Carvin's Nylon String Synth Access MIDI guitar

[girevik]

Looks like they're taking orders now:

http://www.carvin.com/products/guitar.php?ItemNumber=NS1

[MorePaul]

:(

they still have a "semi-flat" radius and a sub 2" nut


looks a bit like a "cross-over" guitar for guys 'sorta' interested in classical profiles

[girevik]

I thought I read somewhere comments to the opposite - the neck being "too classical".

My real hope is they'll offer the Hexpander option on electric guitars.

[MorePaul]

I thought I read somewhere comments to the opposite - the neck being "too classical".


you probably did!!
It's going to be based on what the individual user

if, for instance, the player isn't a classical player, but comes from a different background - the "crossover" style may seem not like the steel string or electric neck that they are used to

likewise from a classical background (yeah, I still call it classical, not classic damn it!) it may not be "classical enough"

Godin might be another option for ya as they have RMC pickups with 13 pin access and come in a couple of different neck profiles

[girevik]

I've tried guitars from both Godin and Carvin and prefer the feel of the Carvins. Not that I'm all that great, but I prefer low action and a light touch and the Carvins are suited for that. Surprisingly, the action on the Carvin Holdsworth model (original, not the Fatboy) is actually a little higher than the other models', despite Holdsworth being known for a legato-based style and very, very light picking touch.

[MorePaul]

yup It's totally a case-by-case for each player (for me for instance, "too classical" is like saying "too exactly what I want" -- playing a lot more contrapunctaul stuff..having the extra space is helpful and playing fignerstyle, having a little more action to dig into can be nice)


sounds like you are maybe from more of an electric guitar background?

[tms13pin]

Definitely like a Godin Multiac ACS.

I think Carvin's really missing the boat by not providing the Graphtech
system on all of their guitars. Their Fishman system is very limited in
that they can't do 13-pin with it and there are no Tune-o bridges.
The GHOST system has all that. Why just offer it on a Nylon guitar?

I had to install a GHOST system into my Fatboy myself.

http://www.ece.cmu.edu/~tms/fatboy/side13.jpg

Frontal shot:

http://www.ece.cmu.edu/~tms/fatboy/front13.jpg

--Tom

[girevik]

MorePaul,

I'm in a Mogwai-influenced post-rock band, so I definitely need an electric axe to control my upcoming VG-99. I was originally the bassist, playing a Michael Kelly Dragonfly acoustic bass. The other guys were cool with this electro-acoustic bass, but we play so loud that the bass fed back easily.

tms13pin,

Very nice looking custom work on that Fatboy!

[MorePaul]

MorePaul,

I'm in a Mogwai-influenced post-rock band,



hmm, not familiar with the band, so I can't help you much there

so I definitely need an electric axe to control my upcoming VG-99.


Ah, in that case you may want to go to other-than-nylon totally

My comments were pretty much abt the nylon options with synth access as that's where the thread started
(I was looking at it more as a thread abt the nylon SAs out there as opposed to a "find me a guitar" type thread)

but you may want to look at other options as it sounds like nylon really ain't your game-- there are a number of manufactuerers making piezo hex pickups...and you have the hex mag pickup option too )

[tms13pin]

I've owned a bunch of Godins and now have a bunch of Brian Moores.
I just like the necks on the Moores better, but I thought the Godin's were
fine instruments. Do you need a solidbody electric? Semi-hollow?
Chambered? If you need mag pups in addition to the SA, then these
nylon axes aren't for you (like the Carvin and the Godin Multiac ACS,
which I had as well and it was nice, except I never ended up playing
the nylon as much as I thought I would). I also had a Godin Jazz Multiac
which I really liked, but it only had the front mag and it was really voiced
for jazz... not a problem, but I just wasn't using that very much either.
I might get another one of those someday. If Godin had the SA in
something like the b5X, with a pair of buckers and semihollow, that'd
be nice.

I have a Brian Moore semi-hollow now with 13-pin. Its a fairly thin
semi-hollow, but I love the neck on it, but its a somewhat thin neck
(1 5/8" at the nut, 15" radius... mild C) and not everyone might be
after that. The Fatboy is nice, but the neck is big, and flat. Also
not a problem if you like that, but you'd have to mod one as I did for
SA.

VG-99? Didn't even hear that they were finally coming out with
something! I'll have to poke around for some specs....

Oh, I've heard that the Brian Moore custom shop is closing. :(
But, the guitars are cheap on ebay :) now. The custom shop
guitars really are nicer than the iGuitars, though the i2000 axes are
still pretty good, if you're on a budget. Stay away from the i1000
series.

To get back to Carvin... Carvin needs to offer synth access on the
AE-185... a fully adjustable bridge and SA on that axe would be
awesome!

--Tom

[girevik]

I was actually leaning towards this Carvin nylon string at one point because our band had broken up and the singer, who still wanted to work with me, was leaning in a more acoustic direction.

But with the full band back together, priorities changed. I like the feel of the Carvin necks 2nd-best to Parker guitars (which are far out of my budget). The action on their electrics is so incredibly low, yet buzz-free, that people who haven't tried one are going to have a hard time believing it.

Thanks for the heads up on Brian Moores possibly hitting eBay!

An aside on nylon string MIDI axes: I just saw Oregon play last night. Ralph Towner pulled out a Frameworks MIDI nylon string towards the end of the set. The natural string tone was pretty good, IMO, albeit a little more "electric" sounding due to the RMC pickups, compared to only other guitar Towner played that night - his 100% acoustic classical guitar held up against a mic. That guitar looks old enough to have been played since the time Collin Walcott was in the band.

Frameworks has some specs on their nylon string guitars here:

http://www.frameworks-guitars.com/nylon.html

[MorePaul]

yeah - the piezos, in general, tend to have that "ping" to them -- almost too good at transducing right from the string/rsonator interface so you get an exaggerated attack where, acoustically, that attack gets soaked up by the resonator (the body, the air, etc)

Yamaha made units in their "stomp" series (AG and then the acoustic magic) with "mic modelling" to scrub some of that off


for your purposes -- have you considered retrofitting the hex system to a guitar of your choice? (like TMS did)

[MorePaul]

VG-99? Didn't even hear that they were finally coming out with
something! I'll have to poke around for some specs....


Tom - I think the Anderton forum here on H/C has some (not a ton) more info -- I expect Craig will do a review or have more info for ya shortly, so you may want to hit him and that gang up

[girevik]

for your purposes -- have you considered retrofitting the hex system to a guitar of your choice? (like TMS did)

Leaning towards a Switch Innovo. Costs the same as a Graphtech Hexpander system all by itself and just a bit more than a GK pickup. Also, has a good rep in the MIDI guitar community.

[MorePaul]

hey - if it fits your application, use it -- esp if you are going to be using the system more-or-less as a full-time controller/generator as opposed to a guitar with hex proccessing option

[girevik]

Carvin announcing a Hexpander option on multiple electric guitar models would completely change my decision, of course.

[MorePaul]

write em and see if they'd be willing to do a retrofit to a current model
Or you could get the carvin of your choice and retrofit yourself

will it cost? it could, but that's the price we pay to get what we want -- it's the balance

whenever we guitarists feel "wow, stuff costs" -- I have a simple cure - I walk up to a cellist and ask him how much a set of those Larsen strings cost..or his bow

Or I talk to a bassoonist ;) :(

[girevik]

write em and see if they'd be willing to do a retrofit to a current model

I'm ahead of you there. Posted to their Product Suggestions forum. :)


will it cost? it could, but that's the price we pay to get what we want -- it's the balance


Yes, I'll pay more if it's a Carvin - will probably go around $1000-ish.


whenever we guitarists feel "wow, stuff costs" -- I have a simple cure - I walk up to a cellist and ask him how much a set of those Larsen strings cost..or his bow

I play cello, actually.

[Killa J]

As of now, they do not offer it left handed :(

That probably doesn't affect many of you, but I'll have to look into something else, I guess.

[MorePaul]

I'm ahead of you there. Posted to their Product Suggestions forum. :)


I'd call sales - you know how it goes..."I wish" vs "here's money" ;)



I play cello, actually.

rock on you know the drill

(for those kibbitzing and not familiar with that world - Larsen strings go for abt $200 and a good concert Brazilwood bow is gonna run ya $2k+ : places like Ifshin break their bows into price ranges...under $1K, $1-3K,3-6K, and $6K+

Though hopefully that'll change...I recently got a change to try those Tabary carbon bows and I must say they are pretty neat - the wonderful thing is they are way consistent -
While the codas are solid equipment - the tabary kicks ass)

- what'cha playin?

[girevik]

My cello is a pre-Eastman Doetsch. I got a discount on it because it has some previous repair work done. I'll have to check on what brand my bow is again. It's not a Coda but it is a carbon. I'm still using the same strings that came with it when I bought it a year ago. I'm thinking going Spirocore for my replacement set. Yes, I do wish the strings were priced like guitar strings. :(

I'll report when I get around to calling Carvin and asking them if they'll install a Graphtech system for me. When I'll get around to doing it depends on when the VG-99 is ready to ship.

[tms13pin]

I'll report when I get around to calling Carvin and asking them if they'll install a Graphtech system for me. When I'll get around to doing it depends on when the VG-99 is ready to ship.

Good luck. They wouldn't do it for me, which is why I did it myself. They
exclusively use Fishman for their piezos, even though they've had a good
relationship with Graphtech for some time (use GT nuts on their guitars and
the string savers are an option). They've even tightened up on other
special orders as of late. Unfortunate, because now with Brian Moore out
of the Custom Shop 13-pin arena, Carvin could jump right in and take over
that niche. And the hardware's already available too... I just don't
understand it. You can't get a Carvin with a regular piezo option if you
want a Tune-o, because Fishman doesn't make it. Why not go with
someone who can fill all of their available bridges AND offer a 13-pin option
too? Crazy.

They *did*, however, come through with the spalted top... for which I am
eternally grateful! Won't be any more of those around either.

I really do like Carvin, I just don't understand some of their decisions,
that's all.

--Tom

[MorePaul]

I'm thinking going Spirocore for my replacement set.


The spiro C and G are OK, but for the A and D go for either Larsens or Pirastro

[girevik]

Thanks for the recs, Paul. I didn't realize you also play cello. Not a cheap investment for sure if you want a quality instrument, but I feel like I found a good deal. It's a frustrating instrument to play at times but I love the challenge and am pleased with the progress I've made after a year. Every time I think something is impossible on the cello, I pull up vids on YouTube like the Paganini 24 Caprice vid. Of course having a private teacher helped a lot. I hope to get my intonation locked down sufficiently to start recording with it before too long. Oh, my bow is a Cadenza Silver. I chose it after trying 10 or so bows in the shop.

I'm now thinking of just getting a GK pickup and sticking it onto my Reverend Club King, and saving up for a high quality guitar with either RMC or Graphtech Hexpander electronics. I love my Club King but don't have a viable backup electric axe and don't want to cut a hole in my current main axe for the 13-pin jack. The new guitar would become the main and the Club King would become the backup. In the meantime, my GK-equipped Club King would give me more time to research the various options. If I'm going to have a new guitar built from scratch, I'd want a Klein-type of design, so I'll have to do a lot of asking around to find someone who can build such an axe for me. I heard of the "headless Carvin Holdsworth" rumor started by Holdsworth himself, but apparently the Carvin people don't want to do it.

[girevik]

Oh, I've heard that the Brian Moore custom shop is closing. :(
But, the guitars are cheap on ebay :) now. The custom shop
guitars really are nicer than the iGuitars, though the i2000 axes are
still pretty good, if you're on a budget. Stay away from the i1000
series.

I know I'm getting off topic, but hey I started this thread so I can hijack my own thread. :D But I feel like I should help Brian Moore/iGuitar clear up the confusion over their situation.

Brian Moore Guitars submitted a post to the vg-8 Yahoo Group that they are still in business and have moved to a new website, which looks just like the old one:

http://www.iguitar.com/

They're changing their name to iGuitar, Inc. According to RMC himself, they're in the middle of a reorganization.

I've been looking on eBay and indeed, the number of Brian Moore Custom Shop /Limited Edition axes out there that are $1500 or less is astounding. Almost none of them have 13-pin outputs and will thus require professional work done to install the jacks and the necessary RMC PolyDrive active preamp to drive the 13-pin. Even with that taken into account, the prices are amazing. Also, RMC provided to me two references to professional RMC installers to do this work.

A friend advised, based on my desires (low-action, reasonably ergonomic, legato-friendly axe, favorite neck=Parker) I look into Steinberger GL as an alternative (and get a pro to install a Roland Internal GK kit) but these things don't seem to exist on eBay and are out of stock at MusicYo.

[tms13pin]

Got an email from Patrick Cummings, BMG prez today. Yes, what you've
stated is the gist of it. They've been using the name iGuitar, Inc. for
about a year now, but are now formalizing it and moving to new quarters.
Closing the custom shop but continuing to work on technical guitar products.

My guess is that they'll keep the i1000/2000 lines going as they're money
makers and manufactured overseas and will still do the 13-pin upgrades
for folks who would like them. This is what I've done, purchase piezo
models and have them upgraded, as 13-pin Custom Shop axes rarely
appear for sale used.

Boy, I hope the custom shop axes increase in value now!

Still, these are my favorite controllers and great playing guitars for
regular jamming too.

--Tom

[girevik]

Just lost an auction on a C-90. :mad:

I'll keep trying though...

[lovewave]

LOL...Carvin.

:D:D:D

[tms13pin]

LOL...Carvin.

:D:D:D

Dude! You're gettin' a Carvin!

I think most people who don't like Carvins either haven't owned one or
owned one back in the 80's or early 90's when they were targeting the
metal crowd.

I think the Holdsworth and the Bolt-Plus/C66 are great guitars and
certainly the best bargain in a "custom shop" type of axe out there.

Anyway, back to synth controllers... I'm considering moving my
Brian Moore DC/1p.13... not actively pursuing it yet, but it definitely
gets the least play of all of my axes. I'm just not really a LP-type.

--Tom

[girevik]

I've always admired Carvins, as I used to live within driving range of the Escondido showroom and was able to try out various models in person. They make my 2nd favorite type of neck after Parker.

[lovewave]

Dude! You're gettin' a Carvin!

I think most people who don't like Carvins either haven't owned one or
owned one back in the 80's or early 90's when they were targeting the
metal crowd.

I think the Holdsworth and the Bolt-Plus/C66 are great guitars and
certainly the best bargain in a "custom shop" type of axe out there.

Anyway, back to synth controllers... I'm considering moving my
Brian Moore DC/1p.13... not actively pursuing it yet, but it definitely
gets the least play of all of my axes. I'm just not really a LP-type.

--Tom

Had a Bolt and a Belair. They were both very unimpressive.

[girevik]

Just goes to show we're all looking for different things.

I want to play and sound like Allan Holdsworth. :lol:

Some of the time, anyway. Tim Miller might actually be closer to what I'm going for, and like Allan, he plays a Steinberger-inspired instrument. I know this is sounding ironic, coming from someone who is in an indie/post-rock type of band.

[tms13pin]

I'm with you on the Belair/Nomad.... had a Nomad and didn't like it at
all. It was even Hasserlized too. I had a bolt plus T for a bit and really
liked the neck, but it was HSH like my Brian Moore C90, and the C90 also
has the piezo and 13 pin, so the Bolt didn't get much love. The Holdsworth
is a totally different animal than anything else Carvin makes. Probably
something people either love or hate because the neck is a fairly fat C.
I like it though, and it's the only Carvin I own. Had a DC127 but I sent it
back as the neck was too much of a "D" shredder neck for me, which isn't
my thing.

So, I'm curious about the neck on this NS-1. I know its supposed to be
more for classical playing. It would be cool to have one of these, but I
know it wouldn't get any use (as my Godin ACS nylon didn't).

The neck on the Brian Moore C90's is my favorite neck currently, short of
my '79/80 strat which I still think has the most comfortable neck ever, but
probably because I've owned it new since early '81.

--Tom