what do I have to start learning about to become a better improviser?

[levs42385]

I want to be able to just come up with cool little licks out of nowhere at anytime, I can do that now (in a way) but I want it to be correct, I wanna be know where I am what scale it was in, and so on. where can I get help with this. Oh and if you find a site that can help make sure it has TABS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I don't know how to read music. so please TAB ONLY

[Robben Cain]

Well, there are plenty of ways to go about it but the best way is to develope your ear to the point where you know how the notes are going to sound before you play them. Theory is a good way to understand, but people who get too accustomed to theory tend to let the theory do the talking rather than their ears.

The first scale you should know in all positions is the major scale....almost all of western music hinges on it and if you know it you can figure most things out.

From a technical aspect you fingers should be able to do what you tell them without you having to think about it. If you find something that you have a had time doing.....practice it until you don't have a hard time doing it.

[thamiam]

If you want this...
Originally posted by levs42385
I wanna be know where I am what scale it was in, and so on.

You can't have this...
Originally posted by levs42385
I don't know how to read music. so please TAB ONLY

...sorry.

You can do it by ear, and you might be great at it (Lord knows Jimi and a few hundred others were).

But if you want to know what is going on, to have a guide in your head as well as your ears, you need to learn how to read music.

[Robben Cain]

If you can memorize the sound of scaes and interval relations you can do it. Don't let anybody tell you you have to learn standard notation......it's a great tool but the music existed first. The sound is the most important part.......too many trained musicians forget that.

[thamiam]

Its pointless to argue this, since both answers are equally correct. In order to play the perfect fill every time, you do not need to be able to read music. However...

If you want to have at your disposal a good starting point for improvisation in any situation, it helps to be able to read music.

If you want to be able to play in new situations, with different people quickly and effeciently, it is a very good idea to be able to read music.

If you want to communicate ideas to other musicians in an efficient and meaningful manner, it is essential to be able to read music.

[Robben Cain]

Originally posted by thamiam
Its pointless to argue this, since both answers are equally correct. In order to play the perfect fill every time, you do not need to be able to read music. However...

If you want to have at your disposal a good starting point for improvisation in any situation, it helps to be able to read music.

If you want to be able to play in new situations, with different people quickly and effeciently, it is a very good idea to be able to read music.

If you want to communicate ideas to other musicians in an efficient and meaningful manner, it is essential to be able to read music.

Your points or only valid for Jazz and Classical and even that is up for debate. Most rock/blues/punk/alternative/ players don't know how to read music at all and don't communicate that way.

Theory is different than standard notation......I play at plenty of jazz jams and feel comfortable because of a good knowledge of theory. I can improvise in nearly all situations because I know how the music is put together.....and I know how to listen. You don't need standard notation for that.

[levs42385]

OK, I think I know what I am going to do. SOMEONE HERE SHOW ME WHERE I CAN LEARN HOW TO READ STANDARD NOTATION, A GOOD SITE WILL HELP.

[StratKat]

For people who do not wish to learn music by the traditional or formal way i suggest pattern playing.

Pattern playing gives the player the scales with all the correct notes in them as a picture on the guitar neck. You memorize the picture and play all the notes. Learn one Major scale and you can play all the major scales. Learn one minor scale and the same. That speeds things up alot in the learning process. All you then have to know is WHICH pattrern to use and WHERE to start playing it. Play any of the notes in the correct pattern for the correct scale and you will fit in.

Notation helps in learning anything complex in music, especially theory. But you can learn alot about theory through talking music or reading books about it without knowing how to read sheet music.

Example:

If i wanted to teach someone about inversions its alot easier to show them on notation. But i can do it just fine by telling them "Take the lowest note in a chord and dont play it there. Instead, move that note to become the highest sounding note in the chord. Or on short- restack the notes so the lowest is moved to the top of the chord."

The endless argument over notation versus tab and how they work in theory will never die. All have an important part to play in a well rounded musician. But none of them are mandatory to play well.

[Treves]

Robben Cain is right - train your ear. Learn to identify intervals by ear. Play a 5th on your guitar, sing it in all twelve keys. Do this for all of the other intervals. It's the best way to increase your vocabulary.

[Flanger]

Purely for improvisation, I'd say study intervals and do some relative pitch training. Then do some visualiztion exercizes (leave your guitar in the case) where you just listen to rhythms and imagine interesting melodies you would play over them. Then learn how to get those melodies out of your head and onto the fretboard using the interval/pitch training you studied before.

[Flanger]

BTW, I think teaching pattern playing is the worst thing you can do for someone who wants to improv. I have such a hard time breaking out of the patterns I have ingrained in my head.

That's also why I don't suggest scalar/modal practice for improv. Those are just more patterns that get stuck in your head. To me they just seem to be intermediary structures that, more often than not, get taught as patterns. If you are playing what's in your head, the ability to identify intervals and play them is much more important.

[SpoonyJank]

stop caring

[G.A.S._is_good!]

I have to agree with the thought that reading standard musical notation is not necessary to have good improvisational skill - I never think in terms of actual notes I'm using when I improvise, though I can read music in both treble and bass clefs.

Knowing musical intervals and how they apply in chords and scales is critical knowledge, IMO. I think in terms of thirds, fourths, fifths, major, minor, suspended, flatted, augmented, 7 chords, 9 chords, etc. all the time while improvising (but I seldom think of the actual note names while playing). Any and all theory you can "bone up" on regarding chord and scale structures would be useful in improvisational situations. Learn everything you can about general chord theory and (at least) basic major and minor modes scale theory. Other modes can come with time, but these two are essential.

I also agree with the importance of eartraining. Probably the most useful and easiest way (at least in the fact you don't need to do anything other than pick up your guitar and play) to learn this is to sing what you play. Singing along with doo-doop-dos and beedle-deedle-dees (a la George Benson) will help ingrain those interval relationships you'll be using and will also help immensely in training you how to translate the melodies you're hearing in your head to the fretboard.

Good luck and best regards,

Mark

[335clone]

Originally posted by levs42385
OK, I think I know what I am going to do. SOMEONE HERE SHOW ME WHERE I CAN LEARN HOW TO READ STANDARD NOTATION, A GOOD SITE WILL HELP.

Here is a good start for reading notation:

http://www.musictheory.net/load.php?id=82

Here is a great theory site:

http://www.zentao.com/guitar/theory/

[IamBurnout]

Originally posted by Flanger
Purely for improvisation, I'd say study intervals and do some relative pitch training. Then do some visualiztion exercizes (leave your guitar in the case) where you just listen to rhythms and imagine interesting melodies you would play over them. Then learn how to get those melodies out of your head and onto the fretboard using the interval/pitch training you studied before.

I would say something quite similar.
Listen to the rhythm sectin withoutplaying your guitar. Listen to where the dummer plays his fills. Listen to where the bass falls on the chord roots. Listen to where a guitar lick would sound good. Then play in the groove, and improvise when it is appropriate.

Whatever you do, don't wank! Groooooooooove

[Sputnik]

Everything you want to learn is on recordings.

This is a listening art form.

[lazaraga]

besides the obvious, like learning to read music, learning chord and scale theory, mastering rhythm, getting a grip on relative pitch, and listening to others, i would suggest
stop eating meat
take chyawanaprash daily
learn to play other instruments
read some good books
exercise
experiment with altered consciousness
cut your hair

and have fun!


peace

[levs42385]

Originally posted by lazaraga
besides the obvious, like learning to read music, learning chord and scale theory, mastering rhythm, getting a grip on relative pitch, and listening to others, i would suggest
stop eating meat
take chyawanaprash daily
learn to play other instruments
read some good books
exercise
experiment with altered consciousness
cut your hair

and have fun!


peace

hmmmm... interesting... how did you know I have long hair? I think I'll pass on the meat comment. thanks for the beginning of the post though

[555]

Study and learn how to play the blues. Learn the early blues from Muddy Waters, John Lee Hooker and Elmore James. Then learn the later masters like BB and Albert King, and Buddy Guy, then Eric Clapton, Jeff Beck and Jimi Hendrix (yes, Jimi was a bluesman underneath it all). Then study SRV. All of these great players learned from the generations before them, took their licks and made them their own. The blues are all about improvisation. You don't have to be a SRV clone or a blues purest, you just have to lay a good foundation. THE BLUES HAD A BABY, AND THEY NAMED IT ROCK AND ROLL.

[TeleScreamer]

Originally posted by 555
Study and learn how to play the blues. Learn the early blues from Muddy Waters, John Lee Hooker and Elmore James. Then learn the later masters like BB and Albert King, and Buddy Guy, then Eric Clapton, Jeff Beck and Jimi Hendrix (yes, Jimi was a bluesman underneath it all). Then study SRV. All of these great players learned from the generations before them, took their licks and made them their own. The blues are all about improvisation. You don't have to be a SRV clone or a blues purest, you just have to lay a good foundation. THE BLUES HAD A BABY, AND THEY NAMED IT ROCK AND ROLL.

This works for me:

1. Chose a song. A song that you really like. (I use Buddy guy, John Lee Hooker and Wes Montgomery a lot). Call it MY SONG. At the beginning, some slow blues will work beter for you.

2. Listen to it. Over and Over. Car, Walkman, Computer. Everywhere. Until you can sing it note by note. All the licks, bass lines, chords, everything.

3. Repeat step 2 until you know you can sing the whole song alone. Then start singing it.

4. Just now, you take your guitar. It's time to reproduce the song with your guitar AND your mouth. Play the chords in the guitar, and SING the guitar licks. If possible, RECORD it and listen to it. Then THINK the rhytm and play the licks. And so on.

Someone gave a very good hint: You have to know how the lick will sound before you play it. I always study playing and SINGING my solo at the same time.

Another thing you can do:
Chose two licks. Try to LINK them: play the first, then improvise as you go towards the next link. For this exercise, I like to use those Blues Playback CDs.
As you develop this skill, start doing this same exercise, but using only two strings to link the licks. This will help you to think beyond the "scale pattern" format.

OK, one more hint:
You can survive without learning standard notation. I didn't know it for a long time, and it was not so bad to live without it as a blues / rock player. But there's one thing that you must learn: Music Theory. You should know rhythm structures, and chord creation. Knowing what those '7+, sus4, m, M' things means is really helpful.

[banderos]

Hmmm, lot's of answers here already! But here's my 2c...

Improvisation is just part of the larger goal of studying guitar which is complete mastery of the instrument which means in turn total FREEDOM of expression (via live improvisation or composition or whatever).

To have total freedom (or the nearest thing you can achieve to it as a mere mortal!) you have to have a whole range of skills, including things like muscial theory, manual dexterity, complete knowledge of the fretboard etc.

The best summary I have read of these 'prerequisites' is from Steve Vai's Guitar Player columns back in the early eighties. Personally I believe those articles are virtually straight from god so good they are. Luckily they are still available on his website www.vai.com (look for the Little Black Dots section).

Instead of listing some areas to work on here, go check out those columns for yourself. If you don't get something good out of it, come back here and kick me in the teeth ;)

Ya Min