TC ELECTRONIC KONNEKT 24D (FireWire Audio Interface)

[Anderton]

And here we go with another Pro Review, this time on TC Electronic's Konnekt 24D. Just to remind everyone of the ground rules, this is an interactive review that's open to all comments, questions, and answers! I've alerted TC to the fact that this review has started, and someone from the company will be monitoring this thread in case anyone has questions for TC (or if they want to argue with something I said!)

Anyway, as you're already connected to the net or you wouldn't be reading this, we're not going to re-invent the wheel and go over the specs. You can get those here (http://www.tcelectronic.com/Default.asp?Id=7618) anyway from the TC web site, along with a video, pictures, and all sorts of other useful bits of info. What we'll concentrate on is the user experience, the "out of the box" process of installing and using it, and applications.

Pro Reviews start when I open the box, and I like to start off by taking the unit apart and checking out the build quality. So let's check out the "Konnekt 24D photo album" so you can get an idea of what it looks like, along with comments about the construction.

[Anderton]

The Konnekt 24D is classy, no way around it, including details like the packaging and the inclusion of a Firewire cable so you don't have to hunt one up on your own. It has that minimalist sort of Euro look, which probably isn't too surprising given that TC is based in Denmark.

The box feels substantial, and has a one-piece wraparound brushed aluminum outside. Click on the attachment to see an overall view of the case. We'll look at details in the next few posts.

[Anderton]

The front panel is white with muted gray lettering, with light rings around the controls. Click on the attachment to see a picture of the front panel. No, that's not my camera lens distorting the knob shape: three of them really have elliptical knobs. This is a simple, but effective, way of making it easier to turn the knob without running into other controls (or plugs going into the inputs). A thick plastic overlay protects the lettering, and makes life hell for photographers when you're trying to get a shot that doesn't have too many reflections :)

[Anderton]

Okay, let's check out the back. Click on the attachment to see a picture of the full back panel. There are four line ins, four line outs, SPDIF I/O, and ADAT optical I/O. You'll also see MIDI in and out, two Firewire ports (you can daisy chain multiple Konnekts together), the jack for the "wall lump" adapter, and a power switch.

[Anderton]

I like to take things apart :) Yes, I really do. However, products seldom include a section in the manual called "here's how to take things apart," so I'm pretty much on my own.

I figured out how to remove the outer wraparound piece of aluminum, at which point I found that it was covering another box. I get the impression that whoever designed the case was promised a bonus if not one single electron was allowed to escape the insides. I mean, this baby is shielded, including a little copper braid that makes sure the output jacks contact the metal casing.

To take off the casing, you have to remove four teeny tiny screws around the MIDI connectors (visible in the previous shot). These require nanometer hex wrenches. Okay, I'm kidding, but they are really really small. Kids, don't try this at home!

Anyway, much to my delight (and probably the chagrin of anyone from TC who's reading this), I was able to expose the innards. Click on the attachment to see the insides of the Konnekt 24D.

[Anderton]

Here's a close-up of the Firewire interface itself; click on the attachment to see it. This came as a bit of a surprise -- with other units I've opened up, these have often been fairly large cards, whereas all you see here is the card toward the upper part of the picture, and the various support components around it. But a closer inspection reveals why: Note the big square chip toward the middle that says "Wavefront." I'm presuming this is the famous DICE II Firewire chip that handles most of the "firewiring."

[Anderton]

You may have noticed the Neutrik combo connectors on the front panel and inside shot; the line connectors (click on the attachment) are sturdy as well. Overall, the construction seems substantial: quality parts, excellent shielding, and an ergonomic front panel. The only thing that makes me nervous is there seem to be a lot of electrolytic capacitors in there, but I guess there's not much you can do about that if you want to pass audio and keep out DC, as well as filter out noise.

[Anderton]

The Konnekt 24D comes with an installation CD. Translation: Check the web site for updates. Just a second...

Okay, I didn't find any updates under the Support part of the site, but did under the product blurb for the Konnekt 24D, where "Latest Software" is located toward the bottom of the product menu. Suggestion to TC: Put a big button on the front page that says "click here for updates," and have that take you to a list updates for all your products. This might make it easier for people to stay up to date.

Anyway, there are two updates to download: A full installer of the V1.02 software, and the freebie version of Assimilator (more on this later) for the Konnekt. Both combined are about 6MB for Windows and 26MB forthe Mac, so it's not a big deal.

I also noticed the option to download the latest version of the manual. As the box doesn't included a printed manual, just a quick start guide on how to install the software, I figured I'd better download it.

So I clicked on manual, and found there are separate versions for English, German, French, Spanish, Japanese, and Italian. Nice! Think I'll download a few of them and practice my other languages :) There's the same roster of manuals for the Assimilator, so I figured I'd better grab that one too. I'll be back...

[Anderton]

Okay, it's installing now on my Windows computer. I noticed that TC doesn't tell you to ignore the "Not passed Windows Logo testing" Screen of Paranoia. I guess everyone pretty much knows that screen is more or less meaningless, but some newbies might get confused.

Anyway, this is one of those deals where you install the drivers first, then connect the hardware....so far so good. Konnekt also installs the "Near" control panel with five pages: Mixer applet, setup, the two signal processors (Fabrik A and Fabrick C -- much more on this later), and an About screen.

Being a sucker for About screens, I clicked on that first. There are two options: Update Firmware, and Reset to Default. I clicked on Update Firmware, and sure enough, it directed me to a "Firmware" folder in the update I'd just downloaded. As it said "861" and the build number on the About screen said "Build 744," I figured "higher number = good" and initiated the update. Click on the attachment to see the About screen during the update process.

It said "Success" and when I checked the About screen again, it said Firmware version 1.01 Build 861. Cool!

Bottom line on the installation process: Easy. However, the Quick Start sheet doesn't say anything about "check for firmware updates;" it's in the manual, but there's no guarantee someone buying Konnekt 24D will know to check the About page, download the firmware, etc. I definitely think the Konnekt 24D documentation would be well-served by a little more hand-holding.

[Anderton]

Time to get serious and get some audio running through the interface. Click on the attachment to see the mixer applet.

Before going any further, though, I should emphasize that one of the Big Deals about the Konnekt 24 is that it includes built-in DSP with two separate effects, the Fabrik C channel strip and Fabrik R reverb. Inputs 1 and 2 each have a Fabrik C as an insert effect, while Fabrik R is a send effect for all channels. The effects actually do more than this, but these are the basics we need to know for how they work with the mixer.

I plugged a dynamic mic into input 2, and was pleasantly surprised to see the grayed-out connector in the applet turn solid to indicate something was plugged in. I then plugged a guitar into input 1, and its little graphic also changed from grayed-out to solid.

However, I was unpleasantly surprised that there's no indication on either the front panel or within the applet when phantom power is applied (which goes to both inputs simultaneously), other than the front panel pushbutton being in the down (pushed in) position.

Those who saw the Onyx Satellite Pro Review may recall that one of the issues was phantom power being only 38V, so I measured the phantom power on the 24D when bus-powered: +49.1V on the nose, with no difference when using the AC adapter instead of bus power.

Okay, back to the mixer. Starting from the left, there's channel 1 with its meter, send control (this goes to the Fabrik R reverb processor), pan, and fader, along with a mute and solo switch. Also note the Fabrik C effect inserted in the channel, and again, we'll cover the effects in detail later. We'll also cover how the front panel interacts with the mixer applet, which is pretty cool.

Channel 2 is the same as channel 1, however, there's also an option in the Setup menu that lets you link these together into one stereo channel. Next channel over is a streo pair for inputs 3+4 on the back panel, with the same basic complement of controls. (Inputs 1+2 on the back panel are the same as the front panel 1+2 ins, but there's a front panel switch that lets you switch between the front and rear panel inputs. Thus, you could have two separate sets of outputs plugged into 1+2, and switch between them as desired.)

The channels to the right of ins 1, 2, and 3+4 handle the digital ins. We're getting a little ahead of ourselves here, but not all digital options are available simultaneously, which you choose on the setup screen: You can choose among four stereo pairs of ADAT channels, three stereo pairs of ADAT + coaxial SPDIF, or optical + coaxial SPDIF. The channels change to reflect what you've chosen, e.g., four stereo inputs if you chose ADAT 1-8, or two stereo inputs if you chose optical + coaxial SPDIF.

The final input channel is a return from your DAW, which again has the same controls but without a send control. Lastly is the master out, with fader, meter, return level from the Fabrik R, and the ever-so-considerate "dim" switch so you can turn down the levels when the phone rings :)

There are also some preset management buttons in the lower left for recalling presets with different input assignments and the like. You can save and load your own presets, of course.

And that's it for today, as we've gotten the Konnekt 24D photographed, pried apart, installed, updated, and actually passing audio. Let's see what the next installment brings...

[Mike Martin]

Craig,

First of all thanks for your thorough introduction to the product. Its amazing you took the time to take the product apart; that's not easy ;)

Second, I'll be here to answer any questions that come up during the review. So if you or anyone else has questions regarding Konnekt 24D (or Konnekt 8) just let me know.

Last, I've added another mixer screenshot (see the attachment below). I just wanted to show that the mixer screen is dynamic and will adapt in size and appearance depending on your digital I/O configuration. This shot also shows multiple Konnekt's in use. Note that this screen shot was made with an earlier (beta) version of the software so some of the labels like the system settings graphic are different. I'm in an airport and didn't have a Konnekt accessible at the moment to take a new screenshot.

Take care,

Mike Martin
TC|US

[Neverthere]

Hi Mike, when is konnekt 8 hitting the states? I have one on order but it seems to keep getting delayed.

[Anderton]

<< I just wanted to show that the mixer screen is dynamic and will adapt in size and appearance depending on your digital I/O configuration. >>

That's a point worth emphasizing, I sort of glossed over it when I said "The channels change to reflect what you've chosen, e.g., four stereo inputs if you chose ADAT 1-8, or two stereo inputs if you chose optical + coaxial SPDIF." I'll include some screen shots as I try other configurations, like feeding the DigiMAX FS into the ADAT in.

As to being in an airport without a Konnekt...jeez, Mike, it's really not that big, and it CAN be bus-powered :)

[Yggdrasil]

Hello,


I just got mine since 2 weeks.

I Don't have enough knowledge and haven't tested so much gear to make a review.

But I have one question.

My Konnekt 24 is getting very hot, very quickly, even with only playback in winamp...

I'm close to cook an egg on it ... :/

I'd Like to know if this is normal, or it is my unit that got a problem ?

Thought I haven't noticed any troubles using it when hot...


Thx for your answer and sorry for my bad english ...

[Mike Martin]

The heat is completely normal. Take a look at the "inside" picture that Craig posted, there is a lot going on in a very small space but its built to take the heat.

-Mike Martin
TC|US

[Mike Martin]

Originally posted by Neverthere
Hi Mike, when is konnekt 8 hitting the states? I have one on order but it seems to keep getting delayed.

They are shipping, but just started shipping. Send me a PM with your dealer's name and I'll check into it for you.

-Mike Martin
TC|US

[Anderton]

<<My Konnekt 24 is getting very hot, very quickly, even with only playback in winamp...

I'm close to cook an egg on it ... :/>>


Hmmm...my doesn't seem all that hot, definitely warm though. I couldn't cook an egg on it, but I could keep toast warm :)

Maybe that's one reason for the wraparound aluminum -- it serves as a heat sink.

[Jacoustic]

Hey Craig,

First of all, as a first time poster, a big thanks for all your contributions to pro audio for the small studio over the years. I've been reading your articles for quite some time.

I know this is very early in the review, but I'd be very interested in detailed comments about the preamps. I'm in the market for a new interface and that is very important to me. (I would be getting the Konnekt 8 but it seems the preamps are identical to the 24d.)

If you've heard any of the Focusrite Saffire series, I'd be interested in hearing how the Konnekt pres compare.

Thanks. Looking forward to the review!


P.S - A note to T.C.: You Konnekt webpages/marketing materials use so many acronyms, etc. (MINT, IMPACT, etc.) that it sets off the too good to be true radar. Just an opinion.

[Mike Martin]

Originally posted by Jacoustic

P.S - A note to T.C.: You Konnekt webpages/marketing materials use so many acronyms, etc. (MINT, IMPACT, etc.) that it sets off the too good to be true radar. Just an opinion.

Jacoustic,
Thanks for the note. TC Electronic has developed some remarkable technlogy over the years. Konnekt encompasses the latest of these efforts including technlogy from award winning products like System 6000, Dynaudio AIR and PowerCore. I suspect that there are many people shopping for an audio interface that may not know anything about TC Electronic's history or what products like the System 6000 even are. This might make me skeptical too! I assure you that with Konnekt, its the first time that this proven technology has been available anywhere near this price range.

As an example MINT found in the Fabrik effects is an incredibly unique way of working with effects. I believe that the MINT interface allows a user to focus on getting the right sound quickly and easily rather than getting lost tweaking countless knobs. Its an easy way for someone that has never used a compressor to get a good sound yet it has all the control and sound quality an experienced user would expect too. I'm sure Craig address your concerns as he continues through the review but I believe the quality of Konnekt will speak for itself and that this isn't just marketing hype.

Take care,

Mike Martin
TC|US

[Anderton]

As someone who doesn't really like acronyms either, I must say the MINT thing is pretty cool...and yes, we will be getting into that as the review goes on.

As to preamps, I'm also doing a Pro Review of the PreSonus DigiMAX FS, which (short form) has inputs for 8 mics and sends these out over an ADAT light pipe connection. For more details, check out the DigiMAX FS Pro Review.

Anyway, Mike Martin made a comment in the DigiMAX FS review about how it would make a good expander module for the Konnekt 24D if people wanted more than the K24D's two mic pre inputs. So having both units in front of me, it seemed like a good idea to compare the mic pres in the two devices. I had already come up with a comparison methodology as I had compared the mic pres in the DigiMAX FS with those of the E-Mu 1820, so I just applied that to comparing the DigiMAX FS and Konnekt 24D.

Now, before I go on, I want to express my own personal biases regarding mic preamps so you know where I'm coming from. To save time, I'll just cut and paste from the same rant in the DigiMAX FS review.

I believe there are basically three types of mic pres in this world:

* Cheapo pres. This is what you find in budget gear. They tend to be somewhat harsher and don't feel as "flat," but even cheap pres aren't all that awful these days. We won't even consider the pres you find in consumer sound cards and such.

* Middle-class "designer" pres. These are what you find in better quality mid-class gear, like the Mackie Onyx preamps, those in the 1820m, and the PreSonus. These are basically preamps that people would have killed for back in the 70s, when for this kind of price you usually ended up buying a white noise generator.

* Big-bucks "designer" pres. A good frame of reference here is the PreSonus ADL 600, or products from Manley, Demeter, etc. You don't just buy these because they're accurate, you buy them because they have a certain "character" that enhances the source.

Fact is, mic pre technology has progressed dramatically over the past decade or two. All companies making serious products have raised the bar; past a certain fairly low price threshold, you'll get a quality preamp without the "wooliness" or noise you heard from preamps of a similar price only a few years ago.

So while you may hear some quantitative differences between this new generation of "upper middle class" preamps, you won't hear many qualitative ones. After recording several tracks alternating betwen the E-Mu 1820m, Konnekt 24D, and DigiMAX FS, the only tracks where I could pick out a consistent difference was with those recorded through the 1820m, as they had just a hint of extra midrange (this was verified through spectrum analysis). And even then, I wouldn't say it sounded "worse" or "better," just "different" -- and this was something I noticed only with dynamic mics, not anything active, so I suspect we're looking at a mic-meets-impedance effect.

Now, to get to your question, how do the K24D's preamps sound compared to the Focusrite Saffire? And the answer is I don't have a Saffire here, so I can't do a direct comparison. But I'd almost be willing to bet that given that all these devices are in the same approximate price universe and use relatively similar technology (e.g., they're not using tubes), there's not going to be a huge difference. So in a way, when all these various companies talk about how they have great mic pres, they're all telling the truth. The technology really has gotten that good these days.

[Anderton]

Okay, let's talk about expanding the K24D with the DigiMAX FS, which is a typical "thingie with ADAT out and ADAT in" device.

There are some subtleties to how sync works with the K24D. There are actually two sync settings in the K24D control panel, one when it's working in stand-alone mode (found in the setup page), the other for when it's part of a system (which of course is the case when using it with an external ADAT device like the DigiMAX FS). I wanted to try both synching the DigiMAX FS to the K24D and vice-versa, so I scooted over to the System Settings page to edit the system clock settings. Click on the attachment to see the applet's System Settings page.

Note that this page is also where you set the latency (in this case, it's the default of 256 samples, but options are all the common "binary" values between 64 and 8192 samples). As to the system clock settings, you can see that the sync source is set to ADAT (other choices are Internal, Coaxial SPDIF, and Optical SPDIF), and the sample rate to 44.1kHz -- although the applet is reporting that the current sample rate being received from the DigiMAX FS is 44.082kHz.

[Anderton]

Connecting up the DigiMAX FS also showed off the "intelligent" aspect of the K24D mixer applet, as four stereo ADAT channels appeared, with meters, send, pan, solo, mute, etc. Click on the attachment to see how the mixer graphic changed with the ADAT-compatible device connected.

I wanted to see what would happen if I deliberately misset the DigiMAX FS, so I set it to external clock while keeping the K24D set to Interal. The DigiMAX FS's four sample LEDs "chase" so it's kind of hard to miss that there's a problem. At the K24D end of things, in the System Settings page the "External Lock" status turns red and says "No Reference" if you either change the sync relationship or sample rate at the DigiMAX FS.

Next, I set the K24D sync source to "Internal" without changing the DigiMAX FS to "External sync." A warning symbol (exclamation mark) showed up next to the ADAT inputs in the K24D ADAT channels, but audio still made it from the DigiMAX FS to the K24D, showed up in the meters, and sounded just fine. I must admit this mystified me; could it be that because both use the JetPLL technology that the clocks were so close they appeared to be synched, even if they weren't? And that if I waited long enough, eventually there would be enough drift to create a pop or other artifact? Maybe someone from PreSonus or TC could weigh on in this, because it always seems strange when something works when it supposedly shouldn't be working.

I then set the DigiMAX FS to External ADAT sync. The little warnings went away, and all was happy in sync-land. Still, I'm curious how I could get away with the mic sounding just fine going into the Konnekt 24D even though in theory, there was a sync problem and the K24D put up a clear graphic warning that things weren't as they should be.

Another surprise is that doing all these nasty clock things produced no clicks, pops, or "tearing" in the sound. I'm not sure if the K24D or the DigiMAX FS gets the credit for being well-behaved (I had the same experience when using the DigiMAX FS with the E-Mu 1820), but in case, it's nice to know I could be really careless with these settings and not have to worry about blowing out my eardrums or monitors.

[Anderton]

Bottom line is that the DigiMAX FS worked just fine as an expansion module. I also tried sample rates up to 96kHz at both ends -- no problem. However, I could not figure out how to get the Fabrik C processor into the ADAT signal path -- and yes, I looked at the manual! I get the impression that the Fabrik C processors work with inputs 1 and 2, or with your computer's host as an insert, and that's it. Mike -- am I missing something? Is this because they need to work with the mono inputs of the K24D, while the ADAT ins are set up as four stereo pairs?

I also wondered if there might be sonic differences between the K24D pres and the DigiMAX FS pres, but the differences are actually rather minimal to my ears. If you want to see a more detailed comparison of the K24D and DigiMAX FS preamps, click here (http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1424234&perpage=20&pagenumber=2) and go down 14 posts. There's also a spectral analysis of a miked signal going through the two pres.

[Mike Martin]

Originally posted by Anderton
However, I could not figure out how to get the Fabrik C processor into the ADAT signal path -- and yes, I looked at the manual! I get the impression that the Fabrik C processors work with inputs 1 and 2, or with your computer's host as an insert, and that's it. Mike -- am I missing something? Is this because they need to work with the mono inputs of the K24D, while the ADAT ins are set up as four stereo pairs?


Craig,
Fabrik C is fixed on inputs 1 and 2 or as a send/return from the DAW. I've attached a signal flow diagram from page 54 of the manual but I agree this should be more clear.

-Mike Martin
TC|US

[spokenward]

Craig (and probably Mike) -

Over here on the TCElectronic website (http://www.tcelectronic.com/Default.asp?Id=9142) they have this bit of wisdom:

* We recommend running Konnekts on a dedicated Firewire bus.
If you computer has one or more Firewire connections on the chassis they will typically run on the same Firewire bus. You may connect the Konnekt to one of these. If you intend to run more Firewire devices simultaneously, such as e.g. an external hard drive, we recommend running this device on a separate bus.This would typically be on an installed Firewire PCI card. Note that such a Firewire PCI card typically has 3 ports but these also operate on a single bus.

I would have every intention of using a firewire i/o (especially a third generation device like DICE II) with a laptop and an external firewire drive just on general cranky principles. Is it a bottleneck? Is it a new driver issue? Is it overcaution or weaseling? Can we get a clarification of this?

Pat

[Anderton]

<<Fabrik C is fixed on inputs 1 and 2 or as a send/return from the DAW. I've attached a signal flow diagram from page 54 of the manual but I agree this should be more clear.>>

Actually it was clear from the manual, but you know me -- always thinking there's a workaround of some type :)

[Mike Martin]

Originally posted by spokenward
Craig (and probably Mike) -


I would have every intention of using a firewire i/o (especially a third generation device like DICE II) with a laptop and an external firewire drive just on general cranky principles. Is it a bottleneck? Is it a new driver issue? Is it overcaution or weaseling? Can we get a clarification of this?

Pat

Pat,
I'm using Konnekt with a Glyph drive attached without problems. From a support standpoint its difficult to guarantee that ALL drives would work but it would vary from device to device.

-Mike Martin
TC|US

[Anderton]

<<I would have every intention of using a firewire i/o (especially a third generation device like DICE II) with a laptop and an external firewire drive just on general cranky principles. Is it a bottleneck? Is it a new driver issue? Is it overcaution or weaseling? Can we get a clarification of this?>>

I believe this is standard operating procedure for all FireWire devices, not just Konnekt. For example, I noticed that if I tried to pull video off my Firewire camcorder while a Firewire interface was connected, I'd get dropped frames unless I bumped the Capture app to high priority using the task manager.

Also, I believe that Firewire buses are inherently kinda noisy. Based on cranking up the mic pres in the Konnekt I get the impression TC has been pretty good about keeping noise out of the unit, but I would assume that data transfers to a hard drive would put just that much more "stuff" on the Firewire line.

This is speculation, though, maybe Mike has the real story.

[spokenward]

Originally posted by Mike Martin
Pat,
I'm using Konnekt with a Glyph drive attached without problems. From a support standpoint its difficult to guarantee that ALL drives would work but it would vary from device to device.

-Mike Martin
TC|US

thanks! That's good to hear. Adding another firewire via pcmcia or ExpressCard is probably just as likely to raise bus or irq demons.

All my externals are Oxford911 devices which are pretty well-behaved. Is there a preference for Texas Instruments or Via internals?

[Anderton]

I'll defer to the experts, but I've always had good luck with the TI chipsets.

[Mike Martin]

Originally posted by Anderton
Also, I believe that Firewire buses are inherently kinda noisy. Based on cranking up the mic pres in the Konnekt I get the impression TC has been pretty good about keeping noise out of the unit, but I would assume that data transfers to a hard drive would put just that much more "stuff" on the Firewire line.

This is speculation, though, maybe Mike has the real story.

Craig,
The firewire buss and powersupply are galvanicly isolated this is not the case with many firewire interfaces that we looked at. This isolation prevents noise from the computer from entering the audio stream. From what I understand (I'll ask for clarification) this also helps prevent jitter and other distortion too.

[Anderton]

Okay, so it's not just my imagination...there's an actual reason why it sounds clean. Thanks for the reply.

[Cmusicmaker]

Hi guys,

I have been tracking the Konnekt for ages. I was just waiting for a good review to show up first. Thanks for the Pro review idea.:thu: Some questions for Craig and TC...

1.Quality of ASIO drivers at low latencies. Please state which host you used for this test. How low can you go before clicks and pops?

2.Any WDM drivers? Any good?

3.How would you describe the sound quality compared to the 1820M? As an example the 1820M has about 120db of dynamic range while the Konnekt 24D has 109db or so, or has this changed?

4.I might not buy the Konnekt 24D, so is the Konnekt 8 the exact same hardware as the Konnekt 24D? Put another way, does the Konnekt 8 have the same dynamic range as the Konnekt 24D?

4a.If there are differences in the hardware (not just inputs or outputs) what are they?

5.How long is the Firewire cable? The longer the better sorry I just have to ask :)

6. Jitter levels? A recent review I read described the Saffire LE (105db dynamic range) as having a better or more focused sound than the 1820M (120db dynamic range). All subjective I know, but the reviewer thought that the reason was because of the low or *lower* level of jitter in the Saffire Le <250 picoseconds.

What sort of Jitter levels does the Konnekt 8 have? Less than the Safirre Le?

7. Any plans to allow the 24D plugs to run in a similar way to other VST plugs i.e as many as a CPU can take? The current limited options rule out a 24D purchase for me but a Konnekt 8 purchase is very likely.

8. How easy is it to change buffer settings from within the Konnekt's user / software interface?

9. Is their a really comprehensive comparison chart I can look at for the Konnekt 8 and 24D versions?

Before you ask, yes I do like to make absolutely sure my purchases are what they claim to be :D:D

If I have any more questions I'll let you know...:D

Thanks:)

[spokenward]

well, that's a pretty long list. Might as well throw another log on the fire...

Do you have any comments on the headphone outputs and live monitoring facilities?

[Alndln2]

Originally posted by Cmusicmaker

3.How would you describe the sound quality compared to the 1820M? As an example the 1820M has about 120db of dynamic range while the Konnekt 24D has 109db or so, or has this changed?

4.I might not buy the Konnekt 24D, so is the Konnekt 8 the exact same hardware as the Konnekt 24D? Put another way, does the Konnekt 8 have the same dynamic range as the Konnekt 24D?
My questions as well.

[Anderton]

I'll get to the questions I can answer in a bit, but want to make a general comment about drivers and such.

The latency you can achieve is a moving target. It depends on the processor speed, how much else you're asking the computer to do, and the sample rate (for a given amount of processor load, you'll have lower latencies at higher sample rates).

For example, I have an Athlon dual core system and typically get "comfortable" latencies in the 5 ms range. If the stars are in alignment, I can sometimes get down to 3 ms. But when I tested out a Core 2 Duo computer recently, getting 3 ms was easy, and under more difficult conditions (e.g., more tracks, more soft synths).

For the record, I'm using Sonar for these tests running a latency of 256 samples because that's the default. I'll push it later on and report back on what happens.

[Mike Martin]

I'll let Craig answer most of these since you're asking for an opinion but I'll take on a few of them.

Originally posted by Cmusicmaker
Hi guys,

I have been tracking the Konnekt for ages. I was just waiting for a good review to show up first. Thanks for the Pro review idea.:thu: Some questions for Craig and TC...

4.I might not buy the Konnekt 24D, so is the Konnekt 8 the exact same hardware as the Konnekt 24D? Put another way, does the Konnekt 8 have the same dynamic range as the Konnekt 24D?

4a.If there are differences in the hardware (not just inputs or outputs) what are they?

4. Dynamic range and specs are the same. The I/O configuration and the lack of DSP are the only differences.

4a. None, just I/O and DSP


5.How long is the Firewire cable? The longer the better sorry I just have to ask :)

I believe 5 feet. Craig do you have a measuring tape handy?


6. Jitter levels? A recent review I read described the Saffire LE (105db dynamic range) as having a better or more focused sound than the 1820M (120db dynamic range). All subjective I know, but the reviewer thought that the reason was because of the low or *lower* level of jitter in the Saffire Le <250 picoseconds.

What sort of Jitter levels does the Konnekt 8 have? Less than the Safirre Le?

Here are the specs from the Konnekt 8 page on the TC website (specs for the 24D are indentical)

Jitter Rejection Engine 43 to 193 kHz, jitter rejection at all rates
Jitter Rejection Filter JET™ technology in TC DICE II
DIO Interface Jitter < -3 dB @ 10 Hz, < -100 dB @ 600 Hz
AD/DA Conversion Jitter < 1 ns peak, BW: 700 Hz to 100 kHz

I'll see if our engineers have anything more to offer here.

7. Any plans to allow the 24D plugs to run in a similar way to other VST plugs i.e as many as a CPU can take? The current limited options rule out a 24D purchase for me but a Konnekt 8 purchase is very likely.

No. Unlike the PowerCore which has what I'd call dynamic DSP, the DSP in Konnekt 24D is fixed to do these specific effects.

[b]9. Is their a really comprehensive comparison chart I can look at for the Konnekt 8 and 24D versions?b]

I'll try to put something together for you. :)

-Mike Martin
TC|US

[Anderton]

Some comments on the 1820m and Konnekt 24D preamp specs: The 120dB quoted for the 1820m is for the line inputs, A-weighted. The equivalent spec for the Konnekt 24D is >111dB, also A-weighted. I don't consider that to be a serious difference, as other system factors (noise floor etc.) will degrade the dynamic range far more.

As to the mic pres, with both at minimum gain and A-weighted, the 1820m spec is >100dB and the Konnekt 24D, >109 dB. Although the Konnekt 24D has a bit of an edge, again, I don't consider this to be a huge difference.

As to the comparative sonic differences of the preamps, I already commented on that previously and included a graphic showing the difference. To summarize, the sound is very similar; the 1820m had a bit more midrange, but I think that's likely due to a different input impedance interacting with the dynamic mic. I couldn't hear any significant difference with a condenser.

I really do believe that technology has reached a point where within a given price range, mic pre quality is roughly equivalent, with slight quantitative rather than qualitative differences. Some pres might have a slightly different "character," but whether one "character" is better than another is a pretty subjective call that depends on what you're recording.

[JazzyYogi]

Hi,

I'm new to this forum so first let me thank you for your excellent work Craig!

I'm very interested in buying this Konnekt interface and here are my questions:

1) Heating issues: I'm not really afraid of that but as the it will be my primary PC audio interface, could you (Mike) confirm me that it will not be a problem to have the Konnekt on about 24 hours/day (yeah, I rarely shutdown my computer...)?

2) Latency: Ok, the question was just asked and Craig answered it but here is another variation on the subject ;-)
I will mainly use the interface to record direct guitars with software amp sims so low latency is very important for me. i have no experience workin with a DAW and soft sims so I have no idea of the minimum latency required in order to work comfortably... Is the default 256 samples (6ms) ok for that kind of use or do I need to go lower than that?

I also have to tell you that my pc is based on a Athlon64 X2 4200+ and NForce4 MB (Asus A8N SLI Premium). I heard lots of horror stories about the NForce4 chipset for DAW's (issues with PCIE/PCI bridge) so maybe Mike may confirm me that the interface was tested with this chipset? I was planning to buy a PCIE Firewire card to avoid the PCIE/PCI bridge bottleneck to obtain better performance but I really don't know if it may achieve the desired results. Any thoughts on that?

3) Operating levels:
-is it possible to switch between -10Db/+4Db levels in order to connect to consumer as well as pro equipment?

- balanced/unbalanced I/O: in relation with the -10/+4 question, may I use unbalanced cables with those I/O's? I plan to use the main 1/2 output to connect the interface to my Hi-Fi amp/speakers so I need to be able to use unbalanced cables and (if I'm not mistaken) -10Db output levels.

4) Inputs 3/4: are they always in stereo mode or can I use 2 mono instruments on those inputs?

5) Fabrik C: having a good comp/limiter available on 1/2 inputs is nice but as those effects are after the A/D conversion, is it really useful in direct recording? Ok, I'm a noob so sorry for this obvious question but as I understand it, I will not be able to limit the entering signal before the AD conversion to avoid digital distortion if pushing the signal coming from my guitar. In fact, I plan to buy in the future a tube preamp (probably a Brick by GT) to color the guitar sound and it would be nice to sometimes push the preamp as far as possible and prevent the Konnekt inputs from being overloaded... So may I use the FabrikC for that or do I have to have an external comp/limiter? Hmm, maybe I'm not clear on that one so let me know...

6) Plugins: Mike, you just answered a question about the non-dynamic dsp plugs but does TC plan to provide Konnekt24 users with more native compatible plugins (like the Assimilator) in the future?


Well, that's a lot of questions for you guys, so put another log on the fire and have fun ;-)

Thanks in advance for your answers and sorry for my bad english!

Francois

[Anderton]

1.Quality of ASIO drivers at low latencies. Please state which host you used for this test. How low can you go before clicks and pops?

To "even the playing field," I opened up new projects with no other tracks or plug-ins. The following are the lowest latencies I could achieve with reliable results:

Cubase 4: 128 samples
Ableton Live 5.0.3: 128 samples
Acid Pro 6.0: 128 samples
Tracktion: 64 samples
Guitar Rig 2 (stand-alone mode): 128 samples
Sonar (ASIO): 256 samples
Sonar (WDM): 256 samples

As mentioned previously, this is all very system/project dependent.

2.Any WDM drivers? Any good?

See above. At least with Sonar, performance seemed equal to the ASIO drivers.

3.How would you describe the sound quality compared to the 1820M? As an example the 1820M has about 120db of dynamic range while the Konnekt 24D has 109db or so, or has this changed?

Please see previous posts, the figures you cited are not really for equivalent tests.

4.I might not buy the Konnekt 24D, so is the Konnekt 8 the exact same hardware as the Konnekt 24D? Put another way, does the Konnekt 8 have the same dynamic range as the Konnekt 24D?

4a.If there are differences in the hardware (not just inputs or outputs) what are they?

Mike answered these questions.

5.How long is the Firewire cable? The longer the better sorry I just have to ask

It is 6 feet long (not five).

6. Jitter levels? A recent review I read described the Saffire LE (105db dynamic range) as having a better or more focused sound than the 1820M (120db dynamic range). All subjective I know, but the reviewer thought that the reason was because of the low or *lower* level of jitter in the Saffire Le <250 picoseconds.

What sort of Jitter levels does the Konnekt 8 have? Less than the Safirre Le?

I don't have a Saffire LE here, nor do I have the facilities to measure jitter...sorry! Hopefully Mike's information helped.

7. Any plans to allow the 24D plugs to run in a similar way to other VST plugs i.e as many as a CPU can take? The current limited options rule out a 24D purchase for me but a Konnekt 8 purchase is very likely.

Mike answered this.

8. How easy is it to change buffer settings from within the Konnekt's user / software interface?

Very easy. You just go to the System Settings screen (posted earlier) and select the buffer size from a drop-down menu. Whether the host program recognizes the change, or has to be re-started, is not the Konnekt's responsibility.

[Anderton]

1) Heating issues: I'm not really afraid of that but as the it will be my primary PC audio interface, could you (Mike) confirm me that it will not be a problem to have the Konnekt on about 24 hours/day (yeah, I rarely shutdown my computer...)?

I'm not really sure that heat is an issue. Mike seems to think it gets hot, but maybe I'm just not working it hard enough because it's just barely warm right now, and it's been on for about five hours. I'd say the heat thing is a non-issue. I think whoever reported it getting so hot should borrow another unit from where he got the first one and see if the second one gets equally hot, enough heat to cook eggs sounds defective to me.

2a) Latency: Ok, the question was just asked and Craig answered it but here is another variation on the subject ;-)
I will mainly use the interface to record direct guitars with software amp sims so low latency is very important for me. i have no experience workin with a DAW and soft sims so I have no idea of the minimum latency required in order to work comfortably... Is the default 256 samples (6ms) ok for that kind of use or do I need to go lower than that?

I can tolereate 256 samples, but I find 128 ms to be much more comfortable for playing in real time.

2b) I also have to tell you that my pc is based on a Athlon64 X2 4200+ and NForce4 MB (Asus A8N SLI Premium). I heard lots of horror stories about the NForce4 chipset for DAW's (issues with PCIE/PCI bridge) so maybe Mike may confirm me that the interface was tested with this chipset? I was planning to buy a PCIE Firewire card to avoid the PCIE/PCI bridge bottleneck to obtain better performance but I really don't know if it may achieve the desired results. Any thoughts on that?

I don't know the answer to that, sorry.

3a) Operating levels:
-is it possible to switch between -10Db/+4Db levels in order to connect to consumer as well as pro equipment?

No, but the maximum input level for the line connectors is +13dBu, and +10dBu for the mic'instrument input with the pad activated.

3b) - balanced/unbalanced I/O: in relation with the -10/+4 question, may I use unbalanced cables with those I/O's? I plan to use the main 1/2 output to connect the interface to my Hi-Fi amp/speakers so I need to be able to use unbalanced cables and (if I'm not mistaken) -10Db output levels.

I'm using unbalanced cables with the inputs, and the output uses a ground sending design so presumably you can use unbalanced cables with the outs as well.

4) Inputs 3/4: are they always in stereo mode or can I use 2 mono instruments on those inputs?

You can use two mono instruments, but they are ganged together under one level control and one balance control. One mono instrument is the right of a stereo pair, the other the left of the stereo pair and there is no way I can see to turn the stereo into independent dual mono channels.

5) Fabrik C: having a good comp/limiter available on 1/2 inputs is nice but as those effects are after the A/D conversion, is it really useful in direct recording? Ok, I'm a noob so sorry for this obvious question but as I understand it, I will not be able to limit the entering signal before the AD conversion to avoid digital distortion if pushing the signal coming from my guitar. In fact, I plan to buy in the future a tube preamp (probably a Brick by GT) to color the guitar sound and it would be nice to sometimes push the preamp as far as possible and prevent the Konnekt inputs from being overloaded... So may I use the FabrikC for that or do I have to have an external comp/limiter? Hmm, maybe I'm not clear on that one so let me know...

You are correct that effects after conversion cannot prevent overloads to the converters, but that's the only significant limitation of using post A/D conversion effects. Compression, EQ, and reverb will all work pretty much the same before or after. But also realize that these days, the dynamic range and signal to noise ratio of input stages are pretty good -- it's not necessary to hit them as hard as in "the old days." In fact, many recordists using 24-bit systems treat -6 as 0 to gain some "headroom insurance."

6) Plugins: Mike, you just answered a question about the non-dynamic dsp plugs but does TC plan to provide Konnekt24 users with more native compatible plugins (like the Assimilator) in the future?

That's a Mike question :)

C'est tout pour maintenant!

[Mike Martin]

[QUOTE]1) Heating issues: I'm not really afraid of that but as the it will be my primary PC audio interface, could you (Mike) confirm me that it will not be a problem to have the Konnekt on about 24 hours/day (yeah, I rarely shutdown my computer...)?

Mine at home on my desktop is one 24 hours a day, I'm running it buss powered and I rarely shut off my computer.

2b) I also have to tell you that my pc is based on a Athlon64 X2 4200+ and NForce4 MB (Asus A8N SLI Premium). I heard lots of horror stories about the NForce4 chipset for DAW's (issues with PCIE/PCI bridge) so maybe Mike may confirm me that the interface was tested with this chipset? I was planning to buy a PCIE Firewire card to avoid the PCIE/PCI bridge bottleneck to obtain better performance but I really don't know if it may achieve the desired results. Any thoughts on that?

My personal desktop is a similar system. I have a X2 3800 on a MSI K8N Neo4 platinum. Its NForce4 based like yours. It works like a champ. This the system that I've used the Glyph drive attaches as well. I admit I haven't tried the Glyph with Konnekt on my laptop yet.

6) Plugins: Mike, you just answered a question about the non-dynamic dsp plugs but does TC plan to provide Konnekt24 users with more native compatible plugins (like the Assimilator) in the future?

Wow thats asking a lot. Fabrik C, Fabrik R and Assimilator total up to over $1000 retail (plus the price of a PowerCore). Pretty amazing value for an audio interface at this price.

[spokenward]

The Konnekt 24D has associated plugins, the Fabriks are integrated and the Assimilator is bundled. The thing I like best about firewire and USB interfaces is the ability to move them from machine to machine. What happens to the plugs? Are they installed and registered on only one machine? How does the licensing work?

[JazzyYogi]

Craig and Mike, thanks a lot for your answers!

Originally posted by Anderton
2a) Latency: Ok, the question was just asked and Craig answered it but here is another variation on the subject ;-)
I will mainly use the interface to record direct guitars with software amp sims so low latency is very important for me. i have no experience workin with a DAW and soft sims so I have no idea of the minimum latency required in order to work comfortably... Is the default 256 samples (6ms) ok for that kind of use or do I need to go lower than that?
I can tolereate 256 samples, but I find 128 ms to be much more comfortable for playing in real time.
So it may be fine with , for example, GuitarRig in stand-alone, but may be a little less convenient with GuitarRig in Vst mode in a DAW app... I'll have to try!
Originally posted by Anderton
3a) Operating levels:
-is it possible to switch between -10Db/+4Db levels in order to connect to consumer as well as pro equipment?
No, but the maximum input level for the line connectors is +13dBu, and +10dBu for the mic'instrument input with the pad activated.
IMHO, it's a pitty we can't switch from -10Db/+4Db levels, as this product is not intended for pro's only!
Originally posted by Anderton
3b) - balanced/unbalanced I/O: in relation with the -10/+4 question, may I use unbalanced cables with those I/O's? I plan to use the main 1/2 output to connect the interface to my Hi-Fi amp/speakers so I need to be able to use unbalanced cables and (if I'm not mistaken) -10Db output levels.
I'm using unbalanced cables with the inputs, and the output uses a ground sending design so presumably you can use unbalanced cables with the outs as well.
Mike, could you confirm that we can use unbalanced connections for the outputs? In my case, as it is impossible to switch between -10Db/+4Db, it may be too "hot" to connect to my HiFi... Damn, I'll need to buy those fine studio monitors I was dreaming about for so long ;-)
Originally posted by Anderton
5) Fabrik C: having a good comp/limiter available on 1/2 inputs is nice but as those effects are after the A/D conversion, is it really useful in direct recording? Ok, I'm a noob so sorry for this obvious question but as I understand it, I will not be able to limit the entering signal before the AD conversion to avoid digital distortion if pushing the signal coming from my guitar. In fact, I plan to buy in the future a tube preamp (probably a Brick by GT) to color the guitar sound and it would be nice to sometimes push the preamp as far as possible and prevent the Konnekt inputs from being overloaded... So may I use the FabrikC for that or do I have to have an external comp/limiter? Hmm, maybe I'm not clear on that one so let me know...
You are correct that effects after conversion cannot prevent overloads to the converters, but that's the only significant limitation of using post A/D conversion effects. Compression, EQ, and reverb will all work pretty much the same before or after. But also realize that these days, the dynamic range and signal to noise ratio of input stages are pretty good -- it's not necessary to hit them as hard as in "the old days." In fact, many recordists using 24-bit systems treat -6 as 0 to gain some "headroom insurance."
In fact, I plan to record in 24-bit and will try to leave as much headroom as possible, at least 6Db, but I want to push the tube pre for the coloration (not push the Konnekt input stage...) so I guess that here too, a pad may be the solution... I agree that Comp, EQ will all work pretty much the same before or after AD conversion but maybe a Gate may be handy before the Reverb... Anyway, those included high quality effects are welcome and I'm sure they work great from the DAW!
Originally posted by Anderton
C'est tout pour maintenant!
C'est déjà pas si mal, merci à toi ;-)
Originally posted by Mike Martin
6) Plugins: Mike, you just answered a question about the non-dynamic dsp plugs but does TC plan to provide Konnekt24 users with more native compatible plugins (like the Assimilator) in the future?
Wow thats asking a lot. Fabrik C, Fabrik R and Assimilator total up to over $1000 retail (plus the price of a PowerCore). Pretty amazing value for an audio interface at this price. [/B]
You're right Mike, it sounds like a great deal but hey, it never hurts to ask for more ;-)

So far, the only limitation IMHO seems the missing ability to switch between -10Db and +4Db so I'm not yet decided on the purchase.

Thanks again for your answers guys, I really appreciate!
Cheers,
Francois

[Anderton]

So it may be fine with , for example, GuitarRig in stand-alone, but may be a little less convenient with GuitarRig in Vst mode in a DAW app... I'll have to try!

IMHO Konnekt won't be the limiting factor, it will be your processor speed. In other words, you wouldn't get significantly better results with a different interface.

It's a pitty we can't switch from -10Db/+4Db levels, as this product is not intended for pro's only!

It can accommodate lower level signals, just turn up the gain :)

In my case, as it is impossible to switch between -10Db/+4Db, it may be too "hot" to connect to my HiFi

Turn down the level in the applet.

C'est déjà pas si mal, merci à toi

De rien, mon ami!

[Mike Martin]

Originally posted by spokenward
The Konnekt 24D has associated plugins, the Fabriks are integrated and the Assimilator is bundled. The thing I like best about firewire and USB interfaces is the ability to move them from machine to machine. What happens to the plugs? Are they installed and registered on only one machine? How does the licensing work?

Fabrik C and Fabrik R are physically in the Konnekt 24D itself, much like external effects units. These will always be available when your Konnekt is in use and even when your Konnekt i24D s away from the computer in stand alone mode.

Assimilator runs natively, using the computer's CPU. In this case however Konnekt 24D functions as a dongle.

There is no limit to how many computers you want to use the Fabrik's and Assimilator with but Konnekt 24D is required to use all of them.

[Cmusicmaker]

Thanks Mike and Craig for the detailed answers to all of my questions!:D

Thanks for the offer to put together a comparison chart Mike.:thu:

[spokenward]

Originally posted by Mike Martin
Fabrik C and Fabrik R are physically in the Konnekt 24D itself, much like external effects units. These will always be available when your Konnekt is in use and even when your Konnekt i24D s away from the computer in stand alone mode.

Assimilator runs natively, using the computer's CPU. In this case however Konnekt 24D functions as a dongle.

There is no limit to how many computers you want to use the Fabrik's and Assimilator with but Konnekt 24D is required to use all of them.

That is a very sensible way of handling it. thanks.

[Mike Martin]

Here is a quick run down of the differences. All other features are identical.

Analog outputs
Konnekt 8 - 2
Konnekt 24D - 4

Digital I/O
Konnekt 8 - Coax S/PDIF
Konnekt 24D - Coax S/PDIF + ADAT Optical or Stereo Optical S/PDIF

DSP
Konnekt 8 - none
Konnekt 24D - Fabrik C/Fabrik R

Additional Software
Konnekt 8 - none
Konnekt 24D - Assimilator Konnekt

Simulataneous DAW Channels
Konnekt 8 - 4/4
Konnekt 24D - 12/12

Mike Martin
TC|US

[Anderton]

In a previous post, I tested several programs with the Konnekt 24D, and was able to get reliable operation with 128 samples (and even 64 samples with Tracktion), but couldn't get Sonar 6 to work reliably with anything less than 256 samples.

This raised a few eyebrows on the Sonar forum, so I did some extra testing. I tested Sonar 6 with the Creamware SCOPE interface and got reliable operation over ASIO at 3 milliseconds, and with the E-Mu 1820m ASIO at 4 milliseconds This was a somewhat more complex testing environment that the other tests, as it had a few drum tracks and an AmpliTube2 plug-in.

Therefore, it seems the Sonar latency issue is related to the driver in the Konnekt 24D. Scott from ADK pointed out that RME ended up having to do some driver tweaks for Sonar; I seem to recall someone at Creamware saying basically the same thing.

This may be one of those "1.0" deals. For example, it took a few revs before the 1820m drivers were rock solid with Sonar. But I don't know if this is something in the Konnekt 24D, or in the way it interacts with my machine.

[Mike Martin]

Craig,
I don't have Sonar here to compare at the moment. Let me see what I can do about that. ;)

[Anderton]

Thanks Mike!

[Anderton]

I think we've pretty much nailed the I/O and sync, but before getting into the DSP software, it's worth noting this is one of the few interfaces that is designed to work well as a stand-alone device, without the computer being on or even having to use the mixer applet. (Of course, you'll need to use the enclosed power supply to provide power to the K24D.)

This will also help explain the semi-circular array of red dots in Mike Martin's avatar :). Click on the attachment to see how this works. The source level control is indeed a hardware level control, but how do you know which source it's controlling, and the associated level? The Ch. Select button toggles among ch1, ch2, inputs 3/4, and user, which consists of user-definable functions (we'll get into this later). This is the source controlled by the level. As the Level control is a continuous controller, a ring of LEDs light around its rim and this corresponds to the level.

But there's more: Push the knob, and it controls pan for the selected source. Then leave the knob alone for a second, and it reverts back to being a volume control.

If have the mixer applet visible, you can see the fader change as you move this control. But it stand-alone mode, it makes it easy to see the relative volume of each channel.

[Anderton]

Another interesting feature is that when using the applet, clicking on a control with a little ringed knob icon allows the front panel level control to monitor the level. (Click on the attachment; these assignable parameters are circled in yellow, except that the one circled in red is the currently selected parameter.

So, for example, if you wanted to see the level of an ADAT channel pair, you'd click on the little knob icon and you'd be able to adjust this, and see it, from the front panel. In a way, this makes the interface into a bit of a remote control. For example, suppose you're playing guitar several feet away from your computer because you don't want to pick up noise. With the 6' FireWire cable, you could have interface several feet away from the computer, and use the front panel knob to set the guitar gain.

[Anderton]

The User option can control different parameters, depending on how the K24D is configured. You choose what parameter the user switch position controls in the applet, on the Setup page, with a drop-down menu. Click on the attachment to see the choices for the K24D I'm using.

[Anderton]

So why is stand-alone mode useful? Well, TC probably had loftier apps in mind :) but I like being able to run the optical SPDIF from my CD player into the digital in, and take advantage of the higher-quality D/A converters (and headphone) that the K24D offers compared to my circa late 80s CD player. It also makes a good headphone amp for practicing guitar, especially with a little compression, EQ, and reverb. And while I didn't try this as an application, it seems to me this would be a convenient little mixer for a solo act: Stick a mic in one input, guitar through a POD or whatever into another input, and a backup medium (CD, MD, etc.) into the line ins.

This could also work well for my live act in conjunction with a laptop, as it can handle guitar, voice, and has the necessary MIDI connections for my Peavey PC-1600 hardware controller...as well as hardware processing for the guitar and voice, so I wouldn't have to use plug-ins. I'll probably still stick with the PreSonus Firebox because it's considerably smaller, but if I need the extra DSP or don't want to deal with the FireBox's breakout cable to handle MIDI, then the Konnekt 24D would be ideal.

[Anderton]

There's one other difference between the Konnekt 8 and K24D that's admittedly minor -- but hey, this is a Pro Review so I don't have to worry about running out of page space! The front panel DSP select button in the K24D is replaced by an AUX in monitor button on the Konnekt 8. When pressed in, this monitors the rear panel AUX inputs.

[Fredsa]

Hi and thanks for the great review, I recently sold my 01V and switched to a laptop, so I am considering the MOTU Traveller and the Konnekt 24, I also have a TL-audio 5051 valve strip...

My questions is about syncing the digital input, since there is no clock sync on the Konnekt doe that mean the Motu would be more relible as far as the syncing goes (I had problem syncing to adat between my 01V and my EMU 1212 through lite pipe, the spdif worked better!)


ALso am I losing quality by using the Konnekt preamps compared to the 5051? How do the MOTU Traveller and the Konnekt pres match up (apart from having 4 on the MOTU)?


finally is the Fabrik Reverb on pair with better software reverebs asuch as Waves Convolution reverbs ?


Thanks

[Anderton]

My questions is about syncing the digital input, since there is no clock sync on the Konnekt doe that mean the Motu would be more relible as far as the syncing goes (I had problem syncing to adat between my 01V and my EMU 1212 through lite pipe, the spdif worked better!)

I assume by clock sync you mean word clock. You can of course sync to the K24D via ADAT, optical SPDIF, or coax SPDIF. But I've always had good luck doing ADAT sync.

ALso am I losing quality by using the Konnekt preamps compared to the 5051?

Well, the Konnekt preamps are designed to be clean and accurate. Anything with a tube is going to have a different character. In a way, this would be an advantage to you as you could patch the 5051 into the line ins when you want a tube sound, and use the Konnekt pres when you want a "neutral" sound.

How do the MOTU Traveller and the Konnekt pres match up (apart from having 4 on the MOTU)?

I have not had the opportunity to test the MOTU Traveller, sorry...

finally is the Fabrik Reverb on pair with better software reverebs asuch as Waves Convolution reverbs ?

I'll be testing the DSP next. However, as with the preamp question, it's a little "apples and orange": I do not believe Fabrik is a convolution-based reverb, but synthesis-based. So it's kind of like asking if a Waldorf synth is on a par with an Akai sampler; they're different technologies, with different characters. A more accurate comparison would be to something like a Lexicon hardware reverb or something like the IK CSR reverbs.

[otave]

thanks for your great review so far.

I've seriously considered to get Konnket 24D
from the first time I heard about this unit.

will keep watching this review, probably asking some questions sometimes.

keep doing great work!




KJ, Korea



PS, I read many post comparing Konnket to Saffire in a few forum during my research. It seems like those units are most decent (firewire) audio interface in the market on this price range. So I believe it will be very helpful for many people if you can tell us some pros and cons or any differences in comparing two units (even if you already said you didn't have Saffire with you)

cheers,

[Anderton]

Welcome, Korea! Feel free to ask any questions you want.

I apologize for not having a Saffire. Hopefully other people who do can give their opinion of the unit.

I do believe, though, that these days the quality of the commodity items (converters, preamps, etc.) are pretty much the same for all preamps. Where the differences occur are in the software drivers, things like circuit board layout and shielding (something analog designers know about, but maybe not some digital engineers), and most importantly, the functionality - what functions the company thinks are important, and how they're implemented.

[ribot]

Hi,

I purchased the Konnekt 24D two weeks ago (Germany, Hanover).
Testing (advice from tc support!!??) 3 different firewire pci cards
TI chip (did not work, stuttering!!, chip was recommended by TC support!!??),
NEC chip (worked the best!!!, "culprit" said TC Support),
VIA (buggy, sound disappears after some minutes, was recommended by TC), yes I changed pci slots for every card, there were no additional pci cards attached.

Trying/using three different PCs a msi pentium 4, 3GHz an ASROCK Athlon Sempron (2800) and a brand new ASUS duo core 2 (onboard firewire) with the latest updates and firmware the Konnekt 24 (new firmware and driver) did not perform fast enough for guitar playing with guitar rig.

Using a buffer of 128 (64 did not work) I only get (every system!!!) 11ms (probably more overall latency); there is quite an annoying delay!!!

Other firewire interfaces are noticeably faster and ok/sufficent "direct" with guitar rig (RME, even Terratec!!!). The Konnekt interface sounds incredible, superior (dsp!!!) but seems (at least drivers) not good enough (there are certain bugs) for this and fast applications!

Also I could not use the konnekt with an apple quad with tiger (no!!! connection, spent 1 hour!). I will probably return the konnekt since it is a lame duck using beta drivers!
What a pity!
And yes I contacted the tc support three times (very fast) but not helpful!

"Beta Tester" Kai
:mad:
Why not telling the truth? Our drivers are not ready/too slow yet but we had to launch our product before xmas!

[Cmusicmaker]

I trust you guys at TC will look into any initial issues with the Konnekt (these things can happen) so you might want to talk to Ableton about this one if you are not aware of this already...

http://www.ableton.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=50746

[Anderton]

I read the comments on the Live forum. I haven't tried the Konnekt with Live 6, just 5.0.3, and got reliable recording with 128 samples. Here's what I found were the lowest number of samples I could use with various programs and the Konnekt 24D, this is "reprinted" from a few pages back:

Cubase 4: 128 samples
Ableton Live 5.0.3: 128 samples
Acid Pro 6.0: 128 samples
Tracktion: 64 samples
Guitar Rig 2 (stand-alone mode): 128 samples
Sonar (ASIO): 256 samples
Sonar (WDM): 256 samples

The only program that seemed not to get along with the existing drivers is Sonar, as I can get 128 samples with other interfaces.

I'm wondering if the "stuttering" and other problems are sync-related, not FireWire. The Konnekt 24D software is a bit confusing as there are sync settings on two different pages. I mentioned this earlier in the thread as well. Also, there is new software on the TC web site. I never used the original software, I started off directly with the new software so I don't know if the original software had problems.

The FireWire card I'm using is a TI chipset. It's a card I bought from Circuit City in 2000 for about $50, so it's not a top of the line model.

I have no idea why I was able to get the results given above and others have problems -- particularly Live, as it worked quite well (although I am disappointed with the results with Sonar). Maybe it's just my ADK computer, it makes software look good :)

[ribot]

By the way,

1. I am not interested in values (ms, buffer size, super new mint technology etc. ), and I am aware of the disadvantages of firewire and bill gates esoteric. But it is not ok to launch a product for 500 euro which is not tested and noticeably slower than a 5 year old pod 1 or terratec ewx 24/96!!! It does not make any sense to use such a device for real time vst recording and guitar playing!!! It feels simply shitty.

2. It is not ok to blame my system and hardware (firewire pci chips) when tc did not made their homework! I spent about 10 hours with 4 different systems (all with different quality hardware and optimized for recording) and three different pci firewire cards (50 euro) with the same lame result (even no sound with apple quad!!!).

An angry costumer!

Kai

P.S. I like denmark and other TC products a lot and do not want to support RME (i do not need 8 inputs) and Terratec (I bought their piece of junk EWS 64 XL, it never worked!!!!)

[Mike Martin]

Ribot,
First of all, I'm sorry for the troubles you're having. I'll do my best to help you from this end. Second, I don't think anyone here has blamed your system for anything either....but what you're describing is very ususual.

If you talked to TC Tech support they should have given you a case or incident #. Sent it to me in a PM, I can see what TC (Denmark) has to say about your specific issue.

I have one quick question about something that often gets overlooked. Have you tried another firewire cable?

We're also just a couple days from a new driver release that adds many cool new features and improvments.

-Mike Martin
TC|US

[ribot]

Thanks Mike, :thu:

I really appreciate your help!

Incident:061113-000035

Serial Number 8142387

My main problem is the latency, I cannot use guitar rig with about 19 ms overall latency! The device is working with the NEC based pci chip (some minor bugs).

The latency is the same with every pc system I tested!
It has nothing to do with the performance of the connected computer!!!

Ok, tomorrow I will use another firewire cable (I do not think this will improve things, I used two different cables)

Sincerely
Kai

Excerpt from the TC support answer:

"From the description of you setup I think that we can be fairly sure that a driver update will not fix the issue. The most likely culprit is the NEC chipset on your firewire card. These are notoriously bad when it comes to iso synchronous data transfer(such as the transfer performed by an audio interface).
I would suggest getting a Texas Instruments based chipset instead. These generally perform the best. I would advice you to stear clear of NEC(like the one you have) ALI, Agere, combined USB/FIWI, and PCI cards from Belkin.
If no TI based cards fit your needs VIA VT6306 usually does the job aswell.

Please try this and get back to us with the result."

[Cmusicmaker]

Originally posted by Anderton

I'm wondering if the "stuttering" and other problems are sync-related, not FireWire. The Konnekt 24D software is a bit confusing as there are sync settings on two different pages. I mentioned this earlier in the thread as well. Also, there is new software on the TC web site. I never used the original software, I started off directly with the new software so I don't know if the original software had problems.

The FireWire card I'm using is a TI chipset. It's a card I bought from Circuit City in 2000 for about $50, so it's not a top of the line model.

I have no idea why I was able to get the results given above and others have problems -- particularly Live, as it worked quite well (although I am disappointed with the results with Sonar). Maybe it's just my ADK computer, it makes software look good :) [/B]

Very interesting. Thanks for sharing that Craig. At least it *is* possible to get the Konnekt working with Live 5.:cool:


We're also just a couple days from a new driver release that adds many cool new features and improvments.

Perhaps that driver release will likely solve any initial issues. Nice to see a quick driver update Mike..:thu:

[Anderton]

Another thing worth emphasizing is that I do NOT think that Ribot's results are typical, but I also don't think it's his fault (e.g., chip set etc.). If there's one thing I've learned about computer-based systems, it's that one piece of conflicting software can totally screw up your system. For example, I found that my computer loaded two firewire applets from previously-installed interfaces on startup. When I eliminated those, my firewire performance improved dramatically. Why was there a problem? I have no idea!!

Like I have no idea about why sometimes my CD-ROM takes 10x as long to copy files over as it does the rest of the time...

[gmore]

I've been using a Saffire for 6 months, and recently test drove the 24D.
As far as sound quality and noise are concerned (condenser dry or with Channel FX), I could'nt pick a clear winner - both quite good to my ear. The added De-esser on the 24D and control made the TC much more versatile, and the TC's Reverb is in a different league.

Craig, I found my units 3/4 inputs to be a tad weak for my application (mid-grade keyboard outs), was curious as to your findings ?

[Anderton]

I've just been feeding in typical line level outs (e.g., from CD player, XM radio output when I recorded Armin Van Buuren's "State of Trance" program :), that sort of thing. I can check out some keys as well when I get back to it tomorrow.

[Anderton]

<<I've been using a Saffire for 6 months, and recently test drove the 24D.
As far as sound quality and noise are concerned (condenser dry or with Channel FX), I could'nt pick a clear winner - both quite good to my ear.>>

That sort of supports my theory that these days, within a particular price range, there aren't huge differences in quality among pieces of gear -- although there may be some quantitative differences.

[Mike Martin]

Originally posted by Anderton
So why is stand-alone mode useful? Well, TC probably had loftier apps in mind :) .....


Craig,
There are lots of applications. :)

One many people don't realize is that you could use Konnekt 24D as an effects processor for another system too. You could hook it up to another mixer's effects sends. You have control over reverb time and reverb mix (if neccessary) via the Light Ring.

Certainly for a small live performance it would work nicely without the need for any other mixer.

-Mike Martin
TC|US

[Mike Martin]

Originally posted by Anderton
......But there's more: Push the knob, and it controls pan for the selected source. Then leave the knob alone for a second, and it reverts back to being a volume control....

There is one other fun thing about the Light Ring assignment thats easy to miss. If your user assignment is the Master Fader, pushing the knob in functions has a handy DIM switch.

[Fredsa]

hi,
what about thoes dsp effects? :-)

[Levitator]

Thanks very much for doing this review!

Questions:

1. Let’s say, If I want to use my outboard preamps feeding the line ins of 24D can I still use the 24D’s FX section with zero latency (in live shows)

2. How would you compare the AD/DA to some other high end audio cards such as LynxTWO (I have 5 of those cards)

3. How would you compare the reverb FX of 24d to CSR?

4. Are there any plans to include any delay plug ?

Also, while we are talking about TC product can somebody tell me the shipping date for the stereo to 5.1 up converter (power core)

Thanks again

[Mike Martin]

Originally posted by Levitator
Thanks very much for doing this review!

Questions:

1. Let’s say, If I want to use my outboard preamps feeding the line ins of 24D can I still use the 24D’s FX section with zero latency (in live shows)

Yes. there are independent send levels for each input (analog and digital) to the Fabrik R reverb. The Fabrik C (channel strip) can only be used on inputs 1 and 2 (mic, line or Hi-Z)


4. Are there any plans to include any delay plug ?


No, not at this time.


Also, while we are talking about TC product can somebody tell me the shipping date for the stereo to 5.1 up converter (power core)


Here in the US, we just got a few pieces of Unwrap for Powercore in last week and are expecting more in by the end of the month.

Mike Martin
TC|US

PS - Your other questions are asking for an opinion. I'll let Craig or someone else answer that. ;)

[Fredsa]

since I only have one firewire port and the manual says the Konnekt should have its own firewire bus I wonder wether I still can "daisy" chain a firewire harddrive through the Konnekt's second firewire port.

[gmore]

I was able to daisy chain my Maxtor HD thru it, although I did have some lock-ups on certain back-up procedures. To be fair, I couldn't daisy the HD thru my Saffire without alot more issues, so I'm guessing it could have something to do with my Dell's firewire set-up - again the TC worked significantly better.

[Levitator]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Levitator
Thanks very much for doing this review!

Questions:

1. Let’s say, If I want to use my outboard preamps feeding the line ins of 24D can I still use the 24D’s FX section with zero latency (in live shows)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Yes. there are independent send levels for each input (analog and digital) to the Fabrik R reverb. The Fabrik C (channel strip) can only be used on inputs 1 and 2 (mic, line or Hi-Z)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



How easy is it to set this up in such a way that would allow me to monitor 24d inputs with FX and at the same time to record dry signal (assuming I’m using outboard pres)

Thanks

[Mike Martin]

Originally posted by Levitator


How easy is it to set this up in such a way that would allow me to monitor 24d inputs with FX and at the same time to record dry signal (assuming I’m using outboard pres)

Thanks

I'm sure Craig will be getting to this soon, but the flexibility of the effects is one of the things that makes Konnekt 24D so unique.

Each input has its own send level to the Fabrik R (reverb) which of course you can monitor in real time. In your DAW, you have the flexibility to choose to record the dry unprocessed signal or the processed signal.

Here is the list of inputs as they'll appear in your DAW:

1 Mic inst / line 1
2 Mic inst / line 2
3 Line 3
4 Line 4
5 Fabrik Channel L
6 Fabrik Channel R
7 Fabrik Reverb L
8 Fabrik Reverb R
9 ADAT 1 / optical L
10 ADAT 2 / optical R
11 ADAT 3
12 ADAT 4
13 ADAT 5
14 ADAT 6
15 ADAT 7 / Coaxial L
16 ADAT 8 / Coaxial R

So if you want to record dry, choose the mic/line input that you want. If you want to record the processed signal choose the Fabrik inputs 5-8.

Hope this helps,

-Mike Martin
TC|US

[Anderton]

<<I'm sure Craig will be getting to this soon, but the flexibility of the effects is one of the things that makes Konnekt 24D so unique.>>

Indeed, that's what's up next :)

But thanks for typing out the list so I don't have to!

[Fredsa]

Mike, I went to my local shop and they were saying that I could use the effects on the Konnekt as a normal VST, that is not what I have read.though..you need at some point to record the Reverb or the Fabrik's signal back into the DAW, am I right? I mean yoyu cannot automatize that inot a mix and bounce the whole thing?

[shawn fin]

Hey Craig. I've read your material for years and found it quite helpful.

First, I was wondering if the 24D DSP effects worked as bus sends in Acid 6. When I assign the reverb or channel strip to a bus in Acid 4, I hear a blip of noise and then it goes silent. Have you tried assigning the effects to busses in Acid 6?

Second, it seems pretty easy to overload the preamps when just connecting a cndsr mic. When using my Voicemaster Pro, I really have to crank the input to clip; whereas, I begin to overload the pres on the 24D when the gain is at much lower levels. Any thoughts?

Lastly, can I safely connect outboard preamps to the rear line inputs on channels one and two so that I can use the compression while recording? I notice the preamps light up on the front and I wondered if I was coloring the signal or at risk of damaging something.

[Anderton]

Let’s look at the Fabrik R reverb. We’ll get to the interface and sound, but first, we'll talk about connections as there are quite a few options.

The most basic connection uses the Fabrik R internally within the K24D, where any input can send some signal to it via a send control in the mixer applet; that’s straightforward enough, as long as you remember that in the Setup menu, Fabrik R routing has to be set to Internal Mode.

Click on the attachment to see the applet in action. A mic is sending a vocal into input 1; its send control (circled in red) is sending some of this signal to the Fabrik reverb input bus. The part that’s circled in green is the “Fabrik” section of the mixer. The top rectangle shows metering – handy for knowing if there’s actually signal get into and out of the processor – while the knob below it is currently set to reverb output level (it can also be set to decay time). Note the light ring knob toward the bottom; this means the parameter level/decay parameter can be controlled from the front panel.

And while we’re on the subject of sends, they can actually be routed to any available output, not just the Fabrik R. This allows setting up something like a separate monitor mix, or going through an external effects box (digital via S/PDIF, or analog via outs/ins 3+4).

One point that’s very important to remember about the routing is that the input of a track can monitor (and therefore record) the raw input, even while you’re monitoring through reverb. So vocalists, for example, can hear themselves with plenty of reverb but you’re not committed to recording the reverberated sound. This is true of the Fabrik C channel strip as well: You can EQ and compress until the vocalist hears exactly what they want, but record dry so you can add whatever EQ and compression you want during the mixdown process (or for that matter, record with compression and EQ if you like).

It probably goes without saying that for a solo performer situation, where you might have mic, guitar, and backup, you can have different amounts of reverb for each signal source…very convenient.

[Anderton]

I’m not embarrassed to admit that it took me a while to figure this all out. That’s because there are few “gotchas” you have to be careful to remember.

The first one is that in the applet Setup page, Fabrik R routing must be set to Computer S/R stereo if you want to do the send/receive thing. Fortunately, there’s some helpful visual feedback: The rectangle on the mixer that shows Fabrik R metering becomes a solid gray rectangle, so you know that the Fabrik R is busy elsewhere.

The second involves the applet Fabrik R page, where you will most likely want to enable the "Kill Dry" button so that you hear only the wet, reverberated sound. This is particularly important because of latency issues, which we'll touch on later.

The third centers around the host application. We’re used to doing send reverb effects where send some signal from the channel you want processed to an aux bus, then the aux bus dumps into the master. You adjust the aux bus output level to determine the level of the reverb.

The K24D does things differently. In this case, you still send some signal from the channel you want processed to an aux bus. But the aux bus then dumps not into the master, but into the input of the Fabrik R (if you remember from Mike Martin’s list of K24D inputs, the Fabrik R input is available the same way that any of the channel ins are available). Then, you need to set up a separate audio channel that listens to the output of the Fabrik R, as if you were monitoring any input channel (vocal, guitar, etc.) in real time. In other words, you need to enabel the "return" track's real-time monitoring option if you expect to hear the reverberated signal.

Let’s trace this through using Acid 6.0, as the question was raised on how to get Fabrik R to work with it as a send/receive effect. Click on the attachment to see what we’ll be describing; bear in mind that the same general principles apply to any host.

We’ll assume track 1 has a drum loop, and you want some of its signal to go to a send bus with the Fabrik R, and bring some of the processed output into Acid. Here’s the step-by-step.

1. Insert a bus in Acid; we’ll call it Bus A. Assign its output to the Konnekt Fabrik Reverb input.
2. Turn up the Bus A control in Track 1 to send some signal to the bus.
3. Insert an Audio track. We’ll call this Track 2.
4. Arm Track 2 for record.
5. Click on the monitor indicator to the immediate left of the Arm Record button, and go Input Monitor > On.
6. Click again on the monitor indicator to the immediate left of the Arm Record button, and select Input 4 (the Fabrik Reverb output). This is shown in detail in the screen shot.
7. Turn up Track 2’s volume for the desired amount of reverb signal.

If you’re really adventurous (and have your monitor speakers turned down!), you can turn up Track 2’s bus A control and get a little reverberation feedback action. Dangerous…but fun.

[ayc6]

Hi Craig, since I read in a previous thread that you are familiar with the E-mu 1616m, how do the 24D preamps and convertors' sound quality compare to the E-mu? I'd expect the TC effects to be better even if there aren't as many...

[Anderton]

I tested the Fabrik R and Fabrik C as send/receive effects in Sonar, Cubase, and Acid; they worked perfectly each time, once I figured out the "gotchas" listed above. However, the return signal is subject to the interface latency. With reverb, this isn't terribly important; basically, the latency provides "free pre-delay."

When I first tested the Fabrik R with Sonar, I was put off by what I thought were latency issues (remember, for whatever reason I can't get operation below 256 samples with Sonar) that caused obvious delays. However, this was due more to the patch that I selected having significant early reflections, which emphasized the time difference. Reducing the amount of early reflections solved the problem. In programs with 128 samples of latency, the latency with reverb wasn't an issue.

Using Fabrik C as a send/receive effect is a different situation, in that you really don't want to hear it play along with the original track because of the "slapback echo" effect caused by latency. It would be tempting to just say "Well hey, I have other compressors and EQs" and not worry about it, but you'd only say that if you hadn't worked with the Fabrik C -- as we'll see later on, it's a very tasty and versatile processor that can sound anywhere from natural to highly effected.

Furthermore, most of the time what you really want with a channel strip effect is to use it as an insert effect, not a send/return effect. So, I came up with a simple workaround that solved both issues. Send any signals to the Fabrik C pre-fader, and bring down the level of the original channel so you hear only the Fabrik C output. Once you have the sound the way you want, bounce the processed signal to another track, and shift it forward in time (line it up visually with the original, source track). Keep the source track muted or archived, or if you're sure you won't need it again, you can always just blast it away.

The bottom line is that while you can't use the Fabrik C as a true insert effect on host tracks, you can accomplish the same result with the workaround detailed above. [update: This is possible using the "External Effects" option in Cubase SX3 and Cubase 4 -- see Mike Martin's reply below]

[Anderton]

Mike, I went to my local shop and they were saying that I could use the effects on the Konnekt as a normal VST, that is not what I have read.though..you need at some point to record the Reverb or the Fabrik's signal back into the DAW, am I right? I mean you cannot automatize that inot a mix and bounce the whole thing?

Well I'm not Mike, but no, you cannot insert the K24D plugs as normal VST inserts. However, there is the workaround described above that works on a track-by-track basis if you want to create the end result of using insert effects.

Furthermore, it's not necessarily true that you need to record the Fabrik's signal back into the DAW. As pointed out above with the example of setting up Acid for send/receive processing with Fabrik R, you could have multiple tracks all dumping some signal into the send bus that goes to the Fabrik R input, and monitor the Fabrik R out just as if it was a plug-in. However, you can't do multiple instances (e.g., have two buses of reverb). Of course, you always can record the track in the DAW, but you don't have to.

[Anderton]

First, I was wondering if the 24D DSP effects worked as bus sends in Acid 6. When I assign the reverb or channel strip to a bus in Acid 4, I hear a blip of noise and then it goes silent. Have you tried assigning the effects to busses in Acid 6?

See above. If that doesn't work for you, let me know and we'll work through it further.

Second, it seems pretty easy to overload the preamps when just connecting a cndsr mic. When using my Voicemaster Pro, I really have to crank the input to clip; whereas, I begin to overload the pres on the 24D when the gain is at much lower levels. Any thoughts?

Does this happen even with the pad engaged?

Lastly, can I safely connect outboard preamps to the rear line inputs on channels one and two so that I can use the compression while recording? I notice the preamps light up on the front and I wondered if I was coloring the signal or at risk of damaging something.

I'm not sure I understand your question. Why not just use the preamps in the K24D? You can still use compression while recording. If you want to use "boutique" preamps or whatever that color the sound, just be careful not to blast the K24D ins with a zillion dB and things should be fine.

[Fredsa]

Thanks Craig, I see that you could monitor the reverb bus the way you described it, but at the mix down I should need to have the ourput of the reverb (killed dry) recorded as an audio track in the daw...right? and then treat it as a Reverb return chanell (I am using Cubaes SX).

[miziq]

Mike or Craig :)

is it possible to use Konnekt 24 d as a standalone digital converter. For example feeding the spdif with digital signal from dvd-cd player.

Also for example ipod xpress with airtunes. Will this combo work? It seems that airport xpress have digital (optical out) and konnekt also have adat(optical) in. Is this compatible?

Everything i mentioned above is for standalone application.

I guess konnekt do come with power adapter right?

Thanks in advance :)

[Mike Martin]

Originally posted by Fredsa
Thanks Craig, I see that you could monitor the reverb bus the way you described it, but at the mix down I should need to have the ourput of the reverb (killed dry) recorded as an audio track in the daw...right? and then treat it as a Reverb return chanell (I am using Cubaes SX).

Fredsa,
If you have Cubase SX 3, use the "External Effects" feature. It allows you to integrate Konnekt 24D's effects like a VST. The reverbs are recorded automatically at mixdown.

[Mike Martin]

Originally posted by miziq
Mike or Chris :)

is it possible to use Konnekt 24 d as a standalone digital converter. For example feeding the spdif with digital signal from dvd-cd player.

Also for example ipod xpress with airtunes. Will this combo work? It seems that airport xpress have digital (optical out) and konnekt also have adat(optical) in. Is this compatible?

Everything i mentioned above is for standalone application.

I guess konnekt do come with power adapter right?

Thanks in advance :)

Yes this will work fine and yes it comes with a power adapter.

[shawn fin]

Thanks for the routing advice! As for the preamps, allow me to reference the initial question and I'll try to be more exact this time.

Second, it seems pretty easy to overload the preamps when just connecting a cndsr mic. When using my Voicemaster Pro, I really have to crank the input to clip; whereas, I begin to overload the pres on the 24D when the gain is at much lower levels. Any thoughts?

Does this happen even with the pad engaged?

As a comparison, I can set the output of My Voicemaster to zero and give only a moderate amount of gain while getting a healthy recording level. On the 24D, I overload the preamps before reaching even zero db recording levels. Is it just a difference in what the preamps can handle? It makes me concerned that I won't be able to record really dynamic instruments, like drums, without overloading the preamps and still get equally healthy recording levels--especially with the pad engaged. With the pad engaged, I have to crank the gain to get good recording levels but run into the problem of overloading the pres again.

[Mike Martin]

Originally posted by Anderton


The bottom line is that while you can't use the Fabrik C as a true insert effect on host tracks, you can accomplish the same result with the workaround detailed above.

Craig,
This is perfectly possible in Cubase SX 3.0 and Cubase 4 with their "External Effects" feature.

[miziq]

Mike,

thank for quick reply. I'm buying it on saturday.

So at standalone mode i just connect dvd player via spdif and connect out 1 and out 2 to amp. Konnekt recognize this automaticly?

Will the volume knob work in this situation? Can i adjust volume ?

If i understand this coorect i can use also Konnekt as AD-converter and headphone amp right? Without any other connection or adjustments?

I have Rotel rd-1090 2 x 380 w power amp. Would like to use Konnekt as a multi purpose device. Well amp accept balanced inputs, but the same shape (neutrik) that are on the front face of 24D (xlr). How is the output hadleded on konnket and what kind of cables i need? Are those outs (female jacks) also balanced the same way as are normal xlr balanced connectors?

Thanks :)

[Mike Martin]

Miziq,
Your DVD player will be playing CD's or DVD audio? Konnekt will NOT decode a surround encoded singal.

Once you set up your digital ins, and direct monitoring is engaged it will work as you describe.

Outputs are 1/4", balanced or unbalanced.

[miziq]

Mike,

just stereo out of dvd-cd!

Thanks for all the info!

[Retro749]

First of all thanks for the great work with these reviews. Appreciated and helpful.

I am interested in pulling the trigger on the 24D ASAP...but I have to say the questions raised about the mic pre's apparent headroom issue for Shawn are a concern to me.

The few reviews I've read have all commented on how good the pres actually were for this price point.

????

[Anderton]

<<This is perfectly possible in Cubase SX 3.0 and Cubase 4 with their "External Effects" feature.>>

Good point. I knew this, but was locked into the "send/receive" mindset of trying to do the processing virtually. And it's also worth mentioning that Cubase can adjust for latency going through external effects -- a very cool feature.

But this also brings up something else I haven't mentioned: You can treat the 24D as a stand-alone effects processor just by using the ins and outs. For example, you could put it in the aux bus of a mixer.

[Anderton]

<<On the 24D, I overload the preamps before reaching even zero db recording levels. Is it just a difference in what the preamps can handle?>>

It sounds like you know what you're doing, so don't take this as insulting, but is the applet mixer gain-staged correctly? I have the opposite situation-- I have to be careful with levels, or I overload the host program's inputs.

[Anderton]

By the way, I will be getting into the reverb sound quality in detail later on, but I thought I should at least mention that my initial impressions are extremely favorable. Long tails don't have that "periodic" sound I find so annoying in some other reverb software.

[cambrook]

I'm interested in the Konnekt 8, but was reading somewhere that the output volume knob only controls the main outputs and not the headphone outputs. Is this the case, does the headphone volume have to be adjusted in software?

Thanks,

Cam

[shawn fin]

You needn't worry about insulting me:) The truth is, I don't know if I know how to set the applet mixer's gain-stage correctly (at least, I'm unsure of what you mean). Please explain... I have the output set to zero. The input level doesn't appear to be controllable within the software dialogue but only by the gain knob on the unit. "Headroom" does appear to be the concern. The preamps sound good; although, as I mentioned, they will clip when the gain is 1/3 of the way up. At this point, I am barely hitting zero db. Shouldn't I be able to crank the gain quite a bit beyond the 1/3 point before going into the red? I'm certainly not screaming into the mic. Furthermore, if I clap my hands before the mic, it will ocassionally clip at very low levels. Your experience with the unit resembles the one I have with my Voicemaster--that is, I can clip the recording levels much sooner than the preamp. Can I do something to change this or might it be the a signal processing flaw within my specific unit? I hope not. I like it very much. Maybe Mike has a thought as well.

[Anderton]

I'm interested in the Konnekt 8, but was reading somewhere that the output volume knob only controls the main outputs and not the headphone outputs. Is this the case, does the headphone volume have to be adjusted in software?

Well that's not quite right. There are two headphone jacks, muting and non-muting. When you plug a set of headphones into the muting jacks, the main outputs (1 and 2) are muted. When you plug headphones into the non-muting jack, the same signal appears at the headphones and the main outs.

However, I can't find any way to control the headphone amp independently from the main outs. The software monitor output level fader controls both phones and main outs, as does the front panel output level control. It would make more sense to me if the software fader controlled only the level going to the main outs, and the front panel output level control affected the level in the phones.

[Anderton]

About the mic dynamic range thing...if you push in the pad switch for channel 1, that restricts the level going to the channel 1 mic preamp; the front panel control will affect the channel 1 mic gain. Look at the channel 1 meter in the applet: You should be able to scream into the mic with the front panel control up halfway, and not come close to going into the red on the channel meter (my meter registers around -20dB). The applet channel 1 fader sets the post-preamp level going to the output and I believe it has nothing to do with preamp headroom. Channel 2 works similarly.

[cambrook]

Sorry to be dense about this - as you can tell I'm a newbie

If I use the headphones in the muting position does the volume knob change the H/P level?

Or do I have to use the non-muting position and not use the main outs?

Thanks again

[Anderton]

If I use the headphones in the muting position does the volume knob change the H/P level?

Yes. The output level control always affects headphone level, no matter what else is happening.

[Fredsa]

Thanks Craig ( and Mike!), thsi sounds more and more like a box ypou should own! I am eagerly waiting for your take on the Reverb...any ways I gather that if I am to use the effects in Cubase SX as external effects then the mixing will need to be done real time of course, If you have a chance can you tell me how well the delay compensation will work with both Reverb and Fabrik C?

[miziq]

One more thing that bewilders me?

Can fabrik and fabrik r be used simultaniusly? For example: can you use reverb and eq-compression at the same time on guitar or vocal, and hear-record the result?

I wonder too, how quiality is reverb comparing to other software or hardware reverbs?

[gmore]

Hello Craig, was curious if you've had a chance to test inputs 3/4.
My keyboards outs with its volume cranked (not ideal but...) can easily clip thru 1/2 (with modest settings), but barely moves the input meter thru 3/4 ?

[Yggdrasil]

I also found that the gain of the signal on rear panel inputs is quite low ...

[Anderton]

Can fabrik and fabrik r be used simultaniusly? For example: can you use reverb and eq-compression at the same time on guitar or vocal, and hear-record the result?

Yes, except that at higher sample rates (at 96kHz and probably 88.2kHz, I'm away from my music computer at the moment) you have to choose to use one or the other.

I wonder too, how quiality is reverb comparing to other software or hardware reverbs?

I'll be getting into that after I cover the interface, but so far I'm very impressed -- and I generally don't like digital reverbs :)

I'll answer the other questions when I'm back in the studio.

[Levitator]

Hi Craig,

If possible, I’d also like to hear some samples with the reverb from 24D with a basic description of presets that were used to process that sample

Thanks

[Anderton]

I will be posting some audio examples, but bear in mind that this BBS software currently limits me to about 7 seconds of stereo MP3 at 128kbps -- so it won't show off the fidelity very well. But you can still hear the character of the reverb, and given that it's impressive at 128kbps, you can imagine what it would be like at full fidelity.

[miziq]

Tommorow i'm going shopping.

So guys I'm i doing the right thing?

:)

[Anderton]

Well, I'm not up to the "conclusions" part yet, but...

On the plus side, it sounds really good. The preamps are clean and quiet, the Fabrik processors are superb added value, the instrument ins are of a suitably high impedance, and the clock is stable. You can use the effects as send/receive effects with hosts, as well as do things like have a vocalist monitor with reverb, but record the signal dry or wet.

It's also convenient that the ADAT optical input provides an expansion "back door" if you need more ins. I covered this in the DigiMAX FS Pro Review, as it makes a nice companion piece to the K24D. It can run independently of the computer, so it will work as a stand-alone processor, headphone amp, and monitor for devices with SPDIF outs (optical or coaxial). Besides, it's built well and looks cool :), and the price ($625 list) is certainly reasonable.

One other thing I've neglected to mention, but may be important to you, is that you can link up to four K24D units if you need more I/O or preamps. The only negative with that is you can't bus-power more than one unit at a time, but if you have four K24Ds hooked up, you're probably not sitting in the middle of the forest recording bird calls anyway.

My complaints are minimal so far, the main one being that the drivers don't seem to be very solid with Sonar. You can't use the effects as VST inserts in the traditional sense, except with Cubase SX3/4 (although I did describe a workaround above), nor can you insert the two Fabrik C channel strips in anything other than inputs 1 and 2 (although it will function as a send/receive effect, like Fabrik R). I've also had some problems playing back material with QuickTime 7 on Windows, but I believe that is likely a problem at Apple's end or with my particular system, because QT7 also "broke" the E-Mu 1820m, which had worked fine with previous versions of QT. I called E-Mu about this, and they said it was a known problem where they were awaiting information from Apple. Any other cons are more like minor "annoyances," e.g., the fact that you can't set the headphone monitor volume independently of the overall output level, or that there's not a huge amount of gain for inputs 3/4.

The one "con" that probably cannot be changed is that at 96kHz, you have to choose between running the Fabrik R or C -- you can't do both. I think that's likely due to DSP hardware limitations, because the Fabrik R can't sound as good as it does without crunching a lot of numbers. I'm not surprised that if you ask it to crunch those numbers twice as fast, that it maxes out what the DSP can do.

So if you can live with any limitations and take advantage of all the cool features the K24D offers, yes, you're indeed making the right decision. Also, based on TC's past performance, updates are likely that will add more functionality and/or improve driver performance. I think this interface is going to do well for them.

[Anderton]

First of all, this is no “lite” reverb. I first saw it at the Frankfurt Messe last year, where it was being demoed (if I recall correctly) as part of their big-bucks System 6000. It sounded fine, but what intrigued me more was the interface. Click on the attachment to see the interface.

Props to TC for trying to think outside of the box with a software interface, but additional props for actually pulling it off. Although I never was afraid of knobs and entering numbers in parameters, people who want a more “musical” interface than just entering numbers will find this a breath of fresh air.

There are four main algorithms (Live, Hall, Plate, and Club); you select the one you want by clicking on the associated button. In the screen shot, Fabrik Hall is selected. Then you have the “tweak” pane, and this is the innovative part. There are four draggable circles, each of which controls multiple parameters under one “master” control. For example, the screen shot shows the “color” parameter. As you drag the circle toward the “Hi-C” area, the highs are emphasized. Dragging it toward the “Lo-C” area emphasizes the lows. Dragging upward toward “Hi-F” determines the filter characteristics that affect the high frequency coloration.

What’s cool about this is you can just kind of drag the circle around until it sounds right. The settings of the three parameters under control of the circle are shown along the bottom, and if you’re more traditionally oriented, you can drag the numerical to change the value, or enter a value directly by typing it in.

The other parameters are:

“R” adjusts pre-delay and reverb decay time simultaneously. This is really obvious: Drag to the lower left corner, and there is no pre-delay and no decay time. Drag to the upper right, and you have the maximum setting for both (100ms pre-delay, 20 seconds decay time). Upper left is max pre-delay and minimum decay, lower right is min pre-delay and max decay. Any place in between these extremes produces a mix of the two.

“M” is a modulation parameter that controls two parameters, rate and depth.

“D” is the “distance/level” control that puts the dry, early reflections, and reverb mix parameters under one control.

[Anderton]

I wanted to do a few audio examples, so I fired up Sonar 6. But I’ve come to the conclusion that for whatever reason, the K24D just doesn’t get along with S6; I’m hoping the next Konnekt 24D driver update (or Sonar 6 update, for that matter) solves whatever the problem might be. The Konnekt 24D is useable with Sonar to some degree, but strange things happen and I just don’t have the time to deal with a situation where restarting the program is a common occurrence.

So I switched over to Cubase 4, and thought I’d try what Mike mentioned about using Fabrik R as if it was a VST effect. I went to the VST connections window, and under External FX, set up a send bus to the Fabrik R input and a return bus from the Fabrik R output (and remembered to set the K24D applet so the Fabrik R was in send/receive mode). Click on the attachment so see how the External FX section is set up.

Now, I’ve used the external FX feature in Cubase SX3 to feed external analog effects, but this was something new for me and wouldn’t you know, right there in the input channel, under Insert Effects, Fabrik R showed up on the menu. Cool! The coolness factor is mitigated by the fact that you can only do a true insert effect in one channel, but of course, you can always stick the Fabrik R in an FX channel and treat it as a send effect if you want to process multiple channels. Although I thought at first that I wasn't able to have the K24D applet open and tweak the sound while Cubase was playing back, that was only because "Release Driver when Application is in Background" was checked on the Device Setup page. One I unchecked that, all was well.

Yes, that was pretty impressive. Okay, back to creating some audio examples with Fabrik R.

[Fredsa]

Craig, would you elaborate on line 3-4 having "not an awfull amount of gain"...or how you put it!

[Anderton]

It's funny, but this same issue came up with the Mackie Onyx 400F: The non-instrument line ins just didn't seem to have a lot of gain.

For example, I plugged my Peavey DPM-3, an older synthesizer, into inputs 3/4 and kicked the gain up as far as it would go (at the synth and the K24D), yet the highest levels I could get were around -6dB. To put things in perspective, that's usually where I like to hit anyway -- I'm one of those people who would rather have a bit more headroom and not worry about losing 1 bit of resolution. But still, that seems a little stingy.

I also tried plugging in a couple of consumer electronics pieces -- a Sony Minidisc, and a Pioneer XM To Go receiver. With the MD, I came out of the line outs, and the XM To Go, the headphone outs. With both cranked to their maximum levels, I wasn't able to get much more than -15dB or so.

Of course, if I patched them into the instrument inputs, I could get plenty of gain. But if you're planning on using the K24D onstage, and you have some older synths around that don't have real hot levels, don't expect that ins 3/4 will bring them up sufficiently to match signal sources you have plugged into inputs 1/2.

[Anderton]

As promised, it's time for some audio examples because I can tell you all day the Fabrik R sounds great...but hearing is believing.

Please note: When you download any of these examples, if they have a .PHP extension, change them to .MP3 and they will play in iTunes, Windows Media Player, etc.

This first example is just taking a percussive transient and triggering a long tail from the Hall algorithm. As you'll hear, even through it's an MP3, the tail is silky smooth and doesn't have any annoying periodicity or artifacts.

[Anderton]

This example uses the plate algorithm instead. You can actually make it a bit brighter, but I decided to bring the brightness down so it would be a little "warmer." Again, the sound quality is beyond reproach.

[Anderton]

Same thing -- impulse through algorithm -- but using the Live algorithm. TC says this one is a bit grainier and has more presence, and it does.

[Anderton]

In contrast to the previous examples that showed off the quality of the decay tail, this one puts the reverb in context. Here we have drums going through an algorithm I tweaked to give a fairly smal room sound -- something to add some ambience.

[Anderton]

In this example, the drums are "opened up" by being put in a concert hall.

So if you've downloaded the previous examples, now you know why I think the reverb is really good :)

[Anderton]

I think we've covered a fair amount of ground so far, but we still need to cover the Fabrik C, which has excellent compression and equalization. There are also some other loose ends, like the ability to store routing presets for live use, storage of Fabrik presets, and the like...see ya later!

[miziq]

Craig thanks for all!

You are great!

[Cmpsr]

Craig,

In regard to its operation with Sonar 6, do you believe these issues will be addressed by either TC or Cakewalk in the near future? Also, IYO will Konnekt's functionality with Sonar ever be on par with Cubase or Logic?

[Anderton]

In regard to its operation with Sonar 6, do you believe these issues will be addressed by either TC or Cakewalk in the near future? Also, IYO will Konnekt's functionality with Sonar ever be on par with Cubase or Logic?

Of course, I cannot speak for TC or Cakewalk, nor am I privy to their priorities for Konnekt 24D. All I can do is speculate based on common sense.

Sonar is an extremely popular program, so it would be in TC's best interests for Konnekt to be fully compatible with it. Furthermore, it is in Cakewalk's best interests for Sonar to work with as many interfaces as possible. Whether the problem is with Konnekt or Sonar is hard to say, because Sonar works with several other interfaces I've tested, and Konnekt 24D works with several other hosts I've tested. However, both products are relatively new, and each has had one small update. These are the kinds of issues that generally get worked out over time.

However, I would always caution against buying something because "someday it might work the way I want." You can only go by what exists now. On the other hand, both companies have alluded to updates that will be released relatively soon. I'm sure now that this issue is on their radars, at the very least some testing will occur to find out if there really is a problem, or whether this is something unique to my system.

[Fredsa]

Craig, is the situation for line in 1-2 at the back of the unit the same as you described the line 3-4? I have an MKS70 and a Microwave XT I 'd like to be able to patch in ther all the time at home.

Also I have an S5000 with adat outs and a Creamware Noah with ADAT out and spdifs, what happens to the sync situation if I hav both unit conceted to the konnekt? Let's say I conncet the S5000 through ADAT to the Konnekt and have it sync to the S5000, how do I kepp the Noah in sync with the rest if it's Spdif goes to Konnekt too? WOuld the word sync come handy here?

[Anderton]

Craig, is the situation for line in 1-2 at the back of the unit the same as you described the line 3-4? I have an MKS70 and a Microwave XT I 'd like to be able to patch in ther all the time at home.

Yes, but you can always go through the front panel connections for 1+2 and if you need more gain. The issue with 3+4 is there is no front panel "instrument" input.

Also I have an S5000 with adat outs and a Creamware Noah with ADAT out and spdifs, what happens to the sync situation if I hav both unit conceted to the konnekt? Let's say I conncet the S5000 through ADAT to the Konnekt and have it sync to the S5000, how do I kepp the Noah in sync with the rest if it's Spdif goes to Konnekt too? WOuld the word sync come handy here?

Konnekt 24D does not have word clock sync so that option is out. As to your other questions, I don't know enough about the gear you mention -- can it slave? Does it have to be a master? Does it have in and out? For example, it might be possible to send an ADAT out into Konnekt and have the K24D sync to that, and another device entering via SPDIF, but which also has a SPDIF in. You would run the K24D SPDIF out to the second device's SPDIF in, and set the second device to slave to the K24D.

[Anderton]

When using Wavelab 5 or 6 with the Konnekt 24D, either with ASIO or WDM, I get gapping and interruptions in audio playback (even with 8,192 sample buffers in the K24D). I have the 6.00b patch installed in Wavelab 6 and whatever the last update was for Wavelab 5. This doesn't seem to be a problem with recording, only playback. I tested Wavelab out with some other interfaces, and it worked fine.

Mike, have you tried the K24D with Wavelab? Do you know of anyone else having this problem?

[Fredsa]

Craig, I gather the issue with the line levels. as different from the driver issue, is hardware related...so there is no way they (TC) can change that. Am I right?

[gmore]

Thanks for the detail on ins 3/4.

[Anderton]

Originally posted by Fredsa
Craig, I gather the issue with the line levels. as different from the driver issue, is hardware related...so there is no way they (TC) can change that. Am I right?

That's a Mike Martin question :) I do know that it's possible to do amazing stuff in software, so you never know.

[Dtmodttl]

Hi,

Frequent HC reader here, but new to the forums...

I just bought a Konnekt 8 yesterday. Unfortunately, the direct monitoring doesn't seem to work. Put another way, the Konnekt is designed to act as a stand alone mixer, and I can't get it work. I'm a pro musician (jazz), relatively familiar with DAWs and audio interfaces, and I am unable to figure out what is wrong. Every setting seems to be correct, and I double checked my setup with the manual.

My monitors work, and the unit does route sound to the outputs, as I am able to listen to an MP3 when connected to the computer. Moreover, when working in Cubase (SX3), I can plug my guitar into the Konnekt unit and hear it fine, via the monitors. That is with the signal passing through the computer, however.

When not connected to a computer, the Konnekt defintely picks up the signal from my guitar (as I can see in the level meter on the front of the unit)---but, again, no sound is output, neither to monitors nor to headphones.

It's bizarre. I wonder whether I've got a defective unit.

It's particularly frustrating as I am very excited about getting the Konnekt up and running. Combination of form factor and features is by far the best for what I do.

I've emailed tech support and should hear back within the next couple of days. Meanwhile, I thought I'd post here to see if there's something obvious I may have missed.

Dtmodttl

[Anderton]

It's important to understand how the front panel controls work when the computer is not attached. Go through the Ch select settings and turn the volume up on each one. Also, remember that if you're plugged into the instrument inputs, the pad switch needs to be pushed in. And make sure your line in pushbutton is set correctly.

Also remember you can save routings are presets. Maybe you've called up a preset that doesn't work with your setup?

As the box works with your computer, I doubt that it's a hardware problem. Also -- when I got the 24D, there was already a software and firmware update on the site. Have you checked to make sure you're running the latest version?

Good luck, it sounds to me like it's just some misset parameter or button somewhere.

[Fredsa]

Since replacing the mixer is a primary concern for me it will dependent on wether I can get my synths to have ok input levels on all the inputs, so I am hoping Mike will say "we'll fix it in the software"!

[Anderton]

A lot of that depends on how new your synths are. Newer ones tend to have hotter outputs.

[Dtmodttl]

Thanks for the reply re. the Konnekt 8 direct monitoring setup.

I discovered an interesting thing. I can plug my guitar into the aux inputs, and the sound goes direct to the monitors just fine.

Unfortunately, I still have the problem with lines 1 and 2---both the front inputs and the rear inputs. I tried an experiment, which is applying a chorus effect between my guitar and the main Konnekt channels. At higher volume levels, I can hear a faint 'woosh' from the chorus---but that's it.

Everything seems to be set up correctly on the Konnect front panel.

> Also remember you can save routings are presets...

I've also double checked the control panel settings and "direct monitoring" is turned on. However, the computer settings are beside the point for now, as I'm just trying to use the unit without a computer.

I wonder whether firmware is the issue, but I'm running version 1.01 build 861, which I believe is the latest.

I feel more and more like this may be a hardware problem---it's a very rare thing, but it happens to the best of manufacturers, especially with new units. I'm not one to quickly think that, but in this case I'm just not seeing any alternatives.

I'm interested in what tech support says, and I expect they'll get back to me by Tuesday or so. I might post their response here. If I'm having this problem, others probably will too.

Cheers,
Dt

[Dtmodttl]

Me again -

After a Google search, I noticed a posting/blog/comment elsewhere about direct monitoring not working on an Intel Mac. TC is apparently aware and is/was going to release a firmware update.

Anyone know anything more?

I may well be in the same boat, although I don't have a Mac---I'm using a Dell laptop with the Konnekt 8, with an Intel Core 2 Duo processor at 2ghz, 2gb memory, etc, etc.

But here's where I'm confused: should this at all matter in stand-alone mode, i.e. Konnekt not connected to a computer? When the unit is connected to a computer, there is an option in the software control panel to turn on/off direct monitoring. However, when I disconnect the unit from the computer (and cycle the power) the software 'direct monitoring' setting should have no effect----or so I assume.

Dt

[sonicE]

Many thanks to you, Craig for this Pro Review! I've been investigating audio interfaces this last little while, and was dismayed by some of the negative user reviews of the ones I was most seriously considering getting (e.g. Focusrite Saffire and MOTU Ultralite). This evening I was pursuing my "studies" in this area at the local bookstore by flipping through the latest music tech mags from the UK (Future Music, etc.), when I saw an ad for the Konnekt 24D. From T.C. Electronic!! Maybe the wait has been worth it after all!

I came home to find out what I could online, found this thread, and have spent the last hour or two reading through the posts here. So far, needless to say, I'm very impressed! I do have a few concerns, however, which hopefully either you or Mike can alleviate or dismiss. One is regarding the headphone signal being tied to the main outputs of the unit. Does this mean that it would be impossible to use the unit in a DJing context (using, say, NI's Traktor) where one needed to have a cue mix for the cans? The reports on the unusually low line input levels are also somewhat worrying. Hopefully Mike will let us all know if that is something that can be addressed at software end.

Finally, my computer is an early ("Sawtooth") G4 with an upgraded 1.4Ghz processor (1 Gig RAM), and it seems--judging from user reviews of other audio interfaces--that there is a greater likelihood of issues arising when trying to get an interface to perform adequately or smoothly with machines (or, more precisely, parts of machines) that are this old. I'm wondering if the folks at T.C. have been made aware of any such issues through customer support calls/emails, and if Mike would be kind enough to relay them to us here if any have indeed come to their attention.

Thanks again, and keep up the great work, guys (and thanks to all who are bringing to light all the questions that most need to be asked before we go out and invest in a new -- and very promising looking! -- audio interface).

[Anderton]

Regarding the headphone signal being tied to the main outputs of the unit...does this mean that it would be impossible to use the unit in a DJing context (using, say, NI's Traktor) where one needed to have a cue mix for the cans?

I don't see any obvious way to do that, because what you're really asking for is two bus outputs. Possibly stacking two units would do the job somewhat, but I don't have two here to test...any comments, Mike?

The reports on the unusually low line input levels are also somewhat worrying.

I don't know if I'd say "unusually low." It wasn't that long ago that -15dB on a DAT machine translated to 0VU on a console.

My theory is that they're running the A/D converters wide open, with all bits exposed at the input, and little if any gain-staging prior to it. Thus, if you turn down the gain, you're turning it down digitally, post-converter, in order to maintain the full dynamic range. So in a way, the lower level isn't all that important because the main reason why you want to slam an input is to use the full dynamic range. Suppose the input is down even something like -12dB; you're still only losing two bits of resolution.

This isn't too say that if you have an old synth with a low output, you won't be frustrated if you try to plug into the line ins instead of the instrument ins. But overall, the K24D is very clean, and you can get away with losing a bit or two.

BTW, not to hijack the thread, but what are the main problems you heard about with the Saffire and Ultralite? I should check whether the K24D has similar issues as those interfaces.

[Anderton]

Just in case it's not clear, I should mention that when using the Fabrik processors, even as send/receive units with your computer, they are not loading down the host processor as they run on their own DSP within the K24D.

[miziq]

Hi guys :)

Got the unit yesterday. So far everything is working nicely. Converters and sound is top notch and build quality also.

Havig dsp onboard is a Godsend.

I haven't found the way jet to route Fabrik R rever as a send to programs like ableton Live or Logic xpress. Mybe you Craig can add something here.

Guitar rig 2 is working nice. Dead quiet and great sound. I was also suprised by the quality of headphone amp. It even crank up my HD-650 300k headphones.

For the price this unit is really great.

[Yggdrasil]

Hello,

Miziq, to use fabrik C & R as send/return effect, you must set them to "computer s/r stereo(or mono) " in each plugin pages or in the "setup" tab, under the name "DSP effect settings"

then, in your sequencer (i don't know logic) you must send the signal to the ASIO channels 5&6 for Fabrik C, and 7&8 for the Fabrik R ...


;)

[miziq]

Hi Yggdrasil,


i'm on Mac. Is this done totaly internaly? Should i send to inputs or outputs?

[Yggdrasil]

I don't think that there is differences in use if you are on MAC or PC, all is done internally.

Just look to the logic manual too know how to setup send/return to differents ASIO channels...

[sonicE]

Craig, I had a vague sense that it might be possible to use outputs 3/4 for the room mix, and assign the cue mix to 1/2/Phones, and sure enough, that is what I find recommended for a DJing situation on p.19 of the manual:

This example illustrates how Konnekt integrates perfectly
in a live setup. The objects in a live setup could be:
• DAW/laptop as source for playing audio-files.
• Headphones for undisturbed monitoring using the
OUTPUT level control for separate headphones level.
• Microphone for vocals utilizing Konnekt’s IMPACT™
pre-amps and e.g. the Fabrik C channel strip*.
• MIDI keys for additional keyboards and/or program
changes.
• Distribution to PA (amp-speakers) using the SOURCE
level control as separate level control.
Connect all devices according to the illustration above.
Remember to activate phantom power if you are using a
condenser microphone. Also note that outputs 3/4 in this
setup are used as main outs to PA.
Advantage of this setup
This setup enables you to route different signals to the
headphones and PA system via the DAW. This is useful
for numerous purposes. E.g. for excellent cue monitoring
for DJ’s as well as individual level control of the two
signals.

I'm wondering if, like me, you were making the assumption that 1/2 would have to be the main (room) mix in such a situation, and therefore failed to see the solution of using 3/4 as the main mix, or was I perhaps not clear enough in explaining what I wanted to achieve?

BTW, not to hijack the thread, but what are the main problems you heard about with the Saffire and Ultralite? I should check whether the K24D has similar issues as those interfaces.


Gee, to be honest, I haven't even bothered to keep track of the specific issues associated with each interface, but I remember that there were, for example, problems involving the performance of the stock Rage 128 video card in the early G4s when one of the interfaces was in operation. There's also the question of the slow system bus on that generation of G4. If any other specific issues come back to me, I'll be sure to post them here.

BTW, I notice that the manual states that the minimum requirement for the operation of the 24D itself is (on a Mac) OS 10.3.9, while Assimilator requires 10.4.x. Could Mike confirm that the 24D will work with Panther, and does not require Tiger?

[Johnstar]

He thanx for the pro review....


The konnekt 24d site has nearly NO information on the interface (just some german guy saying the interface is really nice :))


As a newbie i found ev in your review helpful (even you taking the interface apart)

Can someone tell me if the sending of the effects also work in logic 5.5 (pc version) and i hope that a review of the assimilator effect is still coming?

One of the reasons my eye caught this card was that someone told me that this effect also worked like a vst plugin and that the cards hardware did the calculating. Now that i know this is not true i still would like to know if you guys can help me out if this tool really helps me out with my mix. (jazz house music)

I also found your review about the guitar-preamps...effects etc. very nice.... 90 procent shure that i'm buying this card next week...

keep up da good work and props for your dedication!!!!

grtzz

John

[Cmpsr]

Yeah, thanks a lot Craig... this is really helpful! Let's hope that these Sonar-latency issues are properly addressed and this unit becomes the go-to interface for those of us at this price range!

[Anderton]

I'm wondering if, like me, you were making the assumption that 1/2 would have to be the main (room) mix in such a situation, and therefore failed to see the solution of using 3/4 as the main mix, or was I perhaps not clear enough in explaining what I wanted to achieve?

Actually it had occurred to me, but I thought you wanted to be able to monitor EITHER bus with the headphones. Although now that I think about it, by the time it hits the PA, there's no real need to monitor it on the phones.

But this brings up a good point I'm not sure I mentioned: Using the Send controls, you can send signal to any of the outputs. For example, you wouldn't have to send to 3/4/, you could send to the SPDIF or ADAT out if that was more convenient to use as an output.

[Anderton]

Can someone tell me if the sending of the effects also work in logic 5.5 (pc version) and i hope that a review of the assimilator effect is still coming?

Yes, there will be a review of the Assimilator as that is part of the package and besides, it looks like fun :)

Unfortunately I don't have Logic to test here, but any host that can do real-time monitoring of an input should work. The Konnekt 24D ins and outs to the Fabrik R work just like any other inputs or outputs.

[Anderton]

Let's hope that these Sonar-latency issues are properly addressed and this unit becomes the go-to interface for those of us at this price range!

Well let me emphasize that may be an issue with my particular system. I haven't received word one way or the other whether anyone has used the K24D with Sonar and experienced the same kind of issues I did, or had no problems at all. So at the moment, my database of "K24D with Sonar experiences" consists of one person with one computer! I don't think that's enough to draw any solid conclusions just yet.

[Cmpsr]

Craig,

Concerning your system... I spoke to TC yesterday and they suggested using a dedicated TI chipset firewire card, claiming that if I did, latencies of 128 to 256 would be obtainable with ANY DAW. Are you using a dedicated 1394 PCI card or at least running the K24D as the only firewire peripheral hooked up to your computer? Apparently this thing doesn't like to share!

Sorry if you mentioned this earlier... this thread is getting long.

[sonicE]

Re having the Konnekt on its own firewire card: my early G4 only has the original firewire/USB ports. I was hoping to make the best use of my three expansion bays by getting a USB 2.0 and Firewire IEEE 1394 Combo PCI card. Would having the USB 2.0 on the same card as the one the Konnekt is attached to (even if I were not using the firewire for anything other than the Konnekt) be equally inadvisable? Or would the best solution really be to have that card for most firewire/USB purposes, and a separate 1394 card for the Konnekt? If I do that, then a new video card (needed to drive a large DVI monitor I'm planning on getting) will use up the last remaining bay.

[Anderton]

I spoke to TC yesterday and they suggested using a dedicated TI chipset firewire card, claiming that if I did, latencies of 128 to 256 would be obtainable with ANY DAW. Are you using a dedicated 1394 PCI card or at least running the K24D as the only firewire peripheral hooked up to your computer?

Both! Dedicated card with TI chipset, nothing else connected. I do get latencies of 256 samples with Sonar, albeit with glitching sometimes, but what's curious to me is that I get 128 with other hosts and even 64 with Tracktion.

[polipolirecords]

Aloha! This review has been very helpful as a new owner of the 24D. I am using a Macbook 2 GB with 2 GB ram and I record using Logic. The 24D is Very clean and worth the learning curve just like logic.

BUT I went to record a jam session with the 24D and I had planed on using 2 condesor mics and 2 line ins on the famous quiet line 3+4. I could barely here my Mesa Boogie walkabout Scout bass amp and the guitar players amp was even softer than mine, barely a visual or audible signal. I did turn everything in the TCNear up. We both had our direct outputs cranked. Unfortunately I purchased this unit for this exact setup and with out purchasing another, I can only record 2 tracks. We did pull an ond tube mic pre out of the closet to get the bass recorded it sounded great TC has really done a great job with this product, but I had hoped to just use the 24D a GREAT product on it's own and not have to bring a bunch extra gear. I'm hoping Mike is back soon, so that we can find out if there is a fix other than sending back the first batch due to incorect gain settings on input 3+4.

Keep up the good work!

[Fredsa]

Hi all, the line 3-4 line level may be a deal breaker for me as well, now let's keep the fingers crossed for TC's feed back on t hat.

[Dtmodttl]

Hi All,

I just heard from TC's tech support:

Indeed, a new firmware (and, I think, software) update is on the way---I would expect very soon.

That I cannot direct monitor is a known issue and will be fixed with the firmware update.

Naturally. I would expect further issues to be resolved by the update, but I don't have a list of them.

Dt

[Mike Martin]

I've done quite a bit of testing this morning, on Konnekt 24D and the 3-4 inputs. I'd like ask Craig (or anyone else) to take a moment to conduct something similar.

I took a test tone, generated from a KSP8. This signal was run into Konnekt through the ADAT inputs.

From Cubase SX 3, I monitored this input signal and output it to Line Outs 3-4. I took a patch cable and connected the line out 3-4 to line inputs 3-4. The levels are identical at both input and output stages. (screen shot attached)

I did similar tests generating test tones from a Yamaha digital and compared the line level inputs to an RME Multiface and got identical results.


-Mike Martin
TC|US

[Mike Martin]

Originally posted by sonicE
Re having the Konnekt on its own firewire card: my early G4 only has the original firewire/USB ports. I was hoping to make the best use of my three expansion bays by getting a USB 2.0 and Firewire IEEE 1394 Combo PCI card. Would having the USB 2.0 on the same card as the one the Konnekt is attached to (even if I were not using the firewire for anything other than the Konnekt) be equally inadvisable? Or would the best solution really be to have that card for most firewire/USB purposes, and a separate 1394 card for the Konnekt? If I do that, then a new video card (needed to drive a large DVI monitor I'm planning on getting) will use up the last remaining bay.

SonicE,
In my experience (on PC based machines), USB/Firewire Combo cards are troublesome when it comes to 1394 audio interfaces. I can't say that you wouldn't have better luck on your Mac, because I've never used a combo card on a Mac but in general most companies recommend that you use a dedicated 1394 card.

-Mike Martin
TC|US

[Mike Martin]

Originally posted by Anderton
When using Wavelab 5 or 6 with the Konnekt 24D, either with ASIO or WDM, I get gapping and interruptions in audio playback (even with 8,192 sample buffers in the K24D). I have the 6.00b patch installed in Wavelab 6 and whatever the last update was for Wavelab 5. This doesn't seem to be a problem with recording, only playback. I tested Wavelab out with some other interfaces, and it worked fine.

Mike, have you tried the K24D with Wavelab? Do you know of anyone else having this problem?

Craig,
I'm currently using a beta of the upcoming 1.03 release and playback works fine.

In addition, you may want to confirm you clock settings, Wavelab will change them based on the file you're clocked to an external source as I was, could create a problem.

-Mike Martin
TC|US

[Mike Martin]

Originally posted by sonicE

BTW, I notice that the manual states that the minimum requirement for the operation of the 24D itself is (on a Mac) OS 10.3.9, while Assimilator requires 10.4.x. Could Mike confirm that the 24D will work with Panther, and does not require Tiger?

Support for 10.3.9 was for Konnekt was added recently.

http://www.tcelectronic.com/default.asp?Id=7477&AjrDcmntId=6310

[Mike Martin]

Originally posted by Anderton
Let's hope that these Sonar-latency issues are properly addressed and this unit becomes the go-to interface for those of us at this price range!

Well let me emphasize that may be an issue with my particular system. I haven't received word one way or the other whether anyone has used the K24D with Sonar and experienced the same kind of issues I did, or had no problems at all. So at the moment, my database of "K24D with Sonar experiences" consists of one person with one computer! I don't think that's enough to draw any solid conclusions just yet.

Craig,
The people at Cakewalk were kind enough to send me (and our customer support office) Sonar 6, it hasn't arrived yet. I'll test as soon as a I can.

[Mike Martin]

Originally posted by Cmusicmaker
6. Jitter levels? A recent review I read described the Saffire LE (105db dynamic range) as having a better or more focused sound than the 1820M (120db dynamic range). All subjective I know, but the reviewer thought that the reason was because of the low or *lower* level of jitter in the Saffire Le <250 picoseconds.

I asked our engineers for a little more feedback on this question and I got a detailed answer.

The Konnekt (and the DICE II chip) has a jitter level of 47 pico seconds RMS (band width limited to 100 Hz to 40 kHz). It is difficult to compare with the numbers of the Saffire directly (without knowing what is the band width and is it peak or RMS etc.)

What is jitter? Here is an AES paper that was written on the subject by the engineer that designer of the clock circuit in the Konnekt 24D, as well as AIR, EQ Station and System 6000.
http://www.tcelectronic.com/media/frandsen_2000_clock_synchr.pdf

There will be more on the subject posted on our website very soon.

-Mike Martin
TC|US

[Retro749]

Thanks for the info Mr.Martin....

Can you give us a timeline on the availability of an AU version of Assimilator plug for Intel Mac's?

I have both a new Intel Mac and Konnekt 24D coming this week.

T.I.A.

[Anderton]

From Cubase SX 3, I monitored this input signal and output it to Line Outs 3-4. I took a patch cable and connected the line out 3-4 to line inputs 3-4. The levels are identical at both input and output stages. (screen shot attached).

I'm sure the 3/4 inputs are unity gain, no problem there. The issue is not so much with the input sensitivity of the K24D as it is with the output levels of some instruments. It would be nice to have a little gain on ins 3/4 to accommodate the "dinosaur" synths and "recording outs" from devices that sit at -10 or even lower. Even 6 - 10dB of gain would eliminate the need to use an external preamp for signals that aren't hot enough.

As I mentioned earlier, this is something that was mentioned in the Onyx 400F thread concerning its line inputs, so I suspect we may be dealing with a "standard design practice."

BTW Mike, hope you had a nice Thanksgiving! Your participation is this thread is greatly appreciated, and I'm sure your no-nonsense, hype-free anwers are appreciated as well.

So when is v1.03 coming out?!?

[Mike Martin]

Just as reference:

RME lists on their website for the FF400:
Input/Output level for 0 dBFS @ +4 dBu: +13 dBu

Konnekt 24D/8 is also -
Full Scale Input Level @ 0 dBFS +13 dBu

-Mike Martin
TC|US

[Mike Martin]

Originally posted by Anderton

BTW Mike, hope you had a nice Thanksgiving! Your participation is this thread is greatly appreciated, and I'm sure your no-nonsense, hype-free anwers are appreciated as well.

So when is v1.03 coming out?!?

Craig,
Thank you! Thanksgiving was great, I hope yours was nice too! It was tough for me to stay away from the forums over the weekend. ;)

In regards to 1.03 they've pushed it back a few more days. I expected it to be out by now. There are some major enhancements and improvements so it will be worth the wait.

[Fredsa]

Hi thanks Mike and Craig, for someone not really knowledgable on the figures of dbu and such, does that mean that the line input 3-4 would be able to accomadate for example levels from dynamic mics such as sm56 and so on as one poster had trouble doing that?

[Anderton]

3/4 are not capable of bringing a dynamic mic signal up to a decent level, besides, they don't have XLR inputs. You would definitely want to use inputs 1 and 2 for mics.

[Fredsa]

My engineer friend is saying "in order to get full scale amplication in your device, you need an input of +13 db (which is actually high) so if you put in an -10 db synth into your device, you'll be short of 23 db." will I need to reconect everytime I am recording my MKS 70 (diansour) for ex.??

[Mike Martin]

Fredsa,
I own a MKS-70 and many other dinosaur synths. The MKS-70 can get quite loud. Editing one program (and increasing the VCA Level (screen #61)) I could actually clip inputs 3-4 because the signal was too hot. Konnekt would work fine with a synth like the MKS70, especially if you're not worried about hitting the edit button. :)

-Mike Martin
TC|US

PS. Thats one of my favorite dinosaurs.

[Fredsa]

Thanks Mike...I know that MKS 70 is loud as I have several pieces of gear damaged by the inhuman bases from that!! let me put my question this way...in what situation will the input level of 3-4 be problematic..what is "too low"?

[Really!]

Originally posted by Mike Martin
Craig,
The people at Cakewalk were kind enough to send me (and our customer support office) Sonar 6, it hasn't arrived yet. I'll test as soon as a I can.

Mike, let us know as soon as you have any information on the card and Sonar 6. There is a thread going on over in the Sonar forum (on Cakewalks website), and someone just replaced the card with a different one because they couldn't get it to work. There are also many others intrested in the Konnekt 24D ...

Thanks!

[Yggdrasil]

Hello,


I have a Novation nova connected to line inputs 1/2 or 3/4 on rear panel.

Even with the patch volume and main volume to the max, i can barely go above the middle of the vu-meters. I think it's something like -10 dB (I'm not on my computer, so I'm unable to check).

Unfortunately, I don't own other pieces of hardware gear to make other tests. But the gain for the Nova was good enough on my old soundcard (Emu 0404).

Mike, can we expect this to be fixed by some firmware update, or this is a hardware related problem ?

It would be nice also to have some kind of indications in the control panel to know if phantom power is on or off.

finally, when can we expect the firmware update you spoke about earlier to be released ?


Many thanks for your answers, and again sorry for my poor english... :rolleyes:

[franklawrence]

Craig,
Can you give us your thougts about how this unit compares with the Firebox? I'm looking for a first computer interface and software combo for songwriting.
Thanks.

[timbos]

Hi, I luckily found this forum yesterday as I'm about to pull my hair out trying to get Konnekt to quit making horrible noises during playback with Sonar 5 and 6. My PC is a late model custom with a ASUS P4PE i845 chipset board with onboard Firewire, 2.4Ghz P4, 1.5 gig ram running the latest version of XP Home Ed.

I purchased Konnekt Monday and it replaced my "perfectly" working Echo Audio 24 bit Layla PCI card/ breakout box unit. I've used it flawlessly with my PC and my PC is almost 4 years old. I wanted to upgrade my 7 year old piece of audio hardware and got nothing but frustration instead.

Believe me, I spent hours fooling with Sonar latency and buffer settings, the Konnekt console setup sytem settings such as changing sample sizes, clock host settings, installed the latest driver software/firmware, disconnecting all other Firewire devices and you name it. The problems arise when I engage the echo monitoring on any track in Sonar. As I strum a guitar for example and let a chord ring out it sounds nice, but eventually you get this horrible crackle-fuzz sound that tails off into a reverbish type sound that will make your skin crawl.

I read where someone had a 1.03 beta driver and I would sure like to try that before I take this thing back to the store. I was very excited, but now I'm very disappointed. Konnekt looks like it was tested with Cubase and I'm sure Cubase is a fine product, but I've used Cakewalk for years and I'm used to it. I really want to get Konnekt to work with Cakewalk because the interface really seems like a quality product.

I really want to get in touch with TC's support before I haul this thing back to the store.

Thanks for listening and or any suggestions.

[Mike Martin]

Timbos,
I was specifically told not to give the beta version out. I know that our US offices have not distributed it. Please know that this is our highest priority at this point and as soon as I have more information about the Sonar issue I'll post it here. Timbos, send me a PM with your email address, also go to the TC Electronic website and register a support claim so our engineers can see it too.

Take care,
Mike Martin
TC|US

[Mike Martin]

Originally posted by Yggdrasil
Hello,

I have a Novation nova connected to line inputs 1/2 or 3/4 on rear panel.

Even with the patch volume and main volume to the max, i can barely go above the middle of the vu-meters. I think it's something like -10 dB (I'm not on my computer, so I'm unable to check).

Unfortunately, I don't own other pieces of hardware gear to make other tests. But the gain for the Nova was good enough on my old soundcard (Emu 0404).

Mike, can we expect this to be fixed by some firmware update, or this is a hardware related problem ?

Yggdrasil,
This topic was covered in detail on page 9 of this thread. The line inputs are calibrated at the same level as competitve products including those from Mackie and RME. This won't be changed.

It would be nice also to have some kind of indications in the control panel to know if phantom power is on or off.

This is in the next software release.

finally, when can we expect the firmware update you spoke about earlier to be released ?

I can't give an exact date at this time. Hopefully in the next week.

-Mike Martin
TC|US

[timbos]

Originally posted by Mike Martin
Timbos,
I was specifically told not to give the beta version out. I know that our US offices have not distributed it. Please know that this is our highest priority at this point and as soon as I have more information about the Sonar issue I'll post it here. Timbos, send me a PM with your email address, also go to the TC Electronic website and register a support claim so our engineers can see it too.

Take care,
Mike Martin
TC|US

Just to clarify, is my problem that I'm having with Sonar and Konnekt a driver issue? Is my situation unique or are they aware of other similar cases?

I'm going to pm you my info.
Thanks for the reply and help Mike.

Tim

[Anderton]

Just to clarify, is my problem that I'm having with Sonar and Konnekt a driver issue? Is my situation unique or are they aware of other similar cases?

Your situation is not unique, I have a similar problem. The main difference is I sampled the "horrible crackle-fuzz sound that tails off into a reverbish type sound that will make your skin crawl" just in case someone asks me to score a horror movie someday :) I could get things to work with longer latencies (256 samples) but adding more tracks or soft synths degraded the performance further.

Fortunately, Mike Martin is aware of this and as he said, "this is our highest priority at this point." I think when a company like TC says something is their "highest priority," you can expect to see a fix!

[Fredsa]

I think we can conclude that what Craig said about the possibility of -10 db synths outputs being accomadated in line 3-4 is our of question...based on Mike's answer. I just want to clarify that the comparrsion with FF400 is at +4db...right?

[Mike Martin]

Tim,

The problems you’re describing with Sonar seem a little different that what Craig Anderton and I are experiencing so just in case I’m putting together some general tips for using Firewire audio interfaces in Windows XP.

Choice of Firewire Interface

TC Electronic recommends a dedicated Firewire interfaces that use a TI chipset. Your motherboard uses a VIA6307 chipset, which should be ok but I honestly don’t know enough about your particular motherboard to be certain. You mentioned in your post that you have other Firewire devices. For the purposes of troubleshooting, I’d like to know what they are but for now keep them disconnected.

Windows

There are few things in Windows XP that need to be checked. If you have Windows XP Service Pack 2 installed, there is a bug that affects 1394 devices that needs to be manually patched. Here is the link for this update:

http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyId=CA0F2007-18B5-4112-8BD6-8BF4BD3130B9&displaylang=en



1394 Networking

By default, Windows will treat your 1394 (Firewire) interface as a networking device. I’d recommend disabling networking services on your Firewire port. To do this go to the Control Panel, select Network Connections. Here you’ll see your 1394 Connection listed along with your regular LAN devices. Right click on the 1394 Connection and choose disable. This should also prevent applications such as software firewalls from blocking traffic on your 1394 buss.



Processor Scheduling

ASIO drivers run as a background service. To improve performance (with any ASIO device) I’d recommend changing processor scheduling. To do this go to the Control Panel, select System. Choose the Advanced Tab. Under Performance, click Settings. Choose the Advanced tab and here you can set Processor scheduling to Background Services.


If you don’t have any other programs besides Sonar to try out, I’d recommend you download a demo of a program such as ACID from Sony Media Software www.sonymediasoftware.com This way we can help you can diagnose Konnekt while we get any Sonar specific issues resolved.

[Anderton]

Mike, that is an excellent post that I'm sure many will find very helpful. I did! Your comment:

<< TC Electronic recommends a dedicated Firewire interfaces that use a TI chipset. Your motherboard uses a VIA6307 chipset, which should be ok but I honestly don’t know enough about your particular motherboard to be certain.>>

I only have anecdotal evidence, but I've never had much luck with onboard motherboards. I also use a separate card, they're cheap enough and they seem to make FW stuff happy.

[h1pst3r]

Been lurking for a while and I love the HC Pro review format -- so thanks Craig! Also, Mike great contributions that only serve to reinforce the reputation that TC has earned in the business.

Basically due to this review I am now 98% of the way to the 24d (now that my fave online gear dealer has it in stock!), having had a fundamental shift away from the well respected E-mu 1616M. So...

1. Craig, will we be seeing a review of the Fabrik C and Assimilator soon?

2. Craig and Mike, one of the big selling points of the 1616m for me was it having the same convertors as Pro tools HD. I think I read in another forum that those convertors are made by AKM (?). I also read that TC worked with AKM for the 24D's convertors. Is this true, and in general (Craig) how would you compare them against the 1820's (I read your 1820 review), as I think the 1820's are the same as the 1616m.

3. Craig, how would you compare the TC virtual mixer app with E-mu's powerMix in terms of functionlity and ease of use?

4. Since having 2 excellent quality TC effects is more valuable to me than having 600 presets of mid-range E-mu effects, I would really appreciate your insight on a comparison between them. Bascially the 24d and the 1616m are 2 of the very few DSP-equipped interfaces on the market, so your objective take is very valuable to me.

5. Craig will you also be covering how to change the FX when in stand-alone mode with the P1-3 buttons on the front of the 24d? For me the 24D will be serving double-duty as a live FX box/mixer and a studio interface -- the fact that I can use it without my laptop is a huge bonus over the 1616m...but I still wonder about the extent of the tweaking I can do from the front-panel alone.

Many thanks guys...!!

-h1pst3r

[timbos]

Thanks Mike and Anderton for responding. Today during lunch I picked up a Belkin 3 port Firewire PCI card. This was in a clear package so I was able to verify that it has a TI chip on the board. It was the only one with a TI chipset as a matter of fact. All the other brands had VIA chipsets. I'm going to install it this evening and make the necessary adjustments to Windows as Mike suggested.

Wish me luck. I'll post my findings either later or in the a.m.

P.S. Should I use WDM or ASIO for Sonar? And which Konnekt outputs/inputs should I choose as playback and recording timing masters for Sonar? Does it matter?

Thanks again.

[Mike Martin]

Originally posted by h1pst3r
I also read that TC worked with AKM for the 24D's convertors. Is this true

Yes its true.

The rest of your post is asking for Craig's opinion. ;) So I'll let him handle the rest.

-Mike Martin
TC|US

[sonicE]

Re firewire cards: is anyone here using the 24D with the built-in firewire of a G4 Mac? I haven't looked into it, but I highly doubt Apple was using the TI chipset in their G4s! If I can use the G4's built-in firewire for the 24D, then I can get a USB2/1394 combo card for my other firewire needs.

BTW, thanks Timbos for that info re the Belkin PCI card. I was just looking into cards at a local Mac shop yesterday. Having told the owner I was looking for a card that used the TI chipset, he grabbed a LaCie PCI card box from a stack of five of them off the shelf, commenting that all the other ones were s**t, only TI was always reliable. He then opened up the package, and inspecting the chip, we saw that the LaCie card was using the VIA chipset! He had brought in the LaCie specifically because as far as he knew they used the TI, but apparently they have changed suppliers and are now using VIA (leaving him none too happy about having five of the things on hand - the only firewire PCI card he stocks!).

[Anderton]

1. Craig, will we be seeing a review of the Fabrik C and Assimilator soon?

Yes, in the next day or two.

2. Craig and Mike, one of the big selling points of the 1616m for me was it having the same convertors as Pro tools HD. I think I read in another forum that those convertors are made by AKM (?). I also read that TC worked with AKM for the 24D's convertors. Is this true, and in general (Craig) how would you compare them against the 1820's (I read your 1820 review), as I think the 1820's are the same as the 1616m.

I don't hear a huge difference, although there are some differences with the mic pres that I mentioned earlier. Either has fine sound quality, but the K24D is somewhat newer, and you know how technology is. Bottom line is I think the K24D has a bit of an edge in sound quality, but it's not big or obvious.

3. Craig, how would you compare the TC virtual mixer app with E-mu's powerMix in terms of functionlity and ease of use?

That's a loaded question, because the PowerMix has strong supporters and detractors! Certainly, the TC is simpler to understand and more elegant; the bit-mapped graphics in the PowerMix are a hindrance in terms of readability. But the PowerMix definitely has more options -- the way you can insert sends, effects, and metering is cool, and I like the "virtual patch bay." You're also managing more I/O, with features like the turntable input. So, functionality: +1 to E-Mu. Ease of use: +1 to TC.

4. Since having 2 excellent quality TC effects is more valuable to me than having 600 presets of mid-range E-mu effects, I would really appreciate your insight on a comparison between them. Bascially the 24d and the 1616m are 2 of the very few DSP-equipped interfaces on the market, so your objective take is very valuable to me.

The TC effects are definitely better than the E-Mu equivalents, no question about that. The reverb in particular is stellar, and remember that the E-Mu effects don't work above 48kHz (although at 96kHz, you can't use both the Fabrik C and R). However, E-Mu offers more choices in effects, and some of them are quite original, like the ring modulator and the SP-12ulator.

But in terms of cards-with-DSP, note that I'm a very big fan of the Creamware SCOPE system. While considerably more costly than the E-Mu or TC systems, it comes with a great array of effects and instruments, along with an intuitive patching and routing window. I would place the quality of its effects closer to TC's than E-Mu's, and there's a lot of variety. But the price is a deal-breaker for many.

5. Craig will you also be covering how to change the FX when in stand-alone mode with the P1-3 buttons on the front of the 24d? For me the 24D will be serving double-duty as a live FX box/mixer and a studio interface -- the fact that I can use it without my laptop is a huge bonus over the 1616m...but I still wonder about the extent of the tweaking I can do from the front-panel alone.

Yes, I will. It's mostly about routing; presets are called up separately.

[Anderton]

Thanks Mike and Anderton for responding. Today during lunch I picked up a Belkin 3 port Firewire PCI card. This was in a clear package so I was able to verify that it has a TI chip on the board. It was the only one with a TI chipset as a matter of fact. All the other brands had VIA chipsets. I'm going to install it this evening and make the necessary adjustments to Windows as Mike suggested.

Wish me luck. I'll post my findings either later or in the a.m.

P.S. Should I use WDM or ASIO for Sonar? And which Konnekt outputs/inputs should I choose as playback and recording timing masters for Sonar? Does it matter?

Remember that you'll still have issues with Sonar, just different ones. However, Mike's suggestions should help your system anyway. I think we'll need to wait for the update before we get solid Sonar performance.

At the moment, ASIO and WDM seem equally problematic with Sonar.

[Fredsa]

A question for Mike, I am also planning to ge a powercore compact nut I only have one firewire port on my laptop...will I be able to daisy chain the powercore throuogh the Konnekt?

[Alndln2]

Well, my brother got his today for his new Centrino based dualcore laptop, and as expected the Konnekt8 barley performs in Sonar 5. He has 14 days to return it and he's trying to hang on with word of an update. Another discouraging thing which I haven't seen brought up here(maybe I missed it) is the fact that his FW Seagate external drive isn't recognized in the Konnekt's extra FW port, and I'm not sure it's such a good idea to chain them the other way because I rember PreSonus strongly recomending that FW audio devices should be first in the chain. I hate to come off glum here and I did warn him about the reports of Sonar's performance with this unit and it is his gamble, but to be honest, I personally am expecting a rough ride here judging by TC's past driver performance record(PoCo). It seems that TC seems to treat Cakewalk as an afterthought, if at all, and judging by the PoCo FW(and Pci card) and now this, it doesn't look promising as far as I'm concerned . At the moment he's hoping to hold on with at least some word from TC regarding these matters, but he's also starting to look at options that work(PreSonus FireBox/Focusrite Saffire etc.).

[Anderton]

At the moment he's hoping to hold on with at least some word from TC regarding these matters,

According to Mike Martin, resolving the Sonar issue is "our highest priority at this point." I think the days when any company could treat Sonar as an afterthought are pretty much past.

I don't expect the update will allow the 64 sample performance I got with Tracktion and the K24D, but if it gives solid Sonar performance with 128 samples, as it doesn with the other hosts I tested, that'll work for me.

As to using the K24D firewire port for other devices, Mike can give the "real" answer but my assumption is that's for chaining other K24D units. I think there's a reason why Firewire cards usually have multiple ports...

[timbos]

Well I have some positive things to report here about how I have Sonar and Konnekt getting along with each other for the most part now.

First I installed the new Belkin Firewire card with the TI chipset. Then I went to the Microsoft download site and downloaded the Firewire port patch. After that I performed all the adjustments to Windows Mike suggested and restarted the PC. After turning on Konnekt I brought up Sonar 5 and went to the driver settings. All were on WDM like I've always had them back when I was using my Echo Audio Darla 24 PCI card. I opened the Konnekt control panel and set the sampling to 64. Yikes! Sonars sound engine made a racket when I engaged the echo monitoring on a track. So I bumped Konnekts sampling to 128, which was an improvement but still got nasty noises. Then on to 256 samples which made it bearable, but I had to set it on 512 samples to get the popping or static to a minimum. But, it was still there occasionally. Hmmm. So then I went back into Sonar and switched the drivers over to ASIO and voila, 98% perfect playback and echo monitoring! I say near perfect because I feel that better playback should occur at a lower sample rate, at least 256 if not 128. I hope TC can work on this in the driver update, because even with using the ASIO drivers for Sonar, if sampling is any less than 512 with Konnekt you'll get a profound click or pop.

I played and recorded various tid bits for a couple hours using echo monitoring and never had a situation where the audio slowed down, fizzled or crackled. It was near perfect. And I say near perfect because I still detect a little something intermittently. It's not what I would call a pop or stutter, it's like a very faint bit of static that is so brief I would measure it in a millisecond. And it is very random. It's the same kind of noise that can occur like if your opening up a realtime effect on a track with the echo engine on or another program or something. So to try to isolate this random issue I made sure of a few things first. I use McAfee Virus Scan so I always lockdown the firewall when recording so it's not attempting to parse traffic, and I put my cable modem on standby. All virus scanning is scheduled to be done in the early a.m so I know nothing is running in the backround. Some programs that used to run on my system tray I have removed by disabling their activation during startup in MSCONFIG. Software or program wise, nothing should be causing that random spit of static. Although barely noticeable it is there. But the funny thing is it doesn't wind up in the recording even though I can hear it when recording. And when I play something back and I hear it I'll go to the exact point in the track where I knew it occured and it won't happen. So I thought maybe it's noise coming in through the Konnekt power adapter. So I removed it from the unit and let it run off bus power. I'm not saying that cured it, but I'm going to play more this evening and make that determination.

On another note, I noticed that Konnekt will get a little "poppy or clicky" if you've not chosen the selection you've made as your "clock" as the right one. For instance, my studio is simple. I have a Roland XP60 synth going into line 3/4 in the rear and my guitars going either in the front jacks or through my Boss GT8 guitar processor via the SPDIF optical out to the Konnekt SPDIF in. All drums are software based. What I noticed is that if I'm playing first through my GT8 using SPDIF "in" on Konnekt I have to set the Konnekt clock master to SPDIF or I get a flashing triangle on the Konnekt mixer and maybe it might get some pops. Then if I decide to play my guitar through the front input instead I had better change the clock in Konnekt to "internal" or else I may get a pop or two. Would I be right on this or does it matter?

Overall things seem to be working bearable right now. But I think TC has some major work to do concerning their Konnekt drivers for WDM because of all the profound noise, slowdown and stutter that can occur. Plus I think the Konnekt driver update should also be tweaked to allow a much lower sampling rate to lower latency for ASIO without sacrificing playback.

I must say after getting this unit up and running (IMO, 95% perfect) the 24D is an absolutely wonderful interface. The sound of the preamps are top notch and that is evident in the playback! Beautiful sound! Much warmer and in your face than my old Echo Darla 24 PCI. I love all the features and built in DSP. With a little driver work this thing will sell bigtime. I'm hoping this driver comes out soon. I only have a week left before I can take it back should a driver update not solve any of these issues. I hope it does, this is a great piece of equipment.

Tim

[Cmpsr]

Tim,

Glad your "somewhat" satisfied with the interface. I have a K24D sitting here in a box unopened. My firewire interface (an OEM ADS Pyro 64 PCI) arrived faulty from Amazon :mad:. For some reason, my computer wouldn't boot at all with the card installed.

Opted for the ADS Pyro retail version and a SIIG 3-port 1394 from Newegg. Until then, I'm grounded. Maybe TC will have the new driver or firmware set out by the time I get mine hooked up!

BTW, have you installed Cubase LE just to see what the interface is capable of outside of Sonar?

Jon

[timbos]

Originally posted by Cmpsr

BTW, have you installed Cubase LE just to see what the interface is capable of outside of Sonar?

Jon

No not yet. I just don't have much interest in it.

[Alndln2]

Originally posted by Anderton
As to using the K24D firewire port for other devices, Mike can give the "real" answer but my assumption is that's for chaining other K24D units. I think there's a reason why Firewire cards usually have multiple ports... Ok, were finding out there's a problem with his Seagate external FW/USB drive. I borrowod my friends FireBox in which you are able to chain devices and he can't do it with that either. I just thought I'd clarify that so others don't get the wrong impression.

[Anderton]

Thanks for the clarification, that's helpful info. I didn't think this was an issue unique to the K24D, and it really does seem you want different types of devices on different, dedicated Firewire ports.

[Fulcra]

Originally posted by Mike Martin
There are few things in Windows XP that need to be checked. If you have Windows XP Service Pack 2 installed, there is a bug that affects 1394 devices that needs to be manually patched.

I just want to make a note regarding MS KB885222 (http://support.microsoft.com/kb/885222) ... Read it :)

As Microsoft says "this problem occurs if you connect a 1394a or 1394b FireWire device to a 1394b port. This problem occurs because Windows XP SP2 changes 1394b ports to S100 speed when you upgrade (to XP SP2)."
For those who don't know, 1394b port is the new FireWire 800 interface (not FireWire 400/1394a).

Anyway, It is probably best to apply this patch to stay compatible even if you don't have a FireWire 800 card since I guess no harm will be done.

But be aware that if you put a new FireWire card in your computer after the patch you must manually edit your registry. Read about it in the link above. (maybe it's just to apply the patch again?)

This is the default in registry (without line break) were you can change SidSpeed value:
0 S100 speed
1 S200 speed
2 S400 speed (default value)
3 S400/S800 speed (Windows XP Service Pack 1 [SP1] value)

****

REGEDIT4

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Enum\P CI\**edit here\and here**\Device Parameters]
"SidSpeed"=dword:00000002

****

So does this patch really fix FireWire 800 problems in XP SP 2? No, no and no!!!

First of all this must be an old war between Apple and Microsoft. I believe I read that when Apple first came up with FireWire (http://developer.apple.com/hardwaredrivers/firewire/index.html) they charged a little license fee for every interface used. Do you think Microsoft was happy with that? Anyway I don't know if Apple still does that ...

The strange thing is that FireWire 800 worked without problem on XP SP1. Then it stopped working on XP2. One thing that happend was that a FireWire 800 dropped to S100 (SidSpeed). So now Microsoft had to come up with this patch probably only because their anti Apple FireWire trick also broke normal devices like video cameras.
After the patch FW 800 devices that uses asynchronous mode seems to work fine again at S800. But FW 800 devices which operate in isochronous mode only works at S400 and not S800 as they should.
Do you believe as me this looks like some childish, insolent and arrogant behaviour from Microsoft?

And do not just go and buy a FireWire 800 interface. Many of them are wrongly made cause of badly interpretation of the FW 800 spesifications. But it is the future ...

Hope my english is not to bad. And sorry if i am hijacking the tread. I am sincerely interested in TC Konnekt.

Edit: tried to make it moe readable

[Fulcra]

Mike, does Konnekt 24D and Konnekt 8 comply with IEEE 1394 section 4.2.2.7 regarding maximum inrush energy?

I ask this cause there seems to be problems with the new MacBook Pro 17" and bus power.

Take a look here (http://techbroadcasting.com/smf/index.php?topic=8.msg65;topicseen).

Edit:

"The 17-inch MacBook Pro includes fast-acting over-current protection, hence, FireWire devices that consume cable power must comply with IEEE 1394 section 4.2.2.7 regarding maximum inrush energy."

The 15.4-inch MacBook Pro seems not to have this problem. It does not include the fast-acting over-current protection.

On both machines using one FireWire port you get 14 watt bus power. Using both ports you only gets 7 watt power on each port.

I interpret it all like when a device on the FireWire port start up it draws more power in that moment than the protection system in the 17" allow.

Did I read somewhere that TC Konnekt needs 13 watt? Am I correct?

[Mike Martin]

Fulcra,

I've seen the thread on the Apple forum, its the first time I've read the one in the link you provided.

As for Konnekt's spec, I honestly don't know. I'm not an engineer but I've sent your question to our product manager in Denmark.

Based on what I've read, there are problems running most Firewire interfaces buss powered on a 17" Core 2 Duo Macbook Pro. From what I've read, Mackie, PreSonus, RME and Konnekt 24D are not working on buss power on the 17" Macbook Core 2 Duo. I've also read that many other Firewire devices aren't working either.

Note: Stephen Fortner with Keyboard Magazine did his review on an original 17" Macbook Pro, it ran buss powered. This problem seems to be just on the 17" Core 2 Duo's.

I'll see what I can find out.

[Mike Martin]

Originally posted by Fredsa
A question for Mike, I am also planning to ge a powercore compact nut I only have one firewire port on my laptop...will I be able to daisy chain the powercore throuogh the Konnekt?

Yes, I've done it with a PowerCore FW briefly. 1.03 is supposed to lower the CPU load a lot so it should work even better. I'll try to test it again today for you. This would be someone dependent on the type of Firewire chipset in your computer. For reference, my laptop is a Z60m Thinkpad (Lenovo) with a 2.0ghz Pentium M.

Also, some laptops have a PCMCIA slot that allows you to add a second firewire port. I've used an Adaptec card in the past.

-Mike Martin
TC|US

[Fredsa]

Well I am just back from the music store trying out the Konnekt with my laptop (dual2core 2.0, ti firewire chipset...), I loaded a song on Cubase SX3 and tried it with a latencu of 128 samples...no problem AT ALL in play back! Sounded wonderfull, however, I didnt have the opportunity to make any recordings..i wonder if play back is ok then would recording be fine too... I mean as far as comaptibility with my firewire chipset is concerned, I gues so!?


One thing I noticed what that when I clciked on NEar TC control to minmize it I heard a click....I have a ATI X1600 video card in my laptop (256 MB videomemomy), does that mean the video graphic will interfere with recording and play bacK some times?

Also I was not able to configure hthe Fabrik R (didnt try the C) as an external effects I had the send on 7-8 and return on 15-16 and when I inserted the effect on a channel it was no sound (I had the R as s-r in the set up page).

[Mike Martin]

Fredsa,
The Fabrik effects send and return on the same channels. For example if you are sending to Fabrik R (Reverb), then you'll want to monitor inputs 7-8 to hear the effect. Since you're using Cubase SX 3, use the external effects feature to set up the effects, this way you can easily use them as effect sends or inserts.

In regards to your video card, that shouldn't be a problem but I know in the upcoming 1.03 release they lowered the CPU load of the Control Panel (mixer) application by a great deal.

[Anderton]

Hope my english is not to bad. And sorry if i am hijacking the tread. I am sincerely interested in TC Konnekt.

Your English is fine, and information on the level you provided is always welcome! That's one of the great things about this review format, there's plenty of space for additional comments.

[openrivers]

i have just read an review in a german gear magazine about the 24d.
they very much liked its sound and the clean and quiet preamps.

but they experienced higher latency compared to similar firewire interfaces.

a general question:
is latency an subject improved by firmware or drivers? or is it an overall design question?

i think i will try the konnekt 8 for myself if it works for me.

[Mike Martin]

Latency comes from the driver performance. Right now it appears the 1.03 driver should release Monday (my fingers are crossed). On my Windows desktop I can now run it at 64 samples latency in Cubase SX3, Sonar 6 and Ableton Live 6.01.

This is a huge improvement over the previous driver.

I'll get a list of all of the 1.03 improvements posted here soon.

-Mike Martin
TC|US

[openrivers]

thank you.

sounds good.

i have recently checked my old m-audio delta 66 card with preamp box.

i have totally cranked up the gain of the preamps (66db on paper) and metered a noise floor of around -52db in cubase.

i dont know if this is a really cool preamp noise floor test :-) but i wonder what the konnekt 8 would say in this test.

i am thinking about getting a pair of ribbon mics and because of this its really important how "noisy" the preamps are when cranked up.

[Mike Martin]

Alndln2, please check your PM's.

(sorry to hijack)

[Cmpsr]

Well after my firewire card fiasco, I finally got my K24D up and running with Sonar 6.01... semi-successfully. The D/A converters make all my softsynths and sample sets sound great through my Blue Skys... very nice. And I can play my existing setups from start to finish with no problems.

However when trying to patch a Kontakt instrument through to FabrikC, a horrible noise occurs and (here's where I hope I'm not alone).. hitting the playback button makes the cursor zoom across the timeline playing jibberish as it goes... not impressive TC!

Anyway, I hope the new drivers take care of it. They probably will.

[scadh]

Craig,

Since you've been working so heavy with both the Konnekt 24D and Sonar 6 Producer, I was hoping you could take just a moment to offer some thoughts on the relative quality of these two channel strips, the Fabrik C and the VC-64. I already own Sonar 6 Producer and love the VC-64. Unless the Fabrik is so vastly superior that I have no choice but to go for it, I think I am probably going to settle for the Konnekt 8 without the onboard DSP. I don't need the additional I/O and would like to save money if I can. I'm sure none of the Sonitus 'verbs can touch Fabrik R, but if you think VC-64 is of comparable quality to Fabrik C I will probably save the $200 and get the Konnekt 8 instead of the 24D.

Thoughts anyone?

Steve

[Anderton]

Latency comes from the driver performance.

Mike, I think that is the differentiating factor between different units running in the same environment. But processor speed has a lot to do with it; while running tests with Guitar Rig, I noticed that latency was lowest on a Core 2 Duo, next best on a Athlon dual core, and highest on a Pentium IV, using the same interface, drivers, and software environment. Bottom line is no matter how good the drivers are, you can't take full advantage of them without a fast processor.

[Anderton]

Originally posted by scadh
Craig,

Since you've been working so heavy with both the Konnekt 24D and Sonar 6 Producer, I was hoping you could take just a moment to offer some thoughts on the relative quality of these two channel strips, the Fabrik C and the VC-64. I already own Sonar 6 Producer and love the VC-64. Unless the Fabrik is so vastly superior that I have no choice but to go for it, I think I am probably going to settle for the Konnekt 8 without the onboard DSP. I don't need the additional I/O and would like to save money if I can. I'm sure none of the Sonitus 'verbs can touch Fabrik R, but if you think VC-64 is of comparable quality to Fabrik C I will probably save the $200 and get the Konnekt 8 instead of the 24D.

I feel that neither the Sonitus nor the Pantheon verbs can equal the Fabrik R. However, S6's Pefect Space convolution reverb can give extremely realistic reverb sounds. Bear in mind that convolution reverb is to algorithm reverb as samplers are to synths, so the sonic qualities are rather different; it won't do what the Fabrik R can do, but the Fabrik R can't do what Perfect Space does, either.

As to the VC-64, that is a very special signal processor, and I can understand why you say you love it. The Fabrik C is more transparent and what I would describe as "accurate," while the VC-64 is more of a "character"-oriented processor that aims for more vintage sounds. If you love what the VC-64 does, that's not what the Fabrik C is about. But if every now and then you wish you could get a really clean, precise sound, that's what the Fabrik C does best.

We'll get into the Fabrik C more in a bit, I've gotten a bit sidetracked by the whole driver thing :) One thing to remember is that with the zero-latency monitoring and ability to put the Fabrik R and C in the recording signal path, you can record, say, vocals with reverb, EQ, and compression while monitoring without any latency, and record the processed signal to your host along with the straight one (just in case you change you mind later and decide that maybe you needed less compression). That's something you can't do in Sonar, as the only way you'll hear the plug-ins is with some latency, and to record with the plug-ins, you would need to render the clip.

[FJHaydn]

I bought a Konnekt 8 yesterday. As my brandnew macbook is to come later this week I installed the Konnekt on my WindoxsXP desktop. I've trying things for hours, but I just can't get auto monitoring working. In other words: I get absolutely no output on the phones when plugging in a mike nor when recording in Cubase. The monitor level in the control panel ("total mix") doesn't move on input at all. In Cubase, monitoring only works when I change to ASIO Multimedia driver, however, there's about a second of latency.


Collective wisdom, I am a total newbie to audio interfaces, what am I doing wrong?

[Fredsa]

Reading so much about firewire issues..would a Carbus interface be more reliable thank Konnekt in terms of compatibility problems?

[Mike Martin]

Originally posted by FJHaydn
I bought a Konnekt 8 yesterday. As my brandnew macbook is to come later this week I installed the Konnekt on my WindoxsXP desktop. I've trying things for hours, but I just can't get auto monitoring working. In other words: I get absolutely no output on the phones when plugging in a mike nor when recording in Cubase. The monitor level in the control panel ("total mix") doesn't move on input at all. In Cubase, monitoring only works when I change to ASIO Multimedia driver, however, there's about a second of latency.


Collective wisdom, I am a total newbie to audio interfaces, what am I doing wrong?

This is a known bug with Konnekt 8 (posted earlier in the thread), and will be fixed with the update on Monday. If you like send me a PM and I'll try to email you the update.

[Cmpsr]

Mike or Craig,

Concerning Sonar 6, have you encountered any problems with timeline acceleration? After a few minutes with the K24D, pressing the playback button causes the vertical cursor to move rapidly across the screen playing noise as it goes. Hope I'm not alone here.

Thanks for any help,
Jon

V: 1.0.2 f128

[Anderton]

Yes, this is one of the problems I found. However, it seems 1.03 fixes a bunch o' stuff...I'm anxious to try it out and see if this is one of the things that gets fixed. Mike is having good results with the beta version of 1.03 and Sonar 6.

[Cmpsr]

Thanks Craig for the info,

Real quick concerning the Fabrik R in stand-alone mode... is the main-mix "return level" knob used to adjust the outgoing reverb signal to the speakers? I can't hear anything, and no signal appears to be routing through the Fabrik R panel. All mutes are off and the light ring knob (when assigned) has no effect either.

Thanks.. I know this is more of a support question but you at least have been able to "hear" the reverbs! :)

Jon

[Mike Martin]

Cmpsr,
Do a quick reset (on the about page). Make sure that Fabrik R is set to "internal mode" if thats the way you're intending on using it.

[Cmpsr]

Thanks Mike for responding... on a Sunday even.

I tried to reset the interface and nothing changed. It's just not sending any signal to the Fabrik R. I'll wait for the 1.03 update but at this point, I may have to return it. Hopefully not... the converters and pres are killer!

Jon

XP SP2
AMD X2 4800+ CPU
Gigabyte K8U-939 MB
2GB OCZ Ram

[Anderton]

Looking at the graphic when you first mentioned the problem...if you're coming in through 3/4, have you tried turning up the send control? It appears to be all the way down in the graphic.

[Cmpsr]

Hi Craig,

Actually I'm not routing an instrument through the interface... if that's what you mean? I'm running in stand-alone "internal" mode until the new update is released.

As my source, I'm using a sampled piano through a stand-alone version of Kontakt 2. Its output shows on both the "DAW Main" and "Main-Mix" faders and it sounds very good. However turning the "Fabrik R return level" knob all the way up or down doesn't bring up any reverb. Keep in mind, I'm assuming this is how it works?

Also, notice in the first .jpg that even with the Fabrik R icon showing "on", the horizontal meters aren't responding either. The same thing occurs in the Fabrik R panel... no input or output. I don't think this is normal.

Jon

[Cmpsr]

Here's a new updated .jpg.

Craig I apologize for somewhat hijacking your review with this. I really like this interface and would be willing to get a replacement if I knew these problems were due to a defective unit, and of course the Sonar issues were taken care of...

Jon

[barbaroja]

Hi all, great review. Very good, Craig!

I´m about buying an interface cause the onboard sound in my gigabyte DS3 is crap. I use FL Studio mainly.

So, I was about buying the konnekt 8 but then i noticed E-MU launched a 0404 USB 2.0 interface. It´s significantly cheaper (U$200), has nice stats (in paper), and the USB 2.0 port should work faster (but stable???) than 1394a. Also, I would not have to buy a FW PCI adapter. I am a fan of good quality, as I believe TC Electronic products are.

A really good thing about the E-MU one is the dedicated hedadphone knob. But in essence, it offers the same goodies as the Konnekt 8. The major concern here sould be sound quality.

I mailed TC asking for help, but it looks like TC support team cant talk nor good or bad things about the competition, which i think its pretty fair. E-MU people just mailed me a web link to the specs of their product.

As for drivers, I do not think it is a big concern, both are great companies and driver issues should be addressed in no time.
Please, anyone that can compare critically these two (Preamps an AD/DA), would be VERY nice...

Thanks, and sorry for the English!!!...

[polipolirecords]

I want to again say thank you to Craig and Mike. I am very pleased with the 24D. I ordered the digimax FS so that I can have the addition inputs when needed. I wish I could turn up the line inputs on 3+4 but this thing sounds so good, I'm over it.

I wanted to let other Logic users know that currently "AU version of Assimilator Konnekt are not yet Intel Mac compatible". I can't wait to try it out. I have been so blown away with the quality of this interface, I'm coming from a Tascam 122, motu 828 and Presonus Firepod background. I don't have great ears but I can totally hear the difference in quality.

Mike is there going to be a driver update for the intel Mac's or is 1.03 just for PC's. Tell the folks who built this WAY TO GO! I had everything up and running in Logic in minutes. The first tracks I recorded with the new Studio Projects C3 shocked me, I finally understand what everyone has meant by the term "transparent" WOW!

[Mike Martin]

Originally posted by Cmpsr
Actually I'm not routing an instrument through the interface... if that's what you mean? I'm running in stand-alone "internal" mode until the new update is released.

As my source, I'm using a sampled piano through a stand-alone version of Kontakt 2. Its output shows on both the "DAW Main" and "Main-Mix" faders and it sounds very good. However turning the "Fabrik R return level" knob all the way up or down doesn't bring up any reverb. Keep in mind, I'm assuming this is how it works?

Jon,
Based on what you're describing there is nothing defective with the unit itself. I'll try to put together a short tutorial on using the effects from a DAW. I think you're just missing a step. ;)

[Cmpsr]

Well I hope you're right... looking forward to your tutorial.

Jon

[Mike Martin]

The Setup page of the Control Panel is where you can determine how the effects in Konnekt 24D can be used. Under “DSP Effects Settings” there are two routing choices; Internal Mode (for use while tracking) and Send/Return Mode (for use during Mixdown). These selections are also found on the Fabrik pages themselves on software version 1.02 and higher.

In other words if you want to add effects to a signal that is physically plugged into the Konnekt (a microphone or guitar), set the effects to Internal Mode. If you source is the computer, then you need to be in Send/Return Mode.

Jon, in your case the effects are coming from software. So the effects send and Fabrik R knobs shouldn't be used in this application. I'll have more on the subject in a little while...

[Mike Martin]

Craig has described this earlier, but here is a quick review.

While each piece of software is different the concept is the same on each one. One thing to keep in mind is that Konnekt effects live outside of your computer in the Konnekt interface itself. Signal must be sent from the DAW to the Konnekt interface and returned to another audio track. Audio sent to Konnekt outputs 5 and 6, will go to Fabrik C while outputs 7 and 8 will go to the Fabrik R reverb. Monitoring inputs 5-8 will allow you to hear the processed signal. It’s also possible to have multiple tracks each with different send levels sharing this same reverb effect.

Jon,
Your situation; wanting to use a softsynth outside a DAW lives a little outside the way Konnekt was designed to work. This is because most softsynths don't have a way to monitor incoming audio (the return of the effects). I suspect you're running your softsynth in stand alone mode because of the issue with Sonar. I believe this will be addressed in the 1.03 update.

If you want to use a synth in stand alone mode, outside a DAW, there is a solution for you that works. You just have to think "outside the box". Hang on for more info....

-Mike Martin
TC|US

[Really!]

Mike,

Do you know if TC is going to release a unit that will have more inputs with preamps (like 8 or 10)?

Thanks,

Really!

[Mike Martin]

So as I said my last post, the Fabrik effects are designed to work either on a physical input, or as a send/return from a DAW. True VST integration of these effects is something that is planned for the future (no, please don't ask, I don't know exactly when).

Jon raised the question on how to use the effects from a stand alone soft synth application.

- - - -
Breaking news - post edited here
- - - - -

I just had to make some major changes to this post. In 1.03 they added a SEND knob to the DAW MAIN. That means anything comine to the 1-2 outputs can go to the Fabrik R reverb. Perfect for stand alone synths!!

- - - - -
Jon, if you can't wait until tomorrow.... one way you could hear the Fabrik R effects from your stand alone synth is to physically take a cable and connect the S/PDIF digital out to the S/PDIF digital in. Set your soft synth to use the SPDIF outputs instead of the main outs. After setting the clock to external (SPDIF), you should be able to hear your softsynth. Then turn up the send knob on the S/PDIF channel to route that signal to the Fabrik R. None of this is neccessary in 1.03




Mike Martin
TC|US

[Mike Martin]

Originally posted by Really!
Mike,

Do you know if TC is going to release a unit that will have more inputs with preamps (like 8 or 10)?

Thanks,

Really!

Thats a great idea, but I couldn't comment on that right now. For now a Konnekt 24D and a product like a Digimax FS makes a great combination!

[al_dente_audio]

hello forum, and thanks to craig and mike for the work.
I am one of the mac book pro / konnekt 8 users that are affected by the firewire bus power issue.
Unfortunately it's not true that this only affects 17" mbps, that was the case with core duo models, but since apple introduced the core 2 duo mac book pros, the 15" models won't bus power the konnekts either.
Is there a solution on the way with the upcoming driver/firmware release?
Or will I have to get used to the power supply, that I didn't even plan to unpack when I received my konnekt.

thanks,
al

[Cmpsr]

Originally posted by Mike Martin
I just had to make some major changes to this post. In 1.03 they added a SEND knob to the DAW MAIN. That means anything comine to the 1-2 outputs can go to the Fabrik R reverb. Perfect for stand alone synths!!

Nice! That's terrific Mike... looks like the company is really working to make this a great product. Thanks for your help. I'm glad my unit doesn't appear to be defective. Do you expect the 1.03 update sometime this week? I can wait! :thu:

Jon

[Anderton]

Mike was kind enough to shoot me the 1.03 beta, and I found out that it's actually the same as the version that will be available starting in the next day or two. So I eagerly installed it, and...and...

Sonar is now running at 128 samples -- reliably, with a fair amount of tracks and plug-ins. I haven't seen how hard I can push it (although I'm pushing it pretty hard) but the difference with the previous driver and v1.03 is night and day.

I've been able to get sorta reliable results with 64 samples and Sonar, too. It's not rock solid, but for projects with a lesser number of tracks, it's been working okay. Needless to say, it will run all day at 256 samples with just about anything you want to throw at it.

This is all ASIO, by the way. I haven't tried WDM, I was just so jazzed by the improvement I had to post something ASAP! I'll be giving the torture test over the next few days, but to say this is encouraging is an understatement.

[Anderton]

Okay, I figured I'd try WDM...

2.4 ms effective latency running at 64 samples! It still seems like 64 samples is running close to the edge, but it's performing better than most of my other interfaces at 64 samples.

This update is looking better all the time!! :)

[Anderton]

Hey Mike, hope it's okay if I post this...you didn't tell me not to :)

New stuff:

- Shortcut keys for TABS: Mixer = ‘M’ (or ‘1’), Setup = ‘S’ (or ‘2’), Fabrik C = C (or ‘3’), Fabrik R = R (or ‘4’), About = A (or ‘5’), System Settings = ctrl+’S’
- Tooltip texts now include shortcut keys
- Tooltips for device-tabs: <Nickname> '['ctrl-<number>']' - [This device is Clock Master]
- Shortcut ctrl-M for monitor mix on/off
- Auto check for new firmware. Checks if a new version of the firmware is present but not uploaded to the device. If so, the user is directed to the about-page
- Tooltips for analog stereo link buttons on setup-page
- Dynamic tooltip on System Settings::Clock - it changes with sample rate
- Analog state for channel 1+2 in setup-page: phantom-power and warning (press inst-button).
- Stereo-link for channel 3+4
- Stereo-link for digital channels - including channel names and icons
- Send-knob on DAW channel
- Naming and icons for channel 3+4 in mixer

Other improvements:

- Digital lock status on DAW/Linked updated
- More reliable feedback on (no)lock, no-ref and slip on Setup page
- More reliable implementation of master/no-sync indication on tabs
- More reliable feedback on Sync and current sample rate on System Settings page
- NoDevice message similar on Mac and PC
- Sizing of window in AUTO SIZE mode, now also based on number of top level tabs as well as content components (needed when working with more devices)
- Editied colors of standard buttons (brighter background) and labels to match
- Edited texts for sync source, digital in, and shortcut tooltips
- Nicer text formatting in the ResetToDefault dialogue
- Digital Audio Workstation acronym spelled with capital letters DAW in source menus
- Better UI performance on plug-ins. Memory status updated
- Upload firmware progress bar widened and text changed: "Programming flash" -> "Do not turn off device!"
- To avoid version numbering confusion, the build number of package no longer sent to check-for-update server
- more improved tooltips on individual channel inputs, SETUP, digital inputs and System Settings Sync Source
- Massive optimization of the Fabrik-pages:
* Faster response of the header of the page
* A lot fewer page-updates => increased speed, and less flickering
* No disturbing quick reordering of Fabrik content => less flickering
- Firmware-upload made more stable, when device offers firmware-uploader version 1.01>
* Reporting of accepted size of binary
* Checksum correctly calculated on-the-fly, even if some packages fails, and thus must be sent again
* Exception handling based on the runtime errors regarding firmware-uploading. Exceptions are handled and communicated to user
- Minimizing AllwaysOnTop option enabled again
- Warning indicators on Master device tab and System Settings, when system has no lock
- CPL no longer switches to mixer page on preset-selection
- SampleSlipPoller completely reworked:
* Time based instead of thread
* SlipStatus communicated elegantly
* Implemented as pseudo-state, communicating changes directly to relevant channels
* Stopped and started according to need from ResetToDefault and FirmwareUpload
* Great performance increase!

Bug fixes:
- Graphical issues corrected
- Fabrik C reduction meter icon and Fabrik R icon in MIXER tab now work as expected
- Setup::Output UI no longer loops back and forth between formats
- Dashed line on channels between SEND and PAN/BALANCE are once again drawn
- MAC: AllwaysOnTop disabled due to disappearing Fabrik-windows
- Right-click+close in windows taskbar now closes CPL as expected
- Signal from linked device is no longer missing
- Fabriks set values in Konnekt, even when they are muted/bypassed
- Linked channels in mixer now shows the correct "mother-device" icons
- No monitoring on Konnekt8 ch1 and ch2, fixed
- Fabrik page no longer missing when switching Fabrik C channel
- Font for message "DirMon N/A in 192/176 kHz mode" edited to match small windows

[Anderton]

Okay, I just loaded a very stressful Sonar project. It's one I'm using to develop my next sample CD; this project is doing multiband distortion using three WAVES GTR stereo amps, three sets of WAVES stomp pedals, some reference drum tracks I'm playing against, several tracks of premixes, and a few more tracks doing AudioSnap tricks. This is pretty heavy, CPU-wise, and at 128 samples it's all working like a champ.

Nice! Thanks for sending me the software, Mike!! Now everyone with a Konnekt 24D can be jealous of me for a few hours :) :)

[Bob Walker]

Craig,

After spending many hours last weekend reading through both the Onyx 400f and Onyx Satellite threads :eek:, and now reading through this one, I want to first say a big thanks for your efforts. These Pro Reviews are simply awesome!

I'd also like to thank Mike Martin and the folks over at T.C. - I've always drooled over many of their products, but I'm even more convinced now that they are the kind of company I wish to purchase from.

So, far this Konnekt 24D looks to be exactly what I have been after.

I look forward to the final conclusions and baring any major issues, I'll be getting one in the coming weeks.

Again, thanks for all your efforts here on HC.

Regards.

[timbos]

Update:


Even after the 1.03 driver I still couldn't get Konnekt to operate flawlessly on my system so to my great sorrow I wound up returning it and purchased a Digidesign Mbox2 Pro Bundle.
I have it running on the same 10 track project with half a dozen plugins or so using Sonar like I did with the Konnekt and it performs perfect at only about 42% cpu usage and hardly any noticeable latency. Right now I'm learning Pro Tools LE so once my Sonar project is done I'll start using it as my sequencer software.

I sure won't bash the Konnekt 24D or their customer service because I think they did everything they could to help me. And in my opinion, the hardware and sound of the preamps are fantastic. I'm sad I couldn't get it to work for me.

This is a great forum and I just want to thank everyone that did what they could to help me out.

Tim

[Cmpsr]

Originally posted by timbos
Even after the 1.03 driver I still couldn't get Konnekt to operate flawlessly on my system

Tim,

Can I ask what problems you ran into?

Thanks,
Jon

[Mike Martin]

Originally posted by Anderton
Okay, I just loaded a very stressful Sonar project. It's one I'm using to develop my next sample CD; this project is doing multiband distortion using three WAVES GTR stereo amps, three sets of WAVES stomp pedals, some reference drum tracks I'm playing against, several tracks of premixes, and a few more tracks doing AudioSnap tricks. This is pretty heavy, CPU-wise, and at 128 samples it's all working like a champ.

Nice! Thanks for sending me the software, Mike!! Now everyone with a Konnekt 24D can be jealous of me for a few hours :) :)

Craig,
Thats great news. 1.03 is posted on the website so everyone can download it now.

TC Near Driver Version 1.03 (http://www.tcelectronic.com/default.asp?Id=7477&AjrDcmntId=6310)

[Mike Martin]

Originally posted by timbos
I sure won't bash the Konnekt 24D or their customer service because I think they did everything they could to help me. And in my opinion, the hardware and sound of the preamps are fantastic. I'm sad I couldn't get it to work for me.

Sorry that things didn't work out Tim. I was convinced (and still am) that we could get things working.

One word of advice for anyone experiencing problems. PLEASE, PLEASE go to the TC Electronic website and fill our a support claim. There are people with much more time than me (and more experience too) available to help. This also helps our staff create FAQ's and solve any outstanding issues.

Here is the link Contact TC Support (http://tcsupport.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/tcsupport.cfg/php/enduser/ask.php)

-Mike Martin
TC|US

[Mike Martin]

Originally posted by Anderton
Okay, I figured I'd try WDM...

2.4 ms effective latency running at 64 samples! It still seems like 64 samples is running close to the edge, but it's performing better than most of my other interfaces at 64 samples.

This update is looking better all the time!! :)

Fantastic. I honest didn't spend much time with WDM myself but thats great to hear! I assume your 2.4ms figure is "round trip"?

BTW: In future releases they will likely add more choices in the buffer size like 96 samples.

[timbos]

Originally posted by Cmpsr
Tim,

Can I ask what problems you ran into?

Thanks,
Jon

Well it was strange. Under 1.03, when selecting the WDM driver in Sonar 6 I would get great playback on my 10 track project. But then if I armed a track for recording, selected echo monitoring and spoke into the mic it was terribly distorted. Then I changed from the WDM driver to the ASIO driver in Sonar. I would then get stuttered playback, pops and clicks. But when I armed a track and selected echo monitoring and spoke into the mic the sound was pristine and no distortion.

Seems my system and Konnekt just didn't get along. But my system got along perfect with my Echo Audio Layla 24bit PCI card/breakout box unit that I used for years. And my system gets along fine with the new Mbox2 Pro even in Sonar 6 utilizing the ASIO drivers. I don't get it. But when your talking PC's, especially customs, it's really not fair to focus the blame totally on either.

I sure was heartbroken having to return the Konnekt. I really wanted to make it work. At least my experience with TC customer service was top notch. In my book, that means everything.