DIGITECH VOCALIST LIVE 2 - NOW WITH CONCLUSIONS AND VIDEO CLIPS!

[cmala]

I have the VL2 and I tried running the mic, mono out from the VL2 into my sound card, a Delta 1010LT using an XLR cable and I could not turn the level down enough to prevent clipping on my computer. No matter what I did, I couldn't get it to do anything but full, clipped, distorted volume. It seems to work fine when I run the same "mono out" into my PA mixer. Even with the mic input level knob turned all the way down I still get the full, clipped, distorted sound into the sound card.

I know I'm missing something stupid here but I haven't figured out yet what it is.

Craig

[orbm1]

I have the VL2 and I tried running the mic, mono out from the VL2 into my sound card, a Delta 1010LT using an XLR cable and I could not turn the level down enough to prevent clipping on my computer. No matter what I did, I couldn't get it to do anything but full, clipped, distorted volume. It seems to work fine when I run the same "mono out" into my PA mixer. Even with the mic input level knob turned all the way down I still get the full, clipped, distorted sound into the sound card.

I know I'm missing something stupid here but I haven't figured out yet what it is.

Craig

why don't you try sending the signal from your mixer? or check your configurations, I am not familiar with your sound card, but there might be a way to lower the input volume, like the gain knob, in your sound card...

One more thing, I noticed that the signal (mono out) from the vl2 is pretty hot, I was going to use it as a microphone input in my mixer and it was very loud..., then I used it as a line input in my mixer (still using xlr cables, but pressing the button to change between line and mic input) and it worked great......

try also buying a cable from xlr female to balanced 1/4, if you have an 1/4 input, this might work for you..... or use the stereo out...


hope this helps. :thu:


Thanks :wave:

Omar

[whinersmusic]

Just joining up here as I now have a Vocalist 2.

I agree that using your mixer to bring into your computer should do the trick ... no doubt a sound card problem here. You may also try the line out connections as opposed to the XLR connections - could be an inexpedience issue - there are XLR adapters that can match as well if you are stuck on using the XLR.

As for levels in from your guitar, I'm also experiencing low levels both for electric and acoustic. I'm using a compressor (BOSS CS3) to boost the sound in and it works very well. I'm finding the green light really has to be lit all the time for best harmony. Same with the vocals really. The highest level you can get without distorting is the trick.

My TC Helicon has gone on the fritz twice and a loaner unit once for a grand total of three issues in less than seven months. I'm wondering if anyone else has/had a TC Helicon (VoiceLive) and has had issues and now bailed on it? The DigiTech seems so much easier I regret having bought the Helicon at all.

Let me add that keeping the guitar in tune is really more critical than I hoped. I'm using Gibsons and they do drift. Perhaps some more tolerance on the "device" that generates the harmony - maybe a higher intelligence kind of thing that could say, oh the guitar isn't quite there but I will adjust for that.

Seems possible but, generally, I'm way into this unit over the other and will be trying the Vocalist 4 for sure. Oh, I really wish they and Helicon would have an on/off switch. It seems potentially an issue (and may have been with my Helicon) to have the unit power up with just plugging it in.

[fuzzball]

I can't wait to try the V4 unit (I still am comparing the unit to TC Helicon voicelive to see which is the best one for my situation). I like that the V4 does not have to use a guitar input.

[Anderton]

I have the VL2 and I tried running the mic, mono out from the VL2 into my sound card, a Delta 1010LT using an XLR cable and I could not turn the level down enough to prevent clipping on my computer.


This has been a problem for many people. Most assume it's a vocal device, it has an XLR out, it's mic level - but that's not the case, the XLR is definitely a line level output. Set up the sound card so the VL2 goes into a line level input and you should be okay.

[whinersmusic]

I can't wait to try the V4 unit (I still am comparing the unit to TC Helicon voicelive to see which is the best one for my situation). I like that the V4 does not have to use a guitar input.

What is your situation? If you are playing an instrument as well as singing you may find the TC Helicon (as I did) is pretty cumbersome and takes away from your singing as opposed to enhancing it. By this I mean, the potential steps you have to stomp through to keep the harmony correct (e.g. key changes etc) don't help you focus on the vocal itself - makes you more concerned about stomping at the right times instead of are you singing well!

If you are using midi already and keys especially, then you may have a completely different experience to mine.

A note on the V4, I think you mean output vs. input, since you still have to get the guitar in to have the harmony work. I believe the output will share a mix out on the unit (shared with the vocal out) and this would be similar to the VoiceLive unit but the VoiceLive pots are pretty sensitive int he worst way. A slight turn sends you up or down pretty fast and way past the setting you are looking to have. Don't know what the V4 will have but I do hope it will be more analogue in its feel so you can adjust with ease.

Be very interested to read your reactions to both.

[TheRock]

I just got my Vocalist 2 and am very pleased with it. A few months prior I purchased a Boss BR-1200 digital recording studio. Anyone have an idea on how I can interface the Vocalist 2 with the BR-1200 and use it to record vocals :confused: ( along with pre recorded guitar I guess )

[Chumly]

Record a dry track of straight to the board guitar that delineates the chord changes of the tune. Use that to trigger the VL2.

[neuro-feed]

Regarding the need to boost the guitar signal for the VL2 to work properly, I could especially see the necessity for some sort of boost if you're a guitarist who likes to use your volume knob to alter your sound. As a Tele player, I almost never play with the volume full up unless I want to overdrive my signal slightly. I usually leave my volume at around 50-60% to keep my tone clean and clear, boosting when needed for more gain/drive. It's possible the harmonies would track correctly even if the guitar's only at 50% output, but my point is if you like to play with your volume knob then you could run the risk of either sending too weak a signal or too strong a signal, not to mention possibly limiting your control of your sound.

[jfwong]

ROCK ON!

The Vocalist Live 4 SHIPS TODAY!

"Hi,
They should start shipping today, aug 20th

William Clayton
Harman Music Group
Technical Support Group"

Hoorah! I'm going to go to a guitar center and pick one up immediamente.

[Anderton]

Record a dry track of straight to the board guitar that delineates the chord changes of the tune. Use that to trigger the VL2.

What he said - I've tried that and it works fine. You can even shift the guitar track a bit ahead in time to make sure the vocal lands just after the chord has hit.

[Omaha]

First posting here....Hello everyone!

I am going back and forth between getting the TC Helicon and the VL4. I am the lead singer and rhythm guitar player in a classic rock cover band. The essential feature set of these units (ie, harmony generation and pitch correction) are exactly what I am looking for. The big impact it will have on the band is the ability to bring new material in quickly...for us it usually takes far longer to learn the harmonies and get them solid than it does to learn the song!

Money isn't really a factor. From what I can see, I can get a VL4 for $500, or a Helicon for $800, plus another $200 for the MIDI interface so it automatically reads the guitar chords. All things being equal, I'd rather not spend the extra $500, but if that's what it takes to get the right sound and the right setup, then no problem.

From what I've read, it seems like the "pros" of the Digitech really come down to simplicity. Simple to learn, simple to setup, simple to use. And price too, I suppose.

The "pros" of the Helicon are sound quality and flexibility. Also long term road-worthiness. I guy I know has one, and its a brick. Very tough.

The "cons" of the Digitech are (a) Is it really pro-level gear? I've seen Digitech stuff in the past that is more 'toy' than 'tool'. will it hold up night after night in a working band situation? (b) Is the sound quality really there?

The "cons" of the Helicon are its complexity, both in setup and in operation. And the price.

At the moment, I am leaning toward the VL4. Even if the MIDI interface on the Helicon works as described, its my sense that I would still spend more time fiddling with it on stage than the VL4. I want to interact with my audience, not my pedals! My thinking on the sound quality question is that the Helicon may be somewhat better, but that the difference would be lost in the overall bar band environment. Its not like this is a quiet listening environment, and its not like people are studiously listening for every nuance.

Any thought or comments?

[fuzzball]

What is your situation? If you are playing an instrument as well as singing you may find the TC Helicon (as I did) is pretty cumbersome and takes away from your singing as opposed to enhancing it. By this I mean, the potential steps you have to stomp through to keep the harmony correct (e.g. key changes etc) don't help you focus on the vocal itself - makes you more concerned about stomping at the right times instead of are you singing well!

If you are using midi already and keys especially, then you may have a completely different experience to mine.

A note on the V4, I think you mean output vs. input, since you still have to get the guitar in to have the harmony work. I believe the output will share a mix out on the unit (shared with the vocal out) and this would be similar to the VoiceLive unit but the VoiceLive pots are pretty sensitive int he worst way. A slight turn sends you up or down pretty fast and way past the setting you are looking to have. Don't know what the V4 will have but I do hope it will be more analogue in its feel so you can adjust with ease.

Be very interested to read your reactions to both.
I want a unit to use both live and in the studio. When playing live I play guitar and vocals. I heard that the V4 does not require the use of a guitar (you can select scale or something). I really don't want to have to use a guitar or other instrument to guide it (my guitarist and I both play the songs, sometimes I do the fills and sometimes he does). I appreciate the info on the TC being cumbersome because that is very important to me. I want something that sounds good (pitch correction works well) realistic harmonies (my group cant sing), does not require an instrument input to guide it, and to be easy to use............I may be wanting too much.

[whinersmusic]

First posting here....Hello everyone!

I am going back and forth between getting the TC Helicon and the VL4. I am the lead singer and rhythm guitar player in a classic rock cover band. The essential feature set of these units (ie, harmony generation and pitch correction) are exactly what I am looking for. The big impact it will have on the band is the ability to bring new material in quickly...for us it usually takes far longer to learn the harmonies and get them solid than it does to learn the song!

Money isn't really a factor. From what I can see, I can get a VL4 for $500, or a Helicon for $800, plus another $200 for the MIDI interface so it automatically reads the guitar chords. All things being equal, I'd rather not spend the extra $500, but if that's what it takes to get the right sound and the right setup, then no problem.

From what I've read, it seems like the "pros" of the DigiTech really come down to simplicity. Simple to learn, simple to setup, simple to use. And price too, I suppose.

The "pros" of the Helicon are sound quality and flexibility. Also long term road-worthiness. I guy I know has one, and its a brick. Very tough.

The "cons" of the DigiTech are (a) Is it really pro-level gear? I've seen DigiTech stuff in the past that is more 'toy' than 'tool'. will it hold up night after night in a working band situation? (b) Is the sound quality really there?

The "cons" of the Helicon are its complexity, both in setup and in operation. And the price.

At the moment, I am leaning toward the VL4. Even if the MIDI interface on the Helicon works as described, its my sense that I would still spend more time fiddling with it on stage than the VL4. I want to interact with my audience, not my pedals! My thinking on the sound quality question is that the Helicon may be somewhat better, but that the difference would be lost in the overall bar band environment. Its not like this is a quiet listening environment, and its not like people are studiously listening for every nuance.

Any thought or comments?

I've been posting that I've had troubles with the TC Helicon unit. Two issues on the one I purchased and one on a loaner. Both were new units purchased in December - one I bought and one the store kept as a rental. My unit has an issue with power on/off - the rental/loaner has just crapped out with the software in that you can't edit patches - it loops back to the starting 1 position.

I am interested in your reference to "built like a tank". The unit feels that way but I would say that there is an issue with the software and perhaps power board. There is no on/off switch on these (nor the V2) and I can't help but feel the power surge on start up is an issue. My experience says the thing is NOT road worthy.

The V2 does seem less sturdy to be sure but there isn't the issue of programming with it. The disturbing thing to me is losing my patches on the Helicon. Yes, you can use (and save) with midi but I don't have a computer to do that at this point. The V4 will have writable patches and you (we) may find similar issues with it. Currently the V2 seems like a great compromise in simplicity and reliability. It is small enough to fit well on a pedal board with other effects you might use for one. The TC Helicon unit that tracks guitar for harmony is an add on and you will have to run this into the original unit. Now, that's two pieces and the big unit does not adapt well to a pedal board. It really is meant to stand on its own I think without any other stuff.

So, have a look at both but definitely try the same songs on each and, if you use other effects, I'd sure bring those out so you can get the feel of what you have to do with the Helicon to keep it all together in your song - playing, singing, stomping etc.

I was just blown away with the DigiTech and this was before the TC Helicon loaner went on me.

I really believe in the "three strikes" concept. That's three for the TC Helicon and it's "out" Can't rely on it for a show. Now my problem is what to do with it when my own unit gets repaired. I am hoping the store will buy it back. Either way, wanting to be honest, I'll have to say it was in the shop twice and it is only seven months old.

If anyone has had issues with DigiTech I'd like to know. I guess the V2 is just too new to know if there will be any "roadworthy" problems. This plus the V4 now coming, could complicate things for a while until we hear about the live experiences with it.

Anyhow, hope this helps a bit on your thinking

[Chumly]

At the moment, I am leaning toward the VL4. Even if the MIDI interface on the Helicon works as described, its my sense that I would still spend more time fiddling with it on stage than the VL4. I want to interact with my audience, not my pedals! My thinking on the sound quality question is that the Helicon may be somewhat better, but that the difference would be lost in the overall bar band environment. Its not like this is a quiet listening environment, and its not like people are studiously listening for every nuance.

Any thought or comments?The argument that the audience may not hear the difference in a band environment between the TC Helicon units and the DigiTech units is valid to a point, but ask your guitar player to use only one $300 guitar and only a Pod 2.0 direct to the board with no additional effects or guitar amps etc because the audience will not know the difference.

I use IEM’s and believe me the difference is noticeable between the TC Helicon units and the DigiTech units. It’s a more pleasing singing experience sonically with the TC Helicon units but it's an easier (and sometimes) harmonically more accurate musical experience with the DigiTech units. DigiTech's musIQ™ is a hoot!

Whether the new TC Helicon Harmony Control Guitar will bridge that gap and make TC Helicon gear the better overall choice remains to be seen.

For me it’s simple: the better the overall PA the better I can sing. Why? Because I always sing in a relaxed manner with a moderate dynamic and let the PA do the work. I never try and make my voice overcome inadequacies in the signal chain.

[whinersmusic]

I want a unit to use both live and in the studio. When playing live I play guitar and vocals. I heard that the V4 does not require the use of a guitar (you can select scale or something). I really don't want to have to use a guitar or other instrument to guide it (my guitarist and I both play the songs, sometimes I do the fills and sometimes he does). I appreciate the info on the TC being cumbersome because that is very important to me. I want something that sounds good (pitch correction works well) realistic harmonies (my group cant sing), does not require an instrument input to guide it, and to be easy to use............I may be wanting too much.

You'll still have to get the guitar into the unit but there is an option to be more elaborate with your harmonies. I may be wrong here - maybe you can track guitar chords as well as go independent. The V4 promises to have built in patches, as well as user built ones, pitch correction and other things.

My fear is that this will take away some of the V2's core simplicity and perhaps not last (see my other post references to the TC Helicon and issues around power). None-the-less both the V2 the V4 are laid out more effectively for a guitar player to use in context with other effects on your rack or board than the TC Helicon.

The V4 is going to be double the length of the V2 and that really isn't that much larger. The V2 is so light it hasn't added any weight to my rack. I expect the V4 will be nearly the same actual weight so, to me, that is a good thing and big selling point for road use. Especially if you like to keep your sound consistent on shows - be they two song open stage work or longer gigs.

I repeat that the amazing thing about the V2 is that you plug yourself in and sing! Awesome (as long as your guitar is in tune and the input level is high).

I read the reviews of the TC Helicon at Harmony Central and many talked about the programming issues. In retrospect, I should have heeded these "warnings" a bit more but, at the time, the unit was one of the few "road" unit options available and had been out for a couple of years so I went for it.

I really do want to hear of anyone else who has encountered power/ and/or software issues on the Helicon. I find it just too odd that two different units would encounter problems in the space of seven months. Can't be just bad luck on my part - has to be something else.

If we see reports about the V2 and V4 going down in the same time limits, I'll be writing exactly the same thing about them. But I think anyone reading this should know about the problems with the TC Helicon when they are comparing the two company units (DigiTech vs. Helicon).

The repair tech told me explicitly that the TC Helicon's have been coming in for the power patch fix and, if this fix does not work, the board gets replaced. I really think it may be a recall issue. But now I'm ranting. Sorry :0)

[whinersmusic]

The argument that the audience may not hear the difference in a band environment between the TC Helicon units and the DigiTech units is valid to a point, but ask your guitar player to use only one $300 guitar and only a Pod 2.0 direct to the board with no additional effects or guitar amps etc because the audience will not know the difference.

I use IEM’s and believe me the difference is noticeable between the TC Helicon units and the DigiTech units. It’s a more pleasing singing experience sonically with the TC Helicon units but it's an easier (and sometimes) harmonically more accurate musical experience with the DigiTech units. DigiTech's musIQ™ is a hoot!

Whether the new TC Helicon Harmony Control Guitar will bridge that gap and make TC Helicon gear the better overall choice remains to be seen.

For me it’s simple: me the better I sound the better I can sing.

I want to add here that to get the "better sound", and I think that's debatable) from the Helicon takes a lot more fiddling around! That may not matter to some but, all I can say is that I'd rather spend time focusing on delivery than programming.

Every time you try to throw in some nuance on your vocals with the Helicon you get bad harmony - it's been real hard to program for the nuances ... when you do you have to sing it exactly the same way and stomp your way through the cycle to follow your vocal line. The DigiTech goes with you better. The only issue I've found on the DigiTech is that you really have to hit your chord change first before singing or the harmony won't quite go where you want it to. I believe an earlier review pointed out that this becomes somewhat intuitive after working it a bit. I also get more noise (hiss) from the Helicon than the DigiTech - noticeable on recording vs. live. I do hear a difference in the mix you can do from the Helicon vs. the DigiTech but not so much the quality of the harmony per se. I have found the DigiTech to be limited in the sound balance. But, I want to point out that getting the same balance on all your effect harmony patches with the Helicon was not quick. Separate adjustments of all of the vocal parts and room effects etc, etc. It was, like, 5 hrs to set up for almost every song. I'm sorry but that isn't fun to me - not having to bend down and adjust and then play the song again and see if it was right. I'm speaking as a player here - you almost need a "Helicon set up roadie" who can adjust while you play ... so you can get the exact setting you want on the patch. A further annoying thing on the unit is the controls digitally fly adjust - by that I mean, you can't always avoid zipping by the setting you want. Very frustrating to work with. But, some people may enjoy that aspect of the "production" so to speak.

Be interested to know if anyone else feels the size and weight differences between the Helicon and the DigiTech are a deal breaker. I mean, I can't be the only one who doesn't like the layout and bulk of the Helicon? The DigiTech is so lean and light - it was a pleasure dropping it in my board beside some other effects.

[Omaha]

There's a saying that I've often relied on in business: "Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good".

Somehow, I'm starting to get a sense that that is in play here. The TC Helicon unit seems like it is targeting a "studio rack" level of capability. I don't think I really need that in a live environment.

On the other hand, I'm kindof sour on Digitech stuff. What I've seen over the years did not strike me as pro gear. More like stuff a high school kid would use to play around in the basement. I haven't put my hands on a VL4 yet, so I'm more than willing to be convinced that that impression is wrong in this case.

In any case, I'm going to buy a VL4 through Musician's Friend. Not sure when it will ship, but I'll post a review once I get it.

Just a quick update....

I just got off the phone with Musician's Friend. They gave me a nice discount thanks to the large amount of business I do with them. That's the good news.

The bad news is they still don't have any in stock. Other than the pre-production demo that Digitech showed them, they are yet to see their first unit. I asked how many they had on pre-order, and he couldn't say exactly but did offer that it was well over 200 units.

[whinersmusic]

There's a saying that I've often relied on in business: "Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good".

Somehow, I'm starting to get a sense that that is in play here. The TC Helicon unit seems like it is targeting a "studio rack" level of capability. I don't think I really need that in a live environment.

On the other hand, I'm kind of sour on DigiTech stuff. What I've seen over the years did not strike me as pro gear. More like stuff a high school kid would use to play around in the basement. I haven't put my hands on a VL4 yet, so I'm more than willing to be convinced that that impression is wrong in this case.

In any case, I'm going to buy a VL4 through Musician's Friend. Not sure when it will ship, but I'll post a review once I get it.

Just a quick update....

I just got off the phone with Musician's Friend. They gave me a nice discount thanks to the large amount of business I do with them. That's the good news.

The bad news is they still don't have any in stock. Other than the pre-production demo that Digitech showed them, they are yet to see their first unit. I asked how many they had on pre-order, and he couldn't say exactly but did offer that it was well over 200 units.

Yes I meant to comment on this in an earlier post. I too have found DigiTech stuff to be poor in other units - returned them to the store.

The V2 reverb, compressor and enhances (the left side of the unit if you will) are a little weak and do have a toy like feel to them. However the reverb is acceptable enough if there is no alternative. The compressor gate is something you can't adjust on the unit unless you rdo not use the effects at all. I find on a recording you do get the sound of the gate coming on and off at points and this bothers me. It's not so bad live since there are lots of competing sounds that mask it. The gate is useful to stop leakage of your guitar through the mic - especially useful on an acoustic but, again, annoying in that you can't really adjust the timing of it on the V2. I believe the V4 will give you this capability.

I'd say the V2 will give an impression of being more "toy" like than the Helicon - no contest there. But, to paraphrase your start ... "less is more".

I've found Berringer product and Dan Electro to give the same "toy" vibe but I still swear by my Dan Echo unit and my Berringer DI - they just seem to do the trick for me. So, maybe it's a case of what does the job well enough and reliably enough. Time will tell if the V2 can hack it - the knobs and effects-harmony on/off pads do not give that "tank" like impression.

Not sure where you are located, but I've had the V4 on order since February here in Toronto Canada. It may be a while before it gets here. I am very curious how it will enhance on the V2. Let us know what you think as soon as you get yours and how it stacks up in your mind.

[Chumly]

I want to add here that to get the "better sound", and I think that's debatable) from the Helicon takes a lot more fiddling around!No it does not, as the inherent quality for the pitched vocals are better, and the signal path is much cleaner (i.e. S/N ratio) and the effects are better.

[Chumly]

I read the reviews of the TC Helicon at Harmony Central and many talked about the programming issues. In retrospect, I should have heeded these "warnings" a bit more but, at the time, the unit was one of the few "road" unit options available and had been out for a couple of years so I went for it.

I really do want to hear of anyone else who has encountered power/ and/or software issues on the Helicon. I find it just too odd that two different units would encounter problems in the space of seven months. Can't be just bad luck on my part - has to be something else.Many people do not know MIDI from a mud pie let alone basic harmony, chord and scalic theory, as to "programming issues" I expect those same people would have "programming issues" with a number of modern devices, if you like simple the VL2 is your best bet by a country mile.

BTW I own two TC Helicon harmonizers, and I do not have "programming issues" or any other "problems" but I am interested in the VL4 for ease of use and the very-very cool MusIQ! I just wish the DigiTech units had equal quality sound and MIDI access.

[whinersmusic]

Many people do not know MIDI from a mud pie let alone basic harmony, chord and scalic theory, as to "programming issues" I expect those same people would have "programming issues" with a number of modern devices, if you like simple the VL2 is your best bet by a country mile.

BTW I own two TC Helicon harmonizers, and I do not have "programming issues" or any other "problems" but I am interested in the VL4 for ease of use and the very-very cool MusIQ! I just wish the DigiTech units had equal quality sound and MIDI access.

Good point ;0) Ya got to decide where you want to go with the song in all cases at the Helicon (us mud pie-ers anyway) and go from there with each and every adjustment possible but you know that.

For me, the unit knobs just zip by the setting you want (way too fast say between -1, -2,-3 etc) and it is the added work of adjusting, trying it out, adjusting some more, trying it out some more, etc etc that is very labour intensive. I think people need to know that the Helicon is not a simple beast but a beast of burden in the sense that you've got to work it.

If you are going through midi at a keyboard I guess you've got the same advantage as with the guitar in going through the V2. I think it's a bit of apples and oranges there.

I hope you won't have issues with either machine(s). You've got to admit it's pretty frustrating to see two 980+ dollar units go south in less than a year.

[whinersmusic]

No it does not, as the inherent quality for the pitched vocals are better, and the signal path is much cleaner (i.e. S/N ratio) and the effects are better.

I'd just add in rebuttal theory (inherent) is one thing. In play, the sound on both can sound pretty bad. A lot of what the Helicon offers is just junk that you would never use such as kid voices and such. On a basic comparison, while singing and playing your axe, I think most would conclude the sounds are pretty close. In both units, the mix is a key I think. Too much of the harmony on either unit sounds "false" and the blend of the live voice is critical. A lot of singing teachers hate the whole concept including my own teacher but I love that you can add dimension to your solo work or band vocals. I hope we can agree that it is best used subtly no matter what unit you choose.

[Chumly]

Hi whinersmusic,
You make some good points too and yep I agree that vocal processors have becomes a bit of a money pit the last few years. For me I would take exception that “a lot of what the Helicon offers is just junk that you would never use such as kid voices and such”.

Here’s why: I do a solo act and on breaks I’ll invite people up to show them all the cool toys, it really draws them in, and they will ask for my business card and want to get to know me better (not always a good thing mind!).

I do a number of novelty and comedy things and the TC is great for that stuff, example singing church-choir-style “Dearly beloved we are gathered here to commemorate the loss of…….”

For the tune “Tequila” a bizarrely altered voice is a hoot! I would say about 10% to 20% of my tunes might use the VoiceWorks rather prominently.

As to how much I use them in the mix that is a tough one to assess, it really depends on the tune and what I am trying to do, i.e. subtle, overt, funny, serious.

I think of the TC VoiceWorks more as a performance tool than an adjunct (or compliment) to my solo voice. I have been using vocal harmonizers live in my solo act since the early ‘90s starting with the DigiTech ISP33 so I have some experience in that regard.

What you may well find is that after the blush wears off you will want to push the VL2’s performance capabilities, and in that regard it will be disappointing.

The VL2 is clearly more of a set-it and forget-it meat and potatoes average sounding device as compared to the VoiceWorks and possibly the VL4, but the VL4’s performance capabilities remain to be seen. The fact that the VL4 is MIDI-less is not a good sign however.

[jfwong]

BTW if anyone missed the post, the VL4 shipped out on August 20th, so it should be in stores within the week or at the beginning of next week.

[Anderton]

I've been waiting for a real trial-by-fire live performance situation before presenting my final conclusions on the VL2. It's one thing to have it work in the confines of a studio or rehearsal space, and another to ask it to perform at a festival event, in front of a crowd, with no safety net.

The attached clips (in WMV or MOV format, take your pick - but WMV has higher quality for a given file size) show the VL2 in action during my gig with the group EV2 at the Santa Fe Musik Fest on August 10th. This "power duo" features yours truly on Gibson's Digital Les Paul guitar (running the three bottom strings through an octave divider to provide bass) and Brian Hardgroove from the group Public Enemy on drums. With only two people, we were looking to get as big a sound as possible, so having the VL2 harmonize with my voice was a definite plus. Although the audio in the clips was captured with only a consumer camcorder, it's good enough to get the idea across.

The first clip is the last verse from a whacked-out, hard-rock arrangement of Bob Dylan's "The Times They Are A-Changing'." The VL2 has some full guitar chords to analyze, and as a result, the harmonies fall right into place. Oh, and in case you wondered if the VL2 does any kind of pitch correction, listen to the first line, where I'm out of breath from coming out of the "jump around on stage" solo: There's definitely no pitch correction, LOL.

The second clip provides the worst possible context for the VL2. The tune is called "Weapons of Mass Distraction," the vocal is more shouted/spoken than sung, and what I'm playing on guitar is minimal at best - mostly just a single note, representing the bass note of a chord. While you don't hear a clear "harmony" per se, the VL2 is definitely adding to the voice in a way that enhances the vocal. This is one of those "If it works with this, it will work with anything" scenarios.

One thing I did notice during rehearsals was that if you're not used to singing with the VL2, hearing the harmony come back at you can be a bit disconcerting. As I've done a lot of backup/harmony singing over the years, I had a natural tendency to "lock in" to the VL2's harmony. This led to pitch problems as my voice sort of "hunted" between the lead and harmony vocal. I've since learned (well, pretty much) to "tune out" the harmony in the monitors and just concentrate on the main vocal. But I think for future gigs. I may monitor just the lead vocal, and send the harmony+lead vocal to the audience. At this point, I've worked with the VL2 enough to know that I can trust it to put out the right harmonies; I don't necessarily have to hear it.

So overall, yes, I'm very impressed. The VL2 does more than advertised (like work with instruments other than guitar), has special analysis mojo that lets it do a good job even with fragments of musical information, and the effects - which I initially kind of dismissed - are actually handy (I used some compression, reverb, and "shine" EQ on the gig, to good advantage).

However, the are some holes in the VL2's feature set. You can't have presets, turn off MusIQ and program scales in a conventional way, have more than two harmony voices, do "gender-bending" or formant changes on vocals, and while useful, the effects are minimal (no delay, no chorus). Then again, the VL4 is now shipping, and promises to answer most, if not all, of these issues as well as others. Given that the VL2 is intended to be a painless, foolproof, plug-and-play solution for vocalists at a budget price, it needs to be judged by those standards. Measured against the claims made by the company, there's no question the VL2 succeeds on all counts.

This has certainly been one of the most straightforward Pro Reviews I've moderated. The VL2 has not only worked well for me, but with very few exceptions, the community has responded enthusiastically as well. Comments about buying a VL2 in the afternoon and using it that evening are telling: It really is plug-and-play. The comments regarding the VL2 vs. TC-Helicon's products have helped delineate their similarities and differences, and there have been quite a few useful tips as well in terms of applying the VL2.

When I first saw the VL2 at Winter NAMM, I was impressed. Having used it now for a couple months, I'm really impressed. This is, without a shadow of a doubt, breakthrough technology that produces highly musical results.

And so, this concludes the "official moderator review" part of this Pro Review, but the thread will of course remain open for follow-up questions and comments, and I will continue to monitor it. Thanks to all for your participation so far!

[neuro-feed]

What you may well find is that after the blush wears off you will want to push the VL2’s performance capabilities, and in that regard it will be disappointing.

The VL2 is clearly more of a set-it and forget-it meat and potatoes average sounding device as compared to the VoiceWorks and possibly the VL4, but the VL4’s performance capabilities remain to be seen. The fact that the VL4 is MIDI-less is not a good sign however.

I have to agree with you. After spending a couple of weeks with my VL2, I returned it and came to the conclusion that it felt more like some prototype rushed to the market than a finished product: as a first stab introduction to the amazing technology of MusicIQ, it initially impresses until you realize you've got very limited control or flexibility, then you start wishing it had more capability. The VL4, on the other hand, may be an extreme in the other direction to some consumers who aren't looking to spend almost twice as much or who don't require all of the additional capabilities the VL4 will supposedly offer. For me, the VL2 would have been perfect if it simply had some ability to recall simple patch settings (Really, how involved would this have been to include? We're not talking about many patches, and even a little $59 Zoom effects pedal can do this!). And since I'm also a midi user
(I control my rack setup via my Ground Control), I find the lack of midi a disappointment as well, though I don't expect to see midi included in future VL versions unless a rack version's developed.

I think Digitech's heading in the right direction, but I'm guessing that as more consumers weigh in on the blatant limitations of the VL2, hopefully the better the chance that they will be addressed in the next version. For now, I'm eagerly awaiting the release of TC's HarmonyControl for comparison and review.

[Anderton]

For me, the VL2 would have been perfect if it simply had some ability to recall simple patch settings (Really, how involved would this have been to include? We're not talking about many patches, and even a little $59 Zoom effects pedal can do this!).

I think Digitech's heading in the right direction, but I'm guessing that as more consumers weigh in on the blatant limitations of the VL2, hopefully the better the chance that they will be addressed in the next version.

I have to disagree with you here. There are plenty of units that address the limitations you see in the VL2 (and that I mentioned in my post on conclusions) - lack of presets, no MIDI, etc. I really don't think the VL2 is designed to compete with those, but is designed to do something that the more complex units don't do - be plug and play.

I use the VL2 with one higher harmony and one unison voice, and the FX mentioned above. On some songs I turn off the harmony, but mostly leave it on because I don't have to think about it, and it works. And sometimes I turn off the effects, but again, most of the time I leave them on...and that's really all I need. As much as I like products like the VoicePrism, and acknowledging that the VL4 does a lot more, I think I'll continue using the VL2onstage because it does what I need, and I don't have to fuss with it. I have enough things to worry about onstage :)

The studio is a different subject altogether, but the VL2 was never intended for the studio. There are other studio units that are far more capable...but in the studio, I have the time to tweak. Live, I want "harmony on, harmony off." That's why the VL2 appeals to me so much.

[Anderton]

Postscript...then again, I should probably mention that I use only two presets on my guitar multieffects, and bring in different sounds with the "virtual stompboxes" and by messing around at the guitar. So my live performance mindset is probably what the VL2 is aiming for.

[jimackmusic]

Mr. Anderton,
Could you take the time to film a more intimate setting so we can really hear what this thing sounds like? Although it was very cool, I didn't really hear anything from the VL2 in your recent clips. You have more insight with this kind of thing than most. I've been following this post for some time. I have a Digitech Vocalizer from the early 90's. It was difficult to operate from a "live" stand point, and I've been waiting for this technology since.

Because of this thread, I ordered the VL4 about 6 weeks ago and yesterday was told September 27th at GC.

Will you start a VL4 thread soon? I hope I made the right investment and won't know until I get to see your review. Thanks.

[Omaha]

the VL4 shipped out on August 20th, so it should be in stores within the week or at the beginning of next week.

I hope you are right...although I just received an update from Musician's Friend saying that my new target ship date is Sep 7.

[whinersmusic]

But I think for future gigs. I may monitor just the lead vocal, and send the harmony+lead vocal to the audience. At this point, I've worked with the VL2 enough to know that I can trust it to put out the right harmonies; I don't necessarily have to hear it.

Just a quick question here on how you split off the harmony and lead vocal? They are both coming out of the out(s) together at the VL2 with the mix controlled by the harmony control ... I'm guessing you must split off your mic at the input itself with one feed going to the board directly and one going into the VL2 and then out to the board? Or am I missing something at the unit that lets you split the mix?

Thanks a lot for hosting this by the way ... much appreciated.

[orbm1]

Just a quick question here on how you split off the harmony and lead vocal? They are both coming out of the out(s) together at the VL2 with the mix controlled by the harmony control ... I'm guessing you must split off your mic at the input itself with one feed going to the board directly and one going into the VL2 and then out to the board? Or am I missing something at the unit that lets you split the mix?

Thanks a lot for hosting this by the way ... much appreciated.

That is a good point.... I think your vocals might need to be splitted before, then, output 1 to the vl2 and output 2 to the mixer... maybe, any other ideas?????....

Thanks :wave:

Omar

[Omaha]

Quick note on the ship status. I sent an e-mail to Digitech asking about status and this is their reply:

Jeff,

The Live 4 began shipping this week.
Thanks for your interest.

Regards,

Digitech Support

[orbm1]

Quick note on the ship status. I sent an e-mail to Digitech asking about status and this is their reply:

Jeff,

The Live 4 began shipping this week.
Thanks for your interest.

Regards,

Digitech Support

Yep, same here, i contact them and this is their reply:

Hi,
They started shipping on August 20th

William Clayton
Harman Music Group
Technical Support Group

So hopefully, any day now.... I have not order any, I want them to hit the stores and I will get one...

in the meantime, If anybody gets it, please post your initial comments until Anderton can start the Vl4 thread...

Thanks :wave:

Omar :thu:

[jfwong]

When they say it's "shipping", I assume they mean they began shipping to retailers, who then relay the item to the customers. In this case when I called the Guitar Center in Hollywood and asked about the availability of the VL4, they said they would have it in stock early next week, the 27th or 28th.

[fuzzball]

Thank you guys, you have given me a lot to think about before deciding on a unit to purchase.....a lot of thinking.

[jimackmusic]

I just got off the phone with Digitech. She said not one unit has been shipped and it won't be shipped until the builds are complete, sometime in September. I asked if the Sept 27th date was realistic and she said hopefully before but that would be a good date. I asked if this thing has been fully tested as I would hate to be the beta tester. She said that's why it's taking so long.

[gc24]

I got the same out of both Digitech and MF. It is posted on MF web site that it is now September 7. Also, something is up with Digitech on their site for the demo's of the Vl2 and 4. When you click on the VL2 demo it is a different pic and when you click on the demo for the 4, it says the site is temp. down. I think they are going to put up the VL4 demo very soon.

[jfwong]

I just got off the phone with Digitech. She said not one unit has been shipped and it won't be shipped until the builds are complete, sometime in September. I asked if the Sept 27th date was realistic and she said hopefully before but that would be a good date. I asked if this thing has been fully tested as I would hate to be the beta tester. She said that's why it's taking so long.

Now that's inconsistent with three other people who have separately e-mailed Digitech and gotten the same answer that the units were shipped on August 20th - are you sure about this? If so, someone else should call Digitech and find out, because I'm thinking the person you were talking to may have been uninformed.

[Anderton]

Mr. Anderton,
Could you take the time to film a more intimate setting so we can really hear what this thing sounds like? Although it was very cool, I didn't really hear anything from the VL2 in your recent clips.

Well, it's definitely there, but mixed to support the main vocal. If you go back toward the beginning of this thread, you'll find some audio clips toward that put more of an emphasis on the harmony.

To me, one of the strengths of the VL2 is when it's used not to make one voice sound like many, but to make one voice sound "bigger," which is what I wanted to show with those clips. Although Brian has a mic, he's not singing in these clips...the sounds above and beyond a "normal" voice (doubling and harmony) are all courtesy of the VL2.

Just out of curiosity - do other people hear the harmony/doubling?

[orbm1]

Now that's inconsistent with three other people who have separately e-mailed Digitech and gotten the same answer that the units were shipped on August 20th - are you sure about this? If so, someone else should call Digitech and find out, because I'm thinking the person you were talking to may have been uninformed.

too much here say :confused:
on phone one thing, on email another thing....

A rep from Guitar Center called me today saying that he spoke with somebody from Digitech and they assured him that the VL4 is going to be at the store next week....

Anderton.... Maybe you can help us here.... contact whoever you know from digitech and maybe they can clarify this MESS!!

Thanks :wave:

Omar

[Anderton]

Just a quick question here on how you split off the harmony and lead vocal? They are both coming out of the out(s) together at the VL2 with the mix controlled by the harmony control ... I'm guessing you must split off your mic at the input itself with one feed going to the board directly and one going into the VL2 and then out to the board? Or am I missing something at the unit that lets you split the mix?

Thanks a lot for hosting this by the way ... much appreciated.

Your "guess" is a pretty educated one :) You're right that there's no way to split the mix, although I keep thinking that if I had a schematic, there must be a way...

I've also been toying with the idea of setting up two mics right next to each other, one going straight to the VL2, the other to the board. I could then sing closer to one mic or the other to vary the mix dynamically. I know it sounds goofy, and it might not work...but then again, it might.

[orbm1]

Your "guess" is a pretty educated one :) You're right that there's no way to split the mix, although I keep thinking that if I had a schematic, there must be a way...

I've also been toying with the idea of setting up two mics right next to each other, one going straight to the VL2, the other to the board. I could then sing closer to one mic or the other to vary the mix dynamically. I know it sounds goofy, and it might not work...but then again, it might.

What I would do is buy a small 1 input/ 2output mixer ($39 - $100)... plug my mic to it. send the left output (xlr or unbalanced line) to the VL2 then, Vl2 to the main mixer channel One, now, send the right output from the little mixer and send it straight to the main mixer in the channel 2, put good volume out and little monitor in on channel 1, put medium volume out and a lot of monitor on channel 2... and voila!, you have your vocals with good volume and a good clean monitor for your vocals without harmonization and if you want you can add some more harmony reference to your monitor... pan, effects, etc... sky is the limit!

Just and Idea!

let me know what you think or ask me any questions

Thanks :wave:

Omar :thu:

[whinersmusic]

What I would do is buy a small 1 input/ 2output mixer ($39 - $100)... plug my mic to it. send the left output (xlr or unbalanced line) to the VL2 then, Vl2 to the main mixer channel One, now, send the right output from the little mixer and send it straight to the main mixer in the channel 2, put good volume out and little monitor in on channel 1, put medium volume out and a lot of monitor on channel 2... and voila!, you have your vocals with good volume and a good clean monitor for your vocals without harmonization and if you want you can add some more harmony reference to your monitor... pan, effects, etc... sky is the limit!

Just to add to this, if you are going to add the extras that is (mixer et al), you could add a volume pedal to the harmony out and then smooth in your harmony and even control the level with the pedal. This is something that is nice on the Helicon. I believe the VL4 will have the volume pedal option. What is nice about your suggestion is that it will give you the best control over monitor and mains and the crowd will not even know what's up and why you sound so good!

[orbm1]

Just to add to this, if you are going to add the extras that is (mixer et al), you could add a volume pedal to the harmony out and then smooth in your harmony and even control the level with the pedal. This is something that is nice on the Helicon. I believe the VL4 will have the volume pedal option. What is nice about your suggestion is that it will give you the best control over monitor and mains and the crowd will not even know what's up and why you sound so good!


Now that I think about it... you can actually put the vocalist with only harmonies and send the harmonies as you would send another mic, what I am saying is, harmonies knob to 5 o'clock, you wont have any of your voice coming out, only the harmonies, yousend this to channel 1, put enough volume out, a little monitor if you want for reference, on channel two is your mic signal alone, coming from the small mixer, you can put your regular volume, eq, effects, and good monitor and great out... I think this will work better than my original suggestion, of course, you will not be able to use the onboard eff. from the vocalist, but they are not that great anyways...

Hope this helps...

Thanks :wave:

Omar :thu:

[Serjr]

If any of you get a shipping info from MF for the VL4 can you let us know it's shipping. I just ordered the VL2, but I've had the VL4 on order since June and now it's been move to September 7.
thanks
Serjr

[orbm1]

I just received a VL4 so I know it exists :) It will of course take a while longer to fill the pipeline of stores, this one was sent direct from the factory.


Hey Anderton, Let us know something about the VL4; I know that you have been busy but maybe you can let us know something about it.... we are impatientely waiting for it :freak:, but we would like to know your first thoughts until you can start a thread.

Thanks :wave:

Omar :thu:

[whinersmusic]

Hi, I have received the LV2 yesterday and immediately have tried it with my guitars...According to the setting instructions, the guitar LED should be green most of the time.....unfortunately none of my active piezzo guitars could reach the green light ( I own a Martin, soome acoustic from luthier). It was the same with the Gibson les Paul and an archtop Vega E-201 from mid 50th...the green almost permanent signal could Only be obtained with a Gibson ES-150 from 1954...does it means that I have to use this guitar only..?? Is there anyone who have experienced it with acoustic guitars....now I am a littler bit disappointed since the harmonies are based on guitar chords...some help for a belgian guy working in Italy would be greatly appreciated...please share your experiences in this field
grazie

Chris

I had the same issue with my Gibsons (using Fishman under saddle pick up). I added a compressor to the signal before going to the VL2 and the green light is now steady. I note that you really do need to have the green light on virtually all of the time for a better track of the harmony. The compression does color the sound a bit but it is actually to my liking so I'm not freaked out by it. I do believe the VL2 should have a gain setting on it (the VL4 is showing in the manual posted oat DigiTech as having a gain for the guitar). Anyhow, try a compressor and you'll find it works to boos the signal for you.

[cmala]

My question to Digitech and their response....

Message...
I have the Vocalist Live 2 and when using my Taylor 410CE with the ES
pickup system it doesn't seem like I am getting a strong enough guitar
signal to "drive" the unit. The green light only blinks on when I
really strum the guitar hard but then it just blinks on and then turns
right off.

Response:
If the light is just blinking occasionally, you should be just fine.

William Clayton
Harman Music Group
Technical Support Group


I asked a followup question eluding to the difference in what he was telling me v.s. what the manual said but no response.

Craig

[JohnnyDMonic]

Sorry, I couldn't be bothered to read through all the pages but, has anyone tried using the VL2 with 2 guitarists yet? so the rhythm guitar would plug into the guitar input and the lead guitar would plug into the vocal mic input. I reckon it'd be an interesting experiment if it hasn't already been done, and I'd love to hear it if anyone can be bothered to do it and upload it.

[Kramster]

A guy on the Digitech site did that with a violin as lead and got the 3 parts. I have played a harmonica through it and that works too.

[JohnnyDMonic]

cool :)

[neuro-feed]

I switch off between two guitars when I play live and I ran both through a Boss LS2 first then into the VL2. Works fine.

[whinersmusic]

My question to Digitech and their response....

Message...
I have the Vocalist Live 2 and when using my Taylor 410CE with the ES
pickup system it doesn't seem like I am getting a strong enough guitar
signal to "drive" the unit. The green light only blinks on when I
really strum the guitar hard but then it just blinks on and then turns
right off.

Response:
If the light is just blinking occasionally, you should be just fine.

William Clayton
Harman Music Group
Technical Support Group


I asked a followup question eluding to the difference in what he was telling me v.s. what the manual said but no response.

Craig

In testing levels, it's pretty clear that the harmony tracks better when the green light is on all the time. I think the manual says that right? You do get harmony from the unit if it is not green all the time but I have found the harmony does come out better with a full green. This is why I'm sure they've added the gain on guitar for the VL4. Probably felt they could get away with it on the VL2 prototype. Judging by the comments here, a lot of us are noting the weaker level in from our guitars. So, DigiTech, I suspect you'll give in and add one in your next incarnation of the VL2 ... hmm?

Further notes:
I'm also finding that the harmony does track oddly sometimes on full chords - that is you really have to hit the root note string, say the E string as opposed to the full E chord to make the harmony sound like what you want. There is an odd after-harmony that comes up on the highest harmony setting in particular. It's not exactly off but it is late coming in really (hence the "after").

I was hoping the 30 sec memory would allow a nice strong harmonic finish on some songs but I'm finding this "after-harmony" leaves me less than happy. I have to trail off on the mic to avoid it from happening and I don't want to trail off so soon. It is changing how I play the song really. And, it really only seems to be an issue on some of the more nuanced harmony songs I want. So, there you go, the "tracking to guitar chords" does have some limitations.

I guess we can call this the "post place that won't die" cause we are carrying it on. Actually, though the VL4 post will be essential, I would like to see some continuity between comments here and on the new. Perhaps future notes from folks who have made comments here, and who are using both the VL2 and then the VL4, can be sure to note differences, improvements, solutions between etc.

Cheers,

[Michael Angel]

Hey guys. I was hoping someone could help me out. What was the price listed for the VL4 in the August Musicians Friend catalog? Thanks and keep up the great work. Amazing thread!

[gc24]

$499.00 I think.

[bromo999]

Just thought I'd update. Last post of mine was that I got an email from Zzounds on 8/17 notifying me that my DVL4 had shipped. It had and was delivered to my door last Tuesday 8/21. So they do exist, and some at least are moving. (granted, I had pre-ordered 5 months ago...).

The kicker is that with work and such, I haven't had a chance to take it out of the box.

[Michael Angel]

Thanks gc24. I know for sure the online price is $499 but I was under the impression that was an increase from the August Catalog price but I could be wrong. Musicians Friend said they will honor their catalog prices for a couple of months after the fact so if anybody knows if the the August Catalog price for the VL4 was less than $499 please let me know. Every dollar counts! :)Thanks again.

[fuzzball]

Friends don't let friends pay too much!:)

[Serjr]

Thanks gc24. I know for sure the online price is $499 but I was under the impression that was an increase from the August Catalog price but I could be wrong. Musicians Friend said they will honor their catalog prices for a couple of months after the fact so if anybody knows if the the August Catalog price for the VL4 was less than $499 please let me know. Every dollar counts! :)Thanks again.

The Aug price was 399.95 page 85 item no 180071

[orbm1]

The Aug price was 399.95 page 85 item no 180071

Thanks gc24. I know for sure the online price is $499 but I was under the impression that was an increase from the August Catalog price but I could be wrong. Musicians Friend said they will honor their catalog prices for a couple of months after the fact so if anybody knows if the the August Catalog price for the VL4 was less than $499 please let me know. Every dollar counts! :)Thanks again.


Thank you guys very much for the info, I do not know if they will honor it, but I am going to give it a try!

Thanks! :wave:

Omar :thu:

[Michael Angel]

Serjr you really came through for me! Thanks so much. I just got off the phone with Musicians Friend and they honored the $399.95 price!

After reading the VL4 manual, I am so fired up to get this thing!

Can't wait for Craig to start the new VL4 Pro Review Thread. See you guys there.

God bless

[Serjr]

Glad to be some help. I wish I knew they would honor the Aug price. Just got my VL2 but paid 349.00 for it. I still have the VL4 on order at Musicians Friends for 499.00.
The Aug price for the VL2 was 299.95 page 85 Item no. 180068
SerJr

[jfwong]

I just got off the phone as well with Musician's Friend and they honored the $399.95 price as well.

If you have the catalogue, they'll ask you for the "source number" of the item, but if you don't just explain that you don't have the catalogue and provide them with the item number.

Woohoo! Hooray for cheapness and awesome deals.

[orbm1]

Just thought I'd update. Last post of mine was that I got an email from Zzounds on 8/17 notifying me that my DVL4 had shipped. It had and was delivered to my door last Tuesday 8/21. So they do exist, and some at least are moving. (granted, I had pre-ordered 5 months ago...).

The kicker is that with work and such, I haven't had a chance to take it out of the box.

Well, that is very sad that you have it but you haven't had the time to play with it... but, would you post your first impressions when you get to play with it?....

Thanks :wave:

Omar :thu:

[steve350]

I've owned several harmony boxes over the years. I started out with the Digitech Vocalist Performer, TC Helicon Voice Prism and finally the TC Helicon Voice Live. I had a chance to test the Digitech Vocalist Live. I think it is really really easy to use, very well thought out. However, I do not think the harmonies sounded as real as the TC VoiceLive. The Digitech's sounded fake and processed to me where the TC's are more human like, just my $.02.

[gc24]

Probably so, but the difference in price keeps alot of us away from the TC Helicon and the ease of use makes the Digitech a better choice. My $02.

[geckoland]

I have owned a TC VoiceLive, I own a Digitech Vocalist Live 2, and I have used a TC VoiceWorks, and a Digitech Performer. I have compared the TC VoiceLive and Digitech Vocalist Live 2 side by side. I think I agree with Steve350 that the TC VoiceLive does sound a bit better than the Vocalist Live 2 when you listen to them in a studio environment. There does seem to be better decoupling and more realism to the voices. However, I prefer singing with the Vocalist Live 2 in gigs and not just because it is easier to use. I find the harmony voices in the VoiceLive unit sluggish in comparison. It feels like they are always a little behind me when I am singing. I think maybe the latency of the harmony voices is longer in the TC VoiceLive, although I did not measure it. When you bring in the price difference and ease of use of the Digitech vocalist live, it is a bit of a no-brainer decision if you are going to use it for gigging. In the studio, I think I would still prefer the TC VoiceLive (or perhaps one of their rack units), although maybe the Vocalist Live 4 will change that (It is shipping now!!).

[orbm1]

I just got off the phone as well with Musician's Friend and they honored the $399.95 price as well.

If you have the catalogue, they'll ask you for the "source number" of the item, but if you don't just explain that you don't have the catalogue and provide them with the item number.

Woohoo! Hooray for cheapness and awesome deals.


If you have a preferred salesman at guitar center tell them about the price for the vl4 in musicians friend catalog, page 85, etc, etc...

they will honor it and give you a little bit of a discount so it can even over set the taxes.... I prefer to buy it at a guitar center, so if i have an issue i do not have to go thru the shipping hassles....

by the way, I am waiting for it, when they arrive to the store they will call me.

and if you live in the Detroit Metro area pm me and i will tell you @ which guitar center and who gave me the discount.

one more thing... Musicians friend will honor the price for the vl4 until 9/30/07


hope this helps...

Thanks :wave:

Omar :thu:

[orbm1]

I have owned a TC VoiceLive, I own a Digitech Vocalist Live 2, and I have used a TC VoiceWorks, and a Digitech Performer. I have compared the TC VoiceLive and Digitech Vocalist Live 2 side by side. I think I agree with Steve350 that the TC VoiceLive does sound a bit better than the Vocalist Live 2 when you listen to them in a studio environment. There does seem to be better decoupling and more realism to the voices. However, I prefer singing with the Vocalist Live 2 in gigs and not just because it is easier to use. I find the harmony voices in the VoiceLive unit sluggish in comparison. It feels like they are always a little behind me when I am singing. I think maybe the latency of the harmony voices is longer in the TC VoiceLive, although I did not measure it. When you bring in the price difference and ease of use of the Digitech vocalist live, it is a bit of a no-brainer decision if you are going to use it for gigging. In the studio, I think I would still prefer the TC VoiceLive (or perhaps one of their rack units), although maybe the Vocalist Live 4 will change that (It is shipping now!!).

In this video i checked how the tc helicon sounds and performs, and i have to agree it is a little better sounding than the vl2.... but.... look how many times he has to step on the tc helicon to keep a proper harmony.... he needs to change parameters every paragraph.... you know what.... when i am perfoming i prefer something that is set it and forget it!!!! something that will let me express without worrying about changes in parameters, the hold effect is cool in the tc helicon, but maybe the vl4 will do stuff like that...... my 0.02

well check the video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TsMHCx5NvPM

hope this helps

thanks :wave:

Omar:thu:

[steve350]

I agree that the number of foot-switches on TC are a bit overwhelming. I don't use mine like that. I play keyboard and guitar in my band and that's confusing enough. I've programmed all of our songs into the Presets on the VoiceLive. A lot of the songs use the same preset if they are in the same key.
I just call up the numbered preset (it comes up with the song title) and hold down the USER BUTTON when I need harmony, that's it. As far as latency, I am not experiencing that at all. You might want to check the HA-2 screen which controls the HUMANIZATION STYLE settings. There is a setting called TIMING, if you have that chosen, it will delay the harmonies.
I agree that the price of a new VoiceLive is too high. I was able to find one on ebay for $400 in perfect condition. A lot of people buy this thing and find out it's too confusing to program and want to dump it. I think it is very smart of Digitech to make the Vocalist Live 2 affordable and easy to use.

[cmala]

I couldn't pass that up. I ordered the VL4 with musicians friend today for $399.95! She had to search through the August catalog but she found it and they honored the price.

Anyone wanna buy my brand new VL2? It's like new in the box. I only powered it up twice.

Craig

[gc24]

LOL.

[fuzzball]

Correct me if I am wrong but with the TC voice live you could set a 2 presents, 1 with just something to thicken a voice and the other with harmony and just push a button to change to harmony when you need it? It does not seem that hard to me.

[Ontariomedic]

Hey Guys,

Good news..... I just received an email from "Sweetwater" with a confirmed tracking number. My VL-4 has in fact been shipped and should arrive in a couple of days.

I ordered AND pre-paid for it MAY 06, 2007 !!

[geckoland]

As far as latency, I am not experiencing that at all. You might want to check the HA-2 screen which controls the HUMANIZATION STYLE settings. There is a setting called TIMING, if you have that chosen, it will delay the harmonies.


Hi Steve350, Thanks for the tip. I tried turning the TIMING parameter all the way down, and that made the VoiceLive much better for singing live (for me anyway). In fact, with the TIMING turned down, I could hardly tell the difference between the harmony voice quality of the Voice Live and the Vocalist Live 2. When I listen critically in a studio environment, I actually like the TIMING turned up a bit. It seems that this TIMING parameter is one of the things that makes the VoiceLive harmonies sound more realistic.

I looked in the Vocalist Live 4 manual to see if it had a similar control. It has a Voice Styles control that can be set to things like VST TIME, VST TM PITCH, etc. I am assuming that this does something similar to the VoiceLive TIMING parameter. Can anyone with a Vocalist Live 4 confirm this? It will be interesting to compare the voice quality of Voice Live with the Vocalist Live 4.

[whinersmusic]

Correct me if I am wrong but with the TC voice live you could set a 2 presents, 1 with just something to thicken a voice and the other with harmony and just push a button to change to harmony when you need it? It does not seem that hard to me.

Just had to enter the picture again. Yes this is correct but simply does not work for many songs. If you stay in the same key you are alright but anything with changes and you get into lots more programming and then stomping through the song. In one of my sets, I had to use 12 different patches and, in some songs, step over 20 times. That's nuts!! Just takes you away from good solid delivery in concern over timing!!!

What I found most annoying in setting the whole deal up for these songs is the array of effects and how you have to change so much from one setting to another. In some cases everything from the timings of the voices to the levels of each voice - nothing was consistent!

Seems to me I was working back and forth from the user patch to the pre-set patch and it was driving me insane because you can't edit the parameters inside your own patch ... have to go back to preset and adjust then save the preset again at the preset area (which alters that) then go back to your own preset - it would be much better if you could just edit your own patch completely inside your patch bay and have the original to reference off of. I know, I know ... you can return to the factory pre-set at any time but it's just another joy ride you have to go through.

I would say again the TC Helicon is not road worthy really for a singer guitarist at a gig. Way to much involved. For a producer in a studio environment where you can control everything and punch in and out and blah blah blah, it has real possibilities - but, then, why not use the rack mount versions of the thing?

I just think Helicon has it all wrong when it comes to a road unit. All the way from size of the thing to its implementation. I find it amusing that they have now developed a unit to attach via midi to the old unit that will track guitar chords. Great. Now if they would just make an all in one unit that is small, has the guitar tuner in it and allows for simple changes, that would be great. But that's what DigiTech has done isn't it?

I think the actual voicing of the TC Helicon is better than the VL 2 but only marginally so in a live situation anyway. I have used both the VL 2 and Helicon live and no one has noticed the difference.

I am sure the VL 4 will give almost as much variety in harmony as the TC Helicon without the same hassles. Though, as many have said, it won't have midi.

I think it's fair to say we have two different philosophies at work between the two companies. The Helicon people I think went for a more robust unit at the consequence of ease whereas the DigiTech people have gone from an ease point first. I'd say a guitarist performer must have been on their development team while the Helicon people may have not listened to that side.

We all know the Apple commercials vs. PC. That's what we've got here and I think it is a fair analogy. Of course there are still a lot of PC users out there doing great things so it's all in what you fancy I guess.

[orbm1]

Just had to enter the picture again. Yes this is correct but simply does not work for many songs. If you stay in the same key you are alright but anything with changes and you get into lots more programming and then stomping through the song. In one of my sets, I had to use 12 different patches and, in some songs, step over 20 times. That's nuts!! Just takes you away from good solid delivery in concern over timing!!!

What I found most annoying in setting the whole deal up for these songs is the array of effects and how you have to change so much from one setting to another. In some cases everything from the timings of the voices to the levels of each voice - nothing was consistent!

Seems to me I was working back and forth from the user patch to the pre-set patch and it was driving me insane because you can't edit the parameters inside your own patch ... have to go back to preset and adjust then save the preset again at the preset area (which alters that) then go back to your own preset - it would be much better if you could just edit your own patch completely inside your patch bay and have the original to reference off of. I know, I know ... you can return to the factory pre-set at any time but it's just another joy ride you have to go through.

I would say again the TC Helicon is not road worthy really for a singer guitarist at a gig. Way to much involved. For a producer in a studio environment where you can control everything and punch in and out and blah blah blah, it has real possibilities - but, then, why not use the rack mount versions of the thing?

I just think Helicon has it all wrong when it comes to a road unit. All the way from size of the thing to its implementation. I find it amusing that they have now developed a unit to attach via midi to the old unit that will track guitar chords. Great. Now if they would just make an all in one unit that is small, has the guitar tuner in it and allows for simple changes, that would be great. But that's what DigiTech has done isn't it?

I think the actual voicing of the TC Helicon is better than the VL 2 but only marginally so in a live situation anyway. I have used both the VL 2 and Helicon live and no one has noticed the difference.

I am sure the VL 4 will give almost as much variety in harmony as the TC Helicon without the same hassles. Though, as many have said, it won't have midi.

I think it's fair to say we have two different philosophies at work between the two companies. The Helicon people I think went for a more robust unit at the consequence of ease whereas the DigiTech people have gone from an ease point first. I'd say a guitarist performer must have been on their development team while the Helicon people may have not listened to that side.

We all know the Apple commercials vs. PC. That's what we've got here and I think it is a fair analogy. Of course there are still a lot of PC users out there doing great things so it's all in what you fancy I guess.


I totally agree.

Thanks :wave:

Omar:thu:

[fuzzball]

Just had to enter the picture again. Yes this is correct but simply does not work for many songs. If you stay in the same key you are alright but anything with changes and you get into lots more programming and then stomping through the song. In one of my sets, I had to use 12 different patches and, in some songs, step over 20 times. That's nuts!! Just takes you away from good solid delivery in concern over timing!!!

What I found most annoying in setting the whole deal up for these songs is the array of effects and how you have to change so much from one setting to another. In some cases everything from the timings of the voices to the levels of each voice - nothing was consistent!

Seems to me I was working back and forth from the user patch to the pre-set patch and it was driving me insane because you can't edit the parameters inside your own patch ... have to go back to preset and adjust then save the preset again at the preset area (which alters that) then go back to your own preset - it would be much better if you could just edit your own patch completely inside your patch bay and have the original to reference off of. I know, I know ... you can return to the factory pre-set at any time but it's just another joy ride you have to go through.

I would say again the TC Helicon is not road worthy really for a singer guitarist at a gig. Way to much involved. For a producer in a studio environment where you can control everything and punch in and out and blah blah blah, it has real possibilities - but, then, why not use the rack mount versions of the thing?

I just think Helicon has it all wrong when it comes to a road unit. All the way from size of the thing to its implementation. I find it amusing that they have now developed a unit to attach via midi to the old unit that will track guitar chords. Great. Now if they would just make an all in one unit that is small, has the guitar tuner in it and allows for simple changes, that would be great. But that's what DigiTech has done isn't it?

I think the actual voicing of the TC Helicon is better than the VL 2 but only marginally so in a live situation anyway. I have used both the VL 2 and Helicon live and no one has noticed the difference.

I am sure the VL 4 will give almost as much variety in harmony as the TC Helicon without the same hassles. Though, as many have said, it won't have midi.

I think it's fair to say we have two different philosophies at work between the two companies. The Helicon people I think went for a more robust unit at the consequence of ease whereas the DigiTech people have gone from an ease point first. I'd say a guitarist performer must have been on their development team while the Helicon people may have not listened to that side.

We all know the Apple commercials vs. PC. That's what we've got here and I think it is a fair analogy. Of course there are still a lot of PC users out there doing great things so it's all in what you fancy I guess.


Thank you, there was some excellent insight there!

I see your points and they are very helpful.:)

[orbm1]

Hey Guys,

Good news..... I just received an email from "Sweetwater" with a confirmed tracking number. My VL-4 has in fact been shipped and should arrive in a couple of days.

I ordered AND pre-paid for it MAY 06, 2007 !!


Maybe you can be the first one posting first impressions of the VL4...

I am looking forward to get mine, probably within a week or so..

Thanks :wave:

Omar :thu:

[fuzzball]

I can't wait to see real reviews of the VL4 (reviews by people with nothing to gain from it). I originaly was going to get a TC Helicon voice live, but after this thread topic I am considering alternatives!

[steve350]

I agree with a lot Keith said. However, I do not use the SONG MODE where you do have to press a lot of buttons. I simply programmed the USER button as momentary switch to turn the Harmonies on when I step on it. I have over 45 songs programmed into my VoiceLive as PRESETS. It probably took me 45-60 minutes to program all of our songs.

All I did was develop 1 good preset and just change the key and the scaling to fit the rest of the songs. I do use the Midi Editor Program available which makes programming just a few mouse clicks on your computer. I do not use any of the effects since our PA system has some great effects.

Just for the record, I am not pro TC or against Digitech. I am just a gear nut that will probably end up purchasing the new Digitech because it's new and different.

[whinersmusic]

I agree with a lot Keith said. However, I do not use the SONG MODE where you do have to press a lot of buttons. I simply programmed the USER button as momentary switch to turn the Harmonies on when I step on it. I have over 45 songs programmed into my VoiceLive as PRESETS. It probably took me 45-60 minutes to program all of our songs.

All I did was develop 1 good preset and just change the key and the scaling to fit the rest of the songs. I do use the Midi Editor Program available which makes programming just a few mouse clicks on your computer. I do not use any of the effects since our PA system has some great effects.

Just for the record, I am not pro TC or against Digitech. I am just a gear nut that will probably end up purchasing the new Digitech because it's new and different.]

Yeah, I did that too and it works on the songs that don't need key shifts - it does work well when it fits the song in that sense. I just found that, during a set, I had a variety of songs where I couldn't count on the harmony without doing more advanced work with the unit. I too did not want the reverbs et al and disengaged them. I haven't used a midi yet via mouse which I can tell will soften a lot of the edge on the unit. And that would be something for those to consider if you have a good set up at your computers. You might find the Helicon less aggravating in that sense.

I do find the Helicon's having a volume pedal to bring on the harmony (I use that rather than the button) is very nice. I played last night with the DigiTech and I found I kept having to look down to see if I'd disengaged the harmony or not and wasn't always tight with it on and off. The little light is quite close to the engage foot switch and my foot tended to cover it. So, it would be nice if the VL 2 had the option of engaging with a volume pedal. The VL 4 manual says the VL 4 has the option. At least then when the pedal is toe down, you know you are in harmony mode. You can also do a bit of subtle blending in and out with the pedal.

I am considering splitting my mic feed (discussed in earlier posts) so I can use a pedal with the VL 2 and just have the harmony switch engaged all the time and bring on the signal much like with the Helicon.

Early experiments with that though give me hum on the split.

We're just a bunch of perfectionists I guess!

[gc24]

The Vocalist Live 4 is in at AMS.

[helloween1984]

Say if I buy this pedal and want to do some studio work with it yet don't have a guitar hooked up. Will the pedal create a harmony just off of my voice alone without me playing a guitar through it at the same time or do you HAVE to be playing an instrument through it. Reason I am asking obviously is that I don't want to be strumming my guitar strings while trying to concentrate on my vocals in the studio. Or for example, I play live in two bands....one is my real band and one is a cover band. The guitarist in the cover band frankly is an idiot and cant tune his guitar right sometimes and obviously if the guitar isnt in tune, the pedal doesnt work right. Could I use this thing live without his guitar plugged in and me singing? Would is produce the proper harmony just based on my voice? Or again, do you have to be playing an instrument through it in order for it to work?

-Tony

[GlennGalen]

Say if I buy this pedal and want to do some studio work with it yet don't have a guitar hooked up. Will the pedal create a harmony just off of my voice alone without me playing a guitar through it at the same time or do you HAVE to be playing an instrument through it.
-Tony

Tony,

It needs to have chords going into it so it can figure out the right harmony.

[Michael Angel]

Tony,

I was on the DigiTech Sound Pages last night and there was a guy who wrote about feeding the line in of his VL2 with recorded guitar and even basic keyboard and that working to give the music IQ the info it needs to generate correct harmony and allow him to focus on his singing.

I realize this is a thread on the VL2 but according to the VL4 manual, the VL4 has a scale mode that would allow you to use it accapella.

If you read this entire thread, which is amazingly informative, I think you cannot walk away without having all your questions answered.

Much success to you,

Michael

[Serjr]

Hi all
I know that almost all of you on this broad are pros, I am not in no since of the word. I played back in 68 to 73 with my brothers and have not done anything since. I wrote a song for my girl friend in 73 and never got to play it for her. Her 50th birthday was last Friday and I recorded her song and she got to hear it on her birthday for the first time. I used a Boss BR-600 and the VL2.

I played the three chords of the song for about 40 sec. Turn the guitar off and started singing to the back track, I had the VL2 only on unison 2 with effects and reverb turned on. The song turn out not bad for someone that had not sang in 35 years. This thing made me sound 100% better, God what will it do for someone who can really sing. Just my 2 cents
SerJr
http://www.myspace.com/samserjr

[Michael Angel]

Great story SerJr. Hopefully that VL2 will bring out a lot more from you in the years to come!

[orbm1]

Check this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QH4s-1OwsOc

it is a cool short review of the vocalist live 2

hope this helps

thanks :wave:

Omar

[gc24]

Nice video.

[gc24]

I get my VL4 tomorrow, so I will let you know how it goes.

[orbm1]

I get my VL4 tomorrow, so I will let you know how it goes.

I am waiting for somebody to give us first impressions about the vl4!!

I think I am getting mine this weekend...

I can not wait!

thanks :wave:

Omar :thu:

[gc24]

I'll give it ASAP, since I noticed that a few guys here have received it and not bothered to give us a report.

[Ontariomedic]

As previously stated, mine has in fact been shipped but I live in Northern Ontario Canada. After a couple of phone calls this morning, it would appear that my VL-4 is being processed at the border (cha-ching !!). I should get in a week or so.

Looking forward to giving everyone an in-depth review just as soon as I receive it !!

[Michael Angel]

Hey Guys,

Just an update, Musicians Friend just e-mailed me saying that according to the manufacturer it will be October 26 before they get my VL4. (I know Digitech is shipping so maybe I am so far down the preorder list I have to wait for another batch but for $399.95 I am willing to wait.)

Like everyone else I am looking forward to some real world reviews from those of you with the VL4 in hand.

Regardless, I imagine it will be anytime before Craig begins his official review. If I am not mistaken he has had his for a couple of weeks and his reviews are always in depth and top notch.

If anyone is interested I did find a VL4 review on the Musicians Friend website I had not seen before.

Be well,

Michael

[Omaha]

Just an update, Musicians Friend just e-mailed me saying that according to the manufacturer it will be October 26 before they get my VL4.

That sucks.

I'm in the same boat...I was hoping that the September 7 date they were advertising was going to stick. I guess not.

Does anyone have any inside info on this? Frankly, it does not sound good. This situation reeks of some kind of design/manufacturing problem that is causing them fits.

[Omaha]

I just got off the phone with MF customer support.

According to the girl I talked to, they are getting in a shipment on 9/14, and another on 10/26. At least that's the schedule.

I asked if my order would be filled from the 9/14 stock. She said that the 9/14 shipment would be enough to clear out all the existing back orders.

We'll see...

[orbm1]

Hey Guys,

Just an update, Musicians Friend just e-mailed me saying that according to the manufacturer it will be October 26 before they get my VL4. (I know Digitech is shipping so maybe I am so far down the preorder list I have to wait for another batch but for $399.95 I am willing to wait.)

Like everyone else I am looking forward to some real world reviews from those of you with the VL4 in hand.

Regardless, I imagine it will be anytime before Craig begins his official review. If I am not mistaken he has had his for a couple of weeks and his reviews are always in depth and top notch.

If anyone is interested I did find a VL4 review on the Musicians Friend website I had not seen before.

Be well,

Michael

I am in the same boat. Guitar center is still waitnig for them too....

one thing... Craig :poke: please... start a thread on the vl4 and give us some first impressions.... I do not know when will i get my vl4... but at least i want to know what is going on with this soooo hard to get gadget!....

Thanks :wave:

Omar :thu:

[gc24]

Ok, I received the VL4 late this afternoon but I haven't had alot od time to play around with it. What I did try though is I ran it through my amp since i don't have a PA( I borrow one when I play gigs for now), and I used the headphones as the guitar was too loud coming out of the amp to hear the harmonies. I need to tinker with the setup a bit. From what I did try which was the CSN, Eagles, 3rd above stuff, it sounded really good. You can ask me questions, but don't get real tech on me. LOL. I will post more tomorrow as I have a chance to work with it more.

[Michael Angel]

Way to jump right into the nitty gritty of it all gc24 and checking in with us so quickly. It sure is appreciated! What are your thoughts on the pitch correction?

[sventvkg]

Well I picked up the VL2 today and took it directly to my friends gig since I was off tonight. We plugged it in, I set it and away he went..It sounded fantastic...EVERYONE in the bar thought there was someone singing with him and we were both grinning from ear to ear. He and I were changing settings, messing with effects from tune to tune....Tried an eagles, tune with all 3 parts.....Sounded great..He did a bunch of originals and they sounded convincing as well. I disagree with those who say the harmonies sound a bit fake..We had it set no louder then volume 1/2 way and everyone in the crowd thought it sounded very natural..In fact I was going around telling everyone about the VL2 and explaining what they were hearing....I'm sold. Can't wait to use it myself for the first time at tomorrow night's gig!:thu:

[gc24]

Michael Angel: I haven't tried the pitch correction yet, but I will and report back to you. I am going to call Digitech as I have a few questions of my own. I can't compare it with the VL2 as I have only heard it on the demo and youtube, but it seems alot of the same and then again alot more in certain areas.

[orbm1]

Michael Angel: I haven't tried the pitch correction yet, but I will and report back to you. I am going to call Digitech as I have a few questions of my own. I can't compare it with the VL2 as I have only heard it on the demo and youtube, but it seems alot of the same and then again alot more in certain areas.

Thanks for starting to share some info with us about the vl4.

share your questions too!

Thanks again :wave:

Omar :thu:

[whinersmusic]

Just got an E-mail from Long and McQuade here in Toronto. My VL 4 (ordered last March) has arrived. I'm just heading out to pick it up and will be testing it this evening after work. I will certainly comment tomorrow. By the way, my price is $580 so you folks in the US of A are getting a deal at 399 bucks! No doubt the price could vary here by some 50 to 70 dollars here - maybe more but I'm not going to quibble at this stage.

[gc24]

This was given to me by Digitech: http://3dbresearch.com/index.htm

[whinersmusic]

Just got an E-mail from Long and McQuade here in Toronto. My VL 4 (ordered last March) has arrived. I'm just heading out to pick it up and will be testing it this evening after work. I will certainly comment tomorrow. By the way, my price is $580 so you folks in the US of A are getting a deal at 399 bucks! No doubt the price could vary here by some 50 to 70 dollars here - maybe more but I'm not going to quibble at this stage.

I always wanted to quote myself ... I just got back from my pick up of the unit and the store lowered the price to $499 Cdn - this is what they say is now their list price. So, it seems, rather than going up in Canada, the unit is going down. Original order was for the $580 as noted in my last post - this "lower" price seems more in order with the US price that's being discussed here. And note, fellow Canadians, the unit is arriving simultaneous to US arrival so that's good.

[PanchoStern]

I'm probably going to go buy a VL2 today. Found one for $329. I have a gig tonight but I doubt I'll use. Too risky to experiment live but I'll take it to the store & maybe play with over there to try it out. I don't sing so I'd be the guitar player & my singer Rosely of course the vocals. I'll post tommorow or after on our results. We have a duo so it would make a great addition.

[Michael Angel]

Man I am so pumped up! This technology is so amazing and it makes me feel like all these years I have spent working on my craft - songwriting, playing, and singing that God has been working behind the scenes inspiring people to create equipment that does things that was unimaginable twenty years ago.

You know that board game Othello? - its slogan is "a minute to learn and a lifetime to master." Well, I reread through the VL4 manual again last night and sure you can be up and running fast but it is incredible the depth you can go into to tweek the various harmony voices to make them even more life-like.

Congrats Keith and the new price and please everyone keep the feedback coming!

[gc24]

A few noticeables with the VL4, Don't get so hung up on the Guitar LED not showing green or amber if your playing an acoustic. You can change the sensitivity of it in the parameters if you want, but, it's not that important as long as it is receiving a signal. Also, make sure that between songs if you go to a song in another key, step on the Harmony pedal to erase it from the last song or you will get the leftovers from the last song's harmonies from that key. What will blow your mind is when you pick the preset for the gals and you suddenly are singing as a female. Very weird. More later.

[orbm1]

I just got off the phone with MF customer support.

According to the girl I talked to, they are getting in a shipment on 9/14, and another on 10/26. At least that's the schedule.

I asked if my order would be filled from the 9/14 stock. She said that the 9/14 shipment would be enough to clear out all the existing back orders.

We'll see...

I went to guitar center where I order my vl4 from (btw, they honored the $399 price and they gave me a $10 off to offset some of the taxes), and they told me that the shipment from Digitech will be on 10/10!!! :eek: so I will probably get mine within 5 days of delivery to the warehouse.... they told me to wait probably until 10/15...:cry:

Mr. Anderton, do you have any inside info on this issue???

I should have bought it from zzounds, they had it on stock until today, but they will not honor the 399 price... oh well....

by the way, gc24, thanks for the info!

thanks :wave:

Omar :thu:

[gc24]

BTW, As far as the Pitch correction goes, there is a preset that has that in it already besides a user edit.

[Anderton]

Just a heads-up: The VL4 Pro Review will start Monday!

[jfwong]

Just a heads-up: The VL4 Pro Review will start Monday!

YAaaaaaaaaaaY!

[gc24]

Here is a question for the guys with the VL2: In trying to achive the best setup for a sound system with the VL4, can you use just the VL4 and 2 powered speakers? That way you are using the VL4 as a mixer and will that produce stereo or do you have to have a mixer and speaker setup?

[PanchoStern]

I bought mine & only had about 150 - 15 minutes to try it out before I had to go gig.
ONe question I could NOT get my guitar to play through it. It's an acoustic electric with PASSIVE pickups. It does NOT use a battery. It would NOT work. As soon as I plugged in my boss's Epiphone Masterbilt it worked fine!:eek:Do I need a preamp for my pickup or something else before going into the VL2?
I plan on using it for next weeks gig so I need to work this out.

[orbm1]

Just a heads-up: The VL4 Pro Review will start Monday!

I am looking forward to it!!!! :cool:

Thanks Mr. Anderton :wave:

Omar :thu:

[mykad]

Looking forward to the review on Monday of the VL4. I FINALLY got a shipping confirmation from Musicians Friend so my VL4 on it's way. I'm so excited!!!

[whinersmusic]

First up:
The VL 4 unit is more sensitive to the guitar signal coming in - has a "hi"/"low" setting but clearly has more level than the VL 2. I checked this out with side by side tests and the signal on the VL 2 coming in from same guitar was lower (or shall we say received lower) than the VL 4. This included a test at both "hi" and "low" settings on the VL 4. Perhaps there was some tweaking going on with the units between manufacture of VL 2 to the VL 4. I note many people are finding what I found - the green light does not come on much with the guitar signal. This may not be an issue for users of the VL 4 but I kept my compressor in the flow (i.e. signal goes to the compressor before the VL 2 and, now, the VL 4). The addition of the compressor eliminates any issue on signal and does not impact negatively on the harmony generation.

GREEN LIGHT MATTERS!
I take issue with those who say it does not matter about the green light. Harmony is impacted if the signal is not "STRONG".

So, get your signal good and solid as you enter into the VL domain.

GENERAL REACTIONS
Reactions to the VL 4 are generally good. Really, it is the same concept as the VL 2 with two extra voice options. The user patches are great starting places and the "store" method makes sense. Any DigiTech user will recognize the DigiTech method/concept for store of patches.

MIXER
The added feature of using the VL 4 as a mixer is good but, sadly for me, you can't get your other effects into the loop. That means you can only go with the DigiTech guitar options. I haven't got way into those but am disappointed that you can't loop in your own array. So, I'm going guitar thru to my rack and into a mixer for guitar and leaving the guitar pot down on the VL 4.

Other people will probably comment on the guitar sounds inside the VL later. The signal is good on the mix though so I'm sure users wanting just a purer guitar sound etc will have no issues with using the VL 4 as a mixer.

HARMONY!
More to the sound for voices. I am finding it harder to get a good harmony out of the thing. I mentioned in another post that there is a latent harmony that seems to kick in when you are singing. Everything starts out great and all of sudden (really in micro seconds) one of the "voices" comes in a little off. I don't think it's me! I have a feeling the musicIQ thing is showing some limitations. Think of it as a drunk back up singer coming in a bit off and late. I hope that describes it well enough. On the VL 2, you get this too but, with the addition of two extra voices, it becomes a bit more noticeable.

With more experimentation, I suspect I can work around this a bit. I expected control over the actual mix of harmony and my own voice would be better (level) given that there are pots to control each (as well as guitar) in the mix.

So, you have three knobs rather than the one on the VL 2 to control the sound. Doesn't really give the same control as the TC Helicon does. The harmony is either too loud or not loud enough. Again, more use with the thing will help to dial in the best setting. I'm just saying it's not a lock necessarily. Here it might be useful to have a second body to do some adjusting while you are playing and singing.

Really you can't get the best set up if you keep bending down and up while trying to adjust things. Would be great if someone was adjusting as you go so you can say: "yeah, that's the balance!" Just a thought and if you have bandmates, put them to work on setting it up with you.

CHIPMUNKS
I mentioned in another post that the TC Helicon "high" voice effects are not that good (think: Chipmunks). Same with the VL 4. The 8 up setting (high octave) is a bit of a disappointment - just sounds bad and not credible as far as I'm concerned. Does not sound like a high back up singer at all (male or female choices aside) but you can adjust a bit of the mix of the voices into the settings so you may be able to bury it a bit and still give the feel of a much higher voice in the harmony. I think it's fair to say both the TC Helicon and the VL 4 show some limitations here in the higher range of harmony - they both sound generated and not that real. When you get to 3rds and 5ths however things are better.

MORE OPPORTUNITY
So you get a lot more opportunity to shape your harmony with the VL 4 over the VL 2 and you have the added feature of setting up patches to shift your "back up singers" as you go through a set. You can have "them" sing high, low and together and just foot select the process between songs. This is much easier than with the TC Helicon where you have to foot select during songs as well as before new songs. It is a bit of a subtle difference coming from the harmony being tracked by the guitar chords vs having to do key sets on the Helicon.

Now, the VL 4 does give this option (set your scale and key) and I haven't checked that out yet being I only started on it last night. I can talk about that later or someone else will. I expect it will do what the Helicon does with keys and scale. The big question will it equal the TC Helicon in this area?

PITCH CORRECTION
I did try pitch correction and it seems to do what you expect. Again, settings here are really important. Too much or too little can give bad output as the unit reacts to you being off key. I did find the correction pretty good though and compares favourably to the Helicon. But, I want to experiment more on it before a definitive thumbs up on this. Ideally, you want to sing on pitch anyway and shouldn't want to rely on pitch correction. I think that should be your goal anyway.

The other effects offered such as reverb are ok. You have more control over setting these up - haven't had enough time to experiment with them all. The unit adds delay to your options which is nice for those who like reverb and delay.

HARMONY ON/OFF BONUS
For me, the bonus was discovering that you have a choice on how you can control the harmony on/off with the foot switch itself. You can set it to come on only while you have your foot on it (as opposed to switch on, then switch off). This helps the issue I talked about in another post where you may get confused whether you left harmony on or off while going through your song. (You can't always look down and see that little light on the unit while singing and looking up and out to the crowd). With the harmony switch set to come on only while your foot is on it, you know where you are at all times. No foot on the switch - no harmony. I'm also glad there is an expression pedal option which lets you select a number of options for the pedal. I found my expression pedal worked on it just fine but the volume pedal that worked fine on the TC Helicon unit does not work on the VL 4. Must be a resistor issue or something.

I'm going to have to issue this review in two posts so look for part 2.

[whinersmusic]

:poke:

Be sure to read Part 1 below this post I hope before you read this one ...

OTHER INPUTS
There is a lot more to check out on the unit including the Mp3/CD input which adds another line in if you think about it. You can control the sound for this input at the source so it has to be a pre-mix set really. I mention this for anyone who uses vocal effects like I do. I use a BOSS looper and I may try bringing the sound from this through the aux input.

There is a headphone out as well (didn't try it yet) so, for those of us in apartments or who want to practice in silence, it may be useful.

LEVELS AND DISTORTION
I found on the VL 2 that distortion when the harmony comes on is likely. You can have a great lead vocal signal adjusted and as soon as you step on the harmony pedal, the level is bumped up and you get distortion.

I was hoping control over the separate harmony and lead vocals would eliminate this tendency. It isn't quite as bad but there still is a noticeable increase in level. Think of it as if your harmony back ups are too close to the mic and the level is a a tad jarring as the harmony comes in. I've found backing away from the mic as you bring in the harmony helps prevent the "jarring" a bit. I do not find this an issue with the TC Helicon. But I have found that the Helicon has output level issues too. Especially in recording.

The sound will distort unless you work at getting a perfect balance in harmony and lead (requires individual harmony voice level adjustments on the Helicon). I haven't had enough time to play with the harmony levels with the VL 4 to see if I can get a better adjustment on their actual output but I expect you can. clearly, the "jarring" is not as bad on the VL 4 as on the VL 2.

I do think there is a manufacturer adjustment made on the units as part of the process. This is akin to pedals you get where, when you engage them, the sound is "uped". It's a mindset of the manufacturer to have the pedal do it and it drives me crazy! I think DigiTech has designed the unit so, when harmony comes on, it's a higher output period and there is nothing you can do about it except back off the mic.

And I'm being quite picky when I say all this. To me, though, you want the unit to behave as professionally as possible. So, the analogy to real back up singers being too close to the mic is a good one. This is especially an issue in recording. I do find some of these issues are masked a bit in a live setting. Room sound alone (let alone people chatting away), often makes these "imperfect" sounds not even noticeable.

RECORDING AND GIGGING
I mention all the above though in case you are thinking of recording with the unit. My first impressions are that you have better results with the TC Helicon on everything from hiss (and there is some from the VL 4) to actual control of the harmony levels. That being said, I need more time to really do side by side tests.

My fear going in was that the DigiTech folks would take the simplicity of the VL 2 and add in a bunch of things that would take away this value. I can say they haven't and they have.

I'm pretty sure I'm going to continue to gig with the VL 2. The VL 4 gives me more range but at a price in size and a few other things.

I'm pretty sure there are many of you who don't gig with extra guitar effects or vocal effects as part of your show or "sound". If this is the case for you, I do believe you will find that the VL 4 is great since it gives you everything you would want in the one package. I plan to experiment with the chorus and tremolo in particular. They may be great things.

For me though, my efforts in finding pedals that give me exactly what I want have taken me years. I use a rack that is very involved and space is really an issue for me as is how the guitar sound gets to the mixer.

So, with the double width of the VL 4 (over the VL 2), I have a space issue already on the portable rack. In my Band in a Box, not such an issue as the unit fits nicely into the bottom of the case. I can't see the settings when I do this however.

At any rate, the vocal unit will do what I want it to do and clearly, when gigging, I will be using the VL 2 and, on the big gigs when it makes sense to bring out the full Band in the Box, the VL 4.

Both units are way more gig friendly than the TC Helicon. To me, this is key issue when it comes to gigging. It looks very much like you will be able to do the extras provided by the Helicon with the VL 4 and have an easier time of it live.

CAUTION
The only caution I would say is to try and not let the bells and whistles interfere with the actual delivery of your material. Many people have said to me: "the extra harmony is great but it can take away from "you"."

So, if you plan to use it on every song ... on every verse and chorus ... you'll be spending a lot of time switching patches and worrying about the wrong things.

That has nothing to do with the performance of the unit(s), but everything to do with the results you get. In a way, I'm glad I got the TC Helicon unit first as I've discovered (and played) with the effects enough to have visited this dark side of the performer obsessed with effects! Now, I think I can use the VL 4 and VL 2 to a better purpose with subtlety and taste.

So, more later, and always interested in others reviews and reactions. Thanks for reading!

[PanchoStern]

Well I just got back from the store. We tried it out (the VL2) & it is the REAL DEAL!!:thu:I can't wait to use it live. I was truly impressed that the harmonies didn't sound cheesy or really "fake" sounding in any way. As a duo this will be a great addition to our sound. Looking forward to really digging in. I'm even thinking perhaps of purchasing a VL4 by Christmas if things keeps up. Great is all I can say.

[gc24]

I disagree with your comment about having to make sure that the Green LED is showing for the guitar levels. The Techs have told me that the thresholds were probably set a bit too high for it and they talked about a knob to adjust fo that, but maybe in the next model. Anyway, I have found no difference if I turn up it up to show green or not. I play a Taylor 814 CE with an Expression System, so maybe it's just an individual thing with different acoustic guitars. I think the VL4 is a great adjunct to any solo performer who doesn't have to get every piece of equipment out there to make this sound and that sound. Just keep it simple. If you don't need the bells and whisltes, stick with the Vl2, otherwise the Vl4 is really nice, and alot of people that we all play to in small gigs will notice it.

[whinersmusic]

I disagree with your comment about having to make sure that the Green LED is showing for the guitar levels. The Techs have told me that the thresholds were probably set a bit too high for it and they talked about a knob to adjust fo that, but maybe in the next model. Anyway, I have found no difference if I turn up it up to show green or not. I play a Taylor 814 CE with an Expression System, so maybe it's just an individual thing with different acoustic guitars. I think the VL4 is a great adjunct to any solo performer who doesn't have to get every piece of equipment out there to make this sound and that sound. Just keep it simple. If you don't need the bells and whisltes, stick with the Vl2, otherwise the Vl4 is really nice, and alot of people that we all play to in small gigs will notice it.

No doubt different guitars are going to put out a different output. Just for the record, I've tried Gibson acoustics with Fishmen undersaddle pickups (both Natural 1 and Natural 2 versions on two separate guitars). On the electric front, Two Gibson SGs - one with more active pickups and a Fender Telecaster. All of these required the bump up from compression or some other boost. The compression seemed the best fit from a "no colour" stand point. I have two VL 2 units purchased from two different stores at different months so they would be at least somewhat different batches. But, perhaps there is a variable in the units anyway - some less finicky than others perhaps.

I just want to be clear that the incoming signal appears to be an issue for a lot of folks myself included and it is for these folks that I suggest they bump it up. Doesn't mean the unit is bad, just not set right for a lot of guitars out there be they new, expensive or whatever.

For sure the VL 4 does not have the same issue as I indicated in posts. So, this fact and the comment form DigiTech, confirms that they may have made a high threshold or whatever on their setting for the VL 2. A knob that gives you some gain would solve the problem for all of us.

I also have found that the harmony is much weaker with a weaker signal. Just isn't as precise and is noticeable. But, if you are good to go on your unit as it comes out of the Taylor, then fabulous.

Give us more intimate reaction to the VL 4 so we can compare notes ...

[Michael Angel]

Keith,

Excellent reviews! Thank you.

Quick question. You said, "I mentioned in another post that there is a latent harmony that seems to kick in when you are singing. Everything starts out great and all of sudden (really in micro seconds) one of the "voices" comes in a little off. I don't think it's me! I have a feeling the musicIQ thing is showing some limitations. Think of it as a drunk back up singer coming in a bit off and late. I hope that describes it well enough. On the VL 2, you get this too but, with the addition of two extra voices, it becomes a bit more noticeable."

On page 20 of the VL4 manual it breaks down the "Voce Styles" that include time decoupling and then a seperate setting for "Style Amount." I am curious if tweeking those has any affect on the latent harmonies you are experiencing?

Michael

[whinersmusic]

Keith, ...
On page 20 of the VL4 manual it breaks down the "Voce Styles" that include time decoupling and then a seperate setting for "Style Amount." I am curious if tweeking those has any affect on the latent harmonies you are experiencing?

Michael

A good question. I've noticed the latency on both the VL 2 and, last night , on my first experience with the VL 4. Now, maybe the VL 4 will allow some tweaking of this very thing! For sure there is nothing you can do on the VL 2! I will check this very thing out as I play some more with it. Like to be able to sober up the "drunk voice" indeed if at all possible.

MOIRE DETAILS ON THIS
I should also add that I'm wondering if anyone else is hearing this kind of effect on their harmony? It could very well be a stylistic thing where in it is actually supposed to sound that way :freak: I may very well be a little off pitch and the harmony isn't. (I will be experimenting more with pitch correction for sure) But, I find it odd that it's not all the voices are having the issue. You'd expect them all to sound on (or off) pitch and not just one. That's why I'm a bit confused as to the reason. I do suspect it may be an outcome of the programming itself that generates the harmony. Almost a byproduct of what happens with so much going on behind the scenes inside the little beast.

It is something that occurs as you change chords most often. I've tried striking the chord before singing and it doesn't always correct the harmony that's out. That leads me to believe it's an issue inside the programming itself. It can't figure it out as quick as needed. Another way to hear what I'm talking about is to just sing without playing. You get this wide spread on the harmony with one of the voices most notably off the mark. So is it a memory issue or a tracking issue or just an "I can't read where you are going on the chord so fast" issue at the unit? I do note the manual talks about 3rds and 5ths being kind of a loose 3rd and 5th so perhaps that's what they mean. The unit's interpretation of what you want and what it gives you are not exactly what you really want.

My vocal instructor has pointed out that when it comes to harmony some notes don't really want a harmony off the root note but sound better as something else other than the root. I think I hear this latent or lagging or drunk harmony when this might be the case. I'm just not good enough to know what is and what isn't up with all that. And, that's the reason I want to use the unit in the first place.

However I can see some problems on using the unit in the songs where, ironically, the TC Helicon sounded better with my programming of the song. This is where the added option of going scale and key (on the VL 4) may be worth the extra dollars over the VL 2.

[Michael Angel]

Keith,

Under Voice Styles 5. VST MIXED it says, "When there is more than one harmony voice on, this style sends a mix of the the first four styles to the individual harmony voices." That mix includes not only pitch and time decoupling but scoops. Seems that would affect perhaps one of the harmony voices more than the others making it stand out in maybe not such a good way. But hey, for just getting the thing I can't believe how in depth you have already gotten. I really appreaciate you sharing what you are doing and discovering with all of us.

On a different note, I was a bit concerned about the "hiss" you described. I am sure you probably already played with the "guitar ground lift" button on the back. Did it make any difference? Do you think it is something an electric line conditioner could improve or does it seem to be internal to the VL4? Do you get the hiss noise on all settings?

Thanks,

Michael

[orbm1]

There are a lot of info here about the vl4!

Thanks guys!

Omar

[whinersmusic]

Keith,

On a different note, I was a bit concerned about the "hiss" you described. I am sure you probably already played with the "guitar ground lift" button on the back. Did it make any difference? Do you think it is something an electric line conditioner could improve or does it seem to be internal to the VL4? Do you get the hiss noise on all settings?

Thanks,

Michael

I'll surely look into the decoupling aspect in terms of the settings available. There is much more that can be set on the VL 4. As to the "hiss" it's actually not from the guitar but from the mic itself. I tried a side by side test of just straight mic into the board vs. the mic through the unit to the board. The addition of the unit adds more hiss. I varied with test on different compression levels and, the less compression (or none) the less hiss. The gate cuts down the hiss by the way but, when the gate opens up the hiss is there.

Now, for recording this bothers me since you can hear the opening of the gate (sometimes on no vocals at all but from the guitar sounds. Experiments with closing off the gate - the VL 4 allows this - were a bit edgy. The best setting made me have to force on my vocal so to speak by using a lot more intensity than I wanted to cut through the gate. The next setting still had issues with room sound opening the gate. The settings go in groups of 20 if I remember right. So I tried 60 / 40 / 20. 60 almost ok as was 40 but both not perfect. Kind of like the three bears thing. Give me a 50 or individual clicks to reach the absolute best setting.

This is most noticeable on your quiet parts. If you are tracking guitar alone then re-doing your vocal later, you probably won't find it as annoying but I'm demoing more off the floor and I find, on playback, you can hear the hiss there to a greater extent than I think you'd want.

I'm recording direct to mini disc and I've tried using all digital out to CD as well. My mixer is an Alesis and is quite quiet. The mic direct in proves that as does the guitar signal in. So, it would seem to be an issue of the VL 4 (and the VL2 as well) having a bit of noise coming from the mic input/output. Comparing to the TC Helicon, the Helicon is quieter - again, side by side tests through the same mixer show that. I also tried the line outs instead of XLR and it makes no difference to the actual hiss.

I have some power conditioning in play at my system and there is a lot going on when I bring everything into play. That's why I tried this last night in its most basic set up with just guitar into and out of the unit and mic in and out with none of my other stuff.

For live, it really isn't something to worry about but, if you want quiet when the song is supposed to be quiet on recording, then it isn't quite there on the VL 2 or 4.

I would say any of the hum is probably my issue but the hiss is the machine's issue. On a scale of 1 to 10 with 10 being really loud hiss, the unit is probably a 4 or 5. Not impossible but noticeable. The Helicon would be in the 2 or 3 zone to compare. Just a bit less of an issue on quiet parts or end of song sustains.

Oh yeah, I did try the ground lift and it didn't address hiss just a bit of hum. The hiss is consistent no matter what the setting. More really just from bringing up the pot with mic on and harmony on or off. At least adding harmony is not adding more hiss. That is important to say.

[Michael Angel]

Thanks Keith for the quick response.

[gc24]

Keith, Yea, you may be right that the signal if it's low may produce a weaker harmony, remember, I am playing it through a guitar amp as I stated before as I don't have a PA yet, so it's hard to adjust the sound right. Still sounds ok. I find that I fall on using much of the same presets alot. Maybe 4-5 of them and also the VSt Gals.

[gc24]

Anyone figure out yet the quickest way to erase the harmony when you switch to another song with a different key?

[Michael Angel]

Check the top of page 13 in the VL4 manual gc24. You simply enter and then exit the Tuner and it clears the 30 second musIQ memory.

[Michael Angel]

Keith,

Regarding the hiss, you might want to try turning up the Mic/Line Input Level knob on the back of the VL4 just a bit to see if it doesn't reduce or perhaps even eliminate the problem.

Michael

[gc24]

ok, thanks.

[gc24]

Anyone found out how to turn on and off the Stereo chorus in the user edits for the Vl4?

[GlennGalen]

I've been really impressed with the VL4.

I find that the thing really is an instrument that has to be learned. I've been focusing on using it in my recording first. And in this setting I turn the main vocal way down, and just send the harmonies to the DAW. I play the guitar chords to "shape" the harmonies. My brain is starting to learn what the harmonies do with what chord types, and this gets really powerful when you start "ad libbing" as your own backup singers this way.

I have been disappointed with the pitch correction. Even when I try setting it to minimal, it still adds a "processed sound" to the vocal. Kind of a chorusing effect.

At first I thought the "chorusing" was just the difference between what I hear inside my skull from my natural voice blended with the small difference that my ears hear coming from the corrected vocal from the speakers.

But I hear it in a recording, too. And my wife could hear it too when she was listening to me sing live.

Maybe there is something I am not adjusting right...but I tried setting amount and rate to 10-15 each and still heard it almost as much as when these are set up near 99.

But overall a great unit.

I found that a "high harmony" can sound good if I shift my main vocal up an octave and get rid of any "8U" voices and stick with 3rds and 5ths...then the falsetto harmony sounds less chipmunk like...but I am limited to how well I can go up an octave with my main voice! Kind of a strain sometimes, and bad for my vocal chords.


I am looking forward to Craig's in depth review starting Monday, the 17th.

[gc24]

I agree that the PC is a bit weird, not sure if we are doing it right or not. Need to ask the techs. I have basically stuck with the presets and sometimes use the Harmony voice style VST Gals may be for some Vince Gill stuff. I like the preset # 19 for Crazy Love by Poco and # 10 for White Bird by It's a beautiful day as an example.

[geckoland]

Hi Everyone,

I just got my VL 4 on Friday, and overall, I am REALLY enjoying it. I have mainly just been going through the presets, which are quite good, but I have also been playing around with a few parameters in the presets, and I must say that this unit is very intuitive and easy to use. The matrix layout of all the parameters makes it very easy to see what you can change and actually get there and make mods. I think the product strikes a nice balance between simplicity (i.e. ease of use) and tweakability.

First of all, the harmony power of this thing is amazing. I really like being able to tweak the quality of the harmony voices (which is not possible in the VL 2). As was mentioned before the Voice Styles allow you to change the time and pitch decoupling (as well as gender) of the harmony voices. This really does add an element of realism to the voices. I typically like to turn the voice style amount down while singing live since I don't like the extra latency that gets added to the harmony voices, but for recording I actually like to turn it up a bit since the voices sound more real. The extra two voices compared to VL 2 aren't a big deal for me, since I typically like the sound of just one harmony voice, or at most two. It should be noted that you can tweak the quality of the harmony voices more with a TC-Helicon Voice Live, as I have recently found out, but it is more difficult to figure out and get good results. I find the VL 4 gives me all the control I want, but if you really like to tweak parameters, you may be disappointed with the VL 4.

The next thing that blew me away was the lead voice processing. You can create a pretty amazing radio voice with this thing, which I plan on using for the chorus of one of my songs, but there are also a ton of other things you can do to your lead voice. An interesting one for me is a persona style called "BIG". I turned this on with the amount set to about 15-20 and it really does add a nice quality to my voice. I'm not sure what is happening here, but it really is a nice effect. I wish my voice sounded like that all the time!

I also tried the Pitch Correct which I thought was pretty darn good. I have used a bunch of other pitch correct units (Helicon Voice Live, Antares, ok ok, I guess I am admiting something here ...), and I think this is one of the best sounding pitch correct units I have used. I have to agree with Glenn that if I listen closely I can hear that my voice is being processed, but I think it is pretty subtle if the parameters are set properly. It is certainly no worse than any of the other units I have used. I sure would not be able to tell in a mix. Glenn, is it possible that some other effect was on as well as pitch correct when you heard the "chorusing" sound?

I feel like I am just getting into this product. There is still lots to try and experiment with!

Geckoland

PS I hear the hiss that Keith was talking about, but it is no worse than the VL 2, and actually quite a bit better than most of my other gear. I definitely have no complaints in this regard.

[ihateyouguys]

First of all, the harmony power of this thing is amazing. I really like being able to tweak the quality of the harmony voices (which is not possible in the VL 2). As was mentioned before the Voice Styles allow you to change the time and pitch decoupling (as well as gender) of the harmony voices. This really does add an element of realism to the voices.

That's good to hear. Frankly, I've been disappointed in every sample of the VL2 I've heard online, especially when I compared it to what I've heard the tc voicelive do. The tc sounds very close to real harmony singing, while the VL2 has sounded like a lead with a couple of pitch shifted copies of the lead vocal added on.

I'll be eagerly awaiting the arrival of some VL4 clips.

[Michael Angel]

Geckoland,

Do you have any recommendations on the best ways to set the parameters properly to get the most realistic sounding pitch correction? What has been working best for you?

[gc24]

Yea, Gecko, what are your settings for the Pitch Correction to get it sounding good? Also, are you talking about the # 5 Big in Persona?

[geckoland]

Hi Michael and GC24,

I started with preset 32 called "Gold PC". This preset has a bunch of other stuff on besides pitch correction, like the tube pre-amp, some de-ess, some compression, some EQ and some reverb. It is essentially preset 31 "Gold Chan" with pitch correction on. However, non of these other effects should give your voice a chorus sound. Just to be sure, I turned them all off, but I like the sound better with them on. You know they are off when you are in the preset mode (i.e. not editing any rows) and the only LED that is on is the pitch correction row.

The parameters for changing the pitch correction are pretty much the same as they are on the Helicon VoiceLive, which I had used a lot before, and thus I found it pretty easy to set up. The first parameter is Type which you can set to Chromatic, Major, Natural Minor, Melodic Minor, Harmonic Minor, and then a bunch of other scales that I am not that familiar with. The second parameter is Key, which can be C, C#, through to B. The combination of these two parameters tells you what notes the unit will correct to. If you choose Chromatic for the Type, then the unit will correct to all 12 chromatic notes, and key doesn't matter. However, if you set type to Major, and Key to C, then the unit will only correct to notes in C Major (i.e. no accidentals). The easiest thing to do is leave it on Chromatic since then it will work for any song you do. It is handy to set it to the actual key and scale the song is in if you need a lot of help since then it won't let you sing notes outside of the scale.

I prefer to leave it on Chromatic, and then the next most important parameter is rate, which controls how fast the unit corrects your voice to the note. The higher the value of the rate parameter, the faster it will slam your voice to the note, but also, the more unnatural it will sound. The preset value for rate is 30, which I find a bit high. I like to set the rate to somewhere between 15 and 30, depending on how well I know the song. When the rate is low, then the unit really only corrects your pitch for long sustained notes and doesn't do much for shorter notes.

The other parameters are Window and Amount. They both are set to 99 in the preset and I suggest leaving them there. I have never been able to make much sense out of the Amount parameter in VoiceLive and according to the manual it seems it behaves the same way in the VL 4. The window parameter is handy because it allows you to only correct your voice if you are within a certain range from the actual note. If you are using a sparse scale with only a few notes, you will definitely want to turn the window down so that the unit is not always trying to correct you to those notes - only when you get close to them. However, if you are using a Chromatic scale or even a major or minor scale you might as well leave it at 99.

While I no longer have a VoiceLive (I can borrow one from a friend though), I find the Pitch correction on the VL4 more transparent than the VoiceLive. There was always a swirling sound on the VoiceLive that annoyed me; it doesn;t seem to be on the VL 4. However it is still possible to make the VL 4 sound bad. Try singing right in between two notes in the scale. The result is that the unit oscillates back and forth first correcting to the one note and then the other. This is obviously most noticeable when the rate is high.

Glenn, I have not yet been able to get a chorus sound except by accident when I accidently mixed some of my dry mic with my pitch corrected voice from the VL 4. Once I turned my dry MIC down on my mixer, the chorus sound went away. Is there any chance that this is also happening to you?

I hope this helps. It is a little embarassing that I know so much about pitch correction. I should never admit to this!

Geckoland

PS GC24, yes I was referring to persona # 5 "BIG" in my previous post

[gc24]

Thanks, I will have to try that out and report back. Here is one for you, this is bugging me. Can anyone figure out what preset or user edit might work for this song. They use a Capo 3 and I don't use it at all on this song. I have settled on preset #21 right now for this but if you find a better one or combo in the user, please let me know. I assume that the Gold PC is for when you are singing with out any harmony?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GF9768pF6hA

[GlennGalen]

I'll have to check if I am getting leakage of the dry mic sound.

The "chorusing" I am talking about is actually very much like the effect on the vocals in this video that was posted:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GF9768pF6hA

Not a huge chorus, but certainly not a natural acoustic-sounding vocal.

[Michael Angel]

Great info Geckoland. I really appreciate it! Thank you.

[orbm1]

I do not know if this is my imagination or not.... yesterday at church i wanted to try having more green led light in my vocals when I sing, so i put more gain to the input line.... again, i might be wrong, but it sounded like it not only my vocals sounded better, but also, my guitar had more punch and volume, i notice this because i play a cordoba nylon electro-acustic with piezo and the signal has been somewhat weak compare to an electric... yesterday, i needed to reduce the gain not only to my vocals in the PA, but also to the guitar....

anybody noticed this too?

Thanks! :wave:

Omar :thu:

[whinersmusic]

... yesterday, i needed to reduce the gain not only to my vocals in the PA, but also to the guitar....

anybody noticed this too?

I have experienced this where I figure all is set and well and come back the next day and it all seems off. This is only on the vocal side though ... haven't heard any variance on the guitar but my signal is good and strong on that side. I do find distortion on the vocal side (with harmony in particular) if green light (vocal) is too hot. I keep it lower but do have to adjust.

I've been accounting for this as "different mood syndrome". I figure I'm just singing with more intensity one day over another. But I have to admit there have been some wide adjustments one day over the next. That does seem a bit odd.

More VL 4 bits and pieces
The harmony level on the expression pedal is just that - a level. I kind of freaked out a bit thinking that I already set the level (balance) on the unit but was getting way too hot harmony as I brought the pedal in. Took me a few to realize that the pedal overrides the harmony level setup at the unit. Would actually prefer to have that level stay set and the pedal bring in the harmony up to that level but it is not the case. '

I'm also finding the sweetest settings are the Eaglets 2 and 3 and CSN (which is, it seems, is the equal of the "up" harmonies on the VL 2).

Frustrating a bit that you can't universal the reverb and compression settings - am I missing something? I had to adjust each and every pre-set for these.

I also find the actual knob adjustments the same issues with the Helicon - the knobs give a "too slow" or way "too fast" kind of adjustment. Dialing it in is just a bit more frustrating in that side.

On both units but more noticeable on the VL 4 with more voices
It doesn't seem that the memory is all that good on singing over a chord. Anyone else finding it to be a little less than good as you sing out over the chord, say, at the end of the song? Just kind of loses track it seems to me.

My theory here is your breath affects the harmony as well as the chord. Stronger breath into the note and the harmony is much better. As you trail off on the end of a tune (deliberately) the harmony kind of gives up on you. Yet, if you belt it out, it is better. Trouble with that is you tend to overstate the vocal and that isn't always cool. I thought you'd get a 30 sec memory of the actual end chord and the harmony would track for at least that. More like 10 seconds in actual practice.

[gc24]

I found that also. You have to finish off and hold the note or if you fade, so does the harmony.

[GlennGalen]

I also have experienced the "deflation of the backup singers" if my vocal trails off. :cry:

[gc24]

How do you keep a reverb setting of say, Stadium on for the whole set or night without having to always set it after every song?

[jfwong]

Just reminded me about Anderton . . . So where's the review? :confused:

I agree! I just found out my VL4 is on backorder until October 1st so I want to see some reviews... there are practically none on all of the internet. Boo!

[ihateyouguys]

I agree! I just found out my VL4 is on backorder until October 1st so I want to see some reviews... there are practically none on all of the internet. Boo!

I'd like to see the new thread so we can do some Q&A on specific vl4 features with people who have one.

[Ontariomedic]

Just a heads-up: The VL4 Pro Review will start Monday!


I can't find it !!...HELP !!!

[Anderton]

Re the VL4 review...some personal issues got in the way of starting on schedule. I'm taking the photos now and when the thread starts in a few hours, I should be able to move the VL4 posts over there so they're all in one place.

[SoloArtist]

Re the VL4 review...some personal issues got in the way of starting on schedule. I'm taking the photos now and when the thread starts in a few hours, I should be able to move the VL4 posts over there so they're all in one place.


Hi Anderton,

I also review audio-technical equipment and know it is not always possible to meet my article deadlines. Things happen. However, I like many on this thread have the VL2 and maybe also have the VL4 on backorder. Getting a headstart on some of the nuances of this new unit will save us an enormous amount of time and frustration.

The VL2 rocks, that's for sure but part of its beauty is that it is a performer's tool. In a recording situation, the TC-Helicon may be more applicable. Still I've gigged with the VL2 and it performed as hard as I did. No complaints. So I'm looking for even more from the VL4 without sacrificing the easy, spontaneous addition of vocal harmonies I've gotten with the VL2. I have an appearance tonight but no matter how late I get in, I will be checking back to see what ya' got!

Thanks again,


Soloartist

[Anderton]

The VL4 review is happening...that's the good news. The bad news is I copied over some of the great posts in this thread, and while it appeared they copied over okay, when I refreshed the page the original thread AND the posts were gone. That definitely sucks...oh well, I re-started the thread and we should be okay going forward. Not sure how to get the old posts back, though, which is a real shame.

[BeowulfKingsley]

Pardon me, but I've read most of this thread and I'm still not sure...are there seperate outs on the VL2 for the harmony voices? I know this is a unit primarily for live work, but it would be nice to have the ability to use it in studio for demo work...I'd just like to be able to move the harmony voices around in the stereo field. Any possibility of that?

[Anderton]

Pardon me, but I've read most of this thread and I'm still not sure...are there seperate outs on the VL2 for the harmony voices? I know this is a unit primarily for live work, but it would be nice to have the ability to use it in studio for demo work...I'd just like to be able to move the harmony voices around in the stereo field. Any possibility of that?

Not with the VL2, as the harmony level control adds harmony to the straight vocal; it's not a balance control (i.e., full harmony at one extreme, full dry vocal at the other).

But with the VL4, you can have separate mixes of the dry and harmony vocals. So if you wanted only harmonies in the outs, you'd turn down the dry level, and turn up the harmony level.

[geckoland]

Not with the VL2, as the harmony level control adds harmony to the straight vocal; it's not a balance control (i.e., full harmony at one extreme, full dry vocal at the other).

But with the VL4, you can have separate mixes of the dry and harmony vocals. So if you wanted only harmonies in the outs, you'd turn down the dry level, and turn up the harmony level.

Maybe I am missing something here, but on my VL2 if I turn the mix knob all the way to the right, I get just the harmony voices without any dry. In my setup, my mic plugged into my mixer and I applied reverb and delay effects to my lead voice using an AUX send to a Lexicon MX200. I then sent the MIC signal to the VL2 line in using a partial insert on my MACKIE mixer, which taps the mic signal post pre-amp, but pre-EQ etc. and then took the output of the VL2 and ran it into a separate channel in my mixer. This was a great setup because I could process the lead and harmonies differently and mix them right on my mixer.

Note that you do not have control of the harmony voice pans though. I don't think you have pan control of the harmonies on the VL 4 either. However, you certainly could record 1 harmony voice at a time and play around with the pans afterwards on both the VL2 and the VL4.

Geckoland

[PanchoStern]

SOorry I hadn't posted again but we used the Live 2 on our gig last Wed. it was GREAT!!! We got a lOT of compliments out our sound. :thu:I was still unable to play my regular guitar through it though & had to use a backup. Good thing I HAD a backup with me.
Currently using the resonance on the voice & room reverb. Rosely changes the presets depending on the song. She chose her own & she controls it not me so that's cool. Anyways it is the REAL deal. We had so much more feedback from this one gig than the other's combined. Surprising but then again when you are a duet suddenly having 2 backup vocalists doing harmony would improve your sound. All I can say it's the READ DEAL!!:thu:Getting tempted to perhaps upgrade to the Live 4 by Christmas.

[geckoland]

Hi Everyone,

I posted this on the VL 4 forum, but I thought I would repeat it here since it applies to the VL2 XLR out as well.

-----------

My friend just got his VL 4 yesterday and asked me to come over and help him with his setup. He was having trouble with his sound quality. He said he was getting some distortion and couldn't figure out why. Well, when I got there, the answer was clear - He was taking the XLR out from the VL4 and plugging that into his microphone pre-amp, which made sense to him because that is where he plugged his XLR mic cable in before he got the VL4.

THE VL4 XLR OUT JACKS ARE LINE LEVEL - NOT MIC LEVEL

I changed his setup to use the 1/4" outs right into his mixer and everything worked fine. Alternatively he could have used an XLR to 1/4" cable and used the XLR outs, but he didn't have a cable like that.

From reading other posts, it seems that this is a common problem that people are having (admittedly I did the same thing and had to read the manual to figure out what was going on), so remember

DO NOT PLUG THE XLR OUTPUTS FROM THE VL4 INTO A MIC PRE-AMP - THEY SHOULD GO INTO A LINE LEVEL INPUT.

Hope this prevents a headache or two for a few people.

Happy VL4ing

Geckoland

[minstrel29]

My band does a lot of Jethro Tull covers. I just tried the vocalist with the song Heavy Horses which has a lot of Ian Anderson harmony.

THIS THING IS AMAZING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I just used the TENORS preset, added a bit of PC and VOILA!

Its So COOL!

Bill

[minstrel29]

My band does a lot of Jethro Tull covers. I just tried the vocalist with the song Heavy Horses which has a lot of Ian Anderson harmony.

THIS THING IS AMAZING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I just used the TENORS preset, added a bit of PC and VOILA!

Its So COOL!

Bill

sorry but this was meant for the VL4 forum

[sloane]

Greetings,

I LOVE this machine. It has really added to the live performance. But my question has to do with using it in the studio. I'm hoping it'll save time and trouble for projects. There is that slightly annoying high end hiss but I digress...

I may have missed it, but is anyone using their uber cool Vocalist 4 as background singers in the studio? What is your process?

Are you playing a guitar live while also singing? Are you running the "recorded" acoustic guitar (or piano track) into the Vocalist 4 and singing with the "studio singers?"

Thanks

[orbm1]

Greetings,

I LOVE this machine. It has really added to the live performance. But my question has to do with using it in the studio. I'm hoping it'll save time and trouble for projects. There is that slightly annoying high end hiss but I digress...

I may have missed it, but is anyone using their uber cool Vocalist 4 as background singers in the studio? What is your process?

Are you playing a guitar live while also singing? Are you running the "recorded" acoustic guitar (or piano track) into the Vocalist 4 and singing with the "studio singers?"

Thanks

I suggest you to put your inquiry on the vl4 review, because this is for the vocalist live 2. In the other one you may get all the feedback you need.

here is the address:

http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1750015

Hope this helps. :wave:

Omar :thu:

[Rojoyinc]

I heard of this - saw raves - got the VL4 - LOVE IT.
I just play and sing for fun, well I often didn't sing... I don't have any quality... and I'm a bit off in pitch (Not tone def thank God) I can hear it's off... just off... I got the "4" for the pitch correction and LOVE IT.

A few questions and comments.

1. My guitar input seems weak. I tried 4-5 guitars and all the same. ITS never yellow or red - just OFF or green... Is that normal? or is my input defective? It seems to work fine. Is this how yours all work? (guitar must be MAXED to even get an occational green input level). This "MAX" kills the volumne control of our "tone" (turning guitar up for more distortion, turning volume down a bit to cleaner tone).

2. I use it in and out - to PodXTL - working well! I Love the VL4 - it allows me to actually like how I sound! Using the ELIVIS (though not a fan - he did have awesome tone to his voice) and It's amazing how close I can sound like him. Made me want to play "love me tender". Not something I'd want to learn... but it's awesome. Also doing Eagles tunes because they have nice harmony.

Only complaints and "I just got it" so maybe I'm missing something.
I see some presents work well (Elvis - bob not to bad)
But isn't it a WASTE to have chip and Robot and GIANT - I mean aren't they so far out - they're not viably commercial sounding - in that they're not useful other than (to play and laugh at them)?

why not have more "real voices" programmed in? For example - I get a nice Eagles sound, but my voice is lower than Glen Fry's or Henley's... Would be nice to have a "up or down" adjustment from 1-99 rather than (Giant and BIG which sound rather silly and then ELF and CHIPMUNK in the other direction which are equally silly.

Would also be nice to be able to add some "opposite SMOOTHING" like a dialing in level of "RASPY" like a Rod Stuwart RASP... are such options in these dials? some are a bit confusion, even with the manual in hand.

I find the thing INCREDIBLE - yes it works with power chords. It's not as dependant on it's input tones as they seem to imply.

[97TJ]

Can anyone tell me the polarity of the power supply. I could not find it in the manual and there is no indication on the power supply either. I have a one spot and would like to use it to run my VL2 along with my other pedals. Thanks.

[97TJ]

Ok I guess I could have waited a little longer for Digitech support to answer before my last post. If anyone cares to know, they said that the VL2 runs off of 9V AC not 9V DC so it can not be daisy chained with 9V DC pedals.

[zbad55]

Hi all,

Just picked up the VL2 last week, and I am already having a problem, was wondering if anybody else had the same issue.

The unit worked fine the first couple of days, then after not using it for about 3 or 4 days, I cannot get a guitar signal thru the thing. I'm using the guitar thru to my amp and no problem there, and I can use the tuner and it sees a good signal, but as soon as I leave the tuner mode, nothing at all, no signal. Any ideas, thanks in advance,

Carl:cool:

[Scoobie Doo]

Hi everyone. This is my first post here. I have the older Digtech Vocalist VHM5 which is well over ten years old. The harmonies sound very chickmunk at times especially if I listen to them after recording them. The harmonies sound good at times but also have many funny slides etc... when it doesn't quite know what to do or if the chord isn't changed quite on time in a song. Has anybody here heard both and can compare the two as of quality of the harmonies etc... I know this new one probably sounds better because of the reverb etc....

[m1westwood]

Hi everyone. This is my first post here. I have the older Digtech Vocalist VHM5 which is well over ten years old. The harmonies sound very chickmunk at times especially if I listen to them after recording them. The harmonies sound good at times but also have many funny slides etc... when it doesn't quite know what to do or if the chord isn't changed quite on time in a song. Has anybody here heard both and can compare the two as of quality of the harmonies etc... I know this new one probably sounds better because of the reverb etc....

Scoob,

I don't need to hear or have played with your unit to know that the VL2/4 are 1000 times better. Ten years is an eon in technological terms, and the VL4 is the greatest technological leap in music since Tom Scholz invented solid state effects. I played a gig for 800 people tonight, and at the end of the show several people asked me where my backup singers were standing. The VL4 was so real, they actually thought I had a group of vocalists standing in the wings singing along. If you learn to work with it, it is so close to real that all but musicians know the truth. It has little to do with the reverb, etc - as you suggested. It is more about the overall technology. Just think about what a PC could do 10 years ago versus today; the same advances are being made in music tech.

Go to your local Guitar center and buy one tomorrow. They have a 45 day return policy, but I guarantee 100% that once you try it, you will never, ever be able to return it.

[Scoobie Doo]

It is missing some outputs but can the output just record the harmonies on separate tracks which I sure most people would want to do or is it geared just for live shows?

[orbm1]

It is missing some outputs but can the output just record the harmonies on separate tracks which I sure most people would want to do or is it geared just for live shows?

I am not sure if you are talking about the vl2 or vl4, either or, they are geared for live use... I have used them for recording, but it is not a studio unit. Yes you can send only the harmonies if you would like, but if you are looking for recording I would strongly recommend a plug in, like melodyne, or maybe the vocalist pro (check digitech.com) would be more of a studio solution....

Hope it helps :wave:

Omar :thu:

[~Musicman~]

Scoob,

I don't need to hear or have played with your unit to know that the VL2/4 are 1000 times better. Ten years is an eon in technological terms, and the VL4 is the greatest technological leap in music since Tom Scholz invented solid state effects.

I don't think so. I have the Digitech Studio Vocalist and it still out shines them all. In fact, all digitech has been doing over the years is re-introducing this unit piece by piece. I can program the studio unit for any type harmonies unlike the limitations of the newer units. However, its place IS in the studio.

The VL4 is so much easier use because of the MusIQ feature (for keys and guitar). The lesser quality gates/reverbs/compressor effects help out too.

It is a good enough unit to give the impression someone is actually harmonizing with you. I still give it a +8 1/2 out of 10.



Go to your local Guitar center and buy one tomorrow. They have a 45 day return policy, but I guarantee 100% that once you try it, you will never, ever be able to return it.

March is the 1 yr no payment if you have their credit card. Worth looking into.

[Scoobie Doo]

All these different harmonizers must then still use the same technology in all there units as far as the harmony goes, except for the way the chords and harmony are employed especially with the newer models the live 2 and Live 4.
When I listen to the Vocalist VHM5, the harmony doesn't sound real at all! I'd like it if somebody who has one of the newer models like the live 2 could just put out an mp3 of the harmony alone with not vocal with it so we could hear it for what it is. No music. That would be the test of all tests!

[~Musicman~]

LOL...

'We' have already heard and 'We' believe!

Here is a demo: http://www.digitech.com/products/Vocalist_Live4/Vocalist_LIVE4_Video.php

If you really want to do a test of all tests, go to GC and try one. You don't even have to buy it.

[orbm1]

All these different harmonizers must then still use the same technology in all there units as far as the harmony goes, except for the way the chords and harmony are employed especially with the newer models the live 2 and Live 4.
When I listen to the Vocalist VHM5, the harmony doesn't sound real at all! I'd like it if somebody who has one of the newer models like the live 2 could just put out an mp3 of the harmony alone with not vocal with it so we could hear it for what it is. No music. That would be the test of all tests!

The harmony by itself will never sound real, will always sound a little bit digital....

the vl2/vl4 sounds good when the harmonies are combined with the natural voice... This unit is target for live usage.... Vocalist LIVE....I think this will give you a hint.

I know digitech is coming with vocalist Pro, maybe this will be more for studio use.

Remember, digital created harmony will be always DIGITAL...

Omar :thu:

[stos2]

Just my 2 cents worth - I bought the VL2 about 3 months ago, from GC (man I hate that place) because just in case I wasn't happy with it, I could easily take it back. I love this unit. Prior to the VL2, I had the Digitech VR. That was also a nice unit, but the VL-series is a major step above, in both sound and usage. I only use it for live performances, although I have produced a few demos using it. Regarding the digitized sound, I don't hear it unless I don't have it blended correctly with the main voice. Then, it still isn't all that bad. But that's just my opinion. When it comes to "sound", everybody's taste/opinion is different.

I suggest you try one out (From GC or the like - ouch). If you're not happy with it, you have lost nothing. I would bet a large sum of money that you won't be taking it back. I think there are units out there that are probably better "sounding", but they are VERY expensive, and not easy to program or operate (unless you have 4 hands and 4 feet, and can do the "effects pedal dance" while performing).

Also, read all the reviews/opinions on this forum as well as listening for yourself on Digitech's website. There are also some videos of guys using it on MySpace/UTube (I think). Listen to what the guys on this forum are saying, especially Craig Anderton's threads. These guys know what they're talking about, from both a technology and experience standpoint. Anyway ... everyone's got one .... and that's mine.

Good luck.

[~Musicman~]

I usually find that I go to the Music store with every intention of buying whatever it is I went to get in the first place.

However, I will never leave the store with the item, if that product cannot convince me to take it home no matter how badly I wanted it. This was the case with the VL2. I had my hopes up about the VL4 before they were on the market and I hoped the VL2 would assure me I was right. I ended up leaving the store with no VL2. I would wait until the VL4 was available.

I ended up ordering the VL4 online with the intention of sending it back if I didn't like it. I was impressed and I will not part with it.

[97TJ]

Hi all,

Just picked up the VL2 last week, and I am already having a problem, was wondering if anybody else had the same issue.

I can use the tuner and it sees a good signal, but as soon as I leave the tuner mode, nothing at all, no signal.
Carl:cool:

I had mine for about 6 weeks before is started doing the same thing. It seems as though when coming out of tuner mode it does not want to un-mute the signal. Mine would work intermittently. I took it back to the Music shop where my wife had purchased it as a Christmas present and they sent it in to Digitech for repair. They told me 2 to 4 weeks. It's going on 5. Calling them today.

[97TJ]

Well I got my Live 2 back yesterday and checked it out last night. So far so good. I sure did miss my "friends"

[Scoobie Doo]

Well I hate to spoil the party but I did demo one out at out local store (live 2)and the harmonies are not any better then the vocalist VMH5! Sure the reverb is nice and all the effects and it is a lot easier to use but the hamonies still sound very digital. I'll be keeping my old one I guess for now until the prices come down or maybe a used one later on.

[PanchoStern]

Me & my singer have 8 video's up on youtube where we use the Vocalist Live 2, after using live for close to a year for about 3 gigs a week. You can search youtube for "Pancho Stern" & check out the vids or there is also a link to it on the GUITAR JAM web page unders "Pancho Stern on youtube". We actually did a small "commercial" at the beginning of one of them but the guy who filmed & edited it deleted it. I think he thought we were joking but we were plugging it & explaining our settings etc. Check it out & tell us what you think.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_U8Tqp3Gmos

[PanchoStern]

By the way forgot to add you can see the Live2 at the bottom right hand corner in the vids.:thu:

[Scoobie Doo]

Pancostern, very good! The harmonies sound good as long as you keep them the right level in the mix. The guitar and your great voice does hide the digital effect of the harmony. If you were to listen just to the harmony itself from say a recording on its own track then you would see what I mean but the way you use them is very important. If you have them up to loud then they become more obvious. Good job. I know I sound like I'm putting it down but I'm just trying to be truthful. I'ts a great machine when used in the right manner!

[PanchoStern]

No prob. The harmony was kind of low in the mix. she also needed more reverb in the voice. Sounds a little dry. I had a LOT of problems with the guitar you can hear it if you listen to the Beatles song.

[SoloArtist]

Well I hate to spoil the party but I did demo one out at out local store (live 2)and the harmonies are not any better then the vocalist VMH5! Sure the reverb is nice and all the effects and it is a lot easier to use but the hamonies still sound very digital. I'll be keeping my old one I guess for now until the prices come down or maybe a used one later on.

Oh well! I've had nothing but praise for my VL2 which I am selling only because I purchased the VL4 and don't need two boxes that do the same thing. If anyone is interested, let me know.

Tootles,

[Scoobie Doo]

How much are you asking for it? You can email me privately if you want.

[Serjr]

I have the VL2 and I have a VL4, But I have been looking for a Akai Unibass effects box, so I was thinking I could use the VL2 for the 3rd and 5th above effect.
My question is would it hurt the unit to play my bass thru the VL2. Running it in the unit as if it was the vocal and guitar.
Thanks
Sam

[gc24]

How does the Digitech comare to the new Helicon Harmony G that is coming out?

[rjmjajrj]

I was considering purchasing one of these but I had one question. Will it work for harmonies without the guitar running thru the unit if the singer is in key?

I didn't have time to run thru all 22 pages of this topic in the forum so I just thought I would ask.

RJ

[m1westwood]

I was considering purchasing one of these but I had one question. Will it work for harmonies without the guitar running thru the unit if the singer is in key?

No - the whole premise is that it listens to the guitar chord to figure out what harmony note to create - without a guitar it has no way of doing this.

[twostone]

I have the VL2 and I have a VL4, But I have been looking for a Akai Unibass effects box, so I was thinking I could use the VL2 for the 3rd and 5th above effect.
My question is would it hurt the unit to play my bass thru the VL2. Running it in the unit as if it was the vocal and guitar.
Thanks
Sam

Great question :thu: I'm a bassist that sings a lot of back up vocal along with a vocalist that only sings and can't play any instrument and only have 1 guitarist that's already doing a tap dance with a dozen stomp boxes and doesn't do any back up singing. But from what I gathered since it except a line in level should be able to work because KB have a line out and can hit bass octave same as a bass guitar and below. How bout enlighten us bassist.

[tumergundem]

Hi Craig,
One more question.

Is this gear a right choice for 4 peace Rock Band?

We play loud. As far as I concern it is used mostly in Acoustic Music.

Will it fit among 2 E.Gtr.'s a drummer and a Bass? As mentioned before we play loud.

Thanks.

[m1westwood]

I was considering purchasing one of these but I had one question. Will it work for harmonies without the guitar running thru the unit if the singer is in key?

I didn't have time to run thru all 22 pages of this topic in the forum so I just thought I would ask.

RJ

RJ - one more comment. What you want to do will not work with the VL2 as I mentioned, but the Digitech Vocalist Live 4 and Vocalist Live Pro products can do this. You simply turn off MusIQ, pick a key and scale for the song you want, and you are good to go - no guitar needed.

[m1westwood]

Hi Craig,
One more question.

Is this gear a right choice for 4 peace Rock Band?

We play loud. As far as I concern it is used mostly in Acoustic Music.

Will it fit among 2 E.Gtr.'s a drummer and a Bass? As mentioned before we play loud.

Thanks.

Not sure what playing loud has to do with anything - unless you are saying that you play so loud you won't hear the harmonies, or you are implying that you play loud to drown out a tone deaf singer (in which case this product is NOT for you). If your singer does not have good pitch control, you won't like this product - because now you will hear his off pitch performance times three. If he has REALLY bad pitch control, the VL2 won't even be able to figure out what harmonies to create.

Either way - yes it works with electric guitars, yes it will work with a 4 pc rock band, and yes it will create harmonies even if you turn up your amp to Eleven.

[tumergundem]

Not sure what playing loud has to do with anything - unless you are saying that you play so loud you won't hear the harmonies, or you are implying that you play loud to drown out a tone deaf singer (in which case this product is NOT for you). If your singer does not have good pitch control, you won't like this product - because now you will hear his off pitch performance times three. If he has REALLY bad pitch control, the VL2 won't even be able to figure out what harmonies to create.

Either way - yes it works with electric guitars, yes it will work with a 4 pc rock band, and yes it will create harmonies even if you turn up your amp to Eleven.

The intention of the question about loudness was to figure out if the sound coming back from the loudspeakers and monitors that will go through the mike / VL2, could produce any unwanted sound.

And all the clips about the VL2 were about 2 piece musicians mostly...

Thanks.

[rodclement]

RJ - one more comment. What you want to do will not work with the VL2 as I mentioned, but the Digitech Vocalist Live 4 and Vocalist Live Pro products can do this. You simply turn off MusIQ, pick a key and scale for the song you want, and you are good to go - no guitar needed.


Guys,

I have been using the Digitech VL2 two part harmony unit for over a year now, twice a week on live aplications and I run it using my voice only, with no other input from any other instrument and it works just fine. I am sorry to say that this notion that it needs a guitar to provide the key is incorect, it works without the guitar input and will follow the key that you are singing in just fine.

The only cautionary tale that I would want to bring out is that by not using a guitar to dictate the key the harmonies will be in, the singer better not sing out of tune because if you do, there will now be two extra voices that will be heard out of tune! The issue here is that the VL2 is not a pitch correction unit but if you use it with a guitar, the addtinional voices will be in the right key even if the singer is not so it may "mask" a bad singer a bit but not correct it. I also have seen a singer that uses the VL2 on monotone only with the key dictated by a guitar so it "masks" his poor singing with a bed of on-pitch voice.

Bottom line is: the unit works just fine without a guitar running into it as long as your singer knows what he/she is doing.

Rod

[KenCook]

Hi, Gang,

I've been trying out a friend's VL2 and (almost) love it! Is the reverb in the VL2 stereo? I've tried hooking up line out L & R and panning the inputs on my mixer but get no observable separation (via headphones) in harmonies & the mono reverb sounds bad to my ears. Why else would it have L/R line-outs, though?

KC

[fuzzball]

I went to a pro audio seminar Saterday and let the instructor hear what I did with my VL4 and he was very impressed with the units capabilities.