Trombone advice

[heymelbs]

My son is just starting out with the trombone (6th grade) and was selected to the honor band, so he seems to be pretty good for his age. We have had a rental for the last 6 months, but are considering upgrading to a better horn for him since it looks like he plans to stick it out. We have looked at King, Conn, and have heard good things about Yamaha's. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

[soundministries]

Good for you for being a supportive parent in your kid's musical interests.

The ones that I would look at, not knowing your anticipated budget, would be the Blessing B88 (http://www.1800usaband.com/htmls/itemview.asp?itemid=116) Jupiter 636L (http://www.1800usaband.com/htmls/itemview.asp?itemid=321) or Bach Strad (http://www.1800usaband.com/htmls/itementryview.asp?itementryid=10124) as some of the horns I'd look at. The biggest things I'd look for would be an 8"-8.5" bell and a .547 bore. These would give your son a good all around horn to play. It might be a little bulky/heavy at first depending on his size, but the F-trigger would definitly be a need IMO as a MS/HS band director. I would have no problem reccomending my students buy a Conn, King, Yamaha, Bach, or Jupiter so long as they were the intermediate lines. A lot of their cheaper student lines are junk, but the same could be said of any company with just about anything made today.

My personal trombones are a King Sivlersonic 3B with F-trigger (small bore tenor horn) and a Jupiter 740L bass trombone (my main player). I love them both, but I mainly play the Jupiter as I'm a bass player rather than a lead player. I don't know what you know about band instruments, but please don't let the Jupiter name throw you off, these are fantastic horns for the money and are generally less than the comperable Bach or Yamaha.

Hope this helps a little.

[clemonsjw]

.547 bore trombones (that's 547 thousandths of an inch), also called a "large bore" tenor, or "symphonic tenor" are definately the standard for all types of advanced-level playing except jazz.

However, large-bore tenors require more air and are noticably heavier (especially with an F attachment) than small bore instruments. This is not something that can't be overcome, even by a 6th grader, but its good to be aware that there will be an adjustment. Also, for many youngsters the left hand can become fatuiged more quickly holding a heavier instrument and he or she may find it difficult to hold for long periods of time (possibly cutting into the willingness to practice as much).

One note if you decide on a used instrument, be sure the slide is in good shape: It should move freely without any bumps. Move it back and forth slowly, carefully feeling for anything that's not perfectly smooth. Then pull the outer slide all the way off and line up the inner slide - the ends should match. If you have to bend the inner slide to get it back in, it's sprung. Also check the inner slide for any worn nickle (beside the last few inches where its thicker), this is a sign that either the outer or inner slide is bowed.

The "industry standard" is arguably split between the Bach 42T or 42A
http://www.wwbw.com/Bach-42T-Stradivarius-Pro-Trombone-with-Thayer-Valve-i25035.music
http://www.wwbw.com/Bach-42A-Stradivarius-Trombone-with-Hagmann-Valve-i18100.music
and the Conn 88H
http://www.wwbw.com/Conn-88H-Symphony-Series-Pro-F-Attachment-Trombone-i24321.music
although many symphony players use the non-F attachment version of these, the Bach 42 and Conn 8H respectively.

Of all the step up instruments, I think I'd have to recomend the Blessing B88 (notice the similarity in naming to the Conn 88H) it's available in a variety of configurations, the open wrap F is probably a good choice. The rose brass bell option has a higher copper content which some prefer, thinking it has a slightly warmer tone (definately an arguable point on which bell is better).

Good luck!
Jay C

[thenagus]

My personal trombones are a King Sivlersonic 3B with F-trigger (small bore tenor horn) and [/B]

Sir, may I congradulate you on excellent taste - I also play a silversonic 3B :D

As for the original posters question, although being a brit and having no idea what an honor band is or how old a 6th grader is...
If he's not been playing for that long, I won't worry about getting an expensive pro model like a bach 42, Conn 88H, etc. Apart from anything else, it's a lot of money to spend on something that may not get that much use if he decides to give it up.
Spend as much time as you can with him trying out possible instruments. The most important thing, I would say, is that he enjoys playing it.
Also, do consder getting second-hand instruments. If a horn has been looked after reasonably well, it will play just as well as a first-hand horn, even if the lacquer has started to wear off. If any local brass shops have second-hand instruments, try them. Personally, I'd be inclined to buy a good instrument second-hand rather than an OK instrument first-hand. (Though I'd never advise buying a trombone second-hand that you've never seen. From ebay, for example. Bad idea. )

[soundministries]

Originally posted by thenagus
Sir, may I congradulate you on excellent taste - I also play a silversonic 3B :D



It's a very nice horn, but a bit small for me considering that my main axe is a tuba:D . The whole reason I have it is that I came across it in a pawn shop for very little money. Had it cleaned and I've got a great horn for 1/4th of what it's worth.

[sunburstbasser]

My college has numerous older Yamaha trombones that I've rented out. Most of the trombonists really like them.

You could also take a look at Kanstul. Their trumpets are great, I'd expect the trombones to be nice as well. Not quite as pricey as Bachs, in general.

[heymelbs]

We have 2 King 606 rental trombones from different music stores. One we are currently using, it's pretty scratched up, but the slide is in pretty good shape. The other horn is immaculate, but the slide sticks. We are just checking around the area, because I think I would prefer starting with a used student horn and if he gets really good switching to a better horn. The King 606 seems like a nice horn to get started with.

[danrothmusic]

I play on a bach tb200b (http://www.wwbw.com/Bach-TB200---TB200B-Intermediate-Trombones-i22328.music); it is a medium bore (.525), with an F-attachment.
I find this to be the perfect horn for me, and recommend it to you and your son, if he is planning on sticking with trombone.
I decided to go with a medium bore because the trombone is not my first instrument (I'm a drummer)--I play it in school band only, because they didn't have enough low brass when I joined. So, because it is only a secondary instrument, I will not always have the lung capacity to play on a large-bore horn. Due to the lung capacity issue, I recommend a medium-bore trombone for your son, who will sound better on a medium bore because he is still rather young, and has not fully developed his lungs.
The f-attachment is a must for a serious trombonist. It allows for alternate--often more practical--positions, and makes it easier to hit some of the low notes between the low and pedal registers.
Another plus to this horn is the price; at only about $1000 (USD), it is very affordable, for an instrument.

I went to the WoodwindBrasswind (http://www.wwbw.com) outlet store to try out multiple horns to see which one would be best for me, and I found the Bach to fit the bill.
I played on similar models from Getzen, Yamaha and Blessing.
The Getzen and Blessing were nice, but I must tell you that a Yamaha is not as good of a horn. It played as well as the others, but there was just something lacking from the tone quality.

In the end, the decision is up to your son, so the best idea is to play on as many different sizes, models and brands of horn that you can, and choose that way.

[heymelbs]

Originally posted by danrothmusic
I play on a bach tb200b (http://www.wwbw.com/Bach-TB200---TB200B-Intermediate-Trombones-i22328.music); it is a medium bore (.525), with an F-attachment.
I find this to be the perfect horn for me, and recommend it to you and your son, if he is planning on sticking with trombone.
I decided to go with a medium bore because the trombone is not my first instrument (I'm a drummer)--I play it in school band only, because they didn't have enough low brass when I joined. So, because it is only a secondary instrument, I will not always have the lung capacity to play on a large-bore horn. Due to the lung capacity issue, I recommend a medium-bore trombone for your son, who will sound better on a medium bore because he is still rather young, and has not fully developed his lungs.
The f-attachment is a must for a serious trombonist. It allows for alternate--often more practical--positions, and makes it easier to hit some of the low notes between the low and pedal registers.
Another plus to this horn is the price; at only about $1000 (USD), it is very affordable, for an instrument.


I guess this poses an interesting question - should a young trombone player be starting on a trigger? I didn't get one until my sophmore year in high school. Never really took advantage of the trigger because I wasn't used to it. I would have liked to start at a younger age with a trigger and make it a part of the learning process.

A trigger would also help with the shorter arms that aren't able to reach 7th position.

I guess it could be an interesting question for his band teachers.

Thoughts???

[soundministries]

Originally posted by heymelbs
I guess this poses an interesting question - should a young trombone player be starting on a trigger? I didn't get one until my sophmore year in high school. Never really took advantage of the trigger because I wasn't used to it. I would have liked to start at a younger age with a trigger and make it a part of the learning process.

A trigger would also help with the shorter arms that aren't able to reach 7th position.

I guess it could be an interesting question for his band teachers.

Thoughts???

My opinion as a band teacher is yes get him a triggered horn assuming that you can find one that fits his hands and isn't too heavy for him to hold. The short arm issue is one of the biggest reasons and then a close second is the alternate positions that it offers.

[danrothmusic]

Yes, I think you should get him a triggered horn. Like Soundministries says, the trigger helps greatly for short-armed players (and most 6th-graders have fairly short arms), and is still useful even after the player has gotten longer.
I almost did not get an f-attachment, because of the price, but now I am glad to have shelled out the extra money--it has been well worth it.

[heymelbs]

Would you buy a trombone from an online music store, or go with a local retailer?

[soundministries]

Originally posted by heymelbs
Would you buy a trombone from an online music store, or go with a local retailer?

I've bought all of my horns from internet retailers and wouldn't hesitate to do so again, but. . .I had tried most of them out before and knew exactly what I wanted. Since I have access to the music educator's conferences and have played with many different collegiate & semi-professional bands I have had the opportunity to play before I bought so I have that advantage.

Go to your local store and play everything that you can, try the local pawn shops too, and then try to wheel and deal with them. If you can come close in price with your local store compared to the internet then all the better for you when you need servicing. I prefer to do business locally but my local store can't even come close to the prices from places like WWBW or Taylor Music so I do end up purchasing online.

[sunburstbasser]

I hesitate to order from WWBW, but there are smaller web-shops like www.dillonmusic.com that can come close in price to WWBW while offering the closest thing to local service you'll get from a store 1000 miles away.

[danrothmusic]

I say go with local--that way you can hear and play on the horn first, and support local business!
(I went to WWBW because the outlet is fairly close to where I live)