blues solos over chord changes?

[Max Factor]

question for you guys:

is it technically correct to change scales to match the chords while playing blues?

for example:

if you've got a 12-bar progression in E, is it alright to play a A Minor Pentatonic riff over the A chord, and a B minor Pentatonic riff over the B chord?

thanks, I'm in the middle of a music theory debate with our keyboardist right now... let 'em know that us guitar pickers know our stuff too!

MF

[StratKat]

The easiest way to begin soloing is to follow the progression chords with the same name scale. If its a E Major chord then play an E Major scale. If its a B min chord then play a B min scale. This gets your feet wet.

Next thing to try is the relative minor to each major thing. Every Major key has what is called a Relative minor scale and chord that can be played at the same time with it and sound correct. The relative minor to C Major is A minor. So you could play a chord like C Major and then solo over it in A minor and sound ok.

The relative minors are found the easiest way on a guitar by doing this:

Play any single note on the neck and call it the MAJOR chord or scale position. Then slide your finger towards the nut three frets to find the name of the relative minor scale or chord name.

Next, after that you can start leanning how to use modes and boxes. The mode thing is where you break up the entire scale into several scales. Lets take the good old C major scale...


C - D - E - F - G - A - B - C

Okay, if you start the above scale on the first note called the root its one mode. But start the scale on the 2nd note and iplay it through to its ocave like this;

D - E - F - G - A - B - C - D

and it becomes a different mode. Follow this all the way through with all the notes and possible scales and you play all the modes. This applies to any scale or key you use.

The BOX or pattern method is just using a similar thought as in modes and applying it to the entire neck as a picture of all the notes played in a scale and remembering them visually like a picture. For more on this method check out my free lessons for beginning lead players on my site below!

[Cainer]

In most blues progressions, try using a dominant-7th scale (Mixolydian) over each chord. Go to A-mixo over the A chord, B-mixo over the B-chord, etc. Mixing this with the Major and Minor pentatonics of the key you're in will open things up for you. Of course if you're playing a minor blues, use the minor pentatonics over the corresponding chords. You can get awaywith using A-minor pentatonic over an A7 chord in the key of E, but I much prefer the A-mixolydian. Hope that helps!

[Pacifica604]

Hey Cainer.


I'm in Cambride..... Wazzzup??? :)

[Max Factor]

Originally posted by Cainer
In most blues progressions, try using a dominant-7th scale (Mixolydian) over each chord. Go to A-mixo over the A chord, B-mixo over the B-chord, etc. Mixing this with the Major and Minor pentatonics of the key you're in will open things up for you. Of course if you're playing a minor blues, use the minor pentatonics over the corresponding chords. You can get awaywith using A-minor pentatonic over an A7 chord in the key of E, but I much prefer the A-mixolydian. Hope that helps!

thanks man, this is very helpful
:)

[Dave Regio]

I concur with the use of the mixolydian scales for each of the chords in a blues progression (major blues as opposed to minor blues). The 3rd and 7th tones are great tones to resolve to (I resolve to the third all the time, usually leading from a half-step below in a typical blues embellishment).

When I practice improvising over a I, IV, V, all I really think of is the blues scale in whatever key I'm playing. I don't think of the scales for the IV and V chord as much as I think of the chord tones and making sure I hit them.

Again, this is typical I-IV-V. As I progress into jazz-blues forms, this will likely change.

[Reeko2]

My teacher has me doing all of the above.
Givin I7 - IV7 - V7 (Or many times I7 - IV9 - V9 sounds bluesier).

I sometimes try Mixolydian of each root (ig G7 C7 D7 , then G mix, C mix D mix).

You can also play a mixture of G minor pentatonic and G major pentatonic, this sounds really good. (Or G Blues and E Blues, almost the same, since E Blues is basically G Major Pent with a Flat 5 (relative to E, or Flat 3 relative to the G Major).

I really like the sound of mixing the Major and Minor over a Major Blues progression). I don't think this works over a Minor Blues Progression though, not sure.

[Dave Regio]

Originally posted by Reeko2
My teacher has me doing all of the above.
Givin I7 - IV7 - V7 (Or many times I7 - IV9 - V9 sounds bluesier).

I sometimes try Mixolydian of each root (ig G7 C7 D7 , then G mix, C mix D mix).

You can also play a mixture of G minor pentatonic and G major pentatonic, this sounds really good. (Or G Blues and E Blues, almost the same, since E Blues is basically G Major Pent with a Flat 5 (relative to E, or Flat 3 relative to the G Major).

I really like the sound of mixing the Major and Minor over a Major Blues progression). I don't think this works over a Minor Blues Progression though, not sure.

BB King is where I heard my first major pentatonic ideas in blues (listening to Sweet Sixteen or Sweet Little Angel).

The "blues scale" I use may as well be a chromatic scale since I use 10 of the 12 available notes. That's why I don't think of anything except the key I'm in. I can highlight the IV and V chords without worrying about the chord/scale relationship.

Strange I know.

[ninjaaron]

when I play blues I just tend to mix up all of the above mentioned thing in a big blues soup.

Mmmmmm.... blues soup:D

[thamiam]

A lot of great points made above, but let me just remind people that the blues is one of the more forgiving styles of music to solo over.

Playing outside the changes is just part of the whole blues idiom. For instance, to me the "bluest" note in just about every situation is the flatted 6th (or flat 13, if you prefer). Now in a major blues, this doesn't appear anywhere in the chords. But it simply sounds great. Blues leaves lots of room for freedom, use it.

Some people actually write this out in blues. Instead of writing every chord as a dominant 7th, or even a 9 as mentioned above, they'll write every chord as an alt chord. This includes the 7th, the flat, natural and sharp 9th, the natural and sharp 11th, the flat, natural, and sharp 13th, and depending on era, the flat fifth as well as the natural. Basically they give you permission to play any note you like over any chord. But there's no reason to wait for permission, just do it anyways.

[Jimmy James]

Originally posted by ninjaaron
when I play blues I just tend to mix up all of the above mentioned thing in a big blues soup.

Mmmmmm.... blues soup:D


What he said. In blues I don't think there are any "Correct" hard and fast rules. You do what sounds good to you.

As an exercise I use switch to the corresponding Mixoydian mode for each chord change. This kind of thing is great as an excercise but sounds suck in the real world on stage.

You sound like an academic trying to play blues.

You can use any and all techniques. Arpeggios, Modes, Dominate scales, chromaticism, Diminished scales, and even chord/scale substitutions, but the end result should actually sound like something that someone would want to hear.

[lestat]

in simple words, if the blues progression (I-IV-V), if the I (root) chord is A minor, then it's ok to play A m or Am pentatonic scale.

Originally posted by StratKat
Next thing to try is the relative minor to each major thing. Every Major key has what is called a Relative minor scale and chord that can be played at the same time with it and sound correct. The relative minor to C Major is A minor. So you could play a chord like C Major and then solo over it in A minor and sound ok.

The relative minors are found the easiest way on a guitar by doing this:

Play any single note on the neck and call it the MAJOR chord or scale position. Then slide your finger towards the nut three frets to find the name of the relative minor scale or chord name.

Next, after that you can start leanning how to use modes and boxes. The mode thing is where you break up the entire scale into several scales. Lets take the good old C major scale...


C - D - E - F - G - A - B - C

Okay, if you start the above scale on the first note called the root its one mode. But start the scale on the 2nd note and iplay it through to its ocave like this;

D - E - F - G - A - B - C - D

and it becomes a different mode. Follow this all the way through with all the notes and possible scales and you play all the modes. This applies to any scale or key you use.


what SK said is true, and to put it to simpler words, try playing the scale in different mode or pattern. try using the blues scale to solo over the chord changes too. you can apply the blues scale in the same way as soloing using minor scales. of course, playing over the same scales will make you sound boring, trust me, i'm having this problem now.

i'm currently in search of some books adn articles that has nice blues licks and solos and learn different styles in playing the blues

SK, hope u don't mind me using your post as reference.

[StratKat]

No man, i dont mind! The more ways we present the info the more assurance someone will get what they need to learn! :)

[Max Factor]

thanks much --

there's a lot of us guys out here trying our best to "break out of the blues box"... we apprecite the wisdom and advice.

MF

[bob-ingram]

Originally posted by Cainer
In most blues progressions, try using a dominant-7th scale (Mixolydian) over each chord. Go to A-mixo over the A chord, B-mixo over the B-chord, etc. Mixing this with the Major and Minor pentatonics of the key you're in will open things up for you. Of course if you're playing a minor blues, use the minor pentatonics over the corresponding chords. You can get awaywith using A-minor pentatonic over an A7 chord in the key of E, but I much prefer the A-mixolydian. Hope that helps!

Interesting, but I'd doubt if BB King knows a Mixolydian mode from a blender (LOL). The blues should be felt, not analyzed to this degree, IMO.

Start with a blues scale in the key of the song. Focus on the notes that fall on the backing chords.

Example. If you're in the key of A, a blues scale will use the notes, A C D E D and of course any passing notes. While the band is playing an A, focus on A C (bent slightly sharp to make it almost a C#) and E. Passing note are fine of course. While the band is on a D, focus you melody more around the D and A, still using the same passing notes. Etc.

The blues is not about modes or proper use of scales, but it's about an attitude. So pawn your guitar, use the money to buy a bottle a whiskey, after you drink your whiskey, beg for the money to get your guitar back and sit on a street corner playin to blues. You'll get the idea.

[Seegs]

Blues is a feeling...but you need a vocabulary to express that feeling...try using the Major pent. (of the song key) over the I...and the Minor pent. (of the song key) over the lV and V...or the Minor pent. (of the song key) over the entire progression...use chromatics....study the masters...and think when you practice but not while playing.

More you don't need to know!!!

It ain't rocket science, but it's deep and the above should keep you busy for a lifetime. :D


Chow,
Seegs

[babybatter]

bump

[stratboy151]

some cool ideas are say if your are jamming in A blues , first chord being A7 ..... try playing a GMaj7 Arpeggio , a C#-7b5 ARP, or an E-7 ARP , among a regular old A mixolydian scale.

[Jimmy James]

Originally posted by stratboy151
some cool ideas are say if your are jamming in A blues , first chord being A7 ..... try playing a GMaj7 Arpeggio , a C#-7b5 ARP, or an E-7 ARP , among a regular old A mixolydian scale.

I do that alot. Check this out:

http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=161315

Same thing. Cool.:D

[stratboy151]

yes jimmy, its basic upper extension playing , simple concept yet so overlooked by oh so many

[Dave Regio]

Originally posted by stratboy151
yes jimmy, its basic upper extension playing , simple concept yet so overlooked by oh so many

I know...

I am learning to improvise over So What and all these new ideas opened up to me when I decided to play Fmaj7 arpeggios and melodic ideas over the Dmin7. In terms of the Dmin7, it's a nice simple b3, 5, b7, 9 arpeggio but that by itself was real effective in getting me to open up.

[Jimmy James]

Originally posted by Dave Regio


I know...

I am learning to improvise over So What and all these new ideas opened up to me when I decided to play Fmaj7 arpeggios and melodic ideas over the Dmin7. In terms of the Dmin7, it's a nice simple b3, 5, b7, 9 arpeggio but that by itself was real effective in getting me to open up.

I love playing over this tune. It can be really cool or a train wreck depending on the band. Dorian city. Watch out for that half step chord change!

"Canteloupe Ise" is cool too when you want to take the blues uptown.

[Dave Regio]

Originally posted by Jimmy James


I love playing over this tune. It can be really cool or a train wreck depending on the band. Dorian city. Watch out for that half step chord change!

"Canteloupe Ise" is cool too when you want to take the blues uptown.

I have the Aebersold play-a-long with both So What (it's titled Impressions) and Cantelope Island.

I'm still trying to get a good feel of blues improvising (some days I do well...others not so well). I just bought a T-Bone Walker CD and love his style. I need to pound T-Bone and Charlie Christian into my head the same way I've pounded So What into my head.

I need to transition into the Ebmin7 better in So What. It's either too predictable or my line is missing something. At least I'm better than I was a month ago :)

[stratboy151]

about the tune u said was "so what" but was labeled "Impressions"....i think it actually IS "Impressions" , it has almost identical changes to so what , check out a version of it by Coltrane, he is the master of upper extension playing

[Dave Regio]

Originally posted by stratboy151
about the tune u said was "so what" but was labeled "Impressions"....i think it actually IS "Impressions" , it has almost identical changes to so what , check out a version of it by Coltrane, he is the master of upper extension playing

You're right. I wasn't clear on that. The book technically has Impressions. The chord changes are identical to So What. The melody in the Aebersold is from Impressions. The tempo is more similar to So What than to the tempo I've heard Impressions played (I haven't heard Coltrane but I've heard Pat Martino).

[Jimmy James]

"Footprints" and "Song for my Father" are some other good ones for exploring the inner workings of the Blues/Jazz matrix.

Anybody mess around with Jaco's "The Chicken?"

[stratboy151]

oscar... i was just curious as to what u do for a living , i personally am a music teacher and will be getting some more income thru a wedding band , im looking to obviously do more with music tho than my current state.

[Dave Regio]

Originally posted by Jimmy James
"Footprints" and "Song for my Father" are some other good ones for exploring the inner workings of the Blues/Jazz matrix.

Anybody mess around with Jaco's "The Chicken?"

Two more songs on my play-a-long :)

That one will keep me busy for months.

[Jimmy James]

Originally posted by stratboy151
oscar... i was just curious as to what u do for a living , i personally am a music teacher and will be getting some more income thru a wedding band , im looking to obviously do more with music tho than my current state.

I'm a professional musician fronting my own band.

Oscar Jordan & The Mighty Sons of Hercules!

We play thoughout LA and anywhere we can. I also have a day gig working in the Film and TV industry researching pre-production info.

I'm also an actor and though I'm conservatory trained in that field I no longer enjoy it.

I'm a freelance writer for Vintage Guitar Magazine, Mojo, Music Connection, Univibes, and a few other publications. Check out the latest issue of Vintage Guitar magazine with my interview with Al McKay of Earth Wind & Fire. Power of the pen and all that. This is what I really love doing, and they actually pay me.

I have a wife and a morgage and the bills must be paid!:D

[desmoines_bluesman]

Originally posted by stratboy151
yes jimmy, its basic upper extension playing , simple concept yet so overlooked by oh so many

I agree. At least for me, I do study intervals, chords, modes, etc, but that's just during practice...when I play for real over blues changes, I just think about how Albert King, Freddie King, Clapton, Hendrix, SRV, or somebody else I like might sound when they're making a point - you know, all those little "quotation marks" they put in, like quick, full-tone bends or double stops.

The absolute BEST, and it doesn't happen often, is when you actually hear yourself making a sentence with your solo. Like if the lyric is, "Done lost my shoes today," Your solo could say, "And I don't have money for another pair, no sir!" or something like that. When I hear blues and other players being that musical, where it's not notes but the statement or intent that comes through, that's the magic of soloing (especially blues soloing). You should remember that when you go from practicing to performing.

Most of all - have FUN! You're "playing" guitar, after all.

[Jimmy James]

Originally posted by desmoines_bluesman


I agree. At least for me, I do study intervals, chords, modes, etc, but that's just during practice...when I play for real over blues changes, I just think about how Albert King, Freddie King, Clapton, Hendrix, SRV, or somebody else I like might sound when they're making a point - you know, all those little "quotation marks" they put in, like quick, full-tone bends or double stops.

The absolute BEST, and it doesn't happen often, is when you actually hear yourself making a sentence with your solo. Like if the lyric is, "Done lost my shoes today," Your solo could say, "And I don't have money for another pair, no sir!" or something like that. When I hear blues and other players being that musical, where it's not notes but the statement or intent that comes through, that's the magic of soloing (especially blues soloing). You should remember that when you go from practicing to performing.

Most of all - have FUN! You're "playing" guitar, after all.

I agree. I use to try to forget everything I learned on stage and just simply try to express myself on an honest earthy level. "Just go for it!" Now I find myself wanting to do more.

Maintaining that sense of emotional connection but not have my brain shut down. Having that intellectual musical vocabulary coupled with a sense of emotion and drama is the shit. :D

[nero]

Originally posted by Max Factor


thanks man, this is very helpful
:)

:D