. But I'm the one with the "bad back" and even our female vocalist can park her chin on my head! All seriousness aside, I buy equipment because, along with tools, they're my adult "toys" now that I have given up airplanes and motorcycles. Our band is really good about toting, setting up, striking and packing. We all have chores we do to make each other's lives easier and do them without being asked. I feel lucky because there is nary an "ego" to be found amongst us all. It's an egalitarian setup-we all are open to learn from each other and if not welcome, at least accept graciously feedback that what we just played, well, sucked. We all have other friends in local bands where there is continual friction and see how that can destroy the group. For some reason, and I think I'm the only one in the band that grasps it, we make far better money playing in the "boonies" than we do in the "city". It's more laid back and the crowd is more appreciative that we are there and they don't have to drive as far. In the city (we have two universities and a community college) there are always bands that will play for beer and bar owners more than happy to oblige. In their defense, the young musicians are actually very good...it's just that there are too bloody many of them willing to play for next to nothing. Ah. Carrabelle, FL...a quaint little drinking village with a fishing problem...
My apologies for the ramble...the Guiness is particularly fresh tonight!

Kim

[This message has been edited by thunderpaw (edited March 22, 2002).]

[billiam]

Thanks again for the support and comments. I'm not offended by anything you said MrKnobs, but you do pose a valid point. I know of a drummer who is definitely good, but his personality is ZERO. He bought tons of goodies, but no one wants to play with an A-Hole. BYRNES, the bond among the members is made of smoke and beer, but I am in it to play music not hang out and kill brain cells. I can do that in the comfort of my own home!! The band I'm in plays too many Dead tunes and has this "We are SO COOL" attitude. Smoking lots of dope and wearing tie die does not make them good. Image is their thing. I used to be setting up the PA and they would be like "Where can we hang this tapestry? The lights!! The lights!! We need LIGHTS!!!" How about smoking a good does of reality! I'm ranting on now about the BS, but two of the members are on my wavelength and I feel like sticking around to play with them, of course, one is my drummer,the other is lead guitar. Who knows, we could branch out by ourselves. 5SLINGER, I'm not a kid either, I'm 28. FUEL TRUCK, I live 30 minutes north of White River Junction which is on the New Hampster border. The next time that someone says that they got a paying gig, I've decided that 15% for the PA would be fair based on what 5SLINGER says and if they give me the "NAY", I'll still be nice and give them a couple phone numbers to call for them to get their own PA.

[tlbonehead]

Just a couple more thoughts on the subject. How much do you have tied up in the PA gear and are you responsible for getting it to the gig? Did you have to get a special vehicle just for this purpose? One thing to consider is that the companies that rent out equipment do so with the intention of making a profit,not just to break even. IMO,you should be asking a bit less than rental amount for this reason. I think a lot of band members would have a bad feeling if they thought another band member was attemting to make money off of them. I think if you could somehow show some kind of amount that was breaking even and your fellow members could see it that way,it might be a different story. At least if they were fair,they would. Just my opinion. The key is trying to make them see that you aren't trying to fatten your wallet on the deal.

[MrKnobs]

I used to play in an AC/DC cover band with a 17 YO bassist who could play slap bass like a madman and belt out Bon Scott "all night long" all night long. He'd never been in a band before and didn't have two dimes to rub together. When he did get some money, he'd blow it all on video games and cigs.

I rented him an old but decent P-Bass I had plus a Peavey/Music Man bass rig. I charged him $50/night for the rental. The other band members thought this exorbitant, but I really didn't want to rent my stuff to him, and I did want him to have some incentive to buy his own gear as soon as possible. When I suggested that they get together, buy him a rig, and let him pay it off with time payments none of them wanted to do that. In the meantime, Peter just kept blowing his gig money and never did buy his own gear.

We played around 2-3 gigs per week for about 3 years. He must have paid me around $15 grand rent on that bass rig and it didn't bother him at all. The bass and amp were pretty much trash by the time the band broke up. Peter was just happy to play and not interested in financing stuff or worried about money.

I wasn't trying to make money off him, just trying not to lose it and trying to get him motivated to buy his own gear. Didn't work.

Terry D.

------------------
Attitude... is audible.

[noodle_world]

Originally posted by thunderpaw:
[B].the Guiness is particularly fresh tonight!

B]


yummy.. guiness... = )

[billiam]

I'm definitely not trying to fatten my wallet at the expense of the band. At 15%, an average $300 gig would net me $45 for the PA and then the band would split the $255, five ways to make it about $51 per member. We would each be paying $10 to rent a decent PA. The cheapest PA rental deal I saw is $100 a weekend for a powered mixer, speakers, mics. The way I see it is that for the price of a pack of smokes and a six pack, they would be getting hooked up pretty good. The money wouldn't even come out of their pocket!! Some bars even give free booze!! Besides gardening, my other hobby is music. All my spare money goes towards equipment, not some habits that I have to maintain. Heck, I'll buy a new piece of gear and they give me the jealous stare. What they don't want to see is that their smoke and booze habits cost them maybe $40 a week on the low side. Multiply that times 52 weeks in a year and whammo $2000 easy. Add in their weed habit and the numbers increase a lot more. S***, they'll spend $80 for a quarter of weed that is gone in a week, but they won't buy a mike stand or cables. We used to rent some equipment when my PA wasn't going to cut it for a gig, i.e. larger amps, extra speakers, etc. You'd think is was easier prying a hunk of flesh out of a lions mouth when I told them that I needed X dollars off the top to pay for the rentals!!Besides the money issue and their drugs before music attitude, I'm going to stick around for a while until their actions force me to look for something else!! Sorry about all the ranting and raving, but you just got to release somewhere, and it is always nice to get support from others who have been in my shoes or can offer advice without personal attacks!!

[5slinger]

Billiam,
Stick to your guns. Like I said above figure one decent driver blows tell them it'll take 2-3 nights at 15% to pay for this. Lose your board or a crossover or power amp and your playing for free for 3 weeks.
Good luck.
And I meant the "kid" thing in a literary sense. I'm 42 my kids are getting close to your age.

CJ

[bassknave]

Part of my deal with my guys: If a guy is bringing a piece of gear in for collective use, he's responsible for assuring that it's in good working order. If anything used collectively blows/breaks/lets its smoke out, or otherwise needs repair, the band pays for it as a group. Same deal holds with us for any piece of gear used collectively--dimmers, drivers, diaphragms, bulbs, vehicles.

We also have a "no gaff, no cardboard" rule. Any gear held together with gaff or patched with cardboard must be repaired before it is used again (actually had a youngster guitarist who tried to convert an open back single 12" cab to a closed back by gaffing a sheet of cardboard over the back).

Mic stands and cabling are purchased collectively. We consider these consumable items, which I just buy as needed and charge the band for. This way, we're assured of sufficient fresh mic cords and decent stands (a cheapo boom stand will last 2-3 years with us, unless a drunk falls on it).

Phil

[The Evil Dr Wingnut]

Just tell the lead singer it is his responsibility to buy the PA. What the hell, the guitarist spends a wad on his gear, the bassist cough up a pile of cash on his, the drummer sells a kidney on ebay to pay for his kit, and the lead singer walks in with an SM58? Bah! Imagine a bassist showing up for a gig without his amp!

[tlbonehead]

Originally posted by The Evil Dr Wingnut:
Just tell the lead singer it is his responsibility to buy the PA. What the hell, the guitarist spends a wad on his gear, the bassist cough up a pile of cash on his, the drummer sells a kidney on ebay to pay for his kit, and the lead singer walks in with an SM58? Bah! Imagine a bassist showing up for a gig without his amp!
Plus,how many of them even own their own monitor!

[fuel truck]

Billiam next time you have a gig e-mail me with the time and place nhpstudios@pshift.com

[J the D]

Bump

[ATOMICDOG1]

It just so happens that I am filling out the gear list for our van insurance rider. Out of a grand total of $23,840.00 worth of gear only about 5 grand is not mine. This is not including personal rigs (bass, guitar, or drum rigs) just PA and limited lighting gear. I don't make enough to turn much of a profit, so its agood thing that the band helps with the load in/out and set up and that they have some potential or I wouldn't waste my time and money anymore. I make more $$ on the days when Strange Daze are off and I'm doing sound for someone else. Then again, Strange Daze keep me busy 3-5 nights a week and theres something to be said for a regular gig.

------------------
Mike
www.strangedaze4.net (http://www.strangedaze4.net)

[SG-DAWG]

i own the PA. in our band ,have about 18500. in it.i bought an old school bus to carry everything.i charge my band 150.00 no matter what.but i do not take a cut for playing guitar.a average gig makes us 400 to 600 dollars.and around here if we payed someone to do sound production for us it would run 400 a night.all the guys in my band couldnt be happier with this situation.i also told them how it would be before i bought it to.

[billiam]

Well, I finally got to talking to some of the band members and the three I talked to so far were in agreement with my deal of 15% off the top for PA use and gas money to haul the stuff. The drummer actually said he was going to talk to me about giving me more money because of all the stuff of mine we used. He knew what that I was doing everyone a HUGE favor for free!! The last two memebers I haven't talked to yet are the ones who suggested that "their friend" buy a PA and run it. I think they have a control issue. That was a year ago and "their friend" had run my board on a few gigs and during sound check, things supposedly sounded good, but at the end of the night people complained that guitars were the only thing to be heard. They didn't even ask for my help at all, so I didn't offer any!! Imagine running or even seeing a board for the first time after a ten minute crash course, and that was only an eight channel with a few amps!! My system is much larger now. We haven't played out in a while because of personnel changes, but I will get things straight before our next gig!!

[bassknave]

Good idea, Mark, but I've got a slightly different perspective. I'm in a 5-piece band (plus tech). Four of us have worked together on-and-off since 1969, first in road acts, then as weekend warriors. This incarnation has been in existence ten years, and, with the exception of turnover in one GTR/vocal slot, has been stable.

We operate largely as a collective--but some animals are more equal than others. I guess I'm the "leader." I deduct off the top for PA, mileage, maintenance and expenses (the band owns the truck, the drummer hauls the band--we pay him mileage)--we consider the FOH tech a band member for pay purposes, but he has no vote in repertoire matters. One guitarist and I, in conjunction with an agent, handle bookings and scheduling--agent books road, we book local/area. I pay the taxes and issue the 1099s.

After the PA and expenses, we do an even split--all feast--all famine. On more lucrative gigs (usually casinos), we set aside a larger chunk of change for the expense fund.

Personnel decisions are by consensus, song selection is by majority. Set lists are worked up by several people, tried and tinkered with on smaller gigs 'til I come up with a workable, acceptable list (front vocals are split three ways, we have a few song with brass and a few others with alternate GTR tunings, so transitions can be tricky).

There's a commonality of experience and trust among the four of us old guys --even the fifth, the "new" guy has it (he originally joined us almost 4 years ago, had to leave (moved), then came back last year). We even have the division of labor planned for our funerals. One will carry the urn, one will scatter the ashes, two will hand out plastic cups, the tech will tap the half-barrel.

When there's a difference of opinion, my role is pretty much that of tie-breaker and persuader. If I'm generally on the winning side (things usually break out 2 to 2 without me), I can occasionally force through an unpopular (but necessary) decision. On load-ins, I'm the guy who cruises, points and helps everybody. (I loaded and unloaded the truck 'til my back went). Oh, yeah. I get to locate fresh talent, but invitations to join are consensus. Invitations to un-join are also consensus, but I get to do the actual firing.

I couldn't function in this band as an autocrat. I do that in my day job. Besides, if I tried it with this bunch, the laughter would deafen me.

Phil

[J the D]

Each group of people will bring a unique perspective to the table. A commune might work for some. An autocratic leader may work elsewhere. Something in between is porbably what most want. The key is to determine what the boundaries are for your relationship and to specify those. Otherwise it will get ugly at some point.

[billiam]

We're a disfunkshunal family. Some don't want to be told what to do or work hard enough to make things happen. So, autocratic is out, although myself and the lead guitarist have sort of taken the role as the voices of opinion, i.e. "That sounds like s***, lets play it again and maybe try this." No fingers can be pointed, everything has to be non player specific or heads turn red. We've told players to try certain things and some of the comments back were, "This is my style," meaning to me that the player is limiting himself and locking us into what he wants to play, and "I don't even listen to the bass!!" That one comes from the keyboard player, translated into "I went to music school, who the F*** are you to tell me how to play!" and "I am playing so much I can't even hear the bass!" I'm just in this band for S***s and jiggles. I've developed a strong bond with some of the good players and hope to go somewhere with them. I know that I will finally snap with the disfunctional band and quit one day, but that hasn't happened yet. I want to take some of the players and start something new. I play with another much better band in attitude as well as abilities. This sort of became my rant, sorry!

[agedhorse]

Monitor guy's been with me 25 years, other tech/engr for 19 yaers. There's a lot to the stability and trust issue when the shit hits the fan. Some of the gigs we do are very large in terms of logistics, so it's nice to have 3 responsible people to oversee the regular crews. It also helps to have a frind or two on the job site if things get wierd (don't do many of these gigs anymore) and with a monitor guy that's 6'-3" and about 230 lbs, we don't get much shit. He's an attorney by education, so we don't get shafted either. I like the "triple damages" settlement clause he uses. Eliminates the really shitty clients right up front!

We did a gig last year where the tour manager had a masters in American History, their FOH sound guy was an attorney and the lighting guy was an MBA. I'm an E.E., my tech is an E.E. also! Made for a very fun evening for sure. The hangover was hell, but we stayed up after the gig having a raging discussion about N.Y. politics and economy.

[tshapiro]

"Guys, here's the deal... Up to now I've paid for the PA and coordinated getting it here. But, that really hasn't been fair to me and I'm starting to get pissed off over it. So, from here on out, I'm going to pass that responsibility on to someone else who can work with making sure we have a PA. If you'd like, I'm willing to rent the band the pa we've been using for $100 or you can come up with a different one."

Simple, then prepare to have a spine and don't cower.

['63-Strat]

Yep, money and bands are a bitch. If you said to a few guys hey lets get a hooker and we'll all screw her, would they expect you to pay for it? Probably not. But for whatever reason in bands it seems that whoever has the most money in a band is expected to pay for things without being compensated. I think the obvious thing to do is to negotiate things really openly ahead of time if at all possible. If the guys aren't willing to pay there share for things like PA/recording/promotions/etc. then unfortunately you either have to accept that and pay for it yourself or find some new band members. I know that with my band, (whom I am currently auditioning other members for unbeknownest to the others) I have the cash right now and had offered to front the money for recording. One would assume that they would then realize that they would have to eventually pay me back in some fashion. Nope, the idiots just figured they would get a free ride. If I find some guys that can compete with my old guys you can bet that I'm moving on.

[Daemonarch]

If you are serious about your music...it is your life and your business and good business men are always willing to put back into their business in order to make it grow . Music is no different.....if you deal with people who are not willing to invest in their business, which is music..... perhaps you should seek more serious business partners . On the other side of the coin there are many who spend far too much $ on the latest and greatest gear and no time on becoming better musicians...in either case such people are useless .

[billiam]

Wow here's a post from the deep, dark past. :eek: My cuyonnes have grown since this post and so have my playing skills. I don't compromise anything music wise because of friendship anymore. I'm in two originals bands and things are GREAT. No issues and the people I play with have a pro, business attitude. :p

[kevinnemrava]

I didn't read all the posts .. only the first page.. so sorry if I am off topic by now.. BUT.. lets see here.....

first off re read mr knobs post on page1 .. its the good stuff also . a bass player WITH PA .. hmm who needs wo here. I think you can easly find other opertunities ( find you local freebe publication and put an ad in .. bass play with pa - looking for work .. thanks gold!)
cheers thats all.

[SG-DAWG]

Holy shit,this thread started a year ago!

[Tommy Tune]

Kinda sounds like your bandmates are a little on the one way side. All them .......nothing for you. They better be monster players for the ego's that they're sportin'. I'd dump em'. There are a whole lot of great players out there that have they're shit together.

[SG-DAWG]

anyone else?

[MoosBros]

Originally posted by SG-DAWG
anyone else?


when I work with my own band as the "feature", as the band leader, I hire sidemen(usually the same familiar ones) at a fair wage to back me up...I keep the rest of the purse for the booking, and my troubles....sometimes that's good,, sometimes that's bad...

i usually furnish the entire backline, PA, lighting, and show up early to load it in and set it up...occasionally I may ask someone I know to bring something specific to make it a bit easier on me(a mic or speaker stands,or chords, ect..) especially if I know they have it and don't mind bringing it, or have specific requirements for their own gear(subject to my approval of course)..

they all help me strike the stage at the end of the night and get it back in the truck...then I pay them their cash...

if I'm being hired as a sideman... well,,, everything is negotiable..it never hurts to ask for the money,, the worse thing that can happen is they say NO.....

I've been in situations where there was not an equitable split of work , responsibilities, and such as pertaining to schlepping the gear in and out, bookings, and the PA ownership, it's ALWAYS eventually caused problems...

... I must say,,, at the very least, in your situation,, you supervise, and let them all carry and set up under your guidance, both in and out... ... atleast that may help you somewhat to become more appreciated.....and give you a break with something worthwhile...

[joestanman]

man, id hate to be in a band with most of you guys.

[MoosBros]

Originally posted by joestanman
man, id hate to be in a band with most of you guys.

I was young and dumb too,,, but that was a LONG time ago...



business is business...:D

[joestanman]

yeah I know buisness is buisness... I can see it working like this if you are treating the band as a buisness.. IE) cover bands, wedding bands, party bands etc. But I would never want to be in a band like that. I guess things work different in my band [maybe original bands as a whole?... who knows] We handle the buisness side of things, but no one takes a bigger chunk, because everyone is investing the same amount. We bought our PA with money we as a band made from gigs... we bought our van with money made from gigs, we rent our practice space with the band fund etc... if there is an expense that occours outside of the realm of what we have in the band fund [ie pressing, initial merch cost, water pump], everyone chips in an equal amount. If the whole thing goes belly up, we will just sell the van and PA and split whats left. But I guess different strokes for different folks... I would never want to be in a cover band, or bar band etc... just not for me. So I would never want to be a "hired gun".

[MoosBros]

Originally posted by joestanman
yeah I know buisness is buisness... I can see it working like this if you are treating the band as a buisness.. IE) cover bands, wedding bands, party bands etc. But I would never want to be in a band like that. I guess things work different in my band [maybe original bands as a whole?... who knows] We handle the buisness side of things, but no one takes a bigger chunk, because everyone is investing the same amount. We bought our PA with money we as a band made from gigs... we bought our van with money made from gigs, we rent our practice space with the band fund etc... if there is an expense that occours outside of the realm of what we have in the band fund [ie pressing, initial merch cost, water pump], everyone chips in an equal amount. If the whole thing goes belly up, we will just sell the van and PA and split whats left. But I guess different strokes for different folks... I would never want to be in a cover band, or bar band etc... just not for me. So I would never want to be a "hired gun".


that sounds reasonable enough.......;)


I don't mind playing "covers"....even if I'm a "hired gun" for sessions,, working for a songwriter or artist who is making demos or CDs, I myself am actually playing covers of their music, even though I may have some input into how their originals are worked out....

best I can remember, sessions are the only time I've played any "original" music and gotten paid well for it... :D