New Computer Help

[martini1881]

So I killed my laptop (Damn static electricty). It was kinda old so not worth repairing. Now I have to get a new computer and since I enjoy recording I thought I would try to upgrade my system for recording. I am going for a desktop this time so I get a bit more for my money and I never moved the laptop anyway. I dont have alot of money and need to get a new computer ASAP because I am in college and need to get work done on it.

Looking around the forums I see that people seem to think the Intel Core 2 is the way to go so I will look for that. Is 1GB DDR2 enough for home recording or should I try to get 2GB? Anything else I should look for in the hardware department?

Also when looking around today I noticed that all the computers already have Vista loaded on them. I know from the other thread that many people do not seem to trust Vista yet. How much will this affect me? I use Sonar with a handful of plugins and record through a PreSonus firewire interface. The PreSonus website said they should have drivers for vista fairly soon. Will I be okay for running Sonar and my plugins on Vista? I read something about there being two vista modes the 32bit and 64 bit. Am I understanding correctly that these programs will only run on the 32 bit version? Is this an option when first installing Vista?

Thanks for your help. Any other suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

[HackedByChinese!]

Comments, in no particular order:

Core 2 is the way to go.
You should attempt to get 2GB RAM if at all possible.
Unless you are buying a PC prebuilt, you should probably wait to upgrade to Vista, for several reasons.

And a question: Do you plan to build the machine yourself, or buy it prebuilt?

[martini1881]

Most likely prebuilt because I need one quickly. Unless it is fast to hand build one? I would think not. I can work on computers fine, I just don't know very much about hardware and what I would want if buying individual parts. Also, I need a monitor, keyboard, etc. because I used to use a laptop, so the package deals of prebuilt machines are very tempting.

[HackedByChinese!]

Most likely prebuilt because I need one quickly. Unless it is fast to hand build one? I would think not. I can work on computers fine, I just don't know very much about hardware and what I would want if buying individual parts. Also, I need a monitor, keyboard, etc. because I used to use a laptop, so the package deals of prebuilt machines are very tempting.

Do you have a budget in mind? Which version of Sonar are you running? I can easily make some hardware recommendations based on those factors. :)

[martini1881]

I am looking to spend $1000 or under total (w/ monitor). I am running Sonar 6. I also have various plug ins and vsts that I run when using it. How do you go about building one yourself?

[HackedByChinese!]

That's a tough budget, but it can be done. You aren't going to find a prebuilt machine for that price with a Core 2 Duo, though, Give me a bit and I'll come up with a parts list for you.

[HackedByChinese!]

Okay, this is what I came up with. It's about ~$150 over your budget, though there are things that can be cut out to lower the cost. Building the thing is quite simple-you just have to make sure that all of the parts will work together, which these should.

Processor: Intel Core 2 Duo E6300 @ 1.86 GHz
Motherboard: ASUS P5B Deluxe
Kingston RAM (1GB DDR2-800)
EVGA nVidia 7300GT video card
Seagate 320GB HD
Sony DVD/CD burner/reader
Antec SLK3000 case
SeaSonic S12-430 power supply
Acer AL1706ab 17" LCD monitor
Windows Vista Home Premium
total: $1122.41

Tell me what you think.

[martini1881]

That sounds good, but what would be the advantages over a prebuilt machine like this:
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=999966900050007&type=product&productCategoryId=pcmcat103700050050&id=pcmprd66900050007


Alot of it seems to be similar. Thanks alot for your help I really appreciate it. I don't know too much about this stuff.

[martini1881]

or this one:
http://www.circuitcity.com/rpsm/oid/171276/rpem/ccd/productDetail.do


What make these so cheep?

[HackedByChinese!]

Both of the above are pretty good machines. I especially like the one from Circuit City for bang-for-the-buck. You are correct in that they are pretty similar, but as the saying goes, the devil is in the details.

The video card will be an issue if you're looking to run Vista with all of its features enabled, like the new Aero interface. You'll also get slightly better video quality from the video card I spec'd. Part of the problem I would have with the HP machines is that they both use integrated graphics chips, which are not nearly as fast as a discrete video card. Also, should you want to do some mild gaming later on, that card will allow you to do so with good performance.

The other issue is that both of the HP machines use a rather slow variety of RAM, which is going to affect recording performance. DDR2 800 is quick, and would be a better choice due to its increased speed. The motherboard I specified also allows you to add up to 8GB of RAM, as opposed to the 4GB max allowed by the HPs, so should you ever need to upgrade, you have the option to add much more RAM than you would with the HPs.

The reason that the HP machines are so cheap is that they come with loads of free trial software like Yahoo toolbars, desktop search stuff, and free Internet trials that just take up space on your hard disk and adversely affect system performance. Because HP includes all of this, it allows them to sell the machine for a cheaper price than they would be able to normally, because they are paid to include the software on their machines by the companies that make it. It's a pain to get all of it off of the machine, and you really don't need it.

While you *could* go with the prebuilt stuff, you'll get better performance and more life out of your system if you build something yourself. If you're handy with a screwdriver and an instruction manual, putting the whole thing together requires two or three hours. It isn't all that hard if you're careful and have patience.

[alphajerk]

FUCK HP machines. DO NOT BUY HP [or compaq]! evil evil evil.

the machine recommended above is nice, or try the intel965 board instead of the asus. try corsair xms2 ram and get 2gb. also NO home premium, unless you want MCE... but business would be better. XP would be best right now, pro version. the sony CD burnder is okay, get a lightscribe, and make sure its dual layer. costs same, but can buy 2x the space. also, you need a 80GB system drive to go with that 320GB drive. the seagate 7900.10 work fine, quiet as hell. 5 year warranty. the 7900.9 will work for system drive. only 8MB buffer <250GB, 16MB buffer +250GB drives. seasonic PSUs get OKAY ratings but id up the W a tad, above 500 and up is good [within reason, no need for some 1000W supply]. a 7300 for vid isnt as strong as you realyl should get for running vista, 7600gs minimum [can find them <$100, i got mine for $64], 256MB on them MIN. try to find a fanless version.

that sould run you @ $1k plus time spend getting it up and running.

[martini1881]

You guys are very convincing.

Where is the best place to order these individual parts from?

[Big Boss Man]

Where is the best place to order these individual parts from?

www.newegg.com

[HackedByChinese!]

FUCK HP machines. DO NOT BUY HP [or compaq]! evil evil evil.

the machine recommended above is nice, or try the intel965 board instead of the asus. try corsair xms2 ram and get 2gb. also NO home premium, unless you want MCE... but business would be better. XP would be best right now, pro version. the sony CD burnder is okay, get a lightscribe, and make sure its dual layer. costs same, but can buy 2x the space. also, you need a 80GB system drive to go with that 320GB drive. the seagate 7900.10 work fine, quiet as hell. 5 year warranty. the 7900.9 will work for system drive. only 8MB buffer <250GB, 16MB buffer +250GB drives. seasonic PSUs get OKAY ratings but id up the W a tad, above 500 and up is good [within reason, no need for some 1000W supply]. a 7300 for vid isnt as strong as you realyl should get for running vista, 7600gs minimum [can find them <$100, i got mine for $64], 256MB on them MIN. try to find a fanless version.

that sould run you @ $1k plus time spend getting it up and running.

He doesn't need something as powerful as a 7600GS if he isn't doing any gaming. A 7300GT is overkill for Aero to some extent-hell, it'll run fine on a GMA950 if you're desperate.

[ririzarry]

I dont have alot of money and need to get a new computer ASAP because I am in college and need to get work done on it.


Hi martini:

Here's my completely different take on the advice you've heard so far...

I prefer building my machines but when you state you "don't know very much about hardware" that suggests to me that you shouldn't be building. You also mention not having a lot of money or time. Assuming you get the machine assembled, what happens if something goes wrong? If you don't know about hardware, where do you start for support? With an off the shelf system, you have one stop shopping with support. With a home built, you have several vendors each of which will blame the vendor or you for the problem. I think you're better off avoiding the potential headaches...


Regards,

Rob

[niomosy]

What I'm particularly curious about is: why Vista?

Given that it's still brand new and still having companies get their drivers solid and up to date with Vista's new way of dealing with drivers and hardware, I'd tend to shy away from it unless you really feel the need to go through the Open Public Beta Test known as the initial release of new software. Most tend to suggest waiting for SP1 to come out for Vista before really delving in and I tend to agree.

As for the OP's question in 32/64 bit. 32-bit apps should work on the 64-bit OS but there's always the potential for issues. You're going to have a bigger issue with drivers. I'd probably not bother with the 64-bit OS for now.

[martini1881]

Thanks for the help everyone. After talking to a few friends who had built their own I decided to buy a prebuilt machine because of my time constraints. I didn't want to rush something together and then regret something i missed. Next time I need a computer I will definitely be looking into this when I have more time to research everything.

Anyway, things have been going pretty well, most of my programs and drivers have loaded on with little problems. I finally got to do a little recording this weekend and I was getting some pops and cracks while recording. If anyone has any suggestions please let me know (here or I started a new thread "Cracks and Pops Help")

Thanks again everyone!

[daklander]

FUCK HP machines. DO NOT BUY HP [or compaq]! evil evil evil.

And, you know this how?

Their packages are actually pretty good, and reasonably well priced. One only has to un-install all the "crap" that the machines come pre-installed with but many people find useful but you may not, and I certainly don't.
True, customer support is going to be from India, but if the OP builds his own system there won't be any customer support anyway. Their hardware is no longer proprietary so that eliminates the old compatibilty issues. I'd much rather purchase a HP system than a Dell system. HP is one of the better Linux supporters and runs AMD processors in their units if a person wants to go that way. Dell is Windows and Intel or nothing.

[martini1881]

And, you know this how?

Their packages are actually pretty good, and reasonably well priced. One only has to un-install all the "crap" that the machines come pre-installed with but many people find useful but you may not, and I certainly don't.
True, customer support is going to be from India, but if the OP builds his own system there won't be any customer support anyway. Their hardware is no longer proprietary so that eliminates the old compatibilty issues. I'd much rather purchase a HP system than a Dell system. HP is one of the better Linux supporters and runs AMD processors in their units if a person wants to go that way. Dell is Windows and Intel or nothing.

I actually did end up getting the HP that i posted earlier and so far have been happy. It only took 10 min to get all the preloaded crap off of it and most things are running well(see above).

[alphajerk]

just wait.... it WILL go to shit. i work on them FAR more often than any other company. they are always taking a crap. i actaully had to REDO an HP machine that i JUST redid a month ago. next time it shits out [probably next month], we are shooting it with a shotgun. crap machines with CRAP parts.

[alphajerk]

He doesn't need something as powerful as a 7600GS if he isn't doing any gaming. A 7300GT is overkill for Aero to some extent-hell, it'll run fine on a GMA950 if you're desperate.

i prefer headroom, especially when things start getting more complex. and the price is so low anyway on them. more pixel pipelines, faster core and memory speed... pretty much same price from manufacturer to manufacturer from 7300 to 7600. just why *I* would do that.

[alphajerk]

oh and WHY run AMD now?!? Intel has them speed and compatibility beat right now [and doesnt look to change soon]... oh linux, you running webservers or something with them? thats about all i can find a use for linux.

[niomosy]

And, you know this how?

Their packages are actually pretty good, and reasonably well priced. One only has to un-install all the "crap" that the machines come pre-installed with but many people find useful but you may not, and I certainly don't.
True, customer support is going to be from India, but if the OP builds his own system there won't be any customer support anyway. Their hardware is no longer proprietary so that eliminates the old compatibilty issues. I'd much rather purchase a HP system than a Dell system. HP is one of the better Linux supporters and runs AMD processors in their units if a person wants to go that way. Dell is Windows and Intel or nothing.

Few things...

Couldn't care less about HP supporting Linux or not. Plenty of shops run Linux on Dell. Given that you're probably going to get your Linux support straight from Red Hat or SuSe, it's not a huge point. So long as the drivers are there, that's the important thing. I don't imagine most people are going to care about HP's Linux push anyway, given that we're talking about a desktop used for audio software. Linux isn't exactly a prime choice for a DAW.

AMD processors? Again, so? Intel's got the crown right now. Further, you're less likely to have issues with Intel vs. AMD (just look at Hardforum's AMD forum on AMD dual-core processors and gaming... 5 different solutions to fix games running on dual-core AMD's and some of those fixes break other games. Pure genius. My friend's Intel 920? He doesn't do a damn thing and games work just fine).

You don't seem to have checked Dell's site lately. Dell has AMD's up for purchase. As for your mention of Windows only for Dell, the same appears to be true of HP. Your OS selection for desktops consists of various options of... Windows. In either case, you'll probably have to call Dell or HP to have them yank Windows from the order if you don't want it (which, last I recall, they are required to do). On the server side, Dell lists RHEL and SLES as Linux options so you really can't claim that Dell's Windows/Intel only as that just doesn't appear to be the case. Sure, they're much more in the Wintel camp than HP appears to be but this is the same HP that once was trying to move its' HP-UX customers to Windows NT/2000 and lost some customers to Solaris and AIX because of it (I've talked to / seen job postings for several companies moving off HP-UX to Solaris or AIX).

If you're going to go into philosophy advantages with HP, you should also note that with HP there's also their nice little scandal ;)

[alphajerk]

If you're going to go into philosophy advantages with HP, you should also note that with HP there's also their nice little scandal ;)

that part only made me laugh about my hatred towards HP/compaq somehow justifying it at a deeper more evil level.


and and if i missed earlier about uninstalling the "crap", yeah its CRAP alright. sadly it all doesnt FULLY uninstall. manufacturers are really starting to annoy me with their "add-ins" and OEM "recovery" discs. Dell does a pretty good job [or did with XP pro] of leaving EVERYTHING off it except the OS. that was a delightful suprise from them last 5 computers we got from them. been through 4 HP/compaq machines in the last year at one of my clients which i have now banned them from obtaining anything from HP/compaq [they have offered to supply the shotgun to end these machines misery]... oh, and they went through 2 HP all in ones... 3rd still doesnt work PROPER.

such is the life of computers i guess.

[sabluka]

just wait.... it WILL go to shit. i work on them FAR more often than any other company. they are always taking a crap. i actaully had to REDO an HP machine that i JUST redid a month ago. next time it shits out [probably next month], we are shooting it with a shotgun. crap machines with CRAP parts.

alpha:

I liked yoru spec. good deal.

I also need to be able to add scci and adat and spdif cards. I can build but need parts list..

can u rec those again..

Your rec for ram is right on and right..Very Imp as you wld agree.

rick

[niomosy]

that part only made me laugh about my hatred towards HP/compaq somehow justifying it at a deeper more evil level.


and and if i missed earlier about uninstalling the "crap", yeah its CRAP alright. sadly it all doesnt FULLY uninstall. manufacturers are really starting to annoy me with their "add-ins" and OEM "recovery" discs. Dell does a pretty good job [or did with XP pro] of leaving EVERYTHING off it except the OS. that was a delightful suprise from them last 5 computers we got from them. been through 4 HP/compaq machines in the last year at one of my clients which i have now banned them from obtaining anything from HP/compaq [they have offered to supply the shotgun to end these machines misery]... oh, and they went through 2 HP all in ones... 3rd still doesnt work PROPER.

such is the life of computers i guess.

I must admit, Dell's rebuild disc was pretty damn good as far as keeping out the crap. The downside is that you have to do most everything yourself (install the drivers for everything, install any desired apps). The upside is that I got the OS installed without all the extra junk. Had to do that recently on my wife's Dell when her laptop's drive gave up. It wasn't too bad.